Susan's Place Transgender Resources

so over christmas i came out to my family and friends and to an astonishing amount of acceptance, but one of my friends said something to me one day that i just can't shake, he asked me if i knew if i was going to be happy with where i plan on ending up in the next year, he told me that he was worried that i would turn around after i had my FFS, BA, VFS, and SRS, and say that i might regret it and feel like it would be the biggest mistake of my life,

now i know that i am for sure 100% transgender and have been wishing for the gender fairy to visit me in the middle of the night and gimme the old flick of a wand and switcheroo, but i also believe the theory of a 2D perspective will never see the potential of a 3D world, and thus i feel like i cannot trust my own thoughts, with such a major decision i am making i cannot ignore the fact that i might be seeing my future in all glitz and glamor and not realizing that it will just be the same as it is now just with a different gender, i just want to set realistic expectations of were my life will be in the future and not get disappointed when i get there

so i have seen most regret filled transgender stories to be a lack of expectation or planning or just not realizing that they were gonna change gender when it was still a doubt in there mind, i have timelines and planning for my future transition, i have surgeons picked out, i have everything planned in my head and the only thing holding me back at this point is my timeline not being there yet and it is killing me, i just don't know if i should be worried since i truly and absolutely wish i could do it tomorrow, and have almost no doubt that i want it immediately, i feel like the waiting is what helps me weed out the possibility of regret in the future, because the moments when i would potentially look back and regret, i would instead think back to how long it took and how it was such hell to wait for it, like every day that i have to tuck that damn thing away and not be able to wear my lululemon pants in public because they show or the other cute outfits that i have because they are to daring, i just want to cut it of myself lol

so basically i want to just ask all post op girls or boys for both FFS and SRS, if you ever had regrets and why did you have them?

Between hours 24 to 36 post op, I had one terrible ton of regret, but it was in relation to the pain and healing process, and not really anything else.  I and others I know have had a time in that period when all you could do was cry, but the crying worked and got something else out of our system.  It may have been left over effects from anesthetic, or a spiritual issue of loss of blood and other tissue, but once it was over and our faces washed, it was over.

In a post in another Site, I wrote about the fact that we never fully understand or can predict the full impact of our decision to go forward with surgery. There are little items that we forget in our planning that can throw us for a loop.  I had planned for stitches coming out, other healing issues, all but one I ended up with.  When those hit, I did get a "what have I done" moment and may have let my eyeballs leak in frustration.  I was angry at the time it took me for added hygiene, and it was embarrassing to have my little donut seat with me for a month whenever I went out somewhere that I had to sit for a while.  As time has gone on though, the biggest issue I am seeing is that I no longer have the planning and the hoping and stress of doing the lead up to surgery.  There is a vacuum where there had been a lot of action, the issues of gender for my body are in the past, and I need to fill the space where they had been.  Nothing to make me want to go back to male in body or socialization, but the high heels are replaced by running shoes, and the lacy gowns for evenings on the town are Bermuda shorts and an ordinary T shirt, and femme is wearing a Breast Cancer Awareness T shirt. You will quickly find an ORDINARY life, dysphoria is not replaced by euphoria (the old bod still hurts and gets sunburned) but by routine, that while it is YOU, you realize you are no longer the center of attention and are just ordinary.  (But I love it.)

Im pre-op and I share your sentiments and I like what you said that Disphoria does not get replaced bu Euphoria .I long for having a vacuum from where all the disphoria issues were I look forward to fill it Not sure with what yet but at least it will be vacant ... to have the luxury to think of mundane things at leisure and not have this cloud of "what, when, how,should I, can I  uncertainty hang over me..  Bliss for me, lies there. Not Euphoria

I had to give up the love of my life to transition, and I'm much less binary than most people so I'm on the genderqueer end of the spectrum (prefer to be a woman but didn't experience major dysphoria as a man). I have moments of wondering whether I should have stayed male and led a happy life with him. But in the end, I know that my life has so much more meaning and dimension now and the regret is only a passing thought.

For me i never had the fear of doubt in walking my path.

I also lost a marriage of almost 25 years due to my dysphoria.

Only regreat i have is i did not understand my dysphoria many years earlier.

Everyone has to be comfortable and happy with who they are and where they need to go.

Its so true, you only get out of life what you put into it.

As my sign is says my mind is quiet now.

Not everyone is supposed to walk this path and if there is doubt it needs to be explored with ones therapist and your RLT.

Never rush anything, take all the time you need to make a decision that is right for you. Stop when you find your happy spot in life.]

Isabell

I have had FFS and SRS

I do not regret either surgery 100%

I DO regret getting work on my jaw
I have difficulty breathing out of my nose in one nostril
I have a large scar on my hairline
I have a little bit of numbness on the top of my head

Was the FFS worth it? well...
I suppose I do look better however (not including the jaw work). I rarely wear make up nowadays

I don't regret SRS at all but the recovery was tough. Maybe I wish I could have kept the other bits to enjoy a bit longer but SRS would have been inevitable for me.

I'm not post-op in any way, but I thought you would enjoy this little infographic which sheds some light on the matter statistically:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2F78e661b286ecd70fa7cf8da2c71ccd53%2Ftumblr_mgr2lk612q1rctihmo1_r1_500.jpg&hash=6438a683da53916ec98cb43aa1fa57e5629634d3)

It is worth noting that genital surgery has by far the lowest satisfaction rate of anything, with three times as many people not being satisfied with it as are with HRT. But still, 90% are indeed satisfied. So while it does indeed bear consideration that regrets are definitely possible, and pretty common, and therefore making absolute sure that you're ready and have considered all of the possible connotations is VERY important, 9 out of 10 people who have it are indeed satisfied. (This is from a survey of 448 trans individuals.)

In a 2003 study of 232 post-op trans women who had all received SRS at the same clinic using the same technique between 1994 and 2000, ZERO expressed outright regret, with only a few expressing occasional regret. And dissatisfaction was most strongly associated with inadequate aesthetics or function, not with feeling like surgery was the wrong choice.

Again, these are just a couple of studies. There are many on this site who have indeed expressed regret. But it's really not as common as you might think. A vast majority of trans women who have the surgery will be happy with it.

Pre-transition and SRS in 1974 I had no idea what lay ahead but I knew I couldn't stay where I was - it was killing me - so when I made the change it was with the determination that whatever came of it, I would make the best of it. As it turned out life was WAY better than anything I had dreamed of.

Everybody has their good days and their bad days but at least as a woman I was in a better position (frame of mind) to deal with the hard times.

Of the folks I know who have regrets about GCS, the greatest number had unrealistic expectations of what the surgeon could work on their bodies.  The next greatest number are people who had unrealistic expectations of how life in general for them would be, almost all not seeing that it would be much the same as it had been.  If they could not play the piano before GCS, they could not play it post op either!!  As reality sinks in and Life On Life's Terms plays out though, the grumbling is getting weaker.

Okay, this is my turn to sound like a complete idiot... But I am just starting down this path so please excuse my ignorance. I know what SRS is, but what is FFS? I figure the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked... LOL

^Here's a definition of every term that the OP mentioned:

SRS = Sex-Reassignment Surgery
FFS = Facial Feminization Surgery
VFS = Voice Feminization Surgery
BA = Breast Augmentation

Quote from: Vicky on March 21, 2014, 05:50:09 PM
Of the folks I know who have regrets about GCS, the greatest number had unrealistic expectations of what the surgeon could work on their bodies.  The next greatest number are people who had unrealistic expectations of how life in general for them would be, almost all not seeing that it would be much the same as it had been.  If they could not play the piano before GCS, they could not play it post op either!!  As reality sinks in and Life On Life's Terms plays out though, the grumbling is getting weaker.

Very well said Vicky. Ditto.

Isabell

I transitioned long ago in the 90s, but only had SRS recently. The only regret I could potentially have had is if I lost the ability to orgasm. Even though I was prepared for this eventuality pre-op, being actually post-op and inorgasmic was not fun, to say the least. In the first few weeks post-op my libido shot up. All that preparedness shot out of the window. I considered going to my GP and getting some anti-depressants to kill my libido to get some relief that way. But, six weeks in and I managed to work out how to obtain an 'O' again, and on demand. I can tell you that that was a mind-blowing relief!

What happens if you have a high libido and become inorgasmic? I thought I was prepared.

Euphoria? That's when I squeeze my butt into tight pants and see or feel no bulge!  It's sublime. :laugh:

Quote from: Nicolette on March 24, 2014, 01:57:59 PMBut, six weeks in and I managed to work out how to obtain an 'O' again, and on demand. I can tell you that that was a mind-blowing relief!

What happens if you have a high libido and become inorgasmic? I thought I was prepared.

This is one of the expectations that can get blown way out of the water, we compare post life to pre-life, and post abilities to pre-abililties, and it works like a dead horse.  I much prefer postie O to guy O, but it is different.  Figure it will be different, and you win more than you can believe.

Quote from: Nicolette on March 24, 2014, 01:57:59 PM
Euphoria? That's when I squeeze my butt into tight pants and see or feel no bulge!  It's sublime. :laugh:

ROFLMAO -- Oh gawd, getting my breath back from laughing!!  How true indeed!!

Quote from: Nicolette on March 24, 2014, 01:57:59 PM
Euphoria? That's when I squeeze my butt into tight pants and see or feel no bulge!  It's sublime. :laugh:

Vicky and Nicolette, you are killing me! I am laughing here. :) But you know what? That is exactly one of the things I am looking forward to! :)

I'm one who had SRS and regrets it. I had it eleven months and two days ago.

I went through all of the gatekeeping: over a year of therapy before being allowed to have any HRT, and having to be full-time to get doses of HRT that would actually do anything (my first year of HRT was less than the minimum guideline range.) My therapist also enforced the one year RLE requirement for SRS as one year since the first post-FT session I had with her, and then delayed further, such that it meant I had over two years of RLE before I had SRS. I had my first therapy appointment in which I asked to begin the process of getting HRT and transitioning nearly 20 years ago - in the early summer of 1994.

However, the reason I regret it was that all of that came with the pressure to either transition with SRS or not transition at all - deciding that SRS was not for me meant losing access to HRT and all support for my transition. It was of the sort of gatekeeping that many believe disappeared across the entire US in the 1990s, but it was still around in my current region, a metro area with a population over two million. There was regular aggression from them due to the fact that I was not able to update my legal gender (a common one was insurance billing headaches because they insisted on keeping me as male in their records when my insurance for the past 2.5 years has had me as female.) Additionally, I faced some misinformation in the effort to persuade me to have SRS that served to set me up for unrealistic expectations, e.g. that having limited sensation and swelling after 3-6 months was unheard of.

I'm in therapy, with a different therapist of course, to help deal with depression and regret. The depression dates back more than two years now and developed following an E dose reduction. Alas, it has not had the libido suppression effect for me. I really wish it would because the lack of any sex drive for the time I was on Spiro was perfect for me (this fact was the reason my E dose was reduced as previously mentioned - the doctor was concerned that I was content with no sex drive.) After SRS my libido returned and has not relented.

Orgasm after SRS is extremely disappointing for me. I basically don't get the orgasmic pleasure release step, going straight from building-up to post-orgasm (arousal vanishes, clit becomes hyper-sensitive, etc.) It becomes all about relief from my libido, which is what I had before HRT but with less reward now.

Ultimately, my regret/satisfaction with SRS is mixed. In the regret column is that my body feels wrong - disfigured, even. In the satisfaction column is being at last free of the gatekeeping, particularly secure access to HRT, being able to have my legal gender (updating that marker on my driver's license even required the letter from my surgeon!) and so forth.

The only point the doubts, which I had consciously buried years ago to get access to HRT, emerged again was four weeks before my scheduled date, and by that point I was under so much stress that I couldn't figure it out anymore - I was no longer capable of making a choice.

To be completely honest I was expecting some sort of divine intervention when I woke up with a vagina for the first time. But I was just me. I hadn't really changed at all. All the my problems were still there, they didn't just disappear. But for the first time in my life I had courage to face them head on, having an SRS gave my strength to face my fears. Besides that, probably the most important, it gave me hope. Hope that one day my life would be everything I want it to be. Everyone dreams of a future filled with glitz and glam don't let other shake you. But know that if you hadn't truly looked at all sides of the argument you could never be sure you were making the right choice. Listen to you heart, but let your head make the wisest decision for you. Because you are the one who had to live with it, not anyone else.

Much love

Nope. Not for an instant. I did have some doubts beforehand - I'm the sort of person who second-guesses myself about dinner, so that wasn't a shock - but was 95% sure.

I think one of the necessary downsides of informed consent is going to be people who are unable or unwilling to BE informed; this is true with cis people and elective surgery, too, where someone doesn't bother to read all the information provided, signs on the dotted line anyway, and ends up surprised by an outcome that they *were* warned about. But I also think people are allowed to make whatever changes they want to their bodies, even if it's sometimes a mistake. In short, I suspect a lot of the regretters either ignored the fine print or expected something like Violet's "divine intervention," and discovered that changing the genitals won't fix anything unrelated they didn't like about their lives/situations/minds.

Frankly, I see the same thing about people going into transition - the ones who are damaged by life or unwilling to take responsibility for their lives will find that transition doesn't cure anything but trans-related problems, and come out the other end still depressed and looking for a scapegoat. (I sympathize with them, mind you. It's the luck of the draw that I didn't have those sorts of issues, and never had to deal with any transition-related traumas either.)

Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 17, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
I think one of the necessary downsides of informed consent is going to be people who are unable or unwilling to BE informed; this is true with cis people and elective surgery, too, where someone doesn't bother to read all the information provided, signs on the dotted line anyway, and ends up surprised by an outcome that they *were* warned about.

I don't know that there's any way to win that one given problems that may come with gatekeeping (like I experienced.) For me, the information was there, but I had therapists and doctors actively asserting that what my surgeon's packet included was archaic, present for only legal CYA reasons.

Frankly, I see someone ignoring the information out of their own choice as a better risk, however much marginally so, than having professionals lie to them.

J : I guess you must be new to the site; I see people posting about post-op complications a lot here. Not that anecdotes prove much, but it'd certainly have shown that your therapists + doctors were lying.

I'm hardly new; been around here since late 2008. They dismissed such things as "so rare that it's less likely than being in a plane crash" or similar analogies. Plus, there's the point of the power they had over my life - access to HRT, etc. - and willingness to use it as part of persuading me.

I suppose it all depends what your definition of "regret" is? If you mean did I regret having surgeries, including Srs, then no.that was my choice to do. No one put a gun to my head and said do it. I wanted this operation, more than anyone else will ever know except maybe someone else who has also had it as well. In the end I am happy and contented living a woman's life.

If on the other hand by regret, do you mean, have I ever just sat and thought about what my life would be like today if I never had transitioned, then sure. I have thought that before. As I get older and with each new year of female living it fades a little more and the thoughts are dismissed more quickly.

My own ->-bleeped-<- was lifelong. It started as a child and only got worse as I grew order until I knew I had to do something about it. I had started going out when I was a teen. Until that point I was closeted. The more I was out the more out I wanted to be, I have nod idea of why I am the way I am, I just have no regrets over who I am now. I've embraced and now love the person I am now and still becoming, even after all these years.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 17, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
I think one of the necessary downsides of informed consent is going to be people who are unable or unwilling to BE informed; this is true with cis people and elective surgery, too, where someone doesn't bother to read all the information provided, signs on the dotted line anyway, and ends up surprised by an outcome that they *were* warned about. But I also think people are allowed to make whatever changes they want to their bodies, even if it's sometimes a mistake. In short, I suspect a lot of the regretters either ignored the fine print or expected something like Violet's "divine intervention," and discovered that changing the genitals won't fix anything unrelated they didn't like about their lives/situations/minds.

Frankly, I see the same thing about people going into transition - the ones who are damaged by life or unwilling to take responsibility for their lives will find that transition doesn't cure anything but trans-related problems, and come out the other end still depressed and looking for a scapegoat. (I sympathize with them, mind you. It's the luck of the draw that I didn't have those sorts of issues, and never had to deal with any transition-related traumas either.)

The problem isn't really informed consent or gatekeeping in this situation. Sure there are some downsides to be said about both, but the honest truth is you could have no gatekeeping at all, literally ANYONE could walk up to any SRS surgeon, cash in hand and get surgery no questions asked. Even if they weren't living in their target gender - and some would be happy with the surgery.

On the flip side of that, you could have insano gatekeeping, 10 years RLT and 10 days of sworn testimony about how the patient wants new genitals and some might still regret it.

The bottom line is sometimes people eff up. Sometimes people make decisions they regret - even if they made all the right moves ahead of time. Said regretters are viewed as non-existent or enemies of trans people. I don't want to deny anyone else's right to transition or get SRS. In fact, transition has been a double edged sword because while transition (socially and stuff like HRT and FFS) was the best move I ever made, SRS was my biggest blunder.

I regret it too. Just the surgery. And the big problem is most doctors were unwilling to help me or even touch me. They ignored me, they lectured me on how it was wrong to try to get a phalloplasty (presenting as a woman), or they said they could do nothing. So what do we do with a patient like me or Agent or anyone else for that matter? Thankfully I did find one reputable surgeon willing to do phalloplasty, but if life couldn't kick me hard enough it failed because of a blood clot. I get to try again in a month, maybe my luck will be better than last year...

Roxanne : I did try to be very clear that I think everyone has a right to make these decisions for themselves, even if they screw it up. As for treating people with regrets as enemies of the community, that's cruel and unfair. I keep hoping that if we could, as a community, accept that sometimes trans people will make mistakes just like cis people, we could move past this divisiveness in which people with regrets are driven into the closet/harassed/deleted from the discussion.

My point was actually that I believe in informed consent *even if* someone regrets it afterward, and that I hate to see post-op regrets trotted out (as they so often are) as a weapon against the idea of IC. That's not fair to either the people who do regret it or those who will be gatekept even harder as a result...

Again, to be clear, I'm also 100% on board with allowing someone like you to get a phalloplasty, no questions asked and no roadblocks. Not that it's my job to allow or deny, thank goodness, but I mean that I don't think the system should be set up so that most doctors can deny you, as they now did. Bad enough that you underwent one surgery you regretted; it's a thousand times worse to then force you to live without correcting that mistake. In fact, if it's not too presumptuous, allow me to say I admire you - you realized GRS was a mistake, and set out to correct it, without blaming everyone around you and claiming there should have been more gatekeeping and whatnot. I see absolutely no reason why that should make your story an unwelcome one, although I realize that it often *does* work out that way.

I'm glad you found a surgeon willing to try to reverse the choice for you, and I wish you luck with the second try. The first failure had to be heartbreaking.

The reason I advocate for Informed Consent is because feel strongly that a certain class of gatekeepers do deserve some blame for regret when it is due to them pushing archaic requirements such as that one is only a woman if they are femme and that SRS is a requirement, enforced by withholding long-term access to HRT, and being opposed to legal changes that make the lives of those who have not had SRS easier, such as being able to update the gender marker on their driver's license (for the time when I was in that stage of transition doing so in my state required SRS; there was an attempt to change it and gatekeepers were opposed. I was directly told by one that such a restriction is necessary to compel people to "complete" transition.)

While we can argue that both systems will, unavoidable, have regret, a major problem in the gatekeeping system is that providers can, and do, undertake actions which have the effect of fomenting regret.

Yeah... I definitely think that's a problem, when we're basically telling people that what they know is right for them has to be wrong because this is what works for a majority of people. Unfortunately, that's kind of how our system has worked for a long time, and we're only now starting to embrace the diversity in all of its colors and realizing that the "best fit" doesn't work for everyone.

And I'm wondering if that is where a lot of the post-op regret comes from, is from people basically being told "hey, you're trans, so you've been on HRT and you've legally transitioned, when are you going to get SRS?" Where SRS becomes an expectation of transition that people feel pressure to live up to, rather than just being something that people seek of their own free will.

I'm always wondering this, because I'm really scared of regret, and yet SRS is something that I wanted before I even admitted to myself that I was trans, so I'm just wondering if anyone in that situation has had regrets, or if it's more the crowd who was on the fence about SRS but decided to get it anyway because of the "well, I'm trans, I guess I should get it even though I'm not sure about it" crowd.

Back on topic, will you regret SRS, FFS, etc.

It turns out the human brain is amazing at coping with decisions we make and act upon and pretty bad at coping with regret over the things we did not do.

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy

You might also want to watch the following on choice and regret since we are doing Ted talks:

http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice

The odds are your brain will work in the same way.

^To be fair, though, in that Dan Gilbert talk, there was a metaphor about students taking photographs who had to give one of them up. In it, half the students were given the option of changing their mind for up to 4 days before it was final, while the other half had to give one up immediately and had no option to change their mind. Those who had no choice, they were ultimately happy with their decision. But those who had the option to switch, who had the option to change their minds, they were never happy even after they'd made the decision.

And ultimately, I feel like FFS and SRS are much more like the scenario with choices. We schedule a surgery date, and then have months to decide whether we really are going to do it or not. We still have the option of backing out if we're having doubts. So to me, it seems like we'd have the same issues with always wondering "what if?" that the students who could switch had. If we're on the fence about whether to do it or not and can't decide, we'll always wonder "what if?"

If you ask me, that presentation does teach something important, though. Having watched a lot of videos from trans women talking about SRS, many of them have said that they'd had friends who were unsatisfied with it. (Not necessarily regretting, but just not as happy as they thought they'd be.) And Kat Blaque especially said that in most of the cases she'd seen, it was because they had unrealistic expectations going in. They expected that their life would somehow be magically happy and perfect if they had the surgery done. So this talk really helped me think about what a good reason to have SRS is. Basically, what I think I'm getting is that if one is happy with how they are now, but expects SRS to somehow magically make them happier, it probably won't. They'll probably end up at the same level of happiness as before and will be disappointed. But if being pre-op is an actual problem, something that impairs their life, something that is about removing an active source of discomfort rather than chasing after happiness, SRS does indeed seem to solve those feelings of pain, and is therefore probably a good decision.

I think my big takeaway was that happiness can be "synthesized" and that "synthetic" happiness is no less real than whatever people call real happiness.

I totally agree with your statements, if I had to sum up my thoughts:

• If you think SRS is your only option and you go in with minimal expectations, you are most likely going to be very happy with the results.
• If you go in expecting the surgery to change how the world treats you and magically make you happy ever after then most likely you are going to be very disappointed.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on April 19, 2014, 02:50:49 AM
^To be fair, though, in that Dan Gilbert talk, there was a metaphor about students taking photographs who had to give one of them up. In it, half the students were given the option of changing their mind for up to 4 days before it was final, while the other half had to give one up immediately and had no option to change their mind. Those who had no choice, they were ultimately happy with their decision. But those who had the option to switch, who had the option to change their minds, they were never happy even after they'd made the decision.

And ultimately, I feel like FFS and SRS are much more like the scenario with choices. We schedule a surgery date, and then have months to decide whether we really are going to do it or not. We still have the option of backing out if we're having doubts. So to me, it seems like we'd have the same issues with always wondering "what if?" that the students who could switch had. If we're on the fence about whether to do it or not and can't decide, we'll always wonder "what if?"

If you ask me, that presentation does teach something important, though. Having watched a lot of videos from trans women talking about SRS, many of them have said that they'd had friends who were unsatisfied with it. (Not necessarily regretting, but just not as happy as they thought they'd be.) And Kat Blaque especially said that in most of the cases she'd seen, it was because they had unrealistic expectations going in. They expected that their life would somehow be magically happy and perfect if they had the surgery done. So this talk really helped me think about what a good reason to have SRS is. Basically, what I think I'm getting is that if one is happy with how they are now, but expects SRS to somehow magically make them happier, it probably won't. They'll probably end up at the same level of happiness as before and will be disappointed. But if being pre-op is an actual problem, something that impairs their life, something that is about removing an active source of discomfort rather than chasing after happiness, SRS does indeed seem to solve those feelings of pain, and is therefore probably a good decision.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 17, 2014, 05:41:42 PMNot that anecdotes prove much, but it'd certainly have shown that your therapists + doctors were lying.

That's a worry of mine.  Despite taking all the usual precautions - therapy, slow start with hormones, taking it one step at a time - I'm a touch worried that those I'm trusting to guide me are influenced a little too much by their own need to financially sustain their practices, and will thus push their services in some cases when not needed or appropriate.  And especially in the transgender world where healthcare providers are scarce and many patients are desperate for help; a lot of easy 'marks'.

A worry, I might add, that is typically proven to be false!  Those I've had contact with in practices associated with transgender issues have been flawlessly caring, dedicated and reliable.  But I'm sure there are less reputable providers out there.  Easy solution - get a second (or third) opinion, which is my plan when I start to take irreversible surgical steps.

Quote from: antonia on April 19, 2014, 09:26:24 AMIf you go in expecting the surgery to change how the world treats you and magically make you happy ever after then most likely you are going to be very disappointed.

Wonderfully said.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 17, 2014, 09:28:53 PM
Roxanne : I did try to be very clear that I think everyone has a right to make these decisions for themselves, even if they screw it up. As for treating people with regrets as enemies of the community, that's cruel and unfair. I keep hoping that if we could, as a community, accept that sometimes trans people will make mistakes just like cis people, we could move past this divisiveness in which people with regrets are driven into the closet/harassed/deleted from the discussion.

My point was actually that I believe in informed consent *even if* someone regrets it afterward, and that I hate to see post-op regrets trotted out (as they so often are) as a weapon against the idea of IC. That's not fair to either the people who do regret it or those who will be gatekept even harder as a result...

Again, to be clear, I'm also 100% on board with allowing someone like you to get a phalloplasty, no questions asked and no roadblocks. Not that it's my job to allow or deny, thank goodness, but I mean that I don't think the system should be set up so that most doctors can deny you, as they now did. Bad enough that you underwent one surgery you regretted; it's a thousand times worse to then force you to live without correcting that mistake. In fact, if it's not too presumptuous, allow me to say I admire you - you realized GRS was a mistake, and set out to correct it, without blaming everyone around you and claiming there should have been more gatekeeping and whatnot. I see absolutely no reason why that should make your story an unwelcome one, although I realize that it often *does* work out that way.

I'm glad you found a surgeon willing to try to reverse the choice for you, and I wish you luck with the second try. The first failure had to be heartbreaking.

Thanks. And yeah I have no reason to blame my doctors or therapist or anyone else involved. It was my personal choice and yeah in retrospect it was a bad choice - and sure there was some degree of conformity pressure (and other things that I need not necessarily elaborate), but again at the end it was my choice. I just want doctors to try to help me fix it as best they can.

I also think it isn't fair at all because come on, I know what both sets of parts are like and I know which ones I prefer on *my* body. No matter whether one favors either gatekeeping or informed consent this should be a slam dunk mentally. But apparently it isn't.

And yeah of course it was / has been heartbreaking. As soon as I found a doctor willing to do it (after so many NOs) a huge weight was lifted off of me. My depression and PTSD nearly went away. Sure the waiting sucked, but I knew I would be fixed up. And being young and healthy I never thought it would be a complete failure (partial failure, complications, maybe. Total loss? F no). Now this time? My depression and PTSD immediately returned. And the thought of living without a penis for the rest of my life gnaws at me all the time. If it fails again I think a third and fourth and fifth etc (ie several more) attempts are possible, though that's with the caveat that he is willing to take from a different graft site than the first two times (and if he's not and refers me elsewhere, will they refuse me?). And moreover, if two attempts fail and he makes me wait another year I don't think I'll be able to mentally handle it and just kill myself. :(

i find the only reason i would have any regret in having my GRS, is that i am starting to really like the idea of having my own biological child and its still possible to stop my hrt and try to get a sperm sample before i have GRS, but its not a guarantee that i can get one since i might be permanently sterile and it would just be a big waste of my time and emotions of having to detransition,

other than that i have hit a point were i just dont feel right having sex with a partner because it feels like my genitals are covered in a cast of flesh and its not working correctly, just feels wrong when i touch it and that just gets me right off the idea, thus my sex life is ruined until i have my GRS

also the idea of not worrying about my bits falling out or having the stress of worrying about my genitals showing would be so nice, to just put on some tights and not have to push prod and pull everything to make myself presentable would just be amazing

A vivid memory I have is, starting just over one year ago now, having the doubts about SRS being right for me, but being driven forward because it was the only way to improve the treatment I was receiving. When my wife said she would support me if I canceled (granted, she said it would be a problem if we lost money, and we were already past the last refund deadline) I was left with the point, "if I cancel, I'm back to that hell with providers, and there is reason to believe that it would get worse." I think my regret has a lot to do with the fact that even SRS wasn't enough for them - they didn't have a new hoop for me to jump through to prove that I was "trans enough," they just rested on "we don't think transition is right for you." So I did something irreversable to gain something that wasn't going to happen anyhow.

In other words, I did something to permanently end a problem in my life because they held the promise of having that relief and then denied it anyhow.

Sex has been a non-issue for four years. Once I started Spiro my drive vanished and I was delighted (this was deemed a problem by my HRT doctors, however.) Now, I have a high sex drive but no ability to get off. I am unable to have an orgasm that satisfies the desire.

Quote from: Agent_J on April 21, 2014, 01:15:14 PM
A vivid memory I have is, starting just over one year ago now, having the doubts about SRS being right for me, but being driven forward because it was the only way to improve the treatment I was receiving. When my wife said she would support me if I canceled (granted, she said it would be a problem if we lost money, and we were already past the last refund deadline) I was left with the point, "if I cancel, I'm back to that hell with providers, and there is reason to believe that it would get worse." I think my regret has a lot to do with the fact that even SRS wasn't enough for them - they didn't have a new hoop for me to jump through to prove that I was "trans enough," they just rested on "we don't think transition is right for you." So I did something irreversable to gain something that wasn't going to happen anyhow.

In other words, I did something to permanently end a problem in my life because they held the promise of having that relief and then denied it anyhow.

Sex has been a non-issue for four years. Once I started Spiro my drive vanished and I was delighted (this was deemed a problem by my HRT doctors, however.) Now, I have a high sex drive but no ability to get off. I am unable to have an orgasm that satisfies the desire.

so are you saying that you can't get the full on orgasm because the surgery killed to many nerves that dulled your sensations in your genital area's? or is it a genital dysphoria problem?

were you orgasmic through "alternative" methods before you had srs? was it just a botched surgery?

i ask this because right now i can't get off because it is a dysphoria problem and not a sensation issue

never regret in everything i've done with my face, my body & my genital ... i am VERY happy as a woman from head to toes , very confident when i go to the beach wearing bikinis ..

:-*

Quote from: Madison (kiara jamie) on April 21, 2014, 08:26:52 PM
so are you saying that you can't get the full on orgasm because the surgery killed to many nerves that dulled your sensations in your genital area's? or is it a genital dysphoria problem?

were you orgasmic through "alternative" methods before you had srs? was it just a botched surgery?

i ask this because right now i can't get off because it is a dysphoria problem and not a sensation issue

I'm not sure what you mean by "alternative." I had no problem getting off when I wanted to before SRS. Spiro eliminated my libido but not my ability to attain orgasm.

I was totally numb for the first 8 months after SRS. I have regained feeling since then, but it's limited. I am able to experience stimulation arousal and attain some sort of orgasm (I get the hyper-sensitive clit and arousal vanishing abruptly) but there is no pleasurable aspect to it. It's like I suddenly go from working up to it and then into the post-orgasm phase.

Quote from: Agent_J on April 22, 2014, 07:36:54 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "alternative." I had no problem getting off when I wanted to before SRS. Spiro eliminated my libido but not my ability to attain orgasm.

I was totally numb for the first 8 months after SRS. I have regained feeling since then, but it's limited. I am able to experience stimulation arousal and attain some sort of orgasm (I get the hyper-sensitive clit and arousal vanishing abruptly) but there is no pleasurable aspect to it. It's like I suddenly go from working up to it and then into the post-orgasm phase.

i have had those mini orgasms before and im pre op, i have always found it was just me not having my head in the right place, like i wasn't fully into it with my mind and body in sync, having a good orgasm requires you to be fully engaged with physically and psychologically, could your inability to have a pleasurable orgasm be a result of not being psychologically stimulated correctly or sufficiently?

I doubt it. I takes an incredible focus on all aspects of stimulation to get that much. If my mind isn't in it then I can't even get those meager results.

What really amazes me...are the stories about MTF regrets 5, 10 sometimes even 20 years post SRS....
I personally knew/know some MTF who regret having had SRS after years, decades even.

Denial all these years? An ID that seems to be  fluid or dynamic?

Only one MTFTM I personally know is completely honest about it; he says he regrets SRS because he actually found out he feels like a man.

 POR= post op regret.
       WPATH SOC suggests POR is virtually non existent. But they have not done any research on POR.    Surf the web on POR or sex change regret if you'd like.
  Also it is physically impossible for a MTF TG to have a female brain unless born intersex.
   There are some small  differences  in a male brain and that of a MTF TG.
      A conflict can arise in the PO MTF   owing to the fact of the loss of T and penis.   
Some people can deal with this much better than others.      a cause of POR.
    The SOC is based on interviews of TGs not research
WPATH states the best treatment for Gender Dysphoria is hormones and SRS,     
       many gender therapists believe this is so.
IMO it may be  the best treatment for some but not for all.
    If a TG has some reservations about transitioning or SRS instead of gatekeeping the therapist will either push the person to tow the party line to transition  or will not want anything to do with you.   This pushing or promoting SRS  can and does cause POR .
        You almost never hear therapists or  anyone saying anything negative about transitioning.    Because there are no negatives??? really. TG people can handle the truth
            Also due to the somewhat  dysfunctionality of SRS,  crappy orgasms, no  getting wet when aroused. ( a  brain function ), mindless wet mucus all the time ,dry orgasms or none at all.  This can also cause POR.

Or you could just miss being a guy.  :(
 

In my case, I tend to agree that progress toward transition and SRS were the 'party line.' I had two psychologists during transition: one at the public gender center who I saw every three months and one general practitioner who I saw weekly.

At the gender center, I had come there expressing my desire to transition and have surgery. While my sessions with the psychologist there made inquiries to evaluate whether I could be diagnosed with GID, there seemed to be no real critical evaluation whether transition and surgery were the best alternative. Since I was asking for surgery, the process was more about determining if I was a candidate to proceed to hormones and then to surgery.

My general psychologist, however, was very critical of the gender center's approach. I did not begin seeing her until after I started hormones and after my marriage had fallen apart because of transition (although we had originally thought we could make it work). In her opinion, there should have been much more critical inquiries into alternatives for the future instead of automatically putting me on the transition/surgery assembly line. Even before surgery, I had regrets for transitioning because of the consequences that had resulted. My psychologist believed that a lot of those consequence-based regrets could have been minimized if I had gone into the process more critically and had together with my partner had more thoroughly explored the potential consequences.

In the vacuum of my own identity, I do not regret transitioning or surgery. However, we do not live in a vacuum and have to interact with the world. I do have deep regrets about the consquences and wish that I had explored or at least more critically evaluated the alternatives. I try to fool myself into believing that maybe I could have centered therapy on dealing with gender identity issues without transitioning, although realistically I must confess that that approach would probably have failed. The regrets remain, however, because those alternatives were never really considered or explored.

In summary, I do not regret transitioning or SRS when looking toward the future and what is best for me, but I do have regrets when looking toward the past and the consequences that it had and those regrets could have been minimized if my process toward transition was more critical.

that is very interesting river, im currently at a crossroad right now and i have tried my best to make my transition as positive and well timed as possible, i want to start living full time but should wait about 7-9 months until my new business is started, it will put me in a better place financially and reduce the fallout of having to come out to people that i have to work with for the next 7 months, i know i would definitely regret going fulltime before the right time,

the only regret i have had so far is not banking my sperm when i had the chance, since im gonna be a lesbian, i would have been able to have my own genetic child but due to my tunnel vision towards getting hrt, and pre-hrt i didn't want children since i was so miserable, now i have 2 decisions, i could detransition back into hell and hope that i will regain my sperm count to get a couple samples, or just accept that i would have to adopt, i don't know for sure but i think once i find the partner of my dreams i will look back and wish i had gone through the hell of detransition even if it didn't work just to say to myself that i did the best i could have for my future child,

Quote from: River on April 28, 2014, 07:29:02 PM

At the gender center, I had come there expressing my desire to transition and have surgery. While my sessions with the psychologist there made inquiries to evaluate whether I could be diagnosed with GID, there seemed to be no real critical evaluation whether transition and surgery were the best alternative. Since I was asking for surgery, the process was more about determining if I was a candidate to proceed to hormones and then to surgery.

Actually, I think this is the way it ought to go. A professional has no idea whether transition or SRS will help me. I'm really the only one who knows that, right? The clinician's job is to make sure I'm stable and knowledgeable enough to make an informed and well-thought-out decision.

Well, had phalloplasty attempted, again.

Last time = left latissimus dorsi flap, failed because of small artery / artery blood clot.

This time = right latissimus dorsi flap, surgery aborted because artery is also very small. Flap put back. Ie I'm not missing any skin/fat/muscle on my right side like I am on my left side.

Surgeon says we can do abdominal flap (HELL NO) OR anterolateral thigh flap (probably what I want to do) OR radial forearm free flap (considering).

ALT (thigh) flap does not require microsurgery on blood vessels and should have good sensation so I'm leaning towards it, in case I have small or Y shaped or redundant arteries in my forearm too, just like I do in my side. I'm pissed as hell surgery was aborted or even attempted though when we should have just done the ALT flap instead. Now I have to wait. Again. Tried to get a date for surgery. No dice. Supposed to be told within two weeks when Miro can line up schedule of his team. Best case, very late July or early August. I'm sure he won't tell me, but one of his assistants is nice and I will email him in 2 1/2 weeks if I don't hear back otherwise. He (assistant - Borko) said I could ask him.

F F F..... not knowing when makes it feel like this will never happen.

Madison - I have some regrets, but I also think that I might not be here if I hadn't fully transitioned. Lately I have been struggling with the problem of finding a lesbian woman who is accepting of the whole package that is me. Seems like 99.9% of lesbian women are okay with me until I tell them my story (I'm many years post-op and they never can tell that I was ever anything other than female). After they know, they turn tail and run, never to be heard from again. That might not phase me so much if it weren't the theme of my life. My own parents have done that to me all my life. Anyway, regret... I guess it's regret, but it's more like I just wish I could have been a normal person, one way or the other, so that I didn't have to live with this black cloud over my head the rest of my life. My friends have said, "Just don't tell them. You are who you are NOW, not before." and I have tried to do that, but to me, that's just lying, and I'm not that kind of person. Other friends have said, "I'm sure the right girl is out there somewhere. You just haven't met her yet!" but I don't believe it. If she's out there, then I was born a girl. This has actually been quite depressing for me lately, and a large part of why I'm here at this site (for support, nothing more). My "regret" is that I gave up looking "normal" to the rest of the world, when I could have been with a great woman and been happy in love, and now I think that will never happen. But I have to let it go, because other than that I am extremely happy!

Quote from: AnnahM on June 01, 2014, 10:40:55 PM
Madison - I have some regrets, but I also think that I might not be here if I hadn't fully transitioned. Lately I have been struggling with the problem of finding a lesbian woman who is accepting of the whole package that is me. Seems like 99.9% of lesbian women are okay with me until I tell them my story (I'm many years post-op and they never can tell that I was ever anything other than female). After they know, they turn tail and run, never to be heard from again. That might not phase me so much if it weren't the theme of my life. My own parents have done that to me all my life. Anyway, regret... I guess it's regret, but it's more like I just wish I could have been a normal person, one way or the other, so that I didn't have to live with this black cloud over my head the rest of my life. My friends have said, "Just don't tell them. You are who you are NOW, not before." and I have tried to do that, but to me, that's just lying, and I'm not that kind of person. Other friends have said, "I'm sure the right girl is out there somewhere. You just haven't met her yet!" but I don't believe it. If she's out there, then I was born a girl. This has actually been quite depressing for me lately, and a large part of why I'm here at this site (for support, nothing more). My "regret" is that I gave up looking "normal" to the rest of the world, when I could have been with a great woman and been happy in love, and now I think that will never happen. But I have to let it go, because other than that I am extremely happy!

Dont get discouraged they are women out there who will date trans women. It really depends on the woman though. I know they are some that won't but they are those that are at least willing to date a trans woman. The reason they might be running is they may be feeling lied to if they are not told earlier in the relationship.

Quote from: Heather on June 01, 2014, 10:59:25 PM
... they may be feeling lied to if they are not told earlier in the relationship.

I would think that, too, if only there were a "relationship" with any of them. I think the problem has actually been the opposite - I told them too soon, when they had no feelings and no sense of loss by walking away.

Quote from: Vicky on March 18, 2014, 01:40:49 AM
Between hours 24 to 36 post op, I had one terrible ton of regret, but it was in relation to the pain

LOL!!! I agree.  I had the same thing about the pain.  I had an excruciating amount of pain but I was already happy with the results (I put a mirror between my legs after I woke up lol). 

I think most people that tend to regret this surgery are ones that always doing it for the wrong reasons.  Mostly sexuality and a transsexual's issues are primarily about Gender not sex.  This seems to get lost so much in this LGBT crap that we are unfortunately attached to recently.  During my transition years Transsexuals wanted to be far away from the LGB crowd because our issues differed greatly.

Over the decades I've lost good friends that did the SRS and regretted because they hadn't received the proper psychological care that is required for this life changing event.  I wished more Doctor's these days adhered to the Harry Benjamin Dysphoria Guidelines,  all I see are these surgeons performing these surgeries for money, nothing else.  No care for the patient or their mental health.  It's no wonder we see suicide rates and regrets.

Giving up the love of my life... or more accurately, her walking away from me. That, and my son not having a father in his life. Granted, I was in his life (might have been dead were it not for transition) and he is thankful for that. At 23 he has told me some of the pain he went through but also says that he loves me no matter what and is thankful I'm still alive and part of his life. So that's a huge win for all of us.

I also regret the fact that now I have to explain my life story to every person I date that looks like a possible serious relationship. It most often drives them away. So yeah, there's that. Sometimes I feel like I traded one form of being trapped for another one. But whatever, thankfully I love being alone.

Quote from: GoneGrl on June 04, 2014, 07:15:11 PM
I wished more Doctor's these days adhered to the Harry Benjamin Dysphoria Guidelines,  all I see are these surgeons performing these surgeries for money, nothing else.  No care for the patient or their mental health.  It's no wonder we see suicide rates and regrets.

It is called "Informed Consent" and it is the "in thing" these days. I expect to see a lot more "regretters" over the coming years.

Quote from: GoneGrl on June 04, 2014, 07:15:11 PM
Over the decades I've lost good friends that did the SRS and regretted because they hadn't received the proper psychological care that is required for this life changing event.  I wished more Doctor's these days adhered to the Harry Benjamin Dysphoria Guidelines,  all I see are these surgeons performing these surgeries for money, nothing else.  No care for the patient or their mental health.  It's no wonder we see suicide rates and regrets.

Can we at least refer to them as the WPATH Standards of Care? They've evolved a little since old Harry's day..

Quote from: ytxwmb on June 05, 2014, 04:39:53 AM
It is called "Informed Consent" and it is the "in thing" these days. I expect to see a lot more "regretters" over the coming years.

Yeah, so true.. And I can see it backfiring badly too.

Quote from: kelly_aus on June 05, 2014, 04:51:18 AM
Yeah, so true.. And I can see it backfiring badly too.

I would worry about it less if "informed consent" really was informed consent AFTER a diagnosis rather than the "Diagnosis for sale" that it seems to be in many places.

correct me if I'm wrong, but the informed consent model still only applies to HRT?

The application for surgery seems more dependent on the doctor than the laws, I am in Los Angeles (a city well accustomed to informed consent) and I still have to obtain letters to have surgery with Brassard

Speaking of which, my final interview with my gender therapist's colleague is tomorrow! :D

Quote from: ytxwmb on June 05, 2014, 04:39:53 AM
It is called "Informed Consent" and it is the "in thing" these days. I expect to see a lot more "regretters" over the coming years.

I think that most of the regretters are going to be those that did not spend one day living as a woman before having surgery. The surgery doesn't make you a woman it supposed to help you be more comfortable with your body. I can't stress how bad a idea informed consent is for surgery.

Quote from: Jennygirl on June 05, 2014, 05:07:50 AM
correct me if I'm wrong, but the informed consent model still only applies to HRT?

The application for surgery seems more dependent on the doctor than the laws, I am in Los Angeles (a city well accustomed to informed consent) and I still have to obtain letters to have surgery with Brassard

Speaking of which, my final interview with my gender therapist's colleague is tomorrow! :D

You are not wrong. Informed consent, in any place I've seen it, is for HRT and sometimes top surgery, NOT SRS..

I have seen posts on this forum telling others where to go to get (a.k.a. buy) letters for SRS. It may not be "informed consent" as intended by the definition of the phrase, but it is the same process as paying for a diagnosis.

I have even seen lists of therapists in the USA who will give you a letter for SRS for $xxx after talking to you over the phone. Would you like me to post some links?

Quote from: ytxwmb on June 05, 2014, 01:15:10 PM
I have seen posts on this forum telling others where to go to get (a.k.a. buy) letters for SRS. It may not be "informed consent" as intended by the definition of the phrase, but it is the same process as paying for a diagnosis.

I have even seen lists of therapists in the USA who will give you a letter for SRS for $xxx after talking to you over the phone. Would you like me to post some links?

That's scary.  I smell lawsuits from that.  My therapist covered her ass thoroughly before I got mine.

Quote from: Heather on June 05, 2014, 12:44:51 PM
I think that most of the regretters are going to be those that did not spend one day living as a woman before having surgery. The surgery doesn't make you a woman it supposed to help you be more comfortable with your body. I can't stress how bad a idea informed consent is for surgery.

I lived every day as a woman for a year and a half before surgery. Part time for another year before that.

And 7 years later, still live as a woman.

And yes I was stupid for doing so, I admit it. It didn't make me a woman, I just had a hard recovery after FFS and really wanted breast implants done. I somehow upsold myself on doing SRS at the same time. Such a fool.

I just hope Miro can fix it with a graft from my leg or arm this time :(

Quote from: kelly_aus on June 05, 2014, 04:51:18 AM
Can we at least refer to them as the WPATH Standards of Care? They've evolved a little since old Harry's day..

Yeah, so true.. And I can see it backfiring badly too.

Yeah, that's I had my SRS 22 years ago to be exact (anniversary next week) so I'm an oldie that refers to the older terms lol.  During my time my doctor required two independent psychiatrist letters (one witnessing my pre-op transition for 2 years), a letter from my Endocrinologist and a print out of your Prescriptions (usually given to you by a PCP or Endo doc).


A friend of mine in NYC went to Meltzer without any Letters.  She has a plethora of Mental health issues and noticeable physical ailments all over her legs (they actually look like they are rotting) due to her aggressive AIDS status.  He still worked on her.

I think regret is a complex thing and I looked at some regret stuff including this thread just to get my head in order before surgery I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I wish anyone who does have regret good luck in sorting things out.

I lived 6 yrs ft before surgery making sure of everything I also said to my self if I don't pass or cant get my voice right or im not happy with any bit of transtion go back to being male dont do it.


Xx

It hurt me to read what you are going through, Roxanne. I really hope everything will work out for you and you'll be satisfied with the results, good luck!

Quote from: crowcrow223 on June 08, 2014, 04:12:32 AM
It hurt me to read what you are going through, Roxanne. I really hope everything will work out for you and you'll be satisfied with the results, good luck!

Thanks.

Still having a hard go at it and it's getting worse. Worried Miro and Co will not get me any kind of reasonable near future date and the thought of waiting 6 months or a year is dreadful. And it's not in the kid waiting for Christmas sense at all. At this point after 1 failure and 1 aborted surgery as long as the third attempt is in the abstract (ie not done) it's going to feel like it's never going to be done. It will fail too. Or just never happen.

Or that Miro and Co will just blow me off and not respond or string me along.

I wish he tried to use the flap from my side at this point even though he said 90% chance of failure. Don't really care that it would have left me with a massive scar I already have one on my left side and my right side is numb now. Also was shocked back in October last year when told I could have died during my first surgery. Well that was my first reaction. Subsequent and current thought has been I wish I had. Thinking about suicide a lot but of course still have the carrot of hope dangled in front of me.

I can relate a lot to how you feeling, and the only thing I can really say is that it's all about the right timing, certain things are meant to happen at a certain time. We just gotta be patient. I really hope though, that they will schedule sth really soon for you! Keep it strong!

Quote from: crowcrow223 on June 09, 2014, 04:05:36 AM
I can relate a lot to how you feeling, and the only thing I can really say is that it's all about the right timing, certain things are meant to happen at a certain time. We just gotta be patient. I really hope though, that they will schedule sth really soon for you! Keep it strong!

I've been home just under 2 weeks after surgery and it feels like a lifetime. Trying not to be a drama queen / exaggerate but it really does. Miro said they would tell me in 2 weeks but of course nothing. Not expecting anything either. Will email one of his assistants Monday night I think (that would be 2 1/2 weeks because they will get it Tues morning).

I keep having both dreams and thoughts of falling off buildings. If this had been the surgery where they said "sorry, we've tried everything, there's nothing we can do" I would have done it already.

Have You thought of counseling in-between planning and having surgeries?

I do have a psychotherapist. I haven't seen her yet since surgery though. It only helps to a small extent though.

And I've tried several anti depressants and they don't work. They just cause horrible side effects. That and perhaps irrational thought but the problem isn't the mind, it's the mind-body mismatch and drugs can't fix that.

I never progressed to the surgery, but I can tell you why I had my regrets about transitioning and the signs.

The biggest reason why I became a regret case is because I wasn't honest about myself about why I was transitioning in the first place. I felt a lot of dysphoria over being seen as male, but it's not because I hate my male body. It was because I thought everyone was thinking that I was a "->-bleeped-<-" and that I wasn't a real man. But I repressed that because I didn't want to face those feelings of inadequacy as a male.

Another sign I should have seen was that I hated the changes from HRT, I hated the breasts, I hated the hair loss, I hated the shrinkage. I hated the emotional changes. I kept telling myself "you have to adjust." I wanted to be seen as female so I could be safe, not because I wanted a female body.

I was saving for SRS, because I believed it would make me a "full" woman. I liked having my penis, and I liked using it, I just believed SRS was the "next logical step." If I had gone forward with it, I'd be an even huger regret case.

I guess the question to ask is why you want SRS. If it's to be "normal" there's a big red flag there. If it's because you really dislike your penis (as I have come to dislike the breasts from HRT) and feel that it doesn't belong, then it is probably the right decision. I want to have the breasts I grew removed and I know this, unlike the transition, is the right choice. I know the difference between my desire for SRS and breast removal because with breasts I genuinely hate them. I don't always feel abnormal for having boobs, they felt alien from the moment they began growing. My penis always felt natural and I had no issues with it.

so the one thing i have been thinking about lately is about my current genitalia, personally before i started transition i wasn't to bothered by having my penis, it didn't cause me great dysphoria, and it really wasn't that big of an issue for me, it hasn't been until i started transitioning and having to deal with hiding it that it has become a problem, everytime i try to wear something that i think would look cute on me, i am always worried about if i would be able to hide it, and usually when i put underwear on i curse at it for being so friggin annoying and just being there, i think i have had my fair share of irritation from it and at this point it really hasn't done anything positive in my life with maybe making it easier to pee if i was to get stranded away from a toilet, right now even before my 1 year RLE, i feel i could get my grs and not have any regrets but i feel like i might just be overlooking something for right now and i do need a year of constant misery from it being there to cement the choice of grs in my mind

Madison, it's a very serious decision so you might benefit from seeing a therapist who would help you decide.

DeanH, how long ago did you transition from male to female?

I started a part time social transition at age 16 (2005) and started the full time and HRT process at age 18 (2007). I started detransitioning in 2011 but I wasn't generally seen as male again until late 2012.

Quote from: LordKAT on June 05, 2014, 01:00:55 PM

You are not wrong. Informed consent, in any place I've seen it, is for HRT and sometimes top surgery, NOT SRS..

I had one Informed Consent HRT provider, and my do people want to pin my SRS regret on that. I saw her after more than 3 years of dealing with endocrinologists and a therapist who interpreted the WPATH SOC in the most strict way they could (e.g. requiring a year of therapy, HRT letter, and RLE to get HRT!) The main plus to that IC provider was that she was *not* one for changing widely changing my Estradiol dose every quarter (which did seriously bad things to me mentally!)

My gender therapist was extremely exacting in ensuring I had the full year of RLE that the SOC "requires" (in her interpretation of it) by not even accepting my request for a letter to be written until 1 full year since my first appointment after transition at work had passed (and it would take another 6 months for her to write the letter, which meant my RLE before SRS was 25 months due to unrelated work and academic restrictions I had.)

A major problem is that many therapists and HRT doctors do not see SRS as an optional part of transition. I went into SRS with doubts; in the last four weeks before surgery I debated canceling. Only the fact that I would be denied HRT from the providers in my area and would lose support from gender therapists (they would have encouraged me to detransition since I declined SRS) and a lack of a viable Plan B pushed me to continue in spite of the doubts - I saw life getting worse for me if I canceled and took the doubtful unknown of SRS instead.

A few weeks ago I was finally able to have an orgasm, and a new round of regret emotions hit as it was a massive disappointment; so much so that I sobbed in emotional agony immediately after the orgasm. I know now that this isn't unexpected, but my gender therapist and HRT doctors had given me a hard sell on SRS that included it invariably being far better (and not taking over a year to access,) etc., that I reasonably came to have expectations that I didn't know were unreasonable. I was dealing with it every 3-4 weeks from my gender therapist and every 1-4 months from my HRT doctors (the HRT docs would not allow me onto a longer schedule so long as I had not yet had SRS, and they mandated that I be in therapy on that schedule until I had SRS or they would cease prescribing HRT to me.)

Quote from: Agent_J on June 17, 2014, 04:11:38 PMI went into SRS with doubts; in the last four weeks before surgery I debated canceling. Only the fact that I would be denied HRT from the providers in my area and would lose support from gender therapists (they would have encouraged me to detransition since I declined SRS) and a lack of a viable Plan B pushed me to continue in spite of the doubts . . .

. . . my gender therapist and HRT doctors had given me a hard sell on SRS . . .

A very interesting and detailed post.  I appreciate you taking the time to share.

Do you mind if I ask whether you aired these doubts and concerns to the gender therapists or surgeons at any point before SRS, and if so, what was their reaction?

Also, did you ever seek a second opinion from an independent therapist (one outside your immediate chain of treatment) before proceeding with the surgery?  Do you think it would have even helped if you had done so?

I don't want to put myself in your shoes and second-guess your decisions, but the level of discomfort you had with the idea of SRS before you underwent the procedure looks like a giant red flag, and one which would have warranted taking a step back and reevaluating.  The fact that nobody in your chain of care picked up on this discomfort is worrying, to say the least.  Again, not criticizing your choices at all; just trying my hardest to avoid regretting my own decisions, and learning from those who have gone before is extremely useful when figuring out where my own healthcare professionals are coming from.

Also, what kind of follow-up have you had with these therapists and the surgeon?  Have they checked in to ascertain your level of satisfaction and how well you're coping, and if so, have they shown any level of interest in changing the way they themselves go about pushing transitioners through the system based upon your feedback?

I never openly stated anything about my feelings as the slightest hints of that early on lead to very negative reactions making it clear I had to toe the line or lose access to any and all parts of transition.

Unfortunately, I was in an area where there weren't other options. When I moved to the region in 2008 there were two known gender therapists, both of whom used the same endo, and two known endos who would prescribe. I decided against trying the other gender therapist when a friend had even worse experiences - she was transitioned at work for more than a year and in therapy for far longer with that one before she was able to get her HRT letter (the prescribing endos in the area then strictly required the HRT letter - they wanted RLE in addition, but they would not prescribe even if one had been FT for years without the letter.)

I saw both endos in the course of my transition and had serious problems with each. The first tried to convince me that the lack of physical results from an extremely low dose of Estradiol (less than the minimum of the guideline suggests) and no anti-androgen proved that I was one of the people for whom HRT would never be effective. The second was constantly worried that I'd have a DVT and looked for results that supported her bias (she dismissed two lab results as "defective" in favor of the one that fit her view that the dose was too high for me, seriously reduced my dose, and then, when the subsequent labs showed that my levels were extremely low, became critical of me, asserting that I wasn't taking the doses before the labs, etc.)

I began seeing a Nurse Practitioner at Planned Parenthood after that (and the above represents nearly 4 years of navigating transition.) She did Informed Consent and I was able to get on reasonable doses at long last. The only negative experience I had with her was after SRS when she required that my E dose be reduced by 25-50% in addition to ending Spiro, and refused to consider ever adjusting it higher than that. After months of feeling miserable I made the 800 mile round trip to a provider in another state who was willing to work with me on dose and, when they ran my labs to determine where I was already, found that my serum Estradiol was lower than the lab was capable of detecting (less than 11.8 pg/mL.)

After SRS I learned of another provider, a GP, in my area who would prescribe HRT. I also learned that my gender therapist had referred people to him for years. However, when I had trouble with the endo to whom she referred me and I requested that she refer me to someone else she directly refused, stating that only that endo was capable of supervising HRT. The way I got to the other endo was to use my GP to get a referral and not let my therapist know that I had changed doctors (that was also the only lie I directly told for my surgery letter - if she knew that my HRT was not being prescribed by the first endo she would have refused to write my letter.) There were a few other options I learned about in the region after I had SRS - suddenly, a lot of people I'd known for years in the local trans community were saying "why didn't you just go to X" but they had not responded when I directly asked for other providers before I had SRS.

At the point that I was asking for letters and scheduling with Dr. Brassard I had so deeply and for so long buried those doubts in my psyche that I no longer realized I had them. I really don't feel there is any blame that Dr. Brassard does or should shoulder - by the time I saw him I was so shell-shocked from dealing with a horrible system that there wasn't anything he could have done to make me trust him with discussing it, and there certainly wasn't anything about the situation where I lived that he was capable of changing.

I have not talked to any of them since SRS. I truly don't believe it would be productive; I don't believe they'd be willing to change their bias that SRS is a mandatory part of transition and all it would accomplish is making transition even more difficult for others in my area.

I would like to thank everyone for their experiences and information.  What I am particularly confused about is the post about where it seems that the more successful GRS is about gender over sexuality. To this I am a bit confused and would like a bit of clarification, as to me they blend together.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Removed personal information.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I initially stated I plan to get GRS early next year if possible. I will tell you my expectations.
(+) Capacity to still orgasm after surgery
(+) Aesthetically pleasing to me (from what I've seen from Brassard) this seems very doable.
(+) Depth of at least 5.5" after healing process is done. (At this point in HRT, erect I am probably 4.5-5" with small to average girth) [sorry quick estimate]

I think those are very reasonable expectations. No?  I want this surgery so that I can feel a man inside of me, stop having to tuck, and to feel complete as a woman. I look at my penis now and my brain somewhat recognizes it as a penis, but not really. It's really hard to explain. Just that yes it is indeed a penis, but it doesn't seem right in that location of my body and that something else should be there instead, a vagina.

I feel I will be a very successful patient for GRS. I have maybe a 5% or so doubt, just because I've recently been reading negative effects and outcomes to get a realistic view of what to expect.  I plan to follow my aftercare very religiously, and hopefully I will have found a OB/GYN by that point as I think it will be most helpful to have a local physician helping me along with this. Normally I do not have a PCP, because I am very capable of self diagnosis and remedy.  I expect there to be a weird pain when my cath is removed, and that I may have to stay a day or two longer in the hospital if something goes wrong (but it won't). I expect dilation to be uncomfortable, or at least to begin with and possibly for 3-6mo afterwards.  I expect numbness may stay in that area for upwards of a year.  Acknowledging all of this I would still go through with the surgery.

~~So, what do you think? Success? Disaster waiting to happen? Reason = gender? Reason = sexuality?~~
If I had to answer it would be: Yes, No, Yes, Yes (why do gender and sexuality reasons have to be different?)

The way I see it is that only you can say if it is or isn't right for you. I suspect having gone through FFS will help you have a more realistic view. I will note that orgasm is a variable one. I'm struggling right now because I was lead to believe that I would be able to orgasm within 6 months and that there was no way they would be lesser than what I experienced before SRS. Neither has proven to be the case - I was only able to orgasm after a year and they are very disappointing to me, though I do not doubt a lot of that is frustration with my very high sex drive (I need to get off twice per day, just like before I started HRT.)

I had wanted to do FFS and BA before I had SRS [if I ever did.] My therapist and endos were adamantly opposed to me having either FFS or BA at all. I went into SRS believing that regret was likely but lacking any good other way out of that bad situation, and having been heavily sold on unrealistic results by my therapist and endos: a case that isn't exactly suggestive of a good outcome.

Next week I have to have a physical that will include gyn exam. I'm terrified of just the idea of such an examination and expect to have to take the day off of work because I will be that mentally hurt due to the exam.

Agent J,
I totally agree with you that only I can diagnose myself properly and know if something is right for me. I am opting for GRS before FFS because in all honesty I really don't get misgendered and at this time I feel like I have the resources and ability to take off 2-3mo. However I do like input because some angle might have eluded me. And to me, being well informed is looking at all angles/aspects of a situation.
Lucky me therapist and endo have not pressured me and I'm the one pushing through. In all honesty my endo thinks i should also do FFS first. But i rejected that notion. And orgams have gone from 4-5x a day to only about once a week needing release.
I wish you well on your GYN visit. But why are you aprehensive about it? Sorry, in medical field so surgeries and dr visits no longer cause me anxiety, i just overpower it with happy thoughts ^-^

Quote from: Jennifer.Alexandria on June 20, 2014, 10:08:01 AM
Agent J,
I totally agree with you that only I can diagnose myself properly and know if something is right for me. I am opting for GRS before FFS because in all honesty I really don't get misgendered and at this time I feel like I have the resources and ability to take off 2-3mo. However I do like input because some angle might have eluded me. And to me, being well informed is looking at all angles/aspects of a situation.
Lucky me therapist and endo have not pressured me and I'm the one pushing through. In all honesty my endo thinks i should also do FFS first. But i rejected that notion. And orgams have gone from 4-5x a day to only about once a week needing release.
I wish you well on your GYN visit. But why are you aprehensive about it? Sorry, in medical field so surgeries and dr visits no longer cause me anxiety, i just overpower it with happy thoughts ^-^

I've never gone to a GYN unless you count going to McGinn seeing if she could still help me. Her touching me there was triggering. Same deal with Miro before the 1st surgery where he extended my urethra.

He still has not given me a date yet for 3rd surgery. Growing angry and sick of waiting. Going to send one more polite (albeit firm) email to his assistant Monday if I still haven't heard back then the gloves come off with the I've been quite patient, you've put me through 2 surgeries, 2 trips across the world, and still have nothing to show for it and you can't even get me in soon / give me a date?

So if I'm understanding the experience of most, basically it seems that most of the regrets are coming from people who were generally okay with what they had beforehand, but were looking to do it because of social expectations to do it, or just because the individual was seeking to look or feel more womanly, and the surgery didn't live up to their expectations. I still don't think I've seen any regrets posted from people whose former anatomy was a constant source of dysphoria, and something that actively bothered them.

Is that about right? Or did I miss something? Or am I oversimplifying it?

While what pushed me to it is different, I agree with your conclusion - I was generally happy with my body before SRS.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 20, 2014, 12:04:14 PM
So if I'm understanding the experience of most, basically it seems that most of the regrets are coming from people who were generally okay with what they had beforehand, but were looking to do it because of social expectations to do it, or just because the individual was seeking to look or feel more womanly, and the surgery didn't live up to their expectations. I still don't think I've seen any regrets posted from people whose former anatomy was a constant source of dysphoria, and something that actively bothered them.

Is that about right? Or did I miss something? Or am I oversimplifying it?

I was indifferent about my genitals before SRS. I also really had essentially no experience or understanding of (anatomically) female genitals before I had surgery either. Didn't really even think how much it would change things with respect to urination and cleanliness and so on.

God damn I want to die :(

Quote from: RoxanneN on June 20, 2014, 01:28:02 PM
God damn I want to die :(

Sorry, I didn't mean to trigger anything. I just feel like doubts are something that everyone probably has going into such a life-changing decision, so I'm just making an effort to learn every possible variable before going into it... weighing the pros from those who loved it and the cons from those who regret it.

I hope it's okay... I'm just a curious person who's very grateful that you're willing to open up about this.

I've read all of your posts about the struggles you've endured, and I'm really sorry that anyone has to go through that kind of struggle.

*hugs,* for what it's worth.

Alright, so it looks like I'm going in as a science experiment  :D

Dysphoria about penis: small to moderate (don't like looking at it if I don't have to.)
Sexuality of new vagina: moderate to large (of course I want to have sex with it, i'm not a eunich.)
Body Image: For the most part happy.
Peer Pressure: None
Still wanting to get SRS after reading all these posts: Definately

Sorry about those with bad experiences but I'm going to do as I've always done and hope for the best. Again sorry, but I'm more optimist than pessimist and mere force of will has allowed me to carry on the past 17 years.  Ah, the arrogance of youth ^_^

Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 20, 2014, 02:27:31 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to trigger anything. I just feel like doubts are something that everyone probably has going into such a life-changing decision, so I'm just making an effort to learn every possible variable before going into it... weighing the pros from those who loved it and the cons from those who regret it.

I hope it's okay... I'm just a curious person who's very grateful that you're willing to open up about this.

I've read all of your posts about the struggles you've endured, and I'm really sorry that anyone has to go through that kind of struggle.

*hugs,* for what it's worth.

You didn't trigger anything. I've felt this way for a long time. Every day it hurts.

*hugs, if you'll have a crying Amazon*

*hugs* *hugs* *some more hugs* Just because! Some of the most friendly people I know are built like Amazons.  Just please don't crush me  ;D

Quote from: Madison (kiara jamie) on April 20, 2014, 10:14:10 PM
i find the only reason i would have any regret in having my GRS, is that i am starting to really like the idea of having my own biological child and its still possible to stop my hrt and try to get a sperm sample before i have GRS, but its not a guarantee that i can get one since i might be permanently sterile and it would just be a big waste of my time and emotions of having to detransition,

I feel your pain, that's the only thing that is keeping me from starting HRT, even though my dyphoria is growing a lot lately, I don't have money to store my sperm, but I really want my biological cildren in the future, that's really one of the hardest decision I have to make...

If you want to, you can get eximined by a dotor and ask if you are already permanent sterile, if you aren't you might be able to detransition and get a sperm sample, I know of people who stopped HRT for 2 or 3 months and we're able to do so.

Quote from: Jennifer.Alexandria on June 20, 2014, 02:51:51 PM
*hugs* *hugs* *some more hugs* Just because! Some of the most friendly people I know are built like Amazons.  Just please don't crush me  ;D

*hugs*. Don't worry you'd hurt me now I'm still WIA.

About the orgams, I really don't understand how you can regret this, like really everybody knows about the complication, and even if you doctors didn't tell you about the complication, you could have just made a research yourself! This is only your fault, I hope you'll be able to change your mistake and live your life as you want to! But still, what did you was very immature.

Quote from: Emily29 on June 20, 2014, 03:00:57 PM
About the orgams, I really don't understand how you can regret this, like really everybody knows about the complication, and even if you doctors didn't tell you about the complication, you could have just made a research yourself! This is only your fault, I hope you'll be able to change your mistake and live your life as you want to! But still, what did you was very immature.

Please don't make blanket comments like this.  Some people don't have researching skills, or were lied and/or taken advantage of, or the data was not available or had limited availability at the time. This is just mean and hurtfull.

Quote from: Emily29 on June 20, 2014, 03:00:57 PM
About the orgams, I really don't understand how you can regret this, like really everybody knows about the complication, and even if you doctors didn't tell you about the complication, you could have just made a research yourself! This is only your fault, I hope you'll be able to change your mistake and live your life as you want to! But still, what did you was very immature.

For my part, it wasn't that I simply didn't know, it was that I had multiple professionals - medical and mental health - repeatedly, on a basis of roughly monthly, insisting to me that the risk of the complication was effectively non-existent with modern methods and asserting the information I had to the contrary was wrong and outdated (generally saying so in response to my attempt to have a frank discussion about the possibilities of SRS based on the information I had found.)

Still want to die. Don't have the means to do it at hand. Keep thinking of jumping from a high place though. Don't want to live in a world where this is my burden. Only hanging on for Miro's response.

No no no. Jumping's awefully messy. Plus you'ld want to hit terminal velocity I'm assuming. So then there's all that time where you'ld have to think about it. Could land wrong end up with just broken limbs. Definately jumping won't do  :police:

Just curious, but have you tried hypnosis? Small posability it may take.

Quote from: Jennifer.Alexandria on June 20, 2014, 07:14:02 PM
No no no. Jumping's awefully messy. Plus you'ld want to hit terminal velocity I'm assuming. So then there's all that time where you'ld have to think about it. Could land wrong end up with just broken limbs. Definately jumping won't do  :police:

Just curious, but have you tried hypnosis? Small posability it may take.

No I'm not very open to suggestion. Too book smart for my own good. Not sure what it would accomplish either?

Also absolutely do not want to take meds. Have been convinced at various times by docs "just try it out, you don't have to continue" or when in Serbia was given antidepressants after this last failed surgery and they just made me exhausted. And I mean wake up after 10 hours then fall back asleep 2 hours later. Not cool. Was p-ed at that.

The problem is the body, not the mind.

No regrets from any of the surgeries (I had BA and Orchi three years ago and SRS 6 months ago), all were a major positive step for me and finally I feel like I have my life somewhat sorted out. This past 6 months is the first time in many years where I haven't been suicidal or elf harmed at any point, I felt like I was getting pretty close to the last straw before my operation in January.

As others have said transition and surgeries don't fix everything for you, and I wouldn't say I don't have problems (I'm still bipolar) but I can definitely say I have no regrets. I had a huge problem with my prior anatomy (cried during the operation consult!) so this outcome isn't a huge surprise.

Sorry to be one of those gross positive, life affirming responses, I hate those people...

Quote from: RoxanneN on June 20, 2014, 07:29:02 PM
No I'm not very open to suggestion. Too book smart for my own good. Not sure what it would accomplish either?

Also absolutely do not want to take meds. Have been convinced at various times by docs "just try it out, you don't have to continue" or when in Serbia was given antidepressants after this last failed surgery and they just made me exhausted. And I mean wake up after 10 hours then fall back asleep 2 hours later. Not cool. Was p-ed at that.

The problem is the body, not the mind.

There's lots of different types though, some can be uppers? Most take about 6 weeks before they stop kicking the crap out of you too.

Sorry, I know I don't know you or your situation, just talking as somebody who has tried a lot of meds and had their fill of psychology.

Quote from: cruise4burgers on June 26, 2014, 10:36:53 AM
There's lots of different types though, some can be uppers? Most take about 6 weeks before they stop kicking the crap out of you too.

Sorry, I know I don't know you or your situation, just talking as somebody who has tried a lot of meds and had their fills of psychology.

Again the problem is the body, not the mind. The whole fact of even giving me meds is a f-ing insult. Fix my body don't break my brain.

I read your post about crying during your surgical consult. I certainly was neither happy nor sad during mine really (was more glad to get my BAS done and get transition over with) but I've cried. And cried. And cried. And cried about my genitals now. Choking up right now.

I didn't really feel much  during my pre/post surgery timeframe, but before I was devoted to fixing this.

After? It's there, and kinda ugly. If it stayed ugly/painful I might regret it, but I know it'll get prettier/less painful and I won't regret it.

Also, when I put my mind to it everything down there already feels really tingly/soft, like I can almost imagine what a man'll feel like down there - and it feels darn good. :)

Nothing wrong with positive stories, only when (as I have encountered in some spaces) there is hostility or prohibition on anything but positive stories about SRS and similar. It's the strangest thing in those spaces: one can struggle years after the fact with the loss of jobs, family, friends, and/or marriage and it's okay, but regret something like SRS and struggle with even the first few months or year afterwards and there's anger about it. I've been told "you might scare others from having SRS!"

I feel certain that I won't regret BA and FFS because I very much am uncomfortable with my body in ways that I seek to address with those procedures, so they're right for me and I need them. And I think that's a big part of the problem - the view that how can a trans woman not need the same treatments as others, etc.

Quote from: Agent_J on June 26, 2014, 01:38:15 PM
Nothing wrong with positive stories, only when (as I have encountered in some spaces) there is hostility or prohibition on anything but positive stories about SRS and similar. It's the strangest thing in those spaces: one can struggle years after the fact with the loss of jobs, family, friends, and/or marriage and it's okay, but regret something like SRS and struggle with even the first few months or year afterwards and there's anger about it. I've been told "you might scare others from having SRS!"

I feel certain that I won't regret BA and FFS because I very much am uncomfortable with my body in ways that I seek to address with those procedures, so they're right for me and I need them. And I think that's a big part of the problem - the view that how can a trans woman not need the same treatments as others, etc.

Need a like button.

I've tended to stay away from the trans* community for the most part because the infighting is ridiculous. I do understand the political motivation of wanting to censor viewpoints and I've been guilty of it recently (the trans/->-bleeped-<- debate) but I don't believe that's the way to move forward.

Quote from: RoxanneN on June 26, 2014, 12:20:55 PM
Again the problem is the body, not the mind. The whole fact of even giving me meds is a f-ing insult. Fix my body don't break my brain.

I read your post about crying during your surgical consult. I certainly was neither happy nor sad during mine really (was more glad to get my BAS done and get transition over with) but I've cried. And cried. And cried. And cried about my genitals now. Choking up right now.

Wasn't trying to insult you, I get that the body is the problem, just suggesting there are different tools to cope and that not all psychopharmacology is the same. (I.e they're not all just zombie makers).

Quote from: cruise4burgers on June 27, 2014, 09:21:50 PM
Wasn't trying to insult you, I get that the body is the problem, just suggesting there are different tools to cope and that not all psychopharmacology is the same. (I.e they're not all just zombie makers).

There is no coping. There is fixing the body. And if that fails more and I run out of autologous tissue to use (2 lats. Used. 2 thighs not used yet. 2 forearms not used yet. 2 calves not used yet) then there is an existence of misery or suicide. Granted, my existence is misery right now. And no meds are going to help. Doesn't matter if they are zombie makers or not but my quality of life is utter sht right now and always will be until I get that fixed. Every moment it's present in my mind.

Quote from: RoxanneN on June 27, 2014, 09:39:46 PM
There is fixing the body. 

Every moment it's present in my mind.

Thing is, we can't really separate the two.  You are experiencing the anguish over your body as mental pain, so it would make some sense to address it on that level, at least until you get the physical changes you want.

This doesn't have to be by medication or therapy either, and in some ways these will just reinforce your focus on the problem.  Maybe something which diverts your attention elsewhere would be more helpful; for example some form of meditation could bring a level of detachment and peace, or working to help others in some way.

Apologies if you've already tried these things.

Quote from: Chula on June 28, 2014, 06:45:58 AM
Thing is, we can't really separate the two.  You are experiencing the anguish over your body as mental pain, so it would make some sense to address it on that level, at least until you get the physical changes you want.

This doesn't have to be by medication or therapy either, and in some ways these will just reinforce your focus on the problem.  Maybe something which diverts your attention elsewhere would be more helpful; for example some form of meditation could bring a level of detachment and peace, or working to help others in some way.

Apologies if you've already tried these things.

Distractions help some. I have some hobbies. But I've found that these lead to a sense of "boiling over". Ie they work for awhile then I completely melt down with depression.

Well I'm *supposed* to hear something this week. I still feel like hell though and I know I won't hear anything and I'll have to bug them again. Only to be told Miro is out of town again or some other such nonsense. Really getting to the end.

I probably sound like a spoiled kid who can't wait to see her presents before Christmas. But every day is agony. Every time I go pee I think about this - and of course that's not the only time. Really do wish I just had the guts to end it. I'll admit I'm a successful person (career and education wise... and been with the same woman for 10 years) but I'd trade it all to have a penis again. The only maybe not is my wife and my pets and maybe some other body parts. I'd trade a foot or a finger for sure. Maybe even a leg. All my achievements mean nothing. I wonder if Dignitas would help me.