Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Sorry, I know this is pretty long but I really, really need help.

I finally came out to my parents the other day. My mother sort of forced it out of me as I was talking to her on the phone. I had been away for a few days to go on job interviews and when I got home, the entire family attacked me.

They can't seem to grasp the concept of what it means to be transgender so they've resorted to saying that I'm gay because they found out that I was visiting my girlfriend who lives in the area where I was job searching.

My mother is an ultra religious Christian and my dad is very bigoted so being gay is a "disgusting sin" to them. I tried to explain to them that it's not wrong to be gay but that I'm not technically gay anyway since I feel that I'm a man in a woman's body. That only made them more outraged though because "god doesn't make mistakes". At one point my dad even screamed at me to "look down between your damn legs, you're not a man" and he and my mother both agreed that they would rather have had me become a prostitute and come home pregnant than have spent time with my girlfriend (even though nothing happened).

I'm not sure how to deal with them. I know they've abused me in the past but I still love them, especially my mother. I thought that at least she would understand me but she has a childlike faith and there's no reasoning with her. It's heartbreaking to know that I'm hurting her so much over this. I tried to tell her that I'm not a mistake, that god made me this way for some reason but she wasn't having it. Her and my dad told me that being transgender or gay is not only a sin but also a communist conspiracy used to warp peoples' minds and turn them away from god. That should give you an idea of the type of craziness and naïveté I'm dealing with here.

My mother is making herself sick over this and my dad has been threatening to kill himself. I feel like I destroyed my family.

They keep telling me to either cut off all contact with my girlfriend or leave home and never come back because they don't want to have anything to do with me anymore. I chose to leave but I can't because my dad has already threatened to take my car away or report it stolen if I try to since it's registered in his name. He's also threatened to smash my computer so that means I won't be able to find help. I'm stuck and don't know how to get out of this mess. My girlfriend's family doesn't have a car right now or else they would come to get me.

My dad did say he and my mother would see a gender therapist with me to try to "fix" me but I'm not sure how long it will take to find a decent therapist and make an appointment. I'm afraid my dad will start getting physically violent with me since he's physically abused my mother, my sisters and me in the past. I'm hoping that a gender therapist will be able to reason with them because they may listen to a professional but if things get worse I might just make a run for it to my girlfriend's house even though she lives hours away. Until then, I think I'll try to get them in to a therapist's office.

Are there any Christian gender therapists out there who might be able to reason with my mother? I don't want her hurting because she thinks that I'm some kind of evil sinner who's going to hell. I live in the Pittsburgh PA area and I've looked for some kind of Christian therapist who deals with transgender issuse but I can't find any.

For now I've decided to stop engaging them since it's impossible to talk with them sensibly. Is there anything I can do other than just leaving? I don't want to leave my family in this turmoil whether they deserve it or not.

 Rember you will have to make the choice in the end. All we can do is help you make it.
Truthfully  I  think your mom does support you I think she's just afraid to go aginst your father.
One reason I see for you to stay is to be a great big brother and protect your sister from getting beat. Outerwise why put your self through that much stress
Ok lets put it this way would you rather go live with your girlfriend and be the man you are and be happy  or stay at home and possible have to pretend your a women and be sad

wow. thats really extreme. im sorry, is there anywhere you can go stay to be away from them?

Big hug! There's a lot you could do other than leave, but really, why? Hanging around people who don't accept you isn't going to help you grow and thrive. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Contravene on June 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
My mother is making herself sick over this and my dad has been threatening to kill himself. I feel like I destroyed my family.

It's important to keep in mind that this is not your fault, and it's completely on your parents.  They are reacting to the extreme, buy by reacting this way they are only hurting themselves.

Don't feel responsible for their actions.

if transportation is the only thing keeping you from leaving, there are absolutely options for you. have you considered taking a bus to where your girlfriend lives? there are plenty of affordable public transportation options. If you need to talk to someone about transportation logistics but don't want to go into super-thorough detail about you/your girlfriend's locations in such a public place, feel free to drop me a PM. A couple years ago, I moved 800 miles via MegaBus to get out of a less dire but still unhealthy family/location situation.

Also, whatever you do, don't feel like you are abandoning your family by leaving. sometimes things like this are best sorted out with some time and distance, especially when there is a history of abuse. A big part of abuse comes from rash reactions and people not thinking things through. Time and distance can do a lot to prevent that.

I know it's a crazy situation and it seems unsolvable right now, but you'll get through it!

Unfortunately you are in the midst of a very toxic and potentially dangerous situation. You are having emotionally manipulative techniques used on you by both parents and there is a possibility of violence against you by your father who you admit has a history of familial violence. You need to move away and put some time and space between you and your family without letting guilt feelings overtake you. I had to put my mom and my sister on the back burner for ten years. I didn't see or speak to them during that time until they changed their attitudes. You have the right to be who and what you perceive yourself to be and it's none of their business. Sounds cold, but that's how you have to deal with it for your own good. ((Hugs))

I would stop trying to talk to them about it and do everything you can to get out on your own as soon as possible.  Meaning - sit tight and do what you need to leave ASAP - get a job if you don't have one all ready and save money, etc.  I have no idea how possible that is for you, but you have to make it work. Time to move on from your family - for your health, safety, and quality of life.

You can't argue or convert their level of ignorance and hatred - not at the same time you are battling them to accept you simultaneously (in their minds) as having a girlfriend and being transgender.  The most open minded parents have trouble with this - it is 10000000x worse with parents who believe what yours do.

If you drop it completely (in front of them only of course) and just act like you're moving out because you're an adult and want your own space, you might even get to keep your car.  It will probably be a bit of time before you can move out safely, right?  That time will be a buffer to dissipate the threats of him reporting it stolen. Maybe. Tread carefully with this one, of course.  Don't let that car be your leash.

When they talk to you about any of it, just be civil and smile and say you are putting it on hold for awhile while you sort yourself out.  Which is completely true. You are putting it on hold with them, not with yourself.

They want you to go see a gender therapist that will talk you out of it, not work out your feelings.

Leaving home doesn't mean abandoning your Mother. It means giving yourself some space from them, and them space from you. Eventually, time will help you work out these problems with them.  But honestly - that is not going to happen while you live with them. It will take years most likely.

You need a backup plan at all times to leave the instant any violence or threats of violence appears - like other people have said, get bus passes, stash some cash - keep a bag ready.

TLDR - you have to stop talking about this with them or the stress levels in your home will eat you up and ruin your life as long as you live there.  Act like you are putting it on hold.  Be as nice as possible and do not create friction. Pander to them, and then leave ASAP.

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, everyone.

Unfortunately I don't have anywhere to go that's closer to home but I can always get away to my girlfriend's house if I need to so that might answer your question Tristan.  :-\ I really don't mind driving the couple hours to her house though and it might even be better that she's so far away because the distance would deter my parents from coming after me if I did need to stay with her.

Things seem to have calmed down a little but I have a bag packed and some cash ready to go just in case. I've been keeping my distance from my family members as much as possible and haven't been engaging them in any conversation so that's helped a little too. Occasionally my mother will ask to talk to me but it only breaks down into her yelling at me and me calmly listening to it then walking away. I haven't talked to my dad at all yet and don't plan to if I can help it.

As far as the whole therapy thing goes, Spacerace, you were right. They had agreed to let me choose a therapist but now my mother is insisting that I see a Christian counselor instead who obviously will support her strict religious views rather than helping her understand everything from a neutral, psychological standpoint. I'm not really sure how to deal with that problem yet but I guess I'll deal with it when the time comes. For now I've let them know that I've put everything on hold like you suggested. I don't have a job yet but I've been working really hard to find one and even have a few intervews again tomorrow so getting a job is my priority right now and everything else is on the backburner. It will take a bit of time before I can move out safely but hopefully not too much longer.

Like everyone else suggested I won't be staying here for long, it's just not worth it. I've taken abuse for and from all of them, I'm tired of being their whipping boy and scapegoat. I wouldn't be surprised if they just don't want me to leave because when I do they'll finally have to confront each other and their own problems rather than just taking it all out on me. Distance will definitely be good for everyone and it's about time I left anyway.

That sounds really rough Contravene  :( *bear hug*

I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a difficult time with your family.  I know you are probably feeling guilty about breaking up your family and upsetting your mom... but please remember that they are the ones making the ultimatums and telling you to join them in their vision of righteousness or get out and never come back.  Even if you tried to change to please them and keep the family together, it doesn't sound like they will ever accept you.

As to what to do...  I'd recommend talking to the folks at the Pittsburgh Gay and Lesbian Community center.   
http://www.glccpgh.org/ (http://www.glccpgh.org/)  or  Phone: 412.422.0114
Tell them exactly what you've told us here about your situation.  They should have the skinny on available programs and youth and women's shelters in your area, (if you need one).    If transportation is the only thing stopping you, they may be able to help there as well.

I'd also recommend checking out your local YMCA and YWCA.  I'm not familiar with the ones in your area, but many of them have temporary housing options and programs to help you find work and establish yourself. 

Of course, if you are under 18 everything is a bit more complicated. 
If you are really in a bind, check out the National Domestic Violence Hotline at  http://www.thehotline.org/ (http://www.thehotline.org/)
Good info and links to local help.

+1 to SunKat's advice. You never know whether there's some place in your area where you could stay that might be safer for you.

I'd also recommend running like Forrest Gump. Particularly from that 'Christian counsellor', who as you so rightly said is likely to just try to browbeat you about what a massive 'sinner' you are. I'd imagine they're likely to try to 'pray away the gay', and that's not what you need in your life.

You're doing the right thing: keep your head down, save up, and get the heck out of Dodge as soon as humanly possible.

Stay safe.

I'm so saddeneds when I hear about situations like yours. As a parent I could never imagine treating my child like that. I'm sorry that you are going through this and you don't deserve to be treated this way. I think that people here have given you some good advise. Just do you best to keep yourself safe. I hope things workout you seem like a bright kid and things will get better. Your parents are ignorant and abusive so getting away from them is key.

Please let us know how you doing.

Rea

Quote from: Contravene on June 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
Sorry, I know this is pretty long but I really, really need help.

I finally came out to my parents the other day. My mother sort of forced it out of me as I was talking to her on the phone. I had been away for a few days to go on job interviews and when I got home, the entire family attacked me.

They can't seem to grasp the concept of what it means to be transgender so they've resorted to saying that I'm gay because they found out that I was visiting my girlfriend who lives in the area where I was job searching.

My mother is an ultra religious Christian and my dad is very bigoted so being gay is a "disgusting sin" to them. I tried to explain to them that it's not wrong to be gay but that I'm not technically gay anyway since I feel that I'm a man in a woman's body. That only made them more outraged though because "god doesn't make mistakes". At one point my dad even screamed at me to "look down between your damn legs, you're not a man" and he and my mother both agreed that they would rather have had me become a prostitute and come home pregnant than have spent time with my girlfriend (even though nothing happened).

I'm not sure how to deal with them. I know they've abused me in the past but I still love them, especially my mother. I thought that at least she would understand me but she has a childlike faith and there's no reasoning with her. It's heartbreaking to know that I'm hurting her so much over this. I tried to tell her that I'm not a mistake, that god made me this way for some reason but she wasn't having it. Her and my dad told me that being transgender or gay is not only a sin but also a communist conspiracy used to warp peoples' minds and turn them away from god. That should give you an idea of the type of craziness and naïveté I'm dealing with here.

My mother is making herself sick over this and my dad has been threatening to kill himself. I feel like I destroyed my family.

They keep telling me to either cut off all contact with my girlfriend or leave home and never come back because they don't want to have anything to do with me anymore. I chose to leave but I can't because my dad has already threatened to take my car away or report it stolen if I try to since it's registered in his name. He's also threatened to smash my computer so that means I won't be able to find help. I'm stuck and don't know how to get out of this mess. My girlfriend's family doesn't have a car right now or else they would come to get me.

My dad did say he and my mother would see a gender therapist with me to try to "fix" me but I'm not sure how long it will take to find a decent therapist and make an appointment. I'm afraid my dad will start getting physically violent with me since he's physically abused my mother, my sisters and me in the past. I'm hoping that a gender therapist will be able to reason with them because they may listen to a professional but if things get worse I might just make a run for it to my girlfriend's house even though she lives hours away. Until then, I think I'll try to get them in to a therapist's office.

Are there any Christian gender therapists out there who might be able to reason with my mother? I don't want her hurting because she thinks that I'm some kind of evil sinner who's going to hell. I live in the Pittsburgh PA area and I've looked for some kind of Christian therapist who deals with transgender issuse but I can't find any.

For now I've decided to stop engaging them since it's impossible to talk with them sensibly. Is there anything I can do other than just leaving? I don't want to leave my family in this turmoil whether they deserve it or not.

Hi there Contravene,

I'm sitting here with sadness on my face as I type.  Your story is heartbreaking.  I'm so, so very sorry for your pain.  I understand.  My mother, a hyper-religious woman from a Greek village, where my great aunt was removed from the earth for sexual contact with a priest when she was 19 and in the prime of her life.  My mother came with all that village shame in her, and so, when her son came out as gay--you guessed the rest.

It took her ten years to figure it all out.  She did, eventually, and over that decade, many wounds on my heart, which I do not talk with her about.  Hers was a 'biotheological' theory "God punished me for wanting a girl as my second child" she roared at me, with a vein popping out of her neck, that I can still see to this day "and so he flooded my uterus with female hormones".

I can laugh about that story--sometimes--but sometimes I still can't.

Can you 'do' anything?  I'm very cautious here.  I'm not sure I have the wisdom to intrude on another's life and 'be prescriptive' with direction or directives.  My heart tells me to just show you kindness.  And then you'll figure this all out yourself, in time.  I can't see the future--and don't know if your mum and dad will come around.  Some do--many do.  Though some children end up rejecting the parent/s because the scarring is so hurtful.

No logic with my mum did anything.  No exegeses (and I did try these with her--the Bible only mentions the term 'arsenokoitai' - three times - the word they say means 'homosexual'.  A whole nother chapter.  Let me know if you think a scriptural analysis would get through to your folks.  I'm happy to share  what I learned about the ancient Greek version of the Bible (that preceded the Latin Vulgate version around 400 ad).  PM me if you would rather that privately done.

Anyhowz--my regards to you.  And courage for your journey.

Stav

I know I haven't been around for a while so I figured I would give a short update on how I'm doing. I was going to start a new thread but I decided to reply here because I wanted to thank everyone for their advice and encouragment so I hope no one minds me bumping an old thread. I didn't mean to just drop off like that but things were getting pretty difficult.

Things have gotten a little better with my family mainly because they don't see me much. There hasn't been a violent outburst from them in a while so I'm thankful for that too. My mother is still on her religious tangent and no matter what I say, I can't get through to her, she's only interested in the Bible passages that can be twisted to reinforce her hatred so I've given up on that. I would still be interested in learning about what the Greek version of the Bible says just out of curiosity though.

In the meantime I've gotten not one but two jobs!  ;D Which is the main reason I haven't seen my family much. My main job is in my field so it's an awesome start for my future. It's kind of embarassing that I haven't been able to move out yet but as soon as I have enough money in the bank, I'm packing up and getting out of here.

Things are looking up for me finally.

Thanks for the update man, we appreciate it. I am glad you are working and in control of the situation as much as humanly possible. I hope things with your family gets better.

Seems like you are making major progress in your life, so congrats - I hope things continue to improve, and it is nice you got a job you can use to build your resume in the field you want to go into to.

Quote from: Contravene on September 27, 2013, 08:00:23 PM
It's kind of embarassing that I haven't been able to move out yet but as soon as I have enough money in the bank, I'm packing up and getting out of here.

Don't feel embarrassed at all about not being moved out just yet. It takes time, and it really has not been that long since you started this thread at least. It is good you are being responsible about it while still keeping a goal in mind.

good luck!

As cold as it sounds, it sounds like you're better off without your parents. If they bring up religion to justify their views then you're really going to have a hard time getting through to them.

Contravene I was in the same spot growing up. Although my father rarely ever used any physical violence as abuse. His method of choice is and was emotional, financial, verbal abuse.

I moved out when I was 21 and still identifying as a boy. What I learned was that my parents would try to "be nice" to me and still give me things which they would use to control me. Please don't fall for that and try to do as much as you can on your own. I left and fourteen years later my parents still abuse each other and try to control me. I haven't spoken to my father in over a year and my mother sees nothing wrong with him. All my leaving the house did was speed up the confrontations between them.

I also agree that being transgender is something that god gave you not as a punishment but a gift to do with as you will. Your family has religion but god only asks for faith. Safe travels and keep your chin up.

Im very saddened by your situation, coming to terms with being trans is very hard enough but to do so in a toxic environment is extremely so.

I feel you need to remove yourself from that environment.  You must protect yourself first and foremost, in this case its clear that reasoning will not work.  A parents role is to nurture and protect.  A follower of christ loves and forgives first and foremost.  You are being abused and it is not your fault and it is not your responsability to fix your abusers.  Get away, get some fresh air and distance and focus on caring for yourself.

  Some gender centers can help with finding accommodation, temporary or otherwise.  Contact social workers in your area and ask for help.

Threatening to kill himself is a manipulative, hateful action- it is not a christian act.  Suicide was made a sin early in the church formation to stop martyrdom which was creating dwindling number of christians at the time.  It's been a sin ever since.  Regardless of if god makes mistakes or not, gods truths are not your fathers to dictate or rule on.  God moves in mysterious ways and gender variance is a fact in this world. Your father is not a christian, he just dresses like one.  Discard his arguements, dont let them effect you.  Be strong and look to nourishing and protecting yourself.

Speak to therapists, social workers, anyone who can possibly help you get some space.

I hope you find your way through these dark times.  There is a lot of happy, light times ahead.

I'm sorry to hear that some people have gone through similar things but hopefully I'll be in your position one day where I'm safe and able to help other people who might be going through what I had to experience.

You're all right that my parents aren't really Christian like they pretend to be. I like the idea of god making me transgender as a gift to discover myself, if there is a god. My parents have actually turned me off to any type of religion. I've always been agnostic but kept my mind open to religion but now it's gone from not caring for religion to despising it. That's just a personal issue of mine though, I don't mean to be offensive about it.

I guess I was overdue for an outburst because my parents attacked me again. I didn't even interact with them today so I'm not sure where the outburst even came from. It was the usual, my dad telling me he didn't want me, screaming at me to kill myself then graphically threatening to kill me if I didn't. My mom stepped in and told him to stop, I thought she was defending me at first until she said "If I wanted (her) dead I would have done that years ago" implying that she would have killed me when I was a baby.

They continued saying even worse things and my dad was getting aggressive but I just ignored him so he backed down (I was making myself dinner and had a knife in my hand so that might have had something to do with it).

I feel like if I am hurt or even murdered, it would be my fault for not getting away. I just can't yet though, I'm stuck right now and my parents know that and take full advantage of my situation to control and abuse me. I'm thinking about contacting social services but I don't want other people to find out about my family and my problems. I want to be careful around coworkers and the like because I'm really scared of losing either of my jobs and if my own parents will turn on me so badly there's no telling what strangers will do.

Maybe I shouldn't bother posting about these things when they happen, I don't know. It just makes me feel better to get it out there. I did manage to record the things my parents were screaming at me so at least there will be evidence if anything bad happens.

I don't know how old you are but you need to get out of there. There could come a point when he makes good on those threats. There are resources for that I believe, I'm sure the folks around here are better acquainted with that than I am but still. That is sick.

Quote from: Contravene on June 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
My dad did say he and my mother would see a gender therapist with me to try to "fix" me but I'm not sure how long it will take to find a decent therapist and make an appointment. I'm afraid my dad will start getting physically violent with me since he's physically abused my mother, my sisters and me in the past. I'm hoping that a gender therapist will be able to reason with them because they may listen to a professional but if things get worse I might just make a run for it to my girlfriend's house even though she lives hours away. Until then, I think I'll try to get them in to a therapist's office.

Are there any Christian gender therapists out there who might be able to reason with my mother? I don't want her hurting because she thinks that I'm some kind of evil sinner who's going to hell. I live in the Pittsburgh PA area and I've looked for some kind of Christian therapist who deals with transgender issuse but I can't find any.

If you can find a Therapist who is either a Christian Him/Herself I think this would be a positive experience for you, in the end god didn't make a mistake he is testing you! (Try that one on your dad :D  )

Overtly Christian people tend to hang on every word of their religious influences too, perhaps you could find a vicar/priest/preacher in your local area who can at least teach them to be more understanding.

Thanks, Frank. You're absolutely right about getting out. I'm working really hard to and I'm so close to being able to finally move out of here. I've been doing some research on social services in my area as a couple people here suggested too so I'll know who to call for help.


Alex,

It's actually ironic that you mention seeing a Christian therapist. I agreed to allow my parents to take me to one but when I met with the one they chose, he blatantly told me he didn't deal with my kind of "issues". I haven't mentioned it yet in this thread because I'm very paranoid about any of my family members coming across my posts online so I dodn't want to get too into detail about my sessions because they would defiitely recognize my experiences whereas the mention of abuse is a little more general so hopefully they wouldn't recognize that. But basically, after a few sessions the therapist stopped contacting us. When I was seeing him, he treated me as if I were some sort of heathen and was very insulting a few times. At one point he said that he wanted to have someone else present during my therapy sessions because he didn't want to be alone with me, like I was some kind of monster who would attack him or something. My parents also participated in most of the sessions and they were ridiculous. They twisted everything to make it seem as they were the victims. My mother even called the therapist at home a few times so she could talk to him about me without my knowledge so god only knows what she said. It was sickening to see how two-faced my parents really are but I don't know why I expected anything less. After my last session, the therapist was supposed to call to schedule us for our next appointment but we never heard from him again. And who could blame him? My family is absolutely freaking insane and to the threapist, I'm some kind of blasphemous monster.

I have tried everything to convince my parents that I'm not a mistake nor am I making one by wanting to be myself. I'm starting to realize that religion really doesn't even have anything to do with it either. I think that they're just using religion as an excuse to carry out their abuse on me. They have been hostile and violent towards me even before they found out that I'm trans but they're using this as an excuse to justify and add to their abuse.


The way my parents act is unreal, it's almost something an outsider would have to see to believe. I know many people unfortunately have abusive families but mine is downright evil because they consciously plan then enact their abuse. They don't just do things on impulse which might be forgivable at times, their torture is premeditated and the mental games they play are sickeningly astounding. People like them should be locked up.

They have power over you, they might see you choosing to be transgender and, as they said, "gay" will make them lose that power.

My mom controls every aspect of my life that she can, she would most likely kill me if i came out to her as i do not believe in her mental stability.

I recomend, and i know you are trying, getting out the second you can, ask your gf for money i you need it, i have delt with male abuse before and they WILL act on it eventaly, it's better to be in debt then in the ground.

If you ever need someone to talk about all of this to I'm here, if you don't want to trust me just yet let me try to prove myself. I want to help you.

Quote from: Contravene on June 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
They can't seem to grasp the concept of what it means to be transgender so they've resorted to saying that I'm gay because they found out that I was visiting my girlfriend who lives in the area where I was job searching.

My mother is an ultra religious Christian and my dad is very bigoted so being gay is a "disgusting sin" to them. I tried to explain to them that it's not wrong to be gay but that I'm not technically gay anyway since I feel that I'm a man in a woman's body. That only made them more outraged though because "god doesn't make mistakes". At one point my dad even screamed at me to "look down between your damn legs, you're not a man" and he and my mother both agreed that they would rather have had me become a prostitute and come home pregnant than have spent time with my girlfriend (even though nothing happened).

I often hear this moronic retort, "God doesn't make mistakes."  Show them this article and ask them if God made a mistake:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome

It is an intersex condition.  These are 46 XY (male genome) individuals who look, feel, and are socialized as females.  If they say, "No," (which they will because it is beyond their ability to critically discuss this, they ask them how they know God's will with respect to you.  Like the people with CAIS, is it possible you were born with a male brain?

Then ask them if Rev. Pat Roberson was wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adCZ8T4CsYM

Rev. Robertson says to your parents, directly, "It is not for you to decide or to judge."  If they do judge you, they are abandoning the tenets of their faith and are in apostasy.

Death threats are an extremely serious matter.  Contact your local police station, tell them you have been threatened  and ask if you can talk to a social worker asap.  No one has the right to threaten your life.

Get to a safe place.  There is no excuse for that behavior.  You need someone to help you right away.

Be safe.

Your parents, especially your father. now you said your mother was abused. I think your mother doesnt know how to end the chain of abuse by walking out the door because she has no place to go. You deserve the very best that you can. I came out to my mom yesterday and she too wants to persuade me for thinking I can not be transgender. She says I am a man and thats it. But I do see your mom may come through because she herself could be abused if she goes against her husband.

I'm back again and I have to be honest, sometimes it takes me so long to reply on this particular thread because it's kind of painful for me. =\

The death threats come and go. Right now my family is being kind to me which is actually more painful than if they just treated me badly. At least if they treated me badly it would make it easier to go our separate ways. It's almost like some kind of love/hate relationship.

I tried talking to my mother again with the hope of showing her the Pat Robertson video but she wasn't having it. I realized that she doesn't even understand what the term "Transgender" means. I asked her to explain what it means to be transgender and she replied with something along the lines of "it means you want to go both ways". I'm not sure but I think that was some sort of strange take on bisexuality rather than transgender. I tried to explain that the mind and body are two different things, that the body is just a vessel and doesn't define a person but the mind does and when a person is transgender it means that the gender of their mind doesn't match the gender of their body. She seemed speechless a few times and I know she understood but she simply said she wouldn't accept it and the heartbreaking part for me was that when I asked her if she could please learn more about gender identity and what it means to be transgender she said no, that she refused to educate herself about it. When I asked to just sit and talk with her so we could both give our opinions she said she would give hers but didn't want to hear mine. How am I supposed to get throughto someone who just blatantly refuses to try. I think the thing she dislikes though is the fact that I have a girlfriend. How can she be upset with me being trans if she doesn't even know what it means? She went on to talk about how I've been brainwashed into thinking I'm transgender and that was about where the conversation ended because even though I tried to explain that I've felt this way since I was a child, she wouldn't listen.

I guess this is more like venting for me since I just can't get through to my family and I can't move out yet. I think a little distance would help but that's not going to happen anytime soon because I just found out that I have a soul crushing amount of student loan debt. Lately I've been wondering if my life is even worth living. The only reason I continue to do so is my girlfriend.

All of your advice has been wonderful though. If my family members were more sensible people all the suggestions here would undoubtedly get through to them.

Xhianil,

you don't have to prove yourself to me but I'm always a very guarded person. I appreciate all the help that's offered to me though. I'm already in unimaginable debt so moving out and putting myself further into debt isn't an option since I would like to pay it off one day. The best I can do right now is save up as much as I can and even that isn't going to be enough.


Jamie,

the article and video clip are great and they actually were enlightening for me too. I guess I can keep trying. If my family is trying to break me and make me reject who I am I guess it won't hurt to try to do the opposite and try getting them to accept who I am.


Emmaline,

You're right, the death threats are no joke. I guess I seem to take them lightly but really, I don't. At this point though I'm not really sure if I care what they do to me physically. Anything to distract from the emotional pain would be welcomed.


Izzy,

I wish you luck with your mother, I hope things are looking up for you. You're right that my mother is also the victim of abuse, that's why I don't want to give up on her. The same goes for my sisters. If anyone is capable of understanding me, it's my mother but I have to get through to her first somehow and I'm worried that I never will.

Please consider this possible course of action: Get at least one audio recorder (preferably two, one for back-up). Keep the recorder(s) with you at all times when you're with your parents. At an appropriate time, tell them that the next time that they (especially your father) make a threat on your life, you will record it and turn it over to the police. Be sure to have it recording while you're telling them so that you get their reaction, in case it makes for good enough evidence on its own. And if they try to take the recorder from you, your back-up (which you would never reveal) will still have you covered. Of course, of you do manage to record something damning, definitely give it to the police. The death threats need to stop. There is no compelling rationale for you to keep enduring them.

On the off chance that you can talk to them about their religious justifications, you should suggest that they re-read the Bible and find the exact passages that clearly condemn lesbianism and ->-bleeped-<-. It won't be possible. There's only one passage that might be about lesbians, Romans 1:26, but it's not clear that the behavior that it mentions about women is sexual. Plus, the context of the passage, starting from Romans 1:21, shows that God is responsible for making people gay; it's not a free choice. Please see this video by the wonderful Zinnia Jones for an explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_wa9lnSSN4

The Bible has nothing to say about ->-bleeped-<-. There are supposed prohibitions against cross-dressing, but they're in the Old Testament alongside other laws that people ignore (or claim that the New Testament invalidates), such as the prohibitions about eating shellfish and mixing different fabrics. But women wearing pants and suits is almost universally accepted nowadays. There's nothing about physically modifying the body to assume a different gender role. On the contrary, the Bible does mention eunuchs (i.e., men who are anatomically castrated) in a rather positive light and implies that they have a unique (not female but not exactly male) and valuable gender role. Please see this article: http://www.studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T1955

The "God doesn't make mistakes" line is just plain idiotic. But it's understandable if you're framing it (explicitly or implicitly) as a "mistake" that you're trying to correct. The best way to go is to explain it as a congenital medical condition that you're having treated. Does God make a mistake when he creates babies that are born with Down's syndrome (like Sarah Palin's youngest child)? A Christian might spin congenital illnesses like Down's syndrome as God's way of creating a special and unique spiritual journey for every person. Likewise, God didn't make a mistake by putting your male brain in a female body. He did that because he wants you to transition as part of your spiritual journey. (Please note that I am an atheist. What I've said is just my idea for how to explain it to your parents.)

Jamie mentioned intersex; that's a good way to go as well, though I'm not sure if CAIS would be the most compelling example. Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (which often results in major genital ambiguity), and especially extra chromosomes, are better since they don't allow your parents keep thinking in terms of strictly "male" and "female." Extra chromosomes, like XXY syndrome, would be particularly hard for people like your parents to reconcile with their idea of a god that doesn't make mistakes.

They are talking to you? Can't be that hostile. I had more than a few unfriend + blockings from "family." As far as direct relationships, lets just say I didn't come out to mom until I actually owned her house, not the other way around.

Quote from: Contravene on June 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
Sorry, I know this is pretty long but I really, really need help.

I finally came out to my parents the other day. My mother sort of forced it out of me as I was talking to her on the phone. I had been away for a few days to go on job interviews and when I got home, the entire family attacked me.

They can't seem to grasp the concept of what it means to be transgender so they've resorted to saying that I'm gay because they found out that I was visiting my girlfriend who lives in the area where I was job searching.

My mother is an ultra religious Christian and my dad is very bigoted so being gay is a "disgusting sin" to them. I tried to explain to them that it's not wrong to be gay but that I'm not technically gay anyway since I feel that I'm a man in a woman's body. That only made them more outraged though because "god doesn't make mistakes". At one point my dad even screamed at me to "look down between your damn legs, you're not a man" and he and my mother both agreed that they would rather have had me become a prostitute and come home pregnant than have spent time with my girlfriend (even though nothing happened).

I'm not sure how to deal with them. I know they've abused me in the past but I still love them, especially my mother. I thought that at least she would understand me but she has a childlike faith and there's no reasoning with her. It's heartbreaking to know that I'm hurting her so much over this. I tried to tell her that I'm not a mistake, that god made me this way for some reason but she wasn't having it. Her and my dad told me that being transgender or gay is not only a sin but also a communist conspiracy used to warp peoples' minds and turn them away from god. That should give you an idea of the type of craziness and naïveté I'm dealing with here.

My mother is making herself sick over this and my dad has been threatening to kill himself. I feel like I destroyed my family.

They keep telling me to either cut off all contact with my girlfriend or leave home and never come back because they don't want to have anything to do with me anymore. I chose to leave but I can't because my dad has already threatened to take my car away or report it stolen if I try to since it's registered in his name. He's also threatened to smash my computer so that means I won't be able to find help. I'm stuck and don't know how to get out of this mess. My girlfriend's family doesn't have a car right now or else they would come to get me.

My dad did say he and my mother would see a gender therapist with me to try to "fix" me but I'm not sure how long it will take to find a decent therapist and make an appointment. I'm afraid my dad will start getting physically violent with me since he's physically abused my mother, my sisters and me in the past. I'm hoping that a gender therapist will be able to reason with them because they may listen to a professional but if things get worse I might just make a run for it to my girlfriend's house even though she lives hours away. Until then, I think I'll try to get them in to a therapist's office.

Are there any Christian gender therapists out there who might be able to reason with my mother? I don't want her hurting because she thinks that I'm some kind of evil sinner who's going to hell. I live in the Pittsburgh PA area and I've looked for some kind of Christian therapist who deals with transgender issuse but I can't find any.

For now I've decided to stop engaging them since it's impossible to talk with them sensibly. Is there anything I can do other than just leaving? I don't want to leave my family in this turmoil whether they deserve it or not.

Being 37 years old (yes im old lol) and being raised in the same kind of back ground and family,i want to give some experience with my own and how i dealt with it.

its true that God does NOT make mistakes.But humans do and so does the human brain.I took myself to be a blessing and not a curse,that God had this in store for me.Wisdom through the entire gender spectrum which has and will,make me a much better man.But let me give you a fast run down.
My mother was the badgering type.She was what i call a *blank talker* or *blank thinker* Ya know the type that thinks *maybe if i push enough,they will break down and give in* but they tend to contradict their selves/lose track.So its all mainly about pressure regardless of facts/truth.though i was not the type of person to give up what I know to be right inside my heart.Though my father was a rather good man,he was easier but more about intimidation then anything.My family was the type to *interpert* things the way they want,mold and form for their benefit and not the other way around as it should be.WE mold to the bible,not use molding it.Without connection to the Holy spirit *Spirit of God* there is NO way of understanding the words HE wrote and if you try,you come up with your own.Some facts that most refuse to acknowledge:

1) Being *Gay* is not a sin.There was no such term back then.It was only frowned down on *sex wise* in the earlier days of the old testment because at that time it was about reproduction.During this time,NO where does it state that two men could NOT love one another.Adam and Eve for example,it does state they made them male and female but it does NOT speak of the inner spirit/brain/true person but the bodies ability to have children.So it only spoke of a physical form and its use.This WAS needed at the time in order to add more to the world.As God told them to do so.But it also stated that woman would give birth in pain and man would work for the rest of his life (After the fall) but most fail to see that incest was a HUGE part of that.Is it wrong to engage in incest? since adam and eve's children HAD to do so in order to continue the chain? Because according to these kind of mind sets,one is wrong but another is not? sodom and gomorrah was destroyed for its MANY crimes,not due to its homosexuality.Aside from them ignoring the constant calls and warnings from God his self over what should be changed.Even when sex is involved,God believes in it being between two souls-not 10 or 20 at once.He DOES enforce where he says that *two souls shall become one* the same as with marriage.*which mind you sex was the only way to bond that marriage between two people*
2) A bad habit it seems is for most type of parents to *pick* Gods destiny for them and another form of control.My mother was very controlling and one reason i grew up so sheltered.Dad was the power/enforcer if issues came and mom was the blanket that kept me covered.It is very hard when that effort is proven ineffective for them.Ask that kind of person *close your eyes and tell me what you see and feel* and their reaction will show what kind of person they are.a person with pure faith in God and love,will do so and tell you but one who depends on their own sight and perception,will refuse and give a struggle.Which is my mother.What one see's is NOT always what is and without Gods leadership and perception,we will never be able to see outside of our own eye lids.As the saying goes *only a worldly mind will refuse to see beyond it*
3) The most important thing to remember is this,there is NOTHING you can do or say.I know that doesnt help and i know thats not something someone like me and you,needs to hear but i learnt this the hard way.When i came out to my mother,she gave me the same thing but all the down grades that go with it,the put downs,making me feel 100% more worthless then i did before.I remember the conversation then changing the name on my face book.I sent her a pm and asked her to remove *the tags of ME off my old photos* and she outright said *who are you?! and how dare you tell me to remove the images of my daughter!* and she had deleted my account and blocked me (knowing for a fact it was me).After this,the stalking by my brother started-even using his own daughters account because i had blocked his other mains *which he had two he also used* i remember how after my mother did this,my brother chased me,falling into that same trap that i believed myself so long before.Correcting me,telling me im wrong,how i just needed to repent and go to God.They knew NOTHING about me or God.I gained a pure hatred for the *selective* love-only those worthy of it would gain it while the rest where cast out.i KNEW God would never do that and i refused to let a worldly thinker tell me otherwise.After this i accepted that she had left me to rott and if i had to listen to my brother one more time,i would snap.So i made the choice *aside from her* to say goodbye.I walked away and changed my last name,never wanting to be linked to them.I knew there was nothing *I* could do for them and i knew my life wouldnt be worth living if i stayed with the remaining.I know some of us cant do anything about it but the best thing to do is NOT to tell them what they want to hear but just do not tell them anything at all.Tell them you dont want to talk about it anymore,tell them you will pray and leave it at that and instead,pray God change their way of thinking or show you a way out.Otherwise,your fighting a losing and tiring battle.
4) just now adding this because i seen one part that i didnt address and also knowing what this feels like.This is a form of *guilt trip* or *manipulation* tactic.Harsh but very true.Most people who are in pain,seek comfort and seek some form of help but when they pull away constantly with painful and hurtful comments,they are not seeking help or comfort but to do just that,cause pain.If you were drowning,would YOU refuse a hand to help you? of course not.In turn,making one to feel to blame and causing them to retract back into their shell for the safety and happiness of their loved ones.My mother LOVED this tactic because it worked everytime and i spent most of my time locked away but she showed no clear signs of caring of what such comments did to me,in a sense the mission was accomplished on her end and she was done *until the next time* As an example: She would stand there and attack me over my past,saying things like *who you talking to?! one of your drug buddies?! going to go get high?! seems thats all your worth!* now IF i at all corrected her,making known how this made me feel (since she had proof that i had stopped LONG before) she would *turn on the water works* and you knew it and seen it in her face.Since she was controlling,she hated the thought that someone was coming before her.If i continued,it got worse till it came to outright insults and the *full trips* would start *you dont love me! your a liar! you want me dead!* and so much more.But you do become numb to these kinds of things and one reason i havent lived with her in over 10 or so years.I literally walked out with a bag in my hand and the middle finger up.

But during those times,let Him be your guard and support and your friends,until that time comes.As the term says *like talking to a wall* it IS pointless,even though we want so bad for it not to be.This is something THEY must be open to want.I do hope that things change for you for the best but in all,dont expect anything and you wont be disappointed.Worry about you right now and your well being.Keep your head up

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 07, 2013, 03:22:27 AM
I often hear this moronic retort, "God doesn't make mistakes."  Show them this article and ask them if God made a mistake:

I don't believe in any GODs, however, I do believe principally in the statement, "God does not make mistakes".

Like Albert Einstein's famous saying , "God does not play with dice". The universe is fundamentally ordered that saying a "mistake" happened would imply that something that should not have happened - did happen. This would be in contradiction to believing in an ordered universe.

Just my opinion though.

Quote from: Contravene on June 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
They can't seem to grasp the concept of what it means to be transgender so they've resorted to saying that I'm gay because they found out that I was visiting my girlfriend who lives in the area where I was job searching.

Contravene, you did not say if you follow their religion?

If so, did you see the local church leader ? Some faiths accept LGBT.

Can't the local church leader intervene?

Quote from: Contravene on June 30, 2013, 04:13:36 AM
At one point my dad even screamed at me to "look down between your damn legs, you're not a man"

That is just the worst thing, I'm so sad you had to go through that and be denigrated by your family that way. I'm not personally a believer in a "God" but that "doesn't make a mistake" line is a non sequitur of the worst kind; under that logic the hundreds of thousands of babies born with deformities, cleft palates, holes in their hearts, etc are "not mistakes" and shouldn't be corrected through surgery either. As Christians there are so many ways they could have handled your outing - with love and acceptance - but they've chosen a path that is more about them than about you (trying to use threats of self harm to control your behaviour, worrying about what God and others think). While it doesn't excuse their behaviour they are clearly in a state of shock and denial and it would seem they don't like the idea of you no longer being controlled by what they want you to do and be. Maybe in time they can heal but right now your home environment seems pretty toxic and possibly unsafe, please take care. All the best.

On seeking a therapist please be aware that a majority of appropriate therapists in no way call themselves gender therapists. I'd caution on seeking a specific gender therapist in that your family will clearly dismiss that therapist. It's be better to find a nondenominational, Dr of Clinical Psychology or the like(phd). Sure there are plenty of proper/appropriate LCSW's but they don't have the authority that Doctors do.
To find them I strongly encourage you to come out to your primary doctor if appropriate (if they are not and would not be hostile), and seek a reference from them.
Method number 2 would be consult local trans friendly group. They often not only know the doctors, but ones that hopefully won't run you broke. On the other hand getting access to adult groups could be a problem(there are flat out age restrictions on some groups.) further if your family gets a whiff of where you learned about the therapist again they will move to dismiss.
If you do use a Dr of psychology that will be helpful if you do transition, again authority that can vouch for your situation and write letters.
Any therapist worth their certificate will listen and assess your needs including possibly referring you on, your family should not have undue say in your treatment. There are finite limits to the authority of parents, they don't include threats.
If your situation is so bound up that everything you are allowed access to is tainted with hostile influence then you may need to change your situation before moving forward.

Quote from: Contravene on November 01, 2013, 07:19:55 AM
I'm back again and I have to be honest, sometimes it takes me so long to reply on this particular thread because it's kind of painful for me. =\

It's ok, you don't have to post for us, do what you feel comfortable doing.

Quote from: Contravene on November 01, 2013, 07:19:55 AM
I tried talking to my mother again with the hope of showing her the Pat Robertson video but she wasn't having it. I realized that she doesn't even understand what the term "Transgender" means. I asked her to explain what it means to be transgender and she replied with something along the lines of "it means you want to go both ways". I'm not sure but I think that was some sort of strange take on bisexuality rather than transgender. I tried to explain that the mind and body are two different things, that the body is just a vessel and doesn't define a person but the mind does and when a person is transgender it means that the gender of their mind doesn't match the gender of their body. She seemed speechless a few times and I know she understood but she simply said she wouldn't accept it and the heartbreaking part for me was that when I asked her if she could please learn more about gender identity and what it means to be transgender she said no, that she refused to educate herself about it. When I asked to just sit and talk with her so we could both give our opinions she said she would give hers but didn't want to hear mine. How am I supposed to get throughto someone who just blatantly refuses to try. I think the thing she dislikes though is the fact that I have a girlfriend. How can she be upset with me being trans if she doesn't even know what it means? She went on to talk about how I've been brainwashed into thinking I'm transgender and that was about where the conversation ended because even though I tried to explain that I've felt this way since I was a child, she wouldn't listen.

At least she doesn't know what it is from a biased source, she still is semi-open to learning, though i know you probably won't do it, nor do i blame you considering.

Quote from: Contravene on November 01, 2013, 07:19:55 AM
I guess this is more like venting for me since I just can't get through to my family and I can't move out yet. I think a little distance would help but that's not going to happen anytime soon because I just found out that I have a soul crushing amount of student loan debt. Lately I've been wondering if my life is even worth living. The only reason I continue to do so is my girlfriend.

In time you will be able to, but i recommend it to be soon, but i will not force you to do what you don't want. It is worth living, it is, after this shell of pain passes, in time, it will be better, in time... All things in time, if you look at my signature you'll see a timer, thats till i can even consider leaving, so i know how much if sucks being trapped.

Quote from: Contravene on November 01, 2013, 07:19:55 AM
All of your advice has been wonderful though. If my family members were more sensible people all the suggestions here would undoubtedly get through to them.

Theres a saying that apples here that i giggle at sometimes, you can't argue with stupid.

Quote from: Contravene on November 01, 2013, 07:19:55 AM
Xhianil,

you don't have to prove yourself to me but I'm always a very guarded person. I appreciate all the help that's offered to me though. I'm already in unimaginable debt so moving out and putting myself further into debt isn't an option since I would like to pay it off one day. The best I can do right now is save up as much as I can and even that isn't going to be enough.

I thought i didn't, you don't seem like someone like that, though I'd still be glad to. Debt is still better then death, but for now learn to live cheap, it's hard to do so but it will help. Whatever happens, i hope you stay ok.

Sorry if this post sounds weird, this is the 8th time I've wrote it *glares at router* but wether it sounds like it or not, you seem like a good guy, i wish you well.

It is time for you to move out.
Your parents are not (nor have they shown any interest in) willing to bend at all- that  much is clear.
You are banging your head against a wall trying to deal with them.
Cut your losses and go live your life.

Ok, I apologize for this, but I'm going to reply without reading any other replies. So I apologize for repeats.

First, despite your family's religious nature, that's sort of an excuse. While I realize it's a "sin" to them and such and such, even if they weren't religious, it seems they don't understand, period. If they weren't religious, they'd find some reason to say it's wrong. People tend to be hostile towards things they don't understand. My in-laws are Catholic, but not crazy religious. Until they found out. Then they played the religion card.

Second, I wouldn't recommend lying to them. You'll be heading backwards sooner than forwards. So, I'd say drop the "gay" thing, and just stick with the truth.

As per the abuse, I'm curious to know how old you are. It sounds to me like you don't have the ability to leave (i.e. under 18). If abuse is what you're afraid of, that needs to be shared with a counselor, because that is something wrong, your gender identity aside.

I know you feel like this is your fault, but don't fret over your mother being sick, or your dad's suicidal threats. Those are their choices. Yes it is a result of you coming out, but they are clearly close minded people (as you've already mentioned). Their inability to deal with this would probably be similar to other "major catastrophes."

Just remember, despite their threats and such, you have a right to feel safe, and there is help you can get, no matter what. If you're still in school, you can talk to a counselor about the abuse, and about your gender identity. If you're an adult, your parents can't stop you from seeing someone. There are services you can get if you can't afford a therapist (I personally haven't found any, but I didn't really try looking).

As per the gender therapist, if they aren't a gatekeeper, they will not try to fix you. You'll know they're a gatekeeper after the first session. They'll do everything they possibly can to stop you from transitioning.


After reading your second post, I'd say the best way for you to handle things is to rely on any friends you may have, and if you can keep in contact with your girlfriend, use that to your advantage. Given the history of abuse you described, give your girlfriend a signal that you'll use. Like "if I don't contact you after so many days, call the police" or something. Give her you local police station number. Find a way to keep yourself safe using her. She may be far away, but if she knows your history of abuse, I'm pretty sure the police can come take a look if she tells them "Hey, my girlfriend's family has a history of abuse, and she hasn't answered my calls/texts/etc. in several days, and it's uncharacteristic." (BTW, I use girlfriend because it will be easier on the police. Not trying to mis-gender you).

That's about all I can offer. My in-laws are pains too, but in reality, I believe we've all had someone like that. It seems hard now, but give it some time. Things will get better eventually.

Also, on another note, I live near Reading, so you're only a few hours away from me. Don't know where your girlfriend is (you mentioned she lives a few hours away), but if she's over this way, let me know if/when you get over here.

Silvermist,

I have a recorder on my phone so I've used that to record both the good and bad things they say. I actually have quite a few recordings of them already, some of them are very incriminating. It's a good idea to get a second recorder as back up though. I've tried talking to them about their religious justifications but their beliefs are completely unfounded. They personally are transphobic and homophobic so they try to use religion as an excuse to keep acting on their phobias. In their minds being transgender or gay is sexual deviancy which is why they're so against it, it really has nothing to do with their religious beliefs as I've found out. Thank you for posting the article and the video, they're really informative and it makes me feel better about how I would be viewed from a sensible Christian's stand point.


Missy~rmdlm,

I'm sorry to hear that you've had people cut you off like that. My family does talk to me but the majority of the time they're not saying anything nice. Thanks for the advice about therapists, I'll definitely be careful about who I choose to see. I've had bad experiences with psychiatrists and psychologists in the past so I'm already very picky about choosing one who can help me in my current situation. I have some problems with anxiety so if my parents refuse to allow me to see a psychologist for my gender identity issues, I can possibly use my anxiety as an excuse to see one even though that probably sounds like a crappy thing to do.


Chaos,

Your family background does sound a lot like mine. The facts you listed are great but as you pointed out a lot of people, including my parents, choose to ignore those certain facts. Both of my parents are extremely controlling and my dad's favorite tactic is guilt tripping. I have to be careful sometimes because they play some serious mind games. I know you said it doesn't help to be told that there's nothing I can do to get through to my family but I think it actually does help. It makes it a little easier to let go and let them believe what they want rather than always fighting to get through to them. I'll wait until they're open to learning more but I'll never expect them to be. Thank you for sharing your experiences.


genderhell,

I don't follow any particular religion, I identify as agnostic. I respect people's beliefs unless those beliefs are used as an excuse to hurt others as my parents do. I'm really reluctant to speak to anyone within the church too because my family has a knack for finding people who's beliefs are as warped as theirs are. I agree that being transgender isn't a mistake, I like to view it more as a learning experience. Claiming that I'm not transgender because "god doesn't make mistakes" is just a line my mother resorts to using when she doesn't know what else to say. She has no idea how contradictory it is.


Ms Grace,

Thank you for the well wishes. You have a very good point about how flawed that sort of logic is. It's sad that my family decided to act on their negativity rather than being compassionate and understanding as real Christians are. But you're right, they chose their path so chose mine. They really are angry that they've lost control over me. My dad actually yelled at me not too long ago saying "you just want to control your own life!" It's almost laughable because of course I want to control my own life, who wouldn't?


Xhianil,

I suppose it is a good thing that my mother is so clueless as to what being transgender really means. My situation would be much worse if she had been misinformed by someone who was biased. There isn't much I can do since she just blatantly refuses to educate herself but if she ever opens herself up to learning more I would be willing to help her. I'm not holding my breath though. I think it's one of those things that she has to do and seek out information on her own. As for my financial situation, I've been saving up a little at a time and it's not nearly enough to move out but I'm slowly getting there so I'll be okay. I really hope you're able to get out soon too. And thank you for taking the time to post everything eight times, that must have been really frustrating!


chuck,

It's a lot easier said than done but you're right. I do plan on moving on with my life but I also don't want to have to say I gave up on them simply because I want it to be clear that they're the ones who failed me, not the other way around. I know it's stupid but it's more for my benefit than theirs, I don't want them to be another burden on my conscience.


ChelseaAnn,

They do use religion as an excuse and I realized that the last time I talked to my mother. I think I mentioned earlier in my post that religion really has nothing to do with why they're so against me being transgender. The real reason is that they associate being transgender with sexual deviancy which is completely off-base. I've also tried explaining to them that I'm not gay but they insist on saying that I am because they can't comprehend what it means to be transgender. I've given up on correcting them because it only leads to more arguing so when they call me out for being gay, I just let them.

As for the abuse the sad part is that I'm not under eighteen, I'm actually in my early twenties so I don't have many options other than just moving out and getting away from them. I'm working as hard as I can to get away but I just can't yet. I recently graduated from college and have two jobs so everything was going fine at first, I actually anticipated moving out sometime this spring but I recently found out that my parents "got student loans for me" as they put it. I had no idea, when they promised to help me pay for school I thought they were paying out of pocket but the loans are in my name so I'm stuck with them unless I decide to make a case for fraud. So I have some very serious problems on my hands and there could be really bad repercussions for me if I'm not careful. They already hold the loans over my head, saying they'll pay them as long as I "stop this transgender b.s." but if I don't, they threaten to kick me out and sic the loan sharks on me. These people aren't just pains, they can be monsters. I like to believe that they won't act on their threats but I can't trust them anymore.

My girlfriend and I have a plan set up incase anything were to happen but I've never thought to tell her my local police station's number so I'll be sure to do that. Even though we're apart, we talk constantly and have a lot of different ways to contact each other so I'm sure if I even went a day without talking with her, she would sound the alarm.

Good to hear about your girlfriend. Sadly, your being over eighteen makes any abuse turn into assault. You have a right to be safe, as I believe I stated in my last post. If you are struck, don't wait for them to get another chance. It's not worth risking your life.
I'm nervous about going to Thanksgiving with my in-laws, but my wife and I are keeping as much packed as we can so we can leave if things get bad. Just keep your safety in mind.
it would suck if you're unable to transition due to finances, but you won't be able to at all if you're killed. And don't forget how quickly abuse can escalate.

Btw, you didn't mention whereabouts your girlfriend lived in Pennsylvania. Is she near Reading?

I definitely won't allow them another chance to hurt me. It's mostly my dad who gets aggressive but I've learned how to recognize when he's only threatening me and when he actually intends to harm me.

I'm very scared that I might not be able to afford to transition one day because of the debt my parents put me in. I was so hopeful but when I found out about the loans I kind of crashed and became very nearly suicidal because I may end up living with my parents for a few more years to pay them off and even then I'm not sure if I'll be able to because they're so much. I'm sure I'll be able to figure things out though, I'm not completely without options or at least I like to think that I'm not.

My girlfriend lives on the east coast so she's a lot closer to Reading than I am. I also have friends from school who live about 2 hours from there so that isn't too far. I'll definitely let you know if I'm ever in the area. Normally I would spend time with my friends and girlfriend for the holidays but work and my parents have me on a tight leash.

I really hope your Thanksgiving goes well. The holidays seem to be a stressful time for a lot of people so you aren't alone.

Quote from: Contravene on November 12, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
Silvermist,

I have a recorder on my phone so I've used that to record both the good and bad things they say. I actually have quite a few recordings of them already, some of them are very incriminating. It's a good idea to get a second recorder as back up though. I've tried talking to them about their religious justifications but their beliefs are completely unfounded. They personally are transphobic and homophobic so they try to use religion as an excuse to keep acting on their phobias. In their minds being transgender or gay is sexual deviancy which is why they're so against it, it really has nothing to do with their religious beliefs as I've found out. Thank you for posting the article and the video, they're really informative and it makes me feel better about how I would be viewed from a sensible Christian's stand point.

How can you be so sure that your parents' belief (that homosexuality and ->-bleeped-<- are forms of sexual deviancy) really is not religiously motivated? Human natures makes people fear what they don't understand, but when they subscribe to a non-rational belief system such as a religion, their non-rational fears become amplified and justified. And that's precisely why their minds are so resistant to change. By definition, a rational worldview is open to questioning, logic, and evidence. If we examine the term "sexual deviancy" more closely, we will find that it is rather empty of meaning. Where does one draw the line between what is "deviant" sexual behavior and what is not? Under the strictest definition, any kind of sex other than male-on-top vaginal intercourse solely for purpose of procreation would be considered "deviant." Thus, disapproval of non-procreative, non-vaginal, non-male-on-top sex is ultimately arbitrary.

So what does it have to do with morality or "sin"? The Bible itself does not specify exactly what types of penetration or positions are prohibited. Valid arguments can be made about activities that result in semen landing in places other than the inside of a vagina. But because lesbian sex (assuming that it is between cisgender women, of course) does not involve penises and semen, a strong case could be made that lesbian sex wouldn't even qualify as "sex" under the Bible's criteria. A woman cannot "know" (in the biblical sense) a woman like a man can. The only degree to which concerns about "sexual deviancy" are relevant to morality are situations in which the wellbeing of a participant is directly endangered, especially when the participant has not consented. In a rational worldview, the only kinds of sex that are "wrong" are those that are non-consensual because the immorality of any consensual acts can scarcely be defended on rational grounds.

Saying that lesbianism is wrong because it is "disgusting," "unnatural," and/or nontraditional is fallacious: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_repugnance and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

Interracial marriage was thought be disgusting and was outlawed until just a few decades ago (though some people still find it repugnant). Nylon and computers are unnatural, but very few people have moral problems with those and other synthetic/artificial things. Modern democratic nations like America, France, and the U. K. were founded on rejections of the longstanding "traditional" regimes of monarchy, autocracy, and oligarchy.

Homophobia has been so deeply engrained that most of us have been guilty of it at some point, because we learned by cultural osmosis and hadn't questioned it. Many homosexuals still suffer from internalized homophobia. But every person who has come to accept it has done so because, on closer examination, the fears and prejudices have no rational basis. But sadly, those who cling onto bigotry are motivated by non-rational justifications, religion being one of the most potent and intractable. It's no surprise: Religiously-motivated homophobia isn't just a single belief that's ripe for repudiation; it's woven into the fabric of a person's most deeply-held philosophy, the lens through which she/he makes sense of, and interacts with, the world.

I believe that the hearts and minds of religious people can be changed, even without forcing them to let go of their religions. Religious people are not totally irrational or illogical. And more often than not, their beliefs are not informed by years of thorough scholarship of scripture. For most, their beliefs are formed from gut feelings combined with whatever church leaders say. When they read scripture, the readings are always selective. What might be constructive is to challenge them to reconcile the passages that they hold dear with the ones that they prefer to avoid.

I've already listed the only passage in the Bible that talks about lesbianism. Here's the one that talks about cross-dressing:

Quote from: Deuteronomy 22:5A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.

If you Google it, you'll find plenty of people who vehemently assert how "obvious" and "straightforward" that it is. God does not allow cross-dressing, plain and simple. But here are two more passages from the very same chapter of the very same book:

Quote from: Deuteronomy 22:23-24If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Quote from: Deuteronomy 22:28-29If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

That's right. God commands that rape victims be either given the death penalty or forced to marry their rapists, depending on the circumstances. Please note that the above quotes were taken from the New International Version, which is the bestselling English translation in the world (with half a billion copies sold), so it's not like I'm just paraphrasing the Bible to make my point.

As I said, almost everyone these days disregards most of the Old Testament laws like those found in Deuteronomy chapter 22. So if we take the anti-cross-dressing verse off the table and conclude that there is nothing explicitly prohibiting lesbian sex, then the only reason why people like your parents believe that lesbianism and ->-bleeped-<- are forms of sexual deviancy are because they were told so by their church leader(s) and/or because they jumped onto the old homophobia bandwagon without another thought. If you continue to make excuses for why your parents' minds can't be changed, then they never will change, at least not on their own. Don't you owe it to yourself to try to get through to them? At least by challenging them on scripture, you can make your case using their language.

Quote from: Contravene on November 12, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
...but I recently found out that my parents "got student loans for me" as they put it. I had no idea, when they promised to help me pay for school I thought they were paying out of pocket but the loans are in my name so I'm stuck with them unless I decide to make a case for fraud.

I have to say,  this sounds like another good reason to move out.  Taking out loans in your name without your knowledge, even if they were to pay for your schooling, is not good.  You do have some options for talking to the lenders about deferment or forbearance of the loans until you get on your feet...  But if I were you I would be checking whether the balance you owe matches the amount of financial support you received for education.  If it doesn't then you should seriously consider talking to a lawyer about your options.

I'm sure you love your parents... but you've been talking about emotional abuse, mental abuse, manipulation... and now you're talking about possible criminal fraud?!  Don't spend another 2 years with these people.  If you can manage it, don't spend another 2 minutes.   
I know moving out on your own is uncertain and scary, but is it any more scary than the certainty of what your life will be like if you spend another 2 years with these people?  At this point, even bankruptcy sounds like a better option. 

Quote from: SunKat on November 13, 2013, 12:50:12 AM
I know moving out on your own is uncertain and scary, but is it any more scary than the certainty of what your life will be like if you spend another 2 years with these people?  At this point, even bankruptcy sounds like a better option.

I  don't mean to gang up on you, but i agree with sun 100%.

Silvermist,

I should actually clarify that I believe my mother's transphobia is partially motivated by religion but not entirely and I don't believe my father's transphobia is religiously motivated at all. My parents' thought processes are very hard to figure out so I'll try to explain why I believe this.

My mother defines deviant sex not only as being any sex that isn't between a man and a woman but also as any sex that's used to harm. (I think that's similar to how you mentioned deviant sex being related to morality.) She also doesn't understand that gender identity and sexuality are two different things. She once told me that "being transgender is only a step above being a pedophile". So in her mind, people who are transgender are sexual deviants much like pedophiles are. I really have no idea how she could liken being trans to being a pedophile and it sickens me that she does but I think it ties back into her distorted religious beliefs because according to her, being transgender isn't harming another person as pedophilia would but it is harming my mind, body and soul which are god's creations and on top of that being transgender would mean that I wouldn't be having straight, male on female sex. She's the kind of person you mentioned who just blindly follows what church leaders have told her. I've asked her to explain her reasoning behind why being transgender is a sin from a religious stand point but she's never able to provide any explanation or real evidence as to why it would be a sin according to god or the Bible. The only explanation she could give was to say that I should accept how god made me and that it was a sin to go against his creation, that even if I feel I'm a man I should deny those feelings and force myself to be what I was born as. My mother picks and chooses to cite Bible passages that will support her own personal views. When I reminded her of other Old Testament passages that are no longer followed she doesn't want to hear it.

As for my father, he has always confided in me that he doesn't really believe in god so I don't think religion has anything to do with his transphobia and homophobia. He's more of the person who jumped on the transphobia/homophobia bandwagon. From what I've observed he seems to feel that being transgender is a deviancy because he's sexist and views women as an inferior gender therefore he believes they should not equate themselves to men in any way much less transition into men. Sometimes he's accepting of transexuality and homosexuality but other times he's vulgar in declaring his hatred for both. Based on some of his behaviors I really think that he has some latent homosexual tendencies that he represses which is why he's so overly outspoken against it sometimes. He also has always had a sadistic desire to harm and torture me so among doing other things, he has always harassed me about my sexuality even before I came out so when I told my family I was trans he jumped at the opportunity to hurt me rather than help me.

I believe that the hearts of religious people can be changed too but that's the problem with trying to changes my family members' hearts, their beliefs aren't entirely motivated by religion and they just won't open their hearts up tp being changed. I can throw knowledge and scripture at them as much as I want but it's like hitting a brick wall, nothing will get through to them until they want it to. The best I can do is keep working on them so that even if they still refuse to listen I won't have to say I didn't try.


SunKat,

My financial trouble is partially my fault for trusting my parents. In the past I've allowed them to sign for me on things so that's what they did with the loans. I really do love them despite the abuse because even though they have their bad sides, I've seen the good sides of them too. they can be really bad but they can also be really wonderful. It's not as if I'm a saint either, I've caused them some heartache too. I know my parents took out the loans innocently and had every intention to pay them but when I came out to them they became angry and decided not to help me. They even told me that I was on my own with the loans since I "decided to be transgender".

I've already considered going bankrupt but student loans can't be erased through bankruptcy except in very rare cases. There are some bills going through congress now though that may change that and allow student loans to be discharged through bankruptcy in the near future so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I don't want to take legal action against my parents either because I know that their intentions were good when they took out the loans plus it would just open up another can of worms that I can't deal with right now. I have most of my loans deferred but the interest on them keeps building and at the rate it's going they'll be upwards of a hundred thosand dollars within just a few years. If I had known they intended to borrow so much I would have stopped them and picked up another job or two to just pay my way through school. It's too late now but I do have a few options that could save me from a life of debt.


Xhianil,

It's okay, I don't feel like anyone's ganging up on me. It's true that I do need to move out but I can't afford to. There's just no way I would be able to afford to pay rent much less basic living expenses for things like food. As soon as I can though, I'll be out of here. I figure that even though my family can be abusive it's better to have a roof over my head than to be out on the streets somewhere. I'm safer living with the dangers I know than the ones I don't.

Do you have no friends at all you can't room with and pay what you can when you can? If not then that really sucks, i hope you find a way, any way, to get outta there.

Quote from: Contravene on November 14, 2013, 10:01:23 PM
I believe that the hearts of religious people can be changed too but that's the problem with trying to changes my family members' hearts, their beliefs aren't entirely motivated by religion and they just won't open their hearts up tp being changed. I can throw knowledge and scripture at them as much as I want but it's like hitting a brick wall, nothing will get through to them until they want it to.

That's so true. I'm a theologian (I only have a Bachelor's degree, though), which means most people have a very hard time "beating" me in a religious debate. But if the subject is controversial to them, the motivation is as you say not entirely religious, it is also emotional and cultural. So when they realize they've lost the debate, they just shut down, stop listening and either repeat their (usually poor) argument, or just say "But I believe that, and you can't decide what I should believe". People like that can't be reasoned with - over time, they may soften and perhaps slowly change their mindset, but it can't be done overnight.

My family is full of religious nuts. It's really, really tough.

Geez, I hate to almost just repeat what other people are saying, but ... you really need to get the hell out of there, even if it isn't the best move financially. Even bankruptcy is better than being dead. Also, you may be able to think more clearly on your own and find that your problems aren't as unsolvable as you think they are when you don't have people screaming at you and threatening to kill you all the time. If your parents physically attack you again, you need to report it to the police. There is zero excuse not to.

I know what it's like to have overly religious family as well. Much of my family is ultra religious. However, I also live away from them.

Get out, even if it means bankruptcy and your transition has to wait a few years. I'd hate to hear your name and obituary read during a future transgender day of remembrance ceremony.