Susan's Place Transgender Resources

What the Sex-Change Industry Doesn't Tell You
9:30AM EDT 10/4/2013 Michael Brown   

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/41250-what-the-sex-change-industry-doesn-t-tell-you (http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/41250-what-the-sex-change-industry-doesn-t-tell-you)

The story from Belgium was absolutely tragic. A 44-year-old woman disappointed by her female-to-male surgery decided to die by euthanasia, feeling that the surgery had left her a monster. But the story behind the story is even more tragic.

Of course, if we simply believed the glowing reports in the media, you would think that everyone who has sex-change surgery is perfectly happy with the results. In keeping with that mentality, there's a new term we are supposed to use—namely, gender-realignment surgery. This replaces the previous new term, sex-reassignment surgery, which replaced the more graphic term, sex-change surgery.

And make no mistake about it: This is a radical surgery involving removing and changing perfectly healthy organs and body parts simply because the person is convinced in his or her mind that the parts shouldn't be there.

::)

Shana, I wonder if I could make a humble suggestion for another news board just for anti-transgender propaganda such as this?

It's good that you and the other members of the news staff post them - we should know what the world is saying about us.

But a separate board would make it much easier for forum members to tune those stories out while still still paying attention to reliable news that affects us directly.

The sad thing about this is people like my family read this kinda garbage and believe it word for word. Then they come and tell me I have mental issues because people like this guy are experts, and I chose to be this way when I should be like them instead. Because we all know everybody is the same straight and normal and picking up a bible makes you an expert on everything.  ::)

Citing Bible is the climax. There are many cults here too, and they are minors and jerks, too. But still can influence some believers.

Barbie~~

Actually, as one progresses towards transition, the warning that "transition is not for everyone, think well about it before doing it" came to me from several directions (pro-TS directions) before I'd even started trying to get HRT.

In this particular case, there were other factors involved, not just a "botched" surgery.

Quote from: suzifrommd on October 11, 2013, 07:33:34 AM
Shana, I wonder if I could make a humble suggestion for another news board just for anti-transgender propaganda such as this?

It's good that you and the other members of the news staff post them - we should know what the world is saying about us.

But a separate board would make it much easier for forum members to tune those stories out while still still paying attention to reliable news that affects us directly.

Thanks for your suggestion, Suzi! We have contemplated creating more sub-forums, however every board added would affect our current bandwidth usage issues. Perhaps this can happen in the future as the site grows.

Shana

Suffice it to say that if there is a hell, that person's mother would be a well qualified candidate!  >:-)

Quote from: Beth Andrea on October 11, 2013, 11:06:39 AM
Actually, as one progresses towards transition, the warning that "transition is not for everyone, think well about it before doing it" came to me from several directions (pro-TS directions) before I'd even started trying to get HRT.

In this particular case, there were other factors involved, not just a "botched" surgery.

Yeah, but read the comments.  The article itself had valid points, though some questionable biases. (That IS a christian site)

The comments on that site are horribly ignorant towards transsexuals.

In regards to the original article I found it clearly obvious that he was upset not because of his decision to transition, but because of how faulty his FtM surgery was with a combination with the lack of a support network, he didn't even have his family.

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 11, 2013, 02:34:57 PM
Yeah, but read the comments.  The article itself had valid points, though some questionable biases. (That IS a christian site)

The comments on that site are horribly ignorant towards transsexuals.

In regards to the original article I found it clearly obvious that he was upset not because of his decision to transition, but because of how faulty his FtM surgery was with a combination with the lack of a support network, he didn't even have his family.

I never read the comments. There are far too many people out there who are...far too foolish for my interest.

When I saw that the article waswritten by Dr. Michael Brown, I KNEW the direction that article was headed.  I first saw him on   I respect the man as a scholar and I enjoyed a couple of debates he had with James White on Calvinism.  However, his strong protest against the LBGT community rubs me the wrong way, naturally as it should, although when it comes to the transgender topic I can sense his compassion to want to help people be comfortable in their birth-given sex, even though the world doesn't work like that all the time since surgery and transition IS the key to a happier life for some.

Quote from: Heather on October 11, 2013, 07:56:52 AM
The sad thing about this is people like my family read this kinda garbage and believe it word for word. Then they come and tell me I have mental issues because people like this guy are experts, and I chose to be this way when I should be like them instead. Because we all know everybody is the same straight and normal and picking up a bible makes you an expert on everything.  ::)

This kind of reminds me of this clip of him on the Tyra show when I first saw him.


http://youtu.be/E1o2Im6t6Mo

There's a sex change industry?

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on October 11, 2013, 11:05:02 PM
There's a sex change industry?

Yep. It's a conspiracy. We're all just poor misguided people who have been brainwashed by evil doctors into thinking that we have a problem that we don't. We didn't know what our problem was, but they poked and prodded us and brainwashed our feeble little minds into thinking that the only way to happiness was surgery. Because, you know, surgery is SO easy to get. It's not like we have a million protections in place to make sure that it's the right thing for people to do before they do it or anything.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 13, 2013, 12:43:35 PM
Yep. It's a conspiracy. We're all just poor misguided people who have been brainwashed by evil doctors into thinking that we have a problem that we don't. We didn't know what our problem was, but they poked and prodded us and brainwashed our feeble little minds into thinking that the only way to happiness was surgery. Because, you know, surgery is SO easy to get. It's not like we have a million protections in place to make sure that it's the right thing for people to do before they do it or anything.

Uh-huh all the result of nanny state thinking. Too bad that we're all so stupid that we don't know our own minds and hearts!

And they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling Christian news sites...

Quote from: Shantel on October 13, 2013, 01:05:43 PM
Uh-huh all the result of nanny state thinking. Too bad that we're all so stupid that we don't know our own minds and hearts!

Well, the main idea of the article was fair-  I don't think he did get enough of the "protocols" and what not before his surgery, I also don't think he shopped around for the right surgeon.
The bias of it wasn't about the situation- it was about how he blatantly let his views corrode the entire article.  He made it very clear that he thought it was a choice and that this could be "talked out of"
Yes, you can be talked out of it but it doesn't last forever, and in the future it gets worse.

So, the main idea I agree with.  There should have been more communication and they should have dug deeper in to what's going on in his life-
The biases however are ridiculously ignorant.

I'll also add, he's very adamant about these ideas- he's stated them time and time again.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 13, 2013, 01:16:09 PM
And they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling Christian news sites...

Yeah I know they come across as pretty uninformed and biased by their own ignorance, but you can also attribute it to the Muslim organizations eventually since they are taking over the world. Give the Christians a break! Any religious organization regardless of which kind or stripe usually bases their opinions on their own book of beliefs rather than on current intelligent sources and often times believe the skewed preacher that occasionally occupies the pulpet. I am a Christian as well as many others here and it gets real tiresome reading Christian bashing comments by those who supposedly decry every kind of hypocrisy and yet come off with their own brand of bias which is in turn just more hypocrisy. I don't buy into a lot of what those ignorant sensationalists that use and twist scripture to make their point have to say, most of it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ, just as beheading people and honor killing one's own daughters doesn't have anything to do with the faith of a true practicing Moslem. So lets not perpetuate ignorance here and consider the fact that not everyone's personal thoughts and beliefs come from the same cookie cutter mentality!

Quote from: Shantel on October 13, 2013, 01:35:16 PM
Yeah I know they come across as pretty uninformed and biased by their own ignorance, but you can also attribute it to the Muslim organizations eventually since they are taking over the world. Give the Christians a break! Any religious organization regardless of which kind or stripe usually bases their opinions on their own book of beliefs rather than on current intelligent sources and often times believe the skewed preacher that occasionally occupies the pulpet. I am a Christian as well as many others here and it gets real tiresome reading Christian bashing comments by those who supposedly decry every kind of hypocrisy and yet come off with their own brand of bias which is in turn just more hypocrisy. I don't buy into a lot of what those ignorant sensationalists that use and twist scripture to make their point have to say, most of it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ, just as beheading people and honor killing one's own daughters doesn't have anything to do with the faith of a true practicing Moslem. So lets not perpetuate ignorance here and consider the fact that not everyone's personal thoughts and beliefs come from the same cookie cutter mentality!

Shan, I'm a Christian myself... I'm not bashing them. I'm just poking fun at the self-righteous Christian organizations that constantly act like the entire rest of the world is stupid and only they, the true crusaders for Chrsitlike justice, know the truth about all of these other heathen misguided people. They act like they're constantly unmasking the "truth" behind everything, hence the Scooby-Doo reference.

In all seriousness, though, I know that this article does have a legitimate point. Transition is NOT right for everyone. There are indeed people who have regrets, to the point that it destroys their lives. That is an important thing to recognize. Where it goes wrong, though, is where certain people use these regret stories to insinuate that ALL transgender people will have regrets, and are just deluding themselves. Or, for that matter, hearing stories where transition did work for someone else and therefore all people having similar thoughts should transition.

Ultimately, whenever I hear stories like this, from either side, I think of the following cartoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq0a5JTSGvU

Don't let people telling you that you're not trans, you're just a silly man who needs to act more masculine, (or a silly woman who needs to act more feminine,) convince you that you're not trans. And likewise, don't let people telling you that you are trans and you need to transition, and transition is the only path to happiness, convince you to do things that you're not comfortable with. It goes both ways, and both ways can lead to severe bitterness and regret.

Quote from: Shantel on October 13, 2013, 01:35:16 PM
Yeah I know they come across as pretty uninformed and biased by their own ignorance, but you can also attribute it to the Muslim organizations eventually since they are taking over the world. Give the Christians a break! Any religious organization regardless of which kind or stripe usually bases their opinions on their own book of beliefs rather than on current intelligent sources and often times believe the skewed preacher that occasionally occupies the pulpet. I am a Christian as well as many others here and it gets real tiresome reading Christian bashing comments by those who supposedly decry every kind of hypocrisy and yet come off with their own brand of bias which is in turn just more hypocrisy. I don't buy into a lot of what those ignorant sensationalists that use and twist scripture to make their point have to say, most of it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ, just as beheading people and honor killing one's own daughters doesn't have anything to do with the faith of a true practicing Moslem. So lets not perpetuate ignorance here and consider the fact that not everyone's personal thoughts and beliefs come from the same cookie cutter mentality!

I don't think she was bashing Christians, she was bashing a specific select group of Christians that happened to show there colors on that article.  It was fairly generalized to the entire site but it was still just the select group, not Christians as a whole.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 13, 2013, 01:47:33 PM
Shan, I'm a Christian myself... I'm not bashing them. I'm just poking fun at the self-righteous Christian organizations that constantly act like the entire rest of the world is stupid and only they, the true crusaders for Chrsitlike justice, know the truth about all of these other heathen misguided people. They act like they're constantly unmasking the "truth" behind everything, hence the Scooby-Doo reference.

In all seriousness, though, I know that this article does have a legitimate point. Transition is NOT right for everyone. There are indeed people who have regrets, to the point that it destroys their lives. That is an important thing to recognize. Where it goes wrong, though, is where certain people use these regret stories to insinuate that ALL transgender people will have regrets, and are just deluding themselves. Or, for that matter, hearing stories where transition did work for someone else and therefore all people having similar thoughts should transition.

Ultimately, whenever I hear stories like this, from either side, I think of the following cartoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq0a5JTSGvU

Don't let people telling you that you're not trans, you're just a silly man who needs to act more masculine, (or a silly woman who needs to act more feminine,) convince you that you're not trans. And likewise, don't let people telling you that you're not normal, your feelings are because you're trans and you need to transition and transition is the only path to happiness, convince you to do things that you're not comfortable with. It goes both ways, and both ways can lead to severe bitterness and regret.

In the article its self it didn't seem like he was regretting his transition at all but rather he was ashamed of the malfunctioned SRS surgery he had gotten.  That mixed with him being disowned by his family leads me to believe he felt lonely and isolated, just exactly how he put it was "a monster."

This wasn't a regret suicide. I think it was a little more than that.

 :police:  Please remember there's a Spirituality section of the board if you're interested in religious debates, and to keep everything respectful since there's members here of various religions.

:) 

Transition is about other issues besides changing one's physical appearance. I don't know what other things Nathan was dealing with but it seems that they were there. Transition is not for everybody. I have no desire to transition but I fully support those who do. I also would like to see post-op counseling, something that's not always discussed.

Quote from: gennee on October 13, 2013, 06:09:17 PM
Transition is about other issues besides changing one's physical appearance. I don't know what other things Nathan was dealing with but it seems that they were there. Transition is not for everybody. I have no desire to transition but I fully support those who do. I also would like to see post-op counseling, something that's not always discussed.

Like I said, I think it's the fact that his SRS didn't go as he wanted.  I don't think it has to do with the fact that he transitioned, as his quotes seem to clearly imply.  He was just extremely upset by the outcome of his SRS and how he thought it would only isolate him more, now that he can't have a normal penis (surgery complications) or a normal vagina- he is in  a spot where he can't have a normal part.  That can only be inflated by the fact that he was literally isolated by his family, which is probably how he ultimately came to the conclusion of suicide.

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 13, 2013, 06:40:23 PM
Like I said, I think it's the fact that his SRS didn't go as he wanted.  I don't think it has to do with the fact that he transitioned, as his quotes seem to clearly imply.  He was just extremely upset by the outcome of his SRS and how he thought it would only isolate him more, now that he can't have a normal penis (surgery complications) or a normal vagina- he is in  a spot where he can't have a normal part.  That can only be inflated by the fact that he was literally isolated by his family, which is probably how he ultimately came to the conclusion of suicide.

You are absolutely right on target with your comment here and on top of that he was the offspring of the most cold hearted mother on the face of the earth. Her attitude toward her child was a travesty and no doubt a sword piercing his heart. I came away with the feeling that they were disappointed in not having had a son, he was trying to fill the bill. The whole story was extremely sick and something that made me feel deeply saddened for that poor child. Forgive me if I got pissed off at anyone here, the whole thing was very disturbing.

Quote from: Joules on October 13, 2013, 07:02:36 PM
I think it's important to make a distinction between suicide and euthanasia.  He was "put to sleep" by a medical doctor via the administration of an injection.  Suicide means death from self-inflicted harm.

Euthanasia is legal in Belgium, although it likely has gate-keeping involved as well.  It requires the permission of the courts, who apply a review process along the way.  I doubt if he would have had much success getting the courts' permission if he had explained his death wish as a feeling of deep anguish due to the lifelong rejection of his mother, while she favored his genetic male siblings.  It seems more likely to be grasped and believed by the courts if he said he was unhappy with the outcome of his surgery.  The truth may never be known.

Which is what I was saying was the primary cause- I merely said his mother's reaction toward him was an amplifier of said feelings

Quote from: Shantel on October 13, 2013, 07:12:41 PM
You are absolutely right on target with your comment here and on top of that he was the offspring of the most cold hearted mother on the face of the earth. Her attitude toward her child was a travesty and no doubt a sword piercing his heart. I came away with the feeling that they were disappointed in not having had a son, he was trying to fill the bill. The whole story was extremely sick and something that made me feel deeply saddened for that poor child. Forgive me if I got pissed off at anyone here, the whole thing was very disturbing.

It is, I can't believe she would treat her son that way.

Quote from: Nidalexi on October 13, 2013, 07:15:27 PM
Which is what I was saying was the primary cause- I merely said his mother's reaction toward him was an amplifier of said feelings

It is, I can't believe she would treat her son that way.

Or her daughter. Or any child, for that matter.  >:(

I think we can all agree about the "mom" in this case...I'd like to know what this "sex-change industry" is, in their view. (Since we know it doesn't exist).

I mean...there's a porn "industry"...a car-manufacturing "industry"...I don't know what a "sex-change industry" might be...