Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I feel like there's a lot of misinformation out there about lower surgery. There was one person who keeps saying the same information on a site that keeps bugging me. He says you have no sensation with phalloplasty (false), phalloplasty costs $300,000 (also false), and that surgical options are not satisfying. I feel as though the options that are out there look pretty darn good. I think that the reason why people think the options don't look good is because a lot of pictures out there are a few days, maybe a week post op. I mean, if all people ever saw of post-top pictures was about a week post op, nobody would want it.

What information about bottom surgery (meta/phallo/cent) do you think trans men should know? What information out there do you feel misrepresents the outcomes?

And really...how much does surgery cost? I was thinking $30,000 for phalloplasty with implants, and urethral lengthening.

That price seems to be on the low end, but I suppose there are so many factors to consider that estimates can vary widely. I was seeing numbers closer to double that for the whole shebang, but that probably includes hysto and a penile pump as well--and I don't know how accurate my "information" is. I was expecting three surgeries total, barring complications; two would likely reduce the price a bit.

Honestly, I don't know. I'm hoping to get a particular job in a year and get my surgery covered by insurance. If not, I don't even want to think about it. I'm saving as much as I can while still living single and having my own place. But if I don't get the job, I will need some of that money for living expenses and possibly a replacement car while I plan my next move. I don't want to blow all of my savings on a penis. I am not happy as I am, but I can hold on quite a bit longer than I have.

Maybe someone with time on his hands could get estimates from most of the prominent surgeons.

Well, surely phalloplasty doesn't cost $300,000, right? I was looking on transbucket for info, and a lot of the prices for phallo were $20k-$50k with everything. Meta I know can go as low as $3k for the bare minimum of what is possible.

I don't know where you got your info from. My looking around got me from 20k for meta to about 55k for full phallo.

Quote from: chipper on August 03, 2013, 02:29:36 PM
On a side note, I might be hesitant to post completed pictures of my junk on the internet. Despite the best of intentions, pictures and information often gets into the wrong hands. After surgery, I'd want to carry on with living... educating others on the internet probably wouldn't be a high priority. Sad but true.

You mean like when Buck Angel posted a trans guy's post op dick on twitter as a reason why surgery is terrible?

I agree a bit with that, if I were to be the kind of person who wants lower surgery I probably wouldn't want to interact with the community. Especially because a lot of the community has such negative feelings towards people who get bottom surgery.

Quote from: LordKAT on August 03, 2013, 02:34:03 PM
I don't know where you got your info from. My looking around got me from 20k for meta to about 55k for full phallo.

Transbucket has a few dollar (and euro) amounts for lower surgery. I saw a few phallos for $25k-$70k. I know that a simple release is about $3k.

Never said I looked extensively. Some prices were not all inclusive.  None were near 300k.

I've seen a couple of guys quoting up to $75,000-80,000. One, I remember, was German or went to a German doctor and supposedly had a Cadillac version of phallo. (Or was it Japan? Damnit!)

With SERIOUS complications, perhaps the surgery can exceed $100,000, but I've never heard such a price quoted for a regular, successful phallo with few to no complications.

When I first got my copy of Lou Sullivan's FTM book--then in its second edition--I was dismayed at the phallo photos. Those surgeries had to have been performed before 1990, I think, since Sullivan died around then (1989, I think). In fact, he might have simply reproduced even older photos from the first edition. The surgeons have had an additional 35+ years to improve their techniques, and I have seen quite a few phallo pics online that look pretty damned good--especially when I compare them to the state of the art ca. 1990 and earlier.

I feel that a lot of the misinformation comes from, or is started by, trans men who do not want phallo. I imagine that some of them have seen some bad photos (as I did back in the nineties) or seen pics from right after surgery or simply heard uncorroborated stories. But then there's the sour grapes issue. Many trans men get defensive about not getting bottom surgery. I have run into guys who clearly WOULD get some kind of bottom surgery if it were covered by insurance, but they get so negative and defensive about how horrible the results are that I think, "Okay, that's sour grapes talking." I expect that some of these men truly feel incomplete without a more average penis, but they have built walls around their desires and want to attack anyone who wants phallo (or even meta) or anyone who, heaven forbid, is able to actually have the procedure. I expect that there's a lot of anger and envy in some of these guys.

But not all, I must reiterate.

I have also run into men from lesbian communities who are not only anti-penis but simply anti-male. They have issues of their own, and I wonder whether some of them are spreading misinformation.

Also, there aren't many pictures out there. Some guys could run into one photo and base their entire impression of phallo from that one picture.

I suspect that in most cases, Chipper is closest to the truth. There simply isn't a lot of info out there, and it gets passed around by hearsay until it becomes the dominant story. I am a member of a Yahoo surgery group. I think that joining similar groups and getting info from them would be more accurate than rooting around the Internets.

You will not lose sensation with Phalloplasty. You merely retain full sensation with medioplasty and probably retained 70-90% sensation with phallo.

And no,phallo doesn't cost $300K unless the surgeon promise you a gold penis.  :laugh:  I reckon some people opt for medio because they did not research surgeons around the world. Phalloplasty will cost you between $10k -$50K depending on the country and method used.

Last but not least, a ftm penis might not be 100% realistic but you can get a decent looking one. The photos posted online are scaring people off phalloplasty. I say do your research, get a good surgeon,weigh your pros and cons.  :)

Quote from: Arch on August 03, 2013, 04:17:53 PM

I feel that a lot of the misinformation comes from, or is started by, trans men who do not want phallo. I imagine that some of them have seen some bad photos (as I did back in the nineties) or seen pics from right after surgery or simply heard uncorroborated stories. But then there's the sour grapes issue. Many trans men get defensive about not getting bottom surgery. I have run into guys who clearly WOULD get some kind of bottom surgery if it were covered by insurance, but they get so negative and defensive about how horrible the results are that I think, "Okay, that's sour grapes talking." I expect that some of these men truly feel incomplete without a more average penis, but they have built walls around their desires and want to attack anyone who wants phallo (or even meta) or anyone who, heaven forbid, is able to actually have the procedure. I expect that there's a lot of anger and envy in some of these guys.

My sentiments exactly! I have met guys who did medio because they can't afford phallo. They are constantly attacking people who did phallo and listing reasons why phallo isn't good. If they had the money, I know they will prefer phallo. There are those who are too afraid to go for bottom surgery and they criticise others who went for it. It's fine for me if people wants to keep their vaginas. I just wish they will stop moaning in general.

Quote from: Arch on August 03, 2013, 04:17:53 PM

. But then there's the sour grapes issue. Many trans men get defensive about not getting bottom surgery. I have run into guys who clearly WOULD get some kind of bottom surgery if it were covered by insurance, but they get so negative and defensive about how horrible the results are that I think, "Okay, that's sour grapes talking." I expect that some of these men truly feel incomplete without a more average penis, but they have built walls around their desires and want to attack anyone who wants phallo (or even meta) or anyone who, heaven forbid, is able to actually have the procedure. I expect that there's a lot of anger and envy in some of these guys.

But not all, I must reiterate.

I've never thought of it from this perspective.

And I wish people would realize that you CAN be satisfied with a meta, and that cis guys also can have very small penises, and they deal with them, too (I've dated a few of them).  Better to have A penis than NO penis, IMO.  If you can pee through it and have an orgasm, it's all good.  Would I like a 6" dick?  Sure. But that's not going to happen for a variety of reasons so I'm thrilled beyond belief to have my full hookup meta with implants.

Quote from: sneakersjay on August 15, 2013, 09:42:25 AM
And I wish people would realize that you CAN be satisfied with a meta,

I think trans guys mostly praise meta and diss phallo instead of the other way around.

I think I've been tainted by my experiences with partners who have full-size equipment. If I had a choice between meta and no surgery, I would obviously choose meta. But if I can have phallo, I don't think I'll be happy with meta. I haven't absolutely decided what I'm going to do, but I might be one of those guys who wouldn't be happy with meta unless it were the only option. Then maybe I would make my peace with it.

I don't know, I don't know...

Meta was the only option for me as a) I can't afford phallo; b) can't afford the time off work for all of the multiple phases of phallo; c) scarring from phallo I'm not too keen on, seeing how I really dislike my top surgery scars and the associated numbness that persists in spots; d) more potential for complications (and thus increased costs and time off of work to deal with those), and e) this is the biggie: recovery time.  I've had lots of surgeries in my lifespan. Yes, I'm older but I'm in decent shape and very healthy.  Recovery from meta was a total bitch.  The procedure itself wasn't painful; actually Tylenol was all I really needed.  But it knocked me off my feet the way no other surgery has done. Not hysto. Not top surgery. Not some abdominal surgery I had in the past. Physically it took a lot out of me, and I am not wimpy, not a complainer, and can deal with just about anything health/pain-wise.

I just can't imagine at this stage in my life going through more surgery for a phallo, even though I have seen some excellent results that are soooo awesome I would love to have that in my pants.  Heck, ideally I need a few revisions and I'm not even overly excited about doing that.  I guess that I have been so happy to have my little dick that the thought of more surgery isn't at the top of my priority list.

I realize that this is just my personal experience and everyone has different needs with regards to what they need to relieve their dysphoria.  Getting a meta doesn't mean you can't get a phallo later.  It just means more money and more surgery and more recovery time.

Now, if phallo could have been done in one stage with minimal scarring I might have gone that route first...

Jay

Oh, and Arch, I hear ya on cis partners and their standard-issue equipment.  And the funny thing is, I used to think I needed one of us, at least, to have standard issue equipment.  But I currently find myself drooling over a trans guy... and I don't give a crap about what is in his pants AT ALL.  Shocking for me to realize that, since I really like dick!!


Jay

A lot of the misinformation has already been stated, but the ones that I dislike the most are the claims that it doesn't look "real" and the claims that it has no sensation. A bit of deeper research would show that's not the case at all. I've seen some really amazing looking results. And I have heard more guys than not say that they have sensation in their phallus.

I think Arch has hit the nail on the head. I think a lot of it is defensiveness about not wanting bottom surgery. But it's a crappy thing to do. Here they are saying this about real men who have gone through all the expense and time of getting this surgery to help themselves feel complete, and then there are people openly dissing this surgery and how it looks. They forget there is a human being with feelings behind those pictures, and someone who has suffered a lot of pain because of their GID in their past, and now has a chance to feel normal and happy with themselves.

Quote from: Nygeel on August 02, 2013, 09:09:55 PM
I feel like there's a lot of misinformation out there about lower surgery. There was one person who keeps saying the same information on a site that keeps bugging me. He says you have no sensation with phalloplasty (false), phalloplasty costs $300,000 (also false), and that surgical options are not satisfying. I feel as though the options that are out there look pretty darn good. I think that the reason why people think the options don't look good is because a lot of pictures out there are a few days, maybe a week post op. I mean, if all people ever saw of post-top pictures was about a week post op, nobody would want it.

What information about bottom surgery (meta/phallo/cent) do you think trans men should know? What information out there do you feel misrepresents the outcomes?

And really...how much does surgery cost? I was thinking $30,000 for phalloplasty with implants, and urethral lengthening.

Well, the 300k thing isn't that far off. Thats around what mine came to because of my complications (got and infection, needed another surgery, and an extra week in the hospital). And that was only my first stage. Without my complications it would have been between 70-100k, but im not sure i havent seperated out the bills yet. Luckily almost all of it was covered under my insurance.
What do I think trans men should know?

• be realistic, you arent going to look like a pornstar. most often cis cocks aren't perfect either.
• It hurts like hell (or at least phallo does). My phallo was triple the pain of my hysto. I wish i was a little more prepared for that.
• phalloplasty has sensation. Depending on your choice of procedure you could very well have full erotic sensation to the tip.
• Complications can happen. You aren't invincible.
• keep in mind a lot of the results online are old or only first stage results. THey look a lot different (better) once completed and healed. and most men wont even post their results because of the crap talk that they get on the internet
• there's rumors going around that most men who have bottom surgery are unsatisfied with their results. Here's some numbers that say otherwise "98% of those having phalloplasty in the UK judged their appearance as good or excellent." I can also say I have never talked to a man who wouldn't do it over again.

I think a lot of misinformation out there is: no sensation, unable to penetrate, doesn't look real, doesn't feel real (where does that one even come from? i doubt any trans man will let someone who bashes bottom surgery to touch their penis), and that you cannot orgasm after surgery. I think a lot of the trans men who say they don't look real have never seen a penis in real life before. They don't look like they do in porn.
As for the price, definitely not 30k. I already said the cost of mine. I'd say on average the cost without complications falls in the 50-100k range.

Quote from: Nygeel on August 03, 2013, 03:12:13 PM

You mean like when Buck Angel posted a trans guy's post op dick on twitter as a reason why surgery is terrible?

That's unfortunate if that happened. He doesn't need a reason to justify not wanting surgery.

Or a form of scare tactic in order to maybe..idk scare people from taking that step and maybe thinking twice about transition all together.I know the costs I have written down and searched myself was 20-50k or so *but thats for what im expecting* so for me,i hate to think what unknowing people think when they read such false info

Quote from: sneakersjay on August 15, 2013, 03:41:54 PM
Recovery from meta was a total bitch.  The procedure itself wasn't painful; actually Tylenol was all I really needed.  But it knocked me off my feet the way no other surgery has done.

Jay, how long was your recovery time, exactly? How did you feel at a week after surgery, two weeks, a month?

1-2 weeks I felt like I had been hit by a Mack truck.  No real pain, per se, but physically wiped out.  Better weeks 3-4, by 6 weeks pretty good.  Just discomfort sitting.  It took me 4 months to fully heal as one of my incisions took FOREVER to heal.


Jay

Thanks, Jay. I tend to be slow to recover, so I figured I should allow about six weeks before going back to work. It sounds like I made a fairly accurate estimate.

I will have to schedule my surgeries very carefully during academic breaks. I hate to take summers off (or partly off) because I would lose a lot of money, but I don't think a three-week winter break will give me enough recovery time. If I don't get this job, it's a moot point anyway. Even if the surgeries are covered by insurance at my part-time job (the laws just changed in CA), I won't be able to afford to take a few consecutive summers off. I suppose I would go for a meta in that case, but only if I could get everything done in one go. I could take the hit for one summer, maybe. But I have a long way to go before I need to start planning.

I was hit pretty hard by top surgery. I was taking daily naps for about three weeks, and then I skipped a couple because I was volunteering at Pride (I know, smart decision), but I took naps every day or two for a week or so after that because I was still pretty tired. But I went to therapy and men's group five days after the surgery. Doing these things was a bit of a stretch, but I did them. I don't think I would be able to after bottom surgery.

I bounced back pretty easily from top surgery and hysto, other than lifting.  I traveled 3 weeks after hysto but bad idea to carry a laptop.

I took 8 weeks off after bottom surgery and needed it mostly because there is no good place to sit at work.  Even at 8 weeks it was a bit difficult but manageable.  A lot will depend on your job.  But yeah, the first month you will be seriously recovering, and the next few weeks after that you'll need to fully recover, barring any complications, obviously.

You will need a lot of rest, esp the first few weeks.  Sitting is hard, but you really can't do much else.


Jay

Quote from: sneakersjay on October 26, 2013, 10:02:27 AM
You will need a lot of rest, esp the first few weeks.  Sitting is hard, but you really can't do much else.

Oh man, I feel you on that. I couldnt sit up because it hurt and i couldnt lie down because of heartburn. Thank god for recliners.