Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I take the finasteride (Proscar) for 4 months. I take the androcur and Progynova for 3 months. I stopped losing my hair.
I have microscopic white hairs that grow white at the temples.
Do you think it will turn into real hair.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg95.xooimage.com%2Ffiles%2F0%2Fe%2F3%2Fdsc08044-41a1928.jpg&hash=5c666d774315ebb22cb61e9a1ed1eabe4b03c8f6) (http://img95.xooimage.com/views/0/e/3/dsc08044-41a1928.jpg/)

The image is not very sexy!

In my experience, a good HRT regimen will stop hair loss, but you're going to need to use minoxidil if you want to get very much regrowth. Unfortunately, minoxidil isn't that great at regrowing hair in the temple area (it works well elsewhere though), so you may need to look at getting a hair transplant if you want full coverage back. Results vary a lot from person to person, so you won't really know what you're going to get with minixidil until you've been using it for about a year.

You may also want to look at this (http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;aulast=Dhurat) study regarding the use of a dermaroller to enhance to results of a minoxidil regimen. It seems really promising. I've been trying a dermaroller on my temples once a week for the past couple of weeks, and while it's too early to see any real results, if it works as well for for me as the people in the study, I may not need a transplant in my temple area after all.

I've been taking Finasteride (generic propecia) for six months and the small fine vellus hair is getting longer and thicker, as the hair regrows.  And new vellus hairs are slowly filling in the parts of my scalp that are still bald.  The new longer hair that grows is very fine in diameter, but my dark blond hair (now gray) has always been fine so I'm just glad to have more of it.  I'm not sure how far regrowth will go, but I'll keep it up until I can afford to get an individual hair transplant.  But a transplant is an expensive option and it's years off.

Sorry, but I don't think those hairs will turn terminal.  I've always had little hairs like those on my entire body - even my forehead - and they've never shown any inclination of going terminal.  That being said, it's likely that terminal hair will regrow if lost recently.  My hairline is lowering from a combination of finasteride, estradiol, and spironolactone (I have no clue which has the most prevalence in the matter), and I've never even lost hair, at least as far as I'm aware.

Quote from: Miyuki on October 22, 2013, 08:01:31 AM
In my experience, a good HRT regimen will stop hair loss, but you're going to need to use minoxidil if you want to get very much regrowth. Unfortunately, minoxidil isn't that great at regrowing hair in the temple area (it works well elsewhere though), so you may need to look at getting a hair transplant if you want full coverage back. Results vary a lot from person to person, so you won't really know what you're going to get with minixidil until you've been using it for about a year.

You may also want to look at this (http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;aulast=Dhurat) study regarding the use of a dermaroller to enhance to results of a minoxidil regimen. It seems really promising. I've been trying a dermaroller on my temples once a week for the past couple of weeks, and while it's too early to see any real results, if it works as well for for me as the people in the study, I may not need a transplant in my temple area after all.

What size dermaroller are you using?

1.5mm, the same size used in the study.

I had areas similar to the OP that started silling in once I started HRT.. 2.5 years later and they have gone terminal..

Was all a bit of a surprise really, I didn't realise that I'd lost any hair..

Quote from: Miyuki on October 22, 2013, 07:05:51 PM
1.5mm, the same size used in the study.

Cool, does it break skin or hurt much?

Quote from: kathyk on October 22, 2013, 09:16:37 AM
I've been taking Finasteride (generic propecia) for six months and the small fine vellus hair is getting longer and thicker, as the hair regrows.  And new vellus hairs are slowly filling in the parts of my scalp that are still bald.  The new longer hair that grows is very fine in diameter, but my dark blond hair (now gray) has always been fine so I'm just glad to have more of it.  I'm not sure how far regrowth will go, but I'll keep it up until I can afford to get an individual hair transplant.  But a transplant is an expensive option and it's years off.

Thanks, I'm going to start on propeica soon, like you I have thin hair & would sure like to avoid any transplant. Good luck.

Quote from: Thylacin on October 22, 2013, 08:44:00 PM
Cool, does it break skin or hurt much?

If you're using it right, yes. You need to press down fairly hard when you use it for it to be the most effective. This usually means a fair amount of pain, and some bleeding. After you use it you're not even supposed to use any minoxidil for at least 24 hours so your skin has time to heal. Apparently the healing process reactivates stem cells that can turn into new hair follicles, and that's why it works.

Quote from: Horizon on October 22, 2013, 09:50:35 AM
Sorry, but I don't think those hairs will turn terminal.  I've always had little hairs like those on my entire body - even my forehead - and they've never shown any inclination of going terminal.  That being said, it's likely that terminal hair will regrow if lost recently.  My hairline is lowering from a combination of finasteride, estradiol, and spironolactone (I have no clue which has the most prevalence in the matter), and I've never even lost hair, at least as far as I'm aware.

Sorry but why are you taking the Finasteride then?

Quote from: Bardoux on October 23, 2013, 04:53:53 AM
Sorry but why are you taking the Finasteride then?

Perhaps because it is a mild anti androgen that specifically targets and inhibits the conversion of T to DHT. Some HRT regimens use it and others do not.

Quote from: Bardoux on October 23, 2013, 04:53:53 AM
Sorry but why are you taking the Finasteride then?

I started taking it pre-HRT to prevent MPB, which is very prevalent in my family.  I never quit because something seems to be working!

Having been on HRT + Finasteride + occasionally Dutasteride for 9 months now, I can tell you that a lot of those tiny little fuzzy blond hairs will indeed go terminal. HRT can usually reverse about 7 years worth of hair loss. It will take about 3-5 years to do so, but it will recover a LOT of hair once all is said and done, especially if the loss is recent.

Any region on the head that is shiny, though, it won't regrow. That means that the hair follicles are dead. But if you can still see hairs there, but they've gotten thin and weak, that means that the hair isn't dead, just rendered weakened or inactive temporarily by DHT. And once the DHT is removed, the hair will indeed eventually regrow.

In my case, I started HRT with very thin hair in the front of my head. Pretty much the entire top of my head was see-through, and it had been getting thinner and thinner with every single year before that, starting when I was about 20.

And so that you have a good visual comparison, here's what my hairline looked like when I started HRT, and what it looks like now, 9 months in.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/311530_647719433721_278966919_n.jpg)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.tinypic.com%2Forqb0l.jpg&hash=e87486ad03468a42e15f8a25b5d8726278c8022b)

As you can see, there is quite a difference even in this short time. The hair started really regrowing around the 4-month mark, and has been thickening more and more with every single month since then. And right now, there's still a lovely crop of newly-terminal hairs right along the edges of my hairline. I still have a very defined "M" recession pattern, which I doubt is going to change, but it has been getting better. And the back of my head has also filled in a lot. I had a very noticeable half-bald spot back there before starting HRT, where now, although there's still some pink showing through, it's back to about the level of baldness that I had back there around age 23.

Basically, at first the hairs will pop back out as peach fuzz. A few months after that you'll notice that some of the peach fuzz along the edges of the hairline has gotten longer than the rest, and they look almost like small versions of normal blond hairs. A couple of months after that, where those longer blond hairs were, a few terminal hairs will be popping up, and there will be a line of shorter brown hairs along the edges of the hairline, that will continue to grow normally until they reach the same length as the rest of your head hair. This process will continue very slowly, progressing more and more, until about the 3-5 year mark, at which point it will even out. The amount of hair regrown, again, depends on how recent the loss has been, as well as just how low you're able to get your DHT levels, plus things like having a good diet.

Wow, there's some pretty interesting info in this thread.  I genuinely thought the little baby hairs would never grow :p

Quote from: Miyuki on October 22, 2013, 09:35:09 PM
If you're using it right, yes. You need to press down fairly hard when you use it for it to be the most effective. This usually means a fair amount of pain, and some bleeding. After you use it you're not even supposed to use any minoxidil for at least 24 hours so your skin has time to heal. Apparently the healing process reactivates stem cells that can turn into new hair follicles, and that's why it works.

Oh wow! Ouch! I might give it a shot if just minoxidil doesn't work well enough for me. Are you satisfied with your roller? If so, do you know which brand it is? I've seen some on amazon but a lot of people say they were cheaply made/broke.

Quote from: Thylacin on October 23, 2013, 07:05:33 PM
Oh wow! Ouch! I might give it a shot if just minoxidil doesn't work well enough for me. Are you satisfied with your roller? If so, do you know which brand it is? I've seen some on amazon but a lot of people say they were cheaply made/broke.

I think I might have made it sound worse than it is. :P It hurts, but it's not the worst pain in the world. Using an epilator on a patch of hair for the first time hurts more. Here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CDR036Y/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) is the one I got. I'm not sure if it's the best one, but it seems to work well enough and it got decent reviews. I'm also just now noticing the current price is half what I paid for it. ::)

Minoxidil seems to be helping me revive my thinned out cranium. Those peach fuzz hairs are now spouting everywhere and there are hundreds of them a various lengths. I still have a loooooong way to go but it is very encouraging!

Quote from: Miyuki on October 23, 2013, 07:34:17 PM
I think I might have made it sound worse than it is. :P It hurts, but it's not the worst pain in the world. Using an epilator on a patch of hair for the first time hurts more. Here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CDR036Y/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) is the one I got. I'm not sure if it's the best one, but it seems to work well enough and it got decent reviews. I'm also just now noticing the current price is half what I paid for it. ::)

Well, thanks for the link and the info! I'll give it a shot. I did some more googling and people have reported it to work. But of course, the plural of anecdote isn't data!

How often do you use it? I've read some people use it weekly, but others have said with 1.5mm, it shouldn't be used more than once every 6 weeks.

Quote from: Thylacin on October 23, 2013, 08:52:07 PM
Well, thanks for the link and the info! I'll give it a shot. I did some more googling and people have reported it to work. But of course, the plural of anecdote isn't data!

No problem, and I hope it goes well for you. :) Like I said, I haven't been using it long enough to see results, but everything I've read on it so far indicates that it's at the very least more effective than using minoxidil by itself.

Quote from: Thylacin on October 23, 2013, 08:52:07 PM
How often do you use it? I've read some people use it weekly, but others have said with 1.5mm, it shouldn't be used more than once every 6 weeks.

I use it once a week. I never read anything that said you should use it less, and once a week was what they tested in the study. So far, once a week has been enough for my scalp to finish healing, and I think that's the goal.

So I ordered a dermaroller today.  The results in the study seem pretty remarkable.  I've been using minoxidil for about 6 months (not on HRT) and I have noticed a difference.  My front hair line has gone from virtually nothing, to about the thickness of leg hair, and the bald spot in the back of my head has decreased as well.  (I've also got a fair amount of "peach fuzz" over my hair line)

I have been using a Panthenol-D skin toner (neutrogena) to clean out the sebum from my head before applying the minoxidil. (not sure if it makes a difference, but it's pretty cheap compared to the cost of minoxidil so I use it)

I am excited to try the dermaroller.  If I can get results like those in the study it would be pretty awesome.

J.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 23, 2013, 12:34:01 PM
Having been on HRT + Finasteride + occasionally Dutasteride for 9 months now, I can tell you that a lot of those tiny little fuzzy blond hairs will indeed go terminal. HRT can usually reverse about 7 years worth of hair loss. It will take about 3-5 years to do so, but it will recover a LOT of hair once all is said and done, especially if the loss is recent.

Any region on the head that is shiny, though, it won't regrow. That means that the hair follicles are dead. But if you can still see hairs there, but they've gotten thin and weak, that means that the hair isn't dead, just rendered weakened or inactive temporarily by DHT. And once the DHT is removed, the hair will indeed eventually regrow.

In my case, I started HRT with very thin hair in the front of my head. Pretty much the entire top of my head was see-through, and it had been getting thinner and thinner with every single year before that, starting when I was about 20.

And so that you have a good visual comparison, here's what my hairline looked like when I started HRT, and what it looks like now, 9 months in.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/311530_647719433721_278966919_n.jpg)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.tinypic.com%2Forqb0l.jpg&hash=e87486ad03468a42e15f8a25b5d8726278c8022b)

As you can see, there is quite a difference even in this short time. The hair started really regrowing around the 4-month mark, and has been thickening more and more with every single month since then. And right now, there's still a lovely crop of newly-terminal hairs right along the edges of my hairline. I still have a very defined "M" recession pattern, which I doubt is going to change, but it has been getting better. And the back of my head has also filled in a lot. I had a very noticeable half-bald spot back there before starting HRT, where now, although there's still some pink showing through, it's back to about the level of baldness that I had back there around age 23.

Basically, at first the hairs will pop back out as peach fuzz. A few months after that you'll notice that some of the peach fuzz along the edges of the hairline has gotten longer than the rest, and they look almost like small versions of normal blond hairs. A couple of months after that, where those longer blond hairs were, a few terminal hairs will be popping up, and there will be a line of shorter brown hairs along the edges of the hairline, that will continue to grow normally until they reach the same length as the rest of your head hair. This process will continue very slowly, progressing more and more, until about the 3-5 year mark, at which point it will even out. The amount of hair regrown, again, depends on how recent the loss has been, as well as just how low you're able to get your DHT levels, plus things like having a good diet.

Your testimony gives me a lot of hope, because now I do not know what haircut adopt because of my hair loss. My dermatologist suggested me Antyage LED ®

I quote "LEDs are sources of low intensity light that stimulate the cell via a photo-sensitive receiver that enables the mitochondria to produce ATP, the cell's energy source. LEDs can be operated either in an anti-inflammatory, analgesic or curative, and are therefore valuable for skin rejuvenation and skin reconstruction. challenging goal, the dermal cells, activated by a brief exposure to red light produced significantly more collagen and anti synthesize molecules -inflammatory drugs. "

I do not know my too if it's a scam or not. It costs 50 euros per appointment

Quote from: Christine167 on October 23, 2013, 04:59:16 AM
Perhaps because it is a mild anti androgen that specifically targets and inhibits the conversion of T to DHT. Some HRT regimens use it and others do not.

I meant more along the lines of why is she taking finasteride as well as spiro, since spiro in high enough doses should significantly lower T levels. Might be worth asking your Endo Horizon if you still need to be taking both.

Quote from: Bardoux on October 24, 2013, 04:10:11 AM
I meant more along the lines of why is she taking finasteride as well as spiro, since spiro in high enough doses should significantly lower T levels. Might be worth asking your Endo Horizon if you still need to be taking both.

When I asked my endo about Fin he said I wouldn't need it if I was taking Spiro, you need T to make DHT... and without either then there's nothing for Fin to block...

Minoxidil on the other hand works (apparently, since they claim they don't know how it works) by stimulating the growth of follicles.

Providing I get reasonable regrowth I'll post a few before and after shots... when I actually have an after!

Quote from: Miyuki on October 23, 2013, 09:14:18 PM
No problem, and I hope it goes well for you. :) Like I said, I haven't been using it long enough to see results, but everything I've read on it so far indicates that it's at the very least more effective than using minoxidil by itself.

I use it once a week. I never read anything that said you should use it less, and once a week was what they tested in the study. So far, once a week has been enough for my scalp to finish healing, and I think that's the goal.

Yeah, I realized that the people talking about using 1.5mm rollers once every 4-6 weeks are talking in the context of using it for skin rejuvenation and not hair regrowth. Apparently, it takes 4-6 weeks for new collagen to fully form, and using it too frequently can disrupt what you're trying to achieve with your skin.

I don't know if it's just me, but I've been using minoxidil for about 2 months now and I feel like I have more fine fuzzy hair on my scalp than before. I remember it being kinda shiny and hairless in between hairs. It also seems like those little fuzzy hairs have gotten a bit longer and darker.

Maybe a sign it's working!? I hope so!

Quote from: Bardoux on October 24, 2013, 04:10:11 AM
I meant more along the lines of why is she taking finasteride as well as spiro, since spiro in high enough doses should significantly lower T levels. Might be worth asking your Endo Horizon if you still need to be taking both.

I'm not able to see an endo - just a TG experienced doctor.  My levels are right where I want them (30 T/ 467 E) with generic Proscar cut into quarters (never been tested without, and way too early in to feel comfortable taking "huge" risks).  I'm mostly on it as it's better to be safe than sorry.  Any level of T can potentially create DHT, even if in small amounts, and I'm likely quite susceptible to it.

So I just got it, and rolled my scalp, and ow. However, I'm not always sure the pins are piercing my skin because there's so many of them (bed of nails type thing), it just feels like they're just rolling along sometimes. My scalp is a bit red.
Do you wash your hair afterwards?

I'm concerned about infections =/

Quote from: Thylacin on October 25, 2013, 04:00:37 PM
So I just got it, and rolled my scalp, and ow. However, I'm not always sure the pins are piercing my skin because there's so many of them (bed of nails type thing), it just feels like they're just rolling along sometimes. My scalp is a bit red.
Do you wash your hair afterwards?

I'm concerned about infections =/

From the study:

In the Microneedling group, patients received a weekly Microneedling procedure on the scalp with 1 ml of 5% Minoxidil lotion applied twice daily. In Minoxidil group, patient applied only 1 ml of 5% Minoxidil lotion twice daily.

Microneedling procedure

The shaven scalp was prepared with betadine and normal saline. A dermaroller of 1.5 mm sized needles was rolled over the affected areas of the scalp in a longitudinal, vertical, and diagonal directions until mild erythema [fancy word for redness] was noted, which was considered as the end point of the procedure. All patients were instructed not to apply Minoxidil on the day of procedure and to resume its application only 24 h after the Microneedling procedure.

-----------------------------

The things that I take from this are:

-you need to use the dermaroller once a week

-I think as long as your scalp is red, that should be enough. 

-Also I think the betadine should work to prevent any infection.

Good luck everyone trying this out.

J.

Yup, I read the study. I was wondering if anyone had personal experience to confirm how they performed the rolling/etc.