Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Yay, another thread about boobs!

This occurred to me in the shower this morning. Maybe it's blindingly obvious but it seemed a bit of an epiphany. We talk a lot about the similarities in the stages between trans* breast development and cis teen girl breast development. The one thing that doesn't seem to get discussed much is that the cis girls are usually starting from a much much smaller rib cage, chest span. I mean, if I'd had the six months breast development I've got now but on my 12 year old chest, I would be hugely developed. As it is, my chest is probably twice the size as it was when I was 12, so the girls seem much smaller in comparison.

For some reason, I feel compelled to post. I had a bizarre itch that made me look at this forum. Odd...

Yes, I agree. How could I not! A big frame around a small picture can make the picture seem tiny.

My forming breasts feel huge, but they really have not grown any (or much) in six weeks. Their texture is changing, and they are much more sensitive to touch. My wife pushed me on the chest yesterday, like she always did to my man chest, and I was like, "Woah!". But I did not say anything. I sucked it up. Them she put her head against my chest and leaned against me, which got a similar reaction.

She does not see or feel the difference, so she still treats my chest in ways in ways I would never treat hers. Big frame, small boobs. Sigh...

So much fun, though.

She does like to give my nipples some new and special attention though... so I know she is not abusing my chest to be rude. :D

I suppose chest size probably does play a role.  That was something I've found myself thinking about as well because I noticed there has been some substantial growth but it doesn't show as much as I'd hope.  Oh well, it keeps developing, so that's what's important.  I'm not looking for anything major, just a decent amount of cleavage.   Oh how I wish there was some way to fast track hormones.

Quote from: Tori on January 05, 2014, 03:58:09 PM
For some reason, I feel compelled to post. I had a bizarre itch that made me look at this forum. Odd...

Yes, I agree. How could I not! A big frame around a small picture can make the picture seem tiny.

My forming breasts feel huge, but they really have not grown any (or much) in six weeks. Their texture is changing, and they are much more sensitive to touch. My wife pushed me on the chest yesterday, like she always did to my man chest, and I was like, "Woah!". But I did not say anything. I sucked it up. Them she put her head against my chest and leaned against me, which got a similar reaction.

She does not see or feel the difference, so she still treats my chest in ways in ways I would never treat hers. Big frame, small boobs. Sigh...

So much fun, though.

She does like to give my nipples some new and special attention though... so I know she is not abusing my chest to be rude. :D

On a related note, after 2 weeks on E/spiro, I haven't had any growth, but I am definitely more sensitive. I notice it a lot when I accidentally brush my arms against my chest, it's very new and interesting :D.

The mammary tissue that you develop is proportional to your genetic allotment of estrogen receptors in your breast area. The size does look proportionally smaller, square centimeter to square centimeter due to the proportionally wider circumference of the rib-cage on a transwoman. That said, I know many transwomen who have had ridiculous breast growth (big boobs in their family) and they look proportionally normal. The smaller the breasts, the less correct they look due to the width issue as there's more tissue to support the breast and so, you don't get the cupping of the under-boob area.

Yikes... my family have huge boobs on both sides.  Pro... I could have a shot at being naturally proportioned to my rib cage, but con... my back is bad enough!    :-\

Crunches, burpees, planks, squats. Get your body in shape **before** they come in.

Quote from: learningtolive on January 05, 2014, 07:53:10 PM
I'm not looking for anything major, just a decent amount of cleavage.

And that's the thing isn't it... on a smaller ribcage I reckon I would easily have decent natural cleavage by now (instead of having to smooch them in together, which doesn't feel very nice or comfortable, so I don't do it). I'm lucky I have a narrow ribcage for my height (about 93cm/36") but that's larger than a lot of women (even the tall ones). Oh well, not much I can do about it.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on January 05, 2014, 09:14:20 PM
Crunches, burpees, planks, squats. Get your body in shape **before** they come in.

  Eh, my body is too thin already - I need to EAT!

The wider ribcage is kind of annoying for me only because it is masking the significance of the change.  I started with a 36" circumference around the nipples but after only seven weeks of E have gained nearly 2".  It hardly looks like anything because the fat is distributed over such a wide area.  I can tell there's fat landing there because I was almost skin and bone before and the feeling is distinctly different from the glandular bud under the nipple.  It could actually be a large change in volume but you wouldn't know it looking.  I think also my skin needs a lot of time to grow to make room because it's very taught and elastic.  It's like my skin is a compression sports bra of its own making.  Skin growth may bring a lot of the change coming up in the short term.  Guess I'm in for a lot of itching soon. :P

No one said that exercise meant that you'd get thinner. The most in-shape women I know are *huge* in the butt and tiny in the core. Exercise + working out = win.

I have lost a lot of weight. I started out at a 46C.  Now, close to 100 lbs lost, I'm 38DD.  The 38" around my rib cage will not get much smaller.  I ended up keepin some of the moob fat as breasts and some of the leg/but fat as shape.  I lost the weight first by diet and then second by exercise.  I started "bouncing" my weight when I had lost around 70 lbs.  I went up 10, down 12, up 8, down 9 ect for the last 30 lbs.  Now, I have stopped bouncing and am just focused on loosing the last few pounds before I have FFS.  I started this weight loss process Feb. 11, 2012. 

All is not perfect as I have some loose skin issues around my upper arms and around my waist.   I'll get that fixed with the FFS.

So, bouncing the weight seemed to help me...

Jen

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on January 05, 2014, 09:48:51 PM
No one said that exercise meant that you'd get thinner. The most in-shape women I know are *huge* in the butt and tiny in the core. Exercise + working out = win.

  Well that's what happens to me - my metabolism is so rediculously high that I can barely build muscle from exercise or working out (seriously tried it for years) and it would fatigue me too much over the off-days.  I'd really love to be able to tone properly though.  My butt actually looks pretty good but I'd happily build and tone there plus getting back a bit more muscle tone in my abs that I had before.  I am hoping that HRT is going to help tame my metabolism just a bit so I can maintain a higher body fat percentage and not burn off muscle as fast as it tries to build.  Since starting HRT I've gained a few pounds which for me is a miracle so I think it's actually helping.  I'm at my highest stable weight ever and it's holding.  I'm also not chronically tired any longer so I'll finally have more energy and enthusiasm for exercise when I get back at it.

HRT will drop it like a rock, don't you worry.

Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on January 05, 2014, 11:51:10 PM
HRT will drop it like a rock, don't you worry.

10 months hrt hasn't changed my metabolism at all. I still weigh 150 lbs like I did in high school. And I'm almost 32 now.

I agree that chest size does play a part. If you look a cis women even their waists and butts look way more feminine depending on how small their upper torso is.

In my case, I'm now a b cup wishing for a natural large c, my mother and sister have bigger boobs. I think my sister is a double D and my mother was like a D x3  or a E before her reduction. I was hopping some of their combined boob power would rub off on me but I don't think it's gonna happen.

But hey that's what implants are for lol

Yup. A large rib cage is a serious detriment to a transwoman's presentation. For me personally, its one of my biggest triggers of dysphoria, especially knowing that there is nothing I can do about it. My rib cage (measured from directly under my breasts) is approximately 32 inches (maybe 33 if im being "more honest"  :P ) and my breasts, though evident, are rather spread out. Had I gone on puberty blockers earlier maybe I would have a chest more in line with a cis female, something in thw 28-32 inch range.

What many transwoman also don't take into account for breast growth 1. time and 2. hormone fluctuations. It a regular girl takes years to develop fully, shouldn't it work the same with us? And a woman's hormones are not flat, they fluctuate. Does this too not affect development?

A female rib cage isn't 28 to 32, many are 36  or 38. The difference just isn't that drastic for the most part.

Is that just the rib cage though, or rib cage plus other padding (not including breasts)? I've seen plenty of short cis women with an under breast chest circumference that would be larger than mine but usually only because they are very overweight.

My sisters and I were thin as teens, one had 34, mine was 36, with no padding or anything and under breast.

Interesting to know! Thanks! :)

Quote from: LordKAT on January 06, 2014, 03:16:05 PM
A female rib cage isn't 28 to 32, many are 36  or 38. The difference just isn't that drastic for the most part.

Well thanks for making me feel better :)
Really though, aren't they? Like if you have a 32 band bra is means your "underbust" is 28 inches (you add 4 inches to your ribcage measurement if its even to get your band size, 5 if the number is odd). Maybe the women with a 36+ measurement are simply overweight. My mother for example has a large band size, larger than me, but that is because she is overweight. I, on the other had, am thin and I don't see that measurement going below 32 inches ever. Same with my waist. In the presence of testosterone my trunk "widened" unlike that of a cisfemale. Now, when im in shape, I can easily have a 27 inch waist, heck i can squeeze into a 25! But, and this is a big but, I can never really go down from 27 inches because at that point I would not be cutting fat but muscle, bones, etc. Had I not been exposed to T, I am sure that I would have a much smaller waist, smaller rib cage, shoulder, etc. Now of course everyone is different but the poisoning I experienced through puberty can never be reversed :(

When my waist dropped below 28, I ended up in the hospital for malnutrition. I was also stronger than many of the  guys I worked with
as was the sister that did farm chores with me. My rib cage now is 40. My doc said it expanded from my breathing problems.  BTW, I didn't say band size, I said measurement around ribs. Mine was 36 and I was thin then.

My breast growth has platued and no matter how you look at it I'm smaller than my mum and my sister in that department.

I've wondered if it had to do with the gain of mass and human growth hormones during the period of puberty. When your in your teens your body "wants" to build and develop, When you transition abit later your final mass has been largely set so you don't gain as much chest in development.

I suppose I was thinking more about when cis girls start puberty, their rib cage/chest circumference would presumably be less than when they reach their later teen years and adulthood. Whereas most trans women start their female puberty in adulthood and unlike a teen cis girl are growing breasts from a much larger foundation than had they started as young teens themselves - which is what seems to make early growth sometimes seem a bit disappointing.

That makes sense, Grace.

Quote from: LordKAT on January 06, 2014, 06:00:15 PM
That makes sense, Grace.

Indeed it does. The HGH undoubtedly has an affect as well. For example, starting hormones in my late teens was somewhat of a blessing. I underwent a growth spurt (from 5'6 to almost 5'8!) and low and behold, my breasts grew most during this spurt, as did my hips!  ;D

Yep. But of course those 12-year-old girls grow and get bigger in the rib cage too. So you're absolutely right that it doesn't *look* as big on a grown woman as on a girl, but I bet somewhere there are teen girls who developed late bemoaning the same thing! :)

The average bra size in the US is 36C... which means that a LOT of women must be at least a 36 band, and presumably there are as many who are bigger as smaller (since that's how averages work).

My wife is 37 inches under her bust and I'm 39. It's not a huge difference. We can both wear the same 38 bra in some styles, even. Those bra sizes aren't really in inches, or at least if they are the variation is ridiculous; there's no other explanation for how she can fit into anything from a 36 to a 42.

(Heck, I'm anything from a 38D to 42DDD depending on style. Bra size is a bad way of judging measurements.)

  Just to add some real-world observations, there's one girl at work who is so huge across the shoulders she could have been a linebacker if she wasn't 4'10".  She is an extreme inverted-triangle and quite heavy too with a very large bust.  Then there's another girl as tiny as a skinny 12-year old.  The variation is all there in real life whether we transwomen get judged fairly or judge ourselves fairly for the same attributes.

Yeah.  Sigh...   objectivity is a rare thing when your trans.  I have a few cisgirlfriends who I have charged with slapping me if I don't pass, make fashion faux pas and be brutally honest.  I am hoping that will work.