Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey ladies, so here i am planning to have an ffs in mexico for dr. lazaro cardenas. im talking to gisela now for the package and accomodations, im really confident about his work from what ive seen in youtube but i just recently saw this bad review of him

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g150798-i347-k4834600-Plastic_Surgery-Guadalajara_Guadalajara_Metropolitan_Area.html

any feedback, recommendations?
or any if u had gone there?

(nervous  :-\ and excited  :D )

I'm wondering about the brow reconstructive surgery by Cardenas if anyone's had it.. I mean the type III I think it's referred to..

Wow...just wow.  :o

This is just shocking. I don't know what to think about it but as the post is pretty detailed, I think that in fact something must have gotten wrong big time.

Thanks for sharing!

Quote from: marilyn on September 05, 2013, 10:38:50 PM
I'm wondering about the brow reconstructive surgery by Cardenas if anyone's had it.. I mean the type III I think it's referred to..

I didn't hear he is bad but I heard he is not 'invasive' enough in with all concerning forehead/upper hemisphere of the face surgeries but perfect with everything related to the lower hemisphere of face, his wife I heard does perfect nose jobs.

Despite all that I'm risking myself and I'm going to operate with him my Type III forehead as I can't afford anywhere else, neither Thailand which is becoming extortionate too.

You girls need to ask Tristan who is the 'Cardenas symbol' of the forum, she also speaks about her experience in Youtube and filmed the place etc, it looked cool. I heard horror stories too but that was only 1 among 50 girls in the Trip Advisor site, just like any best surgeon, sometimes they make mistake too just as we heard of Suporn.

I advise you to delve into this thread which talks about Cardenas thoroughly.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,140175.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,140175.0.html)

I found out that type III forehead reconstruction which involves removal of the frontal sinus plate is definitely used by Dr Bart in Belgium and Facial Team in Spain. What separates them from other surgeons:
They are cranio-maxillofacial surgeons and not facial plastic surgeons.

I think latter ones do not have the extensive training in cranial reconstruction and that type III surgery requires some advanced knowledge in this field.

Tony Mayer MD in Los Angeles doesn't do type III, too. Go to his website and take a look at the gallery. What he does is burring. On Realself dot com he also mentions that in most cases it wouldn't be indicated to do more than just burring.

Dr Bart and Facial Team say the opposite.

Dr Cardenas is a plastic surgeon, btw.

Anyone who chooses a surgeon based off some feedback on the Internet is a complete fool. My advice is simple, get a face to face consultation with a surgeon you might be interested in even if it means having to buy a plane ticket. People should ask themselves if they trust someone they don't even know with their hard earned money for the purposes of some surgery. Its your own body and take really good care of it!

When I was transitioning I went to one of those TG events. Generally some of the surgeons show up and will give you a free consultation. So for one trip you can meet a bunch of surgeons in the flesh and meet with them in private and decide if they are for you or not.

Lastly I can only say this from my own direct personal experience, and who ever reads this can either ignore it or should expect to learn this for themselves. I have met in my lifetime 2 people, one who went to dr brassard and one who went to dr pichet in person and both gave very negative feedback. In my humble opinion, in both cases, the women involved were their own undoing and not the surgeon. I'm not saying that because I went to brassard either. I'm only saying that in that case, it was not surgical error but lousy patients.

People who leave negative feedback could be legitimate, or could have a personal vendetta or almost anything. There are people who bypassed or cheated the standards of care, people who have very real mental issues that they never handled, people with addiction problems, the list goes on and on, who managed to come up with the money for surgery, and they may or may not have been genuine cases who benefit from the surgery.

Treat the surgeon the way you would buying a car. Heck good surgery these days is as expensive as buying a new car in cash. You wouldn't mail your money to a shady car dealer and not know what you are getting. You would want to meet the person and decide for yourself if this is the right person for you. A surgeon is no different, in fact even more so since you can always trade in a bad car, but you have to live forever with bad surgery.

The internet is a resource, just like any other resource...Some people can barely afford surgery, let alone traveling to diferent continents solely for the purpose of chatting FTF with a potential surgeon.

One can't compare surgeons with car salesmen...one takes years to become accredited and experienced, the other is one step away from flipping burgers. IMHO, all surgeons have a strong surgical skill set, or they wouldn't be practicing for very long. A surgeon-search could be compared to looking for a skilled tattoo artist: some artist's skill is more towards the "old school"/pre-WW2 style, others are superb with dragons, others are great for portraits, etc. The internet is a perfect time- and money-saving tool for this aspect of the search, as well as learning about lesser-known tat artists (or surgeons) who don't advertise.

Getting feedback about the practioners, and using this feedback in deciding who to go to, does not make one a "tool."

imho

Cardenas and his team are talented and caring, the aftercare top notch, the prices affordable for many of us with out a bazillion dollars to spend in the states or elsewhere our community is lucky to have him and Cardenas has improved my quality of life since going to see him In the summer of 2012. I intend to go back for another cosmetic procedure early next year and wouldnt hesitate to have him do any other surgery for me.
Unlike Tristan my surgery took over a year to really reveal itself fully to me but he did a great job and my confidence is much much improved and I'm grateful to him. He, His wife.... his team... Tyler and the fellas at the aftercare house they are all a dream.
-Courtney

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 06, 2013, 06:56:42 PM
The internet is a resource, just like any other resource...Some people can barely afford surgery, let alone traveling to diferent continents solely for the purpose of chatting FTF with a potential surgeon.

One can't compare surgeons with car salesmen...one takes years to become accredited and experienced, the other is one step away from flipping burgers. IMHO, all surgeons have a strong surgical skill set, or they wouldn't be practicing for very long. A surgeon-search could be compared to looking for a skilled tattoo artist: some artist's skill is more towards the "old school"/pre-WW2 style, others are superb with dragons, others are great for portraits, etc. The internet is a perfect time- and money-saving tool for this aspect of the search, as well as learning about lesser-known tat artists (or surgeons) who don't advertise.

Getting feedback about the practioners, and using this feedback in deciding who to go to, does not make one a "tool."

imho

well first of all im very new to this kind of surgeries, and im superb curious bout this bad review of him if its true or not THAT'S WHY I MADE THIS THREAD HELLO???. and if u were just here to question my post then dont even bother to make a comment period.

BTW ladies im really confident about his work since i already seen some pics and vids, and i already talked to him thru email and he seems very kind and professional. im excited to meet him :P and im about to wire the required money deposit.
first week of october will be a good date for me yay im so excited..

will update u guys...

camille

ad surgery with Dr Cardenas at the start of August. I have to wait for all the swelling to go down but from what I can see it looks promising. I am just hoping that he was not to conservative, which.... well I think he may have been, but I have to wait. I was very unsure as there has not been a great deal posted, so I went over there without booking anything and made an appointment to see the Doctor. After the appointment I was still unsure so I went to see Tyler at the recovery house. He said all the right things to make me confident in going ahead with surgery. I had forehead re¬contouring, hairline advancement, Rhinoplasty and tip reshaping, chin and ear reduction. I am sorry that I can not be any more help. Good luck. 

Quote from: TearDrops on September 22, 2013, 06:34:29 PM
ad surgery with Dr Cardenas at the start of August. I have to wait for all the swelling to go down but from what I can see it looks promising. I am just hoping that he was not to conservative, which.... well I think he may have been, but I have to wait. I was very unsure as there has not been a great deal posted, so I went over there without booking anything and made an appointment to see the Doctor. After the appointment I was still unsure so I went to see Tyler at the recovery house. He said all the right things to make me confident in going ahead with surgery. I had forehead re¬contouring, hairline advancement, Rhinoplasty and tip reshaping, chin and ear reduction. I am sorry that I can not be any more help. Good luck.

So you just walked in? eta: Nevermind, I found your description here (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144121.msg1201370.html#msg1201370).

Also, it's been about 7 weeks, are you able to go back to work? How is the overall bruising and swelling at this point?

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 22, 2013, 06:55:28 PM
So you just walked in? eta: Nevermind, I found your description here (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144121.msg1201370.html#msg1201370).

Also, it's been about 7 weeks, are you able to go back to work? How is the overall bruising and swelling at this point?

It looks as though it's going to take a long time for me to see the full results of my surgery because of the swelling. Tyler did tell me the story of the work he had done on his nose, he said it took a full year for all the swelling to completely go. I still have deep bruising around my eyes but kind of yellowish black. I had a headache for a few days after surgery (to be expected), and was relieved when that disappeared as I was fretting about a 'sinus headache', which I have read some people say has never subsided since having surgery, and is rather nasty. I started running and keeping fit again about two weeks ago, so about 5 weeks or so after surgery. I probably could have returned to work 2-3 weeks after surgery but because I am my own boss I will not start work until I think I look okay.

Quote from: marilyn on September 05, 2013, 10:38:50 PM
I'm wondering about the brow reconstructive surgery by Cardenas if anyone's had it.. I mean the type III I think it's referred to..

I thought I might need a type III on my forehead as it was quite bad from 25 years of boxing and frowning e.t.c, but apparently it has to be really, really bad, which I thought mine was, but according to Dr Cardenas I didn't need it. Only when I have waited a full year and all, and any swelling has gone will I know for sure if he was correct. If the swelling has already gone from my forehead region (which I believe it has) then it looks fantastic, and Dr C was right. Only time will tell........and waiting.....is a bitch, especially for anyone waiting for good results to be posted.

does he do forehead augmentation?

LADIES IM HERE IN GUADALAJARA! YEY! IM HAVING MY SURGERY AROUND 10AM AND ITS 2AM RIGHT NOW IM EXCITED AND ALIL NERVOUS! PLS PRAY FOR ME LOL. ADD ME ON MY SKYPE IF U GUYS WANNA SEE THE RESULT AND MY BRUISING FACE LOL. OH BTW ILL HAVE FULL FFS EXCEPT JAWLINE REMODELING, LIP LIFT, CHEEK BONE IMPLANT AND IM NOT GONNA GO TO TYPE III FOR THE FOREHEAD. ILL HAVE TRACHEA SHAVE, ORCHIECTOMY, LIPOSUCTION ON MY ARMS AND FAT TRANSFER. PM ME.



CAMILLE

Quote from: Camille69 on October 04, 2013, 02:30:20 AM
LADIES IM HERE IN GUADALAJARA! YEY! IM HAVING MY SURGERY AROUND 10AM AND ITS 2AM RIGHT NOW IM EXCITED AND ALIL NERVOUS! PLS PRAY FOR ME LOL. ADD ME ON MY SKYPE IF U GUYS WANNA SEE THE RESULT AND MY BRUISING FACE LOL. OH BTW ILL HAVE FULL FFS EXCEPT JAWLINE REMODELING, LIP LIFT, CHEEK BONE IMPLANT AND IM NOT GONNA GO TO TYPE III FOR THE FOREHEAD. ILL HAVE TRACHEA SHAVE, ORCHIECTOMY, LIPOSUCTION ON MY ARMS AND FAT TRANSFER. PM ME.



CAMILLE

Wow congrats Camille,

Please give maximum feedbacks as I'm going with him soon next year. Do you live in a hotel or where? Cos Tristan said she lived in the house-village while Cadenas is telling me to book a hotel aside so I'm confused.

Quote from: Camille69 on October 04, 2013, 02:30:20 AM
LADIES IM HERE IN GUADALAJARA! YEY! IM HAVING MY SURGERY AROUND 10AM AND ITS 2AM RIGHT NOW IM EXCITED AND ALIL NERVOUS! PLS PRAY FOR ME LOL. ADD ME ON MY SKYPE IF U GUYS WANNA SEE THE RESULT AND MY BRUISING FACE LOL. OH BTW ILL HAVE FULL FFS EXCEPT JAWLINE REMODELING, LIP LIFT, CHEEK BONE IMPLANT AND IM NOT GONNA GO TO TYPE III FOR THE FOREHEAD. ILL HAVE TRACHEA SHAVE, ORCHIECTOMY, LIPOSUCTION ON MY ARMS AND FAT TRANSFER. PM ME.



CAMILLE

I hope it all went well for you, I'll try to see how your doing through Skype but I am unsure as you gave no address.

how is your nose job result, teardrop ? I'm going to him this December.

Quote from: bingunginter on October 07, 2013, 10:40:12 PM
how is your nose job result, teardrop ? I'm going to him this December.

im finally healed now but i still have a bandage on my nose. if u wanna see my result ill give u my skype name, just give me ur email address. thanks

When I first came back from surgery I was fairly happy but concerned about certain things that I didnt realize was just swelling. I even emailed Tyler at one point to suggest I might need a revision on like 6 months post surgery. A year+ later I can see that Dr. Cardenas really did a very nice job, and I'm looking forward to going back for more work in 2014. So patience is key. The only gripe I guess i have is the window period for revisions isnt long enough to even make an informed decision on whether not you do indeed need revision work.

I intend to go back for Cheek Augmentation, Lip Lift, and BA.... god willing i can afford it all. After that I think i'll be set for awhile at least until I need like... upkeep.
The man worked nothing short of a miracle on my chin. The nose is beautiful but it really did take a year for the results to begin to shine. I was confused because I heard people talking about how painless everything is and how a month or two later the results were fab and I maybe am a baby but I was in pain for a good while and it took me longer to see results. But i'm in my 30's.... maybe someone in their 20s just heal up faster.
Anyways they are awesome and I cant wait to go back i'm so excited.

I've talked to one of the girls who had her surgery at her late forties and she looks super cute, feminine and she recommends him whole-heartedly, I presume she posted on this forum a while ago, I believe her nickname was inna or sth like that. Hopefully I'll be having few surgeries with him in the late 2014!

I had FFS back in March this year, in Thailand.

In my experience it does take a long time to heal and I think your age is a factor.  I am 55 but in pretty good health.

They don't even do FFS or VFS in my country (or anywhere near it) so my traveling to Asia (as I have done) was necessary.

I also had a consultation just before both procedures.  I wasn't a fool.  It was the only way it could be done.

Not the most pleasant experience (either one) but Now I look (and will sound) like how I feel.

At least I could do it, and life isn't without it's risks, no matter what we do or who we are.

H :)

I had my FFS surgery and breast Augmentation with Dr Cardenas on August 30th, 2013 and the care I received was first class.  I was 58, a type 1 insulin dependent diabetic, so having complications are often expected.  I developed a streptococcal infection in my right breast a few day after my augmentation.  Dr Cardenas and his Argentenian Post Doctoral Fellow swung right into action.  They injected an antibiotic solution through my suture line and then had to force the infection and antibiotic solution out.  It hurt like you would expect getting your breast squeezed hard, but it worked and they saved my implant.  It cost me an extra 4 days of stay in Guadalajara.  But well worth it.

Today, the results of my FFS are very good and I love my breasts.  I would go back to Dr Cardenas for any further surgery if I needed it.  I'm having my SRS in August 2014 in Thailand and am anxiously awaiting for that special day to come.  It's been a long and difficult journey and I haven't reached the end.  None of us do.  Even after SRS, there's a lifetime of dilating and special care of our new vagina that is required of us.  I just pray that now that Medicare is covering SRS, that private insurance will stop the coverage discrimination towards our community and more of us can find coverage.  Kathy

Quote from: KathrynJulia on June 11, 2014, 12:39:50 PM
I had my FFS surgery and breast Augmentation with Dr Cardenas on August 30th, 2013 and the care I received was first class.  I was 58, a type 1 insulin dependent diabetic, so having complications are often expected.  I developed a streptococcal infection in my right breast a few day after my augmentation.  Dr Cardenas and his Argentenian Post Doctoral Fellow swung right into action.  They injected an antibiotic solution through my suture line and then had to force the infection and antibiotic solution out.  It hurt like you would expect getting your breast squeezed hard, but it worked and they saved my implant.  It cost me an extra 4 days of stay in Guadalajara.  But well worth it.

Today, the results of my FFS are very good and I love my breasts.  I would go back to Dr Cardenas for any further surgery if I needed it.  I'm having my SRS in August 2014 in Thailand and am anxiously awaiting for that special day to come.  It's been a long and difficult journey and I haven't reached the end.  None of us do.  Even after SRS, there's a lifetime of dilating and special care of our new vagina that is required of us.  I just pray that now that Medicare is covering SRS, that private insurance will stop the coverage discrimination towards our community and more of us can find coverage.  Kathy

I'm 4 weeks out and I'm pretty sure I will need a revision. We did a type I on my forehead but you can still see my sinus, especially on the right side, which is my left side. This isn't swelling I see, it's the frontal sinus. Type I wasn't enough to remove the sinus prominence, only the bossing on the orbital rims. I will need type III...  and will also likely get fat grafting to the cheeks or implants, not sure which. I hate the idea that Imma have to do this all over again. Ladies if you're going to Cardenas for forehead work insist on type III if your frontal sinus is prominent, better to do it right the first time than be faced with having to do it all over again.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1282.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa532%2Fjgirlpacific%2Fmesinusshowing_zpsb3cea0e5.jpg&hash=44478db9a113cceafda790f9bf061d5b84d81f8e) (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/jgirlpacific/media/mesinusshowing_zpsb3cea0e5.jpg.html)

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 11, 2014, 10:30:29 PM
I'm 4 weeks out and I'm pretty sure I will need a revision. We did a type I on my forehead but you can still see my sinus, especially on the right side, which is my left side. This isn't swelling I see, it's the frontal sinus. Type I wasn't enough to remove the sinus prominence, only the bossing on the orbital rims. I will need type III...  and will also likely get fat grafting to the cheeks or implants, not sure which. I hate the idea that Imma have to do this all over again. Ladies if you're going to Cardenas for forehead work insist on type III if your frontal sinus is prominent, better to do it right the first time than be faced with having to do it all over again.

I see what you mean from looking at this photo of you...... I have to have all my procedures done again, after Dr Cardenas messed it up by not doing enough nor doing what I actually paid him to do. These were, a sliding genioplasty and a type III. He didnt even refund me the money that I paid him for these procedures, he just said that the same amount of time, work and effort was involved in what he had done. 

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 12, 2014, 02:08:05 PM
I'm sorry TearDrops, did he actually perform a type III procedure on you? If yes, how did it turn out for you. I understand overall you're not satisfied, but if you did the type III I would be interested in knowing how you feel about your forehead? I ask because I am trying to determine if I will go back for the type III with Cardenas. You may also private message me if you wish. Thanks, J

I paid for a type III for my forehead, I also paid for a sliding genioplasty for my chin. He did neither. I actually believe, from everything that I have read, that he does not like doing them, because its stretches him to the limits of his capabilities. All the forums I go on say the same thing over and over, "Dr C said that I didn't need a type III". Lets be honest, statistically, not my opinion, but statistically, 90% of men who have FFS will only get a truly feminine looking forehead with a type III. Anything else is pie in the sky, and your just kidding yourself if you think otherwise, you may pass okay, but with a type III, you could of had a much better end result. I paid him to do the procedure, so why the hell didn't he just do it?
Every procedure that he performed on my face has to be redone. Like I've already said several times on this forum, even if he offered to redo my surgeries for nothing, I would not let him. People only go to him because of his cheaper prices, well you get what you pay for. I'm now sick and tired of talking about Cardenas and his team of Muppets, I've warned everybody about him to the point of boring people. That is it now, no more.

Quote from: TearDrops on June 12, 2014, 08:16:46 PM
I paid for a type III for my forehead, I also paid for a sliding genioplasty for my chin. He did neither. I actually believe, from everything that I have read, that he does not like doing them, because its stretches him to the limits of his capabilities. All the forums I go on say the same thing over and over, "Dr C said that I didn't need a type III". Lets be honest, statistically, not my opinion, but statistically, 90% of men who have FFS will only get a truly feminine looking forehead with a type III. Anything else is pie in the sky, and your just kidding yourself if you think otherwise, you may pass okay, but with a type III, you could of had a much better end result. I paid him to do the procedure, so why the hell didn't he just do it?
Every procedure that he performed on my face has to be redone. Like I've already said several times on this forum, even if he offered to redo my surgeries for nothing, I would not let him. People only go to him because of his cheaper prices, well you get what you pay for. I'm now sick and tired of talking about Cardenas and his team of Muppets, I've warned everybody about him to the point of boring people. That is it now, no more.

Ok, so you paid for a type III and he didn't complete it, and didn't refund you the money, is my understanding correct?  Thanks, J
Oops, I see where you answered the questions already, that he did not refund you for paying for type III and reasoned that "  the same amount of time, work and effort was involved in what he had done. "   

PS I was asking because I thought he had done the type III on you, and he didn't. Ok, I got it.

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 12, 2014, 08:56:22 PM
PS I was asking because I thought he had done the type III on you, and he didn't. Ok, I got it.

Ive just finished writing you a very long and time consuming private message. It is very late now.........actually its now early morning and the birds have just started singing, time for me to go. Seeya

Quote from: TearDrops on June 12, 2014, 09:21:54 PM
Ive just finished writing you a very long and time consuming private message. It is very late now.........actually its now early morning and the birds have just started singing, time for me to go. Seeya

Thanks for that, I have not received it yet... Will check again later.

Quote from: TearDrops on June 12, 2014, 09:21:54 PM
Ive just finished writing you a very long and time consuming private message. It is very late now.........actually its now early morning and the birds have just started singing, time for me to go. Seeya

Can You share few highlights of what You mentioned to Jgirl? I am also considering Cardenas for couple of procedures.

What about your chin work? You paid and he didn't touch it? How do you know?

Quote from: crowcrow223 on June 13, 2014, 04:02:08 AM
Can You share few highlights of what You mentioned to Jgirl? I am also considering Cardenas for couple of procedures.

What about your chin work? You paid and he didn't touch it? How do you know?

I paid for what he described as a sliding genioplasty, It was $750 extra on top of the normal price for chin remodelling which you usually just have to make your chin more feminine. He did not do the genioplasty, but he did reshape and remodel my chin, the only thing is its now a lopsided mess. Im going to put a photo up of just my chin area so that you can all see what I mean but I will have to wait for my daughter to get home so that she can take a fresh photo. I will try to get it on here before the end of Sunday. Oh, And he kept my money for the sliding genioplasty that he never did, amongst other procedures that I paid him for that he also never did.

Whats a sliding genioplasty?

Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 12:49:42 AM
I had FFS back in March this year, in Thailand.

In my experience it does take a long time to heal and I think your age is a factor.  I am 55 but in pretty good health.

They don't even do FFS or VFS in my country (or anywhere near it) so my traveling to Asia (as I have done) was necessary.

I also had a consultation just before both procedures.  I wasn't a fool.  It was the only way it could be done.

Not the most pleasant experience (either one) but Now I look (and will sound) like how I feel.

At least I could do it, and life isn't without it's risks, no matter what we do or who we are.

H :)

Could you let me know who did your surgery and what you had done, and the cost of the surgery/ies. What do you think about the results???

Quote from: crowcrow223 on June 13, 2014, 04:02:08 AM
Can You share few highlights of what You mentioned to Jgirl? I am also considering Cardenas for couple of procedures.

What about your chin work? You paid and he didn't touch it? How do you know?

I cannot find the email that I sent to jgirl anywhere. If you read this post jgirl, could you please send a copy of it to my private e mail address, that is if you did receive it, thank you.

Quote from: crowcrow223 on June 14, 2014, 03:02:39 AM
Whats a sliding genioplasty?

Dr Cardenas called it this. He told me and then showed me with a diagram, what he meant. Apparently they saw your chin off, then cut a section of bone off of it, and then affix it back into place with very small titanium plates and screws. I think some Surgeons call it a sliding osteotomy or just a chin oseotomy, but don't quote me on that, because I am unsure of the correct terminology. Anyway that is what DR C called it "A Sliding Genioplasty".

Quote from: TearDrops on June 14, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
I cannot find the email that I sent to jgirl anywhere. If you read this post jgirl, could you please send a copy of it to my private e mail address, that is if you did receive it, thank you.

Sorry, I never received the message in my inbox on Susan's... :( 

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 14, 2014, 10:54:20 PM
Sorry, I never received the message in my inbox on Susan's... :(

maybe cuz it's full? check it :)

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 14, 2014, 10:54:20 PM
Sorry, I never received the message in my inbox on Susan's... :(

Ive sent you 2 e mails, from my end it says that they have been sent. Maybe its in your spam or your mailbox is full. That first e mail took me three hours to write so I cant possibly write it over again, which is a shame because of its content. Sorry.  :(

 I sent you one too a few days ago Jgirl, it also seems it got lost, not sure why. Anyway... Probably some glitch

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 15, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Bizarre! I received your message Carly and I responded... Did you not receive my response?

I also sent you a message about what worked for my scar lol :)

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 15, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Bizarre! I received your message Carly and I responded... Did you not receive my response?

No Hun, didn't receive it ...

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 15, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Bizarre! I received your message Carly and I responded... Did you not receive my response?

Jgirl, I know you accidentally sent me a message that wasn't meant for me. You were taking about Maderma and your scar. Carly probably never received it because it ended up in my inbox instead.

Quote from: TearDrops on June 14, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
I cannot find the email that I sent to jgirl anywhere. If you read this post jgirl, could you please send a copy of it to my private e mail address, that is if you did receive it, thank you.

Be sure to check the box "save copy to outbox" or something along those lines before you send a message to someone. By doing so, you will save a copy of whatever you send to people. That way if they never receive it I just Copy and Paste and send it again.  :laugh:

Hey Ladies, I'm thinking about going to see Dr.Lazaro and from what I can see most of you are very happy with the results would you mind sharing some before and afters ?

He did my friend FFS on two parts and the results are great but I'm very nervous being in mexico and all but
the price is so so affordable, I was going to go to dr jeffrey spiegel in Boston as my plan B.

Mind if I pm you Alexi90? Thank you!

I did not obtain good results from Dr. Cardenas. He did a type I forehead procedure and I needed type III. I still have brow bossing and my front sinus still protrudes. He also didn't take any of the jaw flaring away, my jaw is still quite square. Honestly for the money I think Dr. Rossi would be a better bet. I'm not the only one on the forum who feels they received a poor forehead result. If you need a type III (most people do) I would strongly consider another surgeon.

Quote from: Wednesday on September 17, 2015, 04:36:34 PM
Mind if I pm you Alexi90? Thank you!

Yea of course!

Quote from: jgirl76 on September 18, 2015, 02:53:51 AM
I did not obtain good results from Dr. Cardenas. He did a type I forehead procedure and I needed type III. I still have brow bossing and my front sinus still protrudes. He also didn't take any of the jaw flaring away, my jaw is still quite square. Honestly for the money I think Dr. Rossi would be a better bet. I'm not the only one on the forum who feels they received a poor forehead result. If you need a type III (most people do) I would strongly consider another surgeon.

DUH! I think I'm going back to Chettawut again too then, it's the FACE. Can't take major risks

He's a nice guy. Unfortunately, I too didn't obtain good results. I was given a type 1 and I was told by a surgeon recently that I needed a type 3. I even had a X-ray done to prove it. I can't tell anyone whether to go with him or not. You have to figure that out yourself. I will say with my transition I've done things by going the "easy, cheaper way" when it comes to my surgeries and I'm living proof that you shouldn't go by whose cheaper but whose most experienced. I thank God my mom is still here to support me mentally because I've felt many times giving up.

Tinkerbell - Don't give up! It may take a few years but you should save up and like jgirl 76 has said, find another doctor who is right for you. I went to Dr. Rossi. See my thread [url]https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,189339.0.html[/url. He is very affordable and he does very aggressive type 3 contouring while still being safe. Check his credentials, he's a craniofacial surgeon just like Dr. Ousterhout. My forehead is very smooth, see my before/afters.

I know just what you mean by regretting going cheap on something so important. Usually it's true that you get what you pay for. However, in my case, Dr. Rossi isn't well known yet and so his prices are much lower at least for the time being. I think oftentimes it's not necessarily that you're paying for higher quality but that you're paying more for a good reputation. But yes, it's better to wait, save your money, and pay for a better surgeon than to have to go through a revision surgery, which is can be more difficult, expensive, and risky. In the end, if you go cheap, the final price comes out to even more because you have to pay twice! And that's not including all the anguish and emotional and physical pain you go through. I'm so sorry to hear what you and jgirl76 have gone through.

Both of you are still beautiful, I'm sure :) You'll get to where you want, don't give up!


- Ruby

Quote from: TearDrops on June 12, 2014, 08:16:46 PM
I have to have all my procedures done again, after Dr Cardenas messed it up by not doing enough nor doing what I actually paid him to do. These were, a sliding genioplasty and a type III. He didnt even refund me the money that I paid him for these procedures, he just said that the same amount of time, work and effort was involved in what he had done.

I paid for a type III for my forehead, I also paid for a sliding genioplasty for my chin. He did neither. I actually believe, from everything that I have read, that he does not like doing them, because its stretches him to the limits of his capabilities. All the forums I go on say the same thing over and over, "Dr C said that I didn't need a type III". Lets be honest, statistically, not my opinion, but statistically, 90% of men who have FFS will only get a truly feminine looking forehead with a type III. Anything else is pie in the sky, and your just kidding yourself if you think otherwise, you may pass okay, but with a type III, you could of had a much better end result. I paid him to do the procedure, so why the hell didn't he just do it?
Every procedure that he performed on my face has to be redone. Like I've already said several times on this forum, even if he offered to redo my surgeries for nothing, I would not let him. People only go to him because of his cheaper prices, well you get what you pay for. I'm now sick and tired of talking about Cardenas and his team of Muppets, I've warned everybody about him to the point of boring people. That is it now, no more.

My experience was exactly the same. Bottom line: he did not do what I paid him to do, after being super-specific and him agreeing to it (it was only jaw reduction, nothing else, I got some X-ray studies, drew marks of exactly what I wanted, he saw it, agreed 100% to it and then he did a totally different thing and very asymmetrical as well, I mean he took off much more bone from one side than the other).

I also told him about how dissatisfied I was with his poor work, in hopes of getting him to offer to refund me at least his surgery fees even if not any of the hospital, anesthesia and assistant fees. But nope, he offered no refund and he actually denied having done a poor job on me as well as something entirely different from what we both agreed he would do. I feel exactly the same way as TearDrops: even if he offered to redo my surgeries for nothing, I would not let him.

Just keep this in mind if you even consider going to have anything major, FFS-related (bone work) done with Cardenas: 1) as it has been mentioned HE IS NOT a craniomaxillofacial surgeon, he is only a plastic surgeon. 2) You get to pay 20-30% of what you would pay to a real top-notch FFS surgeon in Europe, USA, and also a bit less than one of the top guys in Thailand or South America. Well, that's what you'll get: 20-30% improvement, TOPS, if you are lucky, with any bone-related surgery by him but most probably you will be in need of corrective surgery. 3) Don't be deceived by his advertisements everywhere, where he appears next to the real top surgeons in directories of FFS surgeons worldwide. He is definitely the most known (or actually THE ONLY one) FFS surgeon in Mexico, which doesn't mean that he is good at what he does. He just knows how to promote himself to appear to be one of the top guys for FFS. 4) If you will not have anything major (bone-related) such as forehead, chin or jaw done on your face, MAYBE his "affordable" prices could be worth it, since he IS a plastic surgeon after all. But you'd really need to get in touch with at least a couple of unbiased recent patients of his, willing to share with you pics or preferably videos before-after, the after being at least six months since the procedure. Never trust the so-called experiences of his own Youtube channel or his own advertising Web Sites! Of course he will show only his most successful cases, you will never see the average ones and much less the non-successful ones, which I believe are the majority of his patients.

Cheers

Bibi B.

Hi Bibi, I have sent you a private message regarding your post above.

Quote from: RubyAliza on September 22, 2015, 01:03:04 AM
Tinkerbell - Don't give up! It may take a few years but you should save up and like jgirl 76 has said, find another doctor who is right for you. I went to Dr. Rossi. See my thread [url]https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,189339.0.html[/url. He is very affordable and he does very aggressive type 3 contouring while still being safe. Check his credentials, he's a craniofacial surgeon just like Dr. Ousterhout. My forehead is very smooth, see my before/afters.

I know just what you mean by regretting going cheap on something so important. Usually it's true that you get what you pay for. However, in my case, Dr. Rossi isn't well known yet and so his prices are much lower at least for the time being. I think oftentimes it's not necessarily that you're paying for higher quality but that you're paying more for a good reputation. But yes, it's better to wait, save your money, and pay for a better surgeon than to have to go through a revision surgery, which is can be more difficult, expensive, and risky. In the end, if you go cheap, the final price comes out to even more because you have to pay twice! And that's not including all the anguish and emotional and physical pain you go through. I'm so sorry to hear what you and jgirl76 have gone through.

Both of you are still beautiful, I'm sure :) You'll get to where you want, don't give up!


- Ruby

Thanks so much for the kind words Ruby. You're beautiful inside and OUT. I've been in contact with Dr. Rossi who has approved me for surgery . I'm going to try to be going down in the spring.

Gee... it surprises me when I hear of someone disappointed with Dr. Cardenas' work. I saw Dr. Cardenas in Feb. '14 and Feb. '15 for FFS. Why two visits? The main reason is the time constraints he so wisely imposes on the total time under anesthesia. When you go over 5 - 6 hours, the risks increase substantially. Also, there's no truth in the presumption that Dr. Cardenas does no like or is overly challenged by a type-III forehead reconstruction or osteotomy (sliding genioplasy)of the chin. I've had both performed by him with no ill side affects and no down time (as reported in another post here). I've heard of a number of FFS surgeons in the U.S. not feeling up to such work, but never about Dr. Cardenas. I might add, it was Dr. Cardenas that suggested I opt for the procedures I had, including the type-III and the sliding genioplasy. Post-surgery, we sat down and reviewed the actual photos from the surgery. It was amazing!!

I might also add, I've heard of disappointments from just about every FFS surgeon out there, from patients of Dr. Ousterhout to Dr. Spiegel to FacialTeam... none of them are compaint free. Is it the surgeon??? Maybe it's us, sometimes. I speak from personal experience when i say I'm a difficult person to please, cosmetic surgery wise. I had this image in my mind of exactly what I THOUGHT I needed to look like to escape the face if been running from for over 50 years. I thought I had to look like a caricature of a woman and remove every trace of my former face. Dr. Cardenas listened to what I wanted and looked at the photos I brought with me. He was so incredibly honest! He refused to make me look ridiculous or like a cartoon. In addition, there's limitations our own facial structure placed upon the surgeon.  Initially (after the first surgery) I thought I needed a lot more. Truthfully, it's common to feel depressed and disappointed after cosmetic surgery. Dr. Dub row even stresses this on the TV show 'Botched'. I'm so thankful for Dr. Cardenas and his staff. Oh... and his facility outshines anything I've seen in the U.S.

I'm saddened to say, there are some SERIOUS complications (beyond gripes and complaints) that I've heard out of Boston and Spain. I'm heartbroken to hear that one of my friends will never regain full use of her vocal cords after a serious screwup with the intubation tube by one of these. Another friend had to have her jaw wired shut after a mishap at the other. FFS, like any surgery, is not without risks. I know Dr. Cardenas does everything possible to minimize the risks and is a highly, highly competent surgeon and surgical artist. For the work I wanted done, when Dr. Ousterhout retired, there was only one choice.

As far as going to Guadalajara for surgery. This isn't like the hack-job placed you hear about by folks trying to scare you away from medical care in Mexico or other countries. The facility and care in GDL is world class! I even took it s step further to prove that there's nothing to fear by staying in a hotel instead of the recovery house this last visit. I walked to/from the clinic each day, plus walked many other streets and backroads.. even a few dirt trails... all to disprove the wrong-think we have in the states about life in other countries. Tell you what... it's doubtful I'd feel as comfortable and safe in many cities in the U.S.

When I can, I'd be willing to share photos of before and after.

Quote from: Blairdlena on October 01, 2015, 09:08:57 PM

           For the work I wanted done, when Dr. Ousterhout retired, there was only one choice.

From the  Yelp reviews - - Dr. O's patients are rather pleased with the surgeon he selected to be his successor.

See, for example,  the three most recent reviews:   

                http://www.yelp.com/biz/jordan-deschamps-braly-md-san-francisco

One is from a patient who is, herself, an M.D. !  States she consulted with 10 other surgeons before deciding to have her surgery done by Dr. Ousterhout's successor.  Her face looks really natural.

Dr. Cardenas has hundreds of happy FFS patients dating as far back as the mid 1990's.  Like any surgeon who operates as often as he does, there are a small number of unsatisfied clients who are very vocal about it.  A surgeon with no negative mentions online is one that simply hasn't performed the procedure in question long enough for it to happen.   

In any case, there are many reasons why a patient might become disgruntled and I think it's important to mention some of them here in this forum:

1.  The patient has unrealistic expectations about the procedure(s):  All surgeons have had patients that fall into this category.  It's not difficult for the surgeon to avoid the most obvious cases, but sometimes patients have a hidden objective in mind.  For example, a patient might say that her goal is to make her masculine facial features appear more feminine.  But, after the surgery, she might express dissatisfaction about her perception that she is not "beautiful."  We once received a call from a young Asian teen from Manila who wanted to know if we could guarantee that she would look like Angelina Jolie!  The answer is no.  Unfortunately, most patients are not quite this obvious in broadcasting their unrealistic expectations.

2.  The patient suffers from Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD): People with BDD are preoccupied with an imagined physical defect or a minor defect that others often cannot see.  We look carefully for signs of this, but aren't always successful in detecting it in advance.  Someone who suffers from Body Dysmorphia cannot be made happy with surgery.  She must first treat this problem before considering surgery.  If you look carefully as some of the recent posts on this forum, you'll see signs of BDD.  Although we try to identify and refer patients with BDD for mental health treatment, they are sometimes able to mask the problem until after the surgery. 

3.  The patient is uncertain about what she wants: Transitioning is no cake walk and decisions don't happen overnight.  We realize this.  But, sometimes patients move the goal posts after the surgery is done and unfairly blame the surgeon.  We once had a patient that told us that he didn't want complete feminization because he wasn't transitioning.  He merely wanted to soften some of his features and to repair a poor surgical outcome from another surgeon.  He cautioned Dr. Cardenas not to make the features too feminine since he must be able to pass as male.  We understood that the patient wanted to live as a male most of the time.  The patient contacted us about a year later and stated that she had now decided to transition and wanted the procedures done again, but this time with feminization in mind.  She felt that we should have treated them as "touch ups" and not as new procedures.  We declined to do this since the goal had been completely changed.  We did what was requested but it was no longer good enough since the patient now wanted full feminization.  In hindsight, we wish we had detected the uncertainty in her objectives.  What a difference a year delay would have made.

4.  The patient has complications:  Complications sometimes happen despite the best of care and patients are always informed in advance about them.  When they happen, the patient will usually accept them and accept our help in resolving them.  However, we've also had patients who blamed us for a complication that was not within our control.  Some patients develop infections or other complications because they refuse to follow the post-op instructions, don't take their antibiotics, or fail to keep the incisions clean, etc.  Yet, some of these patients will blame the surgeon.

5.  The impatient patient: This is an extremely common issue that we can usually resolve by reassuring a patient that her healing is still underway and that the final result won't be visible for a while.  Still, we've had some patients that have gone online to express their frustration about results that are masked by inflammation.

6.  The surgeon makes a mistake:  Surgeons are human and can, in fact, occasionally make a mistake.  Fortunately, most mistakes can be fixed if the patient agrees to it. 

In summary, there are many reasons why a patient might perceive her outcome to be poor.  Unhappy patients are by far the most vocal.  That being said, there are also some posts where the author is completely unknown to us. In these unidentifiable cases, we are left to wonder if a competitor may be responsible for them - especially in cases where the proposed alternative is always the same.

Regardless, these negative posts represent a very small number compared to our hundreds of satisfied patients.  Many of these patients have written testimonials which we have posted online and most of them have provided an e-mail address so that they may be contacted.

Quote from: radialan on October 07, 2015, 09:23:17 AM
Unhappy patients are by far the most vocal.

Alas, human nature...

Quote from: radialan on October 07, 2015, 09:23:17 AM
Dr. Cardenas has hundreds of happy FFS patients dating as far back as the mid 1990's.  Like any surgeon who operates as often as he does, there are a small number of unsatisfied clients who are very vocal about it.  A surgeon with no negative mentions online is one that simply hasn't performed the procedure in question long enough for it to happen.   

In any case, there are many reasons why a patient might become disgruntled and I think it's important to mention some of them here in this forum:

1.  The patient has unrealistic expectations about the procedure(s):  All surgeons have had patients that fall into this category.  It's not difficult for the surgeon to avoid the most obvious cases, but sometimes patients have a hidden objective in mind.  For example, a patient might say that her goal is to make her masculine facial features appear more feminine.  But, after the surgery, she might express dissatisfaction about her perception that she is not "beautiful."  We once received a call from a young Asian teen from Manila who wanted to know if we could guarantee that she would look like Angelina Jolie!  The answer is no.  Unfortunately, most patients are not quite this obvious in broadcasting their unrealistic expectations.

2.  The patient suffers from Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD): People with BDD are preoccupied with an imagined physical defect or a minor defect that others often cannot see.  We look carefully for signs of this, but aren't always successful in detecting it in advance.  Someone who suffers from Body Dysmorphia cannot be made happy with surgery.  She must first treat this problem before considering surgery.  If you look carefully as some of the recent posts on this forum, you'll see signs of BDD.  Although we try to identify and refer patients with BDD for mental health treatment, they are sometimes able to mask the problem until after the surgery. 

3.  The patient is uncertain about what she wants: Transitioning is no cake walk and decisions don't happen overnight.  We realize this.  But, sometimes patients move the goal posts after the surgery is done and unfairly blame the surgeon.  We once had a patient that told us that he didn't want complete feminization because he wasn't transitioning.  He merely wanted to soften some of his features and to repair a poor surgical outcome from another surgeon.  He cautioned Dr. Cardenas not to make the features too feminine since he must be able to pass as male.  We understood that the patient wanted to live as a male most of the time.  The patient contacted us about a year later and stated that she had now decided to transition and wanted the procedures done again, but this time with feminization in mind.  She felt that we should have treated them as "touch ups" and not as new procedures.  We declined to do this since the goal had been completely changed.  We did what was requested but it was no longer good enough since the patient now wanted full feminization.  In hindsight, we wish we had detected the uncertainty in her objectives.  What a difference a year delay would have made.

4.  The patient has complications:  Complications sometimes happen despite the best of care and patients are always informed in advance about them.  When they happen, the patient will usually accept them and accept our help in resolving them.  However, we've also had patients who blamed us for a complication that was not within our control.  Some patients develop infections or other complications because they refuse to follow the post-op instructions, don't take their antibiotics, or fail to keep the incisions clean, etc.  Yet, some of these patients will blame the surgeon.

5.  The impatient patient: This is an extremely common issue that we can usually resolve by reassuring a patient that her healing is still underway and that the final result won't be visible for a while.  Still, we've had some patients that have gone online to express their frustration about results that are masked by inflammation.

6.  The surgeon makes a mistake:  Surgeons are human and can, in fact, occasionally make a mistake.  Fortunately, most mistakes can be fixed if the patient agrees to it. 

In summary, there are many reasons why a patient might perceive her outcome to be poor.  Unhappy patients are by far the most vocal.  That being said, there are also some posts where the author is completely unknown to us. In these unidentifiable cases, we are left to wonder if a competitor may be responsible for them - especially in cases where the proposed alternative is always the same.

Regardless, these negative posts represent a very small number compared to our hundreds of satisfied patients.  Many of these patients have written testimonials which we have posted online and most of them have provided an e-mail address so that they may be contacted.

What do you have to say about Dr Cardenas every time trying to 'escape' the type III foreheads and always converging to Type 1 despite Type III was what was requested by patients from the beginning. Many have said they requested Type III and he always end up doing Type 1/2. And it's not one or two people but I heard like more than 5 different people complaining the same thing.

Dr. Cardenas always takes into account what the patient wants and doesn't base his decision on any personal preference.  However, decisions about specific surgical procedures and methods shouldn't be made arbitrarily or unilaterally.  They should be made jointly by both the patient and surgeon.

Sometimes only one established surgical procedure is appropriate to achieve the desired result and it is the surgeon's duty to explain this to the patient.  If, on the other hand, the surgical approach preferred by the patient doesn't put the final result at risk and is otherwise acceptable, Dr. Cardenas will perform the exact procedure requested even if another procedure might also work.  In all cases, the patient must agree to the selected list of procedures and sign a consent form that lists each procedure and the associated risks.  In no case would a procedure be performed which was not authorized by the patient in writing before the surgery.

We know that most of our patients don't want to spend their money needlessly, so Dr. Cardenas only recommends FFS procedures which will actually help the patient achieve her goal.  Despite the fact that we are able to charge more for Type III forehead bone reconstruction, it is not ethical for us to insist on this approach merely for financial reasons or to give us a competitive advantage over surgeons that don't offer the procedure.  The truth is that conventional forehead bone contouring is often appropriate and will produce the same result as the Type III procedure while offering the patient a less invasive and therefore safer procedure.  The health and safety of our patients is our highest priority and should trump financial or marketplace motivations.

When it comes to the forehead, patients often arrive with a specific procedure in mind.  Perhaps they have read some of the strong opinions in the online forums which surround this issue.  These opinions influence a lot of patients but many of them lack a sound medical basis.  We've had some patients who expressed an initial preference for the Type III procedure but who ended up opting for conventional forehead bone contouring after meeting with Dr. Cardenas.  In contrast, we've had patients who preferred contouring but elected to have the Type III procedure in the end.  Furthermore, there are cases where the patient authorizes Dr. Cardenas to make the Type III vs. conventional contouring decision in the operating room using a process called transillumination to view the frontal sinus and surrounding bone.  In no case does Dr. Cardenas make such a judgement call in surgery without the patient having authorized it in advance. 

Finally, should a patient needing forehead femeninization insist on Type III forehead bone reconstruction, Dr. Cardenas will perform this procedure even if he determines that conventional contouring would also work.  In all cases, he presents his recommendation, explains the benefits and risks, and let's the patient make a medically-informed decision.

Hi Everyone,

Dr. Cardenas' and the Transop team are right, and the board member expressing their dissatisfaction are right too. I think probably the best thing to do is not only to keep the discussion civil but actually to go beyond words, to include photographs as evidence of any claims. Afterall, that's how patients and doctors evaluate results - with physical, visible evidence. Pictures not only speak louder, but say what words cannot.

    I'll speak for only myself when I made some judgement for my decision. Dr. Cardenas does do Type 3's, that not up for debate in my opinion. Some of the results on the website you can see the frontal sinus is moved back (pictures 2 and 10). However, it seems the best results are from patients who do not need very aggressive type 3's. That's my observation. I may be wrong but Dr. Cardenas, like many other surgeons including Dr. Zukowski, create flatter foreheads by using bone cement on the upper forehead. Pictures 5 and 11 I think may be a good example of this. I believe in my opinion, no disrespect meant, that Dr. Cardenas could have moved the frontal sinus back further for all of these examples. It's hard to say without x-rays.

   He was not the right doctor for me. I needed a very aggressive type 3 and I did not want any significant amount of bone cement used to flatten the forehead. Dr. Rossi was able to do that and I'm thankful for him (perhaps that's besides the point). If possible at all, Radialan, are there any photos of an aggressive type 3? Considering Dr. Cardenas has been doing these surgeries for almost two decades, it would be fantastic to see some of that great work. Of course patient privacy is the utmost importance and is the law. Personally I have no problem sharing the great work my doctor did with others. Certainly some of Dr. Cardenas' patients must feel the same. And I see no reason why any thread containing photographic evidence  should be deleted or considered defamatory. Keep your words civil, always, and use photos. Enough said.

   Better photographs to give a more balanced view, that's what I'd like to see. I've seen some of the less than satisfying results from Dr. Cardena's surgeries. Mistakes happen like you said. So lets see some of those great type 3's if at all possible.

    On a side note, I really don't think before/afters with a significant amount of make up should be used. In my opinion, before/afters should be done in the most ethical way possible. T-change (Amanda and Dr. Rossi) for example have a good policy of showing honest before/afters, with no make up, in the same position and sizes. That's the best way to do it. That really solidified my trust enough to make my final decision. I don't have any connection to them other than being a happy former patient.

     - Ruby

     

Ruby, thanks for your input.  You've done a good job of articulating in previous posts why you opted to go with the new FFS surgeon in Argentina. We have nothing but respect for your decision and viewpoint, even if we don't agree with it. 

As a provider of Facial Feminization Surgery, our before & after photos are available on our own website and on our Facebook page.  This forum is non-commercial in nature and we try to limit our responses here to direct rebuttals and to the correction of misleading or incorrect information about Dr. Cardenas and the procedures that he performs.  Besides, we see nothing to gain in reposting our patients' photos here only to have them dissected and criticized by those who are already biased.

 :police:

A couple of quick reminders everyone. I appreciate that some are trying to help keep things in check, but please remember leave moderating to the moderators. Secondly, lets also remember bashing of a surgeon isn't allowed either.  Thanks
Mariah

It's easy to figure out. If someone who is living in Mexico requiring FFS, why would they then go to another country for it. Do they know something that everyone else doesn't. It's easy to figure out. I also thought that "Susans Place" had stopped anyone affiliated with a surgeon, from coming on here. So I politely ask the administration staff why they continually allow Radialan to post on this site when they clearly know who he works for.

Locked for review.

 :police:
This thread has run its course. No good can come from keeping it open. The fact is some may or may not be happy with the work a particular surgeon may do. After having the rules flirted with and even past in several cases already in this thread it has really boiled down to personal attacks and arguing over what opinions some have of a particular surgeon.  Here are some TOS that need to be kept in mind because all were either flirted with or broke in this thread. Thread will remain locked. Thanks
Mariah
2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policies, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have any issues, contact Susan by email (susan@susans.org), or forum private message, and not bring these types of issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to handle problems of this nature see item #20 below.

3. Posting is a privilege, not a right. We have the inherent right to block access to our services to anyone for any reason. We also have the right to disable or remove from any account features and/or functionality of this website, and to edit or remove any posting from any forum for any reason.

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7. Leave moderating to the moderators! Susan and her staff are the only people who are authorized to deny anyone access to this website, including telling someone to leave, or to stop discussing a topic.  If someone wishes to discuss a subject that you are not interested in,  suggest a new subject; go to another of the many areas on this site; or ignore that person, topic, or discussion.

Members should immediately report any messages both public and private that they feel may possibly be abusive, inappropriate, unwelcome, or unsolicited contact attempts, to staff using the Report links in posts and personal messages.

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:

• Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
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15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand. Members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.

Cindy
The Forum Administrator
*
*

I will close this board if there is any more carry on

Arguments and comments on this forum
« on: August 22, 2015, 06:56:45 am »

I realise that FFS raises intense interest. I also know that there are malicious and unhelpful comments on this forum.

I find this so sad. Many women want or may need FFS and the people here can help each other in an open and honest way. I appreciate the posters who have revealed their professional relationship with teams. Thank you.

But I will not tolerate libel, trash talking, or other rude comments about various teams be you a client or a team member.

if such activity continues I will close this area down for a period. That would be a great sorrow and a bad outcome for the majority of women who want honesty and truth about their procedures.

Honesty and truth can be posted in a civil and helpful way without insult.

I will leave it to you if you want this area left open or if I close it.

I hope your posts and actions allow me to keep this area open for the benefit of all of you.

Cindy
Forum Admin