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So ... after months of arguments and tears, my wife and I are edging towards a deal, and part of it is this: she will not stand in the way of my transitioning, on one condition: I cannot do anything that makes transition obvious until after our son leaves school, in the June 2016 - almost three years from now.

Her reasons are entirely reasonable, and motivated by love for our son, not animosity against me. The kid is 15. He's had a VERY hard time over the past few years, having to watch as one member of the family after another went through a series of medical and emotional crises. He's currently in a very unhappy, depressed state and his schoolwork is suffering. I am as torn up as my wife to see our beautiful, cheerful, life-enhancing boy so down ... and I really, really don't want to make his life any worse than it already is. If he has to watch his Dad transition into a woman ... well, that's a huge ask for any teenage boy. But in this case it's really asking too much.

But here's the thing ... I can't wait until 2016. I have to start the process at least. The way I see it, I can lose 30lbs in weight and can get a hair transplant and put it all down to middle-aged male vanity. I can get rid of my beard and just say I've decided to start shaving regularly. I can work on my female voice while keeping my male one. Maybe I can even have a couple of early FFS procedures. But ...

- Is it possible to go on HRT for more than a few months without the effects becoming obvious? (I know, everyone's different, but still ...)

- And is it emotionally possible to hold oneself back once the process has begun? I've waited decades for this. I've denied myself my own true nature. Now that I'm finally on the brink of transitioning, I wonder whether I'll be able to hold myself back. If it feels right, I'll want to put my foot down to the floor and go for it.

- Or could there be a benefit in taking it slow?

Ladies, I long for your answers and advice ... over to you!

My question is, wouldn't you be in a really awful mood if you suppress yourself even while transition, making your son noticing that his "dad" is really down, thereby making him suffer more. Wouldn't he feel better if you, for now at least, be yourself at home and keep it a secret to outsiders FOR NOW. Your son wouldn't want you suffering. If you're happy it might make him more happy. I'm not exactly an expert on this, i am just trying to help you with your decision, so don't take this the wrong way. And in the end, it is your decision.

Hang in there Carlita.  Do all the things you said you can, and find out about low dose HRT.  At a very low dose you may feel more fulfilled, but body changes will be so slow they may not even be noticed for years.

And I'm not going to guess about your family dynamics, but I agree with this one line from Zoot.  However, there's no need to be out around the house if you can be happy within your own limits.

Quote from: ZootAllures/BlackNapkins! on October 03, 2013, 08:33:39 AM
...  If you're happy it might make him more happy.  ...

Take care Carlita.

There is a reason that most of us that go through with transition end up divorced. As hard as it is to visualize its very often in the end a good thing.

I promise you your wife will always have some reason for hindering you! And lets face it its not her fault either, she married a man and expects to have a man.

If you still feel you need to live your life to the expectations of other people I would suggest you try to find inner peace as a man.

Katie

Is there a chance that part of the reason your boy is so unhappy is that he senses that there are things going on between you and you wife that he isn't privy to?

As a divorcee I can testify that my kids were happier once nothing was being hidden from them, my ex-wife asked me not to 'dress up' when I collect him from school since it will make him a target for bullying but in my experience if a bully is going to bully he will find any excuse.

Is hiding or delaying your transition going to make you so miserable that its going to impact your happiness and the atmosphere in your home?

My kids aren't stupid, any attempts to hide my nature from them was met with them realising something wasn't right with humiliating speed!

I am proud as hell of how my 11 year old boy has handled questions from his school mates about his '->-bleeped-<- dad'

Kind of a paradox:
If you live for others expectations, there is no inner peace.
If you live for inner peace, you cant live for others.

This has been true in my life.

I recently had to deal with a similar situation. I'm married and have three children between the ages of 12 and 16. I held off on transitioning for the children, but I ended up so miserable that I made everyone in the house miserable. After speaking with my wife I had a conversation with the children about what is going on. The children knew something was up and were glad to get the air cleared. The atmosphere in my home is 1000% better! 

Thank you so much for those replies ... and of course it's absolutely right to say that children pick up on their parents' unhappiness. But there's a big difference between knowing Mum and dad aren't getting on well, and are miserable because of it, and knowing that Dad's about to transition. THAT is a really scary prospect for a teenage boy who's only just starting the process of coming to terms with his own sexuality ... and he'll be as scared for me as much as for himself.

I so agree with you, Jessica that it seems to be incredibly difficult to find a way through all this without someone - or ones - to get hurt. It's impossible for people who don't have to deal with dysphoria on a day-to-day basis to understand how ****ing hard it can be just to get through the day, or sleep at night, or function at all, really when the GID is at its worst. They can't help thinking that the decision to transition is some kind of lifestyle choice when, for me at least, it's all about survival. As terrifying as i find the whole thing, I just don't think I can survive much longer unless I start the process at least.

I'm definitely going to explore the whole low-dose HRT option, Kathyk ... my only worry is that it will work too well and I'll not be able to resist upping the dose ...

Carlita,

I understand this is a very difficult situation.  Truth be told, it could be very hard for him to accept and may take some time.  And it's very touching that you are looking out for your child and only want what's best for him. However,  do you think its possible that your child may be more thankful for you telling him in advance?  At least in hindsight?  Sure, it may be tough, but what about him finding out that you were doing something behind his back for years?   That may create resentment and an even tougher situation down the road.  All I can say is I would want to know asap if one of my parents decided to transition.  I'm sure you would feel the same way about your child if they decided to transition.   Having said that, do what's best for your individual situation.  We all deal with thing differently and sometimes there is never a "right or wrong" way.  If coming out later is for the best, then do that.  Just consider whether it is before deciding on delaying.  Good luck! :)

Quote from: learningtolive on October 03, 2013, 11:13:08 AM
Carlita,

I understand this is a very difficult situation.  Truth be told, it could be very hard for him to accept and may take some time.  And it's very touching that you are looking out for your child and only want what's best for him. However,  do you think its possible that your child may be more thankful for you telling him in advance?  At least in hindsight?  Sure, it may be tough, but what about him finding out that you were doing something behind his back for years?   That may create resentment and an even tougher situation down the road.  All I can say is I would want to know asap if one of my parents decided to transition.  I'm sure you would feel the same way about your child if they decided to transition.   Having said that, do what's best for your individual situation.  We all deal with thing differently and sometimes there is never a "right or wrong" way.  If coming out later is for the best, then do that.  Just consider whether it is before deciding on delaying.  Good luck! :)

Wise words! In general, I always think it's best to know things than to be kept in that state of suspense where you know that something's not quite right, but you don't know what it is. Knowing is the first step on the way to coping. I guess it's just a question of finding the right time, context and way of explaining something that seems inconceivable to most people, particularly to the teenage son of an apparently normal father. That said, for any child, the thing that matters most of all is the knowledge that you are loved, valued and cherished by your parents. And I will never, ever give my son any reason to doubt that. Nor, to be fair, would my wife ever suggest to him that I don't love him. Whatever our problems, we have always been united in wanting what's best for the kids, and looking out for them when they need us.

I guess also there's also the hope in my heart that, just as I would never turn one of my children away if they came to me and said they were gay, or trans, or had some major illness or problem, so they won't turn me away either when I come to them ...

Quote from: Carlita on October 03, 2013, 11:56:16 AM
Wise words! In general, I always think it's best to know things than to be kept in that state of suspense where you know that something's not quite right, but you don't know what it is. Knowing is the first step on the way to coping. I guess it's just a question of finding the right time, context and way of explaining something that seems inconceivable to most people, particularly to the teenage son of an apparently normal father. That said, for any child, the thing that matters most of all is the knowledge that you are loved, valued and cherished by your parents. And I will never, ever give my son any reason to doubt that. Nor, to be fair, would my wife ever suggest to him that I don't love him. Whatever our problems, we have always been united in wanting what's best for the kids, and looking out for them when they need us.

I guess also there's also the hope in my heart that, just as I would never turn one of my children away if they came to me and said they were gay, or trans, or had some major illness or problem, so they won't turn me away either when I come to them ...

I agree.  The most important thing is for a child to be loved and valued.  Still, children are a big part of a parent's life and vice versa.  That's why coming out sooner may be easier emotionally for everyone involved, but that isn't always the case and you have to find what works for you.  I haven't had the talk with my own father, though he sort of knows.  After all, he knows I'm on hormones and seeing a therapist, so I imagine he's aware.  Yet, it's been more convenient for me to wait even though it may make things harder later on.  So, I don't disagree with waiting, just make sure it is the right thing for you.  Whatever you do, I hope it goes really well!

Children are very quick to pick up on things, and it's faster than you realize. My two are 9 and 13 and they were quick to realize that something was different.   Sure, I hid it for a while but they were asking questions so I just sat them down and we talked it through.  It lifted a tremendous amount of pressure from me and allows me to be me at home.  I still play the part of a man at work so when I go home its all about being who I am and not what others want.

If there were a 'Like' button on this forum, I would totally have liked those last two posts from Learningtolive and Erin Brianne  :)

You're getting good advice Carlita, so no more of that  from me, just some information. 

I began transition to live, because I was getting too close to ending it all.  If you're at that point you know it, and nothing matters but being able to live as yourself, and to salvage whatever else you can.

As far as your son goes, you and your wife know him best.   but as an example of waiting I'll say my eldest son hasn't talked to me in six months, and my youngest can't stand to be around me anymore.  My wife says they feel I lied to them for twenty plus years.  That is true, but it can't be changed now.

I've met a few younger transwomen with their children in tow, and I'm amazed at how well adjusted most of the kids are.  But those women are all divorced, and they have long back-stories.  So it seems my waiting so many years just changed the consequences.  It didn't change the fact that there are consequences. 

I now live each day for myself, and other people are fit into life after my needs are filled.   It's not malicious or mean, I'm just taking control. 

I wish you the best, and hope your wife can understand you need to begin living again.

It probably depends... by four months of very low dose HRT, I was on the verge of being outed by the changes. But it probably can't hurt to *try,* and see what happens. (I don't have kids, so no useful advice on that score. I will say that I'm still quite happily married, so I'm not going to leap to the conclusion that your wife is using your son as an excuse - and it sounds like you don't think so either.)

Good luck.

Quote from: Carlita on October 03, 2013, 12:28:06 PM
If there were a 'Like' button on this forum, I would totally have liked those last two posts from Learningtolive and Erin Brianne  :)

It's the little green thumbs up button underneath the reputation counter ;)
And some folks do have their Facebook linked up to their account but a lot of us do not.

Hi Carlita,

Some very good advice given in the previous posts.  Now if you're dead set against disclosure till 2016, there is a fair bit you can do provided you don't go overboard.  This is from my personal experience as a non transitioned person managing my GID - these are things I have done to keep things manageable.

1.  Lose the beard, start laser/electro.   Most of the time people won't pick up on this one.  It's also one of the slowest parts to get out of the way.  You'll feel a lot better just being rid of 5pm stubble.

2.  Voice - again, a slow part, and not obvious unless you make it so.

3.  Body hair - get rid of it.

4.  Brows can be shaped to a more neutral sort of look.

5.  Low dose HRT - some changes are inevitable from being on it, but they can subtle enough that they are not noticeable.  I have posted on my 18 months on it.  The danger for you though is that you could lose patience and increase dosages and take things further than you want, timing wise.

It takes a long time for HRT to work it's magic.  Not much happens the first six months, and it takes years (as much as 10) before things are complete.  A 12 year old girl is not mature until she is 22 or so.

Other than the makeup and clothes, there is much you can do with subtle changes.  Of course the beard has to go.  If you have much body hair at all you can start trimming it gradually. Don't go from bear to bare overnight though. Eventually you can shave it off.  Many men remove body hair and remain men.  My 26 year old daughter is dating a man who had his beard lasered off.

You can take better care of you fingernails and cuticles. Let them grow and shape them.  Dig your nails into a soft bar of soap then scrape the soap out with a file, leaving the tips nearly white. You can elegant long nails, but if you forgo the polish, you will still be look male.

Next time you get a haircut have the barber trim your eyebrows and any extraneous hair in your ears/nose etc. 

HRT alone won't out you.  Lose that 30 lbs and stay healthy.

Losing the wife is not a forgone conclusion.  I was pretty un-remarkable as a man, but I am turning into a much more attractive woman. My wife was shocked when I first removed my body hair.  She worried that I was gay and would leave her for a man.

Once she saw the changes in my body, she found me quite attractive.  I think many women are a tad bi-sexual and find other women attractive. They have just repressed it for years. 

I dress mostly male, but in the summer I wear shorts and polo shirts and sometimes sandals.  My hair-free legs are quite shapely, but I still present male.

I hope you don't get a counselor that insists you prove your womanhood by dressing girly and coming out to lots of people.  I waited until my friends and family told me. You don't necessarily need to spend months with a counselor in order to get hormones.  There are many "informed consent" clinics that will provide HRT to responsible adults who know what they are doing.

Time and gradual change can work wonders.  At this time my female figure has become a bit difficult to hide, but that's taken 5 years or so.  Think of Marlene Dietrich, Lauren Bacall, or Madonna.  They look feminine and sexy in male clothes.

Of course your experience may differ, but I'm doing just fine with gradual changes and staying away from wigs, makeup, dresses and the like. 

Randi

Quote from: Carlita on October 03, 2013, 08:28:04 AM
So ... after months of arguments and tears, my wife and I are edging towards a deal, and part of it is this: she will not stand in the way of my transitioning, on one condition: I cannot do anything that makes transition obvious until after our son leaves school, in the June 2016 - almost three years from now.

Her reasons are entirely reasonable, and motivated by love for our son, not animosity against me. The kid is 15. He's had a VERY hard time over the past few years, having to watch as one member of the family after another went through a series of medical and emotional crises. He's currently in a very unhappy, depressed state and his schoolwork is suffering. I am as torn up as my wife to see our beautiful, cheerful, life-enhancing boy so down ... and I really, really don't want to make his life any worse than it already is. If he has to watch his Dad transition into a woman ... well, that's a huge ask for any teenage boy. But in this case it's really asking too much.

But here's the thing ... I can't wait until 2016. I have to start the process at least. The way I see it, I can lose 30lbs in weight and can get a hair transplant and put it all down to middle-aged male vanity. I can get rid of my beard and just say I've decided to start shaving regularly. I can work on my female voice while keeping my male one. Maybe I can even have a couple of early FFS procedures. But ...

- Is it possible to go on HRT for more than a few months without the effects becoming obvious? (I know, everyone's different, but still ...)

- And is it emotionally possible to hold oneself back once the process has begun? I've waited decades for this. I've denied myself my own true nature. Now that I'm finally on the brink of transitioning, I wonder whether I'll be able to hold myself back. If it feels right, I'll want to put my foot down to the floor and go for it.

- Or could there be a benefit in taking it slow?

Ladies, I long for your answers and advice ... over to you!

I wish you the best with your wife, I am sure that if I was still married when I transitioned she would never have stayed....someone has to truly love someone to go through transition with a spouse. As for children their love is unconditional and must except many things their parents do....whether good or bad.

I have always put my children first (3 boys) but there comes a time when you have to put yourself first in order to transition...but this doesn't mean you forget about your children, I feel too many trans end up doing this!

I took things very slow, I was on hrt 3 years (1 self, 2 under doctor) before coming out to them. I don't care what anyone says!! people that are close to you will only see what they want too. I was being gendered female a year before I came out....many times it was with my children at restaurants and such....they would just laugh it off. Eventually it got to me and I would tell them to just go with what is said if I am gendered female....this is still before I came out. I even had to use the women's restroom a couple times when they were with me.....this was still before I told them. They knew the type reactions I would get if I used the men's.

I was fairly androgynous but not like some others mean....I did not wear any jewelry, no long fingernails, no polish, no makeup....but my hair was at its longest ever and I did have some laser treatments started but still had enough beard. After about a year of being misgendered like this....I finally came out 2 years ago I still did not push things too much, in fact they still seen me as him even though I was being gendered female by others. In fact they didn't even notice that my voice had changed, quite frankly even I didn't until I brought out my old voice to have my youngest listen....it blew him and I away!! At this time the only thing that changed drastically was that my breasts were now not hidden other than that I did not just all of a sudden go out in a dress...in fact my children first seen me in a dress this summer! What did change is their perception of me and they now noticed more of just how much I was being genderd female even though I didn't look much different then before I came out. The first obstacle was noticed right away when we wondered what they would call me when out....were still working on that!!! I don't like to be called by Shelly and mom isn't acceptable for all of them...so I am left with "hey" ya that's my name when were out...they have used mom if the circumstance calls for it.

It's now been two years since I have come out to them, I can honestly say they have a hard time viewing me as a man anymore....many times they treat me as if I don't know things I use too or that I only care about certain things females would. There has been good and bad with how they perceive me now...I still try to provide the parenting a father would provide...even though I'm not sure what that is! ...I still do all that I have before including many sport activities, but they do treat me like a woman when I do....at first I was very reluctant to give up any male cohesiveness I may have had with them...I've now accepted the fact that I am not one of the guys anymore.

This is how I did things, I took things slow for them. Did I want to rush things?? ahhh lets see I have only felt this way since 9 years of age, but I could not risk losing the love of my children. I feel they love me the same as before, things haven't been rosy and we still need to work on the future but I'm not pushing this. I have only just begun to tell them they need to use proper pronouns when at home, for many this would be too long...for me I understand how difficult it is for someone to do this!

You can do this but you must keep in mind the emotions of your son, you will not be the only one that will be transitioning. I'm not sure what I would have done if my children wouldn't of accepted me, I can say I would of still continued on with my transition, but I'm not sure that would of happened. I believe because of how I took things slow and then educated them on many things transgendered I had a better chance of them respecting me. Now I have lost some of that since they became "no it all"  teenagers!!!

I wouldn't keep it from your son. Allow him to be able to access and react to you on his own. Hiding it would only create tension, he may feel he never knew you and probably would distance himself. If he saw you transition, and you educate him why you have to do it and what it means, he may respect you more. Not that you need to explain yourself, but he will be coming from a place of ignorance.

I support whatever decision you make and wish you the best on your journey!

Quote from: Christine167 on October 03, 2013, 07:07:25 PM
It's the little green thumbs up button underneath the reputation counter ;)
And some folks do have their Facebook linked up to their account but a lot of us do not.

OK. so I've just used that green button a bunch of times!

I very much agree with the general point that Luna, Randi and Just Shelly have all made in their own ways - and thanks so much for the advice, ladies: I appreciate every word of it!! This is a matter of taking baby steps, a little at a time. It's a bizarre comparison to make, but it's the principle of the frog in boiling water. If you stick a frog straight into a scalding pan (which i wouldn't, by the way!!) it will react in desperate agony. But if you put it in cold water and heat the water gently, it just doesn't notice what's happening ... And I guess that families are like that. If they're confronted with a shocking revelation, they freak out. If they're part of a slow, gently evolving process they adjust, little by little and it's much less traumatic.

And Amira, I've always had the idealistic hope that if my son sees me doing everything I can to make my dream come true, then maybe he will have the confidence to follow his dream too.

Meantime, the beard has got to go! Apart from anything, it's getting greyer by the day. And every silver hair is one more jab of an electrolysis needle ... Not good!

PS: thanks to Kathyk too!

I know a transsexual woman who has had every surgical procedure that Toby Meltzer offers, FFS, BA, GRS etc.   She looks like a very beautiful woman.

She is very loyal to her wife and family so she presents as a man.  She seems quite comfortable with it all.

Randy

It wouldn't be my first choice to do; but as has been discussed a lot can be done that isn't overtly obvious.  In my case I didn't seriously consider it until my daughter graduated high school.  Once she was out of school, that was really my last barrier to going ahead and I have.  My wife, my ex-wife (who's my best friend now and my daughter's biological mother) sat down and discussed it at length and we decided it was better to be up front with her, lest her piece it together on her own.  They both offered to help with it; but I felt I should do it myself which I did.

My daughter keeps a lot of things internal as I do and I'm sure she probably had questions and concerns that she chose not to voice at the time (and maybe even now); but we had a nice long chat about things while we made dinner one evening and she was very supportive.  I believe it was the right decision to share with her and wouldn't change a thing about how it went down.  As it is now, I think we're even closer than we were before.

Speaking as a parent of a son that has had troubles at school from the usual bullying (nothing to do with his family life) and who has not had the happiest life from his parents both having had troubles (not been an easy 27 years eh), the thing is, my son, is also the one that is the most accepting of me all the same.

On my 50th birthday, he made me a crying mess when he gave me a birthday message he had typed out that was utterly accepting. I have never experienced a better moment in my life. I have told him, he will never want while I am around as a result. He can do no wrong as I see it.

That, and you might want to consider, your son, might know a great deal more than you think he does eh. He might already know all there is to know. 15 doesn't mean stupid :)

I think hiding this sort of thing from kids, is more about the adults having a problem with it than it has to do with a child having a problem with it. So 'protecting' him for the next 3 years, might really just be no better than insulting him in the process, just writing off his ability to understand.

If you love your son for real, and if he loves you for real, your gender isn't going to change any of that. You might be surprised eh.

Kids say the funniest things. He might well ask, 'so if you become a woman, then does mom get to do you half the time?'.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on October 05, 2013, 12:23:37 AM
Speaking as a parent of a son that has had troubles at school from the usual bullying (nothing to do with his family life) and who has not had the happiest life from his parents both having had troubles (not been an easy 27 years eh), the thing is, my son, is also the one that is the most accepting of me all the same.

On my 50th birthday, he made me a crying mess when he gave me a birthday message he had typed out that was utterly accepting. I have never experienced a better moment in my life. I have told him, he will never want while I am around as a result. He can do no wrong as I see it.

That, and you might want to consider, your son, might know a great deal more than you think he does eh. He might already know all there is to know. 15 doesn't mean stupid :)

I think hiding this sort of thing from kids, is more about the adults having a problem with it than it has to do with a child having a problem with it. So 'protecting' him for the next 3 years, might really just be no better than insulting him in the process, just writing off his ability to understand.

If you love your son for real, and if he loves you for real, your gender isn't going to change any of that. You might be surprised eh.

Kids say the funniest things. He might well ask, 'so if you become a woman, then does mom get to do you half the time?'.

That was really reassuring ... AND it gave me a laugh at the end. Thanks!  :)