Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey guys and dolls,

That 'passing or acceptance' thread got me wondering. This is a hypothetical question too. Fantasy, but just to see how you all feel about things.

Picture an alternate universe where transgendered people are completely accepted as their true gender, passing notwithstanding. Where all one must do to be legally recognized as their gender is to request a change of birth certificate. No homophobia. No safety concerns. No discrimination. It's taken for granted that a transsexual who resembles the proverbial 'man in a dress' is a woman. In the eyes of the law and the population, we're the same as any other men and women.  

In this alternate universe, you are seen as, and accepted as none other than your true gender as is. No need for physical alterations. No need to adopt the clothes or mannerisms of your target gender.

Would you transition? If so, how far would you go? And why, if you are already accepted as your true gender would you change anything?

How far would you go?

1. Would you dress as your true gender?

2. Would you make an effort to shed any mannerisms or behaviours from your male/female upbringing and socialization?

For MtFs:

3. Would you grow your hair out?

4. Would you bother with electrolysis?

5. Would you bother with tucking?

6. Would you take estrogen?

7. Would you work on your voice?

8. Would you have SRS?

9. Would you have FFS?

10. Would you have breast implants?


For FtMs:

3. Would you cut your hair?

4. Would you bother with binding?

5. Would you bother with packing?

6. Would you bother with elevator shoes?

7. Would you take testosterone?

8. Would you have top surgery?

9. Would you have a hysterectomy?

10. Would you have bottom surgery (meta or phallo)?



In this alternate universe, how far would you go to achieve congruence? The items are numbered, so you can list the numbers you'd do if you like. As always, I appreciate elaboration.  :)

Eagerly awaiting your answers,
Nero

Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 01:13:45 AM
For MtFs:

Would you grow your hair out?

Would you bother with electrolysis?

Would you bother with tucking?

Would you take estrogen?

Would you work on your voice?

Would you have SRS?

Would you have FFS?

Would you have breast implants?

Yes... I would still want to be a woman in every sense, acceptance by society differs greatly from acceptance of ones self.

I would only ever be happy if my perception of me matched my reality, thats what Gender Identity Disorder for me was about.

An alternative universe where people could accept themselves, that would be wonderful.

Buffy

I think in such a universe I'd still do all the same things, because it's not the legal recognition that matters as much as being percieved and readily recognized as the correct gender in everyday life.  Just having an "M" instead of an "F" on my birth certificate wouldn't help anything, because unless I went around showing everybody my birth certificate, if I still looked and dressed like a woman, people would still perceive me that way.

So, yeah:

3. Would you cut your hair?  Yes

4. Would you bother with binding?  Yes

5. Would you bother with packing?  Maybe sometimes, but mostly not.

6. Would you bother with elevator shoes?  Nah, I'm medium height, and that's good enough.

7. Would you take testosterone? Absolutely.

8. Would you have top surgery?  Yes.

9. Would you have a hysterectomy?  Yes.

10. Would you have bottom surgery (meta or phallo)?  Not sure if I will ever do that, in this  or any other universe.  Actually, probably not.  If did, it would be meta, not phallo, but probably not at all.

Rob

Even in a transfriendly alternate universe, I'd still walk the path I'm on now, as my issue isn't just with how society sees me, it's how I see myself that matters.  All this isn't for someone else, it's for me.  To make me feel better about myself.

Quote
How far would you go?

1. Would you dress as your true gender?

Yeah.

Quote2. Would you make an effort to shed any mannerisms or behaviours from your male/female upbringing and socialization?

Yeah, albeit to a lesser extent; I would still make an effort to drop all that is an act (an what a mess that has gotten me into, lol; but I digress); I.e. the target would be for natural comfort. More or less what I am after currently;

Quote
For MtFs:

3. Would you grow your hair out?

Heh, yes. My hair hasn't been short since age 10 or so; I just got tired of not having long hair!

Quote4. Would you bother with electrolysis?

Yes, while male scruff is amusing at times it is an annoyance.

Quote5. Would you bother with tucking?

Tucking? You meant that isn't cruel fiction? ... I.e. it doesn't work.

Quote6. Would you take estrogen?

Oh most definitely yes.

Quote7. Would you work on your voice?

Yes, I despise what I have so ^*shrug* change is good yes? .. Probably to a lesser extent however; I might be happy with the ickyness that is current. (Which SO does not match my frame; I roughly sound like a 12yo boy);

Quote8. Would you have SRS?

Yes, definitely. That part was always an annoyance, I hate to say it but, yeah, surgery would still happen.

Quote9. Would you have FFS?

No, .. an I may or may not this world;

Quote10. Would you have breast implants?

Yes, I am not like being flat!




>.>
<.<

Quote
For FtMs:

3. Would you cut your hair?

Gah! I HOPE not; Guys are so sexy with long hair....

^.^

^.~



Fun query Nero (=

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm assuming I'm in a transfriendly universe when I make my decisions. I make them based on myself, not others. So I'd do the same as I do now: cut my hair, mostly not bother packing, take testosterone, hope for a hysto and definitely have top surgery.

Sorry Kimberley, some of us don't look good with long hair ;)

Dennis

Well, in an alternet universe where we cold be so open with who we were, i would imagaine hose of us who knew about this from an earlyage would have handled it then, and thu would not have need for doing some of the things e have to do when we wait until we are older.

How far would you go?

1. Would you dress as your true gender?
Yes, and would dress lik a guy sometimes as well. Wouldn't bind my cest, but still wear guyish clothes.

2. Would you make an effort to shed any mannerisms or behaviours from your male/female upbringing and socialization?
Yes, wouldn't try as hard, but some things would be let behind.

For MtFs:

3. Would you grow your hair out?
Yes, I love llng hair, except when itsin that in-between stage.

4. Would you bother with electrolysis?
Hopeully in this perect universe Iwould have startd hrt beore I started to grow hair. ><

5. Would you bother with tucking?
...yes, painful as it is, to be able to wear certain clothesbetter.

6. Would you take estrogen?
Yes, before puberty this time ><

7. Would you work on your voice?
Not as much as hopefully my voice wouldn't have droppd yet

8. Would you have SRS?
Yes, not for anyone else but for me

9. Would you have FFS?
I don't think I would/will need it, in that world or this one

10. Would you have breast implants?
no, not unless I really needed it

Yep, I'd still do whatever I could to make myself more female.

Being physically female *and* socially female are both necessities for me, being the critical halves of a package deal.

~Kate~

Quote from: Nero on July 13, 2007, 01:13:45 AM
1. Would you dress as your true gender?

2. Would you make an effort to shed any mannerisms or behaviours from your male/female upbringing and socialization?

For MtFs:

3. Would you grow your hair out?

4. Would you bother with electrolysis?

5. Would you bother with tucking?

6. Would you take estrogen?

7. Would you work on your voice?

8. Would you have SRS?

9. Would you have FFS?

10. Would you have breast implants?

Yes to all

QuoteHow far would you go?

1. Would you dress as your true gender?

For the most part, I endeavor to make the same choices in current life as I would in the hypothetical perfect universe, however as a person who is in between or neither gender and living in a rural area, it isn't necessarily safe to express who I am, so compromise happens, particularly in regard to clothing. I would love to dress however I wished with no worries.

Quote2. Would you make an effort to shed any mannerisms or behaviours from your male/female upbringing and socialization?

I have always rejected acting in a way that wasn't true to myself, I do what feels natural, regardless whether certain mannerisms are considered male or female. I'm often mistaken for female even when dressed male because of the way I am naturally.

QuoteFor MtFs:

3. Would you grow your hair out?

My hair is long, and has been for many years. In this perfect universe, I wouldn't be losing any hair on top of my head though :(

Quote4. Would you bother with electrolysis?

I am fortunate to have very light beard growth, and so wouldn't bother. I shaved off my beard many years ago when realizing that I was trans, however have sometimes considered a goatee. If societal attitudes were different I might indeed grow it along with wearing skirts and feminine clothing.

Quote5. Would you bother with tucking?

If the outfit requires, yes.  ::)

Quote6. Would you take estrogen?

If I had no concerns of health risks, yes I would.

Quote7. Would you work on your voice?

No. It took me years to get comfortable with and develop my baritone singing voice. I'd keep it just as it is.

Quote8. Would you have SRS?

9. Would you have FFS?

10. Would you have breast implants?

No on these last three.

Thanks for asking these wonderful questions Nero!

zythyra

Well.... ;)

I transitioned in a very unfriendly environment with many obstacles to overcome.

IF I could live my life again and the people in charge saw fit to put me into the same body as this life started, I'd start transition at 5 years old.  Yup.  I'd tell my parents I want to be a girl and never falter. I'd get rid of the testosterone producers before they'd ever go active.  I'd go for the complete change.

For kiddies.  I am a woman.  I'd want nothing less.

Cindi

Quote from: Debbie_Anne on July 13, 2007, 02:20:09 AM
Even in a transfriendly alternate universe, I'd still walk the path I'm on now, as my issue isn't just with how society sees me, it's how I see myself that matters.  All this isn't for someone else, it's for me.  To make me feel better about myself.

The only thing that would be different is I would have gone a lot faster and have finished when I was in grade school.  And my parents probably would have been the ones to give me my new name, so I don't know what it would be.

Intresting topic Nero!

3. Would you cut your hair? Yes

4. Would you bother with binding? Yes for me

5. Would you bother with packing? Yes for me again

6. Would you bother with elevator shoes? Um no and Im not now either

7. Would you take testosterone?  Yes

8. Would you have top surgery? Def

9. Would you have a hysterectomy? Yes

10. Would you have bottom surgery (meta or phallo)? Meta and see how that works out possible phallo just  not 100% sure on that one yet...

Maybe or Maybe not.

It's impossible to answer because I was not socialized in such a universe and I can't imagine what I would be like under that universe.

I will grow my hair out and get rid of my facial hair for sure. Maybe I will only transition after I have saved my sperm.  There will be less urgency for me to transition before i consider all my reproductive options I think, if the universe is completely transfriendly and understanding. Would I have SRS? I don't know. I still don't know if I will have it in *this* universe.

That's a lot of questions.  Here's my answers.

Would you transition?
Yes

If so, how far would you go?
All the way.

And why, if you are already accepted as your true gender would you change anything?
Because I need to be comfortable with who I am and what I look like.  There would also be some physical limitations by having the wrong body.

How far would you go?
As I said above, all the way.

1. Would you dress as your true gender?
Yes

2. Would you make an effort to shed any mannerisms or behaviors from your male/female upbringing and socialization?
Probably, although there wasn't much to shed.

3. Would you grow your hair out?
Yeah, long hair is fun.

4. Would you bother with electrolysis?
Yeah.  At this point, nobody can tell I have facial hair, yet I still continue to remove it.

5. Would you bother with tucking?
Probably not as much.  It hurts sometimes and I have to touch it, but I hate having the bulge there too.

6. Would you take estrogen?
Yes!!!

7. Would you work on your voice?
Yeah, but probably not as hard.

8. Would you have SRS?
Yes!!!

9. Would you have FFS?
No, and I may or may not in this world either.

10. Would you have breast implants?
I'm not sure.  It would depend on how well a bra fit.

In this alternate universe, how far would you go to achieve congruence?
As I said above a couple of times already, all the way.

erm if it were easier and cheaper and not so frowned on...

I would have electrolysis, I would dress mostly femme,

but to be honest I would prefer laser eye surgery first, then i could stop losing my glasses.

Quote from: Pica Pica on July 13, 2007, 03:49:12 PM
erm if it were easier and cheaper and not so frowned on...

I would have electrolysis, I would dress mostly femme,

but to be honest I would prefer laser eye surgery first, then i could stop losing my glasses.

awww. You look cute in glasses. That's part of your appeal.  ;)

awww stop it, I'm blushing

In a perfect world I would've confronted myself at 15(or possibly earlier) instead of running from the truth.

There wouldn't have been any shame to stop me. I would've fully transitioned as early as possible. I'd probably never have developed my social anxiety(that's still fixable), because there wouldn't be anything for me to worry about trying to hide. My Suicide attempt in college wouldn't have ever occurred. I'd probably be living on my own by now instead of still being stuck at home with my mother.

Sadly that alternate universe doesn't exist, what I really want though would've just been a world where I could've been born a girl in the first place. It's nice to dream.

~Marciel

I would love to find a society such as that. Let's see... I might be being a little overly predictable here, but I'll answer the questions like a good little boy.

D


For FtMs:

3. Would you cut your hair? Of course. I've always liked short hair, and I love it now. It's so much more versatile.

4. Would you bother with binding? Nope. I'm getting fairly accustomed to have "b**** tits" (Fight Club reference).

5. Would you bother with packing? Sometimes, yeah. I do sometimes now, because as strange as it sounds, packing FEELS good.

6. Would you bother with elevator shoes? Possibly, but only if they were more comfortable than the ones currently on the market. I like being a head above the rest.

7. Would you take testosterone? Most likely, no. However, if I were depressed and anti-depressants weren't working, I'd probably consider it to help my mind achieve homeostasis.

8. Would you have top surgery? Nope. Hell no. I don't need the pain, suffering, and financial havoc.

9. Would you have a hysterectomy? Nope. I want to have kids. And if I'm one of the first pregnant men? Who cares?

10. Would you have bottom surgery (meta or phallo)? No. Absolutely not. And definitely not with the way it is now. I won't do it as things are, and I wouldn't do it in a vacuum.

I like me. I like the way I am. I'm not quite sure who made the rule that breasts and a vagina make you female, whilst a penis and testicles make you male. I'd rather combat the rules than concede to them.

Dino

I believe our struggle with the outside world is secondary to the real struggle we have with ourselves. I am not surprised that acceptance really has little to do with the need to transition. It has always been about how I feel about myself. How others feel about me is only a consequence of how I feel about me. That means the solution can not lie with the answer to the struggle we have with the outside world. We have to change our bodies to satisfy this struggle we have been having with ourselves. Not to say it ends the struggle, but it certainly changes the struggle.

Anyway, I would still want to transition my body as much as possible to bring it in line with being a female body. In a really transgender friendly alternate universe there would be gods that turn us into real girls or guys.

Love always,
Elizabeth

1. Would you dress as your true gender?

I'd wear what I fancy, which is what i wear now. Passing does not come into my fashion sense.


2. Would you make an effort to shed any mannerisms or behaviours from your male/female upbringing and socialization?

I don't make an effort as it is I've pretty much always acted like a girl just now it makes sense.

For MtFs:

3. Would you grow your hair out?

My hair's short at the mo though a few months it was long and now i'm growing it out mid way, I'm a girl thus i treat my hair like any girl would.

4. Would you bother with electrolysis?

never had any don't need any, if i did have a beard i'd still want to be rid of it, bearded women are not pretty....

5. Would you bother with tucking?

never have, nothing's ever shown.

6. Would you take estrogen?

hell yes, being off hormones for me is hell.

7. Would you work on your voice?

yep.

8. Would you have SRS?

Yes, my two main motivations for having it would not be changed by a lack of transphobia

9. Would you have FFS?

Don't want it as is but if i were not too pretty i'd consider cosmetic surgery like any not too pretty girl would.

10. Would you have breast implants?

No. they freak me out.




I'd still transition exactly the same, I'm lucky enough to not be effected by an ounce of transphobia as I pass flawlessly.