Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This has never clicked with me, How is that possible, My lesbian associates see me as strictly a man and wouldn't wanna date me, Ive hear so many lesbians and bi women say the will not date cis men or I hate cismen but like ftms, I don't know its just been boggling my mind and I honestly find it highly offensive, Even though I only date straight women and bi women, I mean Ive been on youtube and have read through numerous forums on that disscusion

Some people define their sexuality based on genitals rather than gender.  If the trans guy is post op, I really couldn't tell you.

Here's a few possibilities.

1) Her partner began transition after the relationship had started and she's sticking by him.

2) She doesn't see the transman she's dating as a man.

3) She's dating a transman anyway despite her sexuality.

Quote from: Brandon on November 13, 2013, 08:43:25 PM
I don't know its just been boggling my mind and I honestly find it highly offensive

I would find it offensive too, that's very rude.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on November 13, 2013, 09:11:22 PM
Here's a few possibilities.

1) Her partner began transition after the relationship had started and she's sticking by him.

2) She doesn't see the transman she's dating as a man.

3) She's dating a transman anyway despite her sexuality.

I would find it offensive too, that's very rude.

That's what I was thinking, Ive heard lesbians say the only date women and transmen,

Yeah, there's this thread on another site where there are a couple lesbians saying they'd get with a pre-op trans guy and I don't know I just feel it is kinda offensive. I could understand if they were lesbian with exceptions, but they never said that and their sexuality indicator thing didn't say anything about exceptions...

It made me feel like they don't see us as true guys. They even called what we had "girl/female parts" and it made me feel really uncomfortable and stuff...

In defense of these lesbians, I do think that it's possible to be attracted not just to the body parts involved or to people they consider women, but to masculine people who were socialized as women. I think if someone genuinely regards and treats a transguy as a man, but still wants to date him and identify as lesbian, who am I to tell her differently?

Hi Brandon,

I think that while we are comfortable with our gender identity we may still be seen as 'interesting' to homosexual men and woman as they can confuse sex and gender.

The difference between gender and sex is a difficult concept for non-transgender people to understand. We just have to carefully explain to them. There is (usually) no intent in purposely insulting the transgender person in these circumstances, it is just confusion.

That was a nice post BTW, an interesting observation.

Cindy

Some people are more just scared to leave a community if they were with someone prior to them coming out and stayed with them.  They may well treat their partner as a man and see him as a man but being a lesbian may have been a big part of their past and they're maybe not so able to just drop out of being a member of the LGBT community and become just an ally.

To them they may justify it as having fallen in love with a female and then they later became a man and they loved them enough to stay with them.  But perhaps they don't have a sexual attraction to other males elsewhere.  For example they may not have any man crushes for actors, but fancy just women.  This doesn't mean they don't love their partner, but to compare, most crushes are for the stereotypical handsome or sexy individuals.  But in reality, we don't all get into relationships with people anywhere near the league of unatainable people we crush for.  If you're not a douche at least, you'll fall in love with all sorts of people because in the end personality should win out over what you look like. 

And that's why some will still identify as lesbians.  They are sexually attracted to women, but not men, except in their current relationship because they've fallen in love with the personality.

I guess to compare, lets use Steve Buscemi.  No offense to the guy, he seems like a nice guy, but he's not exactly A list Hollywood handsome.  Straight girls are more likely to lust after the Ryan Reynolds or Ryan Goslings (what's with the name Ryan?!) but in reality they can fall in love with the not so handsome.  But even if they wound up with someone who wasn't the typical definition of beauty, they probably still won't lust after the Steve Buscemis of the world despite that.  They still lust after the hot guys and they'll be their main go tos if that relationship should fail.  The person identifying as lesbian may feel that this is an exception, but if the relationship was to fail, they'd go back to just women.

I understand that concept, but only that one.  I find it offensive for any lesbian to lust after FTMs.  Because in that case, they really do abandon the lesbian designation and switch to bi!

Quote from: Ludwig.von.Mises on November 13, 2013, 11:55:24 PM
Who cares about labels?  Shouldn't it be about relationships?

Well I'm a straight male and I like women in some cases, I do care about lables, Because the relationship aint gonna work after a while

Quote from: MaybeBen on November 14, 2013, 01:16:30 AM
In defense of these lesbians, I do think that it's possible to be attracted not just to the body parts involved or to people they consider women, but to masculine people who were socialized as women. I think if someone genuinely regards and treats a transguy as a man, but still wants to date him and identify as lesbian, who am I to tell her differently?

If lesbians date transmen but not cismen theirs a problem that's offensive

Yes, I agree with you. Looking around on the web I found a dating site (sorry, I don't remember wich one) and I read some account descriptions. I was surprised, and a little angry, finding out many girls saying stuff like: I'm looking for women or transmen, please cismen don't contact me, I will ignore your messages. Like, what the hell? Don't they realise how offensive this is? And it is not just one case, I actually found a lot of this garbage.
A lesbian who says she is attracted by transguys must have some confusion over her sexuality.

I know quite a number of serious relationships of lesbians with transmen. Quite a few of these were in the relationship before the person became known to them as trans (but a few not that way). There is a lot of identification as being lesbian and part of that community. Some people in very long term relationships with trans men do not like to be thought of as entirely straight, because their own self-identification is not with being straight, if you get my meaning here. They feel in their heart-mind they are lesbian and usually went thru a process of claiming an identity as LESBIAN (correction).

If you are in such a relationship, it may be hard-confusing to you as you are male. I don't know what to say here to  you. I know some people that just say they are queer and that's okay with them. But others where that might not feel so easy. I'd say if you found a wonderful young woman that way to give her a lot of time and space to figure that out, as she might be worth keeping, but it takes her own process to know what to say about this.

--Jay

Quote from: Brandon on November 13, 2013, 09:16:53 PM


That's what I was thinking, Ive heard lesbians say the only date women and transmen,

Except when they same women, they mean cis women.

Quote from: Cindy on November 14, 2013, 01:21:04 AM
Hi Brandon,

I think that while we are comfortable with our gender identity we may still be seen as 'interesting' to homosexual men and woman as they can confuse sex and gender.

The difference between gender and sex is a difficult concept for non-transgender people to understand. We just have to carefully explain to them. There is (usually) no intent in purposely insulting the transgender person in these circumstances, it is just confusion.

That was a nice post BTW, an interesting observation.

Cindy

I agree but I have heard some lesbians say they only date transmen because of their bodies, I understand if they know they were trans in the lesbian relationship, But even the eventually hes gonna get on T, To p surgery or even bottom surgert

Quote from: Mattia on November 14, 2013, 09:03:50 AM
Yes, I agree with you. Looking around on the web I found a dating site (sorry, I don't remember wich one) and I read some account descriptions. I was surprised, and a little angry, finding out many girls saying stuff like: I'm looking for women or transmen, please cismen don't contact me, I will ignore your messages. Like, what the hell? Don't they realise how offensive this is? And it is not just one case, I actually found a lot of this garbage.
A lesbian who says she is attracted by transguys must have some confusion over her sexuality.

That's Why I will never date a lesbian, They can find me attractive but don't try and get with me

Quote from: Ludwig.von.Mises on November 14, 2013, 01:29:45 PM
It has been my experience the we in the transgendered community tend to lose friends and those who were formerly close to us, because of who we really are.

I am not sure that I would close out love and companionship because the other person does not meet some arbitrary standard of mine.

Wish you well my friend.

Your not getting how its offensive though that's another reason Transguys don't get taken seriously, And lesbians won't get taken seriously either if they keep that up, I care about labels in some ways I know I'm a straight meaning lesbians are off limits, If your truly straight gay bi or les I don't think its posdible to fall in love with either the same sex or opposite unlesd your bi or pan, Unless you arent being real with people, Yea love is blind but only with who ever you pefer to date, Unless she was with him before he knew he was trans, Then no shes not a real lesbian

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 02:45:36 PM


Your not getting how its offensive though that's another reason Transguys don't get taken seriously, And lesbians won't get taken seriously either if they keep that up, I care about labels in some ways I know I'm a straight meaning lesbians are off limits, If your truly straight gay bi or les I don't think its posdible to fall in love with either the same sex or opposite unlesd your bi or pan, Unless you arent being real with people, Yea love is blind but only with who ever you pefer to date, Unless she was with him before he knew he was trans, Then no shes not a real lesbian

Brandon, everyone here gets how it is offending you.  There's no confusion about that. 

Personally it doesn't matter to me. As long as they respect me as a guy and treat me as such regardless of my "parts" the relationship should be more about love rather than labels, sexuality is more fluid than some realize. Before I decided that transitioning was for me, my girlfriend labeled herself as "lesbian" but now realizes that her own sexuality is way more fluid than she thought. When people ask she just says she is "pansexual" but in all honesty she doesn't understand why labels are even an issue because love is just love regardless of gender or sex.

Granted a "lesbian" most likely would not sleep with a cismale because of the "parts" but the gender aspect might not matter to her. Is there even a label for someone who is attracted to cisfemales and transmen? Could be why some still label themselves as "lesbian" not knowing what else to be labeled as

One reason this situation may come up is that it is often massively hard to come out to people as gay.  Many people lose friends and family, jobs, etc.  They may even find it hard to accept it themselves, but eventually do.  Now imagine that one day they meet someone of the opposite gender but same birth sex and become attracted to that person.  It can be devastating to come to terms that that may mean that in fact they are not "really gay" after all and can be very hard to lose the label without feeling like they went through hell to not feel ashamed of their sexuality just to end up in what you may consider a "straight relationship."  I'm not saying you have to be in a relationship with one.  Or that you should be forced to feel any less of a man because someone calls themselves a lesbian and is attracted to you.  Just trying to give another perspective on the situation.

Quote from: Orange Creamsicle on November 14, 2013, 03:02:12 PM
One reason this situation may come up is that it is often massively hard to come out to people as gay.  Many people lose friends and family, jobs, etc.  They may even find it hard to accept it themselves, but eventually do.  Now imagine that one day they meet someone of the opposite gender but same birth sex and become attracted to that person.  It can be devastating to come to terms that that may mean that in fact they are not "really gay" after all and can be very hard to lose the label without feeling like they went through hell to not feel ashamed of their sexuality just to end up in what you may consider a "straight relationship."  I'm not saying you have to be in a relationship with one.  Or that you should be forced to feel any less of a man because someone calls themselves a lesbian and is attracted to you.  Just trying to give another perspective on the situation.

Very true, sometimes its hard to let go of a label after someone has went through hell to just be accepted for who they are. One reason why labels cause problems, you get judged if you don't label yourself and you get judged if you do label yourself

Quote from: Ludwig.von.Mises on November 14, 2013, 02:59:17 PM
How can a lesbian call herself a lesbian while dating transmen?

That is the question.  Are lesbians prohibited from liking, dating, or loving a person who happens to be a transman?  I can call myself anything I want and that would not diminish who I am.

If you are a transman who has not had some sort of bottom surgery then maybe the lesbian likes you for your masculinity and your body.  It might be the best of both worlds.  Look on the bright side.
[/quote



Last time I checked lesbians are sexually physically and emotionally attracted to women, They like lady parts just like straight men do, That's obviously the reason they date us, And many lesbians have said they only date transnen because of their body, No I don't wanna be considered the best of both worlds I also find that highly offensive, I'm a boy not some third gender or anything else, Theirs no bright side to that

Third gender? Of course there's a bright side to it. Don't be so close-minded, Brandon. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: brayden4 on November 14, 2013, 03:00:18 PM
Personally it doesn't matter to me. As long as they respect me as a guy and treat me as such regardless of my "parts" the relationship should be more about love rather than labels, sexuality is more fluid than some realize. Before I decided that transitioning was for me, my girlfriend labeled herself as "lesbian" but now realizes that her own sexuality is way more fluid than she thought. When people ask she just says she is "pansexual" but in all honesty she doesn't understand why labels are even an issue because love is just love regardless of gender or sex.

Granted a "lesbian" most likely would not sleep with a cismale because of the "parts" but the gender aspect might not matter to her. Is there even a label for someone who is attracted to cisfemales and transmen? Could be why some still label themselves as "lesbian" not knowing what else to be labeled as

Labels are important to most, How is a lesbian respecting you as a guy when dating you knowing she likes woman, I happen to not believe sexuality is all that fluid, Sure love is love but I know what I like and so does every other straight guy,

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 14, 2013, 03:18:50 PM
Third gender? Of course there's a bright side to it. Don't be so close-minded, Brandon. Hugs, Devlyn

I'm sorry I don't want a woman considering me the best of both worlds, How about as just a guy, boyfriend or husband, I find it offensive, I'm sure im not the only one, No disrespect or offense

And if labels arent important then why do lesbians insist on keeping that lable when a transman is infact a man

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 03:30:05 PM
And if labels arent important then why do lesbians insist on keeping that lable when a transman is infact a man

I gave a possible reason for that.

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 03:23:10 PM

I'm sorry I don't want a woman considering me the best of both worlds, How about as just a guy, boyfriend or husband, I find it offensive, I'm sure im not the only one, No disrespect or offense

I think your feelings on the subject are understandable. I would imagine that all the strife trans guys may experience when they come out makes it doubly difficult to have the gender they endured so much for questioned.

However, like others have said, I think there are cases of some lesbians not knowing enough about gender identity to realize transmen are simply men like any others. This is true of a lot of people-the majority I think-but there seems to be some expectation that lesbians should know better because they're part of the queer community. I don't know that that's fair-there is ignorance in every community. I'm not saying this thinking applies to anyone on this thread, it's just something to consider.

Quote from: Ludwig.von.Mises on November 14, 2013, 03:34:34 PM


Last time I checked lesbians are sexually physically and emotionally attracted to women, They like lady parts just like straight men do, That's obviously the reason they date us, And many lesbians have said they only date transnen because of their body, No I don't wanna be considered the best of both worlds I also find that highly offensive, I'm a boy not some third gender or anything else, Theirs no bright side to that


So you want to be seen as a boy, but you don't want to be objectified for your girl body.  I get that part.

Do you think that attraction only has to do body parts?!  What if someone loved you for your warm loving personality? Okay, so you are a boy in a girls body.  Why would it matter if a self described straight girl liked you or a self described lesbian liked you.  I completely don't get it.

No fully straight person would fall in love with same sex, No fully homosexual person would fall in love with the opposite sex, Chances are you were never hetero/gay from the start

Quote from: Ludwig.von.Mises on November 14, 2013, 03:37:50 PM
So is it you are offended if some person with a female body likes you, but calls herself a lesbian?  And that somehow calls into question that you are man?

Yes, No one is gonna take a transmen seriously if he's dating a lesbian, No ones gonna take a lesbian seriouls if she's dating a transmen, You wanna be seen as a man but date lesbians you wanna be seen as a lesbian but your dating a man, Know your just making it so much more confusing for cis people

Quote from: Shaina on November 14, 2013, 03:44:48 PM
I think your feelings on the subject are understandable. I would imagine that all the strife trans guys may experience when they come out makes it doubly difficult to have the gender they endured so much for questioned.

However, like others have said, I think there are cases of some lesbians not knowing enough about gender identity to realize transmen are simply men like any others. This is true of a lot of people-the majority I think-but there seems to be some expectation that lesbians should know better because they're part of the queer community. I don't know that that's fair-there is ignorance in every community. I'm not saying this thinking applies to anyone on this thread, it's just something to consider.

I agree 100% and yea their is alot of ignorance in all communities

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 04:10:31 PM


No fully straight person would fall in love with same sex, No fully homosexual person would fall in love with the opposite sex, Chances are you were never hetero/gay from the start

Which is also explained in my post....I feel like I'm being ignored.  Oh well.  I tried. 

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 04:10:31 PM


No fully straight person would fall in love with same sex, No fully homosexual person would fall in love with the opposite sex, Chances are you were never hetero/gay from the start

Yes, they can. Just because it isn't the same as your views doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Think before you post. Please.

Quote from: Ludwig.von.Mises on November 14, 2013, 03:43:49 PM
I hate to tell you this, but some lesbians like front hole sex.  It does not make them any less lesbians.

And lots of straight guys sometimes take a walk on the wild side.

I already know that, And hes not straight if he's doing that sorry to burst your bubble

Quote from: Joe. on November 14, 2013, 04:34:45 PM
Yes, they can. Just because it isn't the same as your views doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Think before you post. Please.

No bro it's not possible I'm sorry but I'm callin it b.s if your fully straight you would't even try to think of the same sex like that like that, same with gays accept for the opposite

 I mean I respect your guys oppinion but on some of I just don't agree

Brandon, you don't get to define peoples sexual orientation for them based solely on their actions.  Until you can read peoples minds, best to leave that up to the people themselves.

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 06:35:56 PM

No bro it's not possible I'm sorry but I'm callin it b.s if your fully straight you would't even try to think of the same sex like that like that, same with gays accept for the opposite

But if you fell in love with them before they told you they were trans, then you can still love them and keep your old identity if you want.

Why are we so focused on what sexuality people are? They have the right to identify as whatever feels most comfortable to them without other people deciding that since they don't agree, they have to challenge it and discredit it. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but it's their right to identify themselves as lesbians if they're with a transman, because as individuals they are the only ones qualified to define themselves.

I understand how it can be very offensive and hurtful, but I think it's a lot more simple than that (sorry if I'm wrong though) I think that basically these women are lesbians not because they dislike masculinity but because they dislike penises, hence they can fall in love/have sex with anyone who doesn't have one. It also depends on the type of relationship: long term vs one night stand because there's romantic orientation vs sexual orientation to take into account. For example some people are bisexual but are heteroromantic or homoromantic meaning that they can only fall in love or have a serious relationship with one gender but wouldn't mind doing neither on the side. Some people are aromantic but are either heterosexual or homosexual etc For some people genitals are a more important part of their sexuality than gender, and that should be understood and respected. Some people are really turned off by either vaginas or  penises idependently of the gender who has them.

I think the majority of people are generally mis-informed on what it means to be a trans-man,as you put it. If someone who is sexually attracted to female body parts reads being a trans man as "a man with a female body" to them it is still fair game? ( Not that we are animals to be hunted or anything but you get my drift) while offensive I find it hard to get mad at those people who assume this because it is purely ignorance. On the other hand if those same people ARE properly educated on trans-men and still fail to acknowledge that they are male I would find that HIGHLY offensive.  But, I do disagree on your "fully heterosexual" "fully homosexual" argument.

What if you identified as a straight male met someone on-line whom you fell in love with but they turned out to be a male, would that make you a homosexual? or vice-versa  I don't think so . As others before me have said, gender and sexuality are more then what can be defined into words, labels and categories. Even though we are taught to believe otherwise. I love my wife, would that love just disappear if she came out to me as a transsexual. No not at all, but that doesn't make me any less of a heterosexual man. I can see a man walking down the street and appreciate his looks without calling into question my sexual identity. Break outside of the box man :)

Quote from: Orange Creamsicle on November 14, 2013, 03:02:12 PM
One reason this situation may come up is that it is often massively hard to come out to people as gay.  Many people lose friends and family, jobs, etc.  They may even find it hard to accept it themselves, but eventually do.  Now imagine that one day they meet someone of the opposite gender but same birth sex and become attracted to that person.  It can be devastating to come to terms that that may mean that in fact they are not "really gay" after all and can be very hard to lose the label without feeling like they went through hell to not feel ashamed of their sexuality just to end up in what you may consider a "straight relationship."  I'm not saying you have to be in a relationship with one.  Or that you should be forced to feel any less of a man because someone calls themselves a lesbian and is attracted to you.  Just trying to give another perspective on the situation.

There's also a community there, and some lesbians-- all their friends come from that community and so on. I think your self identification is very important.

But I think some trans guys are very binary (not a criticism, just a statement) and could not date a lesbian. I could as long as that person saw me as male, but I do consider myself trans and not strictly male, but I know there are huge differences in how trans people see themselves.

It may not be for you, but try and open your mind as to why this might be okay for others.

I also see why this is offensive to you, but I think a lot of people are not strictly completely lesbian, they may be a little bi or even pan, so that they see trans men as ok. It's nothing against you personally. But you don't have to date that person either.



--Jay

Question to the trans women responding:

Would you be uncomfortable dating a gay man? I find that a lot of the time people say it's okay for trans men but when it comes to trans women people think "no way!"

Quote from: Orange Creamsicle on November 14, 2013, 06:41:28 PM
Brandon, you don't get to define peoples sexual orientation for them based solely on their actions.  Until you can read peoples minds, best to leave that up to the people themselves.

Well then they will just be lying to themselves, I'm sorry you guys don't seem to get why its offensive

Quote from: em444 on November 14, 2013, 07:05:04 PM
I understand how it can be very offensive and hurtful, but I think it's a lot more simple than that (sorry if I'm wrong though) I think that basically these women are lesbians not because they dislike masculinity but because they dislike penises, hence they can fall in love/have sex with anyone who doesn't have one. It also depends on the type of relationship: long term vs one night stand because there's romantic orientation vs sexual orientation to take into account. For example some people are bisexual but are heteroromantic or homoromantic meaning that they can only fall in love or have a serious relationship with one gender but wouldn't mind doing neither on the side. Some people are aromantic but are either heterosexual or homosexual etc For some people genitals are a more important part of their sexuality than gender, and that should be understood and respected. Some people are really turned off by either vaginas or  penises idependently of the gender who has them.

Thankyou I agree also

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 08:35:17 PM
Well then they will just be lying to themselves, I'm sorry you guys don't seem to get why its offensive

You have much to learn.  I see no point in continuing this discussion. 

Quote from: thatboyfresh on November 14, 2013, 07:07:49 PM
I think the majority of people are generally mis-informed on what it means to be a trans-man,as you put it. If someone who is sexually attracted to female body parts reads being a trans man as "a man with a female body" to them it is still fair game? ( Not that we are animals to be hunted or anything but you get my drift) while offensive I find it hard to get mad at those people who assume this because it is purely ignorance. On the other hand if those same people ARE properly educated on trans-men and still fail to acknowledge that they are male I would find that HIGHLY offensive.  But, I do disagree on your "fully heterosexual" "fully homosexual" argument.

What if you identified as a straight male met someone on-line whom you fell in love with but they turned out to be a male, would that make you a homosexual? or vice-versa  I don't think so . As others before me have said, gender and sexuality are more then what can be defined into words, labels and categories. Even though we are taught to believe otherwise. I love my wife, would that love just disappear if she came out to me as a transsexual. No not at all, but that doesn't make me any less of a heterosexual man. I can see a man walking down the street and appreciate his looks without calling into question my sexual identity. Break outside of the box man :)

Bro I know what i like, And it's definately women with out being to explicit, I don't agree with that argument either,  Honedtly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place, But other than that I agree with everything else

Quote from: Nygeel on November 14, 2013, 08:29:24 PM
Question to the trans women responding:

Would you be uncomfortable dating a gay man? I find that a lot of the time people say it's okay for trans men but when it comes to trans women people think "no way!"

Even though 'm a guy, I have actually heard alot of gay men say no to that because their women

I understand why you find it offensive Brandon. And I'd question why a lesbian would want to get with me, being a transman. However there are many transmen that were in a relationship with a lesbian before they came out, but still remain together and the partner still keeps their lesbian identity, they just happen to have fallen in love with a man. I believe that you can be 100% straight or gay but still fall for someone of the same/opposite sex, it just takes an incredibly special person.

Sexuality is different for everybody. I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong, but you asked for our opinions and when we give them to you you tell us we're wrong. When you do that it seriously makes me question why you start threads in the first place.

Quote from: aleon515 on November 14, 2013, 07:29:43 PM
There's also a community there, and some lesbians-- all their friends come from that community and so on. I think your self identification is very important.

But I think some trans guys are very binary (not a criticism, just a statement) and could not date a lesbian. I could as long as that person saw me as male, but I do consider myself trans and not strictly male, but I know there are huge differences in how trans people see themselves.

It may not be for you, but try and open your mind as to why this might be okay for others.

I also see why this is offensive to you, but I think a lot of people are not strictly completely lesbian, they may be a little bi or even pan, so that they see trans men as ok. It's nothing against you personally. But you don't have to date that person either.



--Jay

Well no bisexuals and pansexuals are just fine, I'm talking about the ones who identify as strictly lesbian

Quote from: Joe. on November 14, 2013, 08:44:37 PM
I understand why you find it offensive Brandon. And I'd question why a lesbian would want to get with me, being a transman. However there are many transmen that were in a relationship with a lesbian before they came out, but still remain together and the partner still keeps their lesbian identity, they just happen to have fallen in love with a man. I believe that you can be 100% straight or gay but still fall for someone of the same/opposite sex, it just takes an incredibly special person.

Sexuality is different for everybody. I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong, but you asked for our opinions and when we give them to you you tell us we're wrong. When you do that it seriously makes me question why you start threads in the first place.

I mean if you were with him before he identified as trans then that's different, I'm talking about the ones who say they find Cis men disgusting but date transmen, Or say I only date women and transmen, Were all men and Just because were transmen doesn't mean were not nor is everyguy cis or trans disgusting

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 08:50:02 PM

I mean if you were with him before he identified as trans then that's different, I'm talking about the ones who say they find Cis men disgusting but date transmen, Or say I only date women and transmen, Were all men and Just because were transmen doesn't mean were not nor is everyguy cis or trans disgusting

Thanks for clearing that up :)

Quote from: Joe. on November 14, 2013, 08:52:38 PM
Thanks for clearing that up :)

No problem Man!

I'm glad I didn't sound too crazy. the last thing you posted comes back to what I said: they probably find cis guys disgusting either because of their penis (and not because of being men/males, which hence would justify the trans man exception) or because they have the idea that maybe trans men have a less misogynist mentality or that they can understand women (or even people in general) better since they have had a broader range  of experiences in life, have probably faced discrimination etc which should make them more understanding.
As for sexuality, again, I'm gonna sound really crazy but I think nothing  is written in stone when it comes to that. If you think about it, the fact that we can be turned on by a sex toy, by ourselves (through masturbation) by inanimate objects, by vibrations, by thoughts, should mean that at least in principle we can receive pleasure from anyone no matter the gender. The sexual preference appears mostly because of boundaries and tastes that are learnt or formed during childhood (of course genes and  hormones may have a role in pushing people more towards one end than another). Human sexuality is incredibly fluid, the body itself is pansexual, what has a preference is the mind and minds are incredibly flexible and can easily change. If you count the heart and love and personality in the equation, it is even more complex (consider again asexual people who fall in love). So I guess I can see both sides of the issue here, but again I totally understand why it is offensive, but the thing is that deep down, no one is strictly straight or gay, they just have a very strong preference and haven't been through the kind of experiences that would be stronger than those preferences or that would change them,  but it's all kind of a spectrum with no real limits. All the gay people I know have liked at least once someone from the  opposite sex, at least before they realized they were gay, and most straight people I know have at least once questioned whether they could be bi or gay. Actually experimentation is considered normal even among the most traditional binary/cis/heteronormative heterosexuals. One day, there might be genderless or bigendered sex robots and I bet most people will like playing with those :P

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 08:50:02 PM

I mean if you were with him before he identified as trans then that's different, I'm talking about the ones who say they find Cis men disgusting but date transmen, Or say I only date women and transmen, Were all men and Just because were transmen doesn't mean were not nor is everyguy cis or trans disgusting

I'd tell them no, I'm not interested. :) But as others said, they might feel men are more misognyist or whatever. I think it's hard to feel like you would be respected in such a situation. I agree though that some people might not be as strictly lesbian (or whatever). But again, if you see yourself 100% male (which it sounds like you do), it's hard to feel like you would be okay in this situation.


--Jay

Quote from: em444 on November 14, 2013, 09:10:35 PM
I'm glad I didn't sound too crazy. the last thing you posted comes back to what I said: they probably find cis guys disgusting either because of their penis (and not because of being men/males, which hence would justify the trans man exception) or because they have the idea that maybe trans men have a less misogynist mentality or that they can understand women (or even people in general) better since they have had a broader range  of experiences in life, have probably faced discrimination etc which should make them more understanding.
As for sexuality, again, I'm gonna sound really crazy but I think nothing  is written in stone when it comes to that. If you think about it, the fact that we can be turned on by a sex toy, by ourselves (through masturbation) by inanimate objects, by vibrations, by thoughts, should mean that at least in principle we can receive pleasure from anyone no matter the gender. The sexual preference appears mostly because of boundaries and tastes that are learnt or formed during childhood (of course genes and  hormones may have a role in pushing people more towards one end than another). Human sexuality is incredibly fluid, the body itself is pansexual, what has a preference is the mind and minds are incredibly flexible and can easily change. If you count the heart and love and personality in the equation, it is even more complex (consider again asexual people who fall in love). So I guess I can see both sides of the issue here, but again I totally understand why it is offensive, but the thing is that deep down, no one is strictly straight or gay, they just have a very strong preference and haven't been through the kind of experiences that would be stronger than those preferences or that would change them,  but it's all kind of a spectrum with no real limits. All the gay people I know have liked at least once someone from the  opposite sex, at least before they realized they were gay, and most straight people I know have at least once questioned whether they could be bi or gay. Actually experimentation is considered normal even among the most traditional binary/cis/heteronormative heterosexuals. One day, there might be genderless or bigendered sex robots and I bet most people will like playing with those :P

I agree with everything else besides the fully straight fully gay thing, Everyone is not pan, Because I know I like one thing and one thing only and I don't think I have to explain what it is nor others,  I'm fully straighr, The thought of anything else disgust me, But if you in to that then so be it, I'm sure I'm not the only straight guy to agree, No offenc to gay males though just not my cup of tea

Quote from: aleon515 on November 14, 2013, 09:46:03 PM
I'd tell them no, I'm not interested. :) But as others said, they might feel men are more misognyist or whatever. I think it's hard to feel like you would be respected in such a situation. I agree though that some people might not be as strictly lesbian (or whatever). But again, if you see yourself 100% male (which it sounds like you do), it's hard to feel like you would be okay in this situation.


--Jay

I agree 100%

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 08:41:47 PM


Bro I know what i like, And it's definately women with out being to explicit, I don't agree with that argument either,  Honedtly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place, But other than that I agree with everything else

Exactly you know what YOU like that's not what I am disputing. It's what others like that seem to have you confused. For instance. Do you go out expecting to fall in love and be attracted to every female person you meet? People cant help what they are attracted to ( for the most part) yes we have preferences and our own ideals of what makes a perfect partner or who we want to be with. Just like someone who identifies as homosexual woman who has never dated a male might not go out "looking" for love or a relationship with a male but might happen to find it and develop it through friendship, co-work or random chance. Then maybe they realize that a heterosexual relationship isn't for them after all. Are you the one who get's to say that they are not a "homosexual" because they don't live to your standards STRICTLY adhering to the policy you explained as "Honestly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place"

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 08:43:10 PM
Even though 'm a guy, I have actually heard alot of gay men say no to that because their women

That wasn't the question he was asking though.  Of course a gay man wouldn't typically be interested in a trans woman.

Quote from: Brandon on November 14, 2013, 08:41:47 PM


Bro I know what i like, And it's definately women with out being to explicit, I don't agree with that argument either,  Honedtly if your truly a straight man you wouldn't even think that way about other men in the first place, But other than that I agree with everything else

Ever hear of pegging?

It might be a good idea to remember that there are underage members here, including the OP

Two factors I haven't seen addressed here:
1. There remains an enormous stigma on being bisexual in both the lesbian and gay communities.
Most lesbians and gays categorically refuse to date or have relationships with people they consider bisexual. They regard bisexuals as promiscuous, lying, deceiving heart breakers who are selfish in bed and will leave you when they decide to return to their boyfriend or girlfriend, or just go back to their two timing slutty bi ways.
I wish I was kidding. So there is a huge temptation to want to be in a relationship with a trans person but still avoid the bi stigma by any means necessary.
2. Romantic orientation and sexual orientation are not always the same. I have had plenty of gay guys fall for me, but they can't deal with the fact I intend to have bottom surgery. Many MTFs are in relationships with gay men when they come out as trans. Some stay together but most don't make it, often because the physical attraction stops with physical transition.
3. Both romantic and physical attraction depend on experience. They are not abstract. People decide what to call their orientation after they have been exposed to potential attractions, and usually trial relationships, and become confident in the pattern. Most people have not known trans men and trans women as potential partners and won't know if they are attracted romantically or sexually until they are.
4. It is very common for people's horizons to expand after being close enough to a trans person who is their type romantically and/or sexually. If we deny the possibility of lesbians or gays (in the sense of almost never attracted to opposite sex cisgender people) being attracted to the opposite sex transgender individual, then we also negate the experience of straight people (in the sense of almost never being attracted to same sex cisgender people) who find themselves attracted to same sex trabsgender individuals. And we may negate the experiences of trans* people who discover they are also trans-only bisexual.
There isn't a word for trans-only bisexual, but maybe there should be.

I dated and almost married a trans man this year. He was the most essentially male person I have ever known. I would absolutely consider spending my life with a man who is trans.
Being with him was the catalyst for going from "i might be bi" to "i know i am bi".
But I understand why a woman could love a trans man while seeing him as a man, even though she can't stand straight cis guys, and so would keep calling herself a lesbian to avoid her inner biphobia and external biphobia.

As pointed out by MadelineB, Biphobia is the underlying reason, IMO. Being seen as bisexual, especially in LGBT community, is like a cop out. Reaping the best benefits of being straight and gay while avoiding the oppression and discrimination gays face. I agree it sounds like self proclaimed lesbians who date transguys are kidding themselves. Why not ask her 'If you are solely attracted to women, why are you attracted to me? Do you see me as a woman and not a man?". Hopefully they'll realise their fallacy.

As for the 'best of both worlds' comments, unfortunately this is something you'll come across a lot in the people who are interested in us, whether they're straight, bi or gay. Barring surgeries, we may look like men but are slightly different, and these differences play a part in how we are viewed by others.

Quote from: yaka on November 15, 2013, 01:58:35 AM
As pointed out by MadelineB, Biphobia is the underlying reason, IMO. Being seen as bisexual, especially in LGBT community, is like a cop out. Reaping the best benefits of being straight and gay while avoiding the oppression and discrimination gays face. I agree it sounds like self proclaimed lesbians who date transguys are kidding themselves. Why not ask her 'If you are solely attracted to women, why are you attracted to me? Do you see me as a woman and not a man?". Hopefully they'll realise their fallacy.

As for the 'best of both worlds' comments, unfortunately this is something you'll come across a lot in the people who are interested in us, whether they're straight, bi or gay. Barring surgeries, we may look like men but are slightly different, and these differences play a part in how we are viewed by others.

I agree good point

Seconding the biphobia theory and then some. Lesbians tend to look at trans men as "safe" territory, thinking that someone born with female parts/living a female life will be more sensitive to their issues while adding the benefits of looking straight to social circles etc. A lot of these women are just ignorant about trans people and lack the understanding that everyone has a unique experience/view on being trans etc, hence singling out trans men while rebuffing trans women. Parts(or assumed parts) and how they work play a big role in this, as well. There's just this big assumption that all trans men have vaginas and breasts and that they're just playing dress up and vice versa for trans women. If you're attracted to certain parts, and you assume that someone you might find attractive has them, you might pursue them regardless of what they say or feel. It's...an issue I find to be complicated and hard to describe.

That being said, I do find it offensive when lesbians single out trans men as a special gender and chase them for dating, especially while rebuffing trans women and bashing guys who have medically transitioned etc. Thankfully, I've not had this happen to me, but I've seen other people get "chased" and it is unnerving.

What I have to disagree with, though, is disputing one's sexuality based on what they find pleasurable in the bedroom and stating that straight men/women cannot have successful relationships with trans people and still be straight. I know plenty of straight dudes that like pegging/having their girlfriends top them in the bedroom sometimes. And there are lesbians who really enjoy penetration etc. The sexual act itself does not determine the person you're attracted to, kiddo. If you're not keen on ~the buttsex~ or any other form of penetration, don't do it. You know what you like, and that's what's important. Just don't pin your preferences on other people and try to relabel their sexuality. Just don't.

And then there are also many successful relationships between cis and trans people. Trans men are men, and trans women are women. No dispute there. I tend to view it like this: even cis people have varied bodies. If a straight chick gets to know a trans dude and he comes out to her when she expresses interest and it doesn't put her off, it doesn't make her bisexual or pansexual. Only she can determine that for herself. She's gotten to know this guy, she likes him. Hell, maybe she loves him and views him as a normal human being who isn't just his parts. Is there really anything wrong with that?

Quote from: Brandon on November 13, 2013, 08:43:25 PM
I only date straight women and bi women

No fully straight person would fall in love with same sex, No fully homosexual person would fall in love with the opposite sex, Chances are you were never hetero/gay from the start

You seem to have somewhat contradicted yourself. If the strict "attraction rules" you say really do apply, then without bottom surgery how would you be able to date someone who identifies as "straight" seeing as there is no penis?

Chances are if she is attracted to strictly people with penises she wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't have one. If she is attracted to someone without a penis "by strict social standards" she wouldn't be able to still label herself as straight. Another example why sometimes labels don't strictly adhere to everyone and that sexuality can be fluid, that sex and gender can be two separate things when it comes to be attracted to someone. The same as it is when we figure out were trans, sex and gender can be separate even if it doesn't add up to what "social standards" believe it to be

Another reason: Lesbians might think that trans guys would be more sympathetic and less like jerks than other guys, since they have experienced life as they other gender. We are all different, of course, I like to think I'm not a jerk, but tbh, some trans guys are jerks. :) Of course, most of us have had an odd experience of never really fitting into or being the gender we were supposedly born into.

--Jay

I was actually told what I was by a lesbian teacher's aide in the 10th. She'd thought I was lesbian (*sigh*). When I denied it (I in fact being Asexual or rather Non-Sexual to the hilt), then she told me I must be transsexual (I didn't know what that was before). And then she further clarified that in general, gays/lesbians and transsexuals did not like each other very much because they viewed us as the same but with conflicting views or interpretations. As if we're simply gay but in such even disgusted denial we go through reassignment to escape it... I of course disagree because that is simply and absolutely not true. We are also not the same (unless gay/lesbian too, I'll hasten to clarify). And being Asexual/Non-Sexual, that's an entirely objective POV.

As already mentioned, sexual orientation has nothing at all to do with gender identity. But it does just go to show that most people will never have occasion to personally figure that out for themselves. The exhausting majority of people are not even aware of their gender identity, so long as it doesn't clash with themselves in every way possible like it regrettably does for all of us, they're blissfully and totally unaware of its existence if everything's a matching suit of aces.

Some people are just really ignorant and need a special dismissal for their errors. They don't understand and so really they should not be discussing matters they know nothing about (but in general, humans are dumb creatures as a whole. We think we know everything when we really know next to nothing. Enter in all of the messed up ->-bleeped-<-e that happens in this world because of our 'supreme intelligence'.... well, sorry to say, it's because of that we're the cause not the solution to this mess of a world).

If I were sexual-anything, I would be highly affronted to be accepted as a partner simply because "you're not technically a man"... no matter what small degree of truth that would retain, it would deeply offend me. Like saying because a lesbian undoubtedly has had PIV even just once before, they're not actually lesbian. That kind of blatant ignorance cuts both ways, babe.

Quote from: brayden4 on November 15, 2013, 11:49:25 AM

You seem to have somewhat contradicted yourself. If the strict "attraction rules" you say really do apply, then without bottom surgery how would you be able to date someone who identifies as "straight" seeing as there is no penis?

Chances are if she is attracted to strictly people with penises she wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't have one. If she is attracted to someone without a penis "by strict social standards" she wouldn't be able to still label herself as straight. Another example why sometimes labels don't strictly adhere to everyone and that sexuality can be fluid, that sex and gender can be two separate things when it comes to be attracted to someone. The same as it is when we figure out were trans, sex and gender can be separate even if it doesn't add up to what "social standards" believe it to be

If a straight girl dates me shes still straight its not like I'm having sex right know anyways, I'm to uncomfortable with that, I have had straight girls like me, I am a dude, If anything your trying to turn this around back on me, And FYI a clitoris is basically a penis so your point

Quote from: Magnus on November 15, 2013, 03:29:03 PM
I was actually told what I was by a lesbian teacher's aide in the 10th. She'd thought I was lesbian (*sigh*). When I denied it (I in fact being Asexual or rather Non-Sexual to the hilt), then she told me I must be transsexual (I didn't know what that was before). And then she further clarified that in general, gays/lesbians and transsexuals did not like each other very much because they viewed us as the same but with conflicting views or interpretations. As if we're simply gay but in such even disgusted denial we go through reassignment to escape it... I of course disagree because that is simply and absolutely not true. We are also not the same (unless gay/lesbian too, I'll hasten to clarify). And being Asexual/Non-Sexual, that's an entirely objective POV.

As already mentioned, sexual orientation has nothing at all to do with gender identity. But it does just go to show that most people will never have occasion to personally figure that out for themselves. The exhausting majority of people are not even aware of their gender identity, so long as it doesn't clash with themselves in every way possible like it regrettably does for all of us, they're blissfully and totally unaware of its existence if everything's a matching suit of aces.

Some people are just really ignorant and need a special dismissal for their errors. They don't understand and so really they should not be discussing matters they know nothing about (but in general, humans are dumb creatures as a whole. We think we know everything when we really know next to nothing. Enter in all of the messed up ->-bleeped-<-e that happens in this world because of our 'supreme intelligence'.... well, sorry to say, it's because of that we're the cause not the solution to this mess of a world).

If I were sexual-anything, I would be highly affronted to be accepted as a partner simply because "you're not technically a man"... no matter what small degree of truth that would retain, it would deeply offend me. Like saying because a lesbian undoubtedly has had PIV even just once before, they're not actually lesbian. That kind of blatant ignorance cuts both w

ays,



I agree

Quote from: brayden4 on November 15, 2013, 11:49:25 AM

You seem to have somewhat contradicted yourself. If the strict "attraction rules" you say really do apply, then without bottom surgery how would you be able to date someone who identifies as "straight" seeing as there is no penis?

Chances are if she is attracted to strictly people with penises she wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't have one. If she is attracted to someone without a penis "by strict social standards" she wouldn't be able to still label herself as straight. Another example why sometimes labels don't strictly adhere to everyone and that sexuality can be fluid, that sex and gender can be two separate things when it comes to be attracted to someone. The same as it is when we figure out were trans, sex and gender can be separate even if it doesn't add up to what "social standards" believe it to be

And I don't think lesbians who use strap ons are really les, That's a straight thing that's a mans job

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 03:29:25 PM
If a straight girl dates me shes still straight its not like I'm having sex right know anyways, I'm to uncomfortable with that, I have had straight girls like me, I am a dude, If anything your trying to turn this around back on me, And FYI a clitoris is basically a penis so your point

My point what? I've taken biology, I know that all sexual organs are made of the same material, but doesn't mean that every ciswoman has a penis either.
And if you say that a straight person can date a transman (pre-op) and still be labeled as straight, then I pretty much rest my case, a lesbian can also date a transman and still be labeled as lesbian.

Basically, people can label themselves as what they feel comfortable as despite what anyone else thinks they should be dating based off said label. They don't need people telling them who they can date based on what label they feel more comfortable with. Labels don't matter, were all human

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 03:35:43 PM


And I don't think lesbians who use strap ons are really les, That's a straight thing that's a mans job

It's not up to you to decide how someone can label themselves for how they like to get their rocks off, its none of your business what they do behind closed doors

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 03:35:43 PM


And I don't think lesbians who use strap ons are really les, That's a straight thing that's a mans job

Women who like women are lesbians.  How they use their parts and what toys they add in there has nothing to do with their sexuality.  That's like saying you can't possibly be a man because you don't have a penis to do the "man's job".

The entire topic saddens me.  All I can say, Brandon, is never lock the door on love.  We transgenders are, as a group, generally lonely people.  And when we find loving friends - and it doesn't matter what color, creed, gender, sex, or orientation - it is best to do all we can keep them.

You are destined to be alone.  It breaks my heart.

Quote from: brayden4 on November 15, 2013, 03:47:59 PM
My point what? I've taken biology, I know that all sexual organs are made of the same material, but doesn't mean that every ciswoman has a penis either.
And if you say that a straight person can date a transman (pre-op) and still be labeled as straight, then I pretty much rest my case, a lesbian can also date a transman and still be labeled as lesbian.

Basically, people can label themselves as what they feel comfortable as despite what anyone else thinks they should be dating based off said label. They don't need people telling them who they can date based on what label they feel more comfortable with. Labels don't matter, were all human

No I don't think you don't understand why I find it offensive, You obviously don't consider yourself 100% man if a straight woman dates me she's still straight doesn't the brain make males males, A penis is just a sexual characteristing of a male, Their is no real biological difference between a penis or clitoris, All I'm sayin is son't leabians date women not men

Quote from: Ludwig.von.Mises on November 15, 2013, 04:23:08 PM
The entire topic saddens me.  All I can say, Brandon, is never lock the door on love.  We transgenders are, as a group, generally lonely people.  And when we find loving friends - and it doesn't matter what color, creed, gender, sex, or orientation - it is best to do all we can keep them.

You are destined to be alone.  It breaks my heart.

I'm not gonna be alone, I just won't date a lesbian, Your the reson no one takes us seriously, If you feel your a man and know why not go for bi or straight women

All I'm saying is being trans is already confusing enough so why add on to it, Think about your suppose to be a so called man but your dating lesbians or your suppose be 100% lesbian who dates men, That's again adding on to the confusion

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 04:59:47 PM
No I don't think you don't understand why I find it offensive, You obviously don't consider yourself 100% man if a straight woman dates me she's still straight doesn't the brain make males males, A penis is just a sexual characteristing of a male, Their is no real biological difference between a penis or clitoris, All I'm sayin is son't leabians date women not men

Honestly I don't care who you date, I just don't understand why you care so much who someone else dates based on their label. But just to throw it out there someone may label themselves as lesbian based on what "part" they prefer rather than what "gender" they prefer. And I'm not even gonna comment too much on you saying I'm not man because obviously your ignorance is showing through anyways, I don't have to prove much of a point against you.

That's actually one of the reasons my peers started to take me seriously, And it made since that I wouldn't date a lesbian, Its like the pregnant man, My cousin doesn't take transmen seriously for that reason, I personally agree a man shouldn't carry a baby same thing

Quote from: brayden4 on November 15, 2013, 05:12:43 PM
Honestly I don't care who you date, I just don't understand why you care so much who someone else dates based on their label. But just to throw it out there someone may label themselves as lesbian based on what "part" they prefer rather than what "gender" they prefer. And I'm not even gonna comment too much on you saying I'm not man because obviously your ignorance is showing through anyways, I don't have to prove much of a point against you.
[/quote


You don't get it and probally never will but thats ok

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 05:13:48 PM
That's actually one of the reasons my peers started to take me seriously, And it made since that I wouldn't date a lesbian, Its like the pregnant man, My cousin doesn't take transmen seriously for that reason, I personally agree a man shouldn't carry a baby same thing

I can agree with you on the baby thing, it can be very confusing for some and even trip people out at times, seeing man and then looking down at a pregnant belly. Personally it's not something I would do but a man will do what he thinks is best for his family and if getting pregnant to start a family is what the couple thinks is best for them, then who am I to judge their decision

As a cis woman who identified as a lesbian in the past and has been in a WONDERFUL relationship with a FTM for the past 4 years.. I don't think ruling out women who identify as lesbians is fair at all because you never know when someone is going to re-evaluate their own identity.. I'm not even sure why labels matter at all..no one can help who they fall in love with..and if you are lucky enough to find love with someone who gets you and tries to understand everything about you and be your best friend then that's pretty amazing.. a label shouldn't classify weither they get a chance or not because you could honestly be passing up your soul-mate. At the end of the day NO relationship is perfect and as years go by people change..everyone changes you never truly stop growing and learning about yourself and the person your with.. its about finding that one person who is willing to grow with you.

Quote from: brit91 on November 15, 2013, 06:01:02 PM
As a cis woman who identified as a lesbian in the past and has been in a WONDERFUL relationship with a FTM for the past 4 years.. I don't think ruling out women who identify as lesbians is fair at all because you never know when someone is going to re-evaluate their own identity.. I'm not even sure why labels matter at all..no one can help who they fall in love with..and if you are lucky enough to find love with someone who gets you and tries to understand everything about you and be your best friend then that's pretty amazing.. a label shouldn't classify weither they get a chance or not because you could honestly be passing up your soul-mate. At the end of the day NO relationship is perfect and as years go by people change..everyone changes you never truly stop growing and learning about yourself and the person your with.. its about finding that one person who is willing to grow with you.

Your not getting why I find it offensive though no I will not date a lesbian if you don't like men don't hit on me same for gay guys, Know the girls can find me attractive but anything past that uh no..... I will pass

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 06:15:01 PM


Your not getting why I find it offensive though no I will not date a lesbian if you don't like men don't hit on me same for gay guys, Know the girls can find me attractive but anything past that uh no..... I will pass

I understand what your saying and why you feel its offensive however my point is that if a FTM were to meet a really nice girl who identified as lesbian at first and she got to know them for who they are as a person and gay/straight/trans/bi wasn't even a issue then she shouldn't get kicked to the curb because we all continue to grow throughout our lives and we are constantly learning new things about ourselves.. Just because someone who identified as lesbian falls for a trans guy doesn't mean the trans guy is any less of a man for giving her a chance.Throughout life and especially in the LGBT community we see so many outsiders who are closed minded and bring so much judgement without getting to know us for who we are as human beings..It's like if someone hears "you like men and your a guy" they instantly turn u away for a job or a friendship pretty much anything and to judge within our community is sad. Basically we all bleed the same way.. love is love and we are all people that should not be over-looked.

Quote from: brit91 on November 15, 2013, 06:33:13 PM
I understand what your saying and why you feel its offensive however my point is that if a FTM were to meet a really nice girl who identified as lesbian at first and she got to know them for who they are as a person and gay/straight/trans/bi wasn't even a issue then she shouldn't get kicked to the curb because we all continue to grow throughout our lives and we are constantly learning new things about ourselves.. Just because someone who identified as lesbian falls for a trans guy doesn't mean the trans guy is any less of a man for giving her a chance.Throughout life and especially in the LGBT community we see so many outsiders who are closed minded and bring so much judgement without getting to know us for who we are as human beings..It's like if someone hears "you like men and your a guy" they instantly turn u away for a job or a friendship pretty much anything and to judge within our community is sad. Basically we all bleed the same way.. love is love and we are all people that should not be over-looked.

If a lesbian dates a transman and she knows hes trans your not respecting his idenity point blank period!  Actions speak louder than I still see you as man, If your not showing then no.....

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 06:56:49 PM


If a lesbian dates a transman and she knows hes trans your not respecting his idenity point blank period!  Actions speak louder than I still see you as man, If your not showing then no.....

Respect, "a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements."  you are holding on way to tight to labels and not seeing the big mature picture. If someone treats you right,loves you unconditionally and never makes you feel like less of a person then that is RESPECT. It has nothing to do with labels.

Quote from: brit91 on November 15, 2013, 07:10:05 PM
Respect, "a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements."  you are holding on way to tight to labels and not seeing the big mature picture. If someone treats you right,loves you unconditionally and never makes you feel like less of a person then that is RESPECT. It has nothing to do with labels.

Your not getting it so I'm done

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 06:56:49 PM


If a lesbian dates a transman and she knows hes trans your not respecting his idenity point blank period!  Actions speak louder than I still see you as man, If your not showing then no.....

Not really.  If a lesbian is in a relationship with a trans man because she loves him as a person but still views him as a man, that's one thing.  If she was in a relationship with him prior to his transition and stayed with him, that's one thing.  Disrespect would come when a lesbian actively seeks out a trans man but would not consider dating a cis man. 

Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on November 15, 2013, 07:29:05 PM
Not really.  If a lesbian is in a relationship with a trans man because she loves him as a person but still views him as a man, that's one thing.  If she was in a relationship with him prior to his transition and stayed with him, that's one thing.  Disrespect would come when a lesbian actively seeks out a trans man but would not consider dating a cis man.

That's what I was talking about :-\

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 07:46:17 PM

That's what I was talking about :-\

Wording means so much.  You said

Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2013, 06:56:49 PM


If a lesbian dates a transman and she knows hes trans your not respecting his idenity point blank period!  Actions speak louder than I still see you as man, If your not showing then no.....

Think about how that sounds.  It sounds as if a lesbian dates a trans man, no matter what the circumstances, she's in the wrong and is being disrespectful.

What you meant was that if a lesbian actively seeks out trans men, while at the same time will not consider cis men, she's being disrespectful.