Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm reading "Whipping Girl" and found the following:

Quotewhy my first experiences masturbating as a teen ... involved me spreading my legs, placing my hand on my crotch, and rocking my hand back and forth the way many girls instinctively do it.

My way was similar... but I was face down. I'd place my hand between and use my body to rub. I'm still exploring my past a lot...

Is this something others have experienced?

No. I used a vibrator. I pretended i had a vagina thats it. Masturbation has nothing to do with anything.

Quote from: kabit on September 08, 2013, 08:58:12 PM
I'm reading "Whipping Girl" and found the following:

My way was similar... but I was face down. I'd place my hand between and use my body to rub. I'm still exploring my past a lot...

Is this something others have experienced?

Mine was similar. I was very young and the softness of my pjs felt good and weird so I moved my hand down there in flat open palmed way. It wasn't until later that I got the concept of the male method. Now it sickens me. I just want it changed.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on September 08, 2013, 09:09:01 PM
Masturbation has nothing to do with anything.

What do you mean by this?

Uhm, it came as a compulsion, when I was maybe 9 or 10 (my puberty was slow but started early).

I think my first, first experience with it was when I was trying to get my glans out of my foreskin because a doctor was scaring my mother and I with talk of circumcision. I tried to get it out by repeatedly "slamming" it against its "limit", somewhat gently. Naturally it brought an erection, and such. That was maybe when I was 7 or 8.

Then the real first time I felt compelled to masturbate was in fourth (?) grade, as I said at first, when I was 9 or 10. It was really strong, and I really had to. I hid in the washroom and did it. It was the male way. Pumping. Oh gosh it felt awful. Even more awful when an annoying friend I had at the time (for the longest time I was only friends with those who would take anyone as friends - the rejects: the mentally challenged, the liars, the fat... in retrospective I think I sort of enjoyed feeling superior to them) caught me causing so much vibration in the stall, and I had to spend so much effort convincing him that I was trying to take a stain off. I would've never admitted it, then or later. Masturbation was always an enormous source of shame for me.

At some point, puberty entered stage two and the compulsion became very intense. At that point I started to use, uhm, material on the Internet. But at that point genital dysphoria had seriously kicked in, too, which made masturbation, which was never a remotely pleasant experience, worse than ever. So I almost always did it without ever removing my pants, so I wouldn't have to see it, and keeping the ejaculate in, so that I would feel less of the awful feeling of that stuff coming out. Honestly, in the beginning, I wasn't thinking I should have female genitals, just that I shouldn't have male ones. I was uhm... putting my hand around it and just closing my hand repeatedly. It felt less wrong that way. Still pretty wrong, though.

I never tried to do it like women do a lot, really, because doing that would require me to see and feel the thing a lot, which I didn't want at all. The only way I could remotely imagine something else was when I was just repeatedly closing my hand in my pants, never looking at anything but the screen. It was the only way I could get myself to a very unpleasant climax that would calm the thing down for a while.

Really, all I thought about was get rid of the arousal. It took hold of me like a demon, made me think horrible things and do very disgusting things at times. I just wasn't myself at all when it came. Ugh, I shiver just thinking about it.

Oh, actually, I just remembered. There was this awfully shameful episode when I was maybe 6, and watching TV on my mother's bed with my sister. Hidden under the blankets, I had undone my full-body pajamas and started to masturbate at some muscular character on the TV. Something like that, I think. Though it's pretty vague, and I'm not sure if it counts as masturbating, as children that young are prone to playing with their genitals just like that.

And that's it. This was probably my most embarrassing post ever.

We had a whole thread about this in Sexuality part of this forum.
Ah, nevermind, it was in "Just for us" section, which is now for subscribers only...

Maybe I should subscribe :D
I did a quick search, but search tends to not work so well..... and just try searching for this info on Google ;)

I just thought it was really strange, when reading this passage in the book, to realize that among all the other signs I had a more female way to do this, too. Not everyone has every piece of evidence, but this was one I'd completely overlooked until now. I remember reading that something like 5% of adolescent males do it this way (face down) but now I wonder if they are still holding the penis, or if they're rubbing against the hand like I did. It's not mimicking sex... I've always preferred to be on the bottom.

And dang, it's tough talking about stuff like this... even here  :angel: The soul searching part of coming out (especially later in life) can be difficult to do - it was all either suppressed and hard to dig up, or it just felt normal to me at the time.

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 08, 2013, 09:21:25 PM
What do you mean by this?

A male WITH a PENIS can't masturbate like a female with a vagina. And how do people know how teenage girls nmasturbate. Just writing this is gross.

Hentai happened to me when I was 10.

That is all.

No, I touched myself where it felt good and applied motion in the easiest and most practical manner, I was never afraid to directly touch any of my body parts.  Also I transitioned in order to have the social experience of being female which was my primary need.  The sexual aspect of transition wasn't something I anticipated or planned for though I am grateful I had SRS because it allows my body to more completely conform to my being. 

Weird topic. I never thought of that. They actually have a book that describes the differences of girls vs mens first time masturbation? Phew. But what does it say really. Some things just work for both sexes (like rubbing with or without touching yourself) and others only for one but the latter are linked to physical realities, right? I dont quite get this. Personally I had mental troubles touching myself in that way as a teenager up to 10 years or so later when surgery changed that. But again I dont really get it if there is a difference that actually can be used for anything in terms of finding "identity spots" - spots in your past that "prove" you are TS and that you can point to as a marker if people ask you for justification - or if youself need that justification. I remember that game. It was like an easter egg hunt in the own life and past to find as many eggs that show "see I am TS" when in reality all these points only served the purpose of serving as a justification for a feeling, an emotional response, an identity and a decision that was already made and would not change with or without such "proof". If one point is not working out, one will look deeper to find more. Because it is not really about finding enough evidence to make a conclusion but it is about finding evidence that the conclusion that is already drawn is justifyable ;)

I'm not gonna share my first experience, but I will say that "the female way" was the first way I tried to do it. So reading this thread reveals a lot more to me about myself then I thought it would!

Also, without going into too much detail, my wife says I masturbate like a girl.

I have a tiny Penis. Till I was 15 I never masturbated... lol weird right but I honestly never knew I could do that I only had wet dreams. Then at 16 began blockers and masterbated 10 times after thyat for a sperm bank that was it. So literally done it 12 times and well not like a girl cuz it wouldnt work. AH well I can wait for srs till I do it again :D

Quote from: anjaq on September 09, 2013, 07:47:30 AM
Weird topic. I never thought of that. They actually have a book that describes the differences of girls vs mens first time masturbation? Phew. But what does it say really. Some things just work for both sexes (like rubbing with or without touching yourself) and others only for one but the latter are linked to physical realities, right? I dont quite get this. Personally I had mental troubles touching myself in that way as a teenager up to 10 years or so later when surgery changed that. But again I dont really get it if there is a difference that actually can be used for anything in terms of finding "identity spots" - spots in your past that "prove" you are TS and that you can point to as a marker if people ask you for justification - or if youself need that justification. I remember that game. It was like an easter egg hunt in the own life and past to find as many eggs that show "see I am TS" when in reality all these points only served the purpose of serving as a justification for a feeling, an emotional response, an identity and a decision that was already made and would not change with or without such "proof". If one point is not working out, one will look deeper to find more. Because it is not really about finding enough evidence to make a conclusion but it is about finding evidence that the conclusion that is already drawn is justifyable ;)

The book is "Whipping Girl" by Julia Serano and it doesn't go into the differences between young people's techniques. It's her own story and ideas about gender and sexism as a scientist (genetics) and trans* woman.

I'm not looking for proof. Examining one's past is not about proof but about discovery. I'm realizing that a lot of things make sense now that didn't make sense before. I'm uncovering hidden memories (that I won't get into... basically stuff I did to myself that I'm not proud of nor would do today) that are real now. Are you claiming this is a bad practice? I think my therapist and all the books I've read thus far would disagree.

Yes, it's a weird topic... sorry. There aren't many places I'd post something like this. There aren't many I could post something like this! I'm glad this place is friendly enough that I can post things and questions I wouldn't ever talk about or ask in a cissexist world.

Quote from: kabit on September 09, 2013, 12:36:59 PMI'm not looking for proof. Examining one's past is not about proof but about discovery. I'm realizing that a lot of things make sense now that didn't make sense before. I'm uncovering hidden memories (that I won't get into... basically stuff I did to myself that I'm not proud of nor would do today) that are real now. Are you claiming this is a bad practice? I think my therapist and all the books I've read thus far would disagree.

Ha, no worries. I did not mean to be sounding offensive. I just know that stage. One has discovered and admitted to oneself that something is not right, that body and social role do not match ones inner feelings and then one looks for these discoveries - I would say that in part yes one always looks for a confirmation because at least most people who transition after lets say age 20 or so that I met had some degree of uncertainty if this really is "it", if there was no other explanation or if they were not just "fooling themseves". Then the journey into the past starts and one starts to notice all the little things that never matched up, that make more sense if looked at in the new light and this certainly serves as confirmation of the persistence of ones inner identity (e.g. that it is not a "fad" as parents or family tries to proclaim, but that it was there all along). Its not a bad thing, no not really, though admittedly one is a bit biased and sometimes tends to minimize those situations that do not match so well - these are then dismissed as being a "facade" or something like that - not the real identity. If anything in what I want to say about this is critical it would be that one has to take care not to throw too much of the own identity into that pot and maybe try to burn it. Maybe a MtF actually really likes football or big cars and it was not something only to be done to keep up a male facade. I know some people did that and later missed these things, which then caused more uncertainty. I think I did some things, too, but one can just get over with it and so I am using a chainsaw, do woodworking but also like weaving and sewing - I am just a bit of a butch like my mom was and thats ok for me. I am not saying that you do that, by the way, it is just an observation and maybe a word of caution if you did not figure this issue out anyways ;) - Exploring the past and looking at it in the new light certainly is a good thing, it is healthy, it is enlightening and it can serve well as a confirmation and reassurance of ones chosen path. I had to write some tens of pages of this stuff when I saw the therapist that had to sign off on surgery - took me quite a while to take that journey and work up all the old situations ;) . I even mentioned masturbating actually, but I will not tell too much about that here in public ;)

I didn't do anything like you girls describe, I felt guilty afterwards but at the time I just did it "Normally" Closed my eyes imagined a girl I thought was cute and waggled.

The amusing part came from my inexperience, I was 13 at the time. I'd seen pornography and the actors were always screaming and vocalizing loudly, I got it into my head that this was an involuntary thing that the experience must be so intense that you shout from begin overwhelmed. So I'd locked myself in the bathroom because I was scared that if I orgasmed I would scream and everyone would know if I was locked in the bathroom I could say I tripped.

However the extra funny bit came in that I was standing up as I did it, and what they don't tell you is your knees give out if you orgasm standing up... so I did fall over and end up shouting.

Quote from: anjaq on September 09, 2013, 02:08:28 PM
Ha, no worries. I did not mean to be sounding offensive. I just know that stage. [...]

I understand completely. My diary is up to 83 pages, myself... in 5 weeks :D The topics vary completely... but there is a decent amount of searching through lost memory. I also understand that (and why) we have masculine and feminine attributes. That's completely natural.

Don't worry for me. I completely agree with your sentiments. I know who I am and I'm exploring my past with that goal in mind. My masculine activities (such as they were) have not gone completely by the wayside, though my favorite of them has to some degree: I can't diet and drink craft beers.... but it will be coming back once I'm at my target ~ and no - I won't ever be overdoing it on the drinking, either. I have no problem with women that have masculine interests or attributes. I'm obviously not cis, but I've never been cissexist... and I won't place that burden on my own transition either. In fact, I discussed this with my therapist today. (He seemed impressed, but I've always been a quick learner ;) ;) )

Sorry for the offensive topic... I wouldn't usually start something like this, but it was a big surprise to me last night when that epiphany hit...

Looking back on my own life I would say there is much more value in discovering who you are than there is in figuring out why you are the way you are.  For one thing coming up with evidence for why transition is the right thing to do is a waste of time, you don't have to prove anything to anyone, just do what it is that you need to do with your life.  And you will never find out who you are if you don't begin making things happen.  Typically at the end of a person's life he or she tends to regret most the things he or she never did, never accomplished, not the things he or she did do, the things he or she failed to do.


From the Movie 'Total Recall' 2012

QuoteMatthias: Mr. Hauser, What is it you want?

Doug Quaid: I want to help you.

Matthias: That is not the only reason you are here.

Doug Quaid: I want to remember.

Matthias: Why?

Doug Quaid: So I can be myself, be who I was.

Matthias: It is each man's quest to find out who he truly is, but the answer to that lies in the present, not in the past. As it is for all of us.

Doug Quaid: But the past tells us who we've become.

Matthias: The past is a construct of the mind. It blinds us. It fools us into believing it. But the heart wants to live in the present. Look there. You'll find your answer.

It takes a specific personality type to be able to move on into the present without understanding the past, and honestly I'm not in that case.

We sort of have an interesting dilemma here.

Prior to the reorganization of the site, this would have gone straight over to the Sexuality Board in the Just For Us Section.

These conversations belong there.  But, I don't want to cut people off from their posts.  Ideas?

Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on September 09, 2013, 11:56:35 AM
I have a tiny Penis. Till I was 15 I never masturbated... lol weird right but I honestly never knew I could do that I only had wet dreams. Then at 16 began blockers and masterbated 10 times after thyat for a sperm bank that was it. So literally done it 12 times and well not like a girl cuz it wouldnt work. AH well I can wait for srs till I do it again :D

Hey, its not weird :P. I never masturbated till I was 23 (yeah, I know, nobody would believe anyway), because I literally had no idea what I was supposed to do down there.

Quote from: A on September 09, 2013, 10:59:31 PM
It takes a specific personality type to be able to move on into the present without understanding the past, and honestly I'm not in that case.

I can relate to that. It seems to me like understanding the past and understanding the present are part of the same process.

A, I think you are right there - it is not something that is done easily by everyone. Nowadays, I think I would have less of a hard time to do this and just say forget the past, think about now. Back then with all the insecurity and stunted personality I would not have been able to do so. Transitioning helped me to grow in that sense. Its like a tree that wants to grow but at a young age always the new branches are cut and only the ones the gardener wants are left standing - not because it is good for the tree but because the tree then gives more fruit or fits better in the arrangement of the garden. When the gardener goes away the tree can finally grow and become a full healthy tree. Some of the old branches are kept, most die off as they are overshadowed by the new growth on top. Some of the old cuts will remain as scars, still noticeable but fading and maybe new branches replace the ones that were cut. Of course that tree then also disturbs the arrangement of the garden to the dismay of those who want it arranged orderly but a wild garden can be much more beautiful than one that is carefully arranged. So a personality who is like that tree will at first maybe not have the ability to think that way, to just look at the present, as there is too much uncertainty and fear of being hurt again. Looking at what has happened, at where those branches were cut and to realize that they have been cut is painful but it allows to grow back these branches and because we are not trees we can actually drive back that gardener once we have found out that we ourselves are also the gardener, carrying out orders from the masters - the society around us.

Erm - maybe that was a bit too metaphoric. In short: Yes it is a personality issue, not one that cannot be changed and certainly different people can have differet ways to get there and look at the present more than the past. To be blind against the past is also not good and that is what mayn transpeople do pre-transition. Not look at the past as it is just full of shi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMn8Es5cPCE

New neural pathways are created every time we remember a memory which causes the memory to change every time we remember it.

Quote from: Kate G on September 10, 2013, 08:40:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMn8Es5cPCE

New neural pathways are created every time we remember a memory which causes the memory to change every time we remember it.

I asked that question of my therapist. When you find "new" memories (lost ones) how can you be sure they're real and not imagined. His explanation boiled down to... your memories are influenced by your present - any emotions you have now or the stimuli you get from your environment (i.e. family and friends)... even past memories. This is an influence - it doesn't create new memories. Creating new memories from nothing (and don't quote me or my therapist - this was a few weeks ago) is a psychological problem of delusion.

I compared it to the Kurosawa movie "Rashomon." A crime occurs and is replayed back through the eyes of all the witnesses... each memory drastically different. This covers different people seeing the same scene, but also relates to the same person over time... the scene changes. (The "Rashomon Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_effect)" is also apparently a psychological principle)

Yes, the memories are important (at least to me ;) )... no they aren't everything.

Your perceptions of reality are heavily weighted by your expectations of reality.  These expectations are based on years and years of witnessing cause and effect relationships through an emotional lens.  Consciousness doesn't interact directly with reality, only a model of reality that is created within our own mind, and this model is being constantly refined based on new data and our feelings about said data.  So each memory gets saved as an impression of an event and the emotional context of the event.  Memories do not get saved in a loss-less format though for purposes of saving space in the presence of compressible information.  When you remember something, your brain pulls up the impression of the event and the emotion context of the event, then uses your current mental model of reality and current emotional state to fill in the gaps.  This act of remembering is transformative for the memory as it is re-saved using the current model of reality and emotional context.

It seems mine was kind of weird, when I was in middle school, the prettiest girl in school,  asked me if I masturbated on the school bus and I said no, and didn't know what it was. She called over the coolest guy on the bus, and he explained in detail as to how guys masturbate, and then she added that girls do it differently, but she does it all the time and it's a lot of fun, which cool guy agreed with. That night was, well you can imagine...

wow, that must have been a very awkward bus ride... kids these days ;-p

Quote from: pebbles on September 09, 2013, 04:24:38 PM
I didn't do anything like you girls describe, I felt guilty afterwards but at the time I just did it "Normally" Closed my eyes imagined a girl I thought was cute and waggled.

This is pretty much what I do. Imagining myself as a guy just doesn't work for me.
I have came up with a different way for me to do it, and it is a hella lot better, it just takes too much time.

As for my first time, I was 15, I had clothes on, and I was simulating sex as if I were a woman. I honestly had no idea about orgasms and that sort, so when it happened, I started freaking out a little. Luckily I was home alone, so I hurried and threw my clothes in the washer and I was like "I am not doing that again." lol This may get a bit personal, but I tell ya, that first time, I would say was the best time.

As silly as it sounds, my first time happened by accident.  I was 11 and was in bed getting ready to go to sleep wearing a nightgown I had managed to sneak from my mom's closet.  I had shifted position and the nightgown had brushed against down there and the silkiness of it felt really good.  I then proceeded like it sounds others had and approached it like a young girl would.  When the moment arrived it scared the crap out of me. I knew about sex and how everything worked, I just didn't realize masturbation was a thing--I for some reason thought that climax was something that required a partner, so for a second there I thought I broke something or had some sort of serious problem.

Ok - now I will share also a bit of an intimate thing and see if someone can relate. I felt a lot of guilt and shame about sexuality and did not want these urges. But of course they were still there. So what I did a few times was really weird. I took as many slips (underwear) as I could (not from mothers closet or anything) from my box and pulled them up one by one until I could not see or feel the genitals I had then - except as a dampened fuzzy sense of being touched. And then I did this masturbating thing. It hurt a bit but to me it was much better than the other way, as I felt like I was "flat". Does that make sense? It was when I was really young at beginning of puberty - later things changed, though.