Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm a little nervous posting this... but here goes!

http://snd.sc/1dHIoi9

Me singing & playing Danny Boy. I sound too male - don't know how to fix it... but I haven't tried yet.
I'll have spoken voice stuff soon! 😀

Ya'all don't want me to sing, I sound like a 12 year old girl.

Well I'll post me singing in my male voice. I have a high singing voice, but while I can speak in a female voice, I haven't quite learned how to sing in a female voice yet. I can a little but it's limited.  :D  I guess i have to stop singing in my lower range. I'm trying to get the tone better though.

This is several years old now. (all the voices and instruments are me)

https://soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon/sweet-dreams

Now I have a question for anyone who was a singer and then had voice surgery; could you sing afterwards? And how long did it take to get your control back?

I'm doing voice training to change my speaking voice, and I have a pretty versatile voice, and like to do cartoon voices and Elmo and stuff, so that's working fairly well. But I'm wondering if surgery would be better, but then wondering if I will still be able to sing. I'd like to have a more feminine singing voice, and have it a little higher.

From the horror stories I've heard regarding voice surgery... I'm not going anywhere near it. I'll be happy to be a low alto / high tenor woman... I'm working on raising my pitch (singing) and worried about damage even w/ that.

Speaking voice is easy, but doesn't feel natural (I suppose that takes a while). I'm working on it, though I think my wife hates it... I do it reading books to the kids 😉

I know two women that had surgery. They didn't have any problems and have nice voices.

Quote from: Miss Bungle on October 01, 2013, 11:14:20 PM
You won't damage your throat as long as you take it easy and pay attention to any signs that you are straining yourself.

I have a decent voice but I'm not going to sing and post it. :D

:) It's mostly my jaw that starts to hurt after a while! It's been too long since I've done any formal singing.

I'd love to hear it, Portia!

Well then Jennygirl should post here once she gets back to singing after her voice surgery 🙂 She seems confident that it will work out.
I dont sing, never could really. I might sing along sometimes but never solo, its too bad 😉

Quote from: anjaq on October 02, 2013, 04:41:25 AM
Well then Jennygirl should post here once she gets back to singing after her voice surgery 🙂 She seems confident that it will work out.
I dont sing, never could really. I might sing along sometimes but never solo, its too bad ;)

Yes I already talked to her. She's starting to be able to sing. I'd love to hear her when she gets her control back.

The thing with the jaw hurting is you need to relax more. I did some songwriting back in the early 90s with a very well known vocal trainer and that was one of the things she showed me. We get tense when we try to sing high, and you need to relax.

My limited time with doing feminine voice training is making me think I'll never have a great singing voice that way because I can already sing high, but the tone is wrong. Plus I won't be able to use my low range.

Jennygirl's speaking voice is amazing and I'd like that. 🙂

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 02, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
The thing with the jaw hurting is you need to relax more. I did some songwriting back in the early 90s with a very well known vocal trainer and that was one of the things she showed me. We get tense when we try to sing high, and you need to relax.

My limited time with doing feminine voice training is making me think I'll never have a great singing voice that way because I can already sing high, but the tone is wrong. Plus I won't be able to use my low range.

I've been working on relaxing more. I sound more feminine at high pitch when I do. I sing to "Demons" by Imagine Dragons (a nice high pitched male group -- so I can easily sound more feminine than them) and "Royals" by Lorde (a beautiful low alto / high tenor young woman). I can now get through both songs and my jaw only starts feeling tense in the second song.

Practice, practice, practice... doubt I'll make it to either Carnegie or Wembley, though! Send me tickets when any of you get there ♥

Women are never tenors, they are contraltos. :)

But yes, relaxing is the key, and it's not easy. Especially if you are playing an instrument at the same time. I'll start to tense up, and not only does my throat start to tighten up, but I'll press my fingers so hard on my bass strings that my fingertips go numb! I'm performing at least every weekend so I need to focus on relaxing and not injuring myself!

I'd hate to lose my singing ability, but if it came down to that, so be it. I'm an accompanist more than a solo artist anyway. I can can concentrate more on playing then.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 02, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
Yes I already talked to her. She's starting to be able to sing. I'd love to hear her when she gets her control back.
[...]
My limited time with doing feminine voice training is making me think I'll never have a great singing voice that way because I can already sing high, but the tone is wrong. Plus I won't be able to use my low range.
Jennygirl's speaking voice is amazing and I'd like that. :)

Oh indeed - I cried literally when I heard her recordings of that rainbow passage. Good to hear she is starting to sing. I look forward to that.

For me, singing is not that important now - but I wish I could 😉 - one of the things that people always told me when I even remotely considered voice surgery was that I would not be able to sing and tha tI would not have the pitch range I have now. But really - if I dont sing now anyways and do actually not want to use the lower part of my pitch range anyways (I mean for what purpose other than really making voices or somehow really become a professional actress or singer would I use that) - I now do not see much point in them anymore. If anything maybe I would expect that I actually dare more to sing if I had such a surgery and would not be afraid to accidentially drop pitch while singing 😉 - Confidence seems to be a major thing about it. Jenny and I think Abby as well said that this was the biggest thing about their procedures - they just gained a lot of confidence with it.

But I dont want to contribute to derailing the topic ;)
Lets hear some more songs :)

There's no reason why you won't be able to sing, but it will take work as you have to relearn how to sing with a new voice. Your new range will be higher, so you lose some in the low range but gain in the upper range.

Of the two trans women that I know who have had voice surgery (and are both musicians) one never could sing, so she says nothing has changed. The other did sing and does sing now, but she said it was hard and took about two years. Her singing is at about the same level as it was skill wise, but now she sounds like a girl, as she should.

I'd be happy with that. As I said I'm mostly an instrumentalist. And I'm very good at it. I work with other singers even when I write the songs, but I do enjoy singing.

But I guess there are things we give up and things we gain when transitioning.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 02, 2013, 08:51:53 AM
Women are never tenors, they are contraltos. :)

Ah... my experience is from High School (where we had Female Tenors in All State) and College (where everyone was cis-voiced ;))

That's odd...

It works like this:

Soprano: C4 – C6
Mezzo-soprano: A3 – A5
Contralto: F3 – F5
Tenor: C3 – C5
Baritone: F2 – F4 (G#2 to G#4 in operatic music)
Bass: E2 – E4

Wikipedia states on tenors:

QuoteA tenor is a type of classical male singing voice whose vocal range is one of the highest of the male voice types. The tenor's vocal range (in choral music) lies between C3, the C one octave below middle C, and (A4), the A above middle C. In solo work, this range extends up to (C5), or "tenor high C". The low extreme for tenors is roughly A♭2 (two A♭s below middle C). At the highest extreme, some tenors can sing up to two Fs above middle C (F5).

For Contralto:

QuoteA contralto is a type of classical female singing voice whose vocal range is the lowest female voice type, with the lowest tessitura. The contralto's vocal range falls between tenor and mezzo-soprano; typically between the F below middle C (F3 in scientific pitch notation) to the second G above middle C (G5), although at the extremes some voices can reach the E below middle C (E3) or the second B♭ above middle C (B♭5).

The most common woman's voice singing voice is in the mezzo-soprano range, as contralto is a deep woman's voice sounding more like a male. I work with a singer like that. Everyone who hears here says "is that a guy singing?"  She doesn't sound like a guy to me, but she has a husky voice.

http://your-personal-singing-guide.com/vocal-range.html

I don't have my music or transposition in front of me, but I think that high note I barely hit is A5. (I think I transposed from C to F, and the high note is an E5 when sung in C4).

I guess if I keep working my range will just barely cover Mezzo-soprano...

What is "Alto?" In four part voice it was Sop., Alto, Tenor, Bass. In Eight (?) part choral we just used I (high) and II (low) for each of the four-part voices.

Alto and contralto are the same thing. Usually it's used for instruments, like an alto sax.

QuoteThe musical term alto, meaning "high" in Italian (Latin: altus), refers to the second highest part of a contrapuntal musical texture and is also applied to its associated vocal range, especially in choral music. More rarely it describes the highest male solo voice type (usually designated countertenor), and it is also the root word of contralto, the lowest standard female voice type. When designating instruments, "alto" likewise can refer either to the corresponding vocal range (alto flute and alto trombone, respectively the lowest and highest common instruments of their families) or to musical role (alto recorder and alto clarinet).

QuoteIn choral music for mixed voices, "alto" describes the lowest part commonly sung by women. The explanation for the anomaly of this name is to be found not in the use of adult falsettists in choirs of men and boys but further back in innovations in composition during the mid-15th century. Before this time it was usual to write a melodic cantus or superius against a tenor (from Latin tenere, to hold) or 'held' part, to which might be added a contratenor, which was in counterpoint with (in other words, against = contra) the tenor. The composers of Ockeghem's generation wrote two contratenor parts and designated them as contratenor altus and contratenor bassus; they were respectively higher and lower than the tenor part. From these derive both the modern terms "alto" (and contralto) and "bass".

To sing high, you don't need to sing in falsetto. Falsetto is breathy, lacks vocal chord closure (which produces more resonance) and can actually sound more male. I tend to sing either in mixed voice, mixing the softer head voice (which some people call 'falsetto', which I guess is where confusion comes from) from higher notes with the strength of chest voice. I find that mixed voice tends to be the most difficult to master. I can hit notes in mixed voice easily now, and hold notes for ages, but it can be difficult optimising the sound and doing things with it like adding vibratto (which I find much easier in pure head or chest voice).

The way I see it, most of us won't be able to sing as high as genetic women or sound exactly the same as a 100% passable female singing voice (whatever that is, anyway) - but who cares? I think creating a unique, perhaps more androgynous sound is far more interesting, and even many great non trans singers have masculine voices - Nina Simone, Zarah Leander, Misora Hibari to name a few. That's generally the approach I use when singing - if people aren't quite sure if it's a male or female voice they're hearing, I'm happy! 🙂 That is why I have not undergone voice surgery.

Here are two of my songs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z2AoBdCdBQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf6tDlGO5QQ

Quote from: Assoluta on October 13, 2013, 12:49:29 PM
To sing high, you don't need to sing in falsetto. Falsetto is breathy, lacks vocal chord closure (which produces more resonance) and can actually sound more male. I tend to sing either in mixed voice, mixing the softer head voice (which some people call 'falsetto', which I guess is where confusion comes from) from higher notes with the strength of chest voice. I find that mixed voice tends to be the most difficult to master. I can hit notes in mixed voice easily now, and hold notes for ages, but it can be difficult optimising the sound and doing things with it like adding vibratto (which I find much easier in pure head or chest voice).

You have a lovely voice! In the first song your voice is similar to my mixed voice in my middle range. i agree with your observations. My falsetto break is very high, so it's not very useful. I have a pretty high range, but it sounds like a guy singing high (think Devo or Smashing Pumpkins). I'd like to get it more like yours.

I guess you can hear my male bass first. I'll try a higher feminine voice later.
Well, rather, I have to record them first, and I don't want my roommate going "wtf is going on?" so I'm going to save it for tomorrow. I'll post them when I have them ready, OK?

Quote from: Willow on October 13, 2013, 10:13:15 PM
I guess you can hear my male bass first. I'll try a higher feminine voice later.
Well, rather, I have to record them first, and I don't want my roommate going "wtf is going on?" so I'm going to save it for tomorrow. I'll post them when I have them ready, OK?

You sounded totally female in both. I also enjoyed the songs. 🙂 I try to get a tone like you first clip, but I need to work on it more. The song I posted earlier was my straight male singing voice, though I can sing deeper, like that 1980s new wave crooning voice. 😉

I only recently started doing voice training for my speaking voice, and to be honest have been so busy I haven't had time to work on it everyday. Plus my 22 year old son lives with me, and i have not yet broke the news to him, so he'd wonder why I'm talking like that! Although he should be used to me talking in different voices by now. I tried a few preliminary tries at singing in a more female tone, but as you said, doing a breathy mixed voice is hard! I need to work on it more to get some power. I might never regain my upper range due to the tonality. But you did really great on that second song.

Eventually if I can't sing well via voice training, I might opt for vocal surgery and then relearn how to sing. :/

I'd love to hear more recordings if you get the time.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 13, 2013, 10:27:27 PMYou sounded totally female in both. I also enjoyed the songs. 🙂 I try to get a tone like you first clip, but I need to work on it more. The song I posted earlier was my straight male singing voice, though I can sing deeper, like that 1980s new wave crooning voice. 😉

I only recently started doing voice training for my speaking voice, and to be honest have been so busy I haven't had time to work on it everyday. Plus my 22 year old son lives with me, and i have not yet broke the news to him, so he'd wonder why I'm talking like that! Although he should be used to me talking in different voices by now. I tried a few preliminary tries at singing in a more female tone, but as you said, doing a breathy mixed voice is hard! I need to work on it more to get some power. I might never regain my upper range due to the tonality. But you did really great on that second song.

Eventually if I can't sing well via voice training, I might opt for vocal surgery and then relearn how to sing. :/

I'd love to hear more recordings if you get the time.

I'm sorry, but I didn't post mine yet. That was Assoluta's songs, I think you were referring to.
Anyways, I think I'm going to try Yeah Right by Girlschool to try for the feminine one. It helps when it's a female singer to try and mimic their voice than trying to turn a male's voice into a female's, even if it is really high like Axl Rose 😛

Quote from: Willow on October 13, 2013, 10:33:28 PM
I'm sorry, but I didn't post mine yet. That was Assoluta's songs, I think you were referring to.
Anyways, I think I'm going to try Yeah Right by Girlschool to try for the feminine one. It helps when it's a female singer to try and mimic their voice than trying to turn a male's voice into a female's, even if it is really high like Axl Rose :P

Oh... Problem when I'm reading this on my phone! And my eyesight is not so great! Sorry!

Assoluta, that was for you.

Ok so yes I'd like to hear you too!

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 13, 2013, 10:36:23 PMOh... Problem when I'm reading this on my phone! And my eyesight is not so great! Sorry!

Assoluta, that was for you.

Ok so yes I'd like to hear you too!

Not a problem :P
Even though my phone is monstrous compared to most, it's still hard to read things on it!

She does sound very pretty :)

Probably around 4-5pm eastern time I can record and post. Don't know how to remove the old voice from a song though., so there'll be a conflict between my voice and the one on the recording. I'd try o play the music myself, but it's a bit hard to play a guitar, bass, and drums at the same time if you don't have them and can only barely play the first two.
I'll figure out a way 🙂

Quote from: Willow on October 13, 2013, 10:45:33 PM
Not a problem :P
Even though my phone is monstrous compared to most, it's still hard to read things on it!

I'm on an iPhone 5. It's a nice size screen, but when zooming in I didn't see who the post is from. I spilled water on my wireless keyboard on my Mac, so I'm waiting for the replacement in the mail. So the phone is easier than the keyboard with a row of keys that don't work! lol

QuoteShe does sound very pretty :)

Very pretty!

QuoteProbably around 4-5pm eastern time I can record and post. Don't know how to remove the old voice from a song though., so there'll be a conflict between my voice and the one on the recording. I'd try o play the music myself, but it's a bit hard to play a guitar, bass, and drums at the same time if you don't have them and can only barely play

You don't play them at the same time, you do them one by one. 🙂 that's what I do. I record all the parts in my recordings.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 13, 2013, 10:57:49 PMI'm on an iPhone 5. It's a nice size screen, but when zooming in I didn't see who the post is from. I spilled water on my wireless keyboard on my Mac, so I'm waiting for the replacement in the mail. So the phone is easier than the keyboard with a row of keys that don't work! lol

Very pretty!

You don't play them at the same time, you do them one by one. 🙂 that's what I do. I record all the parts in my recordings.

Hah, Apple user 😛 I use GS4, even larger, but still feels small Made my old iPhone 4 look like a postage stamp, though. Maybe I should have opted for something cheaper though, I'm not really using it to its full potential and spent $241 on it.
Thankfully parents are paying for school. For now.

Well I can only tuba, and not very well, nor do I own one. I've attempted at making electronic music, but want a better software than the Garage Band equivalent that came with my computer.

Quote from: Willow on October 13, 2013, 11:03:36 PM
Hah, Apple user 😛 I use GS4, even larger, but still feels small Made my old iPhone 4 look like a postage stamp, though. Maybe I should have opted for something cheaper though, I'm not really using it to its full potential and spent $241 on it.
Thankfully parents are paying for school. For now.

Well I can only tuba, and not very well, nor do I own one. I've attempted at making electronic music, but want a better software than the Garage Band equivalent that came with my computer.

Hey! I was a tubist in high school! I was very good too. 
Mostly I play bass and guitar, but also play keys. I started on drums and used to play sax

Garage Band is actually pretty good. I mostly use Cubase or Pro Tools, but lots of times I use Garage Band when I want to get an idea down quickly. The singer/songwriter I work with does all her demos in it. I think her demos are so good she should release them as an album.   

My iPhone 5 is one of the most useful things I ever bought. I use it constantly for all kinds of things, including talking on the phone. Lol the screen is big, but it still fits in my pocket. 🙂

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 13, 2013, 11:45:21 PMHey! I was a tubist in high school! I was very good too. 
Mostly I play bass and guitar, but also play keys. I started on drums and used to play sax

Garage Band is actually pretty good. I mostly use Cubase or Pro Tools, but lots of times I use Garage Band when I want to get an idea down quickly. The singer/songwriter I work with does all her demos in it. I think her demos are so good she should release them as an album.   

My iPhone 5 is one of the most useful things I ever bought. I use it constantly for all kinds of things, including talking on the phone. Lol the screen is big, but it still fits in my pocket. :)

Wasn't the worst in my section, but not the best either. But other than that, poor hand eye coordination has limited me.

I use this program because it's free. I'm too cheap to pay for anything else. I just want to put in my own notes and stuff, but Garage Band only lets you record your own or use loops. Whatever, I guess. I made a decent song with this. Never finished it though, maybe sometime soon I will.

My GS4 does more than I need. Lots of the stuff I don't know how to use, and I've had it 3 months. My iPhone 4 did too, though. Darned smartphones are becoming smarter than their users now.
My annoying little cousins did crack its screen though. Small crack in a not too important place, but it still annoyed me.

You can use a MIDI keyboard and enter your own notes for the virtual synths in a Garage Band. Google using MIDI with Garage Band. You can probably do step sequencing with the mouse on screen. I alter their drum loops like that all the time. :)

I dropped my phone on the tile floor in my kitchen today, from standing height (which isn't too far up for me lol). I have a rubber case with a plastic outer shell, so it bounced when it hit the floor! My heart skipped a beat and I envisioned a cracked screen, but it was totally unscathed! Whew! (I have insurance on it anyway). 

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 14, 2013, 12:56:07 AMYou can use a MIDI keyboard and enter your own notes for the virtual synths in a Garage Band. Google using MIDI with Garage Band. You can probably do step sequencing with the mouse on screen. I alter their drum loops like that all the time. :)

I dropped my phone on the tile floor in my kitchen today, from standing height (which isn't too far up for me lol). I have a rubber case with a plastic outer shell, so it bounced when it hit the floor! My heart skipped a beat and I envisioned a cracked screen, but it was totally unscathed! Whew! (I have insurance on it anyway).

I don't want to pay for one, nor can I play piano. Wait, that's not totally true. I can play the Forrest Gump theme song, but just the main melody.

Your cousin didn't knock it off a ledge (pulled on the power cord) and carelessly step on it while walking away. He's 7 and a child of the technology age, he should know better than to pull on a random cord.

< Bad singing voice.  Give me a good one and I'll do it in a heartbeat. 😀

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 14, 2013, 03:02:35 AM< Bad singing voice.  Give me a good one and I'll do it in a heartbeat. :D

Unfortunately, not everyone is blessed 🙁

Quote from: Willow on October 14, 2013, 03:10:27 AM
Unfortunately, not everyone is blessed :(

I've only sang once, and it was a couple weeks ago to my boyfriend.  I don't imagine I'll ever do it again. LOL

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 14, 2013, 03:15:23 AMI've only sang once, and it was a couple weeks ago to my boyfriend.  I don't imagine I'll ever do it again. LOL

I wish I could pass off my male singing voice to someone, it's rather lovely when I get operatic with it.

Quote from: Willow on October 14, 2013, 03:18:22 AM
I wish I could pass off my male singing voice to someone, it's rather lovely when I get operatic with it.

I've never sang in my male voice, my male voice died like 4 months ago.

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 14, 2013, 03:30:16 AMI've never sang in my male voice, my male voice died like 4 months ago.

That's something to celebrate 🙂

Quote from: Willow on October 14, 2013, 03:34:23 AM
That's something to celebrate :)

Well, I might post something just for you guys some day.  It depends on how confident I can make myself.  I'm pretty narcissistic when I want to be. :D

Just tell me how pretty I am and how beautiful my personality is, that should help.

There are some beautiful feminine singing voices coming from trans women. Assoluta's is beautiful!

I've been practicing with the radio (Imagine Dragons "Demons" is really good - even though they're a male group). I really need to attempt one of these on the mic, but without the background accompaniment I feel a lot less shaky. I also need to learn the words better... though at least those I can get online.

Lorde is easier, really. Overall it's lower pitched than Demons (though I have clearly improved my range and can hit the highest "ahh" in the song - doesn't sound good I'm sure). At least I know most all the words.

Any tips on taking these songs "American Idol" tryouts style? (Without the snarky comments, I hope). (I am *not* that good on the uke)

Quote from: kabit on October 14, 2013, 04:29:40 AM
There are some beautiful feminine singing voices coming from trans women. Assoluta's is beautiful!

I've been practicing with the radio (Imagine Dragons "Demons" is really good - even though they're a male group). I really need to attempt one of these on the mic, but without the background accompaniment I feel a lot less shaky. I also need to learn the words better... though at least those I can get online.

Lorde is easier, really. Overall it's lower pitched than Demons (though I have clearly improved my range and can hit the highest "ahh" in the song - doesn't sound good I'm sure). At least I know most all the words.

Any tips on taking these songs "American Idol" tryouts style? (Without the snarky comments, I hope). (I am *not* that good on the uke)

What I'm wondering when you say that is, are you asking for someone to judge your singing? Orrrrrrr confused.

No... sing without the radio ;)
It's a lot harder to do and requires more prep.

Unless you want to send some judges along? 😀

Quote from: kabit on October 14, 2013, 06:24:24 AM
No... sing without the radio ;)
It's a lot harder to do and requires more prep.

Unless you want to send some judges along? :D

I'll call Simon right now, brb. 😛

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 14, 2013, 06:29:58 AM
I'll call Simon right now, brb. :P

He might be mean, but I can take it. I might prefer someone from "The Voice," though... as a coach!

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 14, 2013, 06:29:58 AM
I'll call Simon right now, brb. :P

He shouldn't be the judge of anything. I want to see him get up there and sing.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 14, 2013, 06:53:25 AM
He shouldn't be the judge of anything. I want to see him get up there and sing.

I'm not saying Simon is good... but you can't ask a food critic to get up and cook. Appreciation of something and ability to do something are different skills. Yeah, there's overlap, but the best "doers" usually make the worst teachers and critics.

Quote from: kabit on October 14, 2013, 06:57:38 AM
I'm not saying Simon is good... but you can't ask a food critic to get up and cook. Appreciation of something and ability to do something are different skills. Yeah, there's overlap, but the best "doers" usually make the worst teachers and critics.

But he only liked one type of singer. The guy's a hack, and lots of people in the record industry, as well as music critics, are frustrated (i.e. lacking talent) musicians or singers with a chip on their shoulder. It's nothing but their opinion. They are not experts. People would say; "But Simon discovered so-and-so".. No, they had the talent, he did nothing except what the record label paid him to do. He has only appreciation for a narrow subset of music that he likes, and generally lacks good taste. I avoid those stupid shows like the plague. They help to ruin music by making everything bland, and homogenized. In his case his father was an executive at EMI music and gave him a job because he could not get along with colleagues and his bosses and kept getting fired from menial jobs. So without daddy he'd be nobody. He knows nothing about music.

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 14, 2013, 09:09:17 AMBut he only liked one type of singer. The guy's a hack, and lots of people in the record industry, as well as music critics, are frustrated (i.e. lacking talent) musicians or singers with a chip on their shoulder. It's nothing but their opinion. They are not experts. People would say; "But Simon discovered so-and-so".. No, they had the talent, he did nothing except what the record label paid him to do. He has only appreciation for a narrow subset of music that he likes, and generally lacks good taste. I avoid those stupid shows like the plague. They help to ruin music by making everything bland, and homogenized. In his case his father was an executive at EMI music and gave him a job because he could not get along with colleagues and his bosses and kept getting fired from menial jobs. So without daddy he'd be nobody. He knows nothing about music.

He's such a turd. Never liked AI because of him.

I'm actually going to disagree with you guys, Simon does actually know what he's talking about.  He gives clear judgements as to why someone sounds bad, he picks people with good vocal talents regardless of the genre they sing.

Yeah, he's a little rude and extremely tactless, I'd still thing it's not correct to say he doesn't know music, because from what I can tell he does.

I think The Who made a good point when they argued that a lot of the bands and artists we consider to be legendary these days would have been thrown out of the ridiculous 'talent' shows that Cowell judges.

Quote from: RoteRosen on October 14, 2013, 02:11:39 PM
I think The Who made a good point when they argued that a lot of the bands and artists we consider to be legendary these days would have been thrown out of the ridiculous 'talent' shows that Cowell judges.

A lot of singers these days are bland.

I disagree. All the singers he likes have that R&B fake soul style. This is what was wrong with AI. You only had singers.  Not instrumentalist and no original music. But that's changing now. The whole idea of these contests are stupid. They purposely picked some bad singers to make fun of them since everyone had to audition.  How about just have a showcase of new talent and not a dog and pony show? :)

Sorry but I've been doing this over 40 years and this stuff gets on my nerves! Singers and music in General is bland because it's about making money and not art. Label A wants a copy of label B's act and so on. The people who mix the records are even told by the label that it has to sound like all the other hits on the radio!

I'm on my way back to my room, I'll start experimenting and recording when I get back. Turns out my roommate won't be back until Wednesday morning, so I actually have some privacy!

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 13, 2013, 10:27:27 PM
You sounded totally female in both. I also enjoyed the songs. 🙂 I try to get a tone like you first clip, but I need to work on it more. The song I posted earlier was my straight male singing voice, though I can sing deeper, like that 1980s new wave crooning voice. 😉

I only recently started doing voice training for my speaking voice, and to be honest have been so busy I haven't had time to work on it everyday. Plus my 22 year old son lives with me, and i have not yet broke the news to him, so he'd wonder why I'm talking like that! Although he should be used to me talking in different voices by now. I tried a few preliminary tries at singing in a more female tone, but as you said, doing a breathy mixed voice is hard! I need to work on it more to get some power. I might never regain my upper range due to the tonality. But you did really great on that second song.

Eventually if I can't sing well via voice training, I might opt for vocal surgery and then relearn how to sing. :/

I'd love to hear more recordings if you get the time.

QuoteI disagree. All the singers he likes have that R&B fake soul style. This is what was wrong with AI. You only had singers.  Not instrumentalist and no original music. But that's changing now. The whole idea of these contests are stupid. They purposely picked some bad singers to make fun of them since everyone had to audition.  How about just have a showcase of new talent and not a dog and pony show? :)

Sorry but I've been doing this over 40 years and this stuff gets on my nerves! Singers and music in General is bland because it's about making money and not art. Label A wants a copy of label B's act and so on. The people who mix the records are even told by the label that it has to sound like all the other hits on the radio!

Thanks for the positive comments 🙂 The more you exercise the upper range, as you probably know, the more the voice will get used to it. I've added over an octave onto the vocal range I thought I had.

And I totally agree with current music - there are many singers who are vocally IMpressive but not EXpressive. Many singers can sing well but lack individuality and true connection.

As I mentioned before, I believe cultivating a somewhat androgynous tone that could "plausibly" come from a female is far easier than trying to sound female - otherwise you'll be limiting yourself to what you can sing. The two songs I posted were probably more towards the "female" end of my singing technique, the video below is me performing at a mini concert, and using more of my lower and upper ranges to cultivate a more androgynous sound - especially as my chest voice projects the best across a room with no microphone! If you can sing with a unique voice and take the audience on an emotional journey with you, it'll be infinitely better than singers trying to impress with their vocal trills, rolls and high notes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYvTH-zIRQk

My favourite example of a masculine female singing voice is this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7y4WTKK3ZQ

Screw it, my recording sounds awful. Could be the internal mike is crap, or I'm just bad.

Quote from: Willow on October 14, 2013, 05:48:08 PM
Screw it, my recording sounds awful. Could be the internal mike is crap, or I'm just bad.

It's the microphone.
Internal mics are terrible. Basic (i.e. cheap) external / USB ones are OK. Condenser ones are good. I have a Blue Snowball USB mic. There's a recent microphone thread on Susan's somewhere.

Quote from: kabit on October 14, 2013, 06:57:55 PMIt's the microphone.
Internal mics are terrible. Basic (i.e. cheap) external / USB ones are OK. Condenser ones are good. I have a Blue Snowball USB mic. There's a recent microphone thread on Susan's somewhere.

I shall search for it.
Can't spend too much money, though. Only have a few hundred dollars left for the entire year (tuition is paid for, thank god) and I'm saving what I can for hormones in the likely case that my insurance doesn't cover them.

So I was singing today, after doing some voice therapy, and found a good spot to sing, as far as removing the low male resonance, and it reminded me of one of my favorite singers, Chrissy Amphlett of the Divinyls (R.I.P.)

So here my version of Pleasure And Pain. i had to do about 5 takes, so my voice started getting tired singing that way, and now i'm hoarse! lol

http://snd.sc/1bwi8Ga (http://snd.sc/1bwi8Ga)

I think it's a pretty good impersonation of her.  ;D  I have to keep practicing.

Not bad at all!
EDIT: after listening to the original just following, I like your better, actually. It has a bit more of a sassy tone to it 😉

Thanks! I exaggerated her sass a little. lol

I liked it, though.

A song like this needs lots if practice to get all her mannerisms. I ran through it a few times with the original and went for it. I was reading the lyrics while I sang, which I don't like doing. So I messed up the first four takes.

I really recorded it just to see how I sounded, but I was happy with the results so here it is. Not perfect, but not bad either. 🙂

You sound awesome... and you inspired me to try Imagine Dragons. (I figured out how to cheat... Youtube the song w/ lyrics, use headphones while you record).

Nope... not posting that one! I sound petulant in the low sections. The high voice sections were ok. I guess I need to work w/ mic more!

Evidently my mike sucks or mom wasn't being an a-hole to me about my singing and was really telling the truth.
So I never believed mirrors and I never believed microphones.
If I had the money I'd buy a better one, but cash is tight right now. Maybe after Christmas, if I get some spare cash.

Quote from: Willow on October 15, 2013, 07:56:17 PM
Evidently my mike sucks or mom wasn't being an a-hole to me about my singing and was really telling the truth.
So I never believed mirrors and I never believed microphones.
If I had the money I'd buy a better one, but cash is tight right now. Maybe after Christmas, if I get some spare cash.

I'm glad I snuck this one into an Amazon order... but $50 for a microphone is painful (and that's a cheap "good" mic, I'm sure).

Quote from: kabit on October 15, 2013, 08:02:48 PMI'm glad I snuck this one into an Amazon order... but $50 for a microphone is painful (and that's a cheap "good" mic, I'm sure).

Right now, $50 is too expensive for anything, especially after my key fiasco. I have a temp, but I'm not allowed to have it copied, and have to pay $75 to replace it if I don't find it by Thursday afternoon to replace the locks.

Glad you all like it.  ;D I have a home recording studio with a fairly expensive mic and all that stuff, so wasn't that hard.

Quote from: Willow on October 15, 2013, 08:13:02 PM
Right now, $50 is too expensive for anything, especially after my key fiasco. I have a temp, but I'm not allowed to have it copied, and have to pay $75 to replace it if I don't find it by Thursday afternoon to replace the locks.

Good luck!! Find that key :D

As for you... I'm sure it's not you - it's the mic or the mirror 😉 Truthfully, though... we're our worst critic. It's cliché, but true. I think I sound terrible on a recording (and actually improved a bit practicing girl voice - probably because the voice doesn't feel like mine, yet). There's not much for me to see in the mirror yet (I know I look terrible there... but many would agree right now - with my patchy facial hair and laser induced acne).

Quote from: RavenMoon on October 15, 2013, 08:16:03 PMGlad you all like it.  ;D I have a home recording studio with a fairly expensive mic and all that stuff, so wasn't that hard.

Well, we can't be all that lucky 😛

Quote from: kabit on October 15, 2013, 08:18:43 PMGood luck!! Find that key :D
As for you... I'm sure it's not you - it's the mic or the mirror 😉 Truthfully, though... we're our worst critic. It's cliché, but true. I think I sound terrible on a recording (and actually improved a bit practicing girl voice - probably because the voice doesn't feel like mine, yet). There's not much for me to see in the mirror yet (I know I look terrible there... but many would agree right now - with my patchy facial hair and laser induced acne).

It's nowhere to be found, I've searched my entire room.

More like the disbelief that I'm physically male, my eyes and ears just cannot believe.

So, I saw this topic a while ago, and I love singing and knew that I wanted to post something, but it took me a while to find a couple of songs to sing for it.

So here we go!

Here's my version of "Clouds - Both Sides Now" by Joni Mitchell:
https://soundcloud.com/cheetaking243/clouds-both-sides-now-joni (https://soundcloud.com/cheetaking243/clouds-both-sides-now-joni)

And here's the kind of song that I REALLY wish I could sing better right now... "The Sound of Music," in the style of Julie Andrews. (God, I want my pre-pubertal soprano voice back...  🙁 until then, it's stuck in the shrill falsetto range.)
https://soundcloud.com/cheetaking243/the-sound-of-music-julie (https://soundcloud.com/cheetaking243/the-sound-of-music-julie)

I admittedly have to fight a bit to get to the high notes. But I couldn't imagine not singing them. In a way, I've still never accepted that my voice has changed. I've been trying everything I can to get those notes back ever since they disappeared in the first place.