Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was just thinking about how hard it is to come out as TG, even to yourself!  I know I spent years and years in denial, trying to hide what I am from the world and at times, even from myself, and it got me wondering how many people out there are doing the same thing?  I have a feeling that for each of us who acknowledge that we are transgender, there must be some, maybe many, who are in denial or hiding.

The world in making progress, and I see many young people transitioning earlier and earlier, which is great!  To stop your body taking you through puberty as the wrong sex? Nice bullet-time move!  When I was a kid I got beat up all the time just for being feminine by kids who wanted to 'help me' toughen up.  I'm not sure what would have happened if I went to school in a dress.  ???

Getting off topic, though.  What do you think the ratio is of how many are hiding for each of us who is out (to at least ourselves)? 5? 50? 500?  I honestly have no clue, but curious what people think.

Totally off topic, but we had an article posted on the site awhile back about what not to say, and I had to hold up my hand and plead guilty to using "transgendered"

The article pointed out that you wouldn't call Barack Obama "blacked" and you wouldn't call Vladimir Putin "russianed"

Just saying. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2013, 09:27:25 PM
You wouldn't call Vladimir Putin "russianed"

I would

Back on topic.  I think if I had to guess, I'd say 32:1.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2013, 09:27:25 PM
Totally off topic, but we had an article posted on the site awhile back about what not to say, and I had to hold up my hand and plead guilty to using "transgendered"

The article pointed out that you wouldn't call Barack Obama "blacked" and you wouldn't call Vladimir Putin "russianed"

Just saying. Hugs, Devlyn

But one would say the US has been "Obama'd", and Russia has been "Putin'd."  >:-)

OP: Yes, I think we are the beginning. I'd say there are a LOT of transgendered people out there, more proportionately than TS people...if there's 100 to 1 TG (non-TS), there's maybe 10-1 TS. Of course, I am sure I am wrong entirely.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 15, 2013, 09:32:09 PM
Of course, I am sure I am wrong entirely.

Part of becoming a true Canadian Beth.

I think you two are just picking a fighted with me!  >:-)

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2013, 09:35:01 PM
I think you two are just picking a fighted with me!  >:-)

I would be so happy if I knew that "fighted" was not on purpose.  Sorry I'm going off topic here lol.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 15, 2013, 09:27:25 PM
Totally off topic, but we had an article posted on the site awhile back about what not to say, and I had to hold up my hand and plead guilty to using "transgendered"

The article pointed out that you wouldn't call Barack Obama "blacked" and you wouldn't call Vladimir Putin "russianed"

Just saying. Hugs, Devlyn

The sad thing is that I know that and I usually don't use the 'ed' but it slipped through that time.  Oops!

Thanks for catching it.  Guess I'll go edit it and make your reply make no sense. muahahahaha!

hugs,
Marissa

The guy head of the trans center here thinks the no. of trans people is something like 1 out of 230. I am not sure what he is going by, but he does include everyone and not just people who we might more traditionally think of as trans. But people who are gender nonconforming in many respects and children who might not continue to be gender nonconforming as they age.
So if that is even anywhere close to being true then we are definitely the tip fo the iceberg. I hate transgendered hurts my ears.

--Jay

Quote from: Marissa on September 15, 2013, 09:43:37 PM
The sad thing is that I know that and I usually don't use the 'ed' but it slipped through that time.  Oops!

Thanks for catching it.  Guess I'll go edit it and make your reply make no sense. muahahahaha!

hugs,
Marissa

Look everyone, you can tell she's a new member because she thinks you have to do something for my posts to make no sense!  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn

Marissa, I am not sure about the whole iceberg thing- I know that is were I am at is this never ending circle. Today I feel more transgender then I did yesterday. The thing that gets me is when I think of it and list my reasons out in my head I for awhile solidify I am transgender. Yet the next day that feeling goes away, and even when it goes away I find myself practicing my voice, then I wonder why I am practicing and I come full circle.

I don't think it is a easy thing for people to come to terms with.

I think I am rambling sorry!

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 15, 2013, 09:33:45 PM
Part of becoming a true Canadian Beth.

;)

Quote from: Aina on September 15, 2013, 10:21:29 PM
Marissa, I am not sure about the whole iceberg thing- I know that is were I am at is this never ending circle. Today I feel more transgender then I did yesterday. The thing that gets me is when I think of it and list my reasons out in my head I for awhile solidify I am transgender. Yet the next day that feeling goes away, and even when it goes away I find myself practicing my voice, then I wonder why I am practicing and I come full circle.

I don't think it is a easy thing for people to come to terms with.

I think I am rambling sorry!

Don't be sorry, by  all means, ramble on!

I understand what you mean; it is incredibly difficult to come to terms with.  I wasted decades turning circles and while I have no doubt now that I am TG, I don't know if I'll ever be confident.  I just know I need to keep moving forward to survive...OMG maybe I'm a shark! :P

Quote from: Marissa on September 15, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
Don't be sorry, by  all means, ramble on!

I understand what you mean; it is incredibly difficult to come to terms with.  I wasted decades turning circles and while I have no doubt now that I am TG, I don't know if I'll ever be confident.  I just know I need to keep moving forward to survive...OMG maybe I'm a shark! :P

that would explain all the transphobia... most sharks don't eat people, but too many weird movies have convinced people otherwise.

I tend to use transgender - I don't think I've heard transgendered.  What's the difference between transgender and transsexual?  Some people use transgender to mean pre-op and transsexual to mean post-op.  Some people just seem embarrassed to pronounce the word "sex" at all.  When I was at school nouns had masculine or feminine (or neuter) gender and birds and animals had male of female sex.  These days it seems we have to have masculine or feminine gender as if we were just words and not people.

Actually I prefer just to be a woman.  If it's relevant, like here, I'm a t-woman.  Most of the time it isn't.

Quote from: Taka on September 16, 2013, 02:34:49 AM
that would explain all the transphobia... most sharks don't eat people, but too many weird movies have convinced people otherwise.

Actually, my joke was accidentally perpetuating a myth about sharks.  My understanding is that some of them (like nurse sharks) are fine staying still.  I think some of them need to keep moving to keep water moving across their gills but I haven't studied marine biology or anything so that just falls under the heading of 'stuff I've heard.'

Quote from: MaryXYX on September 16, 2013, 06:42:27 AM
I tend to use transgender - I don't think I've heard transgendered.  What's the difference between transgender and transsexual?  Some people use transgender to mean pre-op and transsexual to mean post-op.  Some people just seem embarrassed to pronounce the word "sex" at all.  When I was at school nouns had masculine or feminine (or neuter) gender and birds and animals had male of female sex.  These days it seems we have to have masculine or feminine gender as if we were just words and not people.

Actually I prefer just to be a woman.  If it's relevant, like here, I'm a t-woman.  Most of the time it isn't.

The wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender) for 'Transgender' has a pretty good explanation I think of the terms but of course it's all open to individual interpretation.  Here's an excerpt from it:

Distinguishing transgender from transsexuality

Transsexual was defined by Harry Benjamin in his seminal book The Transsexual Phenomenon.[16] Benjamin invented a classification system for transsexuals and ->-bleeped-<-s; he called his system the Sex Orientation Scale (SOS). In the SOS, Benjamin assigns transsexuals and ->-bleeped-<-s to one of six categories based on their reasons for crossdressing, and the relative urgency of their need (if any) for sex reassignment surgery.[16] Many transsexuals believe that to be a true transsexual, a person needs to have a desire for surgery.[17] However, it is notable that Benjamin's moderate intensity "true transsexual" needs either estrogen or testosterone as a "substitute for or preliminary to operation."[16] There are also people who have had sexual reassignment surgery (SRS), but do not meet the definition of a transsexual,[18][19] while other people do not desire SRS, yet clearly meet Benjamin Scale definition of a "true transsexual", such as Miriam Rivera.

In addition to the larger categories of transgender and transsexual, there is a wide range of gender expressions and identities which are contrary to the mainstream male-female binary. These include cross dressers, drag queens, drag kings, ->-bleeped-<-s, genderqueer, etc.

Well, that's  just 1 definition.  A lot of people use 'transgender' as an umbrella term to describe everyone who doesn't adhere to a traditional gender binary defined by your birth gender.  The issue with transgendered vs. transgender is that the former makes us sound like we've been victimized and the latter is just who/what we are.  That's why I usually avoid the 'ed.'

I'm fine with "transgender" meaning a wide spectrum, and "transsexual" meaning someone who has at least an intention of making physical changes.  That seems a common usage.  I'm on hormones and planning surgery but I prefer TG.

I always say trans*, with the asterisk, since it is meant to include people who identify as transgender, transsexual, crossdresser, or gender nonconforming

Quote from: MaryXYX on September 16, 2013, 02:04:28 PM
I'm fine with "transgender" meaning a wide spectrum, and "transsexual" meaning someone who has at least an intention of making physical changes.  That seems a common usage.  I'm on hormones and planning surgery but I prefer TG.

I am on hormones and intend to have surgery someday and I identify myself as TS ;).

Yes we are the tip.

Trans*, transgender. transgendered or transsexual, I do not care, just don't call me Sir or Mister.

Transsexuals only transition when the discomfort of of maintaining their current gender exceeded the exceeds the the total costs (financial, social, emotional,etc) of transitioning. When the total costs to transition are lowered, more people will transition at a lower cost threshold which is why we see more people coming out and transitioning now vs. any time in the past.

So you can safely assume that for every person whose dysphoria exceeds today's aggregate cost of transition, there will be many others that would really like to but their discomfort isn't bad enough to risk or pay the costs involved.

As time goes by any transsexualism is accepted more, we will see people transitioning in greater numbers and at younger ages because it just won't be that big of a deal and their total costs to do so wont be remotely close to what we face today.

Wow, that's well thought out Jessica, thanks.  It doesn't really account for the state of the economy in recent years; has the financial cost to transition been decreasing?  I believe the social cost is dropping though, so maybe that makes up for the economic side.  I hope your prediction is right!

I used to flatter myself and thought I had pretty accurate gaydar.  I was wrong and happily will not repeat that mistake with my evolving transdar as people continue to surprise me and help me think outside the usual boxes.  I find our endless variation an almost intoxicating lure to explore and often consider the labels an impediment to deeper understanding.  Some of the first books I read about us used transgendered as did therapists and other professionals.  Obviously we do evolve.......

Yes we are some tip of the iceberg but who is on the titanic this time?

To answer the question of how hard it is to come out -- even to yourself --  for me I find it very hard.  Impossible at times it seems.  Like many I imagine I find myself running and hiding inside of my alter ego -- that front of a person I built -- only to be cold, hard, unfeeling and miserable -- a shell of a human being walking around in the dark.  Despite how unpleasant that sounds it is easy for me to get lost over there.  Why?  Because the me that has been hiding for so long from everyone has so little idea of what to do with herself, never mind the monumental task of facing the reality of taking over a very successful life, marriage, and business that relies solely on the 1:1 relationship HE has with HIS clients.  That, and, frankly I am very afraid.  Yikes.  Sorry for ranting -- just felt like chiming in.  How many?  I have no idea -- even if I knew the real numbers it wouldn't offer me any comfort or any solace.  I'm just thankful right now that I have all of you.  There is comfort and solace in knowing that.

Quote from: Tessa James on September 17, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
Yes we are some tip of the iceberg but who is on the titanic this time?

I hope the Titanic is a metaphor for prejudice. ;)

Quote from: Terri on September 17, 2013, 01:20:50 PM
I'm just thankful right now that I have all of you.  There is comfort and solace in knowing that.

Thanks for posting that, Terri!  Posts like that give me 'comfort and solace' and remind me that I'm not alone.

I read someplace recently that said a single doctor on the East Coast performs about 200 top surgeries a year; that's just one doctor. And just one procedure. Multiply that by how many surgeons perform top surgeries for trans folk* around the world, and then take that number and likely multiply that by two (for trans-masculine and trans-feminine) and you might get something close to a real number.

I would honestly say that we are definitely more than 1% of the population.

Quote from: Terri on September 17, 2013, 01:20:50 PM
To answer the question of how hard it is to come out -- even to yourself --  for me I find it very hard.  Impossible at times it seems.

I kinda just slipped out of the closet... or maybe fell out. I had coping mechanisms and one of them impacted my health...pair that with a period of very high dysphoria, and bam.

I was into the cross-dreaming stuff. There is a big community there and I think most of them are uncounted. Stories, pictures, interactive fiction, etc... it's not as big as some other niche groups (furry, for one), but there's a lot of crossover between transformation and transgender.

You can also figure that some of the hate and fear comes from those who question their own -ininity and/or gender. The same is said of homosexual hatred and homophobia.


Btw... stupid Kindle tried to autocorrect transgender to transgendered.

Quote from: Marissa on September 17, 2013, 12:13:34 PM
Wow, that's well thought out Jessica, thanks.  It doesn't really account for the state of the economy in recent years; has the financial cost to transition been decreasing?  I believe the social cost is dropping though, so maybe that makes up for the economic side.  I hope your prediction is right!

The main "cost" I was referring to was the social cost. The social cost are what instil so much fear in us and make it so hard for many of us to even accept ourselves. If the negative views and social cost were totally removed, almost all trans people would come out at a much younger age and so many people would be sparred the carnage that can be created when we come out and transition later in life.

An economist would be a great person to apply economical theory to this and could probably make a lot more sense out of this than I can. I'm sure it can all be distilled to a mathematical equation.

Quote from: kabit on September 17, 2013, 06:35:18 PM
Btw... stupid Kindle tried to autocorrect transgender to transgendered.

Ah!  That is where "transgendered" comes from - it's Amazonian (in the sense of amazon.com).  My spell checker wants to correct transgender to transcendent or perhaps transgenic.  It accepts transsexual though.

My main objection to transsexual is the assumption many people seem to have that it mean the same as post-op.  I don't want to get into the "A real transsexual is post-op" argument.  I'm open with friends about how far I am through the process and what my intentions are, but for anyone else I'm a woman and if they must know I have some medical issues.

Quote from: MaryXYX on September 19, 2013, 07:33:32 AM
Ah!  That is where "transgendered" comes from - it's Amazonian (in the sense of amazon.com).  My spell checker wants to correct transgender to transcendent or perhaps transgenic.  It accepts transsexual though.

My main objection to transsexual is the assumption many people seem to have that it mean the same as post-op.  I don't want to get into the "A real transsexual is post-op" argument.  I'm open with friends about how far I am through the process and what my intentions are, but for anyone else I'm a woman and if they must know I have some medical issues.

I mentioned in my coming out letter to family that transgender is preferred (mentioned transsexual in a historical perspective from the 90s)

Transcendent certainly weeps apropos.

Quote from: Lo on September 17, 2013, 03:00:17 PM
I read someplace recently that said a single doctor on the East Coast performs about 200 top surgeries a year; that's just one doctor. And just one procedure. Multiply that by how many surgeons perform top surgeries for trans folk* around the world, and then take that number and likely multiply that by two (for trans-masculine and trans-feminine) and you might get something close to a real number.

I would honestly say that we are definitely more than 1% of the population.

I'm pretty sure Dr. Garramone does 500 a year. That's kind of a high number of surgeries. I don't know how many doctors perform that. And you could add all the other surgeons that perform all other procedures and then of course we know that quite a few people don't get surgeries in a given year or never get surgery for whatever reason.
I think 1% isn't an unreasonable no. Esp. since I think you have to include people who are gender noncomforming. So that they might not really identify with the "opposite" gender. But then don't identify with their own natal gender either.

Is "transgendered" the result of autocorrect?! Wow.  :)

--Jay

I think there are quite a few nonbinary trans* people out there; it's a growing identity/community. I think that nonbinary and non-op trans* people count for more than those who transition from one gender to another. Including cultures who recognize third/other genders, my optimistic bet would be that we number at around 2% of the general population.

I hope those estimates are right that there are many more of us than are publicly acknowledged.  It's still not easy but I hope that acceptance will continue to grow and with it, resources to allow all gender nonconforming people to live a life that is right for them!