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I had my out patient check up with another surgeon, Phil Thomas at Charing Cross hospital. He said in a copy of a letter that I've definitely got a prolapse but also I've lost most of my neo-vagina.

I don't know what could have caused this. Does anyone know the reasons as to why this can happen?

Note also, I had an haematoma and an infection too which was treated with antibiotics  :)

Thanks

nessa76

Edit: I've to bring my dilators with me and to be shown properly of how to dilate. The surgeon will see whilst i'm under, what depth I actually have left  :o

I am sorry to hear that. I hope you will find a way to fix it together with the surgeon. Definitely I wish you the Best. What is a prolapse in this context? Is it that the vaginal wall got "loose" and thats why you lost depth?

Quote from: anjaq on October 29, 2013, 07:09:38 PM
I am sorry to hear that. I hope you will find a way to fix it together with the surgeon. Definitely I wish you the Best. What is a prolapse in this context? Is it that the vaginal wall got "loose" and thats why you lost depth?

A prolapse is the muscle wall, a weakness that caused half my vagina to hang out lol   I don't know if I've lost depth, but I've had a prolapse and lost most of my neo-vagina

I know a lady who also had a prolapse.  It was with Mr Bellringer, I believe, but could have been Mr Thomas.  I'm not saying it was the surgeon's fault, though.  I can't comment on that as I do not know.   The lady in question had to have a Colovaginoplasty revision (very invasive procedure).  She now has excellent depth.   

   What method of GRS did you have?  Penile Inversion or Scrotal-sac technique?   I believe the latter is harder to get to adhere to the vaginal walls. 

  I would like to say: don't lose hope.  You CAN get this fixed. 

Black humour I suppose that you are doing lols while describing this. I hope you will find a solution. Colonovaginoplasty works and it was how they fixed me, but "very invasive" - no kidding. But its possible, one gets over this and in the end it is fine, but I know how bad it feels to just finally have gotten the proper parts and then loosing them again.

As to why it happened, in the postop section I commented in a thread about soul-source dilators.

In that comment I included some descriptions of some of the challenges faced by a surgeon in constructing a neovagina, and indeed in avoiding this very issue. The problem is lack of the normal suspensory ligaments attached to the uterus.

You might find it interesting to read.

Correct dilation technique is important during the early stages, but to be honest complications do happen, and often it is no ones fault, just bad luck. It happened to my ex partner. She got a Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus infection in the wound and she lost almost all her vaginal depth. That was back in the 1980's - so these things happen and the important thing is to get it fixed - which can be done.

Quote from: boddi on October 29, 2013, 07:21:33 PM
I know a lady who also had a prolapse.  It was with Mr Bellringer, I believe, but could have been Mr Thomas.  I'm not saying it was the surgeon's fault, though.  I can't comment on that as I do not know.   The lady in question had to have a Colovaginoplasty revision (very invasive procedure).  She now has excellent depth.   

   What method of GRS did you have?  Penile Inversion or Scrotal-sac technique?   I believe the latter is harder to get to adhere to the vaginal walls. 

  I would like to say: don't lose hope.  You CAN get this fixed.

I had the penile inversion technique. I'm hoping I don't need colovaginoplasty, although it does have its pros  e.g. elf lubricant, great depth etc... but if i'd much prefer vecchietti procedure, not sure if its offered in the UK though  :)

Edit: I do know I can get it fixed, its just that colovaginoplasty doesn't appeal to me but I know that there is definitely other methods which are less invasive  :)

This scares the bejeesus out of me.  I had my sigmoid colon removed two years ago due to extreme diverticulitis, and don't have that to fall back upon. (And I feel for all of you who went this SRS route!)  I only get one shot at this now and I freak out on airplanes, so I basically get to pick from Drs. Alter, Bowers and Meltzer as they are the only ones that I know of within driving distance of Los Angeles.

Any good/bad experiences with these Drs.?  It has to work the first time without major complications or else!  The good news is that I naturally heal well, don't smoke and can stick to a diet/exercise plan if need be.

Quote from: Jill F on October 29, 2013, 07:45:07 PM
This scares the bejeesus out of me.  I had my sigmoid colon removed two years ago due to extreme diverticulitis, and don't have that to fall back upon. (And I feel for all of you who went this SRS route!)  I only get one shot at this now and I freak out on airplanes, so I basically get to pick from Drs. Alter, Bowers and Meltzer as they are the only ones that I know of within driving distance of Los Angeles.

Any good/bad experiences with these Drs.?  It has to work the first time without major complications or else!  The good news is that I naturally heal well, don't smoke and can stick to a diet/exercise plan if need be.

I live in the UK not America but i'm sure I read somewhere that Meltzer is a good choice of surgeon. Don't quote me on that though  :)

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150450.0.html

This is the link to a couple saying Toby Meltzer has a good reputation  :)  Hope this helps you a little

Quote from: anjaq on October 29, 2013, 07:26:10 PM
Black humour I suppose that you are doing lols while describing this. I hope you will find a solution. Colonovaginoplasty works and it was how they fixed me, but "very invasive" - no kidding. But its possible, one gets over this and in the end it is fine, but I know how bad it feels to just finally have gotten the proper parts and then loosing them again.

Does colovaginoplasty leave a red spot on the vagina? I'm sure I read somewhere that it does  :)

Quote from: nessa76 on October 29, 2013, 08:19:09 PM
Does colovaginoplasty leave a red spot on the vagina? I'm sure I read somewhere that it does  :)

It will leave a ring of scar tissue where the penile and colon tissues meet. It will also leave an abdominal scar, like a caesarian scar and damage to muscle causing a bulge above and below the scar. Personally, this is something I wanted to avoid, even if it meant shallow depth.

Quote from: Nicolette on October 30, 2013, 03:21:43 AM
It will leave a ring of scar tissue where the penile and colon tissues meet. It will also leave an abdominal scar, like a caesarian scar and damage to muscle causing a bulge above and below the scar. Personally, this is something I wanted to avoid, even if it meant shallow depth.

As matter of fact, a good surgeon should be able to do the colonovaginoplasty lapascopically, with minor incisions and hence less scarring and quicker healing.

Quote from: LauraGirl on October 30, 2013, 03:31:44 AM
As matter of fact, a good surgeon should be able to do the colonovaginoplasty lapascopically, with minor incisions and hence less scarring and quicker healing.

Very true. But not all good surgeons provide this excellent alternative.

Jill, there is always skin grafts as well, if you cannot have a colonovaginoplasty. This leaves of course scars elsewhere. But I guess we all have our scars - some few, some a lot more.

Quote from: Nicolette on October 30, 2013, 03:21:43 AM
It will leave a ring of scar tissue where the penile and colon tissues meet. It will also leave an abdominal scar, like a caesarian scar and damage to muscle causing a bulge above and below the scar. Personally, this is something I wanted to avoid, even if it meant shallow depth.

You seem to have experience there - do you know if there are ways to treat these issues? I think I have that ring scar and it is painful. I try to dilate it away, is there a good chance that will succeed? (Post op 13 years). Also I have a lot of these bulges and dents with my scars at the abdominen but also right at the upper line of the pubic hair. Are there corrective measures to minimize these? Like filling the dents with body fat or something? Thanks

Quote from: anjaq on October 30, 2013, 07:29:00 AM
Jill, there is always skin grafts as well, if you cannot have a colonovaginoplasty. This leaves of course scars elsewhere. But I guess we all have our scars - some few, some a lot more.
You seem to have experience there - do you know if there are ways to treat these issues? I think I have that ring scar and it is painful. I try to dilate it away, is there a good chance that will succeed? (Post op 13 years). Also I have a lot of these bulges and dents with my scars at the abdominen but also right at the upper line of the pubic hair. Are there corrective measures to minimize these? Like filling the dents with body fat or something? Thanks

Unfortunately, I have no first hand experience. My having been circumcised led me to investigate, thoroughly, the different options over the years. Regarding the abdominal scar, I would have a consultation with a plastic surgeon. There are definitely options to revise the scar.

Was this your primary procedure? Isn't the scar unavoidable when you dilate, therefore you must by now have had some success in 13 years?

Quote from: Nicolette on October 30, 2013, 12:32:01 PM
Unfortunately, I have no first hand experience.
Was this your primary procedure? Isn't the scar unavoidable when you dilate, therefore you must by now have had some success in 13 years?

Make that "fortunately" ;)
I try to be short-ish to not make this thread about me. I had a regular penile inversion, but things went bad (reason: surgeons small mistake, staffs incompetence to handle it, possibly not enough material to work with and thus overstretching). I ended up with a fistula in the ER and they did some sort of patchwork that involved what was left of the PI and parts of the colon. I was not really told about the risks or the procedures as basically they had to make something up in the operating room in a semi-emergency procedure. I am sure I signed off something but I doubt that would even count in court as I was a mental mess. The reason this comes up now is that I dilated not at all right post op (it was not possible) and later I did not dilate enough. Recently I pulled myself together and am dilating daily to get things back in shape and I noticed a rather painful ring-like structure which I believe is that scar. I think I have had some success in getting it better, but it still is the most painful part of dilation except maybe my attempts to regain depth. So I will keep trying but could use some words of hope that it can go away without additional surgery (or some information on how invasive such a surgery would be).

You have much hope!! Remember, you have it so much easier than Supporn patients! They have much more scar tissue than you. Because of the srs technique used, they have a lot of scar tissue contraction which occurs later in their recover which they have to dilate through. They all get through it. Without doubt, you will too.  :-*

I remember Manjit Takhar who is a gender nurse at Charing Cross, saying that 1 male to female transgender had 100 prolapses. Geez I've had 2 already. I think it was my own stupid fault though, I was carrying shopping that I thought wasn't heavy but must had been. I should had been taking it easy instead. Oh well, one lives and learns I guess lol

Just an update. I e-mailed the gender nurse and she's e-mailed the admissions department to let her know that i'm to be on an urgent waiting list. By that, I should get my admission date & time soon  :)

Quote from: Jill F on October 29, 2013, 07:45:07 PM
I only get one shot at this now and I freak out on airplanes, so I basically get to pick from Drs. Alter, Bowers and Meltzer as they are the only ones that I know of within driving distance of Los Angeles.

Any good/bad experiences with these Drs.?  It has to work the first time without major complications or else! 

Marci Bowers was my surgeon (I am also in the L.A. region) and my only little problem was a yeast infection that was quickly controlled by my Ob/Gyn down here.  I am older and high risk for a couple of reasons but everything went well and I am happy at 9 months+.  PM me if you want more info.

One of the surgeons that I sadly did not manage to afford was Dr Spehr and what she did in her patients was to make a "sling" at the end of the neovagina, which she tied to some bone or ligament back there to keep it in place. I think this really well eliminated prolapses for her patients. She does not work anymore, but maybe some other surgeon does the same?

Quote from: Nicolette on October 30, 2013, 05:19:54 PM
You have much hope!! Remember, you have it so much easier than Supporn patients! They have much more scar tissue than you. Because of the srs technique used, they have a lot of scar tissue contraction which occurs later in their recover which they have to dilate through. They all get through it. Without doubt, you will too.  :-*

I'm sure the kind words are intended to reassure her, but as a Suporn patient, I can tell you there wasn't anything particularly horrid about his dilation schedule or technique. Indeed, it sounded a lot better than the four or more daily dilations some others use.

Quote from: nessa76 on October 29, 2013, 07:40:18 PM
I had the penile inversion technique. I'm hoping I don't need colovaginoplasty, although it does have its pros  e.g. elf lubricant, great depth etc... but if i'd much prefer vecchietti procedure, not sure if its offered in the UK though  :)

Edit: I do know I can get it fixed, its just that colovaginoplasty doesn't appeal to me but I know that there is definitely other methods which are less invasive  :)

    Ok, well I'm not very au fait with the Vechietti procedure: what is it exactly?    Yes, a Colovaginoplasty is invasive.  It scares me, to be honest, but then I know it has it's perks.  However, the natural lubrication can be variable.  Not only too abundant, but less than you might require, though still more than Penile Inversion, I have heard.  Ask LOTS of questions before committing to anything.  Peter Walker, in New Zealand, offers keyhole Colovaginoplasty, I hear.  Look him up.

Quote from: boddi on October 31, 2013, 10:14:25 AM

    Ok, well I'm not very au fait with the Vechietti procedure: what is it exactly?    Yes, a Colovaginoplasty is invasive.  It scares me, to be honest, but then I know it has it's perks.  However, the natural lubrication can be variable.  Not only too abundant, but less than you might require, though still more than Penile Inversion, I have heard.  Ask LOTS of questions before committing to anything.  Peter Walker, in New Zealand, offers keyhole Colovaginoplasty, I hear.  Look him up.

Vecchietti procedure is A semi-surgical method that takes advantage of laparoscopy to accelerate dilation.
An olive-shaped device, placed at the vaginal opening, is connected
with sutures to a traction device on the lower abdomen. Under
laparoscopic guidance, the traction device is tightened daily,
gradually pulling the olive-shaped device inward to create a vagina.
This takes approximately one week. The device is then removed
and further manual dilation performed.

James Bellringer who did my penile inversion surgery does keyhole colovaginoplasty too but its not what I want done. Each to their own personal preferences  :)

I've my admission date now, 24th November at 4 p.m.  :)   I can get the prolapse fixed and see what depth I have & to be shown correctly on where to dilate.

I'll have to consider the options for a creation of a new neo-vagina & possible deeper depth sometime in the future  :)

So that prolapse can come from incorrect dilation? How does that work - I mean how can you dilate "incorrectly"??

Quote from: anjaq on November 01, 2013, 04:24:30 AM
So that prolapse can come from incorrect dilation? How does that work - I mean how can you dilate "incorrectly"??

The prolapse hasn't come from dilating incorrectly. Its just for me to be shown where to dilate after my prolapse is fixed because its quite difficult to dilate properly, going through my pelvic muscle with half my vagina hanging out. Hope that makes sense  :)

Quote from: anjaq on October 31, 2013, 08:05:09 AM
One of the surgeons that I sadly did not manage to afford was Dr Spehr and what she did in her patients was to make a "sling" at the end of the neovagina, which she tied to some bone or ligament back there to keep it in place. I think this really well eliminated prolapses for her patients. She does not work anymore, but maybe some other surgeon does the same?

Internal fixation (to ligament) is one of the ways to prevent prolapse. Mine was a loop suture to the pubic area which was removed a week post. Ugly but it worked.

I just read somewhere that the prolapse I've got is part of the neo-vagina. I've my admission date this Sunday at 4p.m. so soon be here to get it fixed, can't wait tbh lol   Its been getting me down a little but once its fixed I should be okay  :)