Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone,
   I really wasn't sure where to post this, but I figured it was directed predominately toward MtF TS/TG individuals, so I'd post here and a moderator would move it somewhere better if necessary.
   I was particularly irked by an opinion article at The Transadvocate called Stealth Doesn't Help The Trans Community.  I would normally post the link to the article in question, but I don't want unintentionally violate the TOS links rule.  Google it instead if you want to see the source.  It is merely one of a many divisive articles that marginalize members of the transgender community.
   Essentially, I've become more aware about some transphobia within the LGBT community and it really bothers me.  And now I've accidentally come across a pretty frustrating debate of stealth vs. out.  I was bound to, since the topic interests me, as I have been and will continue to be stealth in some situations, while I will slowly come out to more people I trust.  I'm a long way off from marching or advocacy.  I can't handle being full-time, and I'd be risking backlash that would spill over to my family and a few close friends as well.  And so I spent a great deal of time thinking of a cogent counter argument that I posted as a comment there, but thought I might put here as well in case it might spawn a constructive discussion.


'Stealth' is being thrown around without any context, and I'm either misinterpreting the intent of the aspersion, or it is simply too vague.

At any point in the transition, a transgender person may opt to be stealth in public and out to those they are closest to and trust the most.  Even then, transpeople can be let down by their closest friends and family members who they wanted to have support them.  Asking someone to be mentally prepared and ready for rejection from close ties is hard, but expecting them to deal with the public rejection filled with strangers and acquaintances is silly.  That being said, every TS/TG person should have a support group to help them cope with the garbage they are going to have to endure for simply being themselves.  Logically, this support group would have to be privy to the knowledge that they are TS/TG to be beneficial.  Whether it consists of close friends, or fellow transpeople doesn't really matter because it serves to benefit the members of the group.

Many detractors I have come across have cited transitioning in stealth as either cowardice or lack of commitment.  There are many exigent circumstances that prevent some people from feeling comfortable immediately dressing in their chosen gender's clothing.  Safety is an easy fallback argument, but a stealth transperson could be gainfully employed or supported by bigoted family members / employers.  Eventually during transition, if the person still wants to remain stealth they have to go to a great deal of effort to do so even if they are able to pass when they begin RLE.

Post-transition in stealth can have many benefits if the transperson manages to pass as cisgendered.  Being outed as trans might cause problems for people they care about, and in some cases their family, friends, and loved ones could suffer because of indirect transphobia.  A transperson wanting to start a family with someone by adoption, surrogacy, frozen embryo/sperm in vitro fertilization, might not want to also risk virulent gender politics spilling over into their family discourse.  At least allow their children to become mature enough to fend for themselves before demanding their parents to sacrifice themselves on the altar of politics and advocacy.

I don't think it's selfish to not want to deal with social agendas, political awareness, and combat transphobia.  Isn't it also unfair to demand that a transperson forever dwell on the circumstances of their birth once they are passing and integrated into society?  When would they be allowed to put down the torch and try to find some normalcy?

Admittedly, I'm also throwing stones in glass houses.  As I am posting behind the veil of anonymity, my decanted arguments may not reach your Ivory Tower.  I use a sobriquet for privacy, and I have been transitioning in stealth for many reasons that have nothing to do with selfishness.  My circumstances preclude me from living as I would prefer, but life isn't nor has it ever been fair.

In my opinion it is selfish to censure transpeople who are actively working to improve the LGBT community who are not 'out.'  They are already working to help trans-issues and will probably be more effective working together with any transphobics among the LGBT community if they remain stealth.  Whether or not there are stealth transpeople in GLAAD or the HRC, they should live their lives as they see fit.

I can understand the exasperation that you feel toward our community's relative quiescence.  I've read several annual statistical reports and their analysis about our community / distribution and discrimination / violence toward us.  I can't decide if these reports make me more terrified, angry or sad.  Castigation isn't helpful for our cause or self-esteem as a community.  Brow beating is one of the least effective methods of altering opinions and moving hearts and minds.  Even dog trainers tend to use pattern recognition and positive reinforcement since it is more effective compared to negative reinforcement techniques.  And humans tend to be slightly more complicated and harder to please or convince than the domesticated dog. 

When you essentially insult every stealth transperson, you encourage a reflexively oppositional and defiant attitude toward your point.  Conversely, by instilling confidence and self-acceptance, you can urge transpeople to express themselves in positive ways in the community and to embrace the qualities that make us unique.  Mentors and role models are needed, but a cooperative group ethic is necessary as a firm sediment in order to build a successful movement for any progress for transrights to take hold.  Becoming divisive holds us back, no matter how good your intent.

I believe in advocating human rights and protecting our right to be who we are.  If there were any transpeople that were in the position to help advance transrights and human rights, of course I hope they would.  However they have to judge for themselves what they are willing to risk their anonymity for, and how much public scrutiny they are willing to face.  I hope that while even the LGBT community can be fractal and have discrimination, that we can stick together.  We should stop judging people because they don't live up to unwarranted expectations since we are all in this together; living separate lives with different situations and contexts.

How about we have one less group discriminating against us, and express some Transolidarity



Thanks for reading this far, I just wanted to share  :)

As a general rule, we prefer that the irksome divisive stuff posted on other sites is left on the other sites.  Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 26, 2013, 12:40:26 PM
As a general rule, we prefer that the irksome divisive stuff posted on other sites is left on the other sites.  Hugs, Devlyn

Many members, including myself, don't visit other boards. This is kind of an important topic. Though I do understand what you mean since some people are sooooo emotional. (I'm talking 'bout myself lol)


I am stealthy and will go even more stealthy when possible. I don't feel a need to be public. But I am not going to never tell anyone. I will tell people I trust. Some trans people seem to think this is a political movement and being stealth is the ultimate betrayal of it. I don't feel that way. I loathe trans politics. 

This topic never ends well.  I've been on both sides of this fence, now I just want to stay out of it.  Let all the angry peeps fight it out is my stance.

Like Jen said the topic does cause internal turmoil in the lgbt community. 

I'll just say staying within my family in a semi-stealth transition for about a year made it possible to have a smooth and seamless start to a wonderful RLE.   There's no way I could have been fully out, dealt with the marriage conflicts, and remained steadfast during the adventure.  What took a year may have taken two, five or ten.  But deep down inside every individual knows what's right, and understands when they're ready to come out. 

My two cents:
Do as you please.

I, personally, am in stealth. None of my friends know, none of the people I have "hooked up" with know either. The few who do know have known me from before.
Why am I stealth? I don't want my gender identity to be brought into question at all times. I want to be judged on my own merits. I don't want someone (for example) to read an article I publish in a local (small) paper and have them say to their friends something like "hey, look what that transsexual wrote!" I also do not want to be the center of attention for my Y chromosome.

On the flip side, I also do not want to be in a position where my trans status gives me an unfair advantage. For example, I would not want a few LGB friends of mine to suddenly have a new level of respect for me because they now know I was assigned male at birth. I do not want them to think of me as some sort of grand figure who overcame such great odds. I just want to be a normal every day girl. Ok, maybe I want to be extraordinary but thats not the point of my post here.  :laugh:  >:-)

One thing is for certain though. When the time comes I will have to disclose. And I will do so with pride. Whether if I one day become the famous writer/presenter I strive to be, or when I meet that special someone whom I would wish to share my life with. Even when I need to go see a new family doctor. Those times, in my opinion, will be a good (great) time to disclose and let the world know how much of a wonderful person you are, what it took for you to get to where you are, and only then after you have something in your life to boast of other than being trans can you truly be an inspiration to others.

Just my $.02

Quote from: missy1992 on July 26, 2013, 01:55:52 PM
I don't want someone (for example) to read an article I publish in a local (small) paper and have them say to their friends something like "hey, look what that transsexual wrote!" I also do not want to be the center of attention for my Y chromosome

Are you a professional writer/editor too? I loove being a journalist but it is bringing me such turmoil cause of my name. People think I'm a woman when talking to them and then boom, I publish under a male name. I don't know what to do. Just the other day I was talking to a rep from the City Council and he was talking to someone and was referring to me as he and the guy he was talking to obviously thought I was female by the confused look on his face. Any suggestions?

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 26, 2013, 02:00:22 PM
Are you a professional writer/editor too? I loove being a journalist but it is bringing me such turmoil cause of my name. People think I'm a woman when talking to them and then boom, I publish under a male name. I don't know what to do. Just the other day I was talking to a rep from the City Council and he was talking to someone and was referring to me as he and the guy he was talking to obviously thought I was female by the confused look on his face. Any suggestions?

Joanna I am in a different place from you. I am only now starting to make a name for myself as a female and I can sympathize with you being trans and all. I have a lot of (good) work published under my male name. Writings that I am proud of. I don't know if I should include them in CVs because I do not want the situation to be awkward when looking for a job or applying into (another) university.

Off the top of my head what I could suggest is start over. Make a name for yourself under your female alias. I would imagine you have friends who would help you out here (in referring to you with the proper pronouns, getting you work etc).

Take my advice with a grain of salt. I have no idea how old you are or what your prior work looks like. If you are older and have a good name for yourself from before I can only suggest you "own your trans-ness."

Quote from: missy1992 on July 26, 2013, 02:06:19 PM
I have no idea how old you are or what your prior work looks like. If you are older and have a good name for yourself from before I can only suggest you "own your trans-ness."

It depends what you consider old. I think I'm old. I'm 30. Okay I'm 31 now. ACK! I have been doing this for seven years. I was a women's magazine editor for five or six years and a product editor of a trade publication and now a freelance writer. I really just want to start over so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and applying to Penn and going to grad school to get my PhD in Modern Lit. Penn is all about diversity and seems to be very inclusive of trans women--and they will pay for my surgery!

When I worked for the women's mag the AD referred to me by a feminized version of my name which is only used by females and I should have said something like I want to be known by that name. I knew I was going to transition and was planning it then but things happened but I wish I did that. Ugh.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 26, 2013, 02:15:00 PM
It depends what you consider old. I think I'm old. I'm 30. Okay I'm 31 now. ACK! I have been doing this for seven years. I was a women's magazine editor for five or six years and a product editor of a trade publication and now a freelance writer. I really just want to start over so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and applying to Penn and going to grad school to get my PhD in Modern Lit. Penn is all about diversity and seems to be very inclusive of trans women--and they will pay for my surgery!

Get on it girl! Really, now would be the best time. And 31 is not old. Age is only a number!
Really, think of ways to "reinvent" yourself and pursuing further education would be key to that in my opinion. Might as well start a new now eh? As good a time as ever.

I never understood why someone would care one way or another about another persons personal life so deeply.  Stealth or not is irrelevant to me.  If you want to be out and proud for your whole life, go for it.  If you want to be stealth,  then do that.  It's not anyone's business besides the individual themselves.   I too bemoan when an in group tries ti define the correct lifestyle for someone within the community.   Different strokes for different folks.  I will choose stealth in the furure and it is my right as it is anyone else's to be out.

There is no 'right' or 'wronge' way to live YOUR life and each person should proceed as they deem best for themselves.   Some of us choose to be active and out in the fight for rights, that is a choice we make for ourselves with some doing it their whole lives while others participate for a period of time before settling into their life off the radar.  I can only speak for myself, I do know others feel the same though,  in that nothing is expected in return and all I hope for is that it may make someone else's life, transition, safer and easier.   


We are a diverse community in and of ourselves thusly as such all persons are equally important in it's makeup with none more or less valid then the rest.  Our solidarity to one another is that WE choose to live OUR life.

Quote from: Lorri Kat on July 26, 2013, 06:30:46 PM
There is no 'right' or 'wronge' way to live YOUR life and each person should proceed as they deem best for themselves.   

True words.

Nonetheless, I think a discussion of stealth vs. out living is very appropriate here, and I do hope it doesn't get locked because someone says something mean.

Susan's is a place where I benefit from reading the life experiences of those who've come before. It would be very useful to me to understand how it feels to live stealth from the point of view of someone who lives it (especially since I'm transitioning on my job, so the knowledge that I'm Trans will always be out there) and understanding life as an out transgender person would be useful too.

I've had a wee taste of stealth from the divorced/separated support group I belong to. I have told no one I'm transgender and let people draw their own conclusions. For the first few weeks I was able to maintain the charade. But it's hard (spelled i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e) to talk much about divorce without letting a gendered pronoun or two slip about my spouse. Once that had happened, other people started using those pronouns to refer to my spouse when talking to me, so the information spread quickly.

So I've copped to being queer, but have told no one the story of how I ended up married to a woman (for 20 years when same sex marriage in our state is only months old). Have some people figured it out? Is that the reason why many of the other women in the group freely pass phone numbers amongst themselves and basically ignore me?

As long as I'm stealth there, I have to not know and not care.

Quote from: suzifrommd on July 26, 2013, 08:14:27 PM
True words.

Nonetheless, I think a discussion of stealth vs. out living is very appropriate here, and I do hope it doesn't get locked because someone says something mean.

Susan's is a place where I benefit from reading the life experiences of those who've come before. It would be very useful to me to understand how it feels to live stealth from the point of view of someone who lives it (especially since I'm transitioning on my job, so the knowledge that I'm Trans will always be out there) and understanding life as an out transgender person would be useful too.

I've had a wee taste of stealth from the divorced/separated support group I belong to. I have told no one I'm transgender and let people draw their own conclusions. For the first few weeks I was able to maintain the charade. But it's hard (spelled i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e) to talk much about divorce without letting a gendered pronoun or two slip about my spouse. Once that had happened, other people started using those pronouns to refer to my spouse when talking to me, so the information spread quickly.

So I've copped to being queer, but have told no one the story of how I ended up married to a woman (for 20 years when same sex marriage in our state is only months old). Have some people figured it out? Is that the reason why many of the other women in the group freely pass phone numbers amongst themselves and basically ignore me?

As long as I'm stealth there, I have to not know and not care.

It is a very appropriate topic.  It's something that everybody that transitions has to give some serious heart-searching thought to, and it is so so so helpful to get thoughts from others going through the same thing or, better yet, who have already been through it and have actual wisdom to pass on.  Sometimes, when you get lucky, you can get a few pages of helpful discussion before the angry people sweep in and make a fight out of it and it gets locked.  It is inevitable.  Please prove me wrong.  Seriously, please do.  I would be so proud of this community if it has matured past that ridiculousness.

The tricky problem between LGB and TG, is LGB is about sexuality and you can be LGor B and not need to worry about it as the physical level.

Being TG is often simply a physical level barrier and it's not something we can just casually not mention and not need to be concerned about being detected.

I'm all for LGB rights, but really, I am not one of them in that my problem is I was given the wrong form at birth and yippee friggin hurrah, and it's not about my sexual preferences. I can't casually hide my secret. It's not the same as concealing who you want in your bed.

That is fundamentally the hell of being TG. The only way a LGB person could really understand our lives is to be told 'look you will need to NOT have sex the way you would like it in order to maintain the illusion you are not LGor B'. I don't think they would be so happy if they were told they had to have sex that was the reverse of their preference and then go and say they liked it even when they didn't. Of course this comment lacks value for B people I suppose, they can enjoy ether, so not really relevant there.

The moment I walk out the door as me, I am basically out.
We don't get to hide. There is no hiding if you are TG unless you flat out deny yourself.
The only TG people enjoying stealth mode, are the ones blessed with the ability we all dream of.
Sorry for the LGB portion of LGBTG, but, I have no desire to take that success from my fellow TG persons.

If you are being utterly successful at passing, you stay passing, and you enjoy passing, and if anyone has a problem with it, too bad.
If the day ever comes, when I can pass utterly, I plan to do it.
And the only support the LGB portion of LGBTG that will be coming from me, will be me as a 'cis female' that is supportive of those persons.

My dream, is to be regarded as my little sister's older sister. I have lived a life of being told we look alike. I want it to be so much more than that.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on July 26, 2013, 09:47:56 PM
The tricky problem between LGB and TG, is LGB is about sexuality and you can be LGor B and not need to worry about it as the physical level.

Being TG is often simply a physical level barrier and it's not something we can just casually not mention and not need to be concerned about being detected.

I'm all for LGB rights, but really, I am not one of them in that my problem is I was given the wrong form at birth and yippee friggin hurrah, and it's not about my sexual preferences. I can't casually hide my secret. It's not the same as concealing who you want in your bed.

That is fundamentally the hell of being TG. The only way a LGB person could really understand our lives is to be told 'look you will need to NOT have sex the way you would like it in order to maintain the illusion you are not LGor B'. I don't think they would be so happy if they were told they had to have sex that was the reverse of their preference and then go and say they liked it even when they didn't. Of course this comment lacks value for B people I suppose, they can enjoy ether, so not really relevant there.

The moment I walk out the door as me, I am basically out.
We don't get to hide. There is no hiding if you are TG unless you flat out deny yourself.
The only TG people enjoying stealth mode, are the ones blessed with the ability we all dream of.
Sorry for the LGB portion of LGBTG, but, I have no desire to take that success from my fellow TG persons.

If you are being utterly successful at passing, you stay passing, and you enjoy passing, and if anyone has a problem with it, too bad.
If the day ever comes, when I can pass utterly, I plan to do it.
And the only support the LGB portion of LGBTG that will be coming from me, will be me as a 'cis female' that is supportive of those persons.

My dream, is to be regarded as my little sister's older sister. I have lived a life of being told we look alike. I want it to be so much more than that.

I agree wholeheartedly, if I can at some point successfully blend in with cisgendered people while supporting the LGBT community, I'll be over the moon.  I wouldn't be willing to lie about who I am if someone asked me point blank, but I don't plan on advertising my trans status to the world.  Not everyone can be Harvey Milk.  Each of us can choose to what degree we are 'out,' but I believe we can be proud of simply being true to ourselves.

Quote from: Obfuskatie on July 26, 2013, 12:32:29 PM
Hi
   I was particularly irked by an opinion article at The Transadvocate called Stealth Doesn't Help The Trans Community.

I read that article yesterday and felt the same way you did. It seems like most of the people with this attitude are the ones that have little chance if any to pass and want everyone else to suffer their lot.  I haven't noticed any trans activist that were "out and proud" that were passable. I may very well be wrong on that one but just going by personal observation.

I sometimes wonder if a T is welcome in the LGBT community. I mean all the gains LBGT has made, many of those gains have benefited gays rather than transgenders. Transgender people still have many hurdles whilst in my own country (UK) it seems that to be gay is practically a non issue now.

Lesley : I am bisexual (as well as trans) and I have to say, it DOES feel like being closeted to pretend I'm only interested in one gender of partner. Interestingly, it's harder and feels more like lying to present as monosexual than as cis; I do live as a woman, I genuinely am one, and that's that. I'm a woman with a past that I don't make any particular effort to conceal, but my orientation is an "active," ongoing situation. Not mentioning that I transitioned is easy enough in discussions about which movie stars are hot and whatnot, but hiding that I liked the male and female lead both is trickier. So I guess my point is that being bi is actually a bigger deal to me in casual conversation these days. ;)

(I don't really have a side in the stealth argument, which does tend to get ugly. I live sort of "half-out"; some people know because they knew me before and/or recognize me from things I published back then, I don't try to curb gossip or break links to my past, but I'm also not announcing it at every possible opportunity because I'm a shy person anyway and that feels seriously weird. I also don't really like the term "passing," because to me it suggests that I'm fooling people - I prefer to think of myself as "blending in." But then again, I'm so shy I'd rather blend into the crowd in ANY situation!)

I do find the notion of Trans-solidarity unpleasant and inaccurate, In my transition I operated under the fundamental presumption that I have no allies and no rescue is coming if I fall then game over, because that's been my experience, the NHS ignored me, I lost family, Friends, was threatened with violence and was nearly made homeless. And I don't pretend that I had it the worst. Not by a mile.

While you can find supportive words or words of admonishment from other transgender individuals for the choices your make, ultimately you have to fight with whatever you've got to realize your victory. Stealth or Self-medication, whatever.
That the game princess, No rules, Play to win.

If it's the topic of stealth, I've been stealth under certain contexts for various periods of time, Again presumption of begin alone in a potentially hostile environment applies and this environment might well be your home or your workplace. If the option is available to you, Be stealth at least until you can trust the environment.

While I feel sympathy for other transpersons who don't have the choice it's still your life not theirs. If you trust the environment and the Stress of Stealth (Redacting your past is a pain) gets to you, Then tell them and be a positive role model for what might be there first knowing encounter with a transsexual.

But you don't owe anyone anything, You don't owe bigots an education, nor are you a martyr for "the collective"

I have decided I need to be stealth , and my reason is that I was the victim of a hate crime - I think that is sufficient

Quote from: vegie271 on July 28, 2013, 04:39:54 PM


I have decided I need to be stealth , and my reason is that I was the victim of a hate crime - I think that is sufficient

And honestly, you don't even really need a reason to do so either, although yours is more than understandable.   


And really, we ask others to allow us to live our lives as we see fit, to make ourselves happy, yet too many in our community want to tell their peers how they should live and its pretty damned hypocritical from where I stand. I have no issue with anyone being stealth or out or whatever, so long as they don't expect others to jump on their wagon due to some sense of "community." 

I do applaud those who choose to educate, but some of us just aren't into that. Although I do feel I am out enough that people can see that I am nothing to fear and that transpeople are just as human as they are.

Quote from: pebbles on July 28, 2013, 04:02:09 PM
I do find the notion of Trans-solidarity unpleasant and inaccurate, In my transition I operated under the fundamental presumption that I have no allies and no rescue is coming if I fall then game over, because that's been my experience, the NHS ignored me, I lost family, Friends, was threatened with violence and was nearly made homeless. And I don't pretend that I had it the worst. Not by a mile.

While you can find supportive words or words of admonishment from other transgender individuals for the choices your make, ultimately you have to fight with whatever you've got to realize your victory. Stealth or Self-medication, whatever.
That the game princess, No rules, Play to win.

If it's the topic of stealth, I've been stealth under certain contexts for various periods of time, Again presumption of begin alone in a potentially hostile environment applies and this environment might well be your home or your workplace. If the option is available to you, Be stealth at least until you can trust the environment.

While I feel sympathy for other transpersons who don't have the choice it's still your life not theirs. If you trust the environment and the Stress of Stealth (Redacting your past is a pain) gets to you, Then tell them and be a positive role model for what might be there first knowing encounter with a transsexual.

But you don't owe anyone anything, You don't owe bigots an education, nor are you a martyr for "the collective"

So. so much truth in this.

I not sure if I really have the right to voice my opinion on this, I am still on the first stages of self discovery of my gender.

I would think that people who are fighting for rights for transgendered would be better off not spending effort to criticize stealth people, it is devisive and counterproductive. In some cases I would assume that being open can harm the cause.

Quote from: White Rabbit on July 28, 2013, 08:43:07 PM
I not sure if I really have the right to voice my opinion on this, I am still on the first stages of self discovery of my gender.

I would think that people who are fighting for rights for transgendered would be better off not spending effort to criticize stealth people, it is devisive and counterproductive. In some cases I would assume that being open can harm the cause.

I do not think being OPEN is harmful, it is those who are "In your face" about it that is harmful, anyone who tries to make is something really political and tries to shove it down someone's throat, very few do that, but if any one forces someone elses opinion on anyone else, it causes repercussions

so I have no problem with anyone else being out - as long as they have no problem with me being stealth - it is just that some of the really political ones want all of us to be marching at the forefront and I cannot do that - especially in my area. I am just to scared (and a little gun shy now, I used to actually be political)

Oh please don't get me wrong with  the people who are out. With out them there would be even less rights for transgendered people, they are fighting the good fight.
My thoughts are sometimes in conservative areas that are either isolated or close minded and it got around that someone was transgendered in their community then instead of being a "big city problem", it becomes personal. When they see transgendered people on tv  it is easier for people to become more accustomed to the lifestyle but when the lifestyle is right there "influencing"  their kids that can cement very negative views towards the transgendered community. All of this just by being open in a small or isolated community.

Or say take a country where being open just helps the religious police find you easier. People being open is helpful to the community but I am sure there are instances where the opposite is also true maybe not many but some.

I feel that there's a number of activists in the LGBT community who really need to step back and consider developing a new strategy based on a simple choice - do I want to be seen as part of the struggle or do I want to be seen as part of the solution?

I'm out, or rather, open. I'm comfortable with being a trans woman, I don't feel any stigma from being trans and my own activism is entirely focussed outside the trans community.

People who are vulnerable, struggling or suffering generally tend to be much more open-minded and accepting. This gives me the opportunity to use empathy to show that despite the fact that they are cisgendered and I am trans we share the same feelings, emotions, thoughts and experiences.

Adversity marks our life just as easily as success. We remember those who helped us just as well as we remember our own achievements. In helping others I am repaying my debts of kindness to a world which has produced enough people to show me kindness.

I'm not stealth and never will be. I don't need to be. But for those of you who are I fully support you. Stealth is a universal fact of nature. That's why polar bears are white, snakes which live in trees are green and most large cats are agile.

If stealth makes it easier for you to live, or transition or both, then I feel you owe it to yourself to go stealth. My morality or that of other people doesn't come into it. We are not you. We don't live your life. You do.

QuoteYou don't owe anyone anything, You don't owe bigots an education, nor are you a martyr for "the collective."

Wow! This is such a heavy and confusing question. I'm in stealth myself, I guess, because anyone who's met me a 22 months ago or less think I've always been female, but I'm unashamed anymore that I'm transsexual. I came out to the rest of my family and friends, but my mom, dad and brother knew about me since I was born, my mom believing I was intersexed at birth. And virtually all my close friends have known about me too, since I was 14-17 and I'll be 59 soon. I was bisexual (not with any of my friends, though) and had a boyfriend by 21, but I always, always dressed, looked and behaved as a woman with him, in public and private, always passing effortlessly, and I'm clueless as to why I didn't transition at 22 when I first began to. I think I was just ashamed of myself that I looked and felt so much like a girl that i just couldn't pull the trigger permanently. Now I pass wherever I go and I don't see a reason for me to announce that I'm TS. However, I was sooo angry when that young TS woman was beaten in Hollywood by four douchebags on Memorial Day weekend I had wanted to go to the TG festival in West Hollywood to sort of show solidarity, but everything changed when my brother slowly died from a liver transplant right at the border of West Hollywood right during that time and it felt inappropriate to go. Then again, I'm treated by other women as one of them and I don't want to change that. All I've ever wanted was to be a girl/woman anyway, so why would I out myself? In another post on this thread someone said that it seemed to them that most of the political TG community couldn't pass anyway, but I don't know about that, one way or another. I feel terribly sad for anyone who can't pass and it angers me a great deal that they can't live their lives however they want. This is a subject, a question I was obviously confused about that my attempts at living male were so spectacularly unsuccessful I tried to commit suicide three times. Thank God I was unsuccessful there as well, because after the third time I decided that I (finally) had to attempt to live as a woman and I've succeeded. Not spectacularly, but quietly, stealthily and thankfully. Am I wrong for doing that? Mira

I am in transition and stealth.

Perhaps, the reason activists are so passionate is that they believe in their beliefs and there are too few of us. So one stealth is one less activist and with low numbers it is a dilemma.

I realize what I want most. To be left alone, from myself; the battles are tiring. Stealth is a battle too; easy now but I suspect harder in time.

Quote from: White Rabbit on July 29, 2013, 08:31:34 AM
... When they see transgendered people on tv  it is easier for people to become more accustomed to the lifestyle but when the lifestyle is right there "influencing"  their kids that can cement very negative views towards the transgendered community. All of this just by being open in a small or isolated community.

I live in a village of 500 residents, and nearly everyone has met me before transition.  And now they see me only as my true self in the second month of RLE.  I go almost anywhere in this town and the larger neighboring communities (also small towns of 5000), but there is a little tension, and a few stores, restaurants, and bars that are off limits.   

I can no longer live stealth like I did last summer, and I wouldn't want to.  I'm not an activist, and made a personal decision to live stealth when I was able to.   And I would never want to see others forced into the open in a small town like this, since it's often very uncomfortable.  So after the last two months I understand why most trans people leave these small communities for larger towns or cities with large accepting populations.   And this is why a lot of transwomen and men leave for San Francisco where they and others can safely be activists if they desire. 

Grishno @ Trans March 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElDrA3WyxM#)

Quote from: kathyk on July 30, 2013, 11:54:17 PM
I live in a village of 500 residents, and nearly everyone has met me before transition.  And now they see me only as my true self in the second month of RLE.  I go almost anywhere in this town and the larger neighboring communities (also small towns of 5000), but there is a little tension, and a few stores, restaurants, and bars that are off limits.   

I can no longer live stealth like I did last summer, and I wouldn't want to.  I'm not an activist, and made a personal decision to live stealth when I was able to.   And I would never want to see others forced into the open in a small town like this, since it's often very uncomfortable.  So after the last two months I understand why most trans people leave these small communities for larger towns or cities with large accepting populations.   And this is why a lot of transwomen and men leave for San Francisco where they and others can safely be activists if they desire. 

Grishno @ Trans March 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CElDrA3WyxM#)

Kathy, you've got courage I don't think I'd have. I lived in a small town in Washington for over a year, a town of 1800, much bigger than your little village, lol, but I would have had to move or probably be beaten to an inch of my life. It was a logging town and those guys were cool with me at the time, but they wouldn't have been if they saw me now. One of them actually tried to get to know me in stealth, but it was a redneck town. I'm not bragging when I say this because it's true, I was actually prettier than most of the girls in that town. But I was only 33 to 34 then and was often told by girls I was too pretty to be a guy and I hadn't yet abused my body much. There were a lot of drugs and drinking with the women there because there was nothing to do and it deeply affected the way many of them looked and took care of themselves. It was a beautiful place to live, though.  If they saw me here in front of the computer in a dress and makeup I think I'd have to move back to L.A. tonight.