Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This may seem confusing, but as an MTF I have no desire to crossdress.

What I mean is, I definitely want to dress as a female. It would be a dream come true. But I do not want to dress as a female while I am physically male. I doubt I will want to wear female clothes until at least the 3 month if not 6 month mark of HRT. Though I haven't started HRT yet so I may decide otherwise after the first week of E.

Is this a normal feeling or could there be some other underlying psychological factor that is muting my desire to cross dress?

I think some people express their GID by cross-dressing, and some I guess are just impatient to start being feminine. Some have no other outlet for it

But I am with ya. I don't dress either. I am on the slow boat to femdom, so am plugging away at letting the hormones do their thing while I grow my hair out, lose weight, tone up in the right places etc.  But I'm not there yet.  In fact putting on women's cloths or even just looking at my body in the mirror gives me a big case of dissonance between what I see and my mental self-image. I find it very depressing, so I don't bother and just keep my head down working away at it.

I don't consider it crossdressing when all you are doing is wearing clothing that society deems appropriate for your gender.  I never wore women's clothing until I could fully admit to myself that I was gender dysphoric at age 43, and sometimes early on when I felt the need to wear a cute outfit to help relieve my dysphoria I just ended up feeling like a shaven ape in a dress and all it did was trigger more dysphoric feelings.   Why bother if it just makes you feel bad/worse?  I never left my house in girl mode until a month on estrogen, and I still wore guy clothes all day long on some days.

Some people have to wait until they approach male fail before they feel comfortable wearing women's clothes because they can make you self conscious about not comfortably meeting society's expectations of a woman. 

I feel similarly to you - it's not so much as there's no desire but that clothes have little significance to me - it's definitely 100% more face/body/feeling for me than clothes. I mostly wear what could be considered neutral anyway. It's like, what the heck is the point in putting on a pretty dress when I'm still not on HRT? It'll just make me feel like s%%t.

Does it also make you feel like a fake when you hear a lot of transwomen who start their journey through "crossdressing"? That's what's getting to me at the moment, just feels like I'm not serious because I'm reluctant to jump into a dress right now.

I know what you're going through, maybe it will be one of the emotional changes when hormones kick in is what I'm thinking. Unfortunately in the UK you seem to be expected to wear frilly dresses in complete boymode in front of as many people as possible before they'll even consider talking about HRT  :-\

Quote from: Izla on March 17, 2014, 04:35:27 PM
I feel similarly to you - it's not so much as there's no desire but that clothes have little significance to me - it's definitely 100% more face/body/feeling for me than clothes. I mostly wear what could be considered neutral anyway. It's like, what the heck is the point in putting on a pretty dress when I'm still not on HRT? It'll just make me feel like s%%t.

Does it also make you feel like a fake when you hear a lot of transwomen who start their journey through "crossdressing"? That's what's getting to me at the moment, just feels like I'm not serious because I'm reluctant to jump into a dress right now.

I know what you're going through, maybe it will be one of the emotional changes when hormones kick in is what I'm thinking. Unfortunately in the UK you seem to be expected to wear frilly dresses in complete boymode in front of as many people as possible before they'll even consider talking about HRT  :-\

Yup. I pretty much feel the same way you do. I remember once when I was little I tried on some of my mom's clothes... But they didn't make me the same as a girl, just more dysphoric so I never did it again. I definitely want to feel like I am physically female before I present as female.
I also dress neutral. Jeans or shorts and tshirts all my life. Whenever I had to dress formally male (for events and things) I would literally feel nauseous... I thought I was allergic to formal clothes all my life, but I'm thinking it was just the dysphoria manifesting.

It seems like this is a normal thing for at least part of the transgender community. Thanks everyone for your replies!

Quote from: xponentialshift on March 17, 2014, 04:50:31 PM
Yup. I pretty much feel the same way you do. I remember once when I was little I tried on some of my mom's clothes... But they didn't make me the same as a girl, just more dysphoric so I never did it again. I definitely want to feel like I am physically female before I present as female.
I also dress neutral. Jeans or shorts and tshirts all my life. Whenever I had to dress formally male (for events and things) I would literally feel nauseous... I thought I was allergic to formal clothes all my life, but I'm thinking it was just the dysphoria manifesting.
It seems like this is a normal thing for at least part of the transgender community. Thanks everyone for your replies!

Holy crap, you too?   I hated suits and especially resented having to wear a tuxedo.  I always wished I could just wear a pretty dress, but I knew I couldn't and that made me more depresssed.  I was the anti-Men's Wearhouse person- I'm going to HATE the way I look... guaranteed!  My wife always told me how great I looked in nice clothes, and I tried really hard to like them after I had lost all the weight.  Objectively I looked pretty good, but inside I just wanted to cry.   Then I tried androgynous clothes and I began to piece together what my REAL problem was.   

Yep.

I only bother to dress when I can go to the effort or will be in such a situation where I will be perceived female. Being trans is not wanting to be seen as a guy in womens clothes. Which is what happens if you don't do it right.

If I go all out with makeup, do my hair nice and everything I can pass visually. If it is dark and I go for a walk about town I can pass visually. So I do these things when I want to. Being on estrogen did not change this for me.

Yep, I wouldn't find it all that uncommon. I started dressing as female about 3 months ago and still no hormones. I got really impatient. Even though it hadn't been long after I started, I had to fly home (and to get by TSA, dress male so my ID would match) and when I got home, I was forbidden to wear female clothes by my mother, fortunately I planned ahead for that (although thinking it would be dad, not mom) and brought half male clothes, half female clothes. It was exceptionally horrible being dragged to church by my family, already feeling uncomfortable in a Catholic church, a religion I had rejected almost 7 years prior, but also in the clothing my mother had me wear, white long sleeve dress shirt that was too wide, tucked into pants that were too wide around the waist, with a belt that the buckle felt uncomfortable, shoes that were a size too big and far too wide on me, and a tie that practically choked me to death. My plea to allow my mother to wear the dress I had brought home so we would both be mutually uncomfortable (her with me dressing female, me with me being in church) was shot down on the grounds that her comfort came first and since I'm still Catholic (I never left the church and never can in her eyes because I was baptised at a very young age, something I think a child should decide for themselves if they want done, but in my family it's tradition to do within 3 months after the baby is born) I'm not uncomfortable in a church.

Interestingly, I'm still somewhat uncomfortable, even wearing female clothes, but it's more of a fear that someone will notice me and say something mean about it or assault me or whatever.
Turns out just about everyone I talk to keys into it, which I see as good and bad. Bad, because I just want to be a normal girl, not a guy in a dress, which I'm afraid that's what some people probably think, good because if they had an issue about it they'd tell me that there was something wrong about it or whatever.
Turns out that older people (I tend to underestimate age, so I'll say over 60) tend to automatically recognise me as female, and I end up having nice conversations with them. I'm not sure if it's fading eyesight or just the fact that that generation tends to have a strict binary view of gender and if someone dresses female, they must be female, and don't recognise the modern "standards of beauty." I also happen to be better speaking to people who I've just met, especially older people.

Quote from: xponentialshift on March 17, 2014, 03:58:09 PM
This may seem confusing, but as an MTF I have no desire to crossdress.

What I mean is, I definitely want to dress as a female. It would be a dream come true. But I do not want to dress as a female while I am physically male. I doubt I will want to wear female clothes until at least the 3 month if not 6 month mark of HRT. Though I haven't started HRT yet so I may decide otherwise after the first week of E.

Is this a normal feeling or could there be some other underlying psychological factor that is muting my desire to cross dress?

Me exactly.

I never wanted to crossdress. I only put on female clothes when I WAS my female self, never just to be wearing them.

If it helps, despite no urges to crossdress as a male, I now love adorning my female body with jewelry and flattering clothes and am thrilled to be living full-time as myself for most of a year.

For what it's worth,

Christine Jorgensen was once quoted as saying that prior to her transition, she never cross dressed.

For me, being female is about internal feelings. It just feels so right!

I do have an interest in feminine attire, but not on a man's body.

I am not saying that I never cross dressed, but if the clothes fit and the accessories match, go for it!  :angel:

Perhaps I am vain, but dressing for me was a huge deal. Wearing male clothes had the emotional equivalence of wearing thorns and barbed wire. Dressing female and wearing makeup and doing all those feminine vanity related things helps me to express myself more freely, because i just could not put down my wall when i was dressed male. The more female I am able to look, the more female I feel I am able to behave.

Thought lately its been a non-issue, i cant avoid behaving female to save my life lol.

Though, i never saw it as cross-dressing. I always saw it as: "I'm a girl, and i'm wearing girl clothes, therefor its not cross dressing because I believe with all my soul that I'm a female.. I just look different for now." So for me it was never "cross-dressing" because i never felt like a male wearing female clothes. In fact... whenever i wear male clothes, i feel more self conscious lol.

Quote from: Jill F on March 17, 2014, 04:32:40 PM
I don't consider it crossdressing when all you are doing is wearing clothing that society deems appropriate for your gender.

Darn, beat me to it hehe

Quote from: LittleEmily24 on March 19, 2014, 04:02:10 PM
Though, i never saw it as cross-dressing. I always saw it as: "I'm a girl, and i'm wearing girl clothes, therefor its not cross dressing because I believe with all my soul that I'm a female.. I just look different for now." So for me it was never "cross-dressing" because i never felt like a male wearing female clothes. In fact... whenever i wear male clothes, i feel more self conscious lol.

This is how I feel exactly! Especially about being female heart and soul! :)

Totally agree. No urge to crossdress at all. My therapist keeps telling me I'll get to the point on hrt that it just happens. We'll see, only 1 month into hormones.

This is what happened to me also. Once I started HRT, all my female clothes stayed unworn for a while. I spoke about this at length with my therapist. The reason was complex... I wanted to be authentic, and didn't like the idea of dressing female while still appearing male. And, I needed to present the way I appeared for work, and to avoid difficulties in public. While I hated it, it was easier than the ridicule from doing the other.

But yes, HRT should get you there :).

I cross dressed for over 40 years, starting as soon as I was out of diapers. Soon after I came out, I finally stopped cross dressing for good, about three months before I went on HRT. I can't say that in between I wanted to cross dress, but I did it because it made me safer from rejection and bullying.

I never cross dress now, I threw all my male clothes out.

I sometimes enjoyed it, but it was never enough. I purged many times as I usually felt silly and embarrassed. Once I decided that cross dressing wasn't working and that I was making myself miserable I broke down and started to pursue hrt and therapy. I purged almost everything, but started to build an actual decent wardrobe that any other girl might have. I also got rid of any padding and stuff once I went out in public. After I met other trans girls all that stuff felt fake. I killed the wig too.

Now, after months of hrt I feel much better about being female. It's all still a work ii progress, but it keeps getting better. The more I go out, the more people I meet, the more support I get and the more people I come out to gives me confidence to take another step.

I finally reached a point where I don't feel different in guy mode anymore, I just feel boring, like I'm not living up to my potential. It's really a different feeling and something I didn't expect.

I digress, cross dressing really helped me learn about fashion, makeup and things that I don't have to worry about now. It also gave me a really good frame of reference for where I am now. But I totally understand how it feels before and after and how your emotions change about it.

I just enjoy fashion. There is nothing exciting in men's dresses and shoes.

barbie~~

Thanks for all of the replies! Now I know that my feelings weren't too uncommon...

I have always dressed fairly androgynous. T-shirts and shorts or jeans (almost exclusively jeans after puberty and the awful leg hair that came with it)... Basic hoodie when it gets cold. I guess that is why I never had a bad reaction to dressing male.

Although... In the past week (a month after seriously deciding I want to transition) I have stated to have some urge to cross dress for the first time since my one brief attempt back in highschool. But I worry that if I try it now I well get the same empty-pit-in-the-stomach feeling like something is missing or wrong that I did originally.

I am hoping that now that I am looking into transitioning it may feel different...

Anyway, I may try it out again after I get back to CA, and luckily I have my first therapy appointment 15 hours after I get home so I can talk about this there before I go out and buy anything.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on my possible newfound interest?


Oh and FWIW I consider "crossdressing" as dressing to a socially defined gender pattern that is not of the gender I am actively (in public) presenting as... So if I present as female in female clothes I would not consider that cross dressing in my opinion, but I figure that won't happen till a while after I start hrt.

Quote from: Cindy on March 24, 2014, 02:04:53 AM
I never cross dress now, I threw all my male clothes out.

Ha Ha.... That's to funny.

Great thread, as I have wondered about this topic. For me, I experimented with my moms cloths for a bit in my adolescents but never really cross dressed when I was older. My therapist was somewhat shocked when she ask how I felt when I cross dressed and my response was I never did much. She was a little surprised. After that I related it to the "Ape in the dress" syndrome and she relaxed a little... LOL... I did and do have to admit though I have always enjoyed the feel of panties. Especially silky sexy ones. I think the fear of getting caught was the factor in not cross dressing primarily. There have been some escapades in the bedroom a time or two though.

Quote from: Cindy on March 24, 2014, 02:04:53 AM
I never cross dress now, I threw all my male clothes out.

Hear Hear! Though I did donate mine instead of tossing them. If they were going to be trashed I think a ritual would be appropriate.

Quote from: Veronica M on March 30, 2014, 01:41:35 AM
I did and do have to admit though I have always enjoyed the feel of panties. Especially silky sexy ones.

I suppose my possible (neurological) sensory processing disorder (tactile defensiveness) may be an issue in that department...
I have trouble touching about 60% of fabrics (I get that chalk on chalkboard squeak/ ice tray in a freezer - brain exploding pain/ discomfort when I touch a lot of fabrics... Especially the fuzzyish ceiling of a car. If see someone else in the car even get 1/4" from touching it my brain practically melts.

If I self diagnosed correctly there is a treatment therapy for it! If not, then I hope it is somehow related to my GD... Maybe E will relieve that anxiety, or maybe the skin changes and touch sensitivity changes will lessen the reactiveness of those fabrics. Actually... Now I kind of hope that it is GD related... Then I won't need to go to operational therapy too!

Glad the thread has been of use to people other than me (:

I have the same issue with gender aligned clothes... it heightened my dysphoria because it exaggerated any male features.  I am aching to switch over, but know that HRT has to do its thing first before I can be comfortable seeing myself in female attire.
I am using the time to peacefully glide over- switching out items for neutral- learning about female clothes, the language of fashion, the tricks and tips for makeup and hair.
I have skirts I wear around the house to get used to moving in them- sitting, working at the desk.  I love them- but I don't look at my reflection.

I've tried crossdressing a few times and actually I do it since I had 7-8 years old, but later in life I felt worse when I did it because I was just a boy wearing female clothes.

Even on the first months of HRT I tried a few times and...no, that wasn't working...the only thing I did was buy more gender neutral clothing and I started wearing feminine underwear everyday. That felt right and made me feel good with myself.

After I bought a wig I decided to try again and I got surprised when I looked at the mirror. I could see a woman staring at me from the other side. A few days after I went out for the first time as myself, wearing feminine clothing, and the sensation was wonderful.

Some nights I lock the door of my room and I stay as myself. I put the wig on and some normal womens clothing and I feel good. It feels right to be that way! I don't feel like I am crossdressing, I am just being myself and starting to wear clothes that match my gender!

I feel each day more the need to start going out as myself, but I am extremely fearfull of that...

Quote from: Natalia on April 03, 2014, 07:50:20 AM
I feel each day more the need to start going out as myself, but I am extremely fearfull of that...

Yes. Step by step. Good luck and enjoy yourself.

barbie~~

Now that I have officially started transition by seeing a therapist for the first time, and I have an appointment scheduled with a hormone specialist/PCP on Tuesday, I actually went and ordered some female clothes!
At first I was going to do the self checkout at target... But apparently my town doesn't have that. Then I decided to pick up in store... But all but one item weren't available.
So instead I ordered online and the stuff should be here within the week!

I am worried that wearing this stuff early will trigger my dysphoria (despite my urges to wear it) but I figure at least I will be able to wear everything once I do get a few months into hrt so it won't be a complete waste.

Quote from: Jill F on March 17, 2014, 04:32:40 PM
Some people have to wait until they approach male fail before they feel comfortable wearing women's clothes because they can make you self conscious about not comfortably meeting society's expectations of a woman.

^ This.  Personally, I wouldn't go out the way I am right now.  I feel as though I'm sort of in no-man's land when I wear women's clothing - it sorta fits but not quite, if you get what I mean.  And there's that body dysmormphism that kicks in as a result.

Quote from: xponentialshift on April 12, 2014, 07:35:50 PM
I am worried that wearing this stuff early will trigger my dysphoria (despite my urges to wear it) but I figure at least I will be able to wear everything once I do get a few months into hrt so it won't be a complete waste.

It's not a bad idea anyway just to get used to handling yourself in said clothing.

I am flabbergasted, that so many of you think that wearing women's clothes would be cross dressing, it's like Most of you don't realize that being transgender is all about, so long you are a woman heart and would then you CAN NOT cross dress by wearing women's clothes, in fact, I think you cross dress by wearing male clothes, it isn't about making your body comfortable, it's about making your mind comfortable, I am with the girls who say make clothes to me were always like barb wire, awful. Dressing up should be, for many, a way to realize how wonderful they feel, how much more connected they are to their true self then. Not a matter of what others will think, fear . Should never be in a transgender woman's repertoir !!

Heart and soul I meant!! Gosh darn with the autocorrect!!

Quote from: calicarly on April 13, 2014, 05:32:19 AM
I am flabbergasted, that so many of you think that wearing women's clothes would be cross dressing, it's like Most of you don't realize that being transgender is all about, so long you are a woman heart and would then you CAN NOT cross dress by wearing women's clothes, in fact, I think you cross dress by wearing male clothes, it isn't about making your body comfortable, it's about making your mind comfortable, I am with the girls who say make clothes to me were always like barb wire, awful. Dressing up should be, for many, a way to realize how wonderful they feel, how much more connected they are to their true self then. Not a matter of what others will think, fear . Should never be in a transgender woman's repertoir !!

The rational part of mind agrees with you. And it isn't fear of others' reactions that keeps me from wearing women's clothes. It is the fact that it increases my dysphoria because they don't match my body as it currently looks.

Actually "cross dressing" as formally male gives me even worse dysphoria than dressing female ever did. That is why I dress exclusively androgynous.

So yeah, I use the term cross dress for anything that doesn't match... So dressing female doesn't match body and dressing male doesn't match body... Both are cross dressing for me.

Now that I'm thinking on the topic... I remember the few times I was required to dress in a formal male dress shirt and tie and pants and shoes for semester presentations and things... I would feel terrible the entire time and as soon as possible I'd run the 2 blocks to my apartment, throw off the clothes and pray to the porcelain god for about 30 minutes.

The few times I wore female clothes it wasn't anything near that bad... I just felt a little hollow like something was missing...

I suppose for the psychological and practical benefit of wearing female clothes pre hrt it is worth the tiny amount of discomfort....

Not sure why I never thought to compare cross dressing male to cross dressing female before...

I am also hoping that having properly sized female clothes will help... When I tried them last I was 5' and weighted 58 lbs... And I was trying to wear a 36b or c bra with a top and pants that are too big for me now at 5'9 and 125lbs... Perhaps that is why I felt empty...

[Edited for autocorrect typos]

Quote from: calicarly on April 13, 2014, 05:32:19 AM
I am flabbergasted... Not a matter of what others will think, fear . Should never be in a transgender woman's repertoir !!

Ideally, yes.  But in reality, and while in mid-transition, its not that simple.  Also, some don't want or can't completely assume female identity, externally or internally.

Quote from: JamesG on April 13, 2014, 03:50:37 PM
Ideally, yes.  But in reality, and while in mid-transition, its not that simple.  Also, some don't want or can't completely assume female identity, externally or internally.

I've gone through it too sweetie, in the real world too, not in fantasy land. If you don't want or can't assume female identity then you are not a transgender woman but rather intersex, and that, is a different issue.

She just said how what I said made her think of how much worse it is to wear male clothes. I am just trying to let her know that things not looking 100% right while her body hasn't changed doesn't make her a cross dresser for wearing the gender appropriate clothes, it simply makes her a perfectionist, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, particularly when she has such a pretty facial bone structure.. Cause as soon as HRT starts doing its thing she will be a beautiful girl, all I'm saying is there's no need to deny yourself of the pleasures of pretty things and learning what female things suit her just because she isn't far ahead in transition yet.

I don't advocate for people to transition now if they don't want to. Everyone should take their time. But we gotta remember not everything is because of gender dysphoria, it may just be she is a perfectionist . But there's nothing with questioning where our opinions stand on things once in a while James, after all that, is why you and I are in this site. Just don't say you're a transgender woman , until you have made up your mind properly. I hope I'm not coming across wrong . But you can't say I'm not male, I'm not female, but I'm not intersex either but I am a transgender woman. Being a transgender woman makes you a female. Period. However I respect you a lot for taking your time in questioning where you are.

Carli,

It's not crossdressing for me per se.  There's the part of me that is a perfectionist that won't allow me to present as female until there's that certain level of passability.  There are also the logistics to consider - if I was happy to declare myself bankrupt, make my kids destitute, sure, why not, jump feet first into transition.  The thing is, I _can_ manage as I am for the time being, I've done enough to keep things at bay for now, and I'm gender fluid enough to manage on either side of the divide so to speak (Whether it's living or not is another story).  Someday, I might say stuff it all, I'm transitioning, but for now, I'm running and keeping on running, but I'm content. =)

I can see hints of who I might become when I look in the mirror on some days, but I made an oath to myself to meet certain obligations.  I've been hurt very badly before from people failing to make good on their promises and obligations, and I refuse to do the same.  If I could meet them and transition, perhaps I would reconsider, but as it stands, no.

Quote from: luna nyan on April 14, 2014, 06:17:00 AM
Carli,

It's not crossdressing for me per se.  There's the part of me that is a perfectionist that won't allow me to present as female until there's that certain level of passability.  There are also the logistics to consider - if I was happy to declare myself bankrupt, make my kids destitute, sure, why not, jump feet first into transition.  The thing is, I _can_ manage as I am for the time being, I've done enough to keep things at bay for now, and I'm gender fluid enough to manage on either side of the divide so to speak (Whether it's living or not is another story).  Someday, I might say stuff it all, I'm transitioning, but for now, I'm running and keeping on running, but I'm content. =)

I can see hints of who I might become when I look in the mirror on some days, but I made an oath to myself to meet certain obligations.  I've been hurt very badly before from people failing to make good on their promises and obligations, and I refuse to do the same.  If I could meet them and transition, perhaps I would reconsider, but as it stands, no.

Well, you make a lot of sense, and I think in your situation, that responsibility does matter a lot, hopefully, one day you'll have managed to get both done so everyone is happy including you  :)...

Well I ordered some female clothes the other day because I started to get the urge to dress female (despite dreading the thought of triggering any sort of dysphoria) they arrived this afternoon and I am trying them now. So far no bad reaction! In fact it feels slightly better than androgynous clothes!

I even got the sizes right on my first try! Just need to find some sort of bottom piece. Right now  I just have my universal hemp jeans.

Now I just have to wait until I can actually tuck...sadly I don't fit while in an enlarged state so to speak.

By the way thank you Carly for the comment of my facial structure. I honestly can't see things like that in faces (prosopagnosia) so it really helps when people point stuff out. Good or bad.

I noticed many peeps in the trans section seem to use the term crossdress as a description of putting girl clothes on a male body, and vice versa.

I feel there is a term I am missing here... to be destinct from crossdress and d.r.a.g (dressed as a girl). 
Obviously I wear mens clothes to avoid confrontation - I am not 'cross dressing' as it is not me expressing a male side of my identity (I don't have one- I have a make character I play with its associated costume).  Wearing female clothes is expressing my correct gender- it's not cross dressing, and not drag (the 'AS a girl' bit being incorrect- I AM a girl).

I am at the stage of knowing I am about to start hrt, watching all the girls clothes in the shops and streets and yearning.  I know its going to be like a guitar string going into tune... nasty till you get it aligned.  Once the body is aligned my dressing will feel right.

Quote from: Emmaline on April 23, 2014, 09:30:28 AM
I know its going to be like a guitar string going into tune... nasty till you get it aligned.  Once the body is aligned my dressing will feel right.

I think this is probably th closest to as perfect a description as I've heard.  We're (at least, I am) a girl inside, so wearing anything female-oriented, helps fit a piece of the puzzle into the big picture.  Once the other pieces (HRT, nails, hair, style, poise, mannerisms, SRS(or not)) are also in place, then it will look like a real picture.  But each piece being placed, helps me see what the complete pic, may be.  I know there are those that collect all the pieces, and place them at once.. I'm just not that way.

(possibly trigger here -->   skip to next msg!)






And tho I have decided to stop where I am, for the sake of my family, if I resume my journey, I will go back to wearing, something.. that will feel like me inside, obvious, or not..

Quote from: calicarly on April 13, 2014, 05:32:19 AM
I am flabbergasted, that so many of you think that wearing women's clothes would be cross dressing, it's like Most of you don't realize that being transgender is all about, so long you are a woman heart and would then you CAN NOT cross dress by wearing women's clothes, in fact, I think you cross dress by wearing male clothes, it isn't about making your body comfortable, it's about making your mind comfortable, I am with the girls who say make clothes to me were always like barb wire, awful. Dressing up should be, for many, a way to realize how wonderful they feel, how much more connected they are to their true self then. Not a matter of what others will think, fear . Should never be in a transgender woman's repertoir !!

Thats nice, but twenty years ago before I even had an idea I was ts, it was CDing. I can't retroactively reclassify my actions in the past. That was of course a manifestation of being ts, but it was clearly CD, and clearly didn't "pass" nor was I trying to, since i didnt even know I was ts then.

Quote from: calicarly on April 13, 2014, 05:32:19 AM
I am flabbergasted, that so many of you think that wearing women's clothes would be cross dressing, it's like Most of you don't realize that being transgender is all about, so long you are a woman heart and would then you CAN NOT cross dress by wearing women's clothes, in fact, I think you cross dress by wearing male clothes, it isn't about making your body comfortable, it's about making your mind comfortable, I am with the girls who say make clothes to me were always like barb wire, awful. Dressing up should be, for many, a way to realize how wonderful they feel, how much more connected they are to their true self then. Not a matter of what others will think, fear . Should never be in a transgender woman's repertoir !!

While I agree that a woman on the inside should be able to be a woman on the outside too, OP makes a good and sober point.

I've seen a lot of people in the LGBT community "cheerlead" people into thinking they can do or be whoever they want. In the real world this is not true. This is harsh, but if someone physically looks like a man and wears women's clothes, to most people in the real world they'll appear as a man wearing women's clothes. If someone can ignore this judgement then that's wonderful. But I think it's really hurtful.

I started wearing typical guy's teeshirts and jeans and moved from more androgynous, to more feminine, to typical women's clothes. But this was over a couple years. One of the biggest things in my opinion is becoming comfortable in these clothes as often it's not only the clothes themselves that define gender but the way someone presents in them (gait, etc.).

ssssssssssss

Quote from: teeg on April 26, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
I've seen a lot of people in the LGBT community "cheerlead" people into thinking they can do or be whoever they want. In the real world this is not true.

Wow! This floored me! This posted on a support site? Where does this anger stem from? ???

It makes no sense that wearing traditional female clothing should be crossdressing for men when wearing traditional male clothing is totally normal and acceptable for women.

Quote from: mac1 on August 02, 2014, 07:49:20 PM
It makes no sense that wearing traditional female clothing should be crossdressing for men when wearing traditional male clothing is totally normal and acceptable for women.

Males invented "no homo" and thus are the ones who "cross dress" Women are generally allowed to wear whatever we want because we're awesome like that. ^_^
90% of the male existence boils down to penis and homophobia.

Quote from: Juliett on August 04, 2014, 06:54:29 AM
Males invented "no homo" and thus are the ones who "cross dress" Women are generally allowed to wear whatever we want because we're awesome like that. ^_^
90% of the male existence boils down to penis and homophobia.

Never based my existance on my penis. It is just an unnecessary appendage and it does not have any practical purpose for me.

I'm with the OP and not really wanting to cross dress yet. The problem is that the female clothes don't fit my body as is and so it makes me very uncomfortable to see myself in them. I've tried some cross dressing in private and while I like the feel of the clothes actually seeing myself in them really bothers me. Once I've been on HRT for a while and actually have a somewhat feminine body I think I'll want to start dressing in girl attire.

So just an update ( as the OP) now that this thread has been dredged out of the depths... Once I started to take Hormones, my mind shifted and I started wearing women's clothes. But at that point I wouldn't consider it cross dressing anymore. After all I had female hormones coursing through my body.

Oh, and I'll fitting clothes still make me feel weird inside, so that is definitely a thing, I mean the major source of my issues before.

Oh, and fitting skinny jeans are amazing! They are probably the best fitting clothes I own now, so that's why I like them the best.

Sorry for rambling... I had coffee!

Oh and Jessica, that comment you quoted, yeah it seem like a shot out of the dark, but I just ignored it at the time.

Alright everyone: carry on with the topic if you want, as I don't need it now that it no longer applies to me.

Clothes don't make the person however they are almost everything about how other perceive us. I do wish I was not constrained to wearing male clothes, but I am aware of how others perceive me and for now I still have to present myself as a man.

I'm pre-everything and do not crossdress unless you call occasionally wearing pretty PJs crossdressing. I have met a few others in the TG spectrum that I would consider more of a transvestite than a classic transsexual and do not understand why I do not want to play dress up and some even question the validity of my gender issues based on this.

My plan is to dress androgynous which I already do to an extent and when I start HRT slowly present myself as more feminine. I still fear people who know me as man seeing me as a women.

I am not happy nor comfortable living as man. "Cross-dressing" does not help with this.

I would like to be able to pass as female when wearing casual unisex type clothes. Then maybe I could progress to being female in other ways and even to wearing more feminine clothes.

Quote from: mac1 on August 30, 2014, 12:42:35 PM
I would like to be able to pass as female when wearing casual unisex type clothes. Then maybe I could progress to being female in other ways and even to wearing more feminine clothes.

It's actually kind of the other way, learn to pass with as much help as you can get, in very feminine(not flaming) attire. When you have passing down to a science it doesn't matter if you are cross-dressed(that would be: back to your prior presentation), you will still be perceived as your current target gender.

No amount of male clothes change how I look or am perceived anymore, in my profile pic, does my hospital gown cause a gender preconception?

All;
This is a very interesting topic for me. Having transitioned once before and lived full time as a woman for nearly 2 years, only de-transitioning  due to financial circumstances and now some 30 years later transitioning again, this thread reminds me of  a period I went through the first time (and which has helped me now on my second transition).
When I transitioned before for a period in the early days I was still working as a man (for the first 60 days) and I went to a hypnotherapist who through treatments got me to accept that I was only cross dressing as a male, but that normality for me was that I was a woman and that the cross dressing need was only a transitory thing.
Then when I started working full time as a woman as a Secretary/receptionist, I never needed socially to dress as a male. (In fact my girlfriends one weekend gave all my male clothes to the thrift shop and made me shred my last pair of mens trousers. Mind you getting back a male wardrobe once I de-transitioned two years later was another costly affair.
Now on my second transition, I am dressing more non binary/andro where I can, but I find that I feel just more comfortable in a skirt or dress and anyway now increasingly so my male clothes just don't fit properly any more since with my increasing curves (bust, hips. thighs and especially bottom),only women's pants/.jeans or a skirt/dress looks natural on me as they are cut to fir the curves, unlike my old male clothes

Funny thing though is that I get a sense now/almost feeling that I am naked when leaving the house if I am not wearing at least mascara and lipstick.  So if in andro mode because of a work meeting, I always put on lip gloss
Judith

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 02, 2014, 07:00:05 PM
Wow! This floored me! This posted on a support site? Where does this anger stem from? ???

She's right you know. That is an accurate observation, not anger induced just keeping it real. So many have unrealistic expectations about transitioning.

While in some communities it does not matter how one dresses, it means everything in most. The reality is some need a lot of help before the can come close to passing. When someone with an obvious male body wears a dress, has horrible make-up, a male gait,  ect, ect. and expects to get treated like a normal women, get free drinks at lady's night, uses the women's locker room at the gym; they are going to face some backlash.

This is the reality for many who identify as trans.

Just my opinion....

IN a way, I don't understand it is if you are planning on living as woman.
You will need years of experience in dressing and applying make up so that you wouldn't have any unnecessary mistakes will doing the real life test(where you could be read) which could get you into some major trouble in some areas of this country. As well as doing things like walking, sitting and many others which you should be doing automatically. Then you wouldn't have to say oops I didn't do this or that.

It would be like having SRS suddenly and never dressing. as you will not know what to do in special occasions.

Of course this will mean nothing if you are not planning at a later date to live as a woman.

i will try my best to explain how my own gender issues are at the moment. i had it explained that there are many forms of gender identity as we know its a broad spectrum. my problem was identified as a body dysphoria as i dont at the moment have an urge to wear dresses although i like fem jeans ect.i was advized not to force it as my femanine side will evolve by itself. i have worked for women that would make you look twice to get there gender. society wants use to appear within certain peramiters but there are always ones like me that are at a far end of the spectrum. to me whats more important is being yourself. yes i want to look fem but maybe not as people expect. id be happy with people regarding me as a trans man who took a few steps backwards, as long as i can have my body put right the rest will fall into place. it seems a lot of trans people try to rush the procces and miss finding out who they are.i wouldnt worry if the desire to dress fem isnt there, wait you may find it comes along by its self

I would like to be able to pass as either female or male (as desired) without being questioned as though I did not belong to the desired group.

it has to be each persons individual choice but unfortunatly theres a lot of pressure from socity to conform. it would be interesting to see how girls started and how they are now after transition and a few years as fem. im sure my ideas will change as i get more used to it, i feel a freedom i have never experienced before.in truth im not sure what i like but im working on it.

Skirts (particularly long hippie skirts.. oh how I love them :) ), I'll wear around the house.  Because i currently have a stocky-muscular build, most other stuff feels off kilter. Back when i was married, i'd wear my wife's skirts and bras when she was at work. But if i saw my face/beard i'd freak out a bit and instantly take them all off. Some one else mentioned purging, i did that as well. Periodically i'd get somethings on the sly at a thrift store, and usually when i had 2 maybe 3 outfits worth i'd have minor freakout  and get rid of it all.   More recently i'l had the urge to wear fem clothes, but it still feels sort of like i'm tossing a tarp over a mattress rather than sheets and covers... if that makes any sense.

I relate to this feeling a bit as well. I too would love to just be perceived as female no matter how "unfeminine" my clothing choices are.. however I do enjoy dressing up and as my gender, and I'm planning a (my first) RLE day soon, where I will be wearing female attire.

Quote from: ASoulBird on September 22, 2014, 04:46:31 AM
I relate to this feeling a bit as well. I too would love to just be perceived as female no matter how "unfeminine" my clothing choices are.. however I do enjoy dressing up and as my gender, and I'm planning a (my first) RLE day soon, where I will be wearing female attire.

I hope that everything goes well for you. Let us know.

Back to the original question...

I had the same thing when I started.  For me, it was not wanting to dress female because I would feel like a lug of a guy in a dress... something I was raised to see as a horrible thing.  Putting feminine clothes on a masculine body just highlighted the masculine body and tripped my dysphoria big time.  I didn't understand how crossdressers would do that to themselves.  I wanted to BE a woman.  So my version of crossdressing was playing female video game characters.

The moment I started to pass on HRT, that flipped.  By the time I started to dress in my actual genders clothes, I felt MORE feminine in the clothes.  Bingo.  It allowed me to go full time extremely quickly, and dressing in male clothes instead made me feel uncomfortable.

To be honest, I still don't get the whole crossdresser thing.  More power to them, but for me it was the body and the life... not the clothes that made it.

That sounds so familiar! I really would love to wear certain dresses and clothes but as for now I just leave it more unisex like. I got the feeling it doesn't matches my body otherwise =/.

I considered it crossdressing when I was forced to wear male clothing. It never fit my hips and it was nearly impossible to find a shirt small enough so as not to be too wide for me in the shoulders. And men's jeans were impossible to find small enough for my waist, fit my hips yet still long enough for my legs. Even if I could find pants small enough for my waist, I couldn't get them past my hips, so during these unfortunate times I always looked sloppy and unkept. And they don't make men's shoes that will fit my narrow feet. One time when I was 21 I had to be measured for a tux for a wedding. That turned into a nightmare. :icon_yikes: The place wouldn't rent me a tux, I would have had to buy it because of my feminine measurements which neither I nor my friend the groom, nor the bride's family wanted to do. This suited me fine(no pun intended) for like many others here, I absolutely loathed men's suits and tuxes and the idea of wearing one. Thankfully one of those things has never been on my body, lol! I ended up having to sit the wedding out. :icon_sadblinky:

So as soon as I was old enough I began always wearing women's jeans and shorts. This worked in the 80's and early to mid 90's until longer shorts became more popular and the style for men. Then everyone knew I was wearing women's shorts however I just didn't care. And since I was always so tiny I didn't get too much flack over it. I was also wearing exclusively women's clothes at home. They fit me and were just more comfortable. Though I was going through a rough time, I was so happy when I had my male fail now almost six tears ago and I got to give away or throw out all my male clothing. Most of which I didn't buy. I just never could bring myself to buy clothes that wouldn't fit. Most of my male clothing I had aquired through Christmas and birthday gifts from my adopted family much of it never even worn when I gave it away. I felt a little bad about it giving away presents, but I had no choice.:icon_ashamed:

So because of how I felt and looked wearing men's clothing, I understand how some feel about not wanting to wear female clothing until they have the body for it.

Ally ;)

i also feel the same way. Currently if i wear female clothes it makes me feel worse, mainly because I still see a male when I look in the mirror. Most of the dysphoria comes from my face. I hope that through hormones, facial hair removal and and growing out my hair i will feel more comfortable presenting in female clothing. 30 years of testosterone running through my veins feels like poison from the damage it has done.

Before coming out at home I dressed up all the time in private. However I felt so wrong with hair on my chest (and everywhere else, actually) and the clothes didn't fit because they weren't mine. 

Then I did a few things.

First things first I got rid of the body hair. HUGE difference.
Next, I got my own clothes that fit. This was great.

Then, I came out at home.

Now I dress every day. At home I present female but not really dresses and skirts because I don't want the kids blurting out in school that daddy wears a dress at home. It would be awkward until I come out to the school staff.

I shop for stuff on clearance and cheap. I also have an app for styling advice and I'm learning. Cis girls learned this when they are teenagers so I'm catching up. I really enjoy delving into it. However, my goal is not to look glamorous, it's to just look good or at least half decent.

And no I'm not on HRT. I used to self medicate but I don't anymore. However I do have a feminine-ish shape and proportions from before (measurements are almost an hourglass) as well as carry angle and other features so that helps. I am going on HRT soon though, and I am excited to see what it will bring.

I also need to address my facial hair. The therapist is emphasizing that and she's right. So I will be looking at laser and electro very soon and start that before I start HRT.

Anyway I enjoy dressing and I do it every chance I get. I have even been getting adventurous and going out in public dressed andro/femme. Nobody really bats an eye.

Quote from: ImagineKate on October 22, 2014, 08:49:29 PM
Before coming out at home I dressed up all the time in private. However I felt so wrong with hair on my chest (and everywhere else, actually) and the clothes didn't fit because they weren't mine. 

Then I did a few things.

First things first I got rid of the body hair. HUGE difference.
Next, I got my own clothes that fit. This was great.

Then, I came out at home.

Now I dress every day. At home I present female but not really dresses and skirts because I don't want the kids blurting out in school that daddy wears a dress at home. It would be awkward until I come out to the school staff.

I shop for stuff on clearance and cheap. I also have an app for styling advice and I'm learning. Cis girls learned this when they are teenagers so I'm catching up. I really enjoy delving into it. However, my goal is not to look glamorous, it's to just look good or at least half decent.

And no I'm not on HRT. I used to self medicate but I don't anymore. However I do have a feminine-ish shape and proportions from before (measurements are almost an hourglass) as well as carry angle and other features so that helps. I am going on HRT soon though, and I am excited to see what it will bring.

I also need to address my facial hair. The therapist is emphasizing that and she's right. So I will be looking at laser and electro very soon and start that before I start HRT.

Anyway I enjoy dressing and I do it every chance I get. I have even been getting adventurous and going out in public dressed andro/femme. Nobody really bats an eye.

I also have been like you.

barbie~~

One of the things I liked most about female clothing was that it actually fit my body shape far better than most men's clothing. Granted my shoulders are a tad broad for my liking but everyone's got something they don't like. Seriously though, even wearing men's size small I often felt like I must look like a gangly hobo. (I did look like a gangly hobo.)

I actually considered it cross dressing wearing men's clothing and that I had to wear men's clothing as long as I did... that said, I dressed pretty gender neutral and ambiguous for a while. Lots of tank tops at home, t shirts and jeans out. Sports bra while out when boobs were undeniable. Got used to tucking over time. Under three months after starting hrt I was full time. Felt pretty normal at that point to wear either or, though now, almost a year later, I dress just as much for my comfort as ever, but I never come close to or think about cross dressing as a dude again.

Dono what I was thinking doing that in the first place ;P.

I thought I may be embarking on the wrong path as I don't have much of a desire to wear female attire. 

Suits?  Can't stand them.  I see men in meetings wearing those things and I'm actually repulsed by them. 
Tuxedos?  Just as bad. 
Business casual?  Not fun but at least it's not male dressing up like suits. 
Workout/gym clothes?  AWFUL.  CAN'T STAND men's workout clothes.  Ever.  Bleccch.  Give me women's workout clothes 100% of the time.

Jeans and a t-shirt or collared polo shirt has been 'me'.  But really, I'm hiding behind not liking men's clothes in this choice of male attire.  I'm just not at the point yet where much of desire to identify as a woman with feminine attire just yet. 

This is a process, and that's OK.  I'm old enough to know that lessons are learned along the way of any lengthy process.  I'm learning! :)

Granted, I'm in week 7 of HRT, and I believe my story will be like others...once a certain threshold is reached, somewhere in the 3-6month HRT time span, the switch in the brain will be flipped to not want to wear male clothes much anymore. 

Either way, I'm going to enjoy all the benefits  of HRT...better mood, better sleep, smoother skin, no more depression.  The list is quite long for only being 7 weeks 'in' to HRT.  For now, I'm choosing to smile in my baggy, ugly men's jeans simply 'cuz I feel better in my own skin...better than I have in my entire life.

Oh I cannot go back to men's clothes.  You can't make me!

Quote from: Emmaline on November 17, 2014, 05:13:33 AM
Oh I cannot go back to men's clothes.  You can't make me!

I also hate it, but occasionally I have to do that for various social purposes. However, the frequency of my wearing men's clothes has been gradually decreased during the last 10 years.

barbie~~