Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My dysphoria is getting worse pretty quickly, but I don't want to completely transition.

I've heard people talk about asking their doctor for androgen blockers and low dose estrogen.

Assuming that's enough to treat my dysphoria, how much physical change would I expect to see?  The softer skin, less body hair thing is cool, but visible breasts and impotence would be a problem at this time.

I'm basically looking for some mental relief without blowing my life up.  I especially don't want to blow up my marriage.  For what it's worth, I'm 45.

Thanks

Quote from: AmyB on January 13, 2014, 09:09:57 AM
My dysphoria is getting worse pretty quickly, but I don't want to completely transition.

I've heard people talk about asking their doctor for androgen blockers and low dose estrogen.

Assuming that's enough to treat my dysphoria, how much physical change would I expect to see?  The softer skin, less body hair thing is cool, but visible breasts and impotence would be a problem at this time.

I'm basically looking for some mental relief without blowing my life up.  I especially don't want to blow up my marriage.  For what it's worth, I'm 45.

Thanks

It's really one of those things where YMMV with a very large range of possibilities. Those are probably questions best asked to your doctor.

Afaik, from what others have said, it's possible to start low dose hrt and stop, then pick it back up later. So if you feel too many changes are starting, or have concerns, you could probably stop or reduce treatment. Changes are gradual anyway, so I'm guessing it would be ok to do that way.

well it totally depends on your individual body chemistry, some people respond incredibly well to hrt, while others not so much, and yes this includes low dosage as well. However I will note that even low dosage has shown to effect fertility over time. So in other words it may not be what you are looking for atm considering your situation.  :-\

Quote from: calico on January 13, 2014, 09:20:28 AM
However I will note that even low dosage has shown to effect fertility over time. So in other words it may not be what you are looking for atm considering your situation.  :-\

I'm not worried about fertility, really...  I already have a vasectomy, as well as too many kids.  :-)

I'm more worried about um, "functioning."

I guess I'm trying to have things both ways...  I want to do the smallest thing possible to rid myself of the dysphoria, while not blowing up every other aspect of my life.

I don't quite understand want your dysphoria is, if you don't mind talking about it. The reason I'm transitioning is that I'm female and I want my body to match who I am. I want to transition completely. I want to finally live my life the way I need to. I want to be able to be perceived by others as best I can as a woman. I'm not with a companion so I need not have that concern. There are others here who have wives and probably can answer your concerns a lot better then I can.

Quote from: AmyB on January 13, 2014, 11:18:32 AM
I'm not worried about fertility, really...  I already have a vasectomy, as well as too many kids.  :-)

I'm more worried about um, "functioning."

I guess I'm trying to have things both ways...  I want to do the smallest thing possible to rid myself of the dysphoria, while not blowing up every other aspect of my life.

well as far functionality is concerned, there are plenty of non-op's who still don't have issues performing, but again its still no guaranty for yourself,  as Thylacin said in their post if yoy don't like the changes you can pretty much back off and most effect will reverse, at least in the first year anyway

Quote from: AmyB on January 13, 2014, 09:09:57 AM
My dysphoria is getting worse pretty quickly, but I don't want to completely transition.

I've heard people talk about asking their doctor for androgen blockers and low dose estrogen.

Assuming that's enough to treat my dysphoria, how much physical change would I expect to see?  The softer skin, less body hair thing is cool, but visible breasts and impotence would be a problem at this time.

I'm basically looking for some mental relief without blowing my life up.  I especially don't want to blow up my marriage.  For what it's worth, I'm 45.

Thanks

I'm not sure breasts or major physical changes would be an issue with just an anti-androgen, but you will likely have issues with fertility and libido.  If you take low dose estrogen with an anti-androgen, you will likely begin to experience physical changes (such as breasts) as well as fertility/sexual side effects.  Again, it differs for everyone and there are many factors involved, but that's a likely scenario for someone taking these medications. If those are big concerns for you, I'd really avoid hormones until you feel more comfortable with that.

Quote from: stephaniec on January 13, 2014, 11:32:11 AM
I don't quite understand want your dysphoria is, if you don't mind talking about it.

I don't mind at all...  I don't really understand what I'm feeling, so hopefully bouncing things off of other people will clarify things.

I share much of what you are saying...  When I look in a mirror, I don't see what matches my internal picture of what I should look like. When I see a woman, I am bothered by thoughts that I should like she does.  I can't stop thinking about this, and it makes me very anxious, and a bit depressed.

I've felt this way since I was 9 or 10 to some degree...  Recently, however, the feelings have really intensified.  I can't honestly say I'm female, because I'm not sure what that means, really.  I definitely have some feminine traits to my personality, but I have masculine ones too. 

I don't hate my role in life so much, as far as being a dad and a husband is concerned.  As far as general macho-type behavior is concerned, I'm a bit grouchy, but that's about it.  I don't mind the male role in sex.  On the other hand, if I woke up in woman's body tomorrow, I probably wouldn't miss my penis much.

I would like to completely transition, but I don't want to lose my marriage or my relationships with my kids.  I'm trying to find some way of not hurting from the dysphoria that doesn't require giving up the people I love or causing them great pain.

Quote from: learningtolive on January 13, 2014, 12:22:32 PM
Again, it differs for everyone and there are many factors involved, but that's a likely scenario for someone taking these medications. If those are big concerns for you, I'd really avoid hormones until you feel more comfortable with that.

Makes sense.  I just feel stuck right now.

Quote from: AmyB on January 13, 2014, 12:38:35 PM
Makes sense.  I just feel stuck right now.

I don't know ,but one way is to talk it through with an experienced therapist. The one I have is great

Hi Amy,

I'm in the same situation as you, and have been on low dose HRT for almost 2 years.  Prior to that, I did have therapy before deciding.

Some changes are inevitable, I probably have a set of tiny AAs, fat distribution has occurred, and I have had some decrease in strength.  Depending on your dosage and response, you may have more or fewer changes.

For me, it's working well in that the urge to transition is mostly gone and I can get on with things, knowing that I'm not likely to see masculine middle age body changes.

If you're worried about performing and libido, that's another thing that can go either way, I've heard people completely lose it all after a week on spiro, but myself am still at 100% after a month on spiro (not low dose, but not max either). And that could all change completely in the near future or if my doses get adjusted.

Quote from: Thylacin on January 13, 2014, 03:11:49 PM
If you're worried about performing and libido, that's another thing that can go either way, I've heard people completely lose it all after a week on spiro, but myself am still at 100% after a month on spiro (not low dose, but not max either). And that could all change completely in the near future or if my doses get adjusted.

I'm at 4 months and it's still quite strong, a little different , but not a problem

Quote from: luna nyan on January 13, 2014, 02:50:19 PM
For me, it's working well in that the urge to transition is mostly gone and I can get on with things, knowing that I'm not likely to see masculine middle age body changes.

Wow, that sounds really good.  Can you tell me any more about things have or haven't changed socially or emotionally?  I've always felt out of place, and only recently figured out the dysphoria has a lot to do with that.  I'd also love to see the depression & anxiety calm down.

Thanks

Quote from: Thylacin on January 13, 2014, 03:11:49 PM
If you're worried about performing and libido, that's another thing that can go either way, I've heard people completely lose it all after a week on spiro, but myself am still at 100% after a month on spiro (not low dose, but not max either). And that could all change completely in the near future or if my doses get adjusted.

That sounds pretty good overall.  I'm considering asking my doctor for spiro to start with.  I have (mild) high blood pressure, and medicine I'm currently on doesn't seem to be working anymore.  If spiro could take care of both problems, I'd be really happy.

Good news!

You said a magic word, "Depression". Any health plan will cover your therapy if you are depressed, and most gender therapists are well versed in dealing with depression.

Now, Spiro alone can cause bone problems in the long term, and Spiro is what causes impotence in many. The lack of T not the addition E is what effects libido and functionality.

How about seeing a therapist instead of drugs?

I was on what would be considered low dose for the most prt for the first seven months of HRT and my body changed significantly as weell as my weight, muscles, face, etc. Now, on what would be considered a high or resular dose the changes have intensified. I'm probably chemically castrated. But my ability to penetrate went out the window in the first month. I now hve 34D breasts nd barely pass aas male when I need to. I get sir'd by bums who try to bum stuff cux of my short hair and when they really look at me they apologize and say miss. So, don't think low dose won't do anything. It could. Caveat: I had 36A/B boobs and a little plump butt with stretch marks all over my thighs when starting so I may have an intersex condition. I now weigh 120. I was 140. I look positively petite and delicate. I'm even starting to wonder if my BF leaves will I change my mind cause now I passed a point where I don't think I can come back from. I'm 31 too so I'm not a teen. Low dose could really change you. Be prepred to go all the way or maybe don't start. HRT is not to calm depression or dysphoria it's a tretment for transsexualism.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on January 13, 2014, 06:10:19 PM
Be prepred to go all the way or maybe don't start. HRT is not to calm depression or dysphoria it's a tretment for transsexualism.

What she said.  HRT is not something you want unless you know for sure that you're TS.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on January 13, 2014, 06:10:19 PM
I was on what would be considered low dose for the most prt for the first seven months of HRT and my body changed significantly as weell as my weight, muscles, face, etc. Now, on what would be considered a high or resular dose the changes have intensified. I'm probably chemically castrated. But my ability to penetrate went out the window in the first month. I now hve 34D breasts nd barely pass aas male when I need to. I get sir'd by bums who try to bum stuff cux of my short hair and when they really look at me they apologize and say miss. So, don't think low dose won't do anything. It could. Caveat: I had 36A/B boobs and a little plump butt with stretch marks all over my thighs when starting so I may have an intersex condition. I now weigh 120. I was 140. I look positively petite and delicate. I'm even starting to wonder if my BF leaves will I change my mind cause now I passed a point where I don't think I can come back from. I'm 31 too so I'm not a teen. Low dose could really change you. Be prepred to go all the way or maybe don't start. HRT is not to calm depression or dysphoria it's a tretment for transsexualism.

I'm glad some one has said this about HRT. I know there are those that seem to disagree, but I was always under the assumption that if your deleting the T and replacing it with E it's to be female not because your depressed .Of coarse I 'm not a doctor, But it always made me wonder why a doctor would prescribe estrogen for depression given there ls so many types of anti depressants out there and given the fact that your going to grow far more breast tissue with E than any anti depressant. Plus if your married it's going to affect you sex life probably far more than anti depressants because your taking the T away which causes the erection . I'm just wondering , this is not in any way meant to be taken negatively by anyone .

Stephanie, the answer is simple and right in front of your nose.

Since Gender Dysphoria causes dysphoric bouts, which can lead to depression, and ALL insurance policies in America, including the free ones like Medicare and Medicaid, cover depression, but very few cover transition or HRT until after the M is changed to a F on all legal documentation, a doctor who wants to get paid AND help their patient will often list the reason for treatment as depression.

My therapy is covered because my therapist lists the primary reason I see him as severe clinical depression. My Spiro is covered because I had very high blood pressure... and the medication keeps it in check. Neither reason is a lie. I was very depressed when I started therapy and I had high BP.

Quote from: AmyB on January 13, 2014, 09:09:57 AM
My dysphoria is getting worse pretty quickly, but I don't want to completely transition.

I've heard people talk about asking their doctor for androgen blockers and low dose estrogen.

Assuming that's enough to treat my dysphoria, how much physical change would I expect to see?  The softer skin, less body hair thing is cool, but visible breasts and impotence would be a problem at this time.

I'm basically looking for some mental relief without blowing my life up.  I especially don't want to blow up my marriage.  For what it's worth, I'm 45.

Thanks

Amy, I understand where you are coming from.  When I started on ultra low dose estrogen and a T-blocker, it was because I had medical conditions that some would consider contraindication to cross hormone therapy.  I was started on patches.

The lowest dose patch available brought me almost instant relief from dysphoria.  I thought it was a placebo effect, but I later read that the estradiol hits in the brain in seconds.

Quote from: Tori on January 13, 2014, 06:50:42 PM
Stephanie, the answer is simple and right in front of your nose.

Since Gender Dysphoria causes dysphoric bouts, which can lead to depression, and ALL insurance policies in America, including the free ones like Medicare and Medicaid, cover depression, but very few cover transition or HRT until after the M is changed to a F on all legal documentation, a doctor who wants to get paid AND help their patient will often list the reason for treatment as depression.

My therapy is covered because my therapist lists the primary reason I see him as severe clinical depression. My Spiro is covered because I had very high blood pressure... and the medication keeps it in check. Neither reason is a lie. I was very depressed when I started therapy and I had high BP.

oh!

Responding to a bunch of different messages at once...

1) I'm pretty sure I'm TS.  Cross-dresser doesn't really describe what I feel.  I am in therapy right now, so we're kind of working that one out still.  My therapist thinks I'm somewhere on the transgender spectrum.
2) Therapy doesn't do much to fix gender dysphoria.  I'm pretty sure the dysphoria is at the root of both my anxiety and depression.
3) I'm on both anxiety medication and an anti-depressant.  They help, but not enough.
4) Before I'd do anything hormone-wise, I'll probably talk to a second therapist.  Maybe Anne Vitale.

My goal is to do the smallest thing possible that reduces the dysphoria to where it doesn't hurt me on a continual basis.  If life ever got unbearable, or I ever got to the self-harming stage, then I would certainly transition.

Quote from: Jamie D on January 13, 2014, 06:57:33 PM
The lowest dose patch available brought me almost instant relief from dysphoria.  I thought it was a placebo effect, but I later read that the estradiol hits in the brain in seconds.

So how are things for you now?  Did you have a lot of physical changes, or primarily mental ones?

Amy-

I was on low dose HRT for about 4 years. It stopped the voice in my head and it stopped the uncontrollable & dangerous urges that I was having for a few years. HRT gave me some small boobs and nicer skin. I could still perform the male role but it took a fair amount of work to get there; i don't know how much of that was the HRT and how much of it was because I was in my mid 40's. If i left my shirt on you couldn't tell I was on HRT.

I used to haunt the androgyne forum and always said that taking low dose HRT let me live my guy life and that was true at the time; i'm sure that if you search over there you can find my old threads saying that. But as we all know the feelings just keep getting stronger over time and eventually low dose HRT wasn't cutting it - my dysphoria came back with a vengeance. Now I've gone over the waterfall and I'm transitioning  :laugh:

Low dose HRT might work for you as it did for me with not many side effects, but YMMV. Your idea of finding another therapist to talk to sounds like a good one. I wish you the best of luck.

Amy,

I'm a social chameleon and very good at putting on the appropriate act for a given situation and group of people.  That hasn't changed at all, but the undercurrent of not quite fitting in is always there, HRT or not.

Emotionally, I'm more likely to tear up these days and less aggressive.  Libido is way down - I can see an attractive woman and pay more attention to what she is wearing.

I think that low dose HRT has the following possible outcomes:
1.  You don't like the effects and in fact hate them.  This might put into doubt the nature of your GID
2.  It works well enough that you lose the urge to go further into transition indefinitely.
3.  It only works well enough to delay transition for a few years.
4.  It makes the dysphoria even worse and you end up transitioning immediately.

If you can live with all of the above outcomes, then it may be something suitable for you.

My therapist warned me when I started low dose that I'd soon want more cause she'd seen that play out so often, which is what ended up happening for me. Low dose being enough, needing more, probably depends upon where you are on the gender spectrum.

I've always been a girly girl, even though I didn't hate my old role either and had an SO I desperately wanted to hold on to (and we've been hanging in there to this day). I love getting to be me now. But a friend of mine, she's been on HRT longer than me and hasn't transitioned to full time yet. So it takes all kinds.

All I know is if you're thinking about HRT, you're probably going to find your way to get on it sooner or later.

Thanks for all of the responses...  Sounds like I have a lot to talk to my therapist about.

Well, I'll be another to chime in and say you don't know how you'll respond. I never needed more than low-dose HRT to transition fully; in fact, even a very low dose turned out to be too much for me. Apparently, my body likes estrogen a lot. :) So even though it's unlikely, you do need to be prepared for the possibility of getting more/different changes than you bargained for, up to and including being responsive enough that a "low" dose is enough to put you solidly on the transition path.

(Now 42DDD and haven't been misgendered since the first six month or so on HRT.)

Hi Amy,
So its been 3 months or so, How has the Low dose therapy been working for you. I can  relate almost word for word to your post so I am very interested in how its helped you. I wish you the best.
Jenn

Amy

While low dose hrt may cause lasting physical change (ymmv) it will provide you with rich emotional benefit and dysphoria release.

With low dose hrt and a supportive endo you can flex the dosages to achieve your aim which could be to achieve full physical transition or more subtle physical change.  Either way it is a legitimate and well used method for helping all tg folk from mta through gq to mtf and all points and expressions on the gender spectrum.

I know members who have been on low dose hrt for several years.  They have not felt the need to fully transition/increase hrt and have had great success in controlling the level, direction and pace of their physical change while providing them with the required relief from dysphoria.  For me it has been nearly 3 years and even with other surgeries and hair removal I still pass as male when that is my intention.

Aisla