Susan's Place Transgender Resources

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/03/17/3414231/school-bans-boy-from-wearing-my-little-pony-backpack-claims-its-a-trigger-for-bullying/
Judd Legum; Think Progress via ABC

A [young boy] was bullied — punched, pushed and called names — for bringing a My Little Pony lunch sack to school. The school has responded by telling the boy, Grayson Bruce, to leave the sack at home, calling it a "trigger for bullying." (emphasis added by LH)

The school said they were looking into the conduct of the bullies but have, to date, taken no public action.

[Mom objected because] "saying a lunchbox is a trigger for bullying, is like saying a short skirt is a trigger for rape. It's flawed logic, it doesn't make any sense."

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::) Yep, punish the victim.

Some people have no business running schools.

This appears to have been removed from the thinkprogress site. I wonder if it was unverifiable. Frustrating. I really wanted to read the story.

We talked about this on the show last night (done editing). Here's the link I was using.

http://iacknowledge.net/school-bans-bullied-boy-from-wearing-his-my-little-pony-bag-this-is-victim-blaming/

If school officials want to address all bullying, why don't they start with their own?

If this is true this is exactly the sort of thing I was war it about with that article where they refused to let students display American flags to protect those students... Taken  broadly that judgement would say that school administrators can use safety as an excuse to regulate anything a student does or expresses.

I am very worried that it is legal to deny a student the right to wear a dress even if gender discrimination is banned because the judges even said that saftey outweighs the first amendment so surely it outweighs a state law.

Schools are like this sadly, this particular case just got a bit of publicity. There are way too many administraters that believe themselves god compared to the students, and do whatever they want, like how they don't want to help that student.

Quote from: Xhianil on March 18, 2014, 12:55:59 PM
Schools are like this sadly, this particular case just got a bit of publicity. There are way too many administraters that believe themselves god compared to the students, and do whatever they want, like how they don't want to help that student.

Or they are so consumed by the moronic fantasy that their school is some friggin utopia, that they will sweep anything and everything under the rug. Bullies suck.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 18, 2014, 08:44:08 AM
This appears to have been removed from the thinkprogress site. I wonder if it was unverifiable. Frustrating. I really wanted to read the story.

It's back there now Suzi. 

http://www.ascd.org/ASCD/pdf/journals/ed_lead/el200303_inlay.pdf

OTOH- Bullying is a persistent problem that is very hard to stop. Adults can't be everywhere, all the time. And punishing the abusers they do catch has limited effect.   But preventing one instance where it was obviously going to get the kid repeatedly beat-up doesn't seem like that oppressive to me.  It used to be called "guidance" (ie: "Get a haircut you darn hippy!").  Yeah sucks,  everyone should be free to do what they want without being hassled, but we (and those school officials) live in the real world.

Quote from: JamesG on March 19, 2014, 11:32:59 AM
OTOH- Bullying is a persistent problem that is very hard to stop. Adults can't be everywhere, all the time. And punishing the abusers they do catch has limited effect.   But preventing one instance where it was obviously going to get the kid repeatedly beat-up doesn't seem like that oppressive to me.  It used to be called "guidance" (ie: "Get a haircut you darn hippy!").  Yeah sucks,  everyone should be free to do what they want without being hassled, but we (and those school officials) live in the real world.

Aren't you just a wee bit concerned that the bullies will feel it vindicates them in some small way, since it seems like the school administrators are agreeing with them about the inappropriateness of the MLP lunchbag?

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 19, 2014, 12:05:49 PM
Aren't you just a wee bit concerned that the bullies will feel it vindicates them in some small way, since it seems like the school administrators are agreeing with them about the inappropriateness of the MLP lunchbag?

Not to mention, if I were that kid, it would make me feel like the school administrators were on the bullies' side. I certainly do not agree with their response at all.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 19, 2014, 12:05:49 PM
Aren't you just a wee bit concerned that the bullies will feel it vindicates them in some small way, since it seems like the school administrators are agreeing with them about the inappropriateness of the MLP lunchbag?

Well, no one likes Bronies. 

I'M KIDDING!!!

Yes, you are right. And it depends on how they react/treat the bullies.  Ideally they come down on them like a ton of bricks, or... as much of a ton of bricks that a school principle can on punkass jerks (maybe one or two bricks gently tossed?).

And their intent wasn't to agree with the inappropriateness of the item.  It really wasn't even the issue. the kid would get bullied with or without the backpack.  They just chose the simplest, quickest remedy of the situation. ("Dr. it hurts when I do this."  "Then don't do that!").

I'm not saying I agree with the decision, only that I understand why they did it (and I'm feeling contrarian today  :P).

Quote from: Pikachu on March 19, 2014, 12:26:08 PM
Not to mention, if I were that kid, it would make me feel like the school administrators were on the bullies' side. I certainly do not agree with their response at all.

Exactly!

I've been in those situations as a child. I remember having many instances where the bastards that were screwing with me were able to manipulate the douches and I was the one that had the problem.

If I had a child, there is no way in hell I would subject them to the public school system. The first time that she or he was being bullied by the pricks and the administrative scumbags, people would be losing more than a few teeth.

No matter what it would take, I would make sure they were home schooled.

You cannot blame the victim for bullying! It is up to the schools to try and prevent it and stop it when it does happen. It is impossible to prevent rape, but we try and then prosecute those who do it when we catch them.The police department doesn't go around telling women to change because that suggestive outfit could get them in trouble! The victim blaming logic is totally indefensible, and we have far too much of it without institutionalizing it into our schools.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 19, 2014, 12:48:59 PM
If I had a child, there is no way in hell I would subject them to the public school system. The first time that she or he was being bullied by the pricks and the administrative scumbags, people would be losing more than a few teeth.

No matter what it would take, I would make sure they were home schooled.

Um...

Some of us WORK in the public school system and are very proud of the jobs we do.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 19, 2014, 05:48:41 PM
Um...

Some of us WORK in the public school system and are very proud of the jobs we do.

That's fine.

If you want to take offense to what I said, that's fine too.

I'm just telling it like it was. Most of the teachers and administrative people that I dealt with in school were complete pricks and would play favorites all of the time. I was insulted on more than one occasion by a few teachers and when I reported them, nothing was done about it.

Having said that, I did have a minority of very cool teachers. Most of them were middle aged women. The only exceptions were my 8th grade Social Studies teacher and my 8th grade English teacher.

I still stand by what I said, though. I would never put my child through the hell of public schooling. Yeah, they may come across a few cool teachers, but they stand a greater chance of being bullied by douchebag classmates, pathetic teachers and inept administrative schmucks.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 19, 2014, 05:48:41 PM
Um...

Some of us WORK in the public school system and are very proud of the jobs we do.

I'm hoping the one you work in is a much better place than the schools I attended. I'll have to second Laura's sentiment. School was an absolute hell when I went there. It was hardly focused on education at all and more about oppression and conformity, in every possible sense of those words. It was an absolute joke.

I just hope the rest of the staff there is as cool as you are, Suzi.

Quote from: Pikachu on March 19, 2014, 06:05:01 PM
It was hardly focused on education at all and more about oppression and conformity, in every possible sense of those words.

Thank you!

When I was in grade school, I would intentionally fail classes knowing that they would still pass me. I would confront them on this and they would give me some BS line. But even though I had failing grades (that weren't indicative of my true intelligence level, just my desire to not listen to what they wanted me to do), I was still passed to the next grade. They didn't care about my education at all, they just wanted to get rid of me. Sure, I could never be an "A" student (because I genuinely sucked at Math), but I could have at least scored a B in most other subjects. In my Social Studies, History, etc classes, I was almost always the teacher's pet. I remember a time during my Freshman year of high school, I was called to the guidance counselor's office over my grades and they pulled them up. Among a sea of "F"s was a lone "A+". When they asked me how I could do so well in one class (with a 105% grade, no less) and do so poorly in the others, I told him the truth: That I liked the class, the teacher was really cool and I didn't give a damn about the other classes. I spent a few days in ISS for swearing at him, but I didn't care. I saw their entire educational system as a joke.

A bit OT, but I mean come on I went to some great public schools, and some not so great ones. I find it almost laughable that someone could judge all public schools based on their own experience alone.

Quote from: Hikari on March 19, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
A bit OT, but I mean come on I went to some great public schools, and some not so great ones. I find it almost laughable that someone could judge all public schools based on their own experience alone.

I only judged what I dealt with. No need to say it was something else.

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 19, 2014, 06:26:10 PM
I only judged what I dealt with. No need to say it was something else.

Actually, no. What you said was:

Quote from: Laura Squirrel on March 19, 2014, 12:48:59 PM
If I had a child, there is no way in hell I would subject them to the public school system.

You didn't say "one of the public schools I dealt with.". You basically insulted the entire system and all of us who work hard to do a very difficult job.

I'm sick of my profession being used as a punching bag. This is a support site. Can't you take your comments to MakePeopleFeelBadAboutTheirJobs.org?

I really don't understand why Laura's personal bad experience with public schooling is making you feel bad, Suzi. A lot of people have had absolutely horrific experiences with it and I can tell you, it leaves scars. Oftentimes, very deep and painful ones. I'm not saying all public schools are bad, or that they are inherently bad, either, but I don't think it's any kind of stretch to say that for a lot of people, describing their time there as "hell" is a very apt description. It is for me. I know a lot of people for whom it is as well. Bullying, violence, uncaring teachers who simply want the day to hurry up and end and couldn't care less about educating young minds... Admittedly, my time in public school was better than my time in private school, where I witnessed violence at the hands of the staff themselves and had to deal with religious persecution, but well... that's really not saying a whole lot for it.

There's no need to feel bad. I'm assuming you're one of the good guys (girls), in this case. I'm assuming you're one of the teachers (or whatever your particular position is) that genuinely care about your students. And that's very important. Those kind of staff members save lives. They provide at least some temporary reprieve for kids like me, who had miserable home lives. Take pride in that. I may think the school system in this country is broken, but that doesn't mean it's not fixable, and that happens one good teacher at a time. You're making a difference.

I am a product of the public school system, as are my kids and wife and everyone else in my family. My mother-in-law was an educator as was my sister-in-law.

Most of the trouble I had in school was because I was an odd, femme little boy - I made a great target and the other kids picked on me. Most of the teachers did their jobs pretty well, and I remember a few outstanding teachers as well as a few complete duds.

A lot of my friends went to a private "prep" school that was nearby. I heard some horror stories about that place.

It seems that no school is perfect.

My kids didn't have a 100% positive experience in school but they learned valuable life lessons about how to deal with and overcome the adversity that they experienced there, the same type of lessons that I had to learn when I was a kid. IMO is better that they learned that in school rather than have to learn it later in life. Both of my kids are in college now and are well adjusted young adult women.

We get certain educational opportunities placed in front of us in life and it really depends on us as to what we do with them. People are people and they will act as they will; I would probably have gotten the same crap if I had gone to another school, and in fact the opportunity to go to the "prep" school was offered to me and I declined. Was my treatment in the public school justifiable? Nope. Did I like the way I got treated in school? Nope. Did I survive and take away some valuable life lessons? Yep. The experience went a long way toward teaching me about the nature of people.

By all means send your kids wherever you think is best for them, but please don't denigrate the public school system and the people that work in it. The majority of public school educators are there because they like educating, and they put their heart and soul into educating kids.

To respond to the topic - I agree that the school's action consists of victim blaming and they took the cowardly way out. The kid should be able to bring any item to school that is not explicitly banned by the school for everyone. The kids that abused him should be punished; letting them get away with it just teaches that it is OK to bully people you don't like.

Quote from: Pikachu on March 20, 2014, 07:33:59 AM
I really don't understand why Laura's personal bad experience with public schooling is making you feel bad, Suzi.

I'm happy to explain. She didn't just discuss her bad experiences. (Which I am sympathetic toward. My public (and private) schooling was not an unmixed positive).

What she did is say that there was "no way in hell" she would subject a child to "the public school system". I.e. no public school anywhere was suitable for educating children.

Does that make it clearer what is bothering me?

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 20, 2014, 09:03:51 AM
I'm happy to explain. She didn't just discuss her bad experiences. (Which I am sympathetic toward. My public (and private) schooling was not an unmixed positive).

What she did is say that there was "no way in hell" she would subject a child to "the public school system". I.e. no public school anywhere was suitable for educating children.

Does that make it clearer what is bothering me?

I suppose so... I guess I just feel a certain... I don't know... I guess I can just really relate to where she's coming from with that statement. Like I said, I'm not of the opinion that all public schools are awful, but my perception of them will forever be colored by my own experiences and the experiences of my friends. I imagine that if I had a child, those experiences would weigh heavily on my mind when selecting their method of schooling and choosing a school to send them to. Whether I would end up deciding to send them to public school or not, I can't say, but I can say I would have serious concerns about it.

Anyway, I really do appreciate what you're doing, Suzi. I just wish there had been more caring staff at the schools I attended. I'm especially glad to know there's a school somewhere with a trans* person on its staff. Where I come from, I imagine the whole town would be up in arms if someone hired a trans* teacher, sadly.

While this particular school board was in the wrong and afraid to take on the real issue, that does not mean that all Public School Boards are bad and certainly not all Public Teachers are bad either.

I had many excellent teachers when I was in school and only one or two that were not the cream of the crop.

Lets please keep thing civil here and avoid profanity and over generalizations.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 20, 2014, 09:03:51 AM
I'm happy to explain. She didn't just discuss her bad experiences. (Which I am sympathetic toward. My public (and private) schooling was not an unmixed positive).

What she did is say that there was "no way in hell" she would subject a child to "the public school system". I.e. no public school anywhere was suitable for educating children.

Does that make it clearer what is bothering me?

Well, if you want to get so angry over one person's point of view, that's your issue to deal with. I would be a liar if I said anything other than what is the absolute truth regarding my experiences in those days. If you felt that I was using you as a "punching bag" then you obviously have some issues. I don't believe in sugar coating my opinion if I think/thought that something sucked. If my time in the public school system had been better, I would have obviously had a more positive spin to put on it. But after going through what I went through.....No. I have no other way to say it and no, I won't go to some specialized site just because you have a problem with one person's experience.

Laura, nobody is doubting that what you are saying is complete truth about your own experience. I think you are being perfectly understood on that!

Drawing conclusions about so many other people's experiences and potential passions (in a negative light) is what I think suzi is upset about... because it is obviously something she loves.

I can relate to her, too, because both of my parents are retired public school teachers. They occasionally dealt with people talking negatively about the public school system, and it upset them greatly.

The education system as a whole is definitely something that needs all the help it can get, so I guess all I'm saying is let's try to not step on each others' toes - especially the toes of people trying to make the world a better place ;)