Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello all,

I have been really hurt and saddened by all of the suicidal thoughts and plans that seems so prevalent in our community.  Having been there myself, I understand what it's like to have gone through bad times and think irrational as a result; however, there is always a solution and/or a way to improve one's situation.  Hearing stories of those who give up or plan on doing so breaks my heart.  While it is hard for us to stop suicide or control the actions of others, I can't help but feel we can do something more.  Sure, it's unavoidable to prevent it in all or most cases; although, if our tactics only save one out of 100, that is a major success to me as every life matters.

Therefore, I want to know what we as a community and as trans individuals (and allies) can do to ameliorate the situation.  I believe we can have a major impact that goes beyond posting on forum posts and directing people to suicide hotlines.  While those things are good and helpful in an exigent situation, perhaps there is something we can do to help those before it gets to that point.  I don't have the answer, but I figured a brainstorm may do us some good.

On that note, I will volunteer myself to speak or talk to anyone who is having these thoughts.  I'm no one special, but I will do whatever I can to help, improve or save a life.  IF anyone here has any of these suicidal thoughts, and it isn't pressing where a hotline or doctor could be better use at that moment, I will be willing to talk whenever I am available.  Every life is precious and so is you.  It may sound trite to say "it get's better"  but there is a reason it has become banal: it's true.  So please, don't do anything rash before exploring your options. 

In any event, I would appreciate any suggestions regarding ways our community can better fight against these sorts of things.  I think a discussion of this type is needed and will do us some good.  Thanks for any feedback you may have. 

You are a good person, <insert name when chosen>. 

(My nomination remains "Giselle.")

Sometimes having someone to just talk with can make a world of difference.

Its the part of me that will not let me just fade into the sunset. Its hard not being face to face with someone who is in trouble. But over the years i have won more battles then i have lost (others i was there for). I will not give up or refuse to let someone slip into the good night with out telling my story and showing there is sucess.

I will not sugar coat anything. Transition is the hardest thing anyone will do in life and there are so many hardships that come along with. But it comes down to fear of the unknown that drives many to wanting to give up. Sad part is fear is not real in 98% of the cases.

I have learned that the ones who did give up after talking to the familys said they would have been there for there son, daughter, husband, wife, father or mother if they only known. Its sad in this day and age with how everything has gotten 3 folds better then just 10 years ago that we would be hearing of this in our community.

I still cry (last night was one of them again) over the loss of some of my sisters and brothers. I wish they where still here and we could enjoy the fact as a post op example that you can get past the darkeness and live life happy.

I just will never give up and with forceful passion i will keep trying to bring those who feel lost back into the light.

Hugs
Izzy

Quote from: learningtolive on August 18, 2013, 11:45:15 AMOn that note, I will volunteer myself to speak or talk to anyone who is having these thoughts.

Me too. I'm also no one special, but I have learned a lot about this kind of stuff.
For anyone else who would like to offer, I've found that being subtle works pretty well. Don't sugarcoat things and don't make statements you can't back up. Instead, listen and empathize. Like let's say someone tells you that they think they're life will never get better. You don't know that it will either and saying that it will doesn't really help. (Whenever people did that to me, I would feel frustrated because they weren't listening.) What I do instead and that has worked for me is asking them what they want their life to be like. Sometimes, they don't know and we talk about that. Sometimes, they do, I get them to describe it. Sometimes, we can break it down into more manageable elements. I do the same thing when they tell me they don't like themselves. I ask who they want to be and what they want to change and we talk about that. Sometimes, there's nothing you can do and, in that case, you just have to do the best you can.
However, you have to remember that they are not your responsibility. What they choose to do is their decision and you can't control that. You can't fix them. Sorry for sounding airy fairy for a second, but this is their journey and it's something they have to discover for themselves. Otherwise, it wouldn't have enough of an impact to last. Also, the life they want to live, the person they want to be, and the way they want to get there is unique to them, so let them lead the way.
(This is for people in general, not just transgender people.)

People that talk about suicide are throwing ropes out hoping that someone will catch them before it is too late. So if they are talking about it there is thankfully a good chance of saving them with kind words, support and just someone to listen. Though there does need to be care taken.
It is the people that stop talking or hold their thoughts in that we have to worry about. They are the ones that will try and in far too many cases will succeed in taking their life.

For those people considering suicide (I often fall into these numbers ) you have to realize that you aren't a bad person bad things are happening to you. No one is the greek titan Atlas, we can't stand for an eternity with the weight of the world on our shoulders. But those who are coming to the breaking point need to find help to shoulder the burden not for anyone else but for yourself. If you are posting about your thoughts then you are taking the right steps.

If things seem to far away then break down the steps into smaller manageable chunks. If you are spiraling downwards don't lie there in the dark clutching yourself get out into the sunlight even if you have a hard time moving due to the depression. If you are still strong enough to walk then do so it really does help.

In the end if you succumb to depression then you let it steal any future joy happiness or even hope. While you live life can always get better there is always that hope even if it doesn't seem like it at the time.

For the rest look for odd changes in behaviour, if someone is normally down and suddenly they seem happy that is a sign. If someone suddenly stops talking that is a sign. If people start acting differently (I know with hrt it happens anyways) then send them a pm or an e-mail, try to see if something is wrong.

I shall read everyone's responses momentarily.

I am also on suicidal and depression forums. I find it frustrating when people suggest to ring hotlines and doctors. That is common sense.

I think you are on the right track. Willing to listen and talk to anyone with such thoughts. However, I don't always like talking about "Why". I just like having someone to talk to. Someone that comforts me. Someone to have a chinwag with. Talking about things I like, that's a bonus.

Now all is well reaching out and talking to others, but the minute you or anyone else loses interested, well.... it hurts. - i.e.  If I respond to someones message and they don't respond back to me....

I know I am not the only one that finds those two things frustrating. I know I am not the only one that wants comfort. I know I am not the only one that feels hurt when someone loses interest. I have heard other say so.

Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 19, 2013, 11:18:17 AM
I shall read everyone's responses momentarily.

I am also on suicidal and depression forums. I find it frustrating when people suggest to ring hotlines and doctors. That is common sense.

I think you are on the right track. Willing to listen and talk to anyone with such thoughts. However, I don't always like talking about "Why". I just like having someone to talk to. Someone that comforts me. Someone to have a chinwag with. Talking about things I like, that's a bonus.

Now all is well reaching out and talking to others, but the minute you or anyone else loses interested, well.... it hurts. - i.e.  If I respond to someones message and they don't respond back to me....

I know I am not the only one that finds those two things frustrating. I know I am not the only one that wants comfort. I know I am not the only one that feels hurt when someone loses interest. I have heard other say so.

It is our policy here to recommend calling a hotline because the hotline personnel are trained, and we are not. We will continue to advise calling the hotlines. There is no reason for anyone to find that frustrating. People sometimes forget common sense when things close in on them. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Edge on August 18, 2013, 01:34:31 PM
Me too. I'm also no one special, but I have learned a lot about this kind of stuff.
For anyone else who would like to offer, I've found that being subtle works pretty well. Don't sugarcoat things and don't make statements you can't back up. Instead, listen and empathize. Like let's say someone tells you that they think they're life will never get better. You don't know that it will either and saying that it will doesn't really help. (Whenever people did that to me, I would feel frustrated because they weren't listening.) What I do instead and that has worked for me is asking them what they want their life to be like. Sometimes, they don't know and we talk about that. Sometimes, they do, I get them to describe it. Sometimes, we can break it down into more manageable elements. I do the same thing when they tell me they don't like themselves. I ask who they want to be and what they want to change and we talk about that. Sometimes, there's nothing you can do and, in that case, you just have to do the best you can.
However, you have to remember that they are not your responsibility. What they choose to do is their decision and you can't control that. You can't fix them. Sorry for sounding airy fairy for a second, but this is their journey and it's something they have to discover for themselves. Otherwise, it wouldn't have enough of an impact to last. Also, the life they want to live, the person they want to be, and the way they want to get there is unique to them, so let them lead the way.
(This is for people in general, not just transgender people.)

Unfortunately I find myself to be one of those people. To tell someone else things can and most likely will get better as it is reassuring (I say it once. If I am talking to someone one to one, I tend to not say it again). I will try to further talk to people, but I find it difficult to start things off. I question as to whether or not they want to discuss everything about themselves with me, too.

I also find forums are tough; Somewhat impersonal. That is why I will message people, to talk to them one to one inorder to get to know them.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on August 19, 2013, 11:30:53 AM
It is our policy here to recommend calling a hotline because the hotline personnel are trained, and we are not. We will continue to advise calling the hotlines. There is no reason for anyone to find that frustrating. People sometimes forget common sense when things close in on them. Hugs, Devlyn

I know that is the policy here and everywhere else. I don't find that frustrating. I find it frustrating when people mention hotlines, but then don't offer themselves.

Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 19, 2013, 11:51:17 AM
I know that is the policy here and everywhere else. I don't find that frustrating. I find it frustrating when people mention hotlines, but then don't offer themselves.

I understand that sentiment; however, keep in mind that these hotlines are the best for urgent situations.  I don't think any of us are trained at dealing with these situations.  I'll glady talk to anyone, as I said in the thread, but I do recommend those who are in need of immediate care to seek out the proper help.  Having suicdal thoughts is different than having a gun to someone's head and about to make the ultimate mistake.  In those situations, they need someone who knows just the right thing to say to help them. 

We do our best to talk with people here, but remember this is a Forum, not live, not immediately interactive.  Trying to have an important conversation here is very difficult and the answers are not immediate.

This can make a difference.

When you call a hot line it is immediate and interactive, it gives people a better chance to talk things out.

That does not mean we won't respond here and give support.

Quote from: Edge on August 18, 2013, 01:34:31 PM
Me too. I'm also no one special, but I have learned a lot about this kind of stuff.
For anyone else who would like to offer, I've found that being subtle works pretty well. Don't sugarcoat things and don't make statements you can't back up. Instead, listen and empathize. Like let's say someone tells you that they think they're life will never get better. You don't know that it will either and saying that it will doesn't really help. (Whenever people did that to me, I would feel frustrated because they weren't listening.) What I do instead and that has worked for me is asking them what they want their life to be like. Sometimes, they don't know and we talk about that. Sometimes, they do, I get them to describe it. Sometimes, we can break it down into more manageable elements. I do the same thing when they tell me they don't like themselves. I ask who they want to be and what they want to change and we talk about that. Sometimes, there's nothing you can do and, in that case, you just have to do the best you can.
However, you have to remember that they are not your responsibility. What they choose to do is their decision and you can't control that. You can't fix them. Sorry for sounding airy fairy for a second, but this is their journey and it's something they have to discover for themselves. Otherwise, it wouldn't have enough of an impact to last. Also, the life they want to live, the person they want to be, and the way they want to get there is unique to them, so let them lead the way.
(This is for people in general, not just transgender people.)

It depends.  Sometimes people simply want reassurance and to hear it will get better.  I think every situation is different and people respond to different things.  I think everyone's life can get better by making the necessary changes that they need.  Life will never be perfect but there is always a way to improve it.  As you said, it's important to find the root cause of their depression and to find ways that they can make the changes they desire.  But like all conversations you have to read people and figure out what they are looking for.  Unfortunately, it can be a bit difficult to know when posting on an internet forum.

Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 19, 2013, 11:18:17 AM
I shall read everyone's responses momentarily.

I am also on suicidal and depression forums. I find it frustrating when people suggest to ring hotlines and doctors. That is common sense.

I think you are on the right track. Willing to listen and talk to anyone with such thoughts. However, I don't always like talking about "Why". I just like having someone to talk to. Someone that comforts me. Someone to have a chinwag with. Talking about things I like, that's a bonus.

Now all is well reaching out and talking to others, but the minute you or anyone else loses interested, well.... it hurts. - i.e.  If I respond to someones message and they don't respond back to me....

I know I am not the only one that finds those two things frustrating. I know I am not the only one that wants comfort. I know I am not the only one that feels hurt when someone loses interest. I have heard other say so.

Agreed.  Sometimes people just want a conversation and don't need urgent help.  That's cool too.  Sometimes just having a friend can take away the hopeless feelings.  But loneliness, while just as problematic, is a bit different than suicidal feelings.  Nonethless, that is something worth fighting against as well. 

On a side note, if people don't respond, it's not necessarily a loss of interest.  Sometimes people didn't get a chance to respond or were busy and couldn't do so in the proper amount of time.  I know I always respond when I can or a response is warranted as some conversations fizzle out naturally. 

Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 19, 2013, 11:59:29 AM
We do our best to talk with people here, but remember this is a Forum, not live, not immediately interactive.  Trying to have an important conversation here is very difficult and the answers are not immediate.

This can make a difference.

When you call a hot line it is immediate and interactive, it gives people a better chance to talk things out.

That does not mean we won't respond here and give support.

I think the difference between hotlines and this community is that hotlines work for those in need of immediate help.  This network is better for those who are in need of long term help and planning.  I guess my suggestion is to fight the problems before they get to the level where a suicide hotline is needed.  Suicidal thoughts don't always require a hotline.  Sometimes people need a friend to talk to and calm them down.  Again, the hotlines are best for the urgent moments, but they are not great for long term help with suicidal thoughts or recovery.  I know someone who called into one while having a breakdown and she got more upset that she listened to someone speaking from a sheet that didn't actually try to and have a conversation which is what she desired.  So both the forum and the hotlines can play a role, just in different ways.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 19, 2013, 12:10:11 PM
Speaking as someone who has daily struggles with suicidal thoughts, ideations, and urges (most of the time not all on the same day)...there fact that I am alone in my personal life is almost catastrophic.

My wife/ex is not only not "there" for me, when she and I visit it's like swallowing poison.

My kids have said they're not totally comfortable with me, for several reasons (trans is one of them).

I know a few people, some trans, some not...the non-trans people have their own mental health issues, so I do not wish to burden them with my problems (it is a fact that some simply cannot have additional burdens put on them). The trans people all seem to be there for me only if there's nothing else going on...some have even forgotten when we had a day planned.

I would suggest to the "community" to reach out to others, ask them to go out for coffee or lunch, buy if you can and they can't (yes, I have bought a lot of the meals when going out)...and keep your word when you say you're going to do something.

Sometimes posting online helps...but having a local hand to hold is miraculous. I would also suggest therefore, that we as a "community" develop the courage to be seen in public with our brothers and sisters, no matter where they are in their transition.

Hope this helps someone. Thanks for this topic, btw.

That's a great idea if you know someone personally.  One on one interaction is always better than online communication.  Unfortunately, that's not always possible as we all come from different areas.  But that is why in person support groups are great. 

Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 11:54:59 AM
I understand that sentiment; however, keep in mind that these hotlines are the best for urgent situations.  I don't think any of us are trained at dealing with these situations.  I'll glady talk to anyone, as I said in the thread, but I do recommend those who are in need of immediate care to seek out the proper help.  Having suicdal thoughts is different than having a gun to someone's head and about to make the ultimate mistake.  In those situations, they need someone who knows just the right thing to say to help them.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 19, 2013, 11:59:29 AM
We do our best to talk with people here, but remember this is a Forum, not live, not immediately interactive.  Trying to have an important conversation here is very difficult and the answers are not immediate.

This can make a difference.

When you call a hot line it is immediate and interactive, it gives people a better chance to talk things out.

That does not mean we won't respond here and give support.

I feel as if neither of you understood me. I am not opposed to hotlines. You can get wonderful people to talk to. And you are both right, talking to someone over the phone is better. I know.... I am not bothered when someone mentions hotlines. I am bothered when someone doesn't then say, "You can also talk to me".

Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 19, 2013, 12:20:00 PM
I feel as if neither of you understood me. I am not opposed to hotlines. You can get wonderful people to talk to. And you are both right, talking to someone over the phone is better. I know.... I am not bothered when someone mentions hotlines. I am bothered when someone doesn't then say, "You can also talk to me".

Oh, I agree with this.  I feel like that sort of response, while good in its intention, can be read as a slight or blow off.  Even though that isn't the case, I can see how some can misinterpret the situation.

I don't think I misunderstood you.  I simply think different situations require different tactics.  As I said before, the hotlines can be a terrible choice for some because I know people who felt more annoyed and suicidal after speaking with one.  It's meant to be sort of a last resort thing.  But the disclaimer and personal offer of direct conversation should always be available to those in need as well. 

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on August 19, 2013, 11:30:53 AM
It is our policy here to recommend calling a hotline because the hotline personnel are trained, and we are not. We will continue to advise calling the hotlines. There is no reason for anyone to find that frustrating. People sometimes forget common sense when things close in on them. Hugs, Devlyn

I actually am trained for suicide awareness and prevention. There is a problem though and that is we're not there for one on one confrontation and that's what a person needs and the suicide hotline has more resources than I think any of us would be able to provide. With only having a forum to be able talk to someone who is contemplating suicide extremely limits our ability to help.

But the other problem is that people tend to think that having to call the suicide hotline is a sign of weakness and they don't realize that you don't have to give them any information at all and you can just talk things out and be done there. They want to help and if they try to pressure you for anything they're not doing their job.

Personally I think we need to encourage the hotline and make sure people know you're not weak for asking help and you're not weak for calling that number. It's the only effective way to help I think from a forum.

Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 19, 2013, 11:18:17 AM
I think you are on the right track. Willing to listen and talk to anyone with such thoughts. However, I don't always like talking about "Why". I just like having someone to talk to. Someone that comforts me. Someone to have a chinwag with. Talking about things I like, that's a bonus.

That's funny to me because when I'm truly depressed, I have no desire to talk to anyone about anything. Talking is an extreme effort, and I don't seek comfort from other people; I find them a drain. But then, I find people a drain most of the time and have to get away from it all on a regular basis. Are you an extrovert?

Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 12:18:54 PMOn a side note, if people don't respond, it's not necessarily a loss of interest.  Sometimes people didn't get a chance to respond or were busy and couldn't do so in the proper amount of time.  I know I always respond when I can or a response is warranted as some conversations fizzle out naturally.

Agreed.

To each their own I guess, but I know when I struggling and people were dismissing how I was feeling, I felt even worse and most other people I've talked to are the same way.
Also, there was a "mental health first aid" thing that was running in my old city before I moved and they advised against it too.

Quote from: Arch on August 19, 2013, 12:39:03 PM
That's funny to me because when I'm truly depressed, I have no desire to talk to anyone about anything. Talking is an extreme effort, and I don't seek comfort from other people; I find them a drain. But then, I find people a drain most of the time and have to get away from it all on a regular basis. Are you an extrovert?

When I am really bad I also have no desire.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 12:18:54 PM

Agreed.  Sometimes people just want a conversation and don't need urgent help.  That's cool too.  Sometimes just having a friend can take away the hopeless feelings.  But loneliness, while just as problematic, is a bit different than suicidal feelings.  Nonethless, that is something worth fighting against as well. 

On a side note, if people don't respond, it's not necessarily a loss of interest.  Sometimes people didn't get a chance to respond or were busy and couldn't do so in the proper amount of time.  I know I always respond when I can or a response is warranted as some conversations fizzle out naturally. 

A conversation can come to end, but you can still make small talk. "How are you?" "What you been up to?" "What did you have for dinner today". It is understandable that people are busy, and you might even have missed the message. If you are busy, letting them know is polite. If you missed the message, don't assume they haven't responded, inquire.

Quote from: Jasriella on August 19, 2013, 12:32:58 PM
I actually am trained for suicide awareness and prevention. There is a problem though and that is we're not there for one on one confrontation and that's what a person needs and the suicide hotline has more resources than I think any of us would be able to provide. With only having a forum to be able talk to someone who is contemplating suicide extremely limits our ability to help.

But the other problem is that people tend to think that having to call the suicide hotline is a sign of weakness and they don't realize that you don't have to give them any information at all and you can just talk things out and be done there. They want to help and if they try to pressure you for anything they're not doing their job.

Personally I think we need to encourage the hotline and make sure people know you're not weak for asking help and you're not weak for calling that number. It's the only effective way to help I think from a forum.

I agree and disagree.  Hotlines are great, but it shouldn't be seen as the only effective way for us to help.   If someone is depressed and having suicidal thoughts, sometimes (not always) they may just want a meaningful one on one conversation.  Pms and forum chats can do wonders.  It just depends on the individual situation.  I've seen it work before. 

Quote from: Edge on August 19, 2013, 12:40:03 PM
Agreed.

To each their own I guess, but I know when I struggling and people were dismissing how I was feeling, I felt even worse and most other people I've talked to are the same way.
Also, there was a "mental health first aid" thing that was running in my old city before I moved and they advised against it too.

It's not good to dismiss how others feel, and I didn't mean to sound like I would suggest that.  If I came off that way, please forgive me. Everyone's feelings needs to be taken into account.  I'm just saying there is always a way to improve one's situation even if they don't feel that way at the moment.  That's where talking and trying to find out what they desire or learn about changes they may need to make, as you suggested. 

Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 19, 2013, 12:43:07 PM
A conversation can come to end, but you can still make small talk. "How are you?" "What you been up to?" "What did you have for dinner today". It is understandable that people are busy, and you might even have missed the message. If you are busy, letting them know is polite. If you missed the message, don't assume they haven't responded, inquire.

I understand what you mean, but this is a bit of a different topic.  I don't know if this is so much a key or solution to suicide prevention.  Besides, it would be difficult for everyone here to send numerous pms to all the other members throughout the day in order to check up.  If one is on here enough regularly, it's sort of a moot thing unless someone is looking for personal direct contact at that moment or needs someone to have a deep conversation with asap.  Then again, I have always been the sort the responds to others and doesn't reach out in most cases.  I'm weird like that as I have always feared rejection in all forms. 

Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 12:58:45 PM
I agree and disagree.  Hotlines are great, but it shouldn't be seen as the only effective way for us to help.   If someone is depressed and having suicidal thoughts, sometimes (not always) they may just want a meaningful one on one conversation.  Pms and forum chats can do wonders.  It just depends on the individual situation.  I've seen it work before.

Well yeah, you definitely don't just pass the buck. That person came to you for help meaning they trust you in a deepest of ways.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 12:58:45 PM
I understand what you mean, but this is a bit of a different topic.  I don't know if this is so much a key or solution to suicide prevention.  Besides, it would be difficult for everyone here to send numerous pms to all the other members throughout the day in order to check up.  If one is on here enough regularly, it's sort of a moot thing unless someone is looking for personal direct contact at that moment or needs someone to have a deep conversation with asap.  Then again, I have always been the sort the responds to others and doesn't reach out in most cases.  I'm weird like that as I have always feared rejection in all forms.

I was not implying everyone should check up on everyone else. I was only stating that if you have started to talk to someone, try to continue to do so. I also fear rejection but sometimes I overcome it.

Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 19, 2013, 12:43:07 PM
A conversation can come to end, but you can still make small talk. "How are you?" "What you been up to?" "What did you have for dinner today". It is understandable that people are busy, and you might even have missed the message. If you are busy, letting them know is polite. If you missed the message, don't assume they haven't responded, inquire.

There are certain personality types that hate small talk. It has nothing to do with the person they are talking to. Many of us will if they know the other person needs it or if it's required socially, but personally, I find I need to be told if the former is the case and have trouble remembering if it's the latter. It's nothing personal.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 12:58:45 PMIf I came off that way, please forgive me.

Nah you didn't.

Quote from: learningtolive on August 19, 2013, 12:58:45 PMEveryone's feelings needs to be taken into account.  I'm just saying there is always a way to improve one's situation even if they don't feel that way at the moment. That's where talking and trying to find out what they desire or learn about changes they may need to make, as you suggested.

Precisely. :)

Maybe we need information on this site for suicide hotlines that is much easier to find or easier ways for people to reach out when they are really down. When you are really depressed, it's hard enough to find the motivation to take the next breath much less look for ways to reach out to others. Maybe we need a button similar to "report post" , that signals someone you need help.