Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I want to start my transition asap but i haven't started seeing a therapist yet, I'm just anxiously wondering how much an effect hormones and estrogen can have on a human male body. Here's my status: 6ft tall, 23 years old, and again not on anything yet.

I do know hormones and estrogen unfortunately will NOT change bones, voice, male genes or pelvis! Damn!

As much as I've always wanted breasts, i absolutely REFUSE breast implants! Call me crazy but I refuse to have silicone or saline stuffed in my body. I want all natural 32ddd boobs & shrink down to 5 foot 3... & have my male pelvis removed for it to get replaced by female pelvis. As for my voice I'm just gonna have to spend all the 2 years it'll take and try the falsetto thing.

Suggestions? Thoughts?

Thanks

Like you said, hormones don't have any effect on bone structure. So no, they won't make you go from 6 feet  to 5'3", nor will they change your ribcage, so if your aren't the right size to ever have 32ddds, you won't be able to have them.
A therapist is probably a good start though.

Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on October 17, 2013, 07:31:46 PM
I want to start my transition asap but i haven't started seeing a therapist yet, I'm just anxiously wondering how much an effect hormones and estrogen can have on a human male body. Here's my status: 6ft tall, 23 years old, and again not on anything yet.

I do know hormones and estrogen unfortunately will NOT change bones, voice, male genes or pelvis! Damn!

As much as I've always wanted breasts, i absolutely REFUSE breast implants! Call me crazy but I refuse to have silicone or saline stuffed in my body. I want all natural 32ddd boobs & shrink down to 5 foot 3... & have my male pelvis removed for it to get replaced by female pelvis. As for my voice I'm just gonna have to spend all the 2 years it'll take and try the falsetto thing.

Suggestions? Thoughts?

Thanks

I really really really don't want to burst your bubble but in reality you aren't going to shrink down height wise all that much. I haven't done HRT myself yet but the "norm" that I read about is that maybe an inch or two can be lost when taking hormones. I'm in the same boat, i'm 5'11" almost 30 and can fit into a size 14 fitted dress and wear a size 11 women's shoe all pre HRT, I'm an amazon by all technical terms. But if I do shrink down an inch or so and lose some of my width that would just be freaking awesome.

Taking hormones is a crap shoot, some people respond really well and others don't. You won't know how well you'll develop until after a good year of taking them.

I've never heard of a pelvis transplant. I honestly don't think it would even be scientifically possible. We basically got what we got and the hormones will help feminize what we got.

The voice however can be worked on through surgery, check out the voice therapy forum for information about yeson.

I'm 6'3" and on hormones a total of almost 30 months if you count my first attempt at this. Sorry, but the only way you're going to get any shorter is to develop a hunchback or cut your feet off. Or wait until your in your 70s because that seems to be when people start shrinking.

Breast development is a real crap shoot lucky dip. In reality, many cis women never get the size bust they'd prefer and unfortunately trans women are no different if not less so due to hyper inflated hopes and expectations. My first time at age 24, after 26 months I think I would have been amazed if I could have called myself AA, probably was AAAA! This time after only 4 months (& much older) I'd say I'm already at A with prospects for more growth. The bottom line is you won't know until you know.

Depending on how your body fat redistributes on HRT you still might find yourself with curvier hips, it won't be due to bone growth though. I'd suggest doing exercise to reduce the size of your stomach, waist as that will help improve the visual effect. The trick is to lose the weight off your waist not your hips!

Puberty in cis girls takes 4-6 years and it's not too different for trans women, effects generally happen gradually and cumulatively... sad to say there are no overnight transformations.

Good luck though...approach this with patience and realistic expectations and your transition will be a more positive experience.  :)

Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on October 17, 2013, 07:31:46 PM
I want all natural 32ddd boobs & shrink down to 5 foot 3... & have my male pelvis removed for it to get replaced by female pelvis.

Not going to happen. Hate to burst your bubble, but if you're 6 feet tall, you're stuck that way. The most that HRT will reduce your height by is maybe 1 or 2 inches. And the odds of a trans-girl getting DDD breasts, especially starting HRT at age 23, is pretty much 1 in a million. Even getting to a C or a D cup would be quite lucky. The vast majority of trans women don't make it higher than a B.

I have been on a "relatively" full strength HRT regimen for about 10 days now. Before that I was on a low dose HRT regimen for about 4 years.

The low dose HRT gave me a/b cup boobs and an androgynous face. I've lost about 1/2 inch in height, and my feet and maybe my hands have shrunk just a little bit too. The higher dose seems to have kicked things into gear and I expect more rapid changes now.

The one very strange & alarming thing to me is that I'm now dropping weight like crazy - In just the 10 days i've lost 7 lbs without exercising. Before that I lost 10lbs in two months of exercising, so I'm down 17lbs to 163lbs (at 5'8" in height) - Whoops! 165-170lbs is my target weight range. It's pizza/cheeseburger/chili time for me.

5'3" and all natural ddd's? You can get the ddd's with a BA, but the 5'3" from 6' is not going to happen. And there is nothing wrong with height for a girl; I have several very statuesque trans friends that are well over 6' tall with heels and they look fabulous.

It is a nearly universal experience of womanhood to be dissatisfied with your breasts.

If you are going to experience being a woman, those feelings go with it.

Enjoy them. They are authentic and female.

Well I'm not gonna agree or disagree with what you guys are saying about getting to 5 ft 3 from 6, having a female pelvis, all natural ddds and whatever else, but i will say that barriers aare designed to be broken.

There are blind people who regained their sight, people who recovered from "incurable" diseases, and even cismen who contacted breast cancer, a diseased believed to be limited to women. If those miracles can happen with a human body then so can me bring 5'3, a female pelvis and large natural boobs.

I just wanted to see if I've already bee n beaten to the punch. :p

Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on October 18, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
Well I'm not gonna agree or disagree with what you guys are saying about getting to 5 ft 3 from 6, having a female pelvis, all natural ddds and whatever else, but i will say that barriers aare designed to be broken.

There are blind people who regained their sight, people who recovered from "incurable" diseases, and even cismen who contacted breast cancer, a diseased believed to be limited to women. If those miracles can happen with a human body then so can me bring 5'3, a female pelvis and large natural boobs.

I just wanted to see if I've already bee n beaten to the punch. :p

Lol I guess you could get down to 5'3" if you had your legs amputated. But I think the pelvis thing is kinda impossible sorry. And as for the breast why on earth would you want triple D's?  :o

Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on October 18, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
Well I'm not gonna agree or disagree with whiat you guys are saying about getting to 5 ft 3 from 6, having a female pelvis, all natural ddds and whatever else, but i will say that barriers aare designed to be broken.

There are blind people who regained their sight, people who recovered from "incurable" diseases, and even cismen who contacted breast cancer, a diseased believed to be limited to women. If those miracles can happen with a human body then so can me bring 5'3, a female pelvis and large natural boobs.

I just wanted to see if I've already bee n beaten to the punch. :p

I really hope that you are seeing a therapist very soon. You have some very serious reality issues that need to be dealt with. Hormones and science can't do what you are expecting. I'm sorry but it can't. You can't remove 9 inches of height from your frame through any surgery.

I'm sorry about my first post it was not very helpful. But I wanted to say we all have are strengths and weaknesses in transitioning your going to have to accept the parts that you don't like if you ever want to be happy. I think we all wish we could be the ideal woman but I'm sure most women want that too. Your going to have to taper your expectations or it will drive you mad and make your transition far more difficult than it has too be.  :)

Hrm... I suppose the height reduction *could* happen, if a person were willing to have their leg bones shortened and screwed back together (the way they do for horrible breaks in accidents), but I can't imagine any reputable doctor doing such a thing... plus, the resulting legs would likely be unnaturally short in proportion to the torso; kind of a medically-induced dwarfism.  I really don't think the spine could be shortened proportionately.  Oh, and of course the arms would have to be shortened similarly.  I'm afraid the results of all that (if one had enough money to "convince" a doctor to even consider such a venture) would be pretty hideous, and certainly not aesthetically pleasing.  So, note to anyone pioneering such a venture: Being the first for any medical procedure is often fraught with disappointing results.

Large natural breasts:  From what I've seen, breasts are a dice roll for anyone, CIS or not.  It's within the realm of possibility.

Pelvis removal would probably not work at all, too many nerves and things, too much chance of total paralysis in the lower body.  Anyone attempting that would likely be a paraplegic.  At best.  I *have* heard/read rumors of experimental procedures to modify the existing pelvis, though.

All that above is here to get the OP's attention and underscore this very important point:

Quote from: Joules on October 18, 2013, 01:31:30 PM
I've heard the number 1 cause of unsuccessful transitions is unrealistic expectations.  If you want to succeed in transition and in life methinks ye should lower your sights a bit.

Please, *please* work with a therapist to understand why you want to be a woman.  I've known more than one very unhappy individual who transitioned to make themselves happy, to be desirable, because they didn't feel desired/desirable in their current gender and they thought transitioning to female would fix that.  They were ultimately unhappy in their new role for many years until they worked out some underlying issues.  Their dysporia was better, but they had a lot of work to do to achieve happiness.

It took me getting to the point where I understood that it would likely make me *less* desirable to a majority of people (transphobia, etc) and that I needed to do it, even if it meant I would never have a partner, because I *had* to live as a woman at any cost.  Even an unattractive, oddly tall woman.

Which is not to say that trans women are unattractive; merely that I needed to get to the point where I understood that being attractive was not my motivation for transition, if that makes any sense at all.  I anticipate being a striking woman; I'm uncertain how much hormones can do for me.  Perhaps I'll never pass well enough to go "stealth", but I know that I can participate more fully in life by discarding my male "shell".


*hug*  There's a long road ahead of you, Annaiyah... I know a lot of the posts in response to your thread probably are discouraging to you... but please know that most everyone here has been where you are and is more than happy to help you on your journey.

*hug*

Quote from: Heather on October 18, 2013, 01:15:44 PM
I'm sorry about my first post it was not very helpful. But I wanted to say we all have are strengths and weaknesses in transitioning your going to have to accept the parts that you don't like if you ever want to be happy. I think we all wish we could be the ideal woman but I'm sure most women want that too. Your going to have to taper your expectations or it will drive you mad and make your transition far more difficult than it has too be.  :)

I will be blunt but no, your first message wasn't too helpful to me at all. If there's anything you should know about me it's that i strive for the best of everything i dream and accept nothing less than the best. I mean, sure I'll take what i can get if i have no other choice, but i'll be damned if i settle for less than my dreams just because a few naysayers tell me it can't be done or look at me like I'm a crazy person.

As for the question you asked me about the breasts, i giggled a little, but to answer the question, well ... why the hell not? I rather have ddds than to be flat chested and, well i want breasts like i have since my childhood.

And to whoever said they hope I'm seeing a therapist about all this, i wish i was but no! I am NOT seeing a gender therapist yet! I hate to sound rude but i believed I've made that perfectly clear in the OP.

I really do appreciate you guys' replies but just so y'all know because this is my dream and i want it so badly, i might as well go for it because what's the point of having dreams that are not going to happen?

The successful people who accomplish any of the big things in life don't do it listening to people telling them it can't be done -- exactly the opposite actually, by ignoring those people.

I'm brave enough to bet money people used to tell President Obama he would never be... well... president, let alone for a second term and look what happened.

It's not that I'm mad or anything but all I'm doing as i read the "5'3 and female hips are not possible" replies, really, is just cocking my head an inch to the side with a slightly-raised brow and muttering, "okay" like it's nothing, taking all those comments with less than a grain of salt and going on about my life.

So go ahead! Go on about how much i need to see a therapist, look at me like I'm insane, laugh at me even, but like i said in the second message, barriers are meant to be broken and if no other transgirl is going to break them, i will if i die trying. And even as i strive for the "impossible", i would VERY much rather reach for it and fail to at least rest comfortably saying, "Welp, at least i tried!" than to listen to my naysayers, not go for it at all BECAUSE of what they tell me, not get it, learn that it could've been done, and then live the rest of my life using myself for not striving for my soul desires just because a few people tell me i can't have it.

Maybe... just maybe, this is the same thing God/Goddess/Universe or whoever higher being up there made me was thinking when It (i don't give God a gender) decided i should be born male with a female brain instead of female, and in that case I owe myself and God that very least and reach for it.

You seem to be reading rather a lot more confrontation than what is there.  It may be worthwhile to note that only one commenter suggesting therapy actually expressed the hope that you are currently seeing a therapist, the rest strongly recommend you *do* see one.

And the reason is that gender dysmorphia is *deadly*.  There are few on this board who haven't lost someone they know because their body simply would not transform to their liking.  I think I speak for all of us when I say that losing even one more is far, far too many.

I hope that, if you cannot understand now you will grow to understand the comments on this thread are made out of genuine concern for you.

*hug*

In fairness, Robin, there have been posts removed from this thread you may not have seen. It's a good reminder to everyone to keep your posts polite, keep your posts supportive. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 18, 2013, 06:53:50 PM
In fairness, Robin, there have been posts removed from this thread you may not have seen. It's a good reminder to everyone to keep your posts polite, keep your posts supportive. Hugs, Devlyn

Oh dear... I'm sorry, I did not realize.  I hope I didn't put my foot in it too badly, Annaiyah.  :/

Annaiyah, you actually can have a female sounding voice, and that's without a 'falsetto thing'. Look up CandiFLA on youtube. Also, you might be happy with feminine breasts that are relatively small. That's possible too. Everything, in moderation, can work for you and a lot of other MTF's. It's OK to aim high, but we can hurt ourselves if we demand a pre-formed idea of what we should be physically. Lots of women are happy, even though they may have big hands. Smooth and soft skin can do wonders. A positive female mind can help you do what a girl has to do, to be happy. Life is a state of mind. HUGS to you.

Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on October 18, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
Well I'm not gonna agree or disagree with what you guys are saying about getting to 5 ft 3 from 6, having a female pelvis, all natural ddds and whatever else, but i will say that barriers aare designed to be broken.

There are blind people who regained their sight, people who recovered from "incurable" diseases, and even cismen who contacted breast cancer, a diseased believed to be limited to women. If those miracles can happen with a human body then so can me bring 5'3, a female pelvis and large natural boobs.

I just wanted to see if I've already bee n beaten to the punch. :p

Breast cancer is not a disease believed to be limited to women. Like you said, men can get it too. There is nothing miraculous there. But hormones will not change your height from 6'00" to 5'3" and give you DDDs. You're comparing things that are possible but unlikely, to things that are physically impossible with hormone therapy.

There's nothing wrong with having dreams. The problem occurs when you have highly unrealistic dreams and expect them to come true. Ask any plastic surgeon and they will tell you what they can and can't do. You can get hip implants and breast augmentation. Ground breaking things can happen all I can say is good luck and I hope things turn out well for you.

Hey like I said to you before it got deleted: Good luck with your dreams!

Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on October 18, 2013, 06:08:26 PM
I will be blunt but no, your first message wasn't too helpful to me at all. If there's anything you should know about me it's that i strive for the best of everything i dream and accept nothing less than the best. I mean, sure I'll take what i can get if i have no other choice, but i'll be damned if i settle for less than my dreams just because a few naysayers tell me it can't be done or look at me like I'm a crazy person.

As for the question you asked me about the breasts, i giggled a little, but to answer the question, well ... why the hell not? I rather have ddds than to be flat chested and, well i want breasts like i have since my childhood.

And to whoever said they hope I'm seeing a therapist about all this, i wish i was but no! I am NOT seeing a gender therapist yet! I hate to sound rude but i believed I've made that perfectly clear in the OP.

I really do appreciate you guys' replies but just so y'all know because this is my dream and i want it so badly, i might as well go for it because what's the point of having dreams that are not going to happen?

The successful people who accomplish any of the big things in life don't do it listening to people telling them it can't be done -- exactly the opposite actually, by ignoring those people.

I'm brave enough to bet money people used to tell President Obama he would never be... well... president, let alone for a second term and look what happened.

It's not that I'm mad or anything but all I'm doing as i read the "5'3 and female hips are not possible" replies, really, is just cocking my head an inch to the side with a slightly-raised brow and muttering, "okay" like it's nothing, taking all those comments with less than a grain of salt and going on about my life.

So go ahead! Go on about how much i need to see a therapist, look at me like I'm insane, laugh at me even, but like i said in the second message, barriers are meant to be broken and if no other transgirl is going to break them, i will if i die trying. And even as i strive for the "impossible", i would VERY much rather reach for it and fail to at least rest comfortably saying, "Welp, at least i tried!" than to listen to my naysayers, not go for it at all BECAUSE of what they tell me, not get it, learn that it could've been done, and then live the rest of my life using myself for not striving for my soul desires just because a few people tell me i can't have it.

Maybe... just maybe, this is the same thing God/Goddess/Universe or whoever higher being up there made me was thinking when It (i don't give God a gender) decided i should be born male with a female brain instead of female, and in that case I owe myself and God that very least and reach for it.

I can understand wanting to be the best but something's can't be done. I don't really understand why if you want to be the best would you want to be 5'3"? Most genetic women I know that height want to be taller. There is plenty of 6'0" tall women in the world and you should be proud to count yourself amongst them.
What I'm afraid of is how hard are you going to take it if you realize it can't be done? Transitioning isn't about becoming the perfect woman, it's about becoming yourself including all the things you don't like about yourself. Trust me the road to perfection is paved with broken dreams just focus on working with what you have, and be the perfect you. ;)

Dreaming can be nice and it does help with broadening Your perspective, but my experience - and a bit of universal knowledge too - tells me that dreams take a very hard beating when they meet the laws of physics and human biology. Sorry to sound as a naysayer, but well, to those who claim that everything can be accomplished, how about starting with licking Your elbow first? ;)

Well, if it helps, I "lost" about in inch in apparent height (in quotation marks because the reality is that now I stand differently, and it's only if I stretch painfully hard that I can register as my original height), about a size and a half in shoes, and gained four pants sizes from hips/butt expanding by fat deposits alone. I'm also a 42DDD. (It's worth noting that if you do have the 32 rib cage, a 32DDD is the same cup volume as 34DD and 36D and 38C and 40B and 42A, so it's not necessarily all that improbable. And yes, that means my size would translate to ... 32K? Is there such a thing? Anyway.)

Even if bone structure doesn't change, in other words, it's AMAZING how much soft tissue changes can accomplish in terms of altering how your body actually looks to yourself and other people. For one thing, looking delicately built and fragile and female - which a 32 band size would suggest - will make people mis-guess your height. I have a cis female friend who's 6' and 130 lbs and shorter people routinely think she's more like 5'8" because she's so tiny.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on October 19, 2013, 09:56:11 AM
Well, if it helps, I "lost" about in inch in apparent height (in quotation marks because the reality is that now I stand differently, and it's only if I stretch painfully hard that I can register as my original height), about a size and a half in shoes, and gained four pants sizes from hips/butt expanding by fat deposits alone. I'm also a 42DDD. (It's worth noting that if you do have the 32 rib cage, a 32DDD is the same cup volume as 34DD and 36D and 38C and 40B and 42A, so it's not necessarily all that improbable. And yes, that means my size would translate to ... 32K? Is there such a thing? Anyway.)

I'm not sure that's how cup sizes work. Isn't it if the difference between your rib measurements and chest measurements differ by x inches that you determine your letter size? So if chest - ribs = 1 inch, you're an A,  chest - ribs = 2 inches, you're a B, etc. So with a 42 inch rib measurement, your chest measurement would have to be 48 inches to be a a DDD.

Thylacin : I figure since a 42DDD bra fits me, it's the right size. :)  And I do generally find that if I try on a 44DD or a 40G [when I can find one!] the cup size is generally the same; only the band size and fit changes. Also, expert bra fitters say that knowing the "sister sizes" like this is helpful, because those measurement-based calculations will usually only give a starting point at best. http://www.herroom.com/bra-fitting-advice,328,30.html Not to mention that in underwire bras the "sister sizes" will usually use the same size and shape wire in the cup, which means the enforced shape of the cup will be nearly identical across the cup sizes (until the band is too small or large to manage it, I'd assume, but I don't know that offhand).

(My wife was professionally fitted as a 36J, for example, but because her breasts are pretty saggy at this point - the chest to breast differential is about 3 inches. Clearly, however, that is spectacularly unhelpful when she could fill THREE times a 36C cup volume easily. And that took the fitter about an hour to do, so I totally believe that the measurements give a general hint but aren't guaranteed. That same fitter said that in the expensive manufacturers the cup sizes run smaller relative to department store bras, so I was only a 38DD now in Wacoal.)

Thanks! :)

Dear OP, everyone has just been trying to give you solid imput on what hrt does, doll. Pretty much you can, and i stress can, have all the goodies you wish for except height. Surgery. However, a natal bone structure stays a natal bone structure. Its too late in life to shrink feet sizes but oriental women start in youth by foot binding, but it creates huge issues down the road. Hormones alone are magic, but you have to really have the mindframe of you get what you get when you take them. Many of us are blessed in full by their effects, but you cannot expect them to turn back time or create more then your body, genetics are naturally capable of achieving. And no one knows that extent for years. But alone they cant do everything, they pretty much have limited capacity to work on with a lot of us, mainly the post pubescent natal male body. Its a nightmare, i feel you, but trust me from a 6 ft 30 year old woman, they do wonders you cant really imagine until they happen. And good news for you: they mostly DO happeln. I had that same mindset a few times when flipping between taking T and E growing up (IS condition) E cannot undo everything T does, but in general, it helps in so many areas that i do not discourage it.  Just gotta approach it with a mindset of you get what it gives and what it cant change or give, there is surgery for some things. A lot of width upper body is muscle mass. A lot. Best bet? Diet like hell before hrt to achieve female weight range for your body type and height/age. Then? Let E work, but give it leeway and time doll, it truly is a lifesaver. Thats the best advice I can give u? I hope it helps somewhat. There is just no scientific way possible to go from arnold swartzanegger to say luci lou. But you could go from arnie to say, anna cornacova;) lol.

hi star ,
           i can tell you a few things i guess as i been on hormones for seven months now . plus all what i have read because i studied about myself for two years before i discovered i was transgender . i can be wrong about some things but always better safe than sorry .
  for one you did get a lot right about what estrogen will cover . you wont have to practice your voice for two years more like just a few months of hard practice as i am . for the breast they will just come but a percentage of the growth of the size of the family . you dont want to do implants till after you reached your peak of growth if you decide to take hormones .
when i started seven months ago i lost my weight so i hope itll come back in all the right places . so far not bad being 5' 7" 135lbs. .
it all boils down to you will never know till you try . if you decide to do it just remember you have plenty of sisters here that will be here for you .
xoxoxo
lexis

Well,

HRT – best of everything I've ever heard and I'm not sure I believe all of it but everyone is different.  Your odds of all of this would probably be 1:400,000+/- based on rather iffy facts.  Your height can go form 6'3" to 6'0.  You might be able to make a 38 DDD or even F.  You might get some type of an hour glass figure.  Your feet may shrink a size or a size and a half.  You start your voice lessons now. You work out a lot and everything goes perfect, you would be a very nice looking 6' woman.
 
Let's assume money is no object AND you could find a TEAM of surgeons qualified to do All of the operations necessary – everything you want.  You would be two to three (or more) years in continuous surgery and you might still have a problem with the size of your bones.  Some of the surgeries, like removing vertebra, would be very risky, very time consuming and would have a high probability of failure or you could end up in constant pain. You are talking a lot of money.  You could be looking at a few million if you were to go for organ transplants and some of the more exotic experimental procedures (procedures that have an unknown probability of success).

Realistic – go to a qualified psychologist, start HRT, start transition.  Figure out what being a woman really means to you.  Then, make your plan accordingly.  There are a lot of uncommon surgeries out there and more is possible than what most of us can afford.  Take it one step at a time if you are serious.  Remember, once the battle starts, the plan goes out the window.  Adapt, improvise and overcome – to your own success.