Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi girls, I decided to post this about Dr Suporn's technique, I had my surgery in March of this year, and for the most part I am happy, it looks great, I have full sensation, unfortunately I had some complications resulting I my opening gradually shrinking, now I want to stress I am the 1%.

But after one more painfully difficult dilation, I have given up, I will be a woman without a vagina, I've never had penetrative sex and never will.  I didn't come to this decision lightly but over 9 months on pain staking perseverance, I've tried everything, to no avail, I've spent over $500 in dilators and toys alone.  Today marks a hard decision but I am giving up on my opening, it will close and that will be the end of it, if quadriplegic people can have a sex life, I certainly can, I experienced multiple climaxes without penetration before surgery, and could even get there through meditation.  Life changes and sometimes things don't work out.

I'm not saying don't get surgery, far from it, given the chance would I do it again? No, but that's me and I have my reasons, if you need it to feel whole, or even want it, them go for it, but be aware, research and know what will happen if it doesn't work out, figure out how you will feel if this happens.  I'm available to talk if you want detailed info or a chat, even photos of healing, I try to help

I am sorry to hear of your complications, Sarah.  Is there no possibility of a revision that might alleviate your narrowing problem?

Hi Jamie, I've already had a revision and while I could have others I just want to put it behind me and move on with my life.  I've made the decision to embrace the lemons and make lemonade.  Perhaps one day I will feel different, I just want others to know that even though the system show a slim chance of complications, everyone will have something, and some worse than others, just be prepared that's all

Very sorry to hear of your situation, it must have been disappointing to have struggled so much, and then to realize it's time to accept it and move on...*hugs*

Quotebut be aware, research and know what will happen if it doesn't work out, figure out how you will feel if this happens.

Very wise to consider the "what ifs" and the implications. Is the outside otherwise healthy and acceptable? All healed there?

I'd like to know more, if you feel able to tell us, about what exactly happened. As a Suporn girl myself, I know how painful and rigorous that first six months of dilation can be! I had something dilating me literally three times a day for an hour or more each....plus clean up and prep, I was at an easy six hours of fiddling with what amounts to be a surgical wound site for a few months. But I can't quite understand the mechanism by which it "shrank" if you maintained any kind of good dilation schedule... as in, my earring hole won't shrink if I keep something in there often enough kinda thing.... I don't mean to minimize, just understand, and possible you can help others as well. Bowel revision is always a possibility, too. My condolences either way.

I would just also add that I went back for a cosmetic revision also... it was arranged with no fuss. I was worried it would be a huge deal like the original surgery was, but an hour under local fixed labial asymmetry and ureter aiming issues lol... Some things can't be done in one stage perfectly, but since this stuff was purely superficial stitching, I was up and about the next day as though nothing had happened, and even split to have a little fun in bangkok the week after. Anyway, sorry for your problems, but I'd say, you paid for "free revisions" if needed. Once a year has gone by (swelling really does take that long to go all the way down sometimes), see if you can't wrap a little thai vacation into your life at some point. A few weeks in the sun and then poke your head into chonburi for a few days? Good luck either way...

You know your the second suporn gal I know that for whatever reason no longer have a vagina. The first is a very good friend of mine. She is lesbian and I guess didn't care about having the vag.

The other thing about suporn was when I went to Thailand in 08 the cost of his surgery was about the same as having it done in the states. There was no chance in hell I would have flown to Thailand to pay the same price as in the states!!!!!!
Needless to say I did not pick him!

Katie

Quote from: Yasmine on January 18, 2014, 10:27:59 AM

I had srs by Suporn too, last year. I don't have problems with dilating and I do have sex, but I can't say that I'm very pleased with how things look. I guess a revision could partly solve that. My sensitivity, well, it's not what I expected or hoped for. I can orgasm, but it isn't easy. My libido and sensitivity still seem to come and go.

This is typical female problem, it has nothing to do witn Suporn's technique. 10 to 15 % of biological girls will never have orgasms. Perhaps you should read again the booklet you got at your post-op class about orgasms and visit also the link mentioned in this booklet.

Anyway, I am a Suporn girl too, 9 weeks post-op. Dilating is a hassle but feasable. I am very happy with Suporn. Everything is still very swollen. Sometimes, people do have wrong expections of Suporn. They wanna a kind of designer vagina but for this, Chonburi is the wrong address.

Suporn remains the best SRS surgeon in the world, but he's not perfect.

You know Laura, I got to ask you how is it you have the ability to say one doctor is the best in the world?

I guess that sort of crap really annoys me because it is so absurd. I would never say such a thing. I don't know about you but I have had the surgery. I have nothing to complain about. I am happy with my doctor and finally I don't think I have ever said who my doctor is nor have I ever promoted one doctor over the other.

Quote from: LauraGirl on January 23, 2014, 02:58:44 AM
Suporn remains the best SRS surgeon in the world, but he's not perfect.

This statement is a joke.. Quite simply because no one surgeon is the perfect choice for every patient.

Hey GendrKweer,

Is there some'thing' which will dilate us? I've often wondered about a dilating machine for the drudgery.

Quote from: GendrKweer on December 04, 2013, 12:24:10 AM
...I had something dilating me literally three times a day for an hour or more each....

Haha I'm sure one could be rigged up! :)

'Cough' boyfriend.

Just joking I know  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I am so sorry about your experience. I am getting now paranoid about my vagina because it is also non inversion one... But compared to Suporn, my doctor has less rough recovery and much less revisions.... What is suporn saying what is the reason for you losing your vagina?

Quote from: swan on January 28, 2014, 09:40:23 AM
I am so sorry about your experience. I am getting now paranoid about my vagina because it is also non inversion one... But compared to Suporn, my doctor has less rough recovery and much less revisions.... What is suporn saying what is the reason for you losing your vagina?

If you don't mind me asking...who did you use for your procedure?

Dr Chettawut

Quote from: swan on January 28, 2014, 09:40:23 AM
I am so sorry about your experience. I am getting now paranoid about my vagina because it is also non inversion one... But compared to Suporn, my doctor has less rough recovery and much less revisions.... What is suporn saying what is the reason for you losing your vagina?

I think you'd know pretty much right away if you were going to experience similar problems. It seems some are, unfortunately, literally fated for this to happen to them. It must be a combination of genetics and technique that triggers such an undesirable healing process to occur. Maybe in future, there will be a test to determine those who will be at risk. I don't know, but it does seem to happen more to those who have had the non-penile inversion technique.

Of course, with penile inversion it is a flap and it is less likely to be lost, with non inversion it is a graft and the risk is huge for this to happen. This was one of my worries but my doctor assured me that it has never happened in his practice... Who knows about that....

This post made me think a lot and when I think about it I think that the skin graft would be the worse choice over skin flap. I wonder why so many thai doctors prefer the graft over the flap, when from the canadian team and mcghin we saw that with inversion only perfect cosmetics and sensations can be achieved.

Quote from: swan on January 31, 2014, 04:35:39 PM
Of course, with penile inversion it is a flap and it is less likely to be lost, with non inversion it is a graft and the risk is huge for this to happen. This was one of my worries but my doctor assured me that it has never happened in his practice... Who knows about that....

Suporn's scrotal inversion is a flap too. In fact, it's called the Chonburi Flap (Suporn's wiki page), and it's never disconnected from the nervous system. I believe this is how he is generally able to provide such orgasmic tissue down there. This flap also has his 'extra sensate area' on the end of it (which, I believe is affixed to the area just below the clitoris and around the urethra?), which is conserved from glans tissue left over from the construction of the neo-clitoris. Of course not all cases are absolute and there's obviously exceptions to these cases, depending on a variety of things.

No, the so called Chonbri flap refers to how the gans of the penis is used to form the clitoris, part of the inner wall of the labia minora and also line the floor of the vulva (like a lotus flower). It's not a unique procedure as most of the other Thai surgeons do exactly the same thing If you do an internet trawl for a pedicled flap neo-clitoris you will find a medical research paper from a European clinic carrying out the same procedure at the time that Suporn first "invented" it.  The scrotal graft in question is used to line the wall of the neovagina at the end of a very short penile inversion (short because nearly all of the penile skin is used on the outside). There is no such thing as a purely non inversion technique its just that the inversion doesn't extend any distance beyond the muscle. Where Suporns technique is unique is that after scraping the scrotal skin to remove the hair follicles, he passes it through a machine that cuts slits in it. The skin can then be stretched into a mesh in order to line the vaginal cavity, thus providing additional depth. The draw back with this method is that the graft is more susceptible necrosis and to tightening because of the formation of scar tissue. Hence Suporns insistence that patients stay longer in Thailand than anybody else and also his dilation programme

From what I understood Dr Bowers uses the very same technique in the USA

Quote from: Susan T on February 08, 2014, 11:18:37 AM
No, the so called Chonbri flap refers to how the gans of the penis is used to form the clitoris, part of the inner wall of the labia minora and also line the floor of the vulva (like a lotus flower). It's not a unique procedure as most of the other Thai surgeons do exactly the same thing If you do an internet trawl for a pedicled flap neo-clitoris you will find a medical research paper from a European clinic carrying out the same procedure at the time that Suporn first "invented" it.  The scrotal graft in question is used to line the wall of the neovagina at the end of a very short penile inversion (short because nearly all of the penile skin is used on the outside). There is no such thing as a purely non inversion technique its just that the inversion doesn't extend any distance beyond the muscle. Where Suporns technique is unique is that after scraping the scrotal skin to remove the hair follicles, he passes it through a machine that cuts slits in it. The skin can then be stretched into a mesh in order to line the vaginal cavity, thus providing additional depth. The draw back with this method is that the graft is more susceptible necrosis and to tightening because of the formation of scar tissue. Hence Suporns insistence that patients stay longer in Thailand than anybody else and also his dilation program.

That's an awesome description of this method and more than I could posit. Thanks to Susan T for the greater specificity on this Chonburi Flap technique. I've known he created the labia skin (or part of it?) from the shaft skin. I've noticed the "mesh" scrotal skin ~ he has a picture on his site of it..I wondered how the mesh was created.

And sorry Swan, I mistakenly referred to Suporn's scrotal graft as a flap. I got derailed, talking about the dorsal flap part, which I know is a different part of the surgery. So yes...that scrotal graft is a bear. I worry about fighting any excessive scarring in there. I know that with my type of skin, I am much less prone to Keloid scarring (granulation), but I still wonder about how much I'll have, and don't look forward to any possibility of it.

I can understand just why the propensity for scarring much easier with his method, now too. But Susan T, that part is true, right?...this Chonburi Flap tissue is never disconnected from the dorsal nerve during the surgery? Because that's a big issue to me..the NON disconnection of the dorsal nervous line to the glans (and that extra sensate area he arranges, that GG's are not born with).

Incidentally, I see (pics) on the Bowers site that the scars are rather to the 'outside' of the labia and folks are advised to grow a little pubic hair over it, and so I wonder: Does the little partial penile inversion Suporn does...put the scars inside canal a little bit, and hidden from casual inspection/view?

The two or three Suporn girls I've interviewed have said they have no visible scarring about the labia. I've asked and re-asked (even looked for myself ). Same answer each time...and I wonder just why. Sophie (Suporn's mouth piece ~ seems you never get to actually communicate with Suporn until you meet him, which sucks, and is a different discussion altogether), says with any surgery, there's always scarring..but with Suporn, it's going to be very difficult to see. At that point, I'd wondered just what scarring she referred to: The usual Thai procedure, where they DON'T need any thigh fold tissue..or the scars from the harvesting of the thigh fold tissue from the thigh fold areas when they DO need thigh fold tissue (I'm told by Sophie that he never uses colon grafts)....it was just not clear in her answers to me. She said there's always visible scars..'with any surgeon'. But the girls I asked (all personal, local friends)..said 'none visible'. But in their cases..they also didn't need thigh fold donor tissue harvested.

Where are the Suporn's labia scars finally located? Inside? Outside? Can anyone advise?

And yes, regarding Swan's question, does Bowers use this same Suporn technique now? Can anyone speak to this?

Additionally, anyone who can "really" shed light on these methods (without vague hearsay and opinion) would be encouraged to post here. I would really like to get a handle on the specific technique differences, and their various facets. Since I'm most interested in non penile inversion, I've been researching and flushing out the details of the Thai techniques as I can. In cases where I'm not sure, I'll always try to put the words "I believe" in my post, and with a question mark by it, to encourage correction and clarification.

I still believe Susan's is the best place on the net for finding this information discussed by so many who actually know or have been there. What an awesome resource. Thanks to the 'other Susan' for creating such a wonderful place to get it. :)

Most of the surgeons don't disconnect the glans from the nerves when creating the neoclitoris. It is not something only suporn does. I am not sure about the scars but as I have had an in person consultation with Suporn, I think you will have the same scars like with any other surgeon. Conburi flap is nothing specific but that he leaves the entire penis buried under the skin which causes serious problems with well endowed patients. I personally don't think the "conburi flap" is needed in order to be orgasmic.... Most of the doctors would remove everything but the nerves and a part of the glans and I think that would be the best way to do it... Only my believe and it doesn't have to be true...

There will be scarring but scars will be very fine and hidden within natural folds do you won't see them unless you are looking very hard. I don't think that Suporn fails to remove any less erectile tissue than anybody else, there will be some left behind with every technique but it shouldnt be enough to restrict vaginal function. It can be felt but is not particularly visible. Removal of excess erectile tissue is a common revision though as surgeons have to make a judgement on how much to remove while it is flaccid.

Livinit, if you decide to go to Suporn you will be in the hands of a gifted surgeon. However, he is not the only gifted surgeon in Thailand he just has a better publicity machine. He is also twice the price of anybody else and in my view that cost cannot be justified. Take a look at Chetawutt, Preecha (PAI), or Kamol to name but a few. You will achieve the same result (with very slight variations) at a fraction of the cost and in the case of PAI, with superior medical facilities.