Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Okay, so this is going to be my last post on this site, and I'm not looking to argue, but I'm going tok say what needs to be said with regards to the recent controversy over a cis woman who recently poste and the ensuing debate and backlash.

First, I'm not speaking to the womans claims. I believe they are true, and I believe saying otherwise is victim blaming...perhaps the product of years of immersion in masculine socialization many on this site endured is to blame for some of the disbelief. Which is an unfortunate reality, and my heart goes out to those who struggled with dysphoria through that. That being said, and not taking away from the difficulty of your experience or your bravery in transition, the effects of being top dog in a sexist society for so long may have left some users out of touch on the reality of sexism and harrassment.

Also, to the users who took offense to my remarks and responded hashly, if the things I had said didn't apply to you there is no reason for taking offense. My words only apply to whom they apply. Regardless, there are users on this board who have lived masculine lives for 40+ years, etc. and are not as attuned to what sexual harrassment and intimidation feels like. This is a reality. It doesn't need to diminish your womanhood, unless you let it. Some users on here prefer fantasy to reality, I've noticed...this site is full of blatant refusal to face facts, even when staring one in the face.

Here's a fact. There are sexual fetishists who claim they are trans*. I have *dealt* with them and their harrassment. Why is that hard to accept? Why is there an obssession with covering that up? If you're sure of your motivation and intensions in transition, you should be perfectly capable of admitting to this element.

And honestly, I don't even judge this element for what it is...however, it becomes a problem when it takes on a predatory nature, which it unfortunately does many times. When claiming trans* status is an excuse for wolves in sheeps clothing to violate womens space. And this is very dangerous. Even more dangerous than predatory non gender variant cismen. Its dangerous to all women because not only are we told we can't fight back against it, political correctness is on the side of the predator in this case. Look at how shamefully you all tried to silence a woman who came to this site seeking to understand, disgusting.

What's more, these types are dangerous to the trans* image...many transgirls are just like any other girl...but the behavior of these predators forces that image on them, subjecting us to dehumanization and theft of innocence. The price of political correctness is those who deserve protection lose it to those who we should be protecting against.

Lastly, trans* rights and womens rights often go hand in hand..however, any time one is used to invalidate the other, there is a priblem. Both are equally important. Trans* rights are never and will never be more important or worthy than womens rights as a whole...both have equal meaning. As a young transgender woman, but more importantly a young woman, my allegiance to one does not supercede the other and it never will. I will never stand by and see a trans* person treat a woman with sexism, nor will I silently watch a supposed feminist dehumanize a person who is transgender.

I will not apologize for these words. These are fundamental principals in my mind, and need no compromise. My intent is never to do harm, offend, ir invalidate, and I hope all reading this with positive intention realze that. I have nothing but love, support, and affirmation to offer to those with pure hearts and intent, you are beautiful and brave and strong and will always have my undying support. For those with more insidious motivation, all I can is I am perceptive, intelligent, and know a bad egg when I see one.

I hope you all take care and have the happiest of lives and transitions. Enjoy your experience!

I do understand there are creepers in every group , including the lbgt community. And different people have different standards to what is acceptable behavior or not. So things get complicated. The people in question are just representative of themselves. But I try to live my life and not be bothered by all these issues.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 19, 2014, 03:20:18 PM
It's a support community, hon. Come back when you understand that.

Hugs, Devlyn

Okay, "hun", say what you like but please don't condescend to me, kay, thanks.

But I guess you didn't read my post. Or you support supporting predators. But yeah, okay, then.

Do as you need to. Hell, goodness knows there have been times when I've reached my limit of what I can tolerate in regards to sexism and bias at Susan's. Pretending like that isn't an issue in trans communities does no one any favours. Obviously.

But please don't walk away with any illusions. You aren't the lone hero struggling against the oppressive in this. You are just another person painting with a very broad brush. Because you are hurt and sad and angry, like the rest. So it goes.

I know this is your goodbye, but I won't hold you to it. If you want to come back. If you need to come back. This place isn't off limits. We may eat our own sometimes, but at least we don't toss them in the ditch.

Best of luck.

Sorry to see you have to leave. Everyone is entitled to have their opinions, but to change how people are is generally very hard, you can really only change how you react. When you need a break you have to take it and if a website or forum causes you discomfort I agree that there's no reason to visit it. I hope everything goes well.

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 19, 2014, 03:28:28 PM
Okay, "hun", say what you like but please don't condescend to me, kay, thanks.

But I guess you didn't read my post. Or you support supporting predators. But yeah, okay, then.

You're lashing out at people, calling us shameful and disgusting. Does this strike you as supportive? Hun?

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 19, 2014, 03:33:39 PM
You're lashing out at people, calling us shameful and disgusting. Does this strike you as supportive? Hun?

I'm referring to behavior not people. You might consider the same of me.


@Sarah7,

I apologize if I struck a nerve. I genuinely do like you and think you're a great person. I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth and I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, my emotions, or my view of myself, which you clearly did, but I appreciate your forward style and think you are very corageous.

But anyway, I wont be back, haha. I just know myself and iIwon't. Ive been learning to go with my emotions and experience them in more contained ways lately, and I realize despite having some very very bad days sometimes, I dont need much support from LGBT circles. But i want to sincerely thank you for yours, in the past, it meant a lot. Take care!

Bye hon, I'll miss you!  :icon_bunch:

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 19, 2014, 03:16:08 PM

Here's a fact. There are sexual fetishists who claim they are trans*. I have *dealt* with them and their harrassment. Why is that hard to accept? Why is there an obssession with covering that up? If you're sure of your motivation and intensions in transition, you should be perfectly capable of admitting to this element.

I agree, I have seen such people myself. I also thought the poster was being courageous and helpful for seeking understanding, rather than outright attacking all transpeople....then, well then she said something to the effect that if it were up to her transwomen wouldn't be able to use women's facilities because of a need to be "protected". That doesn't address the issue at all, especially since the likelyhood of a transwoman assaulting a ciswoman has to be so infinitesimally small (we are less than 1% of the population!), yet transwomen are assaulted by Cismen at a rate that is just absolutely staggering.

My point is, people have right to be angry with at least part of her message, but they don't really have the right to claim such people don't exist. Regardless of the truth of the story (it seems far fetched to me, but unless proven otherwise I generally give people the benefit of the doubt) There are bad apples who claim to be trans, and there are bad apples who aren't. It would be foolish for people to cover up the fact there are bad people in our community, and it is also similarly foolish for someone to say we ought not to be able to live our lives properly because bad apples do exist.

I wish the best for you and will truly miss you. You brought opinions and a perspective that will be missed. All of us contribute different ideas and thoughts for reflection and to hopefully reach those who needed ideas other than their own. I do hope to see you again some day. Take care and be safe. :)

There are creepy guys, creepy women, creepy trans women and maybe even creepy trans guys too. I know when I had reach a point in my transition, the passable full time living pre-op TS woman, I had my share of creeps come on to me. I know one trans woman who was having a bad time (kicked out of the house), so I went to her house to cheer her up and be nice. She wanted a hug, which okay I was alright with that. Then it turned out to be more than that. She kept hugging me tight and grinding into my crotch and not letting me go. Then she wanted to make out with me, which I was not comfortable with. I came there to cheer her up not for sexual release. Eventually I got free, and shortly afterwards left and never talked to her again.


This community has an abundant share of deeply closeted people who have fetish issues. Some are downright devious. I found over the years that I had to wade through a sea of wannabes, pretenders, bs artists, to find another kindred spirit. It just wasn't worth all of the effort. So I communicate this way.

Are there fetishists who are maybe popping some hormones or expect special bathroom treatment? Absolutely. Is it possible they could be in a bathroom or locker room? Why not? As a post op woman I have to say I would be pretty freaked out seeing someone who claimed to be a trans woman in a locker room sporting some wood. I would also be scared being in the women's room alone and hearing some man like voice from the next stall over (women who cannot even spend 5 minutes on a passing voice).

I'm only willing to give people the benefit of the doubt only because I myself have experienced some of this bad behavior and a been a recipient of it as well.

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 19, 2014, 03:37:56 PM
I'm referring to behavior not people. You might consider the same of me.


@Sarah7,

I apologize if I struck a nerve. I genuinely do like you and think you're a great person. I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth and I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, my emotions, or my view of myself, which you clearly did, but I appreciate your forward style and think you are very corageous.

But anyway, I wont be back, haha. I just know myself and iIwon't. Ive been learning to go with my emotions and experience them in more contained ways lately, and I realize despite having some very very bad days sometimes, I dont need much support from LGBT circles. But i want to sincerely thank you for yours, in the past, it meant a lot. Take care!

Do your thing girl. A lot of us know how you feel. Just know their is a movement this year to explain and show the differences between the groups. Some of is will be working hard to show the world. And yes I know this controversy is not popular but for those that don't agree with it that's ok. If they make the choice to go public this late spring and summer they can fight their plead their case like we all are going to continue this year.

Hey I hope you don't leave for a long time. Idk what all that stuff is about but I think you're cool. Don't let some crappy thread run you off. I've been blamed for stuff too and gotten into it.

It would be better, I think, especially with our young members, to let them speak their minds.

There are generational and cultural issues at work. We have seen these in a couple of the recent locked topics.  We all benefit from the conversation, if we take the time to consider what is being said.

I will freely admit that I do not share the same life experience as Abby (jussmoi4nao).  I am learning things from her, because I take the time to listen.  I may not agree, but I am open to what she has to say.

At the same time, Abby needs to understand that many of us have been through the trenches, and that our life experiences give us a perspective different from that of a teen.

I am a selfish person.  I want Abby to stay.  I want to hear what she and her generation have to say.  I am old, but I hope not too old to learn.

Please reconsider, Abby.

jussmaio4nao
Wishing you all the very best on your journey and for your honest and forthright contribution to this forum. We are a diverse group and we bring many different perspectives,values and experiences.  We also define ourselves by our statements and by our actions.  While I may not agree with everything that you have said you have always been thoughtful, honest and authentic.  While we will be the poorer for your absence I respect your authenticity and sincerely thank you for traveling with us for a while.
Safe travels
Aisla

Jussmoifornow,

Honestly, I've always been supportive of you.  I don't know if you remember, but when other people judged and said things about your detransition, I was there to offer whatever support I could.   The reason being I really want you to be happy like everyone.  I know you are a good person and usually I agree with you on these topics, and I still do to a degree today.   The thing is I felt a little insulted and that you didn't really give some of us the benefit of the doubt and listened to what we said because I too understand where she is coming from.  I'm not a cold hearted MRA of doesn't care about women's rights, I've long been a feminist.  So, I felt a little hurt in your assessment of the situation because I didn't think you were giving credit to how others handled it and what we were trying to say. 

Then again, I DO take things too personally sometimes and it hit a major nerve.  Let me be painfully honest with you, I have a lot of internal transphobia and struggle to overcome it.  To be honest,  I'm terrified about how things will go when I'm full time, no latter than June. I guess anything that reminds me that people see me as a freak leads me to tears and hurts.  Forgive me for being sensitive and depressed, but all I want is to one day live a normal life as the real me and it hurts when I know there are people trying to hold me back.  And I'm not secure in my transition because my family is totally against it and I have little to no support in my day to day life.  Usually, I get opposition quite frequently.  That's why susan's is so important to me and why I need it to get by.  It's the one space, outside of my friends, that I have where I can be myself without fear of judgement.  The only place where I can be the girl I am and not just that gay guy.  Even though I'm transitioning and moving forward I don't know how to get over the fear that others will think I'm a freak and hate me.   I suppose the reason I reacted so strongly is that I'm afraid these things will be said about me if I don't pass 100 percent and others suspect I'm trans.  Let's face it, people hate transexuals and if I can't pass I'll be thrown into that pervert category regarldess of who I am.  That's why the past two days I've been tearing up because I don't ever know if I'll ever get to live a normal life if people find out that I am trans since I don't feel I pass 100 percent at the moment.  I just don't want people to see me as a cross dressing trasvestite and not a woman.  Nothing wrong with that, but it would kill me.  In any event, my fears and upsets got the best of me and perhaps both us were talking at one another rather than to each other. 

So I do want to apologize because it led to infighting that shouldn't of happened.  The last thing I want is others to feel sad or hurt.  I didn't intend on that. And I do hate that you feel this way.  If there is a way for us all to bury the hatchet, I wish we could, but I respect if you must leave.  In any case, you have my apolgies and wish that everything goes well for you.

sorry this has happened.as a community we need to be stronger not weaker.

Quote from: learningtolive on February 19, 2014, 04:29:03 PM
Jussmoifornow,

Honestly, I've always been supportive of you.  I don't know if you remember, but when other people judged and said things about your detransition, I was there to offer whatever support I could.   The reason being I really want you to be happy like everyone.  I know you are a good person and usually I agree with you on these topics, and I still do to a degree today.   The thing is I felt a little insulted and that you didn't really give some of us the benefit of the doubt and listened to what we said because I too understand where she is coming from.  I'm not a cold hearted MRA of doesn't care about women's rights, I've long been a feminist.  So, I felt a little hurt in your assessment of the situation because I didn't think you were giving credit to how others handled it and what we were trying to say. 

Then again, I DO take things too personally sometimes and it hit a major nerve.  Let me be painfully honest with you, I have a lot of internal transphobia and struggle to overcome it.  To be honest,  I'm terrified about how things will go when I'm full time, no latter than June. I guess anything that reminds me that people see me as a freak leads me to tears and hurts.  Forgive me for being sensitive and depressed, but all I want is to one day live a normal life as the real me and it hurts when I know there are people trying to hold me back.  And I'm not secure in my transition because my family is totally against it and I have little to no support in my day to day life.  Usually, I get opposition quite frequently.  That's why susan's is so important to me and why I need it to get by.  It's the one space, outside of my friends, that I have where I can be myself without fear of judgement.  The only place where I can be the girl I am and not just that gay guy.  Even though I'm transitioning and moving forward I don't know how to get over the fear that others will think I'm a freak and hate me.   I suppose the reason I reacted so strongly is that I'm afraid these things will be said about me if I don't pass 100 percent and others suspect I'm trans.  Let's face it, people hate transexuals and if I can't pass I'll be thrown into that pervert category regarldess of who I am.  That's why the past two days I've been tearing up because I don't ever know if I'll ever get to live a normal life if people find out that I am trans since I don't feel I pass 100 percent at the moment.  I just don't want people to see me as a cross dressing trasvestite and not a woman.  Nothing wrong with that, but it would kill me.  In any event, my fears and upsets got the best of me and perhaps both us were talking at one another rather than to each other. 

So I do want to apologize because it led to infighting that shouldn't of happened.  The last thing I want is others to feel sad or hurt.  I didn't intend on that. And I do hate that you feel this way.  If there is a way for us all to bury the hatchet, I wish we could, but I respect if you must leave.  In any case, you have my apolgies and wish that everything goes well for you.

Hey, I'm really really sorry if I hurt you that way. I didn't say anything about your posts because I found no fault in them. I mostly agreed with what you said from what I read so I didn't see a reason to comment on your posts or others I agreed with.

Again, sorry if I hurt you. You're too sweet a person for that. And I understand your worries but hang in there. You are who you are and as I said in my first post what is really important is a persons heart and you obviously have one of gold.

Stay strong <3

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 19, 2014, 04:18:24 PM
It would be better, I think, especially with our young members, to let them speak their minds.

There are generational and cultural issues at work. We have seen these in a couple of the recent locked topics.  We all benefit from the conversation, if we take the time to consider what is being said.

I will freely admit that I do not share the same life experience as Abby (jussmoi4nao).  I am learning things from her, because I take the time to listen.  I may not agree, but I am open to what she has to say.

At the same time, Abby needs to understand that many of us have been through the trenches, and that our life experiences give us a perspective different from that of a teen.

I am a selfish person.  I want Abby to stay.  I want to hear what she and her generation have to say.  I am old, but I hope not too old to learn.

Please reconsider, Abby.

Yes, this please. I swear sometimes this place feels like a hugs strangle and if anyone steps outside of this and stands on a different platform then they are subjected to all manor of backlash. It's annoying as hell. I don't have enough time to read the majority of threads so if I do then I'm damn well going to say something about whatever it was I just read.

Please stay Abby, I just learned your name!

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 19, 2014, 03:16:08 PM

Here's a fact. There are sexual fetishists who claim they are trans*. I have *dealt* with them and their harrassment. Why is that hard to accept? Why is there an obssession with covering that up? If you're sure of your motivation and intensions in transition, you should be perfectly capable of admitting to this element.

And honestly, I don't even judge this element for what it is...however, it becomes a problem when it takes on a predatory nature, which it unfortunately does many times. When claiming trans* status is an excuse for wolves in sheeps clothing to violate womens space. And this is very dangerous. Even more dangerous than predatory non gender variant cismen. Its dangerous to all women because not only are we told we can't fight back against it, political correctness is on the side of the predator in this case. Look at how shamefully you all tried to silence a woman who came to this site seeking to understand, disgusting.

I hope you all take care and have the happiest of lives and transitions. Enjoy your experience!

Awwww I'm going to miss reading your posts and seeing you further progress on HRT.  :'(

I do agree that the predatory types have inflicted a bad image for us all. This image has hurt a few new relationships I tried to form because the ladies I tried to befriend couldn't understand I liked talking about girl things as well. So they start believing I'm just talking to them to figure them out for sex.  Thus resulting in me being placed in the creeper category and barred from their existence. 

I'm not sure what post brought up all this emotion. But I am sorry it resorted in you leaving us.  :-\ :embarrassed:

Some of us really enjoyed your well detailed posts.  :)

Right this may cause some agro but i dont care, yes there are some stage fetish trans people out there, i was at a swing club the other night, i won't go into the details, but needless to say the things they said turned my stomach, seriously that person was not a transexual but a man doing it for sexual kicks.
But this was the first time i have ever encountered such a person, so they are pretty rare thankfully :)

First off I do believe that many of the instances of what the original poster describes do happen....its part of society, you have many different types of people....some deranged...some strange and some psychopaths. unfortunately because the trans population is far fewer than the rest of the population these type will stand out more.

Secondly I find it hard to believe that someone ran into this many type of weirdo's.....and the fact she uses terms I wasn't even familiar with until I came to a site like this....and I researched all about who I was starting in libraries 20 years ago. But it doesn't matter if I believe or not, it matters that I am clumped together with many of these types....and for me that sucks.

This has nothing to do with not accepting another's motivation or reasons for transitioning but like sex and politics its something you talk about or do in private, or with others that are into that type of thing.

I will tell you this! I have become even more of a women I thought I ever could, much of this comes from how society perceives me and places me. Some of it bad, some of it good.  I have adapted many more feelings I may never had before. A man making a rude comment about a woman means something entirely different now....or something as little as a man spitting a goober on the ground is much more disgusting than before.

Then there are things I would never have put up with before my transition and even more now. If an MTF is in a public bathroom looking strangely at other women or possibly making sexual gestures. I will tell you right now, if I witnessed this I would either call the police or the store management.....and I am an MTF....the only difference between than and now is that I am the one in that bathroom!

Now if I was in the bathroom and an MTF came in that clearly didn't pass, I would let her go about her business if she acted like all other people do in society....but if I had young children that felt uncomfortable I may leave and come back. This doesn't mean I don't except her it means I am uncomfortable.

This is the one reason I remain stealth and have stayed away from meeting any other MTF's or attended support groups. I have heard too many strange stories. I have even been told by more than one therapist that I may not feel comfortable in some of the support groups they have attended, they felt I wouldn't fit in with the type that attended. Its not that they were strange or bad people, its that they were more about appearance than acceptance.

This is not my subforum, so I apologize if posting in your space isn't encouraged. The most frustrating part about this isn't even the denial that these things happen sometimes. We're transgender, but we're still people, and some people are creeps. Pretending like we're "above that" implies that we're somehow different from other people and, in my opinion, that doesn't do us any good. No, the really frustrating part is the backlash and attacking that sometimes happens when someone shares an unpopular opinion. Feeling like opinions can't be shared without making enemies is not a good feeling on a support forum. There are ways to disagree, even strongly, without being condescending.

Abby, I will miss you. I hope you change your mind, but I understand if you don't.

Well, I'm glad we are okay, but it really upsets me to see you leave over that thread.  You have added a lot to this forum and have contributed much in the short time you were here.  If you need to leave, then I understand, but don't feel like you should.  Most people here support women's rights just as much as the next person, and I think there was a lot of misunderstanding and hurt caused from the topic that should have been avoided.  I think this place remains a safe and inclusive place for everyone.  Let's not let one conversation divide us.  And I'll say this I personally think it's nice when there is someone closer to my age group than most as age can be a bit isolating in these places. You probably talk and inspire more people than you think.   In any case, do what's the best for you and you know where I am should you ever need anything.  Good luck. :)

I think that thread was totally blown out of proportion. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry you have decided to leave; you seem like a really nice girl. I think you shouldn't let one thread make you leave. There are people like myself who agreed with your posts in that thread.

I think that thread was totally blown out of proportion. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry you have decided to leave; you seem like a really nice girl. I think you shouldn't let one thread make you leave. There are people like myself who agreed with your posts in that thread.

I posted in that thread and I would hope that I was clear and concise in what I stated. I feel sorry for anyone who faces these things, and in my heart I would feel sickened and report it without a second thought. The issue I had was the terminology being used. Unfortunately the thread was closed and my PMs never got replied too on the matter. As I had wrote more to explain it in a polite way :(

As a "modern feminist" I look at the bigger picture and find issues that need addressed, which like many of my mothers, and grandmothers generation they had to address in the 60-80s. Now a days its about advancing the cause and moving away from the archaic notions of the past theoretical model, much like an scientific model or in this case sociological model should do.

In terms of you leaving, please take care and know I think you are brave for standing up for your opinion. It is never easy to do and we must always do what we think is right even when faced with adversity.

Love
Sarah :)

Quote from: Mr Hockey on February 19, 2014, 05:41:55 PM
I think that thread was totally blown out of proportion. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry you have decided to leave; you seem like a really nice girl. I think you shouldn't let one thread make you leave. There are people like myself who agreed with your posts in that thread.

as it was said of one of my posts when I was someone else , It wasn't worth the casualties   

To be fair, I don't really think it's just that one thread/conversation. From my experience, it does feel like you'll get attacked on all sides if you say the wrong thing on this site, and that can be a stressful atmosphere for some - especially if their life off the boards is already full of conflict. I've never felt attacked, but seeing it happen to others is even worse than if it happened to me. I don't want to imagine what could happen if someone who's already on the edge gets treated like that.

Not trying to invade or invite debate.

Jussmoi, I am sincerely grateful for your kind responses. I've had enough experience having differing opinions from the radfem community, and being shouted down so I seriously take no offense to the negatives. It all just makes me feel kind of sad for hurt people out there in the world.

Sarah, I would be interested to discuss what part of my terminology was bad. I didn't get any private messages to respond to (not that I can anyways, not having enough posts to do so apparently) If it was, I honestly just don't know it. In writing the original post, I researched terms so as to try not to offend anyone, but still ask the questions.

I will excuse myself from your space as well folks, as it was never my intention to cause any issues. However, I still am open to listening to ideas on where I might be going wrong in my preconceptions and/or terminology. I can be contacted at my user name here by any at gmail.com.

Not just those persons, but many responded helpfully, kindly, and understandingly. Props for that.

We are a community of people with different opinions.  jussmoi4nao, you did jump straight to saying some broad brush harsh things. Just relax, we are going to disagree. A site like this is a valuable resource for you. really it is. really really. where are you going to go when you want advice on surgeries, or to ask people if this is normal, or to find out about new hormone information etc. NOt here because you left over an argument about who uses which bathroom?

I like Paris Lees' take on the matter.  Been as you're here Locame - you should read it too.
She is an authority you know. You can tell; she is even pictured with a toilet.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/can-everyone-stop-freaking-out-over-which-bathroom-transgender-people-use

And we wonder why the community is still struggling for our rights as humans in 2014.  Playing to ones fears always works. Its at worked here.

Isabell

A good read. http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/08/19/this-is-what-conservative-media-think-a-transge/195448

A few lines from article.
Unlike Joseph's character, most people who are actually transgender make efforts to present and appear in a way that matches their gender identity. Transgender women don't typically walk around in men's clothing will full faces of facial hair. They don't typically refer to themselves as "a transgender." And they certainly don't stand outside of women's restrooms announcing themselves and asking passerbys for permission to "go in there... and change and shower and stuff."

For most transgender people, being outed in public - and especially in bathroom settings - can frequently result in harassment, discrimination, and even violence. Being identified as transgender can invite intense transphobic mistreatment, which is why "passing" - being regarded as a member of the sex that matches your gender identity - can be so important for many transgender people.

Quote from: Declan. on February 19, 2014, 05:51:34 PM
To be fair, I don't really think it's just that one thread/conversation. From my experience, it does feel like you'll get attacked on all sides if you say the wrong thing on this site, and that can be a stressful atmosphere for some - especially if their life off the boards is already full of conflict. I've never felt attacked, but seeing it happen to others is even worse than if it happened to me. I don't want to imagine what could happen if someone who's already on the edge gets treated like that.

There is a distinct difference between opinions about your own life and opinions about other peoples' lives. I've made that point before. That "opinion" does not magically protect abysmal behaviour. It is not a free pass to say whatever you please. And if someone says something nasty dressed up in an opinion like "you disgust me" then well, you get what you paid for. The end.

I don't have patience for people who essentially want to say incredibly nasty things about me, and then go "well it's just my opinion." If you are gonna go for radical free speech. Any one can say anything. And that means there aren't "attacks," just more, contradicting, opinions. jussmoi4nao said nasty things about people, and then some of those people said nasty things about her. That is all that happened. A flat failure of etiquette.

If it wasn't so fraught and stressful and distressing for so many members of our community. I'd be bored.

Quote from: locame on February 19, 2014, 06:01:18 PM
Not trying to invade or invite debate.

Jussmoi, I am sincerely grateful for your kind responses. I've had enough experience having differing opinions from the radfem community, and being shouted down so I seriously take no offense to the negatives. It all just makes me feel kind of sad for hurt people out there in the world.

Sarah, I would be interested to discuss what part of my terminology was bad. I didn't get any private messages to respond to (not that I can anyways, not having enough posts to do so apparently) If it was, I honestly just don't know it. In writing the original post, I researched terms so as to try not to offend anyone, but still ask the questions.

I will excuse myself from your space as well folks, as it was never my intention to cause any issues. However, I still am open to listening to ideas on where I might be going wrong in my preconceptions and/or terminology. I can be contacted at my user name here by any at gmail.com.

Not just those persons, but many responded helpfully, kindly, and understandingly. Props for that.

You. You got what you wanted. Good job. I hope the distress you've caused here has made up for the distress those trans women caused you. Oh WAIT IT CAN'T. Because we aren't the same trans people. Whoops. Guess two wrongs don't make a right after all.

To our new members. This is an emotionally charged topic. Susan's is a very safe place and can be trusted. Things like this topic happen every once in a while just like in public. Please do not judge our site based on this subject. This is not representative of us at all. You are safe, accepted and we do care. :)

Quote from: Sarah7 on February 19, 2014, 06:44:42 PM
There is a distinct difference between opinions about your own life and opinions about other peoples' lives. I've made that point before. That "opinion" does not magically protect abysmal behaviour. It is not a free pass to say whatever you please. And if someone says something nasty dressed up in an opinion like "you disgust me" then well, you get what you paid for. The end.

I don't have patience for people who essentially want to say incredibly nasty things about me, and then go "well it's just my opinion." If you are gonna go for radical free speech. Any one can say anything. And that means there aren't "attacks," just more, contradicting, opinions. jussmoi4nao said nasty things about people, and then some of those people said nasty things about her. That is all that happened. A flat failure of etiquette.

If it wasn't so fraught and stressful and distressing for so many members of our community. I'd be bored.

You. You got what you wanted. Good job. I hope the distress you've caused here has made up for the distress those trans women caused you. Oh WAIT IT CAN'T. Because we aren't the same trans people. Whoops. Guess two wrongs don't make a right after all.

Could you please quote the nasty things I said? I don't remember that. And I didn't see a whole lot of nastiness directed at me either, except by you, mostly, and a couple others.

I tried to be nice and graceful toward you because you have said kind things to me in the past, but this sidelining me and talking about me to other members on a topic *I* started? Not cool.

All I ever said was victim blaming (which is basically what this is a case of) was nasty and disgusting. Ironically, I'd been applauded for that in the past...when it related to transwomen. But now I'm hated for it because it's something you all have to deal with in YOURSELVES. Guess what? My opinions haven't changed. The things I said were directed at disgraceful, misogynistic behavior. I called NO one by name.

And you know what Sarah, the funny thing is, I'm not the one with a hero complex here. I am the arbiter of nothing. I am an opinionated bitch and I speak my mind. That's all. I have a perspective to offer just like anyone else...I think with all the attempts you make to shut down conversations that really should be had, you'd better back up and look in the mirror before you say that ->-bleeped-<- about me.

Sorry for the swearing, not sure if milder words like that are still banned.

But anyway, yeah, this has all left me emotionally drained. All I did was try to stand up for someone who was getting a lot of backlash for sharing a personal experience of harrassment. If you wana hate on me for that, okay, I don't want you on my side anyway.

But yeah seeya guys, bye.

Quote from: locame on February 19, 2014, 06:01:18 PM
Not trying to invade or invite debate.

Jussmoi, I am sincerely grateful for your kind responses. I've had enough experience having differing opinions from the radfem community, and being shouted down so I seriously take no offense to the negatives. It all just makes me feel kind of sad for hurt people out there in the world.

Sarah, I would be interested to discuss what part of my terminology was bad. I didn't get any private messages to respond to (not that I can anyways, not having enough posts to do so apparently) If it was, I honestly just don't know it. In writing the original post, I researched terms so as to try not to offend anyone, but still ask the questions.

I will excuse myself from your space as well folks, as it was never my intention to cause any issues. However, I still am open to listening to ideas on where I might be going wrong in my preconceptions and/or terminology. I can be contacted at my user name here by any at gmail.com.

Not just those persons, but many responded helpfully, kindly, and understandingly. Props for that.

I'm sorry as long as we're still on this topic .Am  I misinterpreting something or is locame saying she's part of the radfem community , which doesn't matter I was just curious.

Even assuming that original post about fears of the trans community were genuine, it put us all on the defensive. It was an unfair premise for the op (of that other post) to lump everybody together as if we were one giant cohesive community. Sure, we all have one thing in common, but it's not like we're a corporation with mission statement and can hold all members accountable.
So we were put in an untenable position if defense.
And that's just not fair, regardless of the intention if the original post.

No, Stefaniec, just the opposite. Asking why radfems take certain positions or behave certain ways causes a backlash of immense proportions. I could only expect the same in this topic, because it is all a very emotionally wrought subject from BOTH sides.

And yes, I realize now that the question was the same as if I asked "why do men just want to screw?" It is a generalization but I truly did wonder if it was the dysphoria itself that triggers an overcompensation effect, or if media plays a role in how someone not socialized female thinks that women act. I'm  glad to hear that it isn't a generalization to the whole trans community. But, you don't know until you meet those people. Done that now.

Quote from: locame on February 19, 2014, 08:44:23 PM
No, Stefaniec, just the opposite. Asking why radfems take certain positions or behave certain ways causes a backlash of immense proportions. I could only expect the same in this topic, because it is all a very emotionally wrought subject from BOTH sides.

And yes, I realize now that the question was the same as if I asked "why do men just want to screw?" It is a generalization but I truly did wonder if it was the dysphoria itself that triggers an overcompensation effect, or if media plays a role in how someone not socialized female thinks that women act. I'm  glad to hear that it isn't a generalization to the whole trans community. But, you don't know until you meet those people. Done that now.

I'm glad you realize that it not part of a dysphoric condition because if it was I would of blown my head of as a child.

Aloha justmoi,

I wish you the very best.

Seems this last week, our community went to war with one radical feminist and her invisible army.

So sorry to see there has been collateral damage.

You did nothing wrong. You will be missed.

Quote from: Tori on February 19, 2014, 09:05:47 PM
Aloha justmoi,

I wish you the very best.

Seems this last week, our community went to war with one radical feminist and her invisible army.

So sorry to see there has been collateral damage.

You did nothing wrong. You will be missed.

ditto

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 19, 2014, 07:24:15 PM
But anyway, yeah, this has all left me emotionally drained. All I did was try to stand up for someone who was getting a lot of backlash for sharing a personal experience of harrassment. If you wana hate on me for that, okay, I don't want you on my side anyway.

But yeah seeya guys, bye.

Hugs for a bright young lady.
Peace and love.  Katherine

haha. the sad part is the only reason anyone puts up with the OP's post is cuz she's pretty. If you say that stuff without a picture here, people freak and ban. But post your femmey face and ya get the affection of the vicarious masses who wanna spend another life in your clique. Let's be honest, it's not the fringe of the trans community. The whole MTF board oozes sex most of the time, whether it's T&A bs, weird internalized sexism/objectification, or just graphic sexualizing of people. Not even saying it's anyone's honest intention and not saying it's everyone here, just most. It's just warped, weird and overbearing views about women and about being a woman that are so out of touch. And yeah, wayyyyyy too much guilty libido. Freud would have a field day up in this place.... and it seems like even "hormones killing my icky man sex drive" (oh please) isn't enough for most...

Quote from: sad panda on February 20, 2014, 12:38:53 AM
haha. the sad part is the only reason anyone puts up with the OP's post is cuz she's pretty. If you say that stuff without a picture here, people freak and ban. But post your femmey face and ya get the affection of the vicarious masses who wanna spend another life in your clique. Let's be honest, it's not the fringe of the trans community. The whole MTF board oozes sex most of the time, whether it's T&A bs, weird internalized sexism/objectification, or just graphic sexualizing of people. Not even saying it's anyone's honest intention and not saying it's everyone here, just most. It's just warped, weird and overbearing views about women and about being a woman that are so out of touch. And yeah, wayyyyyy too much guilty libido. Freud would have a field day up in this place.... and it seems like even "hormones killing my icky man sex drive" (oh please) isn't enough for most...

Do you think what you are saying applies to me?

I'd like your honest opinion.  I've been so dispirited lately, by what I see, I am ready to pull the plug.

Quote from: sad panda on February 20, 2014, 12:38:53 AM
haha. the sad part is the only reason anyone puts up with the OP's post is cuz she's pretty. If you say that stuff without a picture here, people freak and ban. But post your femmey face and ya get the affection of the vicarious masses who wanna spend another life in your clique. Let's be honest, it's not the fringe of the trans community. The whole MTF board oozes sex most of the time, whether it's T&A bs, weird internalized sexism/objectification, or just graphic sexualizing of people. Not even saying it's anyone's honest intention and not saying it's everyone here, just most. It's just warped, weird and overbearing views about women and about being a woman that are so out of touch. And yeah, wayyyyyy too much guilty libido. Freud would have a field day up in this place.... and it seems like even "hormones killing my icky man sex drive" (oh please) isn't enough for most...

Redacted post, I was out line.

Sigh...

I am gonna' take a self-imposed time out.

The internets are getting WAY too serious.

i have posted my pic here a million times and that's a million times too many.... how I look is totally irrelevent but it changed how people treat me when I really have a horrible personality and I know it.... I mean that happens everywhere in the world it's just kinda especially bad in the trans community. let's be honest, all people care about when it comes to a trans girl is looks. It boils down to sex and sexiness. Especially in the general public but even people in the trans community, even if they're nice to unpassable trans people they're a little extra nice to very passable trans people. if you don't pass as a trans girl the worldhates you and if you pass the world doesn't know just how much soul crushing ->-bleeped-<- you are struggling through and you have to try so hard to feel like a human being but you aren't one. girls aren't human beings, they are bodies, esp if they're pretty bodies. Bad enough as a cis girl but as an outwardly cis girl with a massive hole inside you have to desperately hide from everyone it is impossible and the worst part is that NOBODY understands. Not trans people, nobody. They understand trans lesbians, husbands, fathers, army vets, hot blooded american dudes, act or not... they understand maleness and male history and life experience. They understand women in the context of sex and the greatest sin here is uncannily resembling an actual woman. Cuz all you are anywhere is a (passable) body. whatever.

jamie... I hope you're ok... :( my post isn't personal to anyone.... actually it's personal to me. This is my personal experience and it is a mix of things and I just wanna scream it sometimes.

tbh I am feeling pretty bad right now too so i shouldn't be posting... 

OK people.

I'm back, extremely tired so will not be doing much tonight but ................

I'm saddened, and my sadness will be actioned.

I'm very disappointed.

Cindy

Quote from: sad panda on February 20, 2014, 02:48:59 AM
i have posted my pic here a million times and that's a million times too many.... how I look is totally irrelevent but it changed how people treat me when I really have a horrible personality and I know it.... I mean that happens everywhere in the world it's just kinda especially bad in the trans community. let's be honest, all people care about when it comes to a trans girl is looks. It boils down to sex and sexiness. Especially in the general public but even people in the trans community, even if they're nice to unpassable trans people they're a little extra nice to very passable trans people. if you don't pass as a trans girl the worldhates you and if you pass the world doesn't know just how much soul crushing ->-bleeped-<- you are struggling through and you have to try so hard to feel like a human being but you aren't one. girls aren't human beings, they are bodies, esp if they're pretty bodies. Bad enough as a cis girl but as an outwardly cis girl with a massive hole inside you have to desperately hide from everyone it is impossible and the worst part is that NOBODY understands. Not trans people, nobody. They understand trans lesbians, husbands, fathers, army vets, hot blooded american dudes, act or not... they understand maleness and male history and life experience. They understand women in the context of sex and the greatest sin here is uncannily resembling an actual woman. Cuz all you are anywhere is a (passable) body. whatever.

jamie... I hope you're ok... :( my post isn't personal to anyone.... actually it's personal to me. This is my personal experience and it is a mix of things and I just wanna scream it sometimes.

tbh I am feeling pretty bad right now too so i shouldn't be posting... 

What the...

I had decided not to post anything unless I had transitioning questions, but...

Coming to the conclusion that I no longer desire women, losing my libido because of it, realizing it's because I feel like I am a woman, and then after months of denying it I decided to be a woman on the outside as well as in -  is this all that's left for me. If the stars align, the tide is right and god is answering prayers that day... I end this process actually looking to the world like the woman I feel inside and that is waiting? What's the point? Not able to live as a man, this is what I have to look forward to by becoming a woman.

Thanks for the imagery, the gun is starting to look good again.

I resent your broad spectrum remarks on how the world and particularly the trans community look at, and treat women though. Child, man and now a woman I have never even thought, even in the darkest part of my mind, of a woman like that.
I can't be a man, if being a woman will only bring pain, then I am done.

For all of you who have been so kind, thank you. I think I may not come back to this site.
If I decide to get out of bed today, and still decide to go through the process of living, I will do it as a woman. It is becoming increasing clear, however, that I will have to do it on my own.

Good bye.

OK. I've just got back from a long flight, had to deal with emergencies at home and now read all this rubbish.

Until my brain has caught up please everyone take a break.

No one excludes anyone from this site except GMs and Admin.

Everyones opinion is valid.

Everyone is welcome unless they break ToS and then staff will deal with it.

No one else.

So calm down and give me a chance to recover.

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 19, 2014, 03:37:56 PM



@Sarah7,

if I struck a nerve.

You did. But if you read her last, very extensive post/rant on *that* thread you'll see that's she's competing with the OP over who's the most 'victimised victim'....and trying to shut her up by using all kind of 'arguments' as some kind of 'inverted bragging'.

Quote from: jussmoi4nao on February 19, 2014, 03:16:08 PM


perhaps the product of years of immersion in masculine socialization many on this site endured is to blame for some of the disbelief.

the effects of being top dog in a sexist society for so long may have left some users out of touch on the reality of sexism and harrassment.

there are users on this board who have lived masculine lives for 40+ years, etc. and are not as attuned to what sexual harrassment and intimidation feels like. This is a reality.

The utmost hilarious thing about all this is....that some of  those MTF call themselves 'feminists' making *that* sound like some kind a (newly found) 'fetish'.

Perhaps you've noticed several posters leashed out at the OP first, calling her a liar  and then at me.....as I fully expected ;-)

And then there/were are some gruesome MTF stories about MTF sexually harrassed by MTF which, of course, were totally ignored.

Anyway, I'd like to thank you for your frank, honest posts and wish you all the best!

*non sexual* hug! ;-)