Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi all I'm a 19 year old (soon to be 20) MtF transexual. I just wanted to know how often do therapists make you go through real life training before giving you the okay to start hrt? I don't think I can mentally handle the criticism if I had to do that before being given the okay because at the moment I am very solid looking and no matter what angle you look at all you can see is just my body dripping with testosterone.

You should expect atleast three months of therapy then be OK'ed for HRT. Which will be according to the transsexual Harry Benjamin standards that most health professionals follow. Also the only training a therapist will give you is the simple "how does this make you feel" question a zillion times.

HRT will soften your features, distributed fat into the rights places, and usually lift your mood. Your also welcome to post your face here. if you wish people to give you a real honest answer.  :)

AND... Welcome to the Forums!   :eusa_dance: :eusa_clap: :eusa_dance:

Quote from: Annabelle on February 06, 2014, 06:09:50 AM
Hi all I'm a 19 year old (soon to be 20) MtF transexual. I just wanted to know how often do therapists make you go through real life training before giving you the okay to start hrt? I don't think I can mentally handle the criticism if I had to do that before being given the okay because at the moment I am very solid looking and no matter what angle you look at all you can see is just my body dripping with testosterone.

Yes, welcome!

The answer to your question can vary depending on where you live, different countries have different rules. Often times, rural areas are a bit behind the times compared to cities when it comes to dealing with trans issues medically.

I am in America, and like most places, no real life experience is required anymore to start HRT, that is a thing of the past. Even the three months of therapy is no longer a requirement, although most doctors still want a therapist to work with you for three months. This is especially common practice for younger transitioners like you. Doctors do want to make sure they treat the right people for the right ailments, and psychological issues are the rule not the exception when it comes to trans folk.

Do your research and find a therapist who is a trans ally. Almost any community large enough to support one or more therapy practices has a therapist sensitive to LGBT issues. You can contact a local LGBT center or trans group and ask for referrals to a therapist if you want. You can also ask for referrals to trans friendly doctors. You may find a doc who will treat you without therapy, or at the very least they will tell you what they need from you before you begin (x months of therapy, signatures... etc) which is good info to have.

Therapists are people and like people, some therapists are just in it for the money, and some are biased against trans people. We call those types of therapists, "Gatekeepers" around here. Some therapists will torture you with your need to transition, and keep changing their reasons for not writing you a letter. Avoid these people at all costs. If you're trans and you know it, you are trans. Clap clap!

If someone requires real life experience from you, and you are not cool with that, walk away and never look back.

You own your transition, and doctors and therapists work for you. Never forget that. This is a long journey, and you will need to see a fair share of doctors and likely, therapists. Do not relinquish your power to them. A good professional will only doubt you are trans if they have a very good reason to do so.

Like I said though, it can be a little tougher for someone your age to get treatment, without some therapy, because young people are often less decisive, and are used to their parents or guardians helping them with medical situations. For someone like me, twice your age, it is a bit easier to walk into a doctor's office and say, "I am trans. I need to start transition." with conviction. This is partly because I am as old or older than many doctors and therapists, so their intimidation factor has minimized.

We are here for you, baby girl. Ask away. Help others when you can. We were all new here once.

Aloha,
Tori

Quote from: Natallie553 on February 06, 2014, 06:16:19 AM
You should expect atleast three months of therapy then be OK'ed for HRT.

Are you sure this isn't outdated?

My reading of WPATH SOC V7.0 is that no therapy is required for HRT.

See bottom of page 28: "Psychotherapy Is Not an Absolute Requirement for Hormone Therapy"

From: http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/Standards%20of%20Care,%20V7%20Full%20Book.pdf (http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/Standards%20of%20Care,%20V7%20Full%20Book.pdf)

It really seems to depend on the doctor's comfort level. Sometimes doctors want 2nd opinions too, just like their patients.

I did my best to explain my understanding of this clause in my above post.

Hi! Thanks for replying :D
I'm from Australia and live in a big city. Haha sorry I don't feel comfortable posting a pic of myself here Natallie :3 But basically I'm a constant state/national competitor for swimming and taekwondo... so... yeah. Pretty solid :/
Oh yes I've thought of the problem about my age being a factor many times before Tori :/ But that's very informative information :D

By the way.. I'm new to this site so how do we reply to a comment? Haha

If you are talking about PMs, you have to build up some post count first. 15 to be exact.

Welcome to Susan's. I'm glad you found us. You seem to be a very friendly person and I'm sure you will soon have friends here.

Tori is right in that it matters where you live. Therapy is not required, but often beneficial. Some doctors still want it though.

The only way to reply to a comment is to quote it. This forum doesn't have personalized comments like many others.

There are plenty of Aussies on this forum. I am sure they will give you specific help.

I don't know nearly as much, but it seems, if memory serves me, like you need a doctor to refer you to a trans-specializing therapist... but I may be full of it. If you are in Sydney or Melbourne, you should have a good number of options. Adelaide has fewer options, but the women from around there are singing the praises of their treatment.

Do not post pics of yourself, or your specific location unless you are good and ready to do so. That info can come back to haunt you, although that very rarely happens here.

Once you have 15 posts you will be able to send PMs. Then you can talk in private with some of our Aussie vets. If they have a high post count, and a bunch of positive ratings, you can pretty much rest assured they are on the up and up.

Hey heys LordKAT :) Ah thanks for the info and thanks for the welcome :3 I'm friendly to people who are also friendly but I'm generally a bit too shy to just randomly introduce myself haha. (Btw is that lion and dog your pets?)

I think I can probably handle some therapy but I'm also at my limit before I have a mental breakdown because it's just so hard hiding everything when you know your family is against the idea of being homosexual let alone being transsexual. Hell will freeze over before they accept anything like that. I just hope my therapist will be as understanding as the ones you lucky girls have :3

Ah yes I'm from Sydney and my university psychologist told me he would be more than happy to refer me but since he doesn't specialize in this field he told me I would have better luck going to the gender center around my area.

:o I never noticed a quote button haha :D Thanks for that Tori!

In the US there's no requirement for Real Life Experience before HRT.  And Australia should be the same.  Therapists generally evaluate their patients for two or three months prior to giving approval for HRT, but the WPATH Guidelines have been revised as Suzi said, and there's cases when they immediately approve hormones.  I was approved for HRT in the first visit, but only because my psychiatrist, therapist and the endo wanted me off mail ordered self medication ASAP.  But NEVER USE ME AS AN EXAMPLE, unless it's a poor example of bad and unsafe behavior. 

So go see a therapist, and make it clear how important hormones are for you.  But make sure you're incredibly honest about it because therapists and psychiatrists have a way of seeing through deception.  >:( 

Here in Adelaide, it's 3 visits with a therapist before a referral for hormones.. There's no real life experience required. As to other places around Aus, I can't really say.

Quote from: Natallie553 on February 06, 2014, 06:16:19 AM
You should expect atleast three months of therapy then be OK'ed for HRT. Which will be according to the transsexual Harry Benjamin standards that most health professionals follow. Also the only training a therapist will give you is the simple "how does this make you feel" question a zillion times.

And for the love of the goddess, can we please stop referencing that Benjamin character? Honestly, he did as much harm as good for trans people..

Quote from: Annabelle on February 06, 2014, 07:20:11 AM
I think I can probably handle some therapy but I'm also at my limit before I have a mental breakdown because it's just so hard hiding everything when you know your family is against the idea of being homosexual let alone being transsexual. Hell will freeze over before they accept anything like that. I just hope my therapist will be as understanding as the ones you lucky girls have :3

And there's the reason seeing a mental health professional is handy - they will help you cope with things like coming out.. And transition hurdles and a bunch of other stuff.

Hey there Kathyk and hello The Post-Trans-Rebel. Thanks for replying as well :D

Ah yes I have read about all the risks of self medicating so I don't intend to do that at all but thanks for the heads up :3

:o Thanks for that info Post-Trans :D Gives me hope that I don't have to go through real life experience first XD

Aaahhh I'm so slow at replying and I don't want to come off as rude for not replying to some people :/

You will not have to go through real life experience first, if ever. Post-Trans and I are both poster children for that new trend, although she has much more hormonal experience under her belt.

Prepare yourself for dramatic upper body muscle loss. Taekwondo is great! It will keep you limber, and work your lower body. You may want to cut back on swimming for a while to speed the muscle and fat redistribution.

I am almost three months in, I have been eating like a horse, and I am shrinking everywhere except one area. Guess where. :D

Quote from: suzifrommd on February 06, 2014, 06:51:37 AM
Are you sure this isn't outdated?

My reading of WPATH SOC V7.0 is that no therapy is required for HRT.

See bottom of page 28: "Psychotherapy Is Not an Absolute Requirement for Hormone Therapy"

From: http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/Standards%20of%20Care,%20V7%20Full%20Book.pdf (http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/Standards%20of%20Care,%20V7%20Full%20Book.pdf)

To summarize all the interest of my posting. I simply posted what both my doctor and therapist noted to me. They both said they follow this and that it was a guide for them. So I would fully expect any other doctor to have a similar stance if their unsure.

Since Annebelle is in Australia it really doesn't apply I suppose. I hope some fellow Aussies pop up and help a girl out.  ;)

Quote from: Natallie553 on February 06, 2014, 03:55:53 PM
To summarize all the interest of my posting. I simply posted what both my doctor and therapist noted to me. They both said they follow this and that it was a guide for them. So I would fully expect any other doctor to have a similar stance if their unsure.

Since Annebelle is in Australia it really doesn't apply I suppose. I hope some fellow Aussies pop up and help a girl out.  ;)

If your doctor and therapist are trotting out Benjamin's name, they are more than a little out of date.. Benjamin died in 1986..

Most Australian medico's are likely to use the WPATH Standards of Care, or a protocol of their own.

Quote from: Natallie553 on February 06, 2014, 03:55:53 PM
To summarize all the interest of my posting. I simply posted what both my doctor and therapist noted to me. They both said they follow this and that it was a guide for them. So I would fully expect any other doctor to have a similar stance if their unsure.

Since Annebelle is in Australia it really doesn't apply I suppose. I hope some fellow Aussies pop up and help a girl out.  ;)

This is a wonderful example as to why it is important to know your facts and stay up to date. All too often we have to educate our professionals. If we do not bring them up to date, who will?

see if you can find an informed consent doctor.

the wpath standards are as much about bible thumping as ->-bleeped-<- protection. a series of compromises based on little to no personal experience (my opinion based on what i know)

they arent a required standard for trans surgeries or hrt as far as i know. just a guideline.

anyway. informed consent. best option if youre not one of the few who can pass pre hrt

Quote from: Everly on February 07, 2014, 12:52:38 AM
see if you can find an informed consent doctor.

the wpath standards are as much about bible thumping as ->-bleeped-<- protection. a series of compromises based on little to no personal experience (my opinion based on what i know)

they arent a required standard for trans surgeries or hrt as far as i know. just a guideline.

anyway. informed consent. best option if youre not one of the few who can pass pre hrt

Ummmmm.. What?

I've actually read the SoC's V7 and I can't find any biblical references.. Nor can I find any references to the SoC's in the bible.. (or the torah, talmud or koran.)

And whilst not a legal requirement in most jurisdictions, try getting a reputable surgeon to operate without a 'letter' - whether you got your letter in advance or got it from the surgeons tame therapist. Also, check out the requirements for the surgeons insurance coverage.

things like being forced to out yourself to your entire community to prove that youre a ->-bleeped-<- and get the surgery. thats a brick wall of stupidity. and to me its exactly the kind of thing bible thumping lawmakers would do to ensure that no more 'god hating ->-bleeped-<-gots' ruined the world.

that was my point. i said nothing of biblical references.

Quote from: Everly on February 07, 2014, 01:17:42 AM
things like being forced to out yourself to your entire community to prove that youre a ->-bleeped-<- and get the surgery. thats a brick wall of stupidity. and to me its exactly the kind of thing bible thumping lawmakers would do to ensure that no more 'god hating ->-bleeped-<-gots' ruined the world.

that was my point. i said nothing of biblical references.

While I'm non-op for a variety of reasons, I have my letter for SRS. Public humiliation was never a requirement.. Did I come out to close friends and family? Sure, 3.5 years ago when I started my transition. I sure as hell don't wander around telling my entire community about it. Nor was/am I expected to. All I was required to do was live as myself, Kelly, a woman. Hormones sure helped with that.

im talking about the rlt

Everly welcome to the site and please take an opportunity to examine the site rules and opportunities for members

welcome to Susans! We have people come to visit us from all over the world, expressing different points of view, and you are likely to find someone to help you along your way :) Here are some important links and things to ponder as you begin your journey here.

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Quote from: Everly on February 07, 2014, 01:40:44 AM
im talking about the rlt

As am I.

I don't understand why people see it as a roadblock. It was just an ogranic part of my transition. Like I said, I wasn't required to do anything other than live as me, which I was doing any way. I see from one of your other posts that you've not started hormones yet and I'm assuming you are not living full time as a woman yet.. All that's really required for the 'rlt' is that you live full time as a woman. It's really not all that hard - and if you are lucky, you can do it in the same 12 months that are recommended for hormones before surgery. I'm going to quote something from my blog, as it sums up my life reasonably well, at least since I started living as a woman full time..

QuoteThe reality is, I'm a boringly normal lesbian. Yep, really, I said it. That's the truth of it though. I hang out with friends, shop, clean, etc etc. All the normal stuff, even catch up for coffee with my mum on a regular basis.

The only people that get told I'm trans now are those I sleep with.

right. well. congrats and all that. glad its worked out for you.

but. as youve so thoroughly missed my point, and ive learned over the years when a point will be consistently missed, i give up on this discussion


my point to the original poster was dont get discouraged. and find someone who follows the wpath standards and get informed consent. easiest way.

Quote from: Everly on February 07, 2014, 02:32:37 AM
right. well. congrats and all that. glad its worked out for you.

but. as youve so thoroughly missed my point, and ive learned over the years when a point will be consistently missed, i give up on this discussion


my point to the original poster was dont get discouraged. and find someone who follows the wpath standards and get informed consent. easiest way.

Have I really missed your point? Or is it that the point you are attempting to make is fallacious?

You made claims about the RLT that are false.

Quote from: Everly on February 07, 2014, 01:17:42 AM
things like being forced to out yourself to your entire community to prove that youre a ->-bleeped-<- and get the surgery. thats a brick wall of stupidity. and to me its exactly the kind of thing bible thumping lawmakers would do to ensure that no more 'god hating ->-bleeped-<-gots' ruined the world.

that was my point. i said nothing of biblical references.

I've never been forced to out myself to my entire community. In fact, I've never been forced to do anything. I changed my name legally because it was convenient, not required. I think you have a very wrong idea about what the RLT actually requires.

Right. Okay. you tempted me back to say.

i dont care.

you seem to think your experiences are the standard for all others while having no sense of what rlt may actually mean to other people.
thats more irritating than your slight on me regarding what you percieve as my ignorance.

im not making any factual claims and therefore fallacy is impossible ( its an opinion. get it?) i recommended informed consent based on the op's original inquiry.

please. stop arguing with me. because you cant win an argument against any particular opinion by claiming personal experience as established fact.


agree to disagree?

Sure..

But I will make 1 further point.. My therapist follows the WPATH SoC's..

that is fantastic.

now we can move on good talkin with ya.

o.o that was a bit heated. But thanks for the support and info girls :3

See what you did?

;)

This forum is pretty peaceful, most of the time.

:)

I didn't do any kind of 'test' to get hormones.. Just saw my therapist the required number of times.. And I've not heard of anyone in Australia who had to do and kind of 'test' prior to hormones..

Just looking back through the previous editions of the WPATH Standards of Care and discovered tne requirement for RLE before hormones was removed in 1980..

Yes indeed it is Tori :D I'm just very happy everyone is so supportive on susans XD

Haha I'm feeling a massive confident boost now >:D

Quote from: Annabelle on February 07, 2014, 04:18:12 AM
Yes indeed it is Tori :D I'm just very happy everyone is so supportive on susans XD

Haha I'm feeling a massive confident boost now >:D

Your in the right place  ;D  Your going to have a fun time!

Personally I disagree with any policy that resembles "Gatekeeping" or even reeks of it. Please remember this is only my 2 cents.

Having said that I agree with Everly. Don't let slight bumps in the road discourage you, and find one that follows the WPATH standards and informed consent. Solves alot of problems. ;)

forgive me if I totally don't get this argument. You want to live as the opposite gender, but you don't want to live as the opposite gender. This argument is so totally confusing to me.

Quote from: stephaniec on February 08, 2014, 02:21:51 PM
forgive me if I totally don't get this argument. You want to live as the opposite gender, but you don't want to live as the opposite gender. This argument is so totally confusing to me.

As we all know it's easier for some us to pass than it is for others. Me, I've been living full time for the last 5 years long before starting hrt but I am one of the luckier ones in that I have a more femminine body shape & overall looks. I've always looked like a girl/woman. I have trans friends though that aren't so lucky that are 6'+, have huge arms and shoulders,--well, you get the idea. And forcing a person who has a hard time passing before even prescribing hormones is not only downright cruel to that person, it could be dangerous for them depending on where they live.

Having said that, I have no problem with 1 yr of RLE before SRS even though I know in some places it's not required. It's RLE before hormones I have an issue with. Hope that clarifies my opinions. And that is all I'm doing here, expressing my opinions.

Quote from: The Post-Trans-Rebel. on February 06, 2014, 07:24:29 AM....And for the love of the goddess, can we please stop referencing that Benjamin character? Honestly, he did as much harm as good for trans people..

EXCUSE ME!!?? You obviously weren't around in those days! If it  were not for Dr. Benjamin transsexuals would still be diagnosed with a mental disorder, locked up in institutions, subjected to lobotomies and aversion therapy, and have ZERO chance of finding medical support with transition and SRS. Ask me how I know! I was there!

You are right Jane, he was one of the pioneers, and made tremendous leaps forward.  As a medical doctor and scientist, I am also sure he would realize and applaud the advancements that have been made since his pioneering work.

You are testament to his foresight and kindness.

And yet he seems to get a free pass on the fact he created the 'gatekeeping' that so many complain about..

I don't deny he did good.. But I can also see the harm resulting from some of his work.

Hi Annabelle. Love your name by the way. :)

In reply to your original post / concern, you're going to have a very hard time finding any psychiatrist in Australia who will want any RLE/RLT before prescribing hormone therapy, or referring to an endocrinologist.

I know my original TG GP did say that RLT / RLE was a requirement for HRT, but honestly, he was so behind the times and rather unskilled in the area. Ignore anyone saying such things, it's just not true.

Also, I don't know what you're planning to do with your career re hormone therapy, but be ready to lose some physical strength and muscle mass over time ( years ).

Kia Ora,

Developing a one size that will fit all approach to the transsexual condition(including legislation & treatment etc) is a work in progress... trials and errors along the way ...experienced by all parties involved (Both cis supporters and the trans-clients)....

Just edited

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: stephaniec on February 08, 2014, 02:21:51 PM
forgive me if I totally don't get this argument. You want to live as the opposite gender, but you don't want to live as the opposite gender. This argument is so totally confusing to me.

Hi Steph, it's just as Allyda said. I've got quite masculine features due to my sporting history so it will be impossible with all the muscle and broadness of my body to pass as female right now.

Haha thanks Sammie :D Well my plan has always been to become a science teacher so I don't think my physical strength would be too much of a concern and oh god yes I hope to lose most of my muscle mass and slim down to become slender from hrt :D