Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Male to female transsexual talk (MTF) => Topic started by: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 02:48:45 PM Return to Full Version
Title: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 02:48:45 PM
Post by: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 02:48:45 PM
Hello,
I was reading some stuff about transexualism and I found one hypothesis from an author named Stoller:
He says that the transexualism may be caused by a strong bound between mother and son that never fades away, leading to an intense symbiosis between them. The son sees on the mother a model and identifies with her as a woman.
Also, usually transexuals have a historic of an absent or distant fathers. Even when the father is present, he is usually of a very passive nature and he doesn't express very well his masculinity, allowing the mother, on a masculinized position, to take over control of the family.
These marriages are often kept for many years, with constant arguments and without love or sex between wife and husband.
This is one hypothesis, but this is pretty much EXACTLY my life.
My mother was always very strong and a kind of masculinized woman, while my father was absent for most of my life.
My mother and father splitted when I was just a baby and they got back together only when I was 14 years old. Even then my father was still a very absent person. He was extremely passive and had no initiative at all. The marriage was kept for more 10 years and my mother and father were always arguing. I couldn't see any love on their relationship.
I always had and I still have an extreme bound with my mother. We can often "read each other's minds". I have spent my entire life close to her. We go out together, we have meals together, we watch television together. We live almost as if we were one.
But then there is another hypotesis, that says that transexualism is actually a defense from our minds to protect us from a behavior that we can't accept, as homosexuality. This also says that transsexualism can be a manifestation of a borderline identity disorder, as transsexuals share many common aspects with them, as cronical anxiety, isolationism, depression and low tolerance to stress.
Reading this, I must say I also agree and I identify with many of these lines. I never could accept or see myself as a gay man (as the subject of another topic), because, someway, I felt it wasn't right. I didn't want to feel attracted to men as a man, but I want it as a woman.
Do you girls agree or identify with any of these hypothesis as I have? I am sure there are many people here that knows much more than me. I was only doing some silly uncompromised research and found this.
I was reading some stuff about transexualism and I found one hypothesis from an author named Stoller:
He says that the transexualism may be caused by a strong bound between mother and son that never fades away, leading to an intense symbiosis between them. The son sees on the mother a model and identifies with her as a woman.
Also, usually transexuals have a historic of an absent or distant fathers. Even when the father is present, he is usually of a very passive nature and he doesn't express very well his masculinity, allowing the mother, on a masculinized position, to take over control of the family.
These marriages are often kept for many years, with constant arguments and without love or sex between wife and husband.
This is one hypothesis, but this is pretty much EXACTLY my life.
My mother was always very strong and a kind of masculinized woman, while my father was absent for most of my life.
My mother and father splitted when I was just a baby and they got back together only when I was 14 years old. Even then my father was still a very absent person. He was extremely passive and had no initiative at all. The marriage was kept for more 10 years and my mother and father were always arguing. I couldn't see any love on their relationship.
I always had and I still have an extreme bound with my mother. We can often "read each other's minds". I have spent my entire life close to her. We go out together, we have meals together, we watch television together. We live almost as if we were one.
But then there is another hypotesis, that says that transexualism is actually a defense from our minds to protect us from a behavior that we can't accept, as homosexuality. This also says that transsexualism can be a manifestation of a borderline identity disorder, as transsexuals share many common aspects with them, as cronical anxiety, isolationism, depression and low tolerance to stress.
Reading this, I must say I also agree and I identify with many of these lines. I never could accept or see myself as a gay man (as the subject of another topic), because, someway, I felt it wasn't right. I didn't want to feel attracted to men as a man, but I want it as a woman.
Do you girls agree or identify with any of these hypothesis as I have? I am sure there are many people here that knows much more than me. I was only doing some silly uncompromised research and found this.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Jamie D on February 28, 2014, 02:53:41 PM
Post by: Jamie D on February 28, 2014, 02:53:41 PM
I personally think that theory is balderdash. Similar things have been proposed to explain gay males.
We have a cross section of people on this site, from all over the world. Though this theory may describe your situation, it probably fails for most of us.
I am more inclined to think that "nature" plays a bigger role than "nurture" is ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism.
We have a cross section of people on this site, from all over the world. Though this theory may describe your situation, it probably fails for most of us.
I am more inclined to think that "nature" plays a bigger role than "nurture" is ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 03:03:42 PM
Post by: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 03:03:42 PM
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 28, 2014, 02:53:41 PM
I personally think that theory is balderdash. Similar things have been proposed to explain gay males.
We have a cross section of people on this site, from all over the world. Though this theory may describe your situation, it probably fails for most of us.
I am more inclined to think that "nature" plays a bigger role than "nurture" is ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism.
Besides identifying myself with those hypothesis, I agree that nature probably plays a bigger role. I believe that genetics and the effects of estrogen on the fetus can change the development of the brain from a male-pattern to a female-pattern. Being who we are is just the outcome of those changes...
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: stephaniec on February 28, 2014, 03:07:00 PM
Post by: stephaniec on February 28, 2014, 03:07:00 PM
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 28, 2014, 02:53:41 PMditto
I personally think that theory is balderdash. Similar things have been proposed to explain gay males.
We have a cross section of people on this site, from all over the world. Though this theory may describe your situation, it probably fails for most of us.
I am more inclined to think that "nature" plays a bigger role than "nurture" is ->-bleeped-<- and transsexualism.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Sarah Louise on February 28, 2014, 03:12:08 PM
Post by: Sarah Louise on February 28, 2014, 03:12:08 PM
Every theory under the sun has been made. Truth be told the authors are doing it for money or their degree.
Sorry, but my relationship with my mother wasn't that close.
Sorry, but my relationship with my mother wasn't that close.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Jane's Sweet Refrain on February 28, 2014, 03:17:03 PM
Post by: Jane's Sweet Refrain on February 28, 2014, 03:17:03 PM
I read Stoller two decades ago. His theory is generally sympathetic, but he was part of the general trend of pathologizing sexuality and transsexuality, a trend that has mostly come to an end. Yes, there will be people who's lived reality lines up with his theory. But if even 25% of children designated male at birth who had strong mothers and absent fathers ended up MTF transsexual, we'd have one of the largest voting blocks in the United States. ;D
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Jamie D on February 28, 2014, 03:23:30 PM
Post by: Jamie D on February 28, 2014, 03:23:30 PM
Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 03:03:42 PM
Besides identifying myself with those hypothesis, I agree that nature probably plays a bigger role. I believe that genetics and the effects of estrogen on the fetus can change the development of the brain from a male-pattern to a female-pattern. Being who we are is just the outcome of those changes...
Natalia, part of the reason that you identify with these theories is because they may have an element of truth for many people. Along the same lines of astrological charts and Chinese fortune cookies.
We are looking for answers, and this thing seems to fit.
That's why there are a number of TS folks out there who still cling to the discredited ->-bleeped-<- theory.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Colleen♡Callie on February 28, 2014, 03:48:30 PM
Post by: Colleen♡Callie on February 28, 2014, 03:48:30 PM
I don't know. I really don't like these theories as they seem to me to either be outdated, from the earlier days of trying to determine a cause, or an attempt to swing the diagnosis back to being a mental disorder to be cured through psychotherapy. Since both heavily rely on it being a variant manifestation of another disorder, or something we were raised to be or a manifestation of our confusion about something else, and by extension something that doesn't actually exist. If these theories were true, transitioning shouldn't help, and if these theories were to be accepted totally as the cause, transitioning would actually be denied to everyone, since being trans* isn't real, and thus they must instead treat the real issue behind our delusion. I don't like that implication, and history and evidence has shown otherwise in almost every case.
With a wide diversity of people in any group, you'll always find people that fit any theory you propose. That doesn't make it a sound theory. It should be representative of the whole group in someway.
With a wide diversity of people in any group, you'll always find people that fit any theory you propose. That doesn't make it a sound theory. It should be representative of the whole group in someway.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Randi on February 28, 2014, 04:02:37 PM
Post by: Randi on February 28, 2014, 04:02:37 PM
Not here. Although I was very close to my mother, my father was a very masculine man, a business owner, hunter and fisherman and a community leader. He bore a lot of resemblance to Ernest Hemingway and took me moose hunting in Canada when I was quite young. He died when I was ten, but we spent lots of time together doing manly things.
Of course I greatly admired my mother and wanted to be like her too. I still do. Before I started school I thought it was possible to become a girl by just changing my hair and clothing. I'm still not sure about that!
As for the homosexuality thing, I have never been attracted to men. I'm strictly gynephilic.
I don't think environment has much to do with it. My mother took DES Diethylsilbestrol to prevent miscarriage when pregnant with me. It's a potent endocrine disruptor. Fully one third of DES sons are transsexual.
Randi
Of course I greatly admired my mother and wanted to be like her too. I still do. Before I started school I thought it was possible to become a girl by just changing my hair and clothing. I'm still not sure about that!
As for the homosexuality thing, I have never been attracted to men. I'm strictly gynephilic.
I don't think environment has much to do with it. My mother took DES Diethylsilbestrol to prevent miscarriage when pregnant with me. It's a potent endocrine disruptor. Fully one third of DES sons are transsexual.
Randi
Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 02:48:45 PM
Also, usually transexuals have a historic of an absent or distant fathers. Even when the father is present, he is usually of a very passive nature and he doesn't express very well his masculinity, allowing the mother, on a masculinized position, to take over control of the family.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
Post by: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
Quote from: Colleen♡Callie on February 28, 2014, 03:48:30 PM
I don't know. I really don't like these theories as they seem to me to either be outdated, from the earlier days of trying to determine a cause, or an attempt to swing the diagnosis back to being a mental disorder to be cured through psychotherapy.
Yes, I just checked and this hypothesis is dated from 1982! Old stuff indeed!
Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on February 28, 2014, 03:23:30 PM
Natalia, part of the reason that you identify with these theories is because they may have an element of truth for many people. Along the same lines of astrological charts and Chinese fortune cookies.
Chinese fortune cookies are fun to read! ;D But yes those hypothesis don't give any explanation at all and I never believed them to be responsible for someone being transexual. I was just curious if this could be related with transexualism, as something with a bigger incidence within our group than within cis-people.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: stephaniec on February 28, 2014, 05:45:37 PM
Post by: stephaniec on February 28, 2014, 05:45:37 PM
I have a feeling the more the genetic code is unraveled and the complexity of different effects each gene has on the other and the extent of hormones effect on multiple levels of the genetic make up most of the understanding of gender will come from the complexity of the genetic environment, just my opinion.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Jamie D on February 28, 2014, 05:49:08 PM
Post by: Jamie D on February 28, 2014, 05:49:08 PM
Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
Yes, I just checked and this hypothesis is dated from 1982! Old stuff indeed!
Chinese fortune cookies are fun to read! ;D But yes those hypothesis don't give any explanation at all and I never believed them to be responsible for someone being transsexual. I was just curious if this could be related with transsexualism, as something with a bigger incidence within our group than within cis-people.
It makes sense that psychology is involved in our understanding of ourselves. I just am not a fan of broad, sweeping psychological theories that don't address key components of my own experience, and of the several parts of the transgender community.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: anais on February 28, 2014, 05:50:57 PM
Post by: anais on February 28, 2014, 05:50:57 PM
I have always wondered why i feel this way and for the moment there really isn't a real clear explanation which doesn't help with these feelings.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Missy~rmdlm on February 28, 2014, 06:04:34 PM
Post by: Missy~rmdlm on February 28, 2014, 06:04:34 PM
My parents did have a rotten marriage. But I feel the only effect on me from that was a delay in me learning to socialize with people, and a prime example of how -not- to live a marriage. My own seven year marriage was spectacular compared to my parents and only really failed due to my gender issues.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: FrancisAnn on February 28, 2014, 06:40:47 PM
Post by: FrancisAnn on February 28, 2014, 06:40:47 PM
I was very close with my mother & thought I was a little girl until my first day of grammar school. I was so dissapointed being told I was a boy & to sit on this side of the room. My father was not around much as a child & most of my time was spent with my mother. She wanted a little girl because her first child was a male. She knew I was a little girl at heart however in those days there were not any HRT or real treatments available to correct physical gender.
I've always been my mothers daughter & very glad to be. I wish very early in life there had been a way to stop the wrong hormones & start with the correct hormones so I could have developed into more of a girl & had a more normal life while my mother was alive. She would have been so proud of me to completely improve my body so I could have been her loving daughter.
So this is my short life story. Perhaps it helps others.
I've always been my mothers daughter & very glad to be. I wish very early in life there had been a way to stop the wrong hormones & start with the correct hormones so I could have developed into more of a girl & had a more normal life while my mother was alive. She would have been so proud of me to completely improve my body so I could have been her loving daughter.
So this is my short life story. Perhaps it helps others.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: FrancisAnn on February 28, 2014, 06:44:15 PM
Post by: FrancisAnn on February 28, 2014, 06:44:15 PM
Quote from: Natalia on February 28, 2014, 05:28:44 PMNatalia. You have such a beautiful face. I'm so glad for you. I hope you can have a great life as a beautiful woman. You deserve it GF. Enjoy.
Yes, I just checked and this hypothesis is dated from 1982! Old stuff indeed!
Chinese fortune cookies are fun to read! ;D But yes those hypothesis don't give any explanation at all and I never believed them to be responsible for someone being transexual. I was just curious if this could be related with transexualism, as something with a bigger incidence within our group than within cis-people.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Ltl89 on March 01, 2014, 05:58:19 AM
Post by: Ltl89 on March 01, 2014, 05:58:19 AM
Wow, this really describes my situation pretty well. I've always been very close to my mom. Besides that, I've had a very close relationship with my two sisters, one in particular. We used to call each other twins and would do everything together, included sometimes dressing up and doing makeup. Because I really looked up to all of them, I used to imitate or repeat much of their behavior. To say that this social upbringing could have impacted my view of other women and my own identity isn't all that shocking. I've come to accept that it probably does explain a good portion of why I am me. And I'm okay with that. Born this way or became this way, I am this way and can't change it. That's fine. It's coming to love the complete picture more than anything.
The only thing that doesn't add up is that my father wasn't passive persay. He was a strong typical Sicilian man. Masculine to his core. However, he was not really involved in everything with the family. He saw himself more as the financial caretaker and then he kind of let my mother run the show. I don't know.
The only thing that doesn't add up is that my father wasn't passive persay. He was a strong typical Sicilian man. Masculine to his core. However, he was not really involved in everything with the family. He saw himself more as the financial caretaker and then he kind of let my mother run the show. I don't know.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: FalseHybridPrincess on March 01, 2014, 06:03:41 AM
Post by: FalseHybridPrincess on March 01, 2014, 06:03:41 AM
I too have grown without a father and had a really strong relationship with my mom...
I also have a younger brother with whom i used to fight a lot...
I dont know if it has anything to do with me being trans...
I also have a younger brother with whom i used to fight a lot...
I dont know if it has anything to do with me being trans...
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Marina mtf on March 01, 2014, 09:18:39 AM
Post by: Marina mtf on March 01, 2014, 09:18:39 AM
as a only son of a strong "Taurus" Mediterranean woman I suppose that I was born at high risk :police:
Nevertheless not all the only sons, sensitive and shy of strong women are trans, otherwise here
we will be in legions :icon_help:
Every one of us has his own story which becomes HER own story :icon_chick: but it is just it, a story.
Hindsight is 20-20, they say, and also these theories are self fulfilling because each one of us picks
the one which justifies the unjustifiable :eusa_boohoo:, playing the music of the past, but the only
important thing is the trans present...
Nevertheless not all the only sons, sensitive and shy of strong women are trans, otherwise here
we will be in legions :icon_help:
Every one of us has his own story which becomes HER own story :icon_chick: but it is just it, a story.
Hindsight is 20-20, they say, and also these theories are self fulfilling because each one of us picks
the one which justifies the unjustifiable :eusa_boohoo:, playing the music of the past, but the only
important thing is the trans present...
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Eva Marie on March 01, 2014, 09:57:40 AM
Post by: Eva Marie on March 01, 2014, 09:57:40 AM
Weak father - check
Strong, domineering mother - check
Close to mother - bzzzzzzt......
My wife tried to convince me that I am trans because of my domineering mother; my wife had several run ins with my mother and knows whats she's like after those experiences. I never believed her theory but in the interest of trying to give her theories a fair shake I ran it by my therapist. This is what the therapist said:
Your wife's conclusions are very interesting. The same theory was espoused by Alfred Hitchcock in the movie "Psycho" concerning Norman Bates and his mother. Gender dysphoria is, however, biological - we have discarded the mother-blaming theories a long time ago, since they just didn't hold up.
Strong, domineering mother - check
Close to mother - bzzzzzzt......
My wife tried to convince me that I am trans because of my domineering mother; my wife had several run ins with my mother and knows whats she's like after those experiences. I never believed her theory but in the interest of trying to give her theories a fair shake I ran it by my therapist. This is what the therapist said:
Your wife's conclusions are very interesting. The same theory was espoused by Alfred Hitchcock in the movie "Psycho" concerning Norman Bates and his mother. Gender dysphoria is, however, biological - we have discarded the mother-blaming theories a long time ago, since they just didn't hold up.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: stephaniec on March 01, 2014, 10:02:07 AM
Post by: stephaniec on March 01, 2014, 10:02:07 AM
Quote from: Eva Marie on March 01, 2014, 09:57:40 AMyes, Alfred is one of my favorites
Weak father - check
Strong, domineering mother - check
Close to mother - bzzzzzzt......
My wife tried to convince me that I am trans because of my mother, because my wife had run ins with my mother and knows whats she's like after that experience. I never believed it but I ran her theory by my therapist. This is what she said:
Your wife's conclusions are very interesting. The same theory was espoused by Alfred Hitchcock in the movie "Psycho" concerning Norman Bates and his mother. Gender dysphoria is, however, biological - we have discarded the mother-blaming theories a long time ago, since they just didn't hold up.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Ryan55 on March 01, 2014, 10:51:24 AM
Post by: Ryan55 on March 01, 2014, 10:51:24 AM
I know I am a FTM, but I found this topic really interesting, My father was never there either, he split and my parents were divorced around the time I was born, so I became really close to my mom, who was domineering, so maybe it has the opposite effects for mothers and daughters in this scenario, where I feel like I need to be the man of the house and the strong one since my mom was working and doing her best to raise me, just found this interesting. I know gender dysphoria is biological, but I can see how theories like these pop up.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Virginia on March 02, 2014, 09:10:15 AM
Post by: Virginia on March 02, 2014, 09:10:15 AM
(DID survivor of childhood trauma with male and female alters chiming in)
Perhaps not transsexualism, but it is widely accepted by the psychological community that this kind of upbringing/relationship can play into a person needing to express themself as their gender not assigned at birth. It is quite common for people suffering from dissociative identity disorder/multiple personality disorder (DID/MPD) to have male and female alters.
In addition to a string of life threatening trauma, my early childhood was as you describe. With my innate ability to dissociate, I was able to break away from my mother's psychological fusion as an adolescent with a strong male alter and go on to live a very happy life. I was diagnosed as a transsexual in denial in 2009 when my female alter became self conscious and the ensuing battle for control of the body manifest itself as gender dysphoria. Despite my insistence that I did NOT want to be a girl, my gender therapist continued to push me to transition. Shrug. When the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Thank God I did not take her advice.
On switching to a new psychologist, I was diagnosed as an androgyne with adjustment disorder. A transition level of HRT brought psychological peace and my male and female alters continued to live completely separate lives to satisfy each one's narcissistic needs. Three years of therapy later with the onset of time/memory loss, flashback and nightmares, I was correctly diagnosed with PTSD and recommended for trauma recovery therapy.
I have been in psychodynamic treatment twice a week for DID for the last 2 years. Regardless of whether my 5 alters fuse or my male and female alters continue to need to maintain their separate lives, I am beginning to understand my childhood and the effect it had on me. The consolation of truth is peace.
Perhaps not transsexualism, but it is widely accepted by the psychological community that this kind of upbringing/relationship can play into a person needing to express themself as their gender not assigned at birth. It is quite common for people suffering from dissociative identity disorder/multiple personality disorder (DID/MPD) to have male and female alters.
In addition to a string of life threatening trauma, my early childhood was as you describe. With my innate ability to dissociate, I was able to break away from my mother's psychological fusion as an adolescent with a strong male alter and go on to live a very happy life. I was diagnosed as a transsexual in denial in 2009 when my female alter became self conscious and the ensuing battle for control of the body manifest itself as gender dysphoria. Despite my insistence that I did NOT want to be a girl, my gender therapist continued to push me to transition. Shrug. When the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Thank God I did not take her advice.
On switching to a new psychologist, I was diagnosed as an androgyne with adjustment disorder. A transition level of HRT brought psychological peace and my male and female alters continued to live completely separate lives to satisfy each one's narcissistic needs. Three years of therapy later with the onset of time/memory loss, flashback and nightmares, I was correctly diagnosed with PTSD and recommended for trauma recovery therapy.
I have been in psychodynamic treatment twice a week for DID for the last 2 years. Regardless of whether my 5 alters fuse or my male and female alters continue to need to maintain their separate lives, I am beginning to understand my childhood and the effect it had on me. The consolation of truth is peace.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Ltl89 on March 02, 2014, 09:53:22 AM
Post by: Ltl89 on March 02, 2014, 09:53:22 AM
Is it conclusive that it's all biological? I don't know because I'd imagine that certain social factors must play a role in how we experience gender as well as aiding us in finding our own identity in life. I'm really open to the idea that my upbringing may have influenced my perception of gender. While I used to feel I need to claim born this way as it has been with me since I was a kid and hasn't gone away regardless of all the effort I put into getting rid of the feelings, I'm really okay with it if it wasn't the case. It's still as much of a part of me if it is socially based rather than biological. And you and I don't need to prove ourselves to anyone. We are who we are and it's our right to be ourselves. So, I don't really mind social theories all too much. Even if they aren't right in the end, it shouldn't matter as long as they aren't used against us (and I realize that some are and that's wrong).
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Natalia on March 02, 2014, 10:40:12 AM
Post by: Natalia on March 02, 2014, 10:40:12 AM
Quote from: learningtolive on March 02, 2014, 09:53:22 AM
Is it conclusive that it's all biological? I don't know because I'd imagine that certain social factors must play a role in how we experience gender as well as aiding us in finding our own identity in life.
I think that, although the biological explanation is much more reasonable, we can't deny completely the psycological part. Perhaps the psycological is nothing more than a trigger. The way we have learned to see the world can activate hidden feelings and desires and make them flourish.
A lot of people have dominating mothers and strong bounds with them, but, sure, not all are transsexuals. But, perhaps, those who share this kind of history AND have the "transsexualism biological factor" (let's call it this way) can have their gender disphoria triggered, making our desires to live as the opposite gender really proeminent.
Perhaps (who knows?) if my history was different, then perhaps I could keep living the way I was, even with the biological part trying to tell me the opposite.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Kim 526 on March 02, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
Post by: Kim 526 on March 02, 2014, 11:50:54 AM
Hi,
My personal belief is, this is how I'm wired. I would still be gender variant even if I were raised by different parents.
My personal belief is, this is how I'm wired. I would still be gender variant even if I were raised by different parents.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Sydney_NYC on March 02, 2014, 01:07:50 PM
Post by: Sydney_NYC on March 02, 2014, 01:07:50 PM
I'm a firm believer that it's a physiology (whether it be DNA or something else) and not a social environmental influence. If may be that it's common for a child born as male who is transgender finds it easier to bond with their mother because they have a female brain. In my case, I was closer to my mom and than my dad. My dad was there and tried to be close, but he would try to beat the feminine nature that was in me. (Why transitioned later in life.) My parents separated 3 times (divorced on the last one when I was 12), but I spend 2 weekdays and every other weekend with him. (The lived in the same school district, so I just took two different buses depending on who I was staying with.)
Another thing is that as a child and as an adult, it has always been easier to associate and form friendships with women that it was with men. So I think the study is looking at the result more than the cause.
Another thing is that as a child and as an adult, it has always been easier to associate and form friendships with women that it was with men. So I think the study is looking at the result more than the cause.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 02, 2014, 01:11:33 PM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 02, 2014, 01:11:33 PM
My mother never really liked my and used to beat me with a shoe. Explain me please? lol.
It's a silly generalisation if you ask me, but then again, nobody did, so I will shut up!
It's a silly generalisation if you ask me, but then again, nobody did, so I will shut up!
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: E-Brennan on March 02, 2014, 05:25:01 PM
Post by: E-Brennan on March 02, 2014, 05:25:01 PM
I have zero relationship with my mother. I speak to her once, maybe twice per year at most.
That said, I have a faint suspicion that this might still have something to do with my trans issues. It can't all just be nature, right? Surely there's some nurture in there as well (or lack of it)?
That said, I have a faint suspicion that this might still have something to do with my trans issues. It can't all just be nature, right? Surely there's some nurture in there as well (or lack of it)?
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Sephirah on March 02, 2014, 06:07:21 PM
Post by: Sephirah on March 02, 2014, 06:07:21 PM
I'm inclined to think that as far as the "why"... well, there are a million threads describing a million commonalities among people. Some identifying with one, some identifying with more than one, but all woven together into the tapestry of life. And I think it's this tapestry which should be admired, rather than the threads which went into it.
Although I'm feeling rather emotional today, so I'll address the OP with regard to my own experience.
My father was... well... a grade-A miscreant. The sum total of everything bad in this world. He left me and my two brothers to fend for ourselves at a very young age, and my mother... well... she was an emotional wreck after the whole thing. That being said, it was the best thing he ever did. He was abusive, violent (physically and sexually, but I will say no more of that here), lazy, quick to blame the rest of the world for his shortcomings... and, yeah, basically an all round bad egg. So him leaving was, overall, the best thing that happened.
Because of this, I guess it could be said I developed a closer bond with my mother. Simply by virtue of her being the only immediate parental figure I had. However, in that time she hated herself, and blamed herself as a woman for caring about him. She attributed all of her weaknesses on being female, and tried to instil that in me. That I had to be strong because it was in my genes. That I had to take control of situations because I hadn't been born "some stupid, naïve girl who didn't know better".
Not to mention my grandfather. I idolised him. I mean properly idolised him. He built his life up from nothing. One of ten children in the 1930's, he was the typical "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guy. Made and lost a fortune because people played him for a fool since he was too nice to others and gave them whatever they wanted. He stepped up to the plate and became a sort of fill in father figure for me. And probably the best one I could have ever hoped for. Had I been a man, I would have wanted to be like him. Or have his traits. I guess I still do, in a way.
If anything, all the signs were pushing me towards being like my grandfather, and wanting me to be like he was. Part of me will always try to be, because he was one of the best people I've ever known.
But... uh... yeah... I guess what I'm saying is that given my relationship, or lack thereof, with my father... I don't think it was my relationship with my mother or anyone else which caused me to be who I am. I think rather I found myself and acknowledged the aspects of people close to me along the way.
Although I'm feeling rather emotional today, so I'll address the OP with regard to my own experience.
My father was... well... a grade-A miscreant. The sum total of everything bad in this world. He left me and my two brothers to fend for ourselves at a very young age, and my mother... well... she was an emotional wreck after the whole thing. That being said, it was the best thing he ever did. He was abusive, violent (physically and sexually, but I will say no more of that here), lazy, quick to blame the rest of the world for his shortcomings... and, yeah, basically an all round bad egg. So him leaving was, overall, the best thing that happened.
Because of this, I guess it could be said I developed a closer bond with my mother. Simply by virtue of her being the only immediate parental figure I had. However, in that time she hated herself, and blamed herself as a woman for caring about him. She attributed all of her weaknesses on being female, and tried to instil that in me. That I had to be strong because it was in my genes. That I had to take control of situations because I hadn't been born "some stupid, naïve girl who didn't know better".
Not to mention my grandfather. I idolised him. I mean properly idolised him. He built his life up from nothing. One of ten children in the 1930's, he was the typical "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guy. Made and lost a fortune because people played him for a fool since he was too nice to others and gave them whatever they wanted. He stepped up to the plate and became a sort of fill in father figure for me. And probably the best one I could have ever hoped for. Had I been a man, I would have wanted to be like him. Or have his traits. I guess I still do, in a way.
If anything, all the signs were pushing me towards being like my grandfather, and wanting me to be like he was. Part of me will always try to be, because he was one of the best people I've ever known.
But... uh... yeah... I guess what I'm saying is that given my relationship, or lack thereof, with my father... I don't think it was my relationship with my mother or anyone else which caused me to be who I am. I think rather I found myself and acknowledged the aspects of people close to me along the way.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: BunnyBee on March 02, 2014, 06:50:20 PM
Post by: BunnyBee on March 02, 2014, 06:50:20 PM
My father was not distant. My mother was not domineering. If this theory has any merit, it does not apply to me. But, I do believe that most things can be arrived at from more than one angle. Anyway, the biological explanation has always rung true for me.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Marina mtf on March 03, 2014, 09:09:53 AM
Post by: Marina mtf on March 03, 2014, 09:09:53 AM
I am starting to think that TG issues could be (for some) a sort of "safety" valve, like in a pressure cooker.
That explains later transitions, at least could explain mine, in the sense that some TS-TG, maybe for character or
biological differences, have a Disphoria that can be maintained at a safety level for years... than a trigger event
or a series of events make the pressure build up.
A "normal" man may have other safety valves: alcohol, drugs, dangerous sports, and also some of TS before
coming out to themselves have tried those routes. Then a "normal" man stays man, we TS have also this
other safety measure.
That explains later transitions, at least could explain mine, in the sense that some TS-TG, maybe for character or
biological differences, have a Disphoria that can be maintained at a safety level for years... than a trigger event
or a series of events make the pressure build up.
A "normal" man may have other safety valves: alcohol, drugs, dangerous sports, and also some of TS before
coming out to themselves have tried those routes. Then a "normal" man stays man, we TS have also this
other safety measure.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: ToniB on March 03, 2014, 10:02:47 AM
Post by: ToniB on March 03, 2014, 10:02:47 AM
My experience seems to be The polar opposite to this theory I am the only boy in a family of 4 and the eldest .I had a totaly Macho he man type father .But my mother absolutely hated Boys me included .So no matter what I did it was not good enough always had look at how lovely your sisters look or how well behaved they are even though I was doing the same as them .The girls as all siblings do soon worked out that they could blame Me for everything so they ganged up and said I did it even if I was not there at the time.and Mum would always believe them .But the hard part for Me was that I was far more like Mum than I was my Dad .Mum was a Bright inteligent woman in a high power Job ,Dad was just working on a building site and hab no Time for education .And I was deemed as well above average inteligence and naturally was inclined towards my Mum for support but never got it always being put down and compared to the Girls one of whom was even brighter than Me so I got an exelent report from School she got a better one and Mum put me down with it .All I ever wanted was to please her but never could .I think some of my Transgender feelings come from wishing I was a girl so Mum would love Me too.In her defence I later found out after Mum died that she had such a bad time giving birth to Me that she nearly Died and could not forgive Me for the pain and suffering she felt.I truly believe that if I was a Girl my life would have been so very different .The sort of thing that I suffered was this sort of thing .Mum wanted to go to spain on a family holliday all the girls went but I was sent to stay at my Nan's as she would not have Me around Her.So a Nurturing Mum in my case was absolutely not a factor in my transgender development
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: stephaniec on March 03, 2014, 10:13:38 AM
Post by: stephaniec on March 03, 2014, 10:13:38 AM
for me it's nothing more than genetics. I developed this situation when I was 4. Absolutely nothing in my environment from four onwards was anything other then normal loving parents and the same environment everyone else dealt with. There could of been things in the environment ,but I didn't see them And I've analyzed my past quite critically.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: bunnymom on March 03, 2014, 12:53:42 PM
Post by: bunnymom on March 03, 2014, 12:53:42 PM
Time for the guilty parent in me to jump in:
My darling child has a Strong Mother, but Dad was a bit of a bully. He is masculine, and not very passive. He is much mellower in his aging and has become somewhat "wussified" in recent years. Oh and the arguments over our 20+ years have been a deeply scarring experience to our kid. So, some of the theory put forth can be seen as parallel. But I see the strong bond stuff as a result of the child's general nature to begin. We can try to 'blame' environment, but forget that the association may go both ways. Is it a cause or a result of one's nature?
I prefer to see my kid as a whole person. We parents won't be around forever. She will become her own self, as a product of her genetics and nurture. I refuse to allow 'blame'. It doesn't fix anything.
My darling child has a Strong Mother, but Dad was a bit of a bully. He is masculine, and not very passive. He is much mellower in his aging and has become somewhat "wussified" in recent years. Oh and the arguments over our 20+ years have been a deeply scarring experience to our kid. So, some of the theory put forth can be seen as parallel. But I see the strong bond stuff as a result of the child's general nature to begin. We can try to 'blame' environment, but forget that the association may go both ways. Is it a cause or a result of one's nature?
I prefer to see my kid as a whole person. We parents won't be around forever. She will become her own self, as a product of her genetics and nurture. I refuse to allow 'blame'. It doesn't fix anything.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: Ltl89 on March 03, 2014, 06:27:39 PM
Post by: Ltl89 on March 03, 2014, 06:27:39 PM
Quote from: tbunny on March 03, 2014, 12:53:42 PM
Time for the guilty parent in me to jump in:
My darling child has a Strong Mother, but Dad was a bit of a bully. He is masculine, and not very passive. He is much mellower in his aging and has become somewhat "wussified" in recent years. Oh and the arguments over our 20+ years have been a deeply scarring experience to our kid. So, some of the theory put forth can be seen as parallel. But I see the strong bond stuff as a result of the child's general nature to begin. We can try to 'blame' environment, but forget that the association may go both ways. Is it a cause or a result of one's nature?
I prefer to see my kid as a whole person. We parents won't be around forever. She will become her own self, as a product of her genetics and nurture. I refuse to allow 'blame'. It doesn't fix anything.
Oh yeah, I don't think blaming is really productive. However, I do wonder if the strong influence of my mother and sisters did play a role in me becoming who I am. I'm sure it's impacted me in many different ways, so is it such a stretch to imagine my early ideas of gender were formed with what I experienced around me? I'm not sure. All I know is that I've been "me" for so long and that I couldn't change this. I'll accept born this way as it makes sense, but I'm open to learning more about myself if it can help me understand who I am. And learning to understand who I am is one of the first steps to learning to love myself which is still a work in progress.
Quote from: Sephirah on March 02, 2014, 06:07:21 PM
I'm inclined to think that as far as the "why"... well, there are a million threads describing a million commonalities among people. Some identifying with one, some identifying with more than one, but all woven together into the tapestry of life. And I think it's this tapestry which should be admired, rather than the threads which went into it.
Although I'm feeling rather emotional today, so I'll address the OP with regard to my own experience.
My father was... well... a grade-A miscreant. The sum total of everything bad in this world. He left me and my two brothers to fend for ourselves at a very young age, and my mother... well... she was an emotional wreck after the whole thing. That being said, it was the best thing he ever did. He was abusive, violent (physically and sexually, but I will say no more of that here), lazy, quick to blame the rest of the world for his shortcomings... and, yeah, basically an all round bad egg. So him leaving was, overall, the best thing that happened.
Because of this, I guess it could be said I developed a closer bond with my mother. Simply by virtue of her being the only immediate parental figure I had. However, in that time she hated herself, and blamed herself as a woman for caring about him. She attributed all of her weaknesses on being female, and tried to instil that in me. That I had to be strong because it was in my genes. That I had to take control of situations because I hadn't been born "some stupid, naïve girl who didn't know better".
Not to mention my grandfather. I idolised him. I mean properly idolised him. He built his life up from nothing. One of ten children in the 1930's, he was the typical "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" guy. Made and lost a fortune because people played him for a fool since he was too nice to others and gave them whatever they wanted. He stepped up to the plate and became a sort of fill in father figure for me. And probably the best one I could have ever hoped for. Had I been a man, I would have wanted to be like him. Or have his traits. I guess I still do, in a way.
If anything, all the signs were pushing me towards being like my grandfather, and wanting me to be like he was. Part of me will always try to be, because he was one of the best people I've ever known.
But... uh... yeah... I guess what I'm saying is that given my relationship, or lack thereof, with my father... I don't think it was my relationship with my mother or anyone else which caused me to be who I am. I think rather I found myself and acknowledged the aspects of people close to me along the way.
That was beautiful Seph. Thank you for sharing.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: amZo on March 03, 2014, 06:36:51 PM
Post by: amZo on March 03, 2014, 06:36:51 PM
QuoteHe says that the transexualism may be caused by a strong bound between mother and son that never fades away, leading to an intense symbiosis between them. The son sees on the mother a model and identifies with her as a woman.
Also, usually transexuals have a historic of an absent or distant fathers. Even when the father is present, he is usually of a very passive nature and he doesn't express very well his masculinity, allowing the mother, on a masculinized position, to take over control of the family.
These marriages are often kept for many years, with constant arguments and without love or sex between wife and husband.
This is pretty close to my upbringing. Except my father had no concept of a passive nature, but he was very distant. :o
I don't feel this has a connection to my dysphoria.
Title: Re: Mother-son relationship and transexualism
Post by: vlmitchell on March 03, 2014, 07:20:55 PM
Post by: vlmitchell on March 03, 2014, 07:20:55 PM
Okay, sure, there's a million theories out there as to the big'ol 'why' question but, in reality, we have no freaking clue. Science has guesses, psychology has guesses, religions have guesses but, at the end of the day, it just kinda is what it is.
You'll find plenty of peeps here that have similar stories but, statistically, that's 1 out of every 10 marriages that end this way and has gone up for a long, long time. If everyone who had a strong mother (something that happened a lot more in the late 70's, early 80's and thereafter) and a not-there dad went trans, we'd have millions and millions of trans peeps all over the country. We don't and furthermore, not every trans story goes like this. Perhaps 1/2 and a loooot of peeps on this board have this experience because the breakup of those families left many of us in more fragile mental states.
Correlation is not causation, cupcakes.
Do your thing. Don't worry so much about the why. It just leads to chasing your tail for no good reason... and you'll not get a satisfying answer until someone with a lot of money, a lot of interest, a couple of PhD's and a lot of their peers gets on this topic for 50 or so years (which is to say, probably not for a loooong time, sweetpeas.)
You'll find plenty of peeps here that have similar stories but, statistically, that's 1 out of every 10 marriages that end this way and has gone up for a long, long time. If everyone who had a strong mother (something that happened a lot more in the late 70's, early 80's and thereafter) and a not-there dad went trans, we'd have millions and millions of trans peeps all over the country. We don't and furthermore, not every trans story goes like this. Perhaps 1/2 and a loooot of peeps on this board have this experience because the breakup of those families left many of us in more fragile mental states.
Correlation is not causation, cupcakes.
Do your thing. Don't worry so much about the why. It just leads to chasing your tail for no good reason... and you'll not get a satisfying answer until someone with a lot of money, a lot of interest, a couple of PhD's and a lot of their peers gets on this topic for 50 or so years (which is to say, probably not for a loooong time, sweetpeas.)