Susan's Place Transgender Resources

While i don't really see it happening here, granted i don't read every post, on other boards it seems to be a constant thing. People acting like everyone will get the exact same results from there transition. Yes i know there are averages, but as with every average those are just numbers that sometimes seem useless. My personal favorite is cup sizes. I don't know how many times i read a post saying "don't expect anything larger then a B cup" from your transition. Ok what about someone like me...i started my transition at almost a B cup because of my weight....yes im fat and im rather proud of it btw.

In the end when God made us he didn't hit control P and make us all the same so plz plz plz to those who are hinting, suggesting or flat out saying, that everyone's transition will be the same, plz stop.

Like i said already i really haven't seen it happen here, but im sure we have all read it on other boards, one especially whichwont be named.

Glad i got that off my chest.
Kari.

Quote from: kariann330 on October 16, 2013, 11:25:20 AM
While i don't really see it happening here, granted i don't read every post, on other boards it seems to be a constant thing. People acting like everyone will get the exact same results from there transition. Yes i know there are averages, but as with every average those are just numbers that sometimes seem useless. My personal favorite is cup sizes. I don't know how many times i read a post saying "don't expect anything larger then a B cup" from your transition. Ok what about someone like me...i started my transition at almost a B cup because of my weight....yes im fat and im rather proud of it btw.

In the end when God made us he didn't hit control P and make us all the same so plz plz plz to those who are hinting, suggesting or flat out saying, that everyone's transition will be the same, plz stop.

Like i said already i really haven't seen it happen here, but im sure we have all read it on other boards, one especially whichwont be named.

Glad i got that off my chest.
Kari.

Yeah... it's a crap shoot that has a little bit of genetics to back it up.
I don't see too many people thinking this... maybe wishing ;)

Lots of people don't understand cup size, though! The letter is not useful without the number!! a 32C and a 38C are COMPLETELY different things. (And I've got ZERO chance at the former.

Flat as a board is easy to fix. You buy your boobies and when you get home you take them off when you take off your bra :)

Now if I could just get rid of this %#@*&#^ tire on my waist. Because I'd rather be dreadfully flat and wearing a bikini with no boobs but inside bottoms that are simply so totally insanely not going to happen until this waist goes.

I want to dress up as Hatsune Miku so much eh. She's flat as hell. But she also has no fat on her.  I'd love to be able to wear her trademark outfit and be in a skirt that is the RIGHT length ie damn short and not what the girls normally wear. Damn right, I want to be able to bend over just the slightest bit and show you her trademark blue striped panties :)

But I am not wearing it looking this fat eh. Nope, not that desperate to make anime fans go YUCK!.

I want the HRT to turn off the monster, and if I end up with boobs that would be nice. But I can BUY boobs. Hey they don't need to be real that badly eh, it's not like I plan to go topless with the other girls.

Thank you KariAnn, that was something that needed to be said. All to often people assume I am in the same place they are and am dealing with the same stuff. Our situations are all different and the responsibility rests on all of us to respect that.

YES! I'm different from the standard narrative in a number of ways, and it's frustrating on a good day and depressing on a bad one when people insist that someone like me can't exist.

also, as far as factual errors go, the boob thing and the insistence that laser isn't permanent both drive me buggy. :) I have no idea where anyone even came up with that urban myth about one cup size smaller than your mother/B cup, but it's so ridiculously persistent and common!

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on October 16, 2013, 02:50:49 PM
I got 38A, and there is 0 chance of the former as well. Physically the best number I could get is either 36 or 37, so... :P But I would happy to get B cup :)

My "B" isn't real, though... it's just being overweight (well... on one side there's some and it's breast-like, but way too small to look like anything). I'm surprised the "moobs" haven't mostly disappeared on me at this point... I've lost 35 lbs and have 20 to go.

I'll be happy with anything real when they come in!!

Just don't lose it all from the boobs ;) lol
It's a lot of hard work, but for once in my life it has come off easy. All I had to do was come out transgender and the weight has melted off. It was my biggest coping mechanism.

Thats why I try the best to just tell my stories as stories about me and my experience. Others can try and see themselves in them or can just say that these are my stories not theirs. In the end everyone will have a story of themselves and it will be a different story, but maybe some elements of my story fit into that and are useful. At least that is what I hope for. Still I think it is useful to talk about average stuff. If they say "dont EXPECT anything bigger than B cup", I think there are two things to consider there - one is that this is about expectation. So dont expect it, because if it happens to be bigger it is something that is less common and maybe unexpected. More or less it says dont be dissapointed if it is that or less and be excited if it is more. If you "expect" a C cup, you most likely will be dissapointed and less likely will surpass that. The other thing is that I think this comment also is a crude estimate on how much INCREASE in breast development one can expect, so given you are zip at start, you get B at the end. If you are already A, you certainly would be more than B. I would not be too angry about such statements, just take generalized statements with a grain of salt always.

Everyone will turn out differently and blanket statements are usually false.  I agree with you there.  As you said, breast development differs person to person.

However, I do think it's okay to stifle certain expectations or misconceptions people may have about transition.  I know people that think your voice changes and your bone structure is altered.  Things like that need a reality dose even if it sucks that it is the reality (believe me, I suffer with accepting this).  Many of us, myself included, see hormones as the little magical pill that will solve it all.  Yeah it's great, but it can't do all.  So, it's okay to point out things that can't change or are unlikely to (depending on how it is said or addressed).   I know that's a different topic all together and you weren't addressing that in your post, but I wanted to throw that out there. 

The number *35 for example* is chest size/width and the letter *B for example* is cup size.I agree with the OP that all are different and should not have to follow a *standard*.Being different is beautiful in its self.I suggest ignoring such things and love yourself.Screw anyone who feels you need to be like them or carry an image.Yes growth is due to genetics,just like male parts,hair color and everything else.One might get larger but thats not important,what is-is knowing who you are and loving yourself *genetics and all* :)

Goodness, I don't post at other boards. How many of them are there? I can't even follow a fraction of whatever happens here.

My endo basically told me the same thing since before we even started. "We'll see what happens. If your boobs aren't big, going on 100X E isn't going to change it." I guess she been asked that before.

Physical transition will be mostly unpredictable, but something I think I can control is my weight. That means a lot of fasting and careful dieting and exercise. A girl's got to do what a girl's got to do.

I find it funny how many replies to the OP werer mainly about the breast size example and not the rest of it ;) - you are all boob addicts ;) (just making fun of it, don't take me serious)

Well I have a very cute pair of boobies

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.5036004921903040%26amp%3Bpid%3D15.1&hash=2d8568e6df00326da26a2f3ceb1e142615cf9e26)

With my 'insincere' apologies to Jenny07 who sent me the pic of a pair of boobies.

Heee Hee

Hi,

Well the best way of defusing a blanket statment of most people are the same is of cause do as iv done when ?s like this come up some 20 forums im on that covers dresser's & those who wish to be like or as women, is put your details up for all to see by doing that then you will see every one is different .

age comes into it that,  that  being the case the blanket statement will be seen for what it is , does not work. or was based on a misconception to start with, and i could bring a lot more to the table that is far more importaint than breast size .

weight 11 stone = 154 lb. height 5 9. waist  35 in. skirt size 16 .  hips 39 in. bust 41 in. or 16 d. real. shoe's 11 womens or mens 8.  shoulder across the top 18 in. or size 18 .no head of hair  body hair 8% if that.  body shape as of a female,

Now my weight has been the same for 46 years give or take about 5 lb. another difference is im an intersexed female. age 66.   plus my own hormones are not standered  as ether a male or female, so with those differences how many would be close to myself,  well those are the facts,

now some one said ones voice can not change.. okay your not this kid and yes my voice has changed with out meds or training or makeing my voice go into a change . sorry this kid is different, and yes we intersexed people do have body changes take place at different times with in our own body's with out  out side help .

again an assumtion made with out facts to back it up. my interesexed friend went through 3 different changes over her life ,  age same as myself, And for myself my body went through some changes long before i ever took any meds of any kind . our bodys are able to go through some  changes so dont discount us out right .   Thank you.

...noeleena...

Quote from: noeleena on October 17, 2013, 01:54:51 AM
Hi,

Well the best way of defusing a blanket statment of most people are the same is of cause do as iv done when ?s like this come up some 20 forums im on that covers dresser's & those who wish to be like or as women, is put your details up for all to see by doing that then you will see every one is different .

age comes into it that,  that  being the case the blanket statement will be seen for what it is , does not work. or was based on a misconception to start with, and i could bring a lot more to the table that is far more importaint than breast size .

weight 11 stone = 154 lb. height 5 9. waist  35 in. skirt size 16 .  hips 39 in. bust 41 in. or 16 d. real. shoe's 11 womens or mens 8.  shoulder across the top 18 in. or size 18 .no head of hair  body hair 8% if that.  body shape as of a female,

Now my weight has been the same for 46 years give or take about 5 lb. another difference is im an intersexed female. age 66.   plus my own hormones are not standered  as ether a male or female, so with those differences how many would be close to myself,  well those are the facts,

now some one said ones voice can not change.. okay your not this kid and yes my voice has changed with out meds or training or makeing my voice go into a change . sorry this kid is different, and yes we intersexed people do have body changes take place at different times with in our own body's with out  out side help .

again an assumtion made with out facts to back it up. my interesexed friend went through 3 different changes over her life ,  age same as myself, And for myself my body went through some changes long before i ever took any meds of any kind . our bodys are able to go through some  changes so dont discount us out right .   Thank you.

...noeleena...

I found this interesting as I was under the impression that there were physical things that testosterone does to influence the deepening of the voice, that same impression had me believe that this was not reversible, as once you grind away the wood around the hole, it's permanently grinded unless filled in with something in this case 'cosmetic' or corrective.

I know intersex people have a different set of internal body problems, but physical "reversal" I haven't heard of being one of them, if I'm not mistaken.

I think you may have just unlatched the upper parts of your pitch due to your risen comfort in your correct gender.

Correct me if I'm wrong! I like being wrong sometimes.

Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 01:12:44 AM
I find it funny how many replies to the OP werer mainly about the breast size example and not the rest of it ;) - you are all boob addicts ;) (just making fun of it, don't take me serious)

Boobs? Ahh...yes...they are MAGICAL!

Quote from: noeleena on October 17, 2013, 01:54:51 AM
Hi,
now some one said ones voice can not change.. okay your not this kid and yes my voice has changed with out meds or training or makeing my voice go into a change . sorry this kid is different, and yes we intersexed people do have body changes take place at different times with in our own body's with out  out side help .

I used to think voices can't change until I saw the CindiFLA youtubes! Whoa! And I guess yours changed without any training?

Quote from: Gina_Z on October 17, 2013, 03:22:26 AM
Boobs? Ahh...yes...they are MAGICAL!

I hear a fairy brings them...

Just a clarification on the voice thing.  It can change with training, but hormones traditionally don't reverse t effects.  Most people will need to train their voice and have never heard of hrt altering an mtfs voice in a meaningful way.  Still, I live to be educated, so please tell me if im off base.

Quote from: kariann330 on October 16, 2013, 11:25:20 AM
Ok what about someone like me...i started my transition at almost a B cup because of my weight....yes im fat and im rather proud of it btw.

I've noticed it over and over again....that 'fat', full figured MTF are passable because of their round faces, full cheeks,  soft features and curvy figures, which actually makes them look feminine.
Wearing your hair long also suits a round face perfectly.

Skinny, gaunt, hollow faces and figures make even born women look masculine, except for their overall sizes.

But when they wear their hair long....that makes them look downright scary because it emphasises their gaunt faces and sunken cheeks.

Full figured born women also look better than their (older) skinny counterparts.

You're not 'fat', you're full figured and it suits you!

Quote from: Dahlia on October 17, 2013, 05:48:23 AM
I've noticed it over and over again....that 'fat', full figured MTF are passable because of their round faces, full cheeks,  soft features and curvy figures, which actually makes them look feminine.
Wearing your hair long also suits a round face perfectly.

Skinny, gaunt, hollow faces and figures make even born women look masculine, except for their overall sizes.

But when they wear their hair long....that makes them look downright scary because it emphasises their gaunt faces and sunken cheeks.

Full figured born women also look better than their (older) skinny counterparts.

You're not 'fat', you're full figured and it suits you!

Being heavyset or overweight and being unhealthy are not the same thing! I've known plenty of high metabolism, skinny people who had terrible health habits! As long as someone's healthy, nobody has the right to talk about how they look (even if they ARE unhealthy, it's a delicate topic).

Some extra fat does make most people look better.

Quote from: kabit on October 17, 2013, 05:59:01 AM
Being heavyset or overweight and being unhealthy are not the same thing! I've known plenty of high metabolism, skinny people who had terrible health habits! As long as someone's healthy, nobody has the right to talk about how they look (even if they ARE unhealthy, it's a delicate topic).

Some extra fat does make most people look better.

Where did I write about health and being heavyset or skinny?

I wrote about esthetics only.

Quote from: Dahlia on October 17, 2013, 05:48:23 AM

Skinny, gaunt, hollow faces and figures make even born women look masculine, except for their overall sizes.

But when they wear their hair long....that makes them look downright scary because it emphasises their gaunt faces and sunken cheeks.

I can't agree with this. I'm tall and thin and have a thin face. Yet I am much more passable with long hair.

This makes the OP's point. What works for one won't necessarily work for another.

Quote from: Dahlia on October 17, 2013, 06:30:26 AM
Where did I write about health and being heavyset or skinny?

I wrote about esthetics only.

I'm sorry. I agree. I didn't think I said you had, I was just trying to expand on it. Being overweight (previously obese) and very unhealthy, myself, I get nervous when people say fat is ok. I suppose those with the opposite problem have the opposite hang-ups.

Sorry again... it's totally me. I know I had a problem and I'm not trying to assign that problem to anyone else!!!

Quote from: kabit on October 17, 2013, 06:56:03 AM
I'm sorry. I agree. I didn't think I said you had, I was just trying to expand on it. Being overweight (previously obese) and very unhealthy, myself, I get nervous when people say fat is ok. I suppose those with the opposite problem have the opposite hang-ups.

Sorry again... it's totally me. I know I had a problem and I'm not trying to assign that problem to anyone else!!!

Oh, think nothing of it, it's ok :-)

Quote from: learningtolive on October 17, 2013, 05:33:23 AM
Just a clarification on the voice thing.  It can change with training, but hormones traditionally don't reverse t effects.  Most people will need to train their voice and have never heard of hrt altering an mtfs voice in a meaningful way.  Still, I live to be educated, so please tell me if im off base.

Today the therapist had the guts of telling me again that my voice would change on HRT. Yeah, I told her that I have read every article and opinion on the net, and that has never happened (Maybe if you just started puberty it could be reverted a bit, but not with 30 years), and please, stop with it. It's not the first time she tells me that and I don't like false hopes. Specially when my throat is all sore from spending the night trying different intonations and resonances.

Quote from: Apple Sprout on October 17, 2013, 09:03:02 AM

I don't like false hopes.

This is mainly the reason i am very honest and blunt in my posts and sometimes come off as rude *though i dont mean to be rude but i dont hold anything back* i believe people deserve to be their self and with all honesty.Finding their strength and only that can be done through encouragement and real hope.Even about this exact topic.People should accept that everyone is different and everyone is beautiful in their own way and with that,should have people to help them along the way.

Few people I have ever met claimed that HRT changes voice - it does not significantly. I think it probably does some things to it, but it cannot change it seriously. I am now 15 years on HRT and while it takes some serious effort and is psychologically hard, I managed to get a little soundbit out that was probably rather close to my pre-everything voice. I wanted to analyze that and see what my pitch was back then. So that is still there and all the changes seem basically be due to habit and maybe muscle memory. Even though I dont sound definitely female even now, it still is far from the "original". But not due to HRT.

For me I think loosing weight makes me look more female again, as I will losse the excess fat on the jaw and neck which makes it look bigger.

Anyways - yes to give people false hopes does not really help, but of course to claim that there is no hope is wrong either. So I can say that despite everyone telling me that foot size cannot change with HRT, I am consistently 1 Eurosize under my pre-HRT sizes. I have no idea how as certainly bones did not change - more likely it is something about fat and muscles changing - IDK. So sometimes to deny all hope is not the best, but one should not overdo it - No one should for example expect to loose a full US size for shoes, thats just unrealistic. Same for any voice changes besides some more softness and maybe a few Hz increase in pitch due to thinning vocal cords (more likely it will influence your whole being and by that "unlock" frequencies to be used in regular speech that previoulsy may only have been used if singing)

Quote from: learningtolive on October 17, 2013, 05:33:23 AM
Just a clarification on the voice thing.  It can change with training, but hormones traditionally don't reverse t effects.  Most people will need to train their voice and have never heard of hrt altering an mtfs voice in a meaningful way.  Still, I live to be educated, so please tell me if im off base.

Yes, when I realized that was true years ago, I was disappointed, but then I listened to girls who have gone through voice training on the internet I came to the conclusion that it was a real solution. Yes it will require a lot more work than a magic pill, but it can work. It turns out that the major difference between men and women's voices is not all about pitch. It's something else. How your tone is produced, how pitch varies, etc.

Again, just to keep pounding this one: HRT HAS NO EFFECT ON THE LARYNX!!!

<RANT!>
STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION!!!

It's seriously damaging to people to give them false hope of an impossible change. There's enough BS in the trans community with "HRT regimen X has SO much better results than regimen Y!!!" or "Natural alternatives are so much better!" or the rest of the nonsense. I'm a nice person. Everyone who's read my posts knows that but I am sick and tired of all the magical thinking, and frankly dangerous fantasizing that goes on in some of these threads. Reality is reality, folks. We get what we get and sometimes, that's all we get.

Want a better voice? Work at for it. Want a better body? Get in shape. Want nice boobs and didn't get a great rack from HRT? There's augmentation for that, if you want. You can get the body and life that you want if you're willing to put in the time. If you don't, you're probably deluding yourself about what you have unless you're really lucky in every aspect. Most of us have one or two aspects about our physical transition that we don't hate.

To wit: I've got a nice voice... through thousands of hours of speaking and hundreds of hours on loopback listening. I have a pretty nice body. I eat well and work at it. I don't have huge boobs. I'll buy a set after I'm done with derby... maybe before, regardless, it's my choice to just do so.

If you want things, stop wishing for them and make it happen. There's no magic pill for ANYTHING transition related.
</RANT!>

To the OP: YMMV is the general story of development for any human, be it a preteen girl or a trans chick. Not everyone gets nice breasts and has a fabulous transitioning experience. Even if you do, it's not an easy ride so, don't worry about what other people tell you about what you're going through. Go through your transition and see above if your results aren't what you want.





Edited for profanity

Amen!.....I don't like to see you so angry. I wish you peace.

Quote from: Gina_Z on October 17, 2013, 02:37:09 PM
Amen!.....I don't like to see you so angry. I wish you peace.

Eh, I'll be okay but I really, really get tired of people putting forth their fantasy-laden bollox as factual accounts, even if we're talking about their own personal experience... actually, especially if we're talking about that. Trans peeps are masters at fooling themselves. I mean, really, it's part of how we keep the mask on for as long as we do but I'll be damned if I'm going to let crappy information and pseudo-realities keep messing with the heads of so many impressionable just-transitioning-women. We're like babies when we pop out and misinformation getting into our heads about what could and couldn't happen makes it way harder and lots more painful.

The science of this stuff is well understood at this point or, at least, it is when we're talking about transition related HRT effects. People clouding up the waters with baseless crap made it harder for me to know reality from wishful thinking a few years ago. I'm generally patient but I'm not corking it up anymore when people spout nonsense.

For those of you who find what I say offensive, tough. You want to tell me and a bunch of other people that 'this thing happened to me!'? Go to your doc, get them to write up their findings, get them peer reviewed, and then we'll talk. 'Till then, you're just so much non-verified fluff information that won't help anyone and likely will do harm.

Hey, I had a pet peeve that wasn't about boobs, too. :)

(I also actually dropped about a size and a half in shoes - which I know for sure b/c shoes I bought at the beginning of transition and wore only a couple times are now way too big.)

My voice definitely didn't change at all except through hard and persistent work, though.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 17, 2013, 02:51:15 PM
Eh, I'll be okay but I really, really get tired of people putting forth their fantasy-laden bollox as factual accounts, even if we're talking about their own personal experience... actually, especially if we're talking about that. Trans peeps are masters at fooling themselves. I mean, really, it's part of how we keep the mask on for as long as we do but I'll be damned if I'm going to let crappy information and pseudo-realities keep messing with the heads of so many impressionable just-transitioning-women. We're like babies when we pop out and misinformation getting into our heads about what could and couldn't happen makes it way harder and lots more painful.

The science of this stuff is well understood at this point or, at least, it is when we're talking about transition related HRT effects. People clouding up the waters with baseless crap made it harder for me to know reality from wishful thinking a few years ago. I'm generally patient but I'm not corking it up anymore when people spout nonsense.

For those of you who find what I say offensive, tough. You want to tell me and a bunch of other people that 'this thing happened to me!'? Go to your doc, get them to write up their findings, get them peer reviewed, and then we'll talk. 'Till then, you're just so much non-verified fluff information that won't help anyone and likely will do harm.

I'd also like to mention the cup size smaller, that is also misinformation.  There is 'some' evidence behind it in the sizes of fully transitioned women, but generally I think the REAL difference is in the band, not the cup size.  I'm kinda tired of seeing the "1 cup size smaller than your nearest relative" too.

All in all, there is nothing harsh about getting the truth out there.  Granted you took a very stern and scolding approach, but sometimes that's what needs to be done to let people know what they are doing.  Almost everyone assumes my new voice is a product of what HRT cause, that and my mother is worried about how "thin" my belly is (I've been doing workouts and mild yoga).  Everyone is so quick to assume HRT is doing things to their body, when reality is YOU are probably doing it self-consciously and you're just giving HRT unwarranted credit.  Thus, the string of lies appears and gets carried on by other people who unknowingly train themselves into other happens.  (I.E. More feminine walking habits, slightly heightening your pitch without noticing and maybe even healthier lifestyle choices)

Edit: I will also add, yoga and core/lower section oriented workouts make a HUGE difference. DO IT.  You won't regret it.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 17, 2013, 02:14:54 PM
Again, just to keep pounding this one: HRT HAS NO EFFECT ON THE LARYNX!!!

<RANT!>
STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION!!!

It's seriously damaging to people to give them false hope of an impossible change. There's enough BS in the trans community with "HRT regimen X has SO much better results than regimen Y!!!" or "Natural alternatives are so much better!" or the rest of the nonsense. I'm a nice person. Everyone who's read my posts knows that but I am sick and tired of all the magical thinking, and frankly dangerous fantasizing that goes on in some of these threads. Reality is reality, folks. We get what we get and sometimes, that's all we get.

Want a better voice? Work at for it. Want a better body? Get in shape. Want nice boobs and didn't get a great rack from HRT? There's augmentation for that, if you want. You can get the body and life that you want if you're willing to put in the time. If you don't, you're probably deluding yourself about what you have unless you're really lucky in every aspect. Most of us have one or two aspects about our physical transition that we don't hate.

To wit: I've got a nice voice... through thousands of hours of speaking and hundreds of hours on loopback listening. I have a pretty nice body. I eat well and work at it. I don't have huge boobs. I'll buy a set after I'm done with derby... maybe before, regardless, it's my choice to just do so.

If you want things, stop wishing for them and make it happen. There's no magic pill for ANYTHING transition related.
</RANT!>

To the OP: YMMV is the general story of development for any human, be it a preteen girl or a trans chick. Not everyone gets nice breasts and has a fabulous transitioning experience. Even if you do, it's not an easy ride so, don't worry about what other people tell you about what you're going through. Go through your transition and see above if your results aren't what you want.





Edited for profanity

Hrt can do some things and results will vary, but it's unlikely or not possible to impact certain things (like voice).  Still, it's important to realize that hormones can do some great things as well.  Maybe it isn't magic, but they are an important aspect of our transition.  There is a reason we take them to further our transition.  I've seen much progress from these pills and it came purely from that alone.  As long as we are realistic about what can or can't happen, then there is no harm done. Realistic optimism for things that can happen isn't a bad thing.   Just, as you said, be realistic about it.

Lastly, it's okay for people to feel upset about the things they can't change.  While some may see that as counter productive, I see that as human.  And many are welcome to share their such feelings on a support site to vent.  I've done it before and it's helped me reach some self realization or at least get out my grief.   The tone of your post seemed to suggest that it isn't welcome and seemed to lack empathy.  I'll just say that sometimes you have to go through the dark before you get to the light.  Try to understand some are still not in the same stage of transition as you.  Some lack knowledge on what can or can't happen.  Some have realistic concerns and fears about everything ahead of them.   It's okay for them to focus on those thoughts because it can lead to self growth and further development.  Also, asking newbie transitioning questions like "will my voice change"  is essential because there was a time that none of us knew the answer to that question. 

Quote from: learningtolive on October 17, 2013, 10:03:40 PM
Hrt can do some things and results will vary, but it's unlikely or not possible to impact certain things (like voice).  Still, it's important to realize that hormones can do some great things as well.  Maybe it isn't magic, but they are an important aspect of our transition.  There is a reason we take them to further our transition.  I've seen much progress from these pills and it came purely from that alone.  As long as we are realistic about what can or can't happen, then there is no harm done. Realistic optimism for things that can happen isn't a bad thing.   Just, as you said, be realistic about it.

Lastly, it's okay for people to feel upset about the things they can't change.  While some may see that as counter productive, I see that as human.  And many are welcome to share their such feelings on a support site to vent.  I've done it before and it's helped me reach some self realization or at least get out my grief.   The tone of your post seemed to suggest that it isn't welcome and seemed to lack empathy.  I'll just say that sometimes you have to go through the dark before you get to the light.  Try to understand some are still not in the same stage of transition as you.  Some lack knowledge on what can or can't happen.  Some have realistic concerns and fears about everything ahead of them.   It's okay for them to focus on those thoughts because it can lead to self growth and further development.  Also, asking newbie transitioning questions like "will my voice change"  is essential because there was a time that none of us knew the answer to that question.

Based on your judgment of the conclusion of her post, I think you misunderstood what she was referring to.  She's not tired of people wishing for things or having high hopes.  She's tired of people claiming things that just simply aren't true.  Which, is also human as has been said.  It's not uncommon for people to see things as more than they really are, I've done it.  "MY SKIN IS GETTING SOFTER!" On the first week.  Did anyone else see much of a difference? No.  But it seemed drastic for me, and thus I thought magic was happening. . - Voila a candidate for false impressions.

She's upset about people saying "it can change your voice!"  Intersex or not, I find that to be untrue.  The voice box is generally fixed, it can get higher, but through practice.  It is fixed at the deepness you get through HRT.  What she is tired of is the people saying HRT magically changed their voice, when reality says it is certainly, from what I understand, not true.

Quote from: Lexi Belle on October 17, 2013, 10:56:41 PM
Based on your judgment of the conclusion of her post, I think you misunderstood what she was referring to.  She's not tired of people wishing for things or having high hopes.  She's tired of people claiming things that just simply aren't true.

Yup. Pretty much that. I know that a lot of peeps want things to change and, so, they project those changes onto their experiential reality but, unless it's 100% proven, I'm really quite tired of seeing things like that on here. As has been said, a great number of girls on this site are brand spanking new to this. The last thing they need is someone who's been on HRT for three months telling them about all the things they *think* are happening but aren't actually happening at all.

Quote from: learningtolive on October 17, 2013, 10:03:40 PM
Hrt can do some things and results will vary, but it's unlikely or not possible to impact certain things (like voice).  Still, it's important to realize that hormones can do some great things as well.

Of course it can. Softer skin, decreased muscle mass, boobs, pheromonal changes, hair thickness, psychological changes by way of decreased exposure to T, removal of the reflex to look at other women's breasts, etc etc etc. So many things that are, if not crucial, than at least very important to our ability to ease into our new perspective. I never said that it can't.

My tone was simply angry, very, very angry, at people who spread misinformation via their own projected false observations. It can't make you shorter. It can't change hand size. It can't freaking change your voice. Some things, like the voice, it can't do but we can. Some things are just not possible. The lack of responsibility that people have when they dole out claims of these impossible changes is appalling. There are so many confused women on here who don't know what to look for and making claims that will get their expectations out of step with reality has serious and VERY DEADLY potential consequences. Saying things that are patently untrue is not just a 'human nature' thing outside of a 'look at me and my special experience' thing. Yeah, I was and am scolding about those instances and I will continue to be so.

Transition is work. It's a hell of a lot of work. Work on voice. Work on mannerisms. Work on communication. Work on family relations. Work all over the damned place. The older you are when you start, the more work it is. I want women to know that, yes, this is a valid experience, yes HRT will make some changes that will make you more comfortable, yes some of them will be awesome, but it won't magically make everything better nor will it change things that it can't. I'd like the expectations of new girls to match the reality of the situation.

If something is unknown (cup size) then it's unknown. If it's impossible, it's impossible. If it's possible but will take some work, then that's the case. If you're going to need to go under the knife to make a certain change happen, then you will. None of this is secret information anymore. There's articles, studies, and hundreds and thousands of women who have already been here and done that. Part of that is why I came back to this forum after becoming fully and completely comfortable with who I am and what my experience was. Another part is to debunk crap information like this because a lot of what people said earlier in my transition was bollox and made me very confused and frustrated with results that didn't happen.

On a personal note, I realized yesterday that I'd missed two doses of E back to back and my daily of Spiro so I was feeling very, very irritable. I used severely harsh language and got called out (edited, and warned) regarding it. I apologize for that and I do apologize for my tone but I'm serious about being passionate about putting a stop to nonsense misinformation being spread around like a bad case of the clap. People can get hurt by this kind of thing. Let's do our best to put a stop to it before someone else does.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 18, 2013, 09:59:31 AM

at people who spread misinformation via their own projected false observations. It can't make you shorter. It can't change hand size. It can't freaking change your voice. Some things, like the voice, it can't do but we can. Some things are just not possible. The lack of responsibility that people have when they dole out claims of these impossible changes is appalling. There are so many confused women on here who don't know what to look for and making claims that will get their expectations out of step with reality has serious and VERY DEADLY potential consequences. Saying things that are patently untrue is not just a 'human nature' thing outside of a 'look at me and my special experience' thing.

. Another part is to debunk crap information like this because a lot of what people said earlier in my transition was bollox and made me very confused and frustrated with results that didn't happen.

I'm serious about being passionate about putting a stop to nonsense misinformation being spread around like a bad case of the clap. People can get hurt by this kind of thing. Let's do our best to put a stop to it before someone else does.

+1, I fully agree!

And even in this thread the 'hormone induced miracle' of 'magically shrinking feet'  pops up again......

Here's an interesting article about growing older and mentions the  growing of the human feet over the years. Just as I wrote several times before.

QuoteUnlike bones and muscle, our ears, nose and feet continue to grow as we get older.
The ears are made up of cartilage, a flexible connective tissue which, unlike bones, continues to grow until we die.
Cartilage also becomes thinner with age, causing the skin to stretch and sag, so the ears stretch down and the tip of the nose lengthens and droops.
Meanwhile, our feet become longer and wider with age, as the tendons and ligaments that link the many tiny bones lose elasticity.


This allows the toes to spread out and the arch of the foot to flatten. Some over-40s can gain as much as one shoe size every ten years.

And no amount of estrogen will prevent your feet from growing/spreading out/getting longer, let alone make them shrink in size.
Not even when administered at a young age and no, puberty blockers won't keep a MTF short with small feet.
On the contrary: MTF on puberty blockers grow unusually tall with a matching shoesize....that doesn't shrink when they start using estrogen and no, they won't shrink in  height either....until they grow (very) old...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2451694/Lifetime-blink-eye-ageing-captured-incredible-gifs.html

Not entirely true. The shrinking of the muscle mass in the feet may reduce shoe size a little at first. Definitely possible to reduce width this way. That said, if you've got very lean feet to start with, no, there will likely be no change.

Dahlia - I was describing my experiences there and you can believe it or not. I had rather wide and muscular feet that would fit into a 42 only, about 2 years or so into transition I found that I could buy 41s and they would fit a lot better than 42s. I was told by everyone that its impossible but if I buy 42s now, I get blisters from them being too lose. Sorry if the is scientifically impossible, i am animpossible girl then. That said I think it has to be noted that the change is minimal. Its not like one US size. And it is most likely basically from loosing muscle mass on the feet as victoria described. It is more of a shape change than a size change, so my feet did not shrink! Also it depends highly on the manufacturer. Before I could usually wear 42s and very rarely 41s, now I can usually get the 41s, rarely the 40s and very rarely I will still need 42s. For me that is a big deal though as you can get almost all shoes in size 40, most of them at 41 and only few in 42 which is about the max in regular womens show stores. So for me thats fine and that is my experience and no, I dont press my overly large feet into shoes that are too small like some MtFs do because they would like something like this to happen. My feet are all well :).

If the pelvis can tilt due to a tightenin of tendons induced by HRT, then it stands perfectly to reason that it is, at least possible, for feet that continue to grow throughout our lives, due to loosening of tendons and ligaments, to retract to a smaller size as they tighten due to the effects of hormones.

I wouldn't be too quick to rule it out as impossible, even if it isn't experienced by everybody, or even very commonly.

Saz x

I'm sure glad I was born with small feet, size 9 1/2 womens, easy to find.

Numerous other problems however I guess I should be glad for this. I love high heel shoes, not real high however 3-4 inches feel very normal. I'm only 5' 9".

Please have a great day girl friends, going shopping today, again.

Francis

Quote from: FrancisAnn on October 19, 2013, 09:51:58 AM
I'm sure glad I was born with small feet, size 9 1/2 womens, easy to find.

Numerous other problems however I guess I should be glad for this. I love high heel shoes, not real high however 3-4 inches feel very normal. I'm only 5' 9".

Please have a great day girl friends, going shopping today, again.

Francis

I uh, feel like this is wrong.  I just measured my foot.  I guess I'm size 7 in women's.... but I'm 5 11.  (Haven't bought/tried on women's shoes yet)