Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Sometimes I see people on this site putting other people down.  It doesn't always have to be name calling (though that happens), but it can be as subtle as diminishing their experience or invalidating their real struggles.  One thing I think we should all keep in mind is that gender dysphoria effects everyone in different ways.  Maybe we are different ages, come from different backgrounds, have diverse circumstances, and our experience with dyshoria isn't one in the same, but that doesn't mean that how someone else feels about the issues is ever irrelevant.  It's one of my biggest gripes and one of the things that I constantly see around here (even though it's in the clear minority).  No matter what your struggles are, they are not irrelevant.  These issues impact and effect our lives in many real ways.  And no needs to be insulted when they talk about their dysphoria and related issues on a support site.  I'm glad other people have found ways to cope, but there is a way to treat other people.  When we diminish their experience (even if we can't relate) we do a great disservice to other people.  Secondly, it's important to remember that you're not in the other person shoes and only know what they feel comfortable sharing.  You don't know their everyday life, what they've been through and what they continue to feel.  It's like going onto a support forum for survivors of child abuse and calling them whiners.  Seriously, is that the right way to treat people? Why should it be acceptable here? Perhaps empathy and compassion will go a long way for this board as it does for other ones.  I hope people consider the impact of their words and the way they treat others before speaking.  This is something that does have an impact on many of us even the surrounding circumstances differ for each individual person.   And for many of us, this is the only place we can talk about things related to gender issues, including pure venting, asking for help, getting it out, finding ourselves, helping others in need, etc.  Shutting down the conversation serves no one in the end.  Respecting one another and having compassion should be the goal, not invalidating or criticizing others.   If your experiences are more important or harder, then good for you, but this isn't a contest.  It's a support site for people in a diverse minority group. 

Agreed.

Why not just cut to the chase? If you want to discuss sexual abuse among trans people, I can assure you that you're not the only one. Stop being a victim and let's discuss it. More than 50% of people who are trans have a history of sexual violence.  http://www.pcar.org/sites/default/files/TAB_2013_Fall_ServingTransSurvivors.pdf
This forum is for support and that's great.  I have seen people get great support & advice here.  Yet some people are like a broken record.  They bring up the same issues over and over and over and never seem to make any effort to improve their situation. What is the point of that?  If this forum is someone's only outlet to discuss gender issues, that is a huge problem.  People with gender issues need a real live trained professional gender therapist.  This is a forum on the internet. Not a professional gender therapist.

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 07:34:22 PM
Why not just cut to the chase? If you want to discuss sexual abuse among trans people, I can assure you that you're not the only one. Stop being a victim and let's discuss it. More than 50% of people who are trans have a history of sexual violence.  http://www.pcar.org/sites/default/files/TAB_2013_Fall_ServingTransSurvivors.pdf
This forum is for support and that's great.  I have seen people get great support & advice here.  Yet some people are like a broken record.  They bring up the same issues over and over and over and never seem to make any effort to improve their situation. What is the point of that?  If this forum is someone's only outlet to discuss gender issues, that is a huge problem.  People with gender issues need a real live trained professional gender therapist.  This is a forum on the internet. Not a professional therapist.

What I want people is to respect other people on this board and not invalidate their experiences. I have a therapist, but this community helps me through my day to day issues.  And don't tell me I have made no progress in my life as that is unfair.  I've been in the process of transitioning, facing my issues in therapy and trying to improve my life.  If you need to criticize me or others for that, why not just move on instead of hostile posts and pms.  I think we as a community would do better rather than lashing out at people you don't like for whatever reason.  As I said, I wish you luck in your transition and I'll never invalidate what you feel.  If you need to do that to me or others, please leave me alone as I've asked before. For the record, I didn't name you and wanted this to be the end of it.

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 16, 2014, 07:34:22 PM
Why not just cut to the chase? If you want to discuss sexual abuse among trans people, I can assure you that you're not the only one. Stop being a victim and let's discuss it. More than 50% of people who are trans have a history of sexual violence.  http://www.pcar.org/sites/default/files/TAB_2013_Fall_ServingTransSurvivors.pdf
This forum is for support and that's great.  I have seen people get great support & advice here.  Yet some people are like a broken record.  They bring up the same issues over and over and over and never seem to make any effort to improve their situation. What is the point of that?  If this forum is someone's only outlet to discuss gender issues, that is a huge problem.  People with gender issues need a real live trained professional gender therapist.  This is a forum on the internet. Not a professional gender therapist.

People with gender issues also need the confidence to take the step to see a gender therapist. And sometimes the anonymity a forum like this can provide is a step in that direction. Sure people might bring up the same issues, but each time the discussions in those threads might make them feel just that little bit better about themselves and nudge them in the right direction towards taking the steps they want to take but are too scared to.

There isn't a time limit on how long it takes someone to take the steps in their lives to get them where they want to be. Certainly not here there isn't. If it takes a month, a year, 3 years, so be it. What matters is that they feel safe, supported, and in a place where they can express themselves. For some folks, that really is the only avenue they have in their lives.

Making an effort to improve their situation might be a gradual thing, and one which being here can facilitate, no matter how long it takes. So I don't really think it's fair to judge what folks here post about. If you don't like what someone is saying, just don't read it and look at something else.

We are all different,

Im just glad that some of us can be different in a similar way.



We should respect and accept everyone here no matter if we feel different or not.

:)

But OTOH, providing an objective perspective can seem like being dismissive of someone's problem.  If someone posts "Oh life is terrible because of _x_",  it can seem diminishing to point out that it really isn't or that there are solutions. Simply supporting someone can verge on facilitation of unhealthy thought or self-loathing.  Maybe thats just the guy brain in me and the "fix it" mentality... Its a fine line and requires sensitivity at least.

Quote from: JamesG on March 16, 2014, 07:58:55 PM
But OTOH, providing an objective perspective can seem like being dismissive of someone's problem.  If someone posts "Oh life is terrible because of _x_",  it can seem diminishing to point out that it really isn't or that there are solutions. Simply supporting someone can verge on facilitation of unhealthy thought or self-loathing.  Maybe thats just the guy brain in me and the "fix it" mentality... Its a fine line and requires sensitivity at least.

I can agree with this, but it's another thing when someone totally dismisses how another person feels and goes to the pm realm to criticize them after requesting it to stop. All I'm trying to do is solve my problems and find a happy life.  Yes, it's work.  Yes, it takes a lot of effot.  And yes, it is a process, but I'm doing it.  I'm proud of myself for having the courage and inner strength to take this on and make the necessary improvements to my life.  While I'm not fully there, I will get there one day.  And maybe what I deal with and my struggles are insignificant to everyone else here,, but I live with them everyday and they mean a lot to me.  Just like I'm sure yours do to you and the same things for everyone else.   That's something that we should all respect.  No one has to like me here and people are free to think whatever they will, but we should all have the room here to find a way to make the necessary improvements in our life.  Like I said before, I wish everyone well in facing their gender issues and hope it all works out for them in life.  I just wish we could be more careful about how we interact with one another and consider how other people feel. 

My problem comes from who is the police. Who is to say what is acceptable and what is not.

Yes we have standards in the group but if these standards are not in violation then what. If they are then action needs to take place.

The way i have walked my path is not he same way everyone will walk theirs. That is ok, each of us are our own. I will offer suggestions based on what i have learned and worked for me, but it is just suggestions.

With maturity and hard knocks comes understanding of life. In life so much is not fair.

In that understanding of life everyone is entitled to there opinion.

Some will agree and many will disagree but that is what makes the world go around. This forum is just that, a mix of all.

For me i am still here. I do understand why most of the post-ops stop coming around. The drama!

Anyway just my 2 and half cents worth. I have never apologized for my opinion.

Breathe
Isabell

Kia Ora L,

I'm one of the more fortunate members who had already been there done that and have the T-shirt to prove it, so I'm not here for any kind of support, more so just to stay in touch with the community and every now and again(when I'm not mind tripping on-philosophy-science-spiritual) I might attempt to offer the 'odd' piece of advice...

"Different Strokes For Different Folks !" and there in lies the difficulty/problem with support, what works for one person may not work for another...This is not to say one should not make an effort to show respect and attempt to walk in that person's shoes...

But sadly when it comes to support (and more often than not the emotional instability of the receiver) even good intent can be taken the wrong way and blown all out of proportion...

Metta Anatta :)

A co-member of mine on another web site has the signature line that reads "Yes, I know other people have it worse than me, but I am hurting NOW, so do not dismiss my feelings!!"  Here and there, this sentence comes up in my mind as I try to compose both posts and replies. 

Sephira is right on by saying that it may not be one or even the one hundredth time a person posts a complaint about their life that something I say to them will make a difference, but if I remember and think that YES they are hurting NOW, and NOW is all the time we share, it is not skin off my nose to acknowledge the hurt they have.  Maybe all I will do is acknowledge the hurting if it is overloaded with my advice already, but perhaps that is enough.  How the hell many years did it take me to overcome my lamebrainery?  (Hint -- it took too________  <that IS spelled right>.

Like Anatta, I am now beyond the personal support roll of the needy and would like to think I am paying forward for help I have received.

Yes I can be fooled by someone intent on mischief at times. Indeed the mischief may be to distract me from others who could better use and accept what I want to say and if I sucker in to it, it is my fault if they have done it more than once.  There are people who should be ignored, not chastised, just ignored if they do create a wall of spam until a moderator catches it and brings it to an end.  That's why mods get the big plate of cookies each month.

I do make an attempt to think of each person I respond to as a real person, but if LTL simply sees a silly emoticon under my member name, I hope she and any other person here will know that one damn person did think of her as a person with a need to post here.  The single emoticon may have been the best I could do in balancing her load and mine at that time.  I may have been hurting at that moment myself. 

Quote from: Anatta on March 16, 2014, 11:34:34 PM
Kia Ora L,

I'm one of the more fortunate members who had already been there done that and have the T-shirt to prove it, so I'm not here for any kind of support, more so just to stay in touch with the community and every now and again(when I'm not mind tripping on-philosophy-science-spiritual) I might attempt to offer the 'odd' piece of advice...

"Different Strokes For Different Folks !" and there in lies the difficulty/problem with support, what works for one person may not work for another...This is not to say one should not make an effort to show respect and attempt to walk in that person's shoes...

But sadly when it comes to support (and more often than not the emotional instability of the receiver) even good intent can be taken the wrong way and blown all out of proportion...

Metta Anatta :)

I think this is wisdom here. 
There also seems to be a real lack of communication between trans members here who are older/more experienced and younger members 20's-30-s and younger.  Most younger members seem to believe their own personal situation is worse than anyone else on earth.  More often than not, the younger ones discount all advice from older/more experienced members.  And yes, I'm sure they'll even disagree with this post.

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 17, 2014, 10:04:12 AM
I think this is wisdom here. 
There also seems to be a real lack of communication between trans members here who are older/more experienced and younger members 20's-30-s and younger.  Most younger members seem to believe their own personal situation is worse than anyone else on earth.  More often than not, the younger ones discount all advice from older/more experienced members.  And yes, I'm sure they'll even disagree with this post.

I have felt this myself. They have no idea of how much better there lifes are over us who are in the baby boom generation.

Not to discount the fact it is hard emotionaly for them, its just the information out there is leaps and bounds ahead of anything i had. Wonder how many knows what a Encyclopaedia Britannica is?

I wish us who have made it to the end had that one word of advice to make everything so smooth.

Transition is a learning and growth period that needs to be walked and not runned. Many want the short cut and not have to do the work that comes with this life.

Remember to breathe, slow down and take what is offered as someones opinion and apply what you feel can help.

I feel this forum has so much to offer anyone from start to finish.

Isabell

Quote from: mind is quiet now on March 17, 2014, 11:51:29 AM
I have felt this myself. They have no idea of how much better their lives are over us who are in the baby boom generation.

Excellent point.  And I'm not discounting anyone's trans struggle. It's not easy for anyone. It's just that I see so many self centered 'I have it worse than anyone else' attitudes on this forum.  And these posts are almost always from young people. No, I'm not really expecting that to change.   But it would be nice if someday they would realize the world doesn't revolve around them and give others the respect they are always demanding.

No one is claiming to have things worse than anyone else.  In fact, I'm blessed in many ways and would be the first to acknowledge that.  And my whole time on the forum outside of my threads is to give support to others and give them respect (read my posts to others if you choose to dispute this). The world doesn't revolve around me and never would I claim otherwise.   And sure, everyone has something to learn from other people, especially from my elders.  What I don't like is that people express annoyance towards me and others in messages or posts because they think we are undeserving or whiny as some have stated.  Just move on as I would do if I found someone irritating.  And despite the words in this thread, I don't come onto this forum with a disrespectful attitude looking to diminish the experiences that others face..  Everyone has struggles, some more than others (and I'm never going to say mine are at the top of it) but I'm welcome to post about my feelings in my thread and people are welcome to ignore them.  That's part of the forum.  Everyone is welcome to post whether they are 25 or 59.  It doesn't matter who has it harder or who doesn't in someone's eyes.  What matters is that theses issues impact people of all stripes and everyone is looking to improve their lives.  Sometimes that comes from advice.  Sometimes a cry helps when in the transition phase as I am.  It's a support forum. That's the point.  I've noticed a lot of anger towards the youth that goes beyond what is said and the actions of others.  Personally, I feel this is misplaced anger that is unwarranted and misdirected.    Maybe we can go beyond that and learn to coexist even if we can't all get along or love one another?  It's about respecting everyone (not just your elders, peers or the youth) and allowing them their own space here even if it doesn't meet someone's personal standards.   

Kia Ora,

Quote from: Anatta on March 16, 2014, 11:34:34 PM
Kia Ora L,

I'm one of the more fortunate members who had already been there done that and have the T-shirt to prove it, so I'm not here for any kind of support, more so just to stay in touch with the community and every now and again(when I'm not mind tripping on-philosophy-science-spiritual) I might attempt to offer the 'odd' piece of advice...

"Different Strokes For Different Folks !" and there in lies the difficulty/problem with support, what works for one person may not work for another...This is not to say one should not make an effort to show respect and attempt to walk in that person's shoes...

But sadly when it comes to support (and more often than not the emotional instability of the receiver) even good intent can be taken the wrong way and blown all out of proportion...

Metta Anatta :)

I would like to point out(just to keep things straight) that the above post was in no way targeting any specific age group...It's ageless....

There are young/er members here who have also "Been there and done that" ...Just thought some clarification was in order....


Metta Anatta :)

Quote from: learningtolive on March 17, 2014, 09:28:00 PM
I've noticed a lot of anger towards the youth that goes beyond what is said and the actions of others.  Personally, I feel this is misplaced anger that is unwarranted and misdirected.

As well as I've noticed a lot of anger and disrespect toward the older individuals who are transitioning.  Here's some wisdom - treat people how you would like to be treated.  Honestly, I haven't seen that happening.

QuoteAnd despite the words in this thread, I don't come onto this forum with a disrespectful attitude looking to diminish the experiences that others face.

That's 'your' opinion.  That's not the only opinion.

QuoteMaybe we can go beyond that and learn to coexist even if we can't all get along or love one another?

I kinda doubt that considering past history.  But I suppose stranger things have happened.

@Jordanblue, I'm sorry you find my threads to be disrespectful and angry towards older members.  That was never there intentions as that is not what I talk about on these forums.  I talk about my transition and circumstances.  Sharing my pictures and getting feedback is part of the forum and it isn't meant to upset or provoke anyone else. You are free to do the same, and I wouldn't come there to diminish how you feel or disrespect you.  That's what I mean by peaceful co-existance because I do think you have just as much of a right to be here as anyone else.  I would just ask for everyone to be as kind to each other as possible.  If you think you've been, fine that's your view, but I found those pms unwelcoming and would prefer not recieving such things in the future.  On my part, I will refrain from ever sending a message to you.

As for the idea that I as a "younger" member (which I'm really not) comes with the intention of "oppressing" the older transitioners, I'm a bit surprised.  Sure, I make my mistakes as any other member does, but most people have a very supportive attitude regardless of the other persons age or circumstances.  Can I always relate?  No.  Do I necessarily have it harder?  No.  People who are older in their transition are just as welcome to get support, feedback and live the life of their dreams.  If anyone thinks I'm here to diminish their experiences, I would have to tell you that's not my intention.  There is no age limit here and age, whatever way it stems, doesn't make someone better, more important, or mean they have it harder.  Sharing ones on transition experience is not meant to diminish someone else's. That's my feeling on the subject and you are free to interpret it as you will. 

I really don't think that the younger ones have any easier time accepting themselves as some of the older ones. That will always be an inner struggle. I do however think that society as a whole is a little more accepting than it was when I was younger, but still not accepting enough though. But I do have hope because when I was young, gays and lesbians were just as ridiculed and shunned as transgenders are today. Today people that are gay and lesbian can live openly and proudly be who they are without the risk of too much ridicule. Look at the two beer makers that pulled their products or endorsements from the St. Patrick's day parade in Boston because they wouldn't let gays participate. Times are changing and it may be a maternal instinct in me but I am really happy that the younger crowd don't have to go through all the hate toward the LGBTs that was so prevailent in my youth. You do make some really good points in your original posting learningtolive and I do agree with you. Our experiences and struggles are all different but one thing that we all have in common is that we have hurt inside and one's suffering is still suffering no matter the circumstances.

Quote from: learningtolive on March 18, 2014, 07:20:24 AMI would just ask for everyone to be as kind to each other as possible. 

I'm puzzled as to why you think you have the right to ask anyone to do something you haven't done here. 

QuoteI found those pms unwelcoming and would prefer not recieving such things in the future. 

I find a lot of your words here unwelcome. You don't want any pm's.  I get it - OK? I figured a pm would be better than posting personal issues with a member on the forum.  That's usually the way adults deal with something. Obviously you don't agree.  There was no harassment in those pms.  I said - 'you really don't get it' and 'I believe that you're a whiner'. You were certainly more than welcome to respond and correct me if you felt I was wrong. You instead chose to air your complaints by posting on the forum.  FWIW, I stand by both comments because you haven't shown me anything contrary to that. 

QuoteIf anyone thinks I'm here to diminish their experiences, I would have to tell you that's not my intention.

I truly believe there is some type of separation between your intention and the majority of your posts here.  Your theme seems to be 'I can't pass'.  I've seen a countless number of members assure you over and over that you do indeed 'pass' and then some.  Yet you relentlessly repeat the same 'I can't pass'.  then, you freak out when someone tells you that you're repeating the same thing over and over.  I can assure you that many members in transition here would love to be as passable as you are.  To have your face, hair, etc.  You have no idea how lucky you are.  For some reason, you refuse to accept that.  Please find a gender therapist who can help you.  You seem to have bigger issues than someone should be trying to solve on an online forum. You have absolutely no idea how much easier you have it than when I was your age.  I've seen many other members here tell you the same thing.  Yes, you disagree with that - I get it.

QuoteThat's my feeling on the subject and you are free to interpret it as you will.

I can only 'interpret' what I see anyone post here.  Nobody can interpret personal intentions and feelings on an internet forum.   I could go on about how nobody is 'diminishing' (that seems to be your favorite word) your experience here anymore than you're 'diminishing' theirs, but I won't.    Respect and kindness is a two way street.   Yes, it's a support forum, nobody is debating that. 

Quote from: JordanBlue on March 18, 2014, 09:27:50 AM

Quote from: learningtolive on March 18, 2014, 07:20:24 AMI would just ask for everyone to be as kind to each other as possible. 

I'm puzzled as to why you think you have the right to ask anyone to do something you haven't done here. 

QuoteI found those pms unwelcoming and would prefer not recieving such things in the future. 

I find a lot of your words here unwelcome. You don't want any pm's.  I get it - OK? I figured a pm would be better than posting personal issues with a member on the forum.  That's usually the way adults deal with something. Obviously you don't agree.  There was no harassment in those pms.  I said - 'you really don't get it' and 'I believe that you're a whiner'. You were certainly more than welcome to respond and correct me if you felt I was wrong. You instead chose to air your complaints by posting on the forum.  FWIW, I stand by both comments because you haven't shown me anything contrary to that. 

QuoteIf anyone thinks I'm here to diminish their experiences, I would have to tell you that's not my intention.

I truly believe there is some type of separation between your intention and the majority of your posts here.  Your theme seems to be 'I can't pass'.  I've seen a countless number of members assure you over and over that you do indeed 'pass' and then some.  Yet you relentlessly repeat the same 'I can't pass'.  then, you freak out when someone tells you that you're repeating the same thing over and over.  I can assure you that many members in transition here would love to be as passable as you are.  To have your face, hair, etc.  You have no idea how lucky you are.  For some reason, you refuse to accept that.  Please find a gender therapist who can help you.  You seem to have bigger issues than someone should be trying to solve on an online forum. You have absolutely no idea how much easier you have it than when I was your age.  I've seen many other members here tell you the same thing.  Yes, you disagree with that - I get it.

QuoteThat's my feeling on the subject and you are free to interpret it as you will.

I can only 'interpret' what I see anyone post here.  Nobody can interpret personal intentions and feelings on an internet forum.   I could go on about how nobody is 'diminishing' (that seems to be your favorite word) your experience here anymore than you're 'diminishing' theirs, but I won't.    Respect and kindness is a two way street.   Yes, it's a support forum, nobody is debating that.

hi Jordan,

I don't know what all has gone down between you. But I think I can see some of both sides just from this thread. To someone who may have a lot more challenges transition wise (I don't know, I'm just guessing this is where you're coming from), LTL's complaints may seem small. I think we could pretty much agree that transitioning young is comparatively easier - more resources and knowledge available now, less history in the wrong gender, less baggage (especially if the younger person doesn't have a marriage or kids to deal with), sometimes a lot less to deal with physically (less hair loss, maybe less beard, less masculinization, etc). Not to mention past decades were a lot less kind to those with gender variance.

And there's also a lot of ageism in the trans community, particularly among trans women. This reflects the greater culture where ageism is particularly prevalent against women. Our society has infantilized women (hope I spelled that right) and makes it almost a personal failure to age as a woman (especially in the US). This gets worse in the trans community when more mature women have more obstacles to passing (hair for one). And like the paper bag parties of another time, passable young trans women often try to distance themselves from those who cannot (often older trans women but not always).

So, I get the frustration. I really do. I've seen this kind of ageism in the community. But I really don't think LTL is one of those. So much of this is mental. Her struggles may seem trivial to others dealing with more but they are real to her. And really, in female terms, she is not that young. She's at the age where women start being really reluctant to say their age. At 25, a man is seen as still very young, virile, and full of possibility. Not so for a woman.  25 for a woman is probably like 50 for a man. (especially in terms of societal value). Still viable, but on the way down. At the 'peak' and there's not much further to go from there. Again because of the infantilization of women.