Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Just curious.

I had to sit through family and friends going on about her/she/your daughter for like an hour last week. The whole time I just practiced not hearing what was said.

Really, if you're not transitioning (for whatever reason), you kind of do have to find a way to deal with it on your own. Especially if you're not "out". It's not like you can blame people if it happens, but it can be nonetheless disconcerting, depressing, annoying, etc.

I dunno , for me its really bad , everytime people call me with male pronouns I get this sudden feeling of despair,,,
I try not to think about it a lot ,  but i dont know for how much longer Ill be able to stand it...

It is one of the major reasons I always preferred to live alone. I don't do even family get togethers unless I have a quick escape route planned.

I put "meh whatever" since its no ones fault, just have to accept it. It would be problematic if i was on t or was trying really hard to pass without it. Right now, it just doesn't really matter much to me to let it affect me.

For me, the pronoun situation is similar to my experience of dysphoria more generally. Sometimes being labelled with male pronouns is like water off a duck's back - not my preference, but whatever. Other times, however, each 'he' and 'him' carries the sound of a hammer slamming one more nail into the coffin of life.

It's another strange situation in an admittedly strange situation. I have on occasion been labelled with female pronouns - and it has felt great. But I do understand why this doesn't happen all that often. I have also looked into more gender neutral terms, but find very little resonance there.

So where, then, does this leave me?

Like I said: another strange situation in an admittedly strange situation. 

I picked "It's annoying but I can deal with it".  I don't expect people to see me as a man when I'm clearly not presenting as one, but at the same time, when I do hear people call me "she, her, mam, daughter, sister, etc." it feels like I'm gently being poked with a toothpick.  It doesn't hurt but it can get a little annoying after a while.  I think the toothpick jabs go in a bit deeper when it's family misgendering me, simply because they know me and they know that I have gender issues, even if I don't frequently discuss them.  I still can't blame them for referring to me with female pronouns though since I'm not actively transitioning.

This drives me crazy more then anything in the world. I pass about 80% of the time....until my legal name comes up. It outs me every time and I can't say anything. People will generally assume he until I hand them my credit card or license then..game over. None of my friends know and I'm running out of excuses for why people do that. It happens maybe 50% of the time whenever I'm purchasing something. I am REALLY looking for a way to escape from that. It hurts on the inside it's like this horrible feeling you get and you just want to go...NO stop calling me that please! but you can't say anything so you just sort of stand there and grimace...I'm a pretty bold person but I'm not ready to stand there and explain that to people....it bothers me so much.

Many credit card companies will issue a card, with the same account number, presumably for a family member.

I have such secondary cards on several accounts.

Randi

Quote from: Plaid Chameleon on January 03, 2014, 04:47:48 PM
People will generally assume he until I hand them my credit card or license then..game over.

'Who are you talking about?' Is what I would like to ask people if they werent strangers/coworkers. Whoever you are talking about isnt here.

What I find confusing is how when someone calls a cis girl a guy mistakenly or a cis guy gers called a girl, they correct themeslves immediately with a flurry of sorries.  Yet when a trans person corrects them they just stare blankly (by they I mean general public) and then don't say anything, as if the feelings haven't been valid enough to be hurt.

My mom called it a 'Pronoun Obsession'. Nevermind that pronouns are what is used to describe a person in the eyes of other people and its a valid feeling to try and get the recognition that should come with them.

I would say if I am obsessed with it its akin to how a crippled person relies in a crutch to walk. I brace myself automatically now when I know a pronoun would come up in the sentence, and breathe a sigh of relief when its the right one. 

And if you think thats bad, a lot of languages dont just have pronouns, they have gendered endings on almost everything you would do. So instead of a punch of a wrong pronoun every once in a while its like a barrage of wrong endings and after a while it gets harder to hear the conversation from all the effort it takes to just tune out how it hurts.

I'm not out, so when someone calls me she I don't like it, but I'm so used to it that it doesn't really cause dysphoria. I just feel numb and disconnected from that word.

Well I am not out in life except to my wife.  Everybody knows me as my birth name and with those pronouns. 

It did bother me when I accepted being transgender.  I though how nice it would be to be called by she instead of he.  But now it doesn't bother me at all.

I just see it as a way of addressing me not a reflection of who I am.  That is what they know to call me so that is fine.

I talked to my father today about "the whole trans thing". He's known for over a year now, but when I had to get off the phone to clock in for work, he ended the conversation with, "Love you, son. Talk to you later".

Had I not been standing right outside work, I would have gone straight to screaming.

Coming from a complete stranger, it's no big deal. I work at a hotel, so I deal with hundreds of people every day that I will probably never see again for the rest of my life. They're insignificant.

But when someone close to me, someone who knows me, does it...particularly if they make me feel like it was deliberate, it's infuriating. When my dad did it, I wanted to reach through the phone and smack him. I've posted pictures of myself all over facebook, changed my name, gone full-on girl, and he just keeps on. It doesn't always sound deliberate, but 9/10 times I can tell - he's doing it on purpose. I think it's denial, honestly. He wound up with two trans children, and can't accept that instead of big brother/little sister, we wound up being big sister/little brother in the end. And I understand. It's a big deal. But to put enough emphasis on the wrong pronoun that I can tell you're doing it deliberately? That's just plain annoying.

My SO does it all the time, but she's got the rest of her life to adjust, and she's just too stinkin' pretty for me to get mad at.

Putting it as 'They are using it to address me, not to define me' when dealing with strangers/acquaintances is helpful. In a perfect world we could have explained ourselves to them, but bigotry is still rampant and will remain so, thats why I usually dont even attempt to correct anyone. Had an odd experience a few days ago when I had to use personal skype for work which has my chosen name on it and my coworkers made fun of me since they thought it was an alias and I havent started transition. I tried to explain then detected cold stares and just kind of let that explanation die out.

It is more complicated when dealing with friends/family you have explained things multiple times to. One of the main ways we see their support is through their words and actions. They could be saying whatever to other people, I dont really care, but how hard is it to remember to use proper words if you talk to your child only once every week or month? Slips of the tongue happen but those are usually followed by a quick correction in that case. If its just left as is then it is a sign of direspect, even if they don't fully mean it. That's why it hurts to hear that. Sure it takes time to adjust, but it also needs effort. If that effort is not put forward by the 'ally' party then the strained relationship isn't going to change.

Quote from: StrykerXIII on February 14, 2015, 02:32:51 AM
But when someone close to me, someone who knows me, does it...particularly if they make me feel like it was deliberate, it's infuriating. When my dad did it, I wanted to reach through the phone and smack him. I've posted pictures of myself all over facebook, changed my name, gone full-on girl, and he just keeps on. It doesn't always sound deliberate, but 9/10 times I can tell - he's doing it on purpose. I think it's denial, honestly. He wound up with two trans children, and can't accept that instead of big brother/little sister, we wound up being big sister/little brother in the end. And I understand. It's a big deal. But to put enough emphasis on the wrong pronoun that I can tell you're doing it deliberately? That's just plain annoying.

That hits the nail on the head for me.  Anytime someone knows better but does it anyway to me gets me really upset.  Its like they are not respecting me by doing that.

I would agree that it is a form of denial.  He cannot accept it so go back to the pronouns he prefers not the ones you want to be address by.  I know it would be hard to do, but maybe you should accept that he will do that.  You can lead that horse but you cannot make it drink.  If you have repeatedly told him to address you by she not he, what would be the point of banging your head against the wall any further.  You cannot force him to do that.

By accepting that he will do that, then your saving yourself a lot of grief and heartache over it.  It is form of giving up on yourself and letting him decide.  But you have to ask yourself which is more important,  him calling you he and having a good relationship with your father regardless of that or standing up to his denial and in a way bullying you but at the cost of all the frustration and bad blood between the two of you.  Just a suggestion in that regard.

Quote from: StrykerXIII on February 14, 2015, 02:32:51 AM
My SO does it all the time, but she's got the rest of her life to adjust, and she's just too stinkin' pretty for me to get mad at.

I agree about the SO.  Mine is just too pretty and lovely to let that get in the way and eventually she will adjust :)

Quote from: Yazoo on February 14, 2015, 12:30:05 PM
Putting it as 'They are using it to address me, not to define me' when dealing with strangers/acquaintances is helpful. In a perfect world we could have explained ourselves to them, but bigotry is still rampant and will remain so, thats why I usually dont even attempt to correct anyone. Had an odd experience a few days ago when I had to use personal skype for work which has my chosen name on it and my coworkers made fun of me since they thought it was an alias and I havent started transition. I tried to explain then detected cold stares and just kind of let that explanation die out.

In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to explain at all.  I am Michelle and address me that way regardless of anything else.  People would do that as a sign of respect to me regardless of what they think I should be address by.  But its not even close to a perfect world and bigotry does exist so sometimes not even bother with the explanation just let it go.

Quote from: Yazoo on February 14, 2015, 12:30:05 PM
It is more complicated when dealing with friends/family you have explained things multiple times to. One of the main ways we see their support is through their words and actions. They could be saying whatever to other people, I dont really care, but how hard is it to remember to use proper words if you talk to your child only once every week or month? Slips of the tongue happen but those are usually followed by a quick correction in that case. If its just left as is then it is a sign of direspect, even if they don't fully mean it. That's why it hurts to hear that. Sure it takes time to adjust, but it also needs effort. If that effort is not put forward by the 'ally' party then the strained relationship isn't going to change.

I agree its a sign of disrespect not to put in the effort to address someone by the way they want to be address.  Maybe instead of getting all uptight and frustrated over it, maybe the solution is to sit down and talk to them about it.  Find out from them exactly why they will not put the effort.  Then try to address those issues with them so they can use the right form of address.  It just so difficult to be that way and treat the other person with respect to solve the problem when they are disrespecting you.

A week or so ago, at work, someone used my old name over the intercom. I answered the phone and it was my mom, I went off on her! lol! She told me that she used my new name and we went onto finish our conversation. I was way more upset than I thought I'd be though. Turns out the person who said my old name was unsure if "people would know who she was talking about" I mean... It's MY name! lol! I know my name. She apologized and I told her it was fine but not to do it again..  ugh.. so bothersome tho..

well, to me, incorrect pronouns are like:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.personal.psu.edu%2Fafr3%2Fblogs%2Fsiowfa12%2FFingernailsChalkboard1.png&hash=145f411f4791613c014989b7ca13cde5158b11c0)

(i'm actually cringing just looking at this picture.)

While I am disturbed about people referring me as anything of the F. gender, I am not going to make people say otherwise. That's their problem. I can't avoid being outed regardless of them using the correct or incorrect wording because I don't look like a typical male. So, whatever...

Feeling uncomfortable being seen and referred to and interacted with as male as lead me to avoid social occasions and not develop a network of friends. It can be very lonely *sniff*

I think I agree with Yazoo, but I'm a little more like Tanya in my general reaction.  Most times it's no big deal, I'm very small and not terribly masculine.  It might upset me more in a year or more after I've been on T longer. 

I do my best to not let it hurt because to be honest- as an individual I am terrible as far as remembering people's names and other important info.  My roommate mis-pronouns our cis friends that have NO disphoria or cross dressing type habits that would add any confusion.  She just seems to have trouble with words rather than genders. I've actually met a few more people with this problem who are young and queer in one way or another and very trans friendly.  They are also awful at recalling names and other things...

Overall I feel the properly applied 'sirs' tend to make up for the incorrect stuff.  I'm out at work, but only in my department- there's at least five or six places I have to interact with that still don't know and I'm not sure how to spread the word across a rather big workplace. 

My parents and elder brother still refer to me as "he," with my older name and so on, and it's the same at my workplace (minus my old name). I don't mind it at all, and I've rarely even thought of it apart from it going in one ear and out the other.

I am reminded that this is our "Dominant Culture" at it's apex.  It is deeply enshrined in our mythology.  As our creation "myths" suggest, we NAMED everything under the sun as a first step in domination of the world as we knew it.  Funny how limited those early misadventures were eh???  Consider the vast taxonomy of species and diversity today! 

How more open, dynamic and real to understand that we have an unlimited range of possibilities and discourse to share and learn about.

We ask that people see our whole and true self as we celebrate a river of change running through it....

Why is that so hard to understand?

To me it changes according to the situation specially given that I live in a spanish speaking country and there are no neutral pronouns in spanish (I'm non-binary). Regardless, the closest thing to a neutral form is the masculine form (androcentric, I know).
What really bothers me are specific words like miss, lady, young lady, lesbian or woman when used to refer to myself... I deeply hate the word lady.
When I go out and people use the masculine form or greet me as if I were a guy (wich is not often). I feel very very accomplished but when people use the femenine form... I don't feel anything really.

It's one of the most dysphoric situations to be honest, mostly because I've been in situations where it was used specifically as an attack, so even someone slipping is rather painful to hear.

It's really hard for me to be at home because literally everyone besides my family uses the correct pronoun. And then I go home and my mom greets me with my birth name and I'm like. Ugh. No.

I'm not out to many people yet, so just about everyone calls me "she", except for on the rare occasions where people mistake me for a guy. It doesn't bother me if people refer to me as "she" or "he", but I do prefer "they".

Im ok when people call me she because is not their fault if I'm not out.  My problem is like this:

Quote from: awkward-shark on April 11, 2015, 11:04:05 PM
To me it changes according to the situation specially given that I live in a spanish speaking country and there are no neutral pronouns in spanish

In spanish we dont have neutral things, its not like "I'm tired" and everyone knows you are boy or girl if they know who you are. If I say "estoy cansadA", the final A says than I'm a girl, but if i say "estoy cansadO", the final O says Im a boy. I'm all the time trying to rephrase things, trying to talk more neutral. Otherwise I always talk like a boy when I'm talking about myself. If I'm writting on whatsapp, facebook, etc I always say it was a typo or that I wasnt paying attention. In person some friends look at me and I just keep talking.

QuoteIn spanish we dont have neutral things, its not like "I'm tired" and everyone knows you are boy or girl if they know who you are. If I say "estoy cansadA", the final A says than I'm a girl, but if i say "estoy cansadO", the final O says Im a boy. I'm all the time trying to rephrase things, trying to talk more neutral. Otherwise I always talk like a boy when I'm talking about myself. If I'm writting on whatsapp, facebook, etc I always say it was a typo or that I wasnt paying attention. In person some friends look at me and I just keep talking.

By this I guess you're not out yet? Now I'm out to a few friends and I've got more confidence in using the masculine form when speaking to them; I say "estoy cansado/ estoy solo en casa" and even with the ones I'm not out to yet. Honestly I don't think a lot of people notice.
When I'm with my family I want to use the masculine form and I always stop for a second and think if I should or not. Usually I rephrase everything like you do and end up saying "me dejaron sin nadie en casa" instead of "estoy solo/a en casa" lol it's funny. I like playing with words like that.

No, I'm no out yet . Its harder thinking twice before write, but sometimes I just do it on purpose and wait for some reaction. :P

Since I'm not out yet, I have to deal with male pronouns and names. For me, it's extremely painful to hear, yet I can't do anything about it without outing myself. It's caused me to isolate myself from people more than usual, and school is becoming a nightmare.

Yeah, english has it a bit easier on the speech being mostly gender neutral except pronouns. In russian every single word ending is gendered, so I am avoiding speaking that language if I can. When I do have to use it I notice the endings a lot, particularly wrong ones and after a while the stress just accumulates, since when we talk we want to convey information not get stuck bracing for wrong endings or panicking a little when you use male ones since the person you are talking to isn't fully accepting and doesn't try to change their speech at all.

My main gripe is when you rarely interact with people that are important in your life, why cant they set aside those few minutes you do interact to at least try to address you correctly? I don't know what happens when I am not there, they are free to do and say whatever, so no I am not putting undue stress on them and expect too much.

Bracing is a lot of how I handle pronouns/endings. It does affect how outgoing I am, but it does help lower the hurt from the wrong ones. 

Tbh I've once or twice used female pronouns regarding myself. It did make me pause for a while. So on that note i don't get that aggravated when I'm misgendered. It'd feel hypocritical. People have been more and more using my preferred name so that's nice. It's mainly customers that use "Ma'am" or "miss" which makes me sad and wonder what is giving me away.

Honestly, i would much rather someone use the wrong pronouns instead of calling me "it". There is nothing that infuriates me more than being compared to an inanimate object. A "thing" rather than a person. It even bothers me when gender neutral people say "i prefer 'it'". I can't for the life of me bring myself to do that (foreign languages notwithstanding)

I'm really lucky that in my native language, there are actually no "he" or "she"... it's all one word. There is also no gendering of nouns or regarding speaker's gender, etc. In English, I usually don't care... if I wanted to be in a position to demand "Ma'am" I'd be wearing a skirt to make it easier for them :)

Quote from: awkward-shark on April 11, 2015, 11:04:05 PM
there are no neutral pronouns in spanish (I'm non-binary).

I'm currently learning Spanish, and I was thinking about this the other day: that it is not a very forgiving language for the genderqueer. Not least because so many professions include a reference to gender (doctor/doctora; ingeniero/ingeniera; maestro/maestra and so on.) I imagine it must be very annoying?

Edit: Oh, never mind - I saw now that you discussed this already. Language in general, and Spanish in particular strikes me as a beautiful tool of communication, but comes with some serious limitations.

Quote from: GendrKweer on June 06, 2015, 01:22:19 AM
I'm really lucky that in my native language, there are actually no "he" or "she"... it's all one word.

That sounds amazing. Which language is it?

Re Spanish above: I live in Italy, where they also have the a/e o/i endings for masculine and feminine. It's useful for knowing how people gender you when they don't actually use the word signor or signora. For instance, receiving a Brava vs Bravo for doing something good immediately tells you if someone took you as male or female.

Re what is the wonderful non-gendered language? Hungarian! A country growing more homophobic, transphobic, antisemitic and racist by the day. But the language is great! :D All because of the tiny word ő which means he/she/it, without the slightest distinction. Funny, as my native language, it sounds so natural to me, but any time an english equivalent is proposed (shim, zee, etc), it sounds so off...

Quote from: GendrKweer on July 05, 2015, 01:06:33 AM
Re Spanish above: I live in Italy, where they also have the a/e o/i endings for masculine and feminine. It's useful for knowing how people gender you when they don't actually use the word signor or signora. For instance, receiving a Brava vs Bravo for doing something good immediately tells you if someone took you as male or female.

That must be very useful, provided that you are want to present as one binary gender. Much like the Sir/M'am/Miss in English interaction. I was once called "miss" while on vacation in the US - I was living as a male, and at the moment wearing only bathing trunks, so it made absolutely no sense, but it still makes me happy to think about it.   :D

Quote from: GendrKweer on July 05, 2015, 01:06:33 AM
Re what is the wonderful non-gendered language? Hungarian! A country growing more homophobic, transphobic, antisemitic and racist by the day. But the language is great! :D All because of the tiny word ő which means he/she/it, without the slightest distinction. Funny, as my native language, it sounds so natural to me, but any time an english equivalent is proposed (shim, zee, etc), it sounds so off...

Oh.. Well, every cloud has a silver lining, I suppose. :O I thought it might be Finnish, but if I recall correctly they are rather closely related, aren't they?

I'm a native Swedish speaker, and very happy that we have lately introduced a gender-neutral pronoun ("hen"). It has been met with fierce opposition, but somehow "hen" survived and seems to be here to stay. It still feels awkward to use it, but a little less so every time I do. Actually, I recently read an interesting article on the subject. It argued that pronouns (unlike e.g. nouns and verbs) is a closed class of words. While there are rules in place for how and when any Swedish speaker might create a new, comprehensive verb, (essentially by adding -a to a noun) there are no such rules regarding pronouns. The author argued that this is really the reason why people get upset when a new pronoun is introduced - they just don't know it. The reaction is similar to that we might expect if we were to introduce a new preposition. There is no real reason why a person would be on a bus or a train, yet in a car. In these sentences prepositions do not carry vital information and could be replaced, the author suggests, by the word pug. "I am pug the bus, later I will be pug my car, pug my way to you." Even if "pug" weren't a dog breed in English, most people would still feel rather strongly about keeping the old prepositions, because prepositions is a closed word class; we just aren't used to the concept of introducing new prepositions. For the same reason, even many of the genderqueer probably feel awkward using new pronouns like "hen", in Swedish or "shim"/"zee" in English. I think it makes a lot of sense. :)

At this point, I'm only out as trans to my girlfriend. Everyone else considers me a woman. When I am called "she/her" I have to admit that it feels really uncomfortable. Beyond discomfort, it is a deeply-rooted, lonesome feeling that resonates in my head for the duration of the conversation.

And yet... I know I have to suck it up in order to live my life, get things done, and ultimately make positive changes in my life.

One trick I use is this:

For example, let's say my buddy misgenders me. I immediately try to focus and picture exactly what he/she is saying. I try to escape myself a little bit and be in the present and listen to what he/she has to say.
--disclaimer: This is really difficult to do. Some days it is almost impossible. Not to be cheesy or anything, but meditation helps a lot. Practicing living in the present moment for a bit makes it easier to not linger in the immediate past when someone unknowingly pulls a trigger.

For me this is one of the things that depresses me the most especially because I can't really be angry or frustrated with people and even though I have come out to my friends I feel bad correcting them so I tend to not say anything when they slip. However, the thing that bothers me even more is when people call me by my birth name instead of the name I've chosen to reflect my true gender identity. Once again, since I'm not living as a woman full time I can't really fault people, but I get this terrible feeling when I hear someone call me Zane instead of Thea.