Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey hey peoples :-)

I have been FT since August, and I was part time for a good while longer. I am not yet over being afraid of the public. Hell, I am still afraid of anyone who doesn't know that I am trans. I have a group of cis girl friends who dont know that I am trans and I am constantly afraid of being read. Less so with them, as they haven't read me up until now, but in public its still really hard. I can sit in my car not wanting to get out, for fear of being read and people staring at me.

When will it stop? When will I be able to walk out in public without having to catch my breathe? At the momentI am thinking when I am more confident in my passing ability, which is probably post ffs, but I suppose its not a good idea to consider *anything* to be a silver bullet.

I ask myself if I can live constantly worrying about how people see me. Its something that I thought would have gone by now and its interfering with my ability to function, socially. Detransition is not something that I can even consider doing. So here I am, stuck in the poisition of having to 'get over it' but not knowing how to, or when it will end.

I know nobody can say, it will take this long, but I feel a little lost.

Does anyone have any advice for me?

Thanks Akira x

How long have you been on HRT? :)

10m and 4 days according to my ticker.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 02, 2014, 01:22:19 PM
I ask myself if I can live constantly worrying about how people see me. Its something that I thought would have gone by now and its interfering with my ability to function, socially.

This is something women have dealt with for a long time. Watching ourselves. Granted, it is a little different since you're worried about being "found out?" But how would they "find out?" As long as you have had laser or whatnot, you should be fine. I have never seen a whole body pic of you so I can't be certain that there aren't other elements that would give you away, but I know in my own case the one thing people say, said, whatever, is why does she have that facial hair. I think that is the main tell for most people. Or, on the flip side for FTMs, a lack of it. But people gender by the face and not as often by the body. But they do sometimes. I know I was wearing a heavy men's coat one day and this homeless man was about to say something and he saw my face and was all "Uh, excuse me,that's a woman" after he saw my face and I looked him in the eyes. So, needless to say, I don't wear the coat that much, but you get my point.

The thing is women get watched and that play's on our psyche. I know I ask myself how somebody else sees me all the freaking time. Sometimes I think I look pretty and other times completely ugly. It's just one of those things. For me, I haven't had laser and there is a little I can do in the way of FFS beyond a nose job, which will only prettify me, it won't make me pass or not pass. I have no idea if this helps but all I can do is relate and say, I feel ya.The other day it was really bothering me and what I did was opened up my coat so people would stop looking at my eyes and start looking at my boobs lol true story

And I live in a huge city so escaping from the public isn't an option. I see thousands of people a day.

These two pictures are probably most like me at the moment.



I dress considerately for my body type and my body is more female then my face, at least with clothes on. I have some curves, though I would like more, I would say that my body helps me pass rather than hinders passing.

I am not really looking for overly optimistic appraisals of how female I look.  I don't mind realistics cold hard truth appraisals, but being nice to me when I don't deserve it will come back to bite me in public later.

Its not all about physical though is it? Its psychological too.

I thin your just one of the many who are way to self critical . You look  very much a woman. No one would blink an eye thinking any thing other then just another pretty lady walking by

Well, you look great but I would lose the scarf. Anytime I see someone wearing a scarf, I think she must be trying to hide her adam's apple. And now with the whole Bruce Jenner tracheal shave thingy that's only going to be amplified.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 02, 2014, 01:34:35 PM
10m and 4 days according to my ticker.

Sorry, this blonde just got up, long night. Have they UPPED your HRT lately? When me levels got low the fear would sometimes be in my head, but I was not paralyzed by it. Increases helped a lot. :)

Sweetie, I know this is hard, but how you think people see you is based largely on how you see yourself. And those feelings you project onto others.

You are properly beautiful, but me saying that won't make an ounce of difference if you can't see it yourself.

When will it stop? It will stop when you accept yourself. Then you won't be worrying if others accept you.

*hugs*

Can you see a therapist? I mean not a gender therapist, preferably a cis woman who works with anxieties and fears. Therapy can be a great place to have a safe relationship while learning to validate yourself.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 02, 2014, 01:40:37 PM
This is something women have dealt with for a long time. Watching ourselves. Granted, it is a little different since you're worried about being "found out?" But how would they "find out?" As long as you have had laser or whatnot, you should be fine. I have never seen a whole body pic of you so I can't be certain that there aren't other elements that would give you away, but I know in my own case the one thing people say, said, whatever, is why does she have that facial hair. I think that is the main tell for most people. Or, on the flip side for FTMs, a lack of it. But people gender by the face and not as often by the body. But they do sometimes. I know I was wearing a heavy men's coat one day and this homeless man was about to say something and he saw my face and was all "Uh, excuse me,that's a woman" after he saw my face and I looked him in the eyes. So, needless to say, I don't wear the coat that much, but you get my point.

The thing is women get watched and that play's on our psyche. I know I ask myself how somebody else sees me all the freaking time. Sometimes I think I look pretty and other times completely ugly. It's just one of those things. For me, I haven't had laser and there is a little I can do in the way of FFS beyond a nose job, which will only prettify me, it won't make me pass or not pass. I have no idea if this helps but all I can do is relate and say, I feel ya.The other day it was really bothering me and what I did was opened up my coat so people would stop looking at my eyes and start looking at my boobs lol true story

And I live in a huge city so escaping from the public isn't an option. I see thousands of people a day.

I know it's difficult to look at things that way I tend to look at things, but the thing is this is who you are the hell be damned what others think.

I don't see any problems in those pictures.  There is no way I'd read that person as anything other than female.

I wish I could give you some advice, but I'm in the same boat, just much further behind. 

Good luck.  I hope it gets easier for you. 

Your are beautiful and unremarkably female. Many genetic women would love to have your looks. I think all it takes is self confidence and go out there..

I do not care whether I pass or not. It is their business, not mine.

My low voice easily reveals my biological sex. Nevertheless, I interact with people in the street. Asking the direction or the price. People watch me, and I enjoy it, especially when beautiful ladies study me.

Even if they know my biological sex, then what is the problem? Are they going to have sex with me? No. And, what's the matter? Mostly they are interested in my money and performance, not in my biological sex.

barbie~~

I used to be that way, it was to the point that I was abusing pain killers to be able to get out and even go grocery shopping. Then I took a huge chance and got a job working at a local store that everyone goes to. It was difficult for me at first, but in time, I adjusted and got to where I didn't think about being anxious or anything. Now I actually like it, don't care if I get read or not and apparently people see me as confident enough that they don't give me a hard time, even the ones that I know have issues with me being trans.

Quote from: barbie on March 02, 2014, 02:42:04 PM
I do not care whether I pass or not. It is their business, not mine.

My low voice easily reveals my biological sex. Nevertheless, I interact with people in the street. Asking the direction or the price. People watch me, and I enjoy it, especially when beautiful ladies study me.

Even if they know my biological sex, then what is the problem? Are they going to have sex with me? No. And, what's the matter? Mostly they are interested in my money and performance, not in my biological sex.

barbie~~

I think they like your ability to dress quite fashionably

Quote from: barbie on March 02, 2014, 02:42:04 PM
I do not care whether I pass or not. It is their business, not mine.

My low voice easily reveals my biological sex. Nevertheless, I interact with people in the street. Asking the direction or the price. People watch me, and I enjoy it, especially when beautiful ladies study me.

Even if they know my biological sex, then what is the problem? Are they going to have sex with me? No. And, what's the matter? Mostly they are interested in my money and performance, not in my biological sex.

barbie~~

Words of wisdom Barbie! Confidence sells yourself to YOU. After that it sells to everyone. :)

Honestly your face really looks female - and you have really cute dimples :3

If you say your body is more feminine than your face, I can tell you right now your worry is all in your head because your face definitely looks female. Not just female, but good looking female.

I've been lucky in this regard, as a teen I was always quite rebellious and having long hair and being into the whole alternative music scene made going out dress feminine all the more easier.

Yes people took notice and very occasionally some would voice their disapprovement (Lived in London so most keep to them selves) but generally if you keep your head up (both metaphorically and physically) people will be accepting and sometimes even supportive, if not just curious. Yes there is the potential for more threatening encounters but it's generally obvious to see where that may be likely (places out of view from people/isolated/dark). But unless there is a likely risk of danger to you, it's worthwhile getting on with your life whether other disapprove or not. I still find it some what stressful in situations where people disapprove but I remind myself they're not indecent people (and those who are are very unlikely to to act out with others around) and I'm as safe as any other minority.

You look perfectly female enough but if you do get any hassle remember that you are who you are, anyone can challenge you in being unhappy with that but will always fail as long as you remain happy with who you are.

Quote from: stephaniec on March 02, 2014, 02:47:33 PM
I think they like your ability to dress quite fashionably

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on March 02, 2014, 02:48:26 PM
Words of wisdom Barbie! Confidence sells yourself to YOU. After that it sells to everyone. :)

Yes. Self-confidence is the most important, and tastefulness is an extra. When I was in the U.S., some people disapproved me because of their religion. But here in my country, nobody does it based on their religion.

Most women I interact with wear plain and dull dresses for working. Guys usually comment that those girls should learn from me regarding fashion, and take care more of their appearance. Those girls praise my fashion items or hair styles.

Sometimes I intentionally reveal my biological sex by my low voice. Some female staffs or workers in restaurant or market treat me badly, showing some hostility. In that case, I reveal my voice, and they immediately make a big smile, greeting me happily.

barbie~~

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 02, 2014, 02:01:54 PM
Well, you look great but I would lose the scarf. Anytime I see someone wearing a scarf, I think she must be trying to hide her adam's apple. And now with the whole Bruce Jenner tracheal shave thingy that's only going to be amplified.

I really don't think other women are thinking this way!

The scarfs are real popular where I live....she would blend right in!! I wish I could coordinate to wear mine more often!

Kira I think your very much like me early on...even now I have my insecurities but not as much about how I appear but rather how I fit in...I too try to look nice when leaving the house, most times its still casual but nice. The times I am looking better or dressed for my figure is when I feel other women do not like me...but I get that same feeling towards some of the women that are also a little more high maintenance.

I think we are much alike...I consider my body shape my biggest female marker and feel that I am not that attractive compared to most women...but I have been told otherwise. You look fine!! Are you beautiful? I don't know? everyone's definition is different....but you are far from ugly and definitely above average. The dimples are a definite plus!!

I've been told by a number of men that I am attractive....I never believe them and think their just being nice. I wish I knew if they were being honest.

Quote from: barbie on March 02, 2014, 03:30:24 PM
When I was in the U.S., some people disapproved me because of their religion.

Could you expand on this? How did they show their disapproval? Just curious because I live in a rather conservative area in the US.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on March 02, 2014, 02:02:56 PM
Sorry, this blonde just got up, long night. Have they UPPED your HRT lately? When me levels got low the fear would sometimes be in my head, but I was not paralyzed by it. Increases helped a lot. :)

Yes I have upped my dose slightly. my oestrogen went up to 125% WIth a small increase, I am not sure if that plays *too* much of a factor. Its not like it just started :-/

Quote from: Sephirah on March 02, 2014, 02:07:50 PM
Sweetie, I know this is hard, but how you think people see you is based largely on how you see yourself. And those feelings you project onto others.

You are properly beautiful, but me saying that won't make an ounce of difference if you can't see it yourself.

When will it stop? It will stop when you accept yourself. Then you won't be worrying if others accept you.

*hugs*

That sounds very wise. I know its all fear as I have not been identifiably read so far, but its mirror talking in my head not the read I get on the faces of others.

Sad Panda: I am afraid that I don't have the money for a therapist.

Izzy and LtL: Thanks :-)

Barbie: I used to present as a very camp man and that never bothered me at all, in fact I liked it. Now, I am scared. Properly scared.

Jamie D: I work with people too in the next city. I am still worried amongst them. Even people that I have known as me for months. It has got better though. The public is still a problem for me.  Hmmmm, maybe you are right though. Maybe I just need to make it normal. Project tme :-)

ath: Thank you :-) My body is probably my strongest female indicator. I rarely question its passability and when I see head only mirror I have a much bigger problem than full length.

Trillium: I understand that and I thought that transition would be very easy on me in that respect.

This is my before picture http://neuronet.highlyillogical.org/cd/16.jpg

I was very wrong.

Just Shelly: Yep, girls around here wear a lot of scarfs. I was at a dress making class last week and, out of nearly ten, there was one who wasn;t wearing a scarf. I think, like with you, it will just resolve itself slowly, but I am not the kind of girl to not push things along and face things head on if I can.

Thanks everyone. :-)

x

Quote from: ath on March 02, 2014, 03:40:43 PM
Could you expand on this? How did they show their disapproval? Just curious because I live in a rather conservative area in the US.

I lived in rural, southern Maryland where most people are Catholic with Irish heritage. Not all of them, but some of them openly revealed their hostility to me. I have never experienced such hostility based on religion in other countries.

barbie~~

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 02, 2014, 01:22:19 PM
So here I am, stuck in the poisition of having to 'get over it' but not knowing how to, or when it will end.

Sorry to say but the social phobia will only end when you decide to put an end to it. And really, the only way to do that is to stop worrying about what other people think - please believe in yourself and your beauty (and I don't say that glibly), build up your confidence and start living your life without fear. Yes, yes - easier said than done. Consider talking to a professional about it - possibly you are suffering from agoraphobia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoraphobia) or other similar anxiety - they will be able to recommend coping mechanisms. It will take some time and courage to overcome but what have you got to lose - other than getting the most out of the accomplished life you deserve to live?

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 02, 2014, 01:22:19 PM

Hell, I am still afraid of anyone who doesn't know that I am trans. I have a group of cis girl friends who dont know that I am trans and I am constantly afraid of being read. Less so with them, as they haven't read me up until

Oh....but you don't talk about periods, boyfriends, wanting to have children etc? And they don't notice you being nervous etc?

One more vote for the scarf ;)

You look great.  As everyone has said if you need professional help to get past this then find some, but I don't think you have anything to be worried about.  You are a woman.

Indeed you look really nice and I highly doubt that someone would be able to tell that you are trans by looking at you...

Anyways when I go out I like listening to music, it kinda gives me courage and makes me forget about the pass /non pass stuff...
when I m not listening to music I find myself constantly looking other people wondering what they think about me etc...its wierd...


Hhhhm I guess it just something that needs time...

Hi Kira.

The C word has been mentioned a few times... Confidence. It really is the key :).

To add my perspective, I've been full time for only 3 months, and part time before that for a couple of months. At the moment I pass pretty well, but do occasionally get 'read', but it really doesn't bother me too much. I can't let it bother me too much... And like you, FFS will soon help me with that :).

The confidence I found was when I was part time. I decided to do some volunteer work in a safe area as the real me... It was so scary, I was just about shaking on the first morning. Knowing full well that I didn't pass well. You know what happened? Lots of strange looks, a few giggles, and that's about it. People were generally rather polite. Going through that somehow let me let go of caring about what people think, and that gave me a good amount of confidence that I slowly built upon.

And confidence allowed me to be relaxed out in the world, and that only helps with passing too.

Quote from: Dahlia on March 03, 2014, 02:21:28 AM
Oh....but you don't talk about periods, boyfriends, wanting to have children etc? And they don't notice you being nervous etc?

I am not sure of what u r getting at with this post.  I do talk about children and boyfriends,  not much about periods but it has come up once or twice on the topic of mood change so I joined in with my experience (my hormones cycle and I get monthly changes) .  Do they notice I am nervous? Maybe.  I don't know.  I do all the things I know how to do; try and act relaxed (its the trappings), tell myself positive things,  never change mind or plans on the basis of fear.  So how much they can tell,  I don't know. 

Could u let me know what ur getting at? Sorry, I am probably being slow.

X

Thanks Grace.  I am not afraid of spaces,  it the people -  specifically people I don't know.

Thanks for ur kind words Emily and Joan. 

FP, I actually remember thinking the same myself a while ago but it has slipped my mind, so I hadn't been listening to music.  Thanks. Sammy rose -  I work with students.  Lots of them. I am less nervous around the ones I know but the others that I don't still make me nervous. It's a public thing.

Thanks again

X

Quote from: barbie on March 03, 2014, 01:11:22 AM
I lived in rural, southern Maryland where most people are Catholic with Irish heritage. Not all of them, but some of them openly revealed their hostility to me. I have never experienced such hostility based on religion in other countries.

barbie~~

Barbie, I'm so sorry that happened to you .I'm Irish catholic and that's totally unacceptable

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on March 03, 2014, 02:28:07 AM
Seriously... You did not mean that those are the only topics which women will discuss when they are in purely female company, did You?

Not all the time but sometimes...or regular of often or what, but they do talk about that amongst eachother.....especially when they're  late teenagers/early 20's.
Didn't that occur to you? Didn't it?

Quote from: Dahlia on March 03, 2014, 02:21:28 AM
Oh....but you don't talk about periods, boyfriends, wanting to have children etc? And they don't notice you being nervous etc?

That stuff almost never comes up unless: 1. someone is complaining about how much periods suck. 2. Their boyfriend is a total dick and how they wish to be rid of the loser. 3. Never. If they already have children, it's usually a discussion about they drive them insane and the lack of sleep that results from that.

Speaking for myself, I am damn glad that I will never experience any of those three things. It's one of the few good things about being trans. But, even if I were a genetic girl, points 2 and 3 would have never been an issue anyway since I would be a lesbian and I would never...ever want to have children.

I should have clarified: scarves are fine--for the winter. If you wear it open like in the one pic, no problem. But covering your neck or wearing turtlenecks, if people are already thinking, hmm something is wrong, will be a tell. The adam's apple is the biggest tell. Then facial hair. But it's winter so I assume that is the point. Sorry, if I came across wrong. it wasn't my intention. I just think she passes great as is, and why possibly add a tell! There is even a joke on How I met Your Mother about how to spot a trap. The answer: turtlenecks or scarves. So, I'm not alone and didn't think of this myself. I was just trying to help because the OP passes great as is.

I guess I'm lucky in that I have no adam's apple so maybe I shouldnt speak on the topic. SRSLY, just trying to help as the OP is insecure and the point of her post is to end that. She didn't want people to mince words.

Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on March 03, 2014, 08:44:02 AM
Thanks Grace.  I am not afraid of spaces,  it the people -  specifically people I don't know.

Yes, but agoraphobia covers crowds/people too...at any rate you might benefit from talking with someone like a counsellor who can give you a way to cope with your anxieties, they would hopefully start small and build you up until you can deal with big groups. And seriously, if you haven't been made through the close scrutiny of a group of women friends it's highly anyone on the street would think of you as anything but female.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 03, 2014, 10:32:12 AM
That stuff almost never comes up unless: 1. someone is complaining about how much periods suck. 2. Their boyfriend is a total dick and how they wish to be rid of the loser. 3. Never. If they already have children, it's usually a discussion about they drive them insane and the lack of sleep that results from that.

Speaking for myself, I am damn glad that I will never experience any of those three things. It's one of the few good things about being trans. But, even if I were a genetic girl, points 2 and 3 would have never been an issue anyway since I would be a lesbian and I would never...ever want to have children.

Stuff like this came up for me, not exactly the same, but about BC being used for skin and mood control. It came up in a convo between me, my mom and sister in law. Not the same thing but def similar. It does come up. But you're right LS it almost never does except in the three situations you mentioned. And being shy about it won't out you, it will make you look shy or prudish.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 02, 2014, 02:01:54 PM
Well, you look great but I would lose the scarf. Anytime I see someone wearing a scarf, I think she must be trying to hide her adam's apple. And now with the whole Bruce Jenner tracheal shave thingy that's only going to be amplified.

I like the scarves!  I don't think anybody would think anything about it unless you wore them everyday and never took them off or something.

Quote from: Jen on March 03, 2014, 11:23:55 AM
I like the scarves!  I don't think anybody would think anything about it unless you wore them everyday and never took them off or something.

Lol i love scarfs too but i was just thinking...i can be wrong sometimes...in fact, im wrong all the time if you ask my, uh, ex

And yeah, you're right, unless you never took them of nobody would think a thing.

In fact, the other day i missed the train cause i couldnt find my scarf...and i have no adam's apple. it simply does not exist. So, i should stop saying whatever comes to my mind lol

Lol no way.  Say what you think imo.  Sometimes you'll be right, sometimes not, but oh well :).  I also lucked out in the AA dept.  one less surgery needed :)

Quote from: Jen on March 03, 2014, 03:33:43 PM
Lol no way.  Say what you think imo.  Sometimes you'll be right, sometimes not, but oh well :). I also lucked out in the AA dept.  one less surgery needed :)

Yes I lucked out as well!! but still love to wear scarves....about the only reason I don't sometimes is because they make my neck appear bigger....I like my small neck! :)

Quote from: Dahlia on March 03, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
Not all the time but sometimes...or regular of often or what, but they do talk about that amongst eachother.....especially when they're  late teenagers/early 20's.
Didn't that occur to you? Didn't it?

Some truth to this! and probably more so with the younger girls. I have had a few women talk to me about the normal PMS crap or an abnormal heavy flow...but its not everyday talk. What does come up often is how men treat us like crap at times!! or the huge differences of how men perceive things. When I started working as my true gender I had so many women say "it's a man thing"...I never used the saying myself...thought I had not earned the right to say it. I now know exactly what it means to say this and have said it a few times...

I don't know.  I love scarves and one of my cis sisters wears them all the time.  It doesn't seem like anything that would out someone unless it was attached to your neck, lol.

Quote from: learningtolive on March 03, 2014, 06:03:09 PM
I don't know.  I love scarves and one of my cis sisters wears them all the time.  It doesn't seem like anything that would out someone unless it was attached to your neck, lol.

The main thing I can think of that might raise a red flag to some people would be wearing a scarf or turtleneck in weather that is too hot for most people to be doing that.

Up here in Alaska, wearing cold weather clothing in summer just makes you look like a tourist, haha. So maybe it wouldn't draw any red flags up here, other than the tourist one.

Quote from: stephaniec on March 03, 2014, 09:59:23 AM
Barbie, I'm so sorry that happened to you .I'm Irish catholic and that's totally unacceptable

No. No.

In my country, the most socially-esteemed religion is Catholic. Here they are open-minded, acknowledge other religions such as Buddhism, and very active in popular movements.

When I was in Maryland, one woman invited us to their home. She was the parents of my son's class mate. She said their family are Irish descendants, and her dad was a Korean-war veteran. She showed us some old photos and a Korean-traditional dress her dad gave as a gift. Irish folk songs have been very popular here in Korea, because historically Koreans also have suffered from many tragedies.

Most people are fine, but there are a few extremists and bigots in any place.

barbie~~