Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Does any other MtF ever get this?

Perhaps I'm just fretting. But it's really confusing and difficult to get my head around this gender issue. I've said before that I only tend to feel happy in my gender when sex is on the brain, and that's probably due to the power of testosterone over my body, as it drives the urges.

But then I also have this nagging feeling, like I've not done enough sexually as a man, and I've only had one long term girlfriend and there's so much more as a man that I could experience. I have this horrible feeling in my mind that if I transition it's like I'm not good enough to be a man? Not in any way saying that men are better than woman, but I mean me personally. Like I've failed. I don't know if I'm articulating this well enough, or if I'm just talking nonsense, but I'd like to know if anybody else has felt like this.

Oh gender issues are far from easy. :(

Not sure what you define as "success" at being a man, but if it were me, I would be more worried about being my authentic self.  I had some sort of male success and it didn't really help how I felt deep inside.

Well, check your panties.  Man or woman? 
Now check your brain. Man or woman?

Which is correct?  Neither.

You are yourself. The social construct in your head is what you're comparing yourself to and trying to live up to.  Whatever that construct is, it isn't you.  Only you are you.

For myself, I've found that I'm often one or the other, but mostly neither - I'm just here.  Just "me."  You can only know what you feel like, never what someone else feels like, man or woman. Everything else is just what you've been taught to believe about men, women, trans, queers, etc. So if you want to experience something, just do it. If you like it, do it again!

It also seems that you are looking within for validation, and that's the right place to look. But don't accept what you think you're supposed to think. Of course we'd all like to be sexual champs, but it more often has to do with whether we feel like tops or bottoms, aggressive or passive. It's nice to be either or enjoy either, but many people are only comfortable being one or the other, not both.  Few can switch without pretending or playing a role.

So you try to be authentic, whatever that is for you.

It's because you are not a man, but a woman and yes, we mtf all, I think, feel this way until we realize we are not men. We were born different yet society took our real selves away because of the outside's we have. Perfectly normal feelings until you accept you are female just like me. Acceptance is VERY freeing. Take care baby, you will be alright. PM me if you want to hear my story.

Dreams,
I don't believe that I have failed as a man. I would prefer that I had never been a man but unfortunately life decided otherwise. I am proud of my life achievements as a man. I have been married to a beautiful woman for 28 years. We have two wonderful adult children. I love them all dearly.
I do however understand what you are saying. Testosterone does drive us albeit we may prefer to be driven by a different hormone. You should never allow yourself feel inadequate in any way. Do the best you can with what life gave you. If you can change that and transition to a girl then all the better for you.
The important thing is that you are happy in yourself so that you can love life.
I hope this made sense.
Ciara.

For the beginning - have You ever been one? Being on this site is quite a marker that You dont really identify Yourself as a man too. And what does it mean to be an accomplished man? To have X sexual encounters with Y women and be sexually outgoing and active? Trust me, those guys are seriously lacking in other departments and half of their stories are BS anyway.
Most of the things men can do, can be done by women as well - sometimes better, sometimes not (and sometimes getting assisted by testosterone does help), but that is not the measure of success. What matters is to live Your life happily and let others live theirs too - and if You can do that, then it does not matter what is in Your panties. But the question still remains - can You live Your life happily as a man? Or...?

I *think* that is pretty natural.  For me, when I first admitted to myself what a part of me had known all along; really consciously admitted I was in the wrong body.  At that point I really had a lot of introspection, looking back on my life as a male.  I didn't do *too* badly... well, apart from that whole puberty thing.  Oh, and being completely out of place all my life.  That time I wanted a doll when my dad took me to the store and it really upset him.  Oh, and always wanting to wear girl clothes... and wishing I had breasts, and that a particular unit was absent...

That's kind of how my mind went.  It is a *huge* change to contemplate... and I don't think any of us can truly realize how far the journey will go or where it will end.  I may never be able to afford bottom surgery, but I *do* know that presenting as female, interacting with the world as a woman, I finally feel "right".  Of course, I'm nearly forty, and I've had a lot of experiences... and I know myself well enough to know that I'm not going to miss a certain unit when/if I can finally be rid of it. 

But thinking about my kids, what it will mean to them that they never really had a "father" in the male sense, that my masculinity was a sham, a facade... wow.  That hurt.  Still does, in fact.

I can also identify with the "when sex is on the brain" thing... when I was younger, twenties and early thirties, I could make it.  When pheromones and hormones were going and the passion was high, yeah, I could "be a man" successfully.  That kept me thinking for a while that I could not possibly be trans. 

All I can say is, work with a therapist, tell her or him about these questions and work it out.  For a while in the transition, things will be reversible, but after a several months on AA's you'll be infertile.  Your brain will start to change, and from what I've read it's irreversible, too.  Transitioning is bad enough without having to go through it again to de-transition... best to be certain.

It's also possible you're somewhere in the middle between male and female, and you will need to work out exactly where you are comfortable. 

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 09, 2013, 03:24:21 PM
Not sure what you define as "success" at being a man, but if it were me, I would be more worried about being my authentic self.  I had some sort of male success and it didn't really help how I felt deep inside.

Yep... that's what I'm talking about. 

And the sense of failure could just be the last vestiges of social programming.  Males are taught all their life that to be female is to be weak.  To cry is to be weak, because that acting "like a girl".  To express your feelings="weak"="girl".  To not be strong enough="weak"="girl", and it goes on and on.  I never bought into that crap, I hated it, but it still had an effect on me.

If you determine that truly, you want to be a woman and that the tiny percentage of the time you spend having sex isn't enough to make you be happy being a man, chances are you are a woman inside. 

To me, looking back on my "success" as a man is somewhat like looking back on a previous job, now.  Did I really work as well as I could?  Did I leave a lasting impact?  What can I take from my experiences there into my new role?

The trick was, I think I did ok in that role, considering I was a poor match for the environment and I really wasn't qualified for the job.  As a woman, I'm actually pretty damned proud of the job I did passing as a man.  ;)

*hug*  You are certainly not alone. :)

Quote from: -Emily- on October 09, 2013, 03:43:59 PM
But the question still remains - can You live Your life happily as a man? Or...?

My sex drive tells me yes, my mind tells me no.

Quote from: robinmack on October 09, 2013, 03:45:10 PM

If you determine that truly, you want to be a woman and that the tiny percentage of the time you spend having sex isn't enough to make you be happy being a man, chances are you are a woman inside. 

This is what I believe as well. My great fear though is that I fear losing my sexuality. Right now I know that I can have sex. But the prospect of it has become a chore, some hunger that needs to be satisfied. It's like rushing down a quick breakfast in the morning when you're on a right schedule. But I fear to lose it. It's a tough situation. But I know in my mind that if the sexuality issue were taken out of the equation, I'd have no desire to be male. So really, I know I'm a woman, I just don't know how to come to terms with leaving the sexuality that I've known for years behind. =/

iv never felt like I failed as the gender I was born , because iv never been that gender :)

I can imagine that... from everything I've read (my HRT journey is waiting in January) the tyrany of desire will decrease with the absence of testosterone, but chances are good that the equipment will work just fine for a good deal of time to come; it may just take more coaxing (if you *want* it to work).  Apparently with the absence of testosterone comes a respite from the constant demands.  I think I never really had much T at all, certainly not in the past several years.  I will be interested to see what my levels are when they take a baseline before I start. :)

As it is, I can say at near-forty I am much less driven to have sex than I was before at any time in my life, and I am very happy about that.  Most times with my girlfriend we ignore the unit's existence, which works for me; I've long described my sexual "preference" as "lesbian with extra bits, boys sometimes on the side as long as they don't have to touch it".  As if THAT wasn't a clue.  :P

As someone who went from asexual (was a blessing, in fact) to hypersexual (it was quite pleasant, but ultimately a curse), I can assure that the HRT will take care of that. In Your case the HRT will be Your litmus paper test for Your assumed male identity. If that identity is strong enough - there will be issues and You will notice them soon enough. If not - things will just go unnoticed :). And believe me, I had those worries too - when I said that I was hypersexual I did not underestimate it. My male libido was extra high, it just demanded and demanded - every day, week after week and sometimes it could go for hours. When You are in Your twenties, it is like kinda fun, but when You are in Your thirties - it starts getting annoying. Nevertheless, I was a bit afraid, because I was scared that my male identity would be struggling because of loosing this hyperdrive. But... I actually never noticed it going away until it was already gone :).

Quote from: -Emily- on October 09, 2013, 04:16:07 PM
As someone who went from asexual (was a blessing, in fact) to hypersexual (it was quite pleasant, but ultimately a curse), I can assure that the HRT will take care of that. In Your case the HRT will be Your litmus paper test for Your assumed male identity. If that identity is strong enough - there will be issues and You will notice them soon enough. If not - things will just go unnoticed :). And believe me, I had those worries too - when I said that I was hypersexual I did not underestimate it. My male libido was extra high, it just demanded and demanded - every day, week after week and sometimes it could go for hours. When You are in Your twenties, it is like kinda fun, but when You are in Your thirties - it starts getting annoying. Nevertheless, I was a bit afraid, because I was scared that my male identity would be struggling because of loosing this hyperdrive. But... I actually never noticed it going away until it was already gone :).

As primitive as it sounds, I'm battling with this thought that I need to have more before I transition? Like I've not had enough sex or something? It sounds so primitive, and I know it's ridiculous, but it's like it just dictates it to me. I can't help it. So much uncertainty!

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 09, 2013, 03:56:36 PM
My sex drive tells me yes, my mind tells me no.

This is what I believe as well. My great fear though is that I fear losing my sexuality. Right now I know that I can have sex. But the prospect of it has become a chore, some hunger that needs to be satisfied. It's like rushing down a quick breakfast in the morning when you're on a right schedule. But I fear to lose it. It's a tough situation. But I know in my mind that if the sexuality issue were taken out of the equation, I'd have no desire to be male. So really, I know I'm a woman, I just don't know how to come to terms with leaving the sexuality that I've known for years behind. =/

If your sex drive is your only male identifier, you are not a man. I think you already know that you are a girl. Take your time coming to terms with losing your male drive but remember all that you will recieve in return....and remember also that girls have sex drive too!!

I never felt like I failed as a man, but that I failed to be a man. One I came to understand that I am trans I no loner see it as a failure at all except perhaps in my honesty to myself.

That said I have an entire upper level of a two car garage filled with power tools that I inherited from my dad and grandfathers that I'll never use. I jokingly refer to it as my "Monument to Male Fail".

i used to be terrified of failing as a woman. did my utmost to be perfect, when that failed, i tried a relationship. in the end i even had a child.

and that's when i realized there's nothing more i could possibly do to be woman enough, and it still hadn't made me into a real woman. it was so bad that i was almost disappointed that my first child was only one, because i knew i wouldn't do this again ever. if i had twin, at least they'd be two...

i'm happy to have a child, but after the experience, i'm still not convinced i wouldn't have been just as happy if i never had a child, and just figured out much sooner that the reason i was so desperate to prove myself as a woman was that i already knew i'm not really one, and i never will be.

so, how many descendants do you need before you're convinced that there never was a point trying to be something you are not?

Fail as a man? Well ya of course I failed as a man, I mean, I'm not one :)

Does it bother me? Well why would it?

Now if I fail at being a woman, I might be annoyed.

I was absolutely convinced that I was a girl in my earlier years.

By the fifth and sixth grades I became aware that my girl friends were changing in one direction and I was changing in the other.

By the time I was 16 years old a slightly younger, but more experienced girl took a liking to me and over the period of a few months seduced me and taught me to have sex with her.  To make it work I had to dis-associate my brain from my body.  I had to "step outside" and let my body do what it wanted to.  I concentrated on what the girl was feeling and how she was reacting.

Strangely enough, this worked.  Not only with that girl, but with many others.  I learned to let go of my body and let it act on it's own, while I tried to project my mind into the girl's body.

From age 16 to 56, a period of 40 years I was able to fake it.  I had a normal, successful life and career and have a very talented and highly educated adult daughter now.

In my mid-fifties as my testosterone began to fail, I could no longer keep up the pretense.  In recent years I've had to admit to myself that I was never really male.

Now at age 64, I'm retired from a successful career and am 31 years into a successful marriage with a woman who loves me very much and actually seems to enjoy sex with her formerly male husband.

Transitioning earlier would not have worked well for me.  Some might say that I'm not really transsexual.  I believe I always was transsexual, but was able to get a "suspended sentence" for 40 years.

No one should transition any sooner they they "have to" or go any further than the "need to".

Randi

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 09, 2013, 04:33:14 PM
As primitive as it sounds, I'm battling with this thought that I need to have more before I transition? Like I've not had enough sex or something? It sounds so primitive, and I know it's ridiculous, but it's like it just dictates it to me. I can't help it. So much uncertainty!

Quote from: Taka on October 09, 2013, 06:30:10 PM
i used to be terrified of failing as a woman. did my utmost to be perfect, when that failed, i tried a relationship. in the end i even had a child.

and that's when i realized there's nothing more i could possibly do to be woman enough, and it still hadn't made me into a real woman. it was so bad that i was almost disappointed that my first child was only one, because i knew i wouldn't do this again ever. if i had twin, at least they'd be two...

i'm happy to have a child, but after the experience, i'm still not convinced i wouldn't have been just as happy if i never had a child, and just figured out much sooner that the reason i was so desperate to prove myself as a woman was that i already knew i'm not really one, and i never will be.

so, how many descendants do you need before you're convinced that there never was a point trying to be something you are not?

I want to give you a big big hug! Minus never having a child I have the exact same feelings on "trying" to be a man that I never was.

Quote from: ErinM on October 09, 2013, 06:11:09 PM
I never felt like I failed as a man, but that I failed to be a man.

Oh, the words of true wisdom :). Many of us have had successes as men - we can see it in disbelieving eyes of our family members, friends, colleagues when we come out to them - "But... but You are so /insert Your adjective here/... and never was /insert another opposite one here :) /. Well, in the long term, that did not help us and we are where we are now :).
ErinM, You have powertools :) - I have swords, armor and survivalist stuff :).

Failed as a man? Oh please being a man is so easy in fact that's why bumped up the difficulty level and became a woman. ;) But really I don't see myself as failing anything being a man wasn't for me but I sure didn't fail at it. I don't fail at anything and I proved that even if you put me in a male body this girl still succeeds and shows the men how it's done.  :icon_bumdance-nerd:

Hi.

Is there a difference between men and women . i know that answer very well. yet what if you join them both together so you can not seperate one from the other,  yet retian some of both .

Now im not talking about whats  been learned, because that is what is very importaint, if not then you could allmost act in a role of ether quite well as some have, and fool people though you wont fool your self till you belive you are ether a male or female regurdless what you have or not between your legs,

Again what if your hormones are different some of both here we go again thats not learned. nore can be . thats from long before birth,

When your intersexed you dont have a learned male or female detail going on , its with in you again long before birth,
If you meet me youd be trying to figger me out am i male or a female.  well both as it is so i give mixed messiges  so youd be confused till you get to know me then youd understand im female plus male .

So as some have they discount who i am as a female , though the many 1000's i know accepted long ago i am female just different thats all.

You feel as though youv failed,  i did fail outright, no brain or mind as a male never thought as one nore could  xwired miss wired what ever took place mixed my wires, or i am female with male detail,, some body well did  detail  so how ever you look at it we can be different .

Yes i know totaly i failed as a sorposed male or percived as one, was not who i was / am.

I know as a woman / female i discount myself & am embarrised of who i am  yet remember we had no say how we were to be born so dont take it on board we have a life dont we so we should just get on with life & enjoy being who we are,  dont put your self down i know what its like not a good place i can tell you. dont try and prove what you are , just ...be .....who you are, others will.

...noeleena...

Quote from: -Emily- on October 10, 2013, 12:02:33 AM
Oh, the words of true wisdom :). Many of us have had successes as men - we can see it in disbelieving eyes of our family members, friends, colleagues when we come out to them - "But... but You are so /insert Your adjective here/... and never was /insert another opposite one here :) /. Well, in the long term, that did not help us and we are where we are now :).
ErinM, You have powertools :) - I have swords, armor and survivalist stuff :).

And who says women can't use any of those eh? ;)

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 10, 2013, 03:21:43 AM
And who says women can't use any of those eh? ;)

Oh, I still can :) Except, now, when I take a sword and make a few swings in the air, i first note how heavy it has become, and secondly I am feeling like "Ewww.... what a stupid thing, which is made to harm other people..." This is what the HRT does to Your brain ;). I also tried to fit some of my old stuff a couple of weeks ago and could not disregard how strange and totally off I looked in the steel helmet.

"I feel like I've failed as a man."

Excuse me for laughing out loud but when I was a teenager and struggling with my identity (well, OTHERS were struggling with my identity; I wasn't!) I wondered "What if  I was SUPPOSED to live this life as a man? What if that was the purpose?" and I was failing miserably! I never had a girlfriend (not in that way) and wasn't even remotely interested - now boys, on the other hand were a different story! I never had sex with a girl (well once just before SRS but that was a joke - long story!) but I had been with a man on more than one occasion but knew I wasn't Gay because I didn't want to be with a man as a male. The idea of being a father turned my stomach but I would have jumped at the chance to be a mother! My feelings toward babies was very strongly maternal and not at all paternal. All in all I was a total failure as a male but a natural as a female.

So what if I was  SUPPOSED to be male in this life and failed? Would that mean I would have to come back and try again in the next life? I came to the conclusion that if that was  the case, I was going to reincarnated again and again forever because I just couldn't get into the swing of it AT ALL! And that's why I laugh at the thought of "failing as a man".  ;D

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 10, 2013, 05:28:38 AM
So what if I was  SUPPOSED to be male in this life and failed? Would that mean I would have to come back and try again in the next life? I came to the conclusion that if that was  the case, I was going to reincarnated again and again forever because I just couldn't get into the swing of it AT ALL! And that's why I laugh at the thought of "failing as a man".  ;D

Well, I have nothing against being a male in my next life - could be lot of fun, by the way. But I just dont see a purpose for being born with male body but with female-wired brains - that's were I struggle.
I am sure, if I had normal male-wired brains, I would be quite a nice male specimen... There are many male disciplines were transwomen-in-denial have continuously exceeded cis-guys. Imagine, what we would have accomplised with male-wiring :P.

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 10, 2013, 03:21:43 AM
And who says women can't use any of those eh? ;)

The funny thing is long before I started transition I had a co-worker find it difficult to believe that I used let alone owned a drill.

Apparently "nice guys" as she called me can't. ;D

There was a lot of expectation that I never lived up to. Thankfully my dad never forced me into too many male activities. I only wish he got to meet the real me.

Quote from: Megan on October 09, 2013, 08:15:01 PM
I want to give you a big big hug! Minus never having a child I have the exact same feelings on "trying" to be a man that I never was.

*hugs*
because you said you wanted it.

i can only shake my head at my younger self. honestly, what was i thinking... now i'll just do my best to be me, should be much harder to fail at that.

Quote from: -Emily- on October 10, 2013, 05:40:51 AM...... But I just dont see a purpose for being born with male body but with female-wired brains - that's were I struggle ......

I hear ya! If there is a god, he's got a LOT of explaining to do when I get to the other side!!!!!

Quote from: Northern Jane on October 10, 2013, 10:25:48 AM
I hear ya! If there is a god, he's got a LOT of explaining to do when I get to the other side!!!!!

There will be a reckoning!!! :)

Very much. I've felt like a failure as a man for years. I realize some of that is just my own perfectionism, but even accounting for that, those feelings remained. I felt like I was expected to "be a man," yet I never had the slightest clue how. Realizing now why that is has actually brought a certain sense of relief.

Quote from: robinmack on October 09, 2013, 03:45:10 PM
And the sense of failure could just be the last vestiges of social programming.  Males are taught all their life that to be female is to be weak.  To cry is to be weak, because that acting "like a girl".  To express your feelings="weak"="girl".  To not be strong enough="weak"="girl", and it goes on and on.  I never bought into that crap, I hated it, but it still had an effect on me.

This. I too always felt this was nonsense, but its impact on me has been profound nevertheless. I've always had a soft and vulnerable nature, and it always bothered me that having feelings or any sort of weakness was perfectly acceptable for women, but somehow invalidated your worth as a man. Even knowing that was bunk didn't stop it from doing damage to me.

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 09, 2013, 04:33:14 PM
Like I've not had enough sex or something? It sounds so primitive, and I know it's ridiculous

It's not ridiculous, I feel it too sometimes. For me, though, at least, the only times I've succeeded as a man was when I showed my feminine side. Those of us that are good really actors are out in Hollywood, making millions, and not caring what role they portray, as long is it pays good. Most of us are not good actors and have no idea how to accurately portray any man persona. Why should you care that you are not a good actor if that is not your chosen profession?

Quote from: Heather on October 10, 2013, 12:29:34 AM
Failed as a man? Oh please being a man is so easy in fact that's why bumped up the difficulty level and became a woman. ;) But really I don't see myself as failing anything being a man wasn't for me but I sure didn't fail at it. I don't fail at anything and I proved that even if you put me in a male body this girl still succeeds and shows the men how it's done.  :icon_bumdance-nerd:

LMAO!

I don't feel like I failed as being a man. I had a pretty good run at it. I feel more frustrated as to why I can't just accept it and live a decent life as a man. That part is upsetting. I also feel like I've failed as a partner in my relationship. That's another difficult challenge to work with.

I was never a very good man, in the sense that I could do manlyish things. I've always been some artsy femmy guy and did whatever I could to diminish my manliness as much as I though I could get away with. I had a very good sex life and had multiple relationships and that was always enjoyable (and still is, the sex I mean) but it wasn't that fulfilling. I remember that after every breakup, I would always end up doing something to "reward" myself. Like now I don't have a GF I can go ahead and shave my legs again. Things like that.

I think I always expected I would grow into my role as a man, and that never happened. It just got worse the longer I dragged it out and after I had done the things I expected to enjoy as a man (mostly sleeping around), there wasn't anything left about it I desired and I was basically done with it.

Quote from: TiffanyT on October 10, 2013, 11:33:23 PM
I think I always expected I would grow into my role as a man, and that never happened. It just got worse the longer I dragged it out.

Curiously, but I have the same experience. Yet, as my transition unfolds, I feel like while I am finally becoming what I have always been inside, I am at the same time becoming a better and more mature person as well. I often wonder, if that is why teen girls are so much smarter, intelligent and composed than boys of the same age, who are just being torn apart by effects of testosterone...

Quote from: -Emily- on October 11, 2013, 02:08:49 AM
Curiously, but I have the same experience. Yet, as my transition unfolds, I feel like while I am finally becoming what I have always been inside, I am at the same time becoming a better and more mature person as well. I often wonder, if that is why teen girls are so much smarter, intelligent and composed than boys of the same age, who are just being torn apart by effects of testosterone...

I gotta say, testosterone is a very immature and primitive hormone. It clouds judgement. At least it does in my experience.

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 09, 2013, 03:07:33 PM
Does any other MtF ever get this?

Perhaps I'm just fretting. But it's really confusing and difficult to get my head around this gender issue. I've said before that I only tend to feel happy in my gender when sex is on the brain, and that's probably due to the power of testosterone over my body, as it drives the urges.

But then I also have this nagging feeling, like I've not done enough sexually as a man, and I've only had one long term girlfriend and there's so much more as a man that I could experience. I have this horrible feeling in my mind that if I transition it's like I'm not good enough to be a man? Not in any way saying that men are better than woman, but I mean me personally. Like I've failed. I don't know if I'm articulating this well enough, or if I'm just talking nonsense, but I'd like to know if anybody else has felt like this.

Oh gender issues are far from easy. :(

I'm going to read all the posts once I a get a chance, but I wanted to comment on the op for now.

I'm a 24 year old virgin and never had a girlfriend.  Sometimes I think that sounds pathetic, but honestly I never wanted a girlfriend nor do I ever hope to have "male" sex in any way.  So, it's not a failure in my eyes.  More like a success to avoid something I never wanted.  Plus, my failures aren't always because of my gender, so to speak.  Sure, the hardships are real and some were very much present because of gender issues, but my failures are a mixture of circumstances and me failing to meet the task at hand.  The same can be said of my successes.  Part of it is hard work and the other is the circumstances that helped allow me to thrive.  Most success and failures are a mixture of circumstance and personal responsibility; however, gender issues can come into play (and often do in my case) but gender isn't all we are and being cis doesn't guarantee that we would have succeeded where we failed.  Dysphoria adds to it in a big way, but it isn't why we fail.   At the end of the day, I'll be the same person after transitioning.  Yeah, I'll be happier, more confident and like how I look, but that doesn't change the fact that I still must deal with my current flaws and past failures.  Transitioning can be great and a huge life saver, just don't expect it to be a constant SOS because you will be disappointed when you realize it can't fix everything.

Plus, I don't no what it is to be a failure of a man or a successful man.  I'm just a woman with both failures and successes.  That's just my take.

Nonetheless, I do understand the concept and believe it will open some great discussion.  I look forward to reading the rest of this.   

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 11, 2013, 02:10:49 AM
I gotta say, testosterone is a very immature and primitive hormone. It clouds judgement. At least it does in my experience.

I would not say that estrogen facilites towards clear and streamlined way of thinking either... At least not from my personal experience :). T tends to cloud judgment during dangerous situations or when the aggression is triggered for some reason, but it does so because all self-preservation and survival systems in the body are injected with T and adrenaline. Whereas E gives that super-emotional smily mood without apparent reason, when I suddenly feel like I am the happiest person in the world and I just wanna share it with others ;).

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 09, 2013, 03:07:33 PM
Does any other MtF ever get this?

Perhaps I'm just fretting. But it's really confusing and difficult to get my head around this gender issue. I've said before that I only tend to feel happy in my gender when sex is on the brain, and that's probably due to the power of testosterone over my body, as it drives the urges.

But then I also have this nagging feeling, like I've not done enough sexually as a man, and I've only had one long term girlfriend and there's so much more as a man that I could experience. I have this horrible feeling in my mind that if I transition it's like I'm not good enough to be a man? Not in any way saying that men are better than woman, but I mean me personally. Like I've failed. I don't know if I'm articulating this well enough, or if I'm just talking nonsense, but I'd like to know if anybody else has felt like this.

Dreams2014 - This post, and your later comments are verrrry close to how I feel currently!!

Yes I feel like I'm failing as a man, and I do feel I have responsibility to be one both socially and biologically. I do realise that alot of this socialisation pressures etc, but I do also feel quite conflicted as to whether I as a man am worth more than the composite male/female I may become (because I identify as androgyne). This issue and your question is a VERY personal one indeed. I doubt they'll be much commonality in the answers.

Also - yes I do very much feel that my sex drive says no but my mind says yes, too. My sex drive wants me to remain male but my mind is constantly genderfluid at best, with a major leaning to feminine presentation and various other aspects. Interestingly, I was about to make a post which talked about the (much maligned) concept of genetic males transitioning because their sexual desires tell them to, and how I felt that in my case my sex drive was telling me NOT to take hormones, instead of telling me too - which is the usual narrative, apparently.

Also as noted in another reply to this post - if sexuality is the only affiliation to your gender, than that's a very shaky foundation on which to build a solid gender identity. And that is EXACTLY how I feel about myself. I adores my sexuality, I like the feelings of being turned on and being intimate, and I would hate to loose that, it would be devestating to never feel any attraction or frisson of excitement again. Other than that though, there's not much about being male that I genuinely identify with.

May I message you Dreams2014? As I feel we may have some commonalities in our way of thinking and feeling, which could be good to talk about. :-)

Quote from: learningtolive on October 11, 2013, 03:05:02 AM
I'm going to read all the posts once I a get a chance, but I wanted to comment on the op for now.

I'm a 24 year old virgin and never had a girlfriend.  Sometimes I think that sounds pathetic, but honestly I never wanted a girlfriend nor do I ever hope to have "male" sex in any way.  So, it's not a failure in my eyes.  More like a success to avoid something I never wanted.  Plus, my failures aren't always because of my gender, so to speak.  Sure, the hardships are real and some were very much present because of gender issues, but my failures are a mixture of circumstances and me failing to meet the task at hand.  The same can be said of my successes.  Part of it is hard work and the other is the circumstances that helped allow me to thrive.  Most success and failures are a mixture of circumstance and personal responsibility; however, gender issues can come into play (and often do in my case) but gender isn't all we are and being cis doesn't guarantee that we would have succeeded where we failed.  Dysphoria adds to it in a big way, but it isn't why we fail.   At the end of the day, I'll be the same person after transitioning.  Yeah, I'll be happier, more confident and like how I look, but that doesn't change the fact that I still must deal with my current flaws and past failures.  Transitioning can be great and a huge life saver, just don't expect it to be a constant SOS because you will be disappointed when you realize it can't fix everything.

Plus, I don't no what it is to be a failure of a man or a successful man.  I'm just a woman with both failures and successes.  That's just my take.

Nonetheless, I do understand the concept and believe it will open some great discussion.  I look forward to reading the rest of this.

Thanks for the insight L2L.

To be honest I know many trans woman were virgins pre transition, but I'm not. I had a long term girlfriend, who I loved dearly. I've had multiple sexual partners, all women. And once upon a time I used to love sex as a man. Somewhere down the line, dysphoria manifested itself. And now sex as man has lost almost all of its appeal. And its only in those times that I like being male, because of the sex. But my sexual encounters are few and far between. I thought about it a lot, and came to the realization that It's only in those times that I want to be male. When I think rationally I know in my mind that I am a woman, so on Monday I go to the GP and get the ball rolling. It's got to be done.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on October 11, 2013, 07:55:46 AM
Dreams2014 - This post, and your later comments are verrrry close to how I feel currently!!

Yes I feel like I'm failing as a man, and I do feel I have responsibility to be one both socially and biologically. I do realise that alot of this socialisation pressures etc, but I do also feel quite conflicted as to whether I as a man am worth more than the composite male/female I may become (because I identify as androgyne). This issue and your question is a VERY personal one indeed. I doubt they'll be much commonality in the answers.

Also - yes I do very much feel that my sex drive says no but my mind says yes, too. My sex drive wants me to remain male but my mind is constantly genderfluid at best, with a major leaning to feminine presentation and various other aspects. Interestingly, I was about to make a post which talked about the (much maligned) concept of genetic males transitioning because their sexual desires tell them to, and how I felt that in my case my sex drive was telling me NOT to take hormones, instead of telling me too - which is the usual narrative, apparently.

Also as noted in another reply to this post - if sexuality is the only affiliation to your gender, than that's a very shaky foundation on which to build a solid gender identity. And that is EXACTLY how I feel about myself. I adores my sexuality, I like the feelings of being turned on and being intimate, and I would hate to loose that, it would be devestating to never feel any attraction or frisson of excitement again. Other than that though, there's not much about being male that I genuinely identify with.

May I message you Dreams2014? As I feel we may have some commonalities in our way of thinking and feeling, which could be good to talk about. :-)

Hey Stella,

I appreciate the comment! It does reassure me to know that somebody else feels the same way I do, and faces the same conflicts in their mind. What you've said is pretty much how I feel, minus the Androgynous part, as I feel for me I either remain as I am or make a transition to be female.

Of course you can message me :) xx

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on October 11, 2013, 07:55:46 AM

Also as noted in another reply to this post - if sexuality is the only affiliation to your gender, than that's a very shaky foundation on which to build a solid gender identity. And that is EXACTLY how I feel about myself. I adores my sexuality, I like the feelings of being turned on and being intimate, and I would hate to loose that, it would be devestating to never feel any attraction or frisson of excitement again.

This has sort of been my problem too. I totally wanted a sex change operation when I was 8 or 9, it was pretty much all I talked and thought about, after I heard it was possible, up until I hit puberty. Sexuality really complicates things for me, as I love sex, and don't entirely mind having with women it as a guy does. It's sometimes easier to define what you are not, rather than what you are. I know that I am not a man, but I also know that I am not asexual.

You're not alone. My family treats their last name very preciously, and even though my dad had 5 brothers that would pass it down, those 6 brothers only produced 5 sons, along with 10 daughters. Of those 5 sons, one is married, one is disabled, one is becoming a priest, I'm transgendered, and one is too young to tell. The thought of having only 2 that can pass down the family name worries him (of course, he thinks it's 3, or, I'm not sure. He had a period where he thought for sure I was gay, and pretended to not know that that was,) and it impacts me as well, I feel, as much grief as my family gives me, that I've let them down in this aspect, as well as many other supposed "masculine" activities. I never made the football team in high school, or wrestled, or cared much about anything like hunting or whatever that my dad wanted to get me into.
Hang on, we'll get through this. It'll work itself all out.

This might be a little OT but I've always held a certain amount of admiration and respect towards strong, confident men. Or men like my father. Or generally, men who are good fathers. Men who do take their responsibilities to their families first, and they make sacrifices for them. I guess I have an idealized standard of what men are supposed to be, and I think it is a good standard and something worth taking a great deal of pride in achieving.

In that case, I think there are a lot of failures who wish they were men. You see them all the time. "Men" who are arrogant, insecure jerks who treat others like crap. Or "men" who have abandoned their children. Or "men" who are nothing but low life thugs. Or "men" who beat their wives. Or "men" who commit rape, incest, molest their nieces and all that horrible group. Those "men" are the real failures as far as I'm concerned. I know who I am and I didn't have to ruin anyone else's life to prove it.

A lot of the guys I know are jerks. They cheat, lie and treat woman as servants. Many guys have a lot of sex with woman and treat then like crap. They have so much crap nonsense about how inferior woman are. I never bought into that way of life.

I guess I failed as a man. I am with the 1st person who loved me and for 23 years. She found a drunk 325 lbm person drinking to death in a real dive bar.  I bonded to her and owe her my life.

I am the last of my line for family name, oh well.

I just recently am mostly present during sex, as opposed to being in a black void. I can feel and connect. I love the feel of skin against me and to look into her face; I missed a lifetime of contact.

I was afraid of everything and I mean everything less the last 4 months.   

Quote from: Willow on October 12, 2013, 07:59:04 PM
You're not alone. My family treats their last name very preciously, and even though my dad had 5 brothers that would pass it down, those 6 brothers only produced 5 sons, along with 10 daughters. Of those 5 sons, one is married, one is disabled, one is becoming a priest, I'm transgendered, and one is too young to tell. The thought of having only 2 that can pass down the family name worries him (of course, he thinks it's 3, or, I'm not sure. He had a period where he thought for sure I was gay, and pretended to not know that that was,) and it impacts me as well, I feel, as much grief as my family gives me, that I've let them down in this aspect, as well as many other supposed "masculine" activities. I never made the football team in high school, or wrestled, or cared much about anything like hunting or whatever that my dad wanted to get me into.
Hang on, we'll get through this. It'll work itself all out.

I completely understand you. My dad was the only male born in his family with 4 sisters. The end of the line stops with me as I know 100% that I will never have a child through the "normal" way if any way to be honest. I feel like I've failed my entire family and to that all I can do is shrug my shoulders. Because I really never was a man to begin with and I know it for a fact.

Quote from: Megan on October 13, 2013, 12:40:26 PMI completely understand you. My dad was the only male born in his family with 4 sisters. The end of the line stops with me as I know 100% that I will never have a child through the "normal" way if any way to be honest. I feel like I've failed my entire family and to that all I can do is shrug my shoulders. Because I really never was a man to begin with and I know it for a fact.

I don't know if I was really a man to begin with, I didn't know the differences between them until I was nearly 12. Of course, I never knew about homosexuality until then either, but in my mentality at that age, and that I have kept, I never cared who married who, as long as they loved eachother.
I still don't get the idea of passing down the family name anyways. First off, no one agrees how to spell it, and second, no one but me recognises what the correct spelling really is!
I'm coming up with a whole new last name for myself when I come up with a first name.

By reading some of the commits on this thread you would think that just because you didn't do what a male is stereotypically supposed to do you fail as a man? I never really did what normal men did either but that doesn't mean I failed as one. I don't think a man or a woman can fail at their gender, a man can be just as feminine as a woman is and there is nothing wrong with that. People are different and not every man is the same like every woman is not the same.
Who's to say had I been born a woman I would have been super successful at it? I seem to be successful at being myself, but that's because I stopped trying to fit in the preconceived notion of what a man or a woman is supposed to be, and I just concentrate on being the best Heather I can be. ;)

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 09, 2013, 03:07:33 PM
Does any other MtF ever get this?

Perhaps I'm just fretting. But it's really confusing and difficult to get my head around this gender issue. I've said before that I only tend to feel happy in my gender when sex is on the brain, and that's probably due to the power of testosterone over my body, as it drives the urges.

But then I also have this nagging feeling, like I've not done enough sexually as a man, and I've only had one long term girlfriend and there's so much more as a man that I could experience. I have this horrible feeling in my mind that if I transition it's like I'm not good enough to be a man? Not in any way saying that men are better than woman, but I mean me personally. Like I've failed. I don't know if I'm articulating this well enough, or if I'm just talking nonsense, but I'd like to know if anybody else has felt like this.

Oh gender issues are far from easy. :(

for me it dosn't sound as you failed
why? because you havent dont enough sexually but only had 1 long term girlfriend.

Honestly its more than I could say. I never really had a long term relationship, and I think it more valued than random sexual stuff you can do. I think even when alot of guys are pretty sexual minded, specially around puperty I think deep down they care more for a good relationship.

so for me it not a fail.

Quote from: Megan on October 13, 2013, 12:40:26 PM
I feel like I've failed my entire family and to that all I can do is shrug my shoulders.

If you did have children and they were only girls, would you still have "failed" as a man because the name wouldn't continue?

Quote from: Dreams2014 on October 09, 2013, 03:07:33 PM
Does any other MtF ever get this?

Perhaps I'm just fretting. But it's really confusing and difficult to get my head around this gender issue. I've said before that I only tend to feel happy in my gender when sex is on the brain, and that's probably due to the power of testosterone over my body, as it drives the urges.

But then I also have this nagging feeling, like I've not done enough sexually as a man, and I've only had one long term girlfriend and there's so much more as a man that I could experience. I have this horrible feeling in my mind that if I transition it's like I'm not good enough to be a man? Not in any way saying that men are better than woman, but I mean me personally. Like I've failed. I don't know if I'm articulating this well enough, or if I'm just talking nonsense, but I'd like to know if anybody else has felt like this.

Oh gender issues are far from easy. :(

Life isn't a test. It's not something you can fail at. It's just something you live. How you live it is determined by the individual. What it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman, these are also determined by the individual. Insomuch as you are the human being.

Not being ruled by your reproductive organs doesn't make you less of anything. It makes you more of a sentient person, with emotion, the capacity to think, to feel. To decide for yourself the way you want to live.

You're good enough to be whatever you want to be. However you want to be it. :)

Oddly, I feel exactly the opposite of OP.

I've succeeded as a man.

I've had a satisfying sex life (up until the last few years of my marriage), with a lot of variety and adventure when I was single. I've been good to my family, I've been successful at my career(s) and a good example to the people around me. Although I'm not macho, can't fight, can't build or fix stuff, and lack a few other skills traditionally expected of men, I don't think that has anything to do with success as a male.

OTOH, I feel like I have a lot to learn to be successful as a FEMALE.

The kind of woman I aspire to be is sensitive to the feelings of the people around her, is a good friend, is nurturing and patient, and lifts the spirits of the people around her.

I have a long way to go.

I tend to step on people's feelings (and then berate myself afterward for being so obtuse), am self-centered and self-involved, am prone to irritation, and frequently let my stress boil over onto everyone else.

*SIGH*