Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I heard that Dr Bowers has improved her technique and now performs the non inversion technique, with perfect cosmetics and perfect sensations. She seems to be the first surgeon outside Thailand to perform this kind of procedure. I was always impressed by her life and personality especially after watching the sex change documentary. I am wondering why isn't she popular here at susan's and why would the local girls travel all the way to Thailand when they can get the very same thing in California?

Hi Swan,

Two possible reasons that may define you question. One, cost. As at Feb 13, $23,500 USD (2014 should be more due to Mills Peninsula hospital's yearly fee increments) is competing with $19,000 USD for say, Suporn.

Two. Perceived perception of Thai surgeons capabilities. Albeit somewhat over inflated.

I have the highest respect for your elite US surgeons.

Huggs
Catherine

I haven't heard of Bowers using a new Technique, I didn't see mention of it on her website, where did you hear about it from? I note her site seemed a bit out of date to me, and I would be fascinated to see more people adopt non penile inversion techniques.

As to why she isn't popular here, if I were to go to Thailand and get the non inversion technique, I would probably choose Chettawut whom certainly is less expensive something like $12k for the procedure probably less than $20K to do the flight, hotels, etc. If I wanted someone close I would certainly choose Dr. Christine McGinn, who I could ride the train or drive my car to, and has a similar inspiring background as Dr. Bowers. Not to mention I have been impressed by both their results. The results I have seen from Dr. Bowers are good, but I wouldn't have any reason to fly thousands of miles to California to pay more, sure Thailand is thousands of miles too, but I would save some, PA is only a short ride from DC and if I decided I wanted revisions and didn't want McGinn to do them there is always Dr. Leis also in PA.

My point in all that mess is, there isn't really a compelling reason for me at the very least to look into Dr. Bowers. I am sure for many it is the same, California is a whole world away on this coast.

Personally, I don't understand the fascination with the non-inversion technique. :) I had inversion, and the cosmetics and sensation and function are all 100% as far as I'm concerned.

But I don't see any reason why someone else has to have my priorities (I cared about sensation, then function, then aesthetics), so I can accept that other women prefer other methods.

She is a popular choice among the girls I know out here. But there are several options in Cali and Meltzer in AZ. There's some up and coming doc in SF that people are getting real excited about too. I can't remember his name, just heard about him.

If this is true, I would choose Bowers in a heartbeat. A: no long flight and stay in a foreign country. B: my insurance covers the procedure, but only within the US....so I could potentially use my insurance.

Really need to confirm this.

Quote from: TiffanyT on February 12, 2014, 10:45:02 PM
She is a popular choice among the girls I know out here. But there are several options in Cali and Meltzer in AZ. There's some up and coming doc in SF that people are getting real excited about too. I can't remember his name, just heard about him.

Could it be Dr. Curtis Crane, who took over for the retired Dr. Michael Brownstein?

http://brownsteincrane.com/mtf-surgery/

Dr. Bowers is a very talented surgeon, if I am ever able to afford SRS she is at the top of my top three list of surgeons

SRS is not rocket science and practice and experience makes you better. The Thai surgeons perform on a daily basis this procedure and they have experienced most of the problems that have occurred before in their operations. There are more Thai's that are TS openly than anywhere in the world and in the big cities and resort areas you see TS everywhere so there is alot of local demand plus overseas. Again practice makes perfect.

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 13, 2014, 12:33:01 AM
Could it be Dr. Curtis Crane, who took over for the retired Dr. Michael Brownstein?

http://brownsteincrane.com/mtf-surgery/

Yeah, that sounds about right. I only heard about him last week. I don't know anything else. One girl i know is going to him in a couple months but everyone seemed to think he is some new rock star or something.

I won't say Dr. Bowers is PERFECT, but my results are pretty darn good and I am very happy with them at a year+.  350 miles of pleasant driving versus an international or even trans-national air flight did make a decided selling point for going to her for me. She was not bothered by my age and a couple of other medical issues I had, so it was a good package for me.  The surgery done on me in January 2013 was based on small changes she had made in 2011-2.  A video of her surgery that can be accessed via Wikipedia still shows the pre 2012 method.  I do have self lubrication, and my Gynecologist who has done some consultation with Dr. Bowers and her office does not see anything that is an obvious indication I am not genetic until we get FAR inside.

It has taken me the better part of a year for some nerve healing, but it has developed to where it is more than just touch sensitivity, and is pleasant, but I hear the same from the victims of other surgeons.  (OK patients, not victims!! :D)

Your satisfaction with any surgeon is going to be colored by your pre-surgery expectations of what they can do with YOU and your body.  Be sure that you have reasonable expectations before choosing ANY surgeon. 

As said above, I am VERY happy with how things have turned out, and even the healing process was within toleration if not comfort.  I was in her first hundred patients AFTER number 1,000 who was just a few weeks before me.

Quote from: swan on February 12, 2014, 06:54:28 PM
I heard that Dr Bowers has improved her technique and now performs the non inversion technique, with perfect cosmetics and perfect sensations. She seems to be the first surgeon outside Thailand to perform this kind of procedure. I was always impressed by her life and personality especially after watching the sex change documentary. I am wondering why isn't she popular here at susan's and why would the local girls travel all the way to Thailand when they can get the very same thing in California?

Dr. Bowers is the third than after Suporn and Dr. Schaff in Germany.And the results oft this Methode are amazing in terms oft depth, sensation, natural look. Go for it!!!

Lara

Quote from: Lara1969 on February 13, 2014, 02:01:19 PM
Dr. Bowers is the third than after Suporn and Dr. Schaff in Germany.And the results oft this Methode are amazing in terms oft depth, sensation, natural look. Go for it!!!

Lara

Actually she would be the forth, as Dr. Chettawut  performs the non  technique exclusively unless the patient requests Inversion instead.  Suporn pioneered the non Inversion first and if I'm not mistaken Chettawut was second, either way Suporn, Chettawut, and Bowers are all very reputable surgeons, I'm not sure about Dr. Schaff as I've never heard of him.

Quote from: calico on February 13, 2014, 05:09:46 PM
Actually she would be the forth, as Dr. Chettawut  performs the non  technique exclusively unless the patient requests Inversion instead.  Suporn pioneered the non Inversion first and if I'm not mistaken Chettawut was second, either way Suporn, Chettawut, and Bowers are all very reputable surgeons, I'm not sure about Dr. Schaff as I've never heard of him.

The Montreal Girls are going to come out shooting -- Brassard also does uses this technique and may have beat out my heroine on using it.  I am one happy Trans* chick still though.

Depth wise I am at the top dot of the Soul Source dilator right at the actual vaginal ring,  my tape measure says this is 6.5 inches to that point, so yes I have an effective 7 inches to the outer labia, and it is nice and easy going in now.

Quote from: Vicky on February 13, 2014, 08:15:05 PM
The Montreal Girls are going to come out shooting -- Brassard also does uses this technique and may have beat out my heroine on using it.  I am one happy Trans* chick still though.

Lol dang wow, guess everyone is getting with the new,  lol,  Vicky I'm about the same on my soul source as well,  are you dating/using Mr.  O?, I'm not quite a year yet but I'm on the orange only now and no problems.

I am scheduled with Dr Bowers on April 16, although that's not written in stone yet. I am aware that she has refined her procedure from time to time, It looks like with that being the case I'll get some first hand experience if she really has recently refined it. I intimately know a Bowers patient already, and there's certainly nothing wrong with the old procedure. Looking forward to good things after recovery this summer.

I do not know why he is not known outside Germany but Dr. Dchaff uses a very similar approach to Suporn with similar fantastic result. He has published very little but since a few months you find some information on his website:http://www.genitalchirurgie.com/en.html

He is doing lot surgeries for trans women, transmen and CIS women and men. His scars a famous because completely invisible. Yes I am a fan of him :-)

Lara

Quote from: calico on February 13, 2014, 11:16:38 PM
Lol dang wow, guess everyone is getting with the new,  lol,  Vicky I'm about the same on my soul source as well,  are you dating/using Mr.  O?, I'm not quite a year yet but I'm on the orange only now and no problems.

My kit from Dr. Bowers only went up to Micky Mint (light green) but I do a more active routine related to how I had to maneuver things in during my first few weeks,  and I could use the orange one, but would have to get it myself from Soul Source, which surprisingly is only about 35 miles from me.

I had called and asked Dr. B's office about it, and they said go ahead, but they saw no real need if I was using the green one as I was.  I do not just shove mine in and leave it, I move mine up and dwon and side to side as well as rotating it 360 degrees which can do nice things on my G spot.  The Mint green goes in very easy and is loose.

My dilation schedule says daily on paper, but in reality it is sometimes up to a day and a half apart (one day morning and next day evening???) and no trouble so far.

This might just put Bowers at the top of my short list. 

Quote from: Vicky on February 13, 2014, 08:15:05 PM
The Montreal Girls are going to come out shooting -- Brassard also does uses this technique and may have beat out my heroine on using it.  I am one happy Trans* chick still though.

Depth wise I am at the top dot of the Soul Source dilator right at the actual vaginal ring,  my tape measure says this is 6.5 inches to that point, so yes I have an effective 7 inches to the outer labia, and it is nice and easy going in now.

Yes he uses this same technique.

Not much of the penial skin is used inside the neovagina. If you have a lot of material then maybe.

Split thickness he uses inside unless not enough skin then uses skin from the thighs.

And we get the 4 pack of dilators. I would say if you do not think you would ever need the width then you could always drop the OMG (orange monster guage) off after the 1 year mark. I have found that the larger size after you get past the first week are more confortable then the smaller one. Might be me.

I would say everyone use the doctor they feel confortable with. Everyone of the top known doctors are good at what they do. Your commitment to aftercare plays the most important factor on outcome.

Isabell

All of the major Thai surgeons (not just Suporn) use a scrotal graft for almost all of the internal lining of the vagina. Whatever they say on their web sites, there is really no such thing as a true non inversion technique, even when using a colon graft. It's simply the extent of inversion that differs between this and the standard penile inversion method. I would suspect that many other surgeons worldwide also use similar procedures.

Hi everybody  I'm researching too and would like to know where I could see a surgery procedure or photos of the scrotal skin graft procedure I also have trouble locating recent pictures of said surgeons. I am from South Africa and Thai surgeons are my preferred choice due to proximity and costs
I would greatly appreciate any info or  direction. Thanks girls   

Hi Mash

Take the following link, then scroll down to "external links" and select the "video of Dr.Marci Bowers"

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Penile_inversion

Albeit slightly aged, it still approximates to the scrotal graft technique.

Huggs
Catherine

Catherine,

Thank you for posting this link. That is the old technique dr marcie used. Apparently she has improved her technique and now does non inversion

Thank you swan,

What actually constitutes a non inversion technique?


I posted that link as mash asked the specific question on scrotal skin graft. Being a resident of South Africa, the chances of her going through Dr.Bowers was somewhat remote.

Huggs
Catherine

Vicky, who is a recent patient of dr bowers explained that dr marcie uses very little of the penile skin for construction of the neovaginal wall and most of it is conatructed with the scrotal graft. Instead the penile skin is used for construction of labia minora giving better aesthetics. That is the technique most of the thai doctors use today

Thank you both I got to see scrotal graft aswell as Penile inversion technique I do prefer the non inversion technique though .Kamol and Chettawut do they both do this technique ?Is this technique done in  one surgery?
Lastly has anyone here had non inversion with either Kamol or Chettawut recently (past 2 years ) 

Thank you swan

Quote from: swan on February 20, 2014, 01:50:56 PM
Vicky, who is a recent patient of dr bowers explained that dr marcie uses very little of the penile skin for construction of the neovaginal wall and most of it is conatructed with the scrotal graft. Instead the penile skin is used for construction of labia minora giving better aesthetics. That is the technique most of the thai doctors use today

My god, all I can say there must be some bloody large scrotal sacs hanging round out there. (No pun intended) I knew I was under endowed but this is ridiculous. If I'd of had that technique, I'd be lucky to have 2" depth. And that would be on a good day with the wind blowing. Here's to inversion.

Huggs
Catherine

Umm  :embarrassed: I think what I meant to get across there was that it is not solely reliant on PI and I really cannot say quantitatively how much of P is now my V.  It is nice to be thought of as an authority and quoted, but I was not built like a stud elephant and nevertheless am very happy.  I may have to back off a bit and simply say that your tissues will be used wisely for the best aesthetic and functional effects that your body will allow.   

Quote from: mash on February 20, 2014, 02:52:12 PM
Thank you both I got to see scrotal graft aswell as Penile inversion technique I do prefer the non inversion technique though .Kamol and Chettawut do they both do this technique ?Is this technique done in  one surgery?
Lastly has anyone here had non inversion with either Kamol or Chettawut recently (past 2 years )

Yes Dr. Chettawut  does do the inversion technique primarily unless you request something different,  as for if any one here has had surgery with him in the last 2 years , yes I had my surgery with him last March 2013. So I am almost at one year,  very sexually active,  aesthetics and sensitivity is top notch, however everyone is different so ymmv.  Also Chettawut don't do "cookie cutter"  surgeries, so what that means is if you have surgery with him you vagina will be up unique to you. If you have any questions you wish to ask me I will do my best to answer them for you.

I had asked Robin at Dr Bowers office about this last month, in the context that Vicky and I had discussed on my thread about incorporating the trimmed off part of the urethral mucosa as part of the lining around the clitoris and urethra opening where the vulval vestibule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulval_vestibule) would be as a natal female.

"I'm also interested in details on what the current procedure for GRS involves. I have seen the short 5 minute video summary that was made in the 2000s on YouTube, but have spoke to several recent 2012/2013 patients that have told me that the technique has evolved since then to incorporate more material with better aesthetic and functional results and that there are also longer, more recent videos out there too of it."

she replied to me on January 28th, but didn't mention that it is a non-penile inversion technique- "Dr. Bowers is continually improving her surgical technique.  She performs a modified penile inversion and labiaplasty in one stage.  The labia, clitoris, and vaginal cavity are all created in one surgery.  Both the penile and scrotal tissue are used to create the vaginal cavity. " I was kinda hoping for more information on it...

If I am wrapping my head around this non-inversion technique correctly, its the same as the scrotal graft technique? what I don't get is how is the penile shaft reconfigured into the labia, and Bower's website mentions that part of the outer area of the scrotum is used for the labia majora.

This gets me wondering if she could also reconfigure the prostate ducting from secreting lubricants via the urethra like a male does to creating Skene's ducts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skene%27s_ducts) like where it surfaces in a natal female. Or maybe even using the erectile tissue to construct the internal anatomy of the human vulva (ie internal clitoral structure) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris)  and using 100% of the area for GRS