Susan's Place Transgender Resources

hi, as the title says, its seems that I am very jealous of looking at women, it seems to get so bad that I cant even leave the house and makes me feel very depressed. I don't know if this is normal mostly reason why I'm asking it, I just started therapy but have no transitioned yet so I have a long way to go but just like to know if its a common thing.

Yes it is, there is not a trans woman here at Susan's who hasn't had those very same human feelings, even sometimes about other trans women who have had remarkably successful transitions due to great looks and good genes. Welcome to our world hon!

I don't know if I would call it jealously as much as envy. Might be the same thing but I definitely feel more of an envy than jealousy.

thanks shantel, I didn't know if it was normal to be that jealous, usually I have to have a few beers to talk to other women since I get so jealous that I just want to be left alone when I'm out somewhere with friends.

Yep. I would call it envy, though. I've had days where I would walk around with my head down so I wouldn't have to look at all of those lululemon-clad girls who wander the campus I work at... they never get older, they're always 17-25 years old, damn their well upholstered butts! Anyways, I still feel the envy, but I so much love the female form that I can peer through the green-tinged haze and be in awe of the beauty that struts before me. God bless them and grant me a physique like that :)

Quote from: Lavinia on March 18, 2014, 10:33:52 AM
thanks shantel, I didn't know if it was normal to be that jealous, usually I have to have a few beers to talk to other women since I get so jealous that I just want to be left alone when I'm out somewhere with friends.

Discuss that with your counselor, it's something you can reign in. I have lots of cis female friends, some are very pretty and I admire them but manage to keep my hands and comments about that to myself lest I make them feel very uncomfortable. I always try and put the other person's feelings ahead of my own so we can remain friends.

Quote from: EllieM on March 18, 2014, 10:37:28 AM

Yep. I would call it envy, though. I've had days where I would walk around with my head down so I wouldn't have to look at all of those lululemon-clad girls who wander the campus I work at... they never get older, they're always 17-25 years old, damn their well upholstered butts! Anyways, I still feel the envy, but I so much love the female form that I can peer through the green-tinged haze and be in awe of the beauty that struts before me. God bless them and grant me a physique like that :)

Yes this! :eusa_clap:

thank you, I didn't know it was envy good to know though, I still feel like that but I'm sure it will get better when I start to transition into a woman. i do envy woman for how beautiful they are and that i want a body just like them since that's how i feel inside.

Yes I always had this when I see a beautiful girl I'm just jealous and want to be like her. I even had this with my girlfriends.

Quote from: Lavinia on March 18, 2014, 10:21:37 AM
hi, as the title says, its seems that I am very jealous of looking at women, it seems to get so bad that I cant even leave the house and makes me feel very depressed. I don't know if this is normal mostly reason why I'm asking it, I just started therapy but have no transitioned yet so I have a long way to go but just like to know if its a common thing.

That kind of envy is quite common and quite normal. I'm going through the same thing right now and it hits me harder every time my HRT gets delayed (which has happened several times now, it seems like every time I clear a hurdle another one pops up! :( )

Quote from: Lavinia on March 18, 2014, 10:48:21 AM
thank you, I didn't know it was envy good to know though, I still feel like that but I'm sure it will get better when I start to transition into a woman. i do envy woman for how beautiful they are and that i want a body just like them since that's how i feel inside.

Just remember that odds are this cis woman you're envying feels terrible about herself. Often, it's the good looking ones who suffer most and get very nasty comments from other women on their appearance. If she's cis, I bet you would be no happier if you were her. I hope that trans women have escaped all the messages I got growing up as a girl. Maybe not. But the woman you're looking at with envy is probably trying to decide if she can permit herself a salad with dressing and terrified that her boyfriend smiled a little too much at the waitress with bigger tits than her. If I had a million to spare, I'd bet it.

Quote from: FA on March 18, 2014, 11:24:25 AM
Just remember that odds are this cis woman you're envying feels terrible about herself. Often, it's the good looking ones who suffer most and get very nasty comments from other women on their appearance. If she's cis, I bet you would be no happier if you were her. I hope that trans women have escaped all the messages I got growing up as a girl. Maybe not. But the woman you're looking at with envy is probably trying to decide if she can permit herself a salad with dressing and terrified that her boyfriend smiled a little too much at the waitress with bigger tits than her. If I had a million to spare, I'd bet it.

Haha good one! You can count on FA for the real inside dope on things!

Envy and jealousity is something that we all experience from time to time. When I was young I was envious of the kids that had the richer parents. When I was a teenager and competed in long distance running I was jealous of my opponents. And now I'm jealous of the people who are in my age and already know what they want to do for the rest of their lives.
I've always had a bit of jealousity for attractive and social people and I've always considered myself to be ugly and unwanted wherever I am.

Your question comes up once in a while on Susan's, and I'm glad you're asking.  Each of us has felt just like you, and we wondered why we felt so jealous or envious of the cis women we meet or see on the streets.  But as I've progressed into 21 months of transition those feelings of jealously turned to simple envy, then the envy turned into admiration.  Yes I admire women who strike me as exceptional for any reason, be it looks, body, intelligence, or simply a beautiful demeanor.  But then I notice all women for who and what they are, as I likewise notice all my sisters here on Susan's, in group therapy, and at social gatherings.  We are all women in our own right, so we should embrace that as truth.

When I say "I'm envious." it's now just a term that's used to lightheartedly describe the admiration I feel for people.  And from now on I'll save my "jealousy" and "envy" for matters of love and money.  :)

You get that at first, then you get better at being yourself and you move past jealousy into admiration and then, if you've got awesome friends, to competition. It's pretty awesome.

thank you everyone, i'm glad that it will go away when i start to transition since i haven't started anything yet except for therapy, which was very difficult in the past because of where i lived. thank you again for all the answers that you gave me for this topic, im very appreciative for it.

It's very normal. I don't know how many times I have thought to myself I wish I had her boobs, or omg I love her top but it would look like hell on me and so on. I have even had cis friends say the same thing.

And to further back up the post from FA, a friend once said "Get ready for a lot of disappointment. You may think you will wake up one day and see a beautiful woman looking back at you in the mirror, but instead you will end up finding more wrongs every day weather it's your makeup not being right, your hair falling wrong, or that dress that looked amazing in the pictures, or on another girl looking horrible on you"

Pre transition there was much envy....oh why can't I just be a girl like that!!

Now my envy has turned into more of jealously...why can't I just be a girl like that! LOL

Seriously though my thoughts are more in jealously than envy....though they are very closely related. Its just that I am a woman now so my jealousy is more about hair, shape, skin, boobs......and some of the, wish I was a GG

Although when my children have friends over that are young girls....the envy of wishing I could of been a young teen girl does creep into my thoughts! Kind of the same thoughts I had when in high school.

Quote from: kariann330 on March 18, 2014, 12:12:12 PM
And to further back up the post from FA, a friend once said "Get ready for a lot of disappointment. You may think you will wake up one day and see a beautiful woman looking back at you in the mirror, but instead you will end up finding more wrongs every day weather it's your makeup not being right, your hair falling wrong, or that dress that looked amazing in the pictures, or on another girl looking horrible on you"

Exactly. There really is no 'there'. There's nowhere to get as a woman where you feel happy with your appearance. In fact, the better you look, the more pressure there is on you. Think of all the pressure you got as a guy to act as a certain way. That's pretty much the equivalent of what women get in regards to their appearance. Sure we get more leeway in clothes and behaviour, but we suffocate under the pressure of living up to a physical ideal no one can live up to. Males are very restricted in regard to clothes (and that's horrible), but it is no easier on the female side as we are restricted with regard to bodies. We can wear anything we want - but only if we have the acceptable body. A body that is biologically unattainable for most females. Women are meant to conserve fat and have larger hips and thighs. This is biology. But society dictates that we have a thigh gap while at the same time having ample tits. This is not how our bodies are designed.

So, if as a trans woman you don't live up to the female ideal, you're in good company! No one lives up to it. Gwen Stefani just posted a 'fat pic' of when she was young that shocked me and most her fans.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdanceswithfat.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F03%2Fgwen-stefani-chunky-picture.jpg&hash=c29aaced3989596b87f0f15be308fb024e1d4d99)

Unfortunately, if you're a woman and you hate your body, find it lacking, too big, too small, too masculine, whatever - you're in good company. There is probably no woman on this earth who feels good about her body.

i can see what you are saying and i agree with you, i think with me i think ill feel fine either way since ive felt like this since i was younger i really never felt normal even when i was a teenager and the envy didn't start til i was around 22 years old but i was very limited in florida since it was harder to get around then where i live now. i understand perfectly what you say, there are also men who don't like how they look either but i think for me ive always felt like a woman inside even when i was younger but i didn't know how i could cope with it once i hit a teenager so i turned to alcohol and cigarettes very early in my life but i think ill be pretty happy once i transition into a woman.

I know one trans woman who doesn't do jealousy. She doesn't do envy either. She does do admiration but that is about it.

Rosie.

Well, I can't speak for the others but I am very jealous of lots of cis girls and some of the girls on this board who have what I will never have and want so badly. You just do what you know you should and tell yourself it doesn't matter and that its better to move past it. Stings though. but you know... yolo.

thank you for everything you all said to me about being envy. I need to realize that I am envy right now because im not fully transitioned into a full woman yet but I need to learn that not to be envy to anyone after I do transition even though I'm sure those feelings will go away afterwards.

Don't be so sure that they will go away by themselves,  u will have to keep working on it.

thanks for the good advice, I will defiantly make sure that I always work on it after I transition since I probably will since its common so I will make sure that I keep on it so I can be happy and live a full life as myself, im still in pre transition with everything except therapy which I just started a week ago its been easier since the state I now live in is much easier to find therapists and others, but thank you for the advice I'm very appreciative of it.

Quote from: Lavinia on March 18, 2014, 03:09:33 PM
thank you for everything you all said to me about being envy. I need to realize that I am envy right now because im not fully transitioned into a full woman yet but I need to learn that not to be envy to anyone after I do transition even though I'm sure those feelings will go away afterwards.

I think even cis women are jealous of other beautiful women.

Quote from: anais on March 18, 2014, 04:46:23 PM
I think even cis women are jealous of other beautiful women.

I would like to expand that to that everyone is jealous of someone else. Who here hasn't felt jealous that someone has something you want but can't have etc.?

that's true, my friend just got a ps4 so I guess I'm a lil jealous at that lol, I know its way off topic but its true.

there are two kinds of jealously

the good one and the bad one

the good one goes kinda like this
"oh look at that cis girl she is so amazing and beautiful I wish I was like her "

and the bad one
"hm look at this cis girl why did she get to be like that I didnt scr*w that b*tch I hate her"

the envy or jealousy is the good one, not the bad one I would never say that to anyone, everyone deserves to be treated like they should be. I do feel like that how you said the good one but the bad one I would never say to anyone that is the worst kind of jealousy

To be completely honest I am totally not socialized this way. Maybe it's because I grew up with three super-attractive sisters and mom and I've just always felt happy and proud to be in their presence. When I transitioned I was pretty much just fully accepted as one of them. So when I see beautiful women, my instinct is not to be jealous but to befriend and socialize with them.

EDIT: The only time I *do* get jealous is when one of my friends ends up sleeping with someone I'm interested in. :) But it passes...

it was difficult for me since my mother didn't really understand what was going on with me, she thought I was just depressed all those years when I was drinking, but at the time she had no idea that I felt like a woman inside even when I was growing up. I do agree that I was depressed for a few years I tried to kill myself once by drinking to the point that I had alcohol poisoning just because I felt so different, I never felt normal. im mostly just usually jealous because how I feel like inside and how I want to be one of them one day which I am doing with going to therapy.

Yes, but keep in mind that girl your jealous of is probably jealous of someone else herself.  Everyone gets jealous from time to time, but what matters is where you take it.  For example when one's personal envy of someone else leads to anger or disgust towards that person, it really starts to cross a line.  Don't be like that.  If anything be inspired by someone you admire.  And remember no woman is perfect and very few of us will ever feel that way regardless of how we look. 

I was looked at woman with envy before I started transitioning..

They got to wear some many different styles of clothes, especially wearing a dress and got to make themselves pretty.. and got to wear high heel boots.

also they got to grow breasts.. I really wanted to wear a bra... Funny I was 19 the first time I wore one... and I started dressing at 14.. and girls got to wear earrings.. (I know guys can do this too.. but my father was a very conservative man, and he did not allow me to get my ears pierced..) He never approved of my transition and he passed away never accepting his daughter. I now have 3 holes in each ear.

Also i had envy that girls got to wear pantyhose and thongs... Pantyhose was the first piece of female clothing I ever wore at the age of 14.

Now I am a post-op transgender.. and I have no envy towards women.. as I get to do all those things now and I got grow breasts.. I am very happy as a woman.. and embrace my femininity every way I can.

Quote from: noleen111 on March 19, 2014, 10:42:53 AM

Now I am a post-op transgender.. and I have no envy towards women.. as I get to do all those things now and I got grow breasts.. I am very happy as a woman.. and embrace my femininity every way I can.

Yeah it common to be jealous.....OMG Noleen those legs!  ;D Being jealous never goes away, there's always someone with prettier this or that than what you have and it's totally female to be envious of another woman's attributes.

I agree with you noleen, I felt the same way, I wore a womans bathing suit to school when I was 15 and I loved it, I didn't try pantyhose til I was in my 20s and I start wearing womans clothing underneath my clothes after I came out to my parents and they accepted it. I still get envy but I think since ive been talking on here that its making me control my envy feelings towards others and its getting easier for me to go out now, im stil pre transition so I still have a way to go also my dad doesn't like the name Lavinia but im still keeping it I like it.

Quote from: Shantel on March 19, 2014, 12:40:39 PM
it's totally female to be envious of another woman's attributes.

I don't know if it is a left hand side of the pond thing or not but over here it is not a "totally female" thing to be envious. At least not according to my cis-gendered partner, cis-gendered neighbour and cis-gendered sisters.

Jealousy and envy are both dead-ends. You will never be the person you are envious of and they may even hate the thing you are getting all green-eyed over. Why waste the energy?

Rosie

Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on March 19, 2014, 01:41:53 PM
I don't know if it is a left hand side of the pond thing or not but over here it is not a "totally female" thing to be envious. At least not according to my cis-gendered partner, cis-gendered neighbour and cis-gendered sisters.

Jealousy and envy are both dead-ends. You will never be the person you are envious of and they may even hate the thing you are getting all green-eyed over. Why waste the energy?

Rosie

Well Rosie, all I can say is that you and your immediate friends have a lot of good sense not wasting your time with petty stuff.

Quote from: Shantel on March 19, 2014, 02:51:20 PM
Well Rosie, all I can say is that you and your immediate friends have a lot of good sense not wasting your time with petty stuff.

Sorry Auntie Shan, I was trying really hard to phrase things so I didn't come across as a supercilious whatnot but I probably failed.  I really am not trying to lecture anyone but would really like to know...why jealously or envy? What is the point?

Rosie

Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on March 19, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
Sorry Auntie Shan, I was trying really hard to phrase things so I didn't come across as a supercilious whatnot but I probably failed.  I really am not trying to lecture anyone but would really like to know...why jealously or envy? What is the point?

Rosie

I personally believe that jealousy and envy are an evolutional trait. It has encouraged our species to work harder and achieve better and better results. If everybody was happy about how things was we would maybe still be strolling around on the african savannah.

Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on March 19, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
Sorry Auntie Shan, I was trying really hard to phrase things so I didn't come across as a supercilious whatnot but I probably failed.  I really am not trying to lecture anyone but would really like to know...why jealously or envy? What is the point?

Rosie

I didn't think you were lecture me honey, I was kidding about my own jealousy, just giving Noleen a veiled complement. I really do notice that cis women here do suffer jealousy over women that are either prettier, better dressed or who have a nicer figure than them. I've observed it often in social settings. I'll take it a step further by saying that cis woman not only dress for themselves when they do dress up, and not only for themselves but for the approval of other women and the admiration of men. So when some terrific looking woman comes in a room full of men and women, the men's heads turn and invariably envy based comments are spoken under the breath of a few women. It's just the way it is.