Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Male to female transsexual talk (MTF) => Topic started by: Nigella on July 17, 2007, 04:28:43 AM Return to Full Version

Title: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Nigella on July 17, 2007, 04:28:43 AM
Hi there girls and boys,

I have been thinking seriously, perhaps a little too much sometimes. I really hate men. I don't trust them and think they are only out for what they can get. Now why is that? I was bullied and picked on and ostracised by boys when I was young. Never picked for sports, never had any friends who were boys come around my house unless they had no one else to play with at the time and I was the last resort from boredom.

I always remember an incident from primary school at the age of about 6 when the headmaster (man) grabbed me by the arm and pulled me across the room, I never told my mum. I had been off ill and had forgotten to take my mum's letter to school and the headmaster thought I had been dogging it off school. That sticks in my mind 40+ years latter. Don't get me wrong my father was always around but never really had a close relationship with him, never went out just the two of us and never shared any kind of hobby.

Now after that background my thoughts are this.

Is it my transexual/ GID issues that I hate my male body transferred onto other males, hence I don't like them, don't trust them, don't like talking to them. Or is it my hate of males that is causing my GID? I don't like being grouped in with them so I am seeing myself as something else, ie female. or is it both and all of the above. Or it could be that I am just plain insane, lol.

I don't know if that makes any sense or I am making my feelings clear.

hugs and kisses

Nigella
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: rhonda13000 on July 17, 2007, 04:37:17 AM
I sure hated trying to be one.

It just didn't work for me.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Nigella on July 17, 2007, 04:40:45 AM
Rhonda,

May be that's just it and I'm reading to much into my feelings about myself.

hugs and kisses

Nigella
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Buffy on July 17, 2007, 04:45:53 AM
The world is what it is because both men and women make it so. It takes both to contribute in their different ways to society, good and bad.

I never had much of a relationship with my Father, but he spent most of his time at work. As a TS I hated my Male life, but I never hated other men.

Hate is a word that also I would never apply to men. I dont understand their motives, the way they think, but I would never use the word hate in that context. To me its like saying all men are rapists or pedophiles which is totally untrue. There are bad women, like there are many, many good men.

Trust, yes that is something I would relate to men, I do distrust them, especially socially as their motives are very one track for sure.

But men make me laugh, make me feel special, treat me like a lady, buy me meals, flowers, take me to the Cinema. Granted they also infuriate me by their behaviour at times, but no I dont hate them.

The World is a better place for Men being what they are in my opinion.

Buffy

Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: rhonda13000 on July 17, 2007, 04:46:45 AM
Quote from: Nigella on July 17, 2007, 04:40:45 AM
Rhonda,

May be that's just it and I'm reading to much into my feelings about myself.

hugs and kisses

Nigella

Oh, I wasn't being 'critical', hon.  :)

Yours just prompted that recollection and thought.  :)
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Nigella on July 17, 2007, 05:20:52 AM
Buffy,

Perhaps hate is to strong a word, sorry. Dislike, distrust then.

hugs and kisses

Nigella
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Godiva on July 17, 2007, 05:32:57 AM
Nigerlla


I hope what I am going to say may help you feel better about your old school Head Master. I was once a Head Master of a very large school. Regardless, of the terror and fear that we Head Masters can inspire within the young and tender of youth, we are human and we School Head Masters can make mistakes, even transsexual Head Masters. But, I believe that I am right in saying Head Masters really love their jobs because they love children, all children.


Godive,
Former Transsexual Head Master
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Elizabeth on July 17, 2007, 05:44:20 AM
I could live in a man free world. It's not that I have a grudge, I don't. I just have no need for men. I was never part of the male competition thing, just never felt it. I get along with women way better, as far as friends go. And I am sexually attracted to women.

It's not that I have anything against them, I just can't relate to them. I hate a lot of what goes on with men, especially when it's just men. I don't care to drink or gamble. Other than being a football fan, I don't really care for sports. I am offended when men degrade women, which is almost all the time. I know there are plenty of good guys out there, it's just that I could live in a world with only women.

Love always,
Elizabeth
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Nigella on July 17, 2007, 07:13:24 AM
Quote from: Elizabeth on July 17, 2007, 05:44:20 AM
I could live in a man free world. It's not that I have a grudge, I don't. I just have no need for men. I was never part of the male competition thing, just never felt it. I get along with women way better, as far as friends go. And I am sexually attracted to women.

It's not that I have anything against them, I just can't relate to them. I hate a lot of what goes on with men, especially when it's just men. I don't care to drink or gamble. Other than being a football fan, I don't really care for sports. I am offended when men degrade women, which is almost all the time. I know there are plenty of good guys out there, it's just that I could live in a world with only women.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth, that's how I feel but there is a stronger feeling of distrust, etc. My point is why? Is it that I can not relate to them because of my GID or becasue of the bad relationships in the past? or perhaps both? Other transsexuals seem to be able to relate to the opposite sex fairly well. Am I being to introspective?

Hugs and kisses

Nigella
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: inncdava on July 17, 2007, 10:04:15 AM
Good points here.

I lived a a man from January 4, 1983 until January 3, 2004 after I could no longer able to deal with the deaths of my mother and brother (they died three months apart in 2002.) Had I remained a man after that, I would have committed suicide.

I have been in transition to female since that time. Growing up I had more female friends than male friends.  However, because of my biological gender, I can only date cisgendered women. Following my transition, that would make me a lesbian.

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but that is how I see things nowadays.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: asiangurliee on July 17, 2007, 10:08:54 AM
I am sexually attracted to men,, but I don't like most men either.

They are the ones that usually are more cruel and confrontational and hostile toward transsexual women, at least that's how I see it.

And most of  those that are attracted to transsexuals are only interested in one thing and we all know what that is.

I just can't see anything good about men at the moment although I know that a few good men do exist.

In general, men are mostly just troubles.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: rhonda13000 on July 17, 2007, 10:27:41 AM
I hate string beans, myself......

OK OK....... :embarrassed:
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2007, 10:38:24 AM
I am afraid that I can not, not say this but you cant put all men in that same categorie.     >:(
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: rhonda13000 on July 17, 2007, 10:40:17 AM
Quote from: Jaston on July 17, 2007, 10:38:24 AM
I am afraid that I can not, not say this but you cant put all men in that same categorie.     >:(

I concur; one cannot universalize.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Lori on July 17, 2007, 10:45:56 AM
I like some men. Although they are somewhat confusing, they are a critical part of daily life. Not all men are the same just as all women are not the same. There are people, and in that we have a mixture of males and females. There are some men that are much kinder than many women I have met, and some women that are so sweet you need to visit the dentist to have your teeth cleaned before cavities set it. On the flip side society also produces aggresive cocky aholes and mean back stabbing bitches. To say "I hate men" as a general statement does not bid well. To say "I dislike many men" would probably be more accurate and much more understandable.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Shana A on July 17, 2007, 10:48:02 AM
I can't say that I hate men, but based on persecution for being gender variant that I went through as a child, and being a victim of rape as a teenager, I distrust most men. I've made a conscious effort in my adult life to learn and understand that not all men are bad, and in fact, I now have a few men friends. Patriarchal attitudes in society is a significant issue, however one can't generalize, there are some wonderful humans out there who happen to be men.

zythyra
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: rhonda13000 on July 17, 2007, 10:54:39 AM
Quote from: Lori on July 17, 2007, 10:45:56 AM
I like some men. Although they are somewhat confusing, they are a critical part of daily life. Not all men are the same just as all women are not the same. There are people, and in that we have a mixture of males and females. There are some men that are much kinder than many women I have met, and some women that are so sweet you need to visit the dentist to have your teeth cleaned before cavities set it. On the flip side society also produces aggresive cocky aholes and mean back stabbing bitches. To say "I hate men" as a general statement does not bid well. To say "I dislike many men" would probably be more accurate and much more understandable.

I'm hetero all the way; I always have been.

It's rationally insupportable and unfair to universalize and no, I am NOT accusing ANYONE here of doing this.

I have indeed met MANY good and decent men, in my life.

Indeed, I pray that I will find such to be my husband, one fine day.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Sheila on July 17, 2007, 12:50:27 PM
I just dislike most men. I have found a few that I like and they are very nice, but for the most part I could live without them. I was raised without a dad, but my grandfather was sort of a father figure, when he was around. I had a neighbor, when growing up, help me out with mechanical things. There were no hands raised when I needed someone to go do guy things with though. I didn't care about those things anyway, but I did want to fit in. I didn't even have any friends growing up. I had a neighbor, son of man who helped me, come over and spend time with. I think it was cause there wasn't any parental supervision in my house. I was the parent and he could do what he wanted. I was happy to have a friend (pathetic). I was also last and not wanted in sports at school. I was told that I shouldn't play little league by one of the fathers as I didn't have a father to help out. So, I really don't like men all that much. I certainly wouldn't want one kissing me. yuck
Sheila
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: mavieenrose on July 17, 2007, 01:23:11 PM
Personally the idea of living in a world without men is something I find quite scary and I definitely don't hate them (in fact quite a few are quite gorgeous :) )

Just imagine all the bitching and the endless conversations about emotions and feelings; I would defnitely miss the matter of factness of men, and the way their lives are so often just very physical.  I don't understand it, but it is different and refreshing sometimes.

That said, I can understand women feeling uncomfortable with many men. They often just don't seem to act in ways that we can easily understand and so often don't communicate the same way.  It's generally so much simpler to talk with women, there are so many things you don't need to explain, things that just go as read...

And of course as a trans woman with men there is always the fear that they might reject or abuse us, because we have rejected the very manhood that they are so proud of.

MVER XXX
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: louise000 on July 17, 2007, 03:02:01 PM
I know maybe I shouldn't if I'm really a woman inside, but I think men are disgusting. I should know since I've had to spend most of my life acting like one. Even when I was a child there was no way I wanted to be like the boys in our neighbourhood,  fighting and throwing stones at birds and cats wasn't my idea of fun. Nah sorry I can't fancy men - but what does that make me? Now I'm really confused. At least after reading the previous posts I know I'm not alone.
Louise
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: asiangurliee on July 17, 2007, 03:20:04 PM
I like this quote

"Men come and go, but girlfriends are forever", it has been true so far.


I don't think men are so special that they are all *bad*, I don't know if anyone seriously thinks that all men are bad and all women are good.

Anyways, there is this important point that men might be hostile to transsexual women because we are getting rid of something they are proud of.

I think misogyny is very real and very bad.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Nigella on July 17, 2007, 03:36:33 PM
WOW thanks all,

I think I distrust them because of my childhood experiences, to be honest I don't know if I can take them or leave them. I think I at the moment I will leave then at arms distance just to be on the safe side, lol.

I like your quote asiangurliee, "girlfriends are forever" very true.

hugs and Kisses

Nigella 
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Nero on July 17, 2007, 05:00:19 PM
Ok. I was poised for another of my inspired rants upon seeing the title of this thread. I was certain some militant feminist ftm started it. :laugh:

I feel you, but in the opposite direction.
As an ftm, my first lesson in kindergarten was:

Girls = mean

Boys = nice
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: melissa90299 on July 17, 2007, 09:31:18 PM
I could live in a male-free world and for the most part do. I do think I will have at least a couple post-op romps in the hay but, other than that, men are only needed for their sperm.

I will say I find most gay men and FtMs very interesting and the only real friendships I have ever had with men were gay of FtM.

I have been forced to watch a lot of Fox News and these predatory men are particularly disturbing, they just found the guy who shot his girlfriend while she was on stage. Imagine that!
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: asiangurliee on July 17, 2007, 09:35:39 PM
I think science can allow reproduction without male sperm, so technically, men are not needed at all. Hehe.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: rhonda13000 on July 17, 2007, 09:41:45 PM
Quote from: asiangurliee on July 17, 2007, 09:35:39 PM
I think science can allow reproduction without male sperm, so technically, men are not needed at all. Hehe.


I wonder if we could even reproduce via fission, like amoebas.....

OK OK........ :embarrassed:
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: andy24canada on July 18, 2007, 01:54:25 AM
I hate men too :P

they cause so many troubles :(

bunch of meanies
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Jay on July 18, 2007, 10:12:17 AM
Quote from: Nero on July 17, 2007, 05:00:19 PM
Ok. I was poised for another of my inspired rants upon seeing the title of this thread. I was certain some militant feminist ftm started it. :laugh:

I feel you, but in the opposite direction.
As an ftm, my first lesson in kindergarten was:

Girls = mean

Boys = nice

I hear ya Nero!
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Nigella on July 19, 2007, 03:55:05 AM
Quote from: Jaston on July 18, 2007, 10:12:17 AM
Quote from: Nero on July 17, 2007, 05:00:19 PM
Ok. I was poised for another of my inspired rants upon seeing the title of this thread. I was certain some militant feminist ftm started it. :laugh:

I feel you, but in the opposite direction.
As an ftm, my first lesson in kindergarten was:

Girls = mean

Boys = nice

I hear ya Nero!

Interesting that we have opposite views and opposite gender identity according to our birth gender. Is that something then to do with our GID and formative relationships? This was my question at the start of this thread and not really anything to do with whether we like men or not. Maybe I confused people as I confuse myself, lol.

hugs and kisses

Nigella
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Buffy on July 19, 2007, 05:24:49 AM
Yeah ...

The Title "I hate men, sorry" ... is slightly misleading Nigella

I guess it is not what you wished to say in the way you did.

Buffy
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: debisl on July 19, 2007, 07:12:12 AM
I like men! They are are a must if you want to be in what society calls a normal relationship. They are so fun to be with, if it is the right guy. I don't like abusive people myself, and I will run the other way if confronted by one.
Women have what men desire, and it is exciting to be around them.
Everyone is different, and that is what makes the world go around.

Deb
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Manyfaces on July 19, 2007, 10:04:15 AM
There was a time in my life when I hated men, due no doubt in part to having been abused in various ways by some of them as a child. 

What made me have to re-examine my feelings about men was giving birth to a son, and realizing that he was going to become one.  How could I reasonably sustain an attitude of hatred toward men while raising a son?

In the intervening years, I have met and known some good and gentle and very enlightened men, and it's been a long time since I felt the need to apply that blanket of hatred to "all men."

However, finding myself now on the point of transitioning to myself live as a man, I've become aware that all of those old and deeply buried pains, fears and prejudices will need to be examined again, through an entirely different lens.  I expect it to be an interesting process. 
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: ChildOfTheLight on July 19, 2007, 04:48:35 PM
Quote from: asiangurliee on July 17, 2007, 09:35:39 PM
I think science can allow reproduction without male sperm, so technically, men are not needed at all. Hehe.


They're working on it.  But men run science, so they'll develop a way to do it without human eggs first (implant DNA into animal eggs and have artificial incubators as in Brave New World?), thus making women irrelevant instead!  Mwahahaha!

Seriously, though, as I recall, because of certain ways in which genes are activated, embryos artificially created from the DNA of two males, or two females, don't develop properly and are not viable.  Maybe scientists are finding ways to circumvent this -- I don't know.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: melissa90299 on July 19, 2007, 08:13:26 PM
Quote from: debisl on July 19, 2007, 07:12:12 AM
I like men! They are are a must if you want to be in what society calls a normal relationship. They are so fun to be with, if it is the right guy. I don't like abusive people myself, and I will run the other way if confronted by one.
Women have what men desire, and it is exciting to be around them.
Everyone is different, and that is what makes the world go around.

Deb

I am a dyke and feel that I am 100% normal. And I sure didn't transition to become an hors d'oeuvres on some guy's (or girl's) buffet tray.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Thundra on July 20, 2007, 12:35:17 AM
QuoteI am sexually attracted to men,, but I don't like most men either.

QuoteThere were times when I wondered why I was "still" attracted to men despite all the horrible things they did to me during my childhood.

These are some fairly common attitudes amongst women.  Makes you two very typical for str8 gals. Most women are perplexed by their attraction to the people that usually hurt them. It's pre-programmed, so no figuring it out. I know that if you look around and don't settle for the wrong person, you might just find a keeper out there.  ;)

Now, as for you guys here, I haven't met one of you yet that acts on here the way most guys do out in the real world. Doesn't mean you aren't real men, not at all. I have friends out in the real world that are great men. Honest, hard-working, and treat their women like gold. Unfortunately, it seems like they always pick the women that treat them like %$#&. But in my life, all too often men feel like they have to act out like guys. And it usually means that women gets hurt in the process. I do not like it, but you cannot fight nature.

Why the %&%$ is that? The really nice women pick &^^*%$#@ for a BF, and the really nice guys do the same thing with women. Some women can be just as mean as men in their own way.

I dunno. It seems like when I was younger, women were nicer and men acted more like gentlemen. Maybe we were all just hiding our true natures. But civility has certainly taken a nosedive over the last couple of decades.

I don't hate men. I just don't like guys. Men that act in a civil manner and don't disrespect women will have no issues with me. I like diversity. Men that want to be a jerk and violent, and treat women like &%$# are going to have an enemy in me. Like I said before, most people annoy the hell out of me, but I don't hate on the basis of gender or sex, more on behavior. People in general are just whacked.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Hypatia on July 22, 2007, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: debisl on July 19, 2007, 07:12:12 AM
I like men! They are are a must if you want to be in what society calls a normal relationship.
How is that comment not homophobic?
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: asiangurliee on July 22, 2007, 08:14:39 PM
Quote from: Hypatia on July 22, 2007, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: debisl on July 19, 2007, 07:12:12 AM
I like men! They are are a must if you want to be in what society calls a normal relationship.
How is that comment not homophobic?

and heterosexist, who gives a crap what is considered normal by society? i don't.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: melissa90299 on July 22, 2007, 09:37:32 PM
Quote from: Hypatia on July 22, 2007, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: debisl on July 19, 2007, 07:12:12 AM
I like men! They are are a must if you want to be in what society calls a normal relationship.
How is that comment not homophobic?

And women have what men desire. Oh, it is so kewl being a girl  now that I have what men desire. :)
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Buffy on July 22, 2007, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 22, 2007, 09:37:32 PM
[And women have what men desire. Oh, it is so kewl being a girl  now that I have what men desire. :)

You have a 102 inch Plasma TV, Fast sports car, tickets to the next Super bowl and a years supply of free beer.

I am impressed Melissa

Buffy
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Wendy on July 22, 2007, 10:31:26 PM
Nigella,

I was very afraid to go to elementary school.  One runt could beat me up; however, it seemed to be more fun if three would do it.  Most of the time they just made me cry and would hit me a couple of times and take some of my clothing.

I absolutely refused to do contact sports and that infuriated my dad.

Prior to attending school I only played with the girls and  was totally accepted by them.

When I started school I got cut off from both genders because I was different.

I had some very intelligent guy friends and a few guys that liked me and protected me in elementary school. 

My first "real" girlfriend which was after college was mean to me.  She acted like a guy.

I made friends easily by my mid-twenties; however, I kept almost no close friends.  In fact my wife has been my only close friend.

I have experienced some brutal female corporate executives.  These women needed to show their dominance and guess who they always found.

Some women and some men are nice.  Some men and some woman are rotten.  I tend to trust women more than men but it depends on the person.

I try to judge a person's actions to determine if I want to associate with that individual. 
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Kate on July 22, 2007, 11:16:38 PM
Quote from: asiangurliee on July 17, 2007, 10:08:54 AM
I am sexually attracted to men,, but I don't like most men either.

Isn't that frustrating? I mean, women are pretty and I can relate to (most of) them easily, but... they don't do anything much for me sexually.

And men I feel SO uncomfortable around, and yet... well, you know. It makes no sense, lol. I WILL say though that ironically, I was more uncomfy around men as a guy than I am as a girl. As a guy, I was terrified they'd figure me out, or think I was gay. Now... lol... you just wait 'till I find more confidence. This is gonna be FUN ;)

I dunno though Nigella, guys CAN be wonderful. Whether I relate to them or not, I know of a few who are truly beautiful human beings... including many men I work with. These are people I would easily trust my very life with. Men at their best are so wonderfully noble and honourable... it's a wonderous thing to behold.

~Kate~
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: melissa90299 on July 22, 2007, 11:51:54 PM
Quote from: Buffy on July 22, 2007, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 22, 2007, 09:37:32 PM
[And women have what men desire. Oh, it is so kewl being a girl  now that I have what men desire. :)

You have a 102 inch Plasma TV, Fast sports car, tickets to the next Super bowl and a years supply of free beer.

I am impressed Melissa

Buffy


You missed the irony.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Buffy on July 23, 2007, 09:41:14 AM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 22, 2007, 11:51:54 PM
Quote from: Buffy on July 22, 2007, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 22, 2007, 09:37:32 PM
[And women have what men desire. Oh, it is so kewl being a girl  now that I have what men desire. :)

You have a 102 inch Plasma TV, Fast sports car, tickets to the next Super bowl and a years supply of free beer.

I am impressed Melissa

Buffy


You missed the irony.

No, got the irony, just introduced Sarcasm.

Buffy
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Laura Elizabeth Jones on July 23, 2007, 10:13:31 AM
Quote from: Buffy on July 22, 2007, 09:43:16 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 22, 2007, 09:37:32 PM
[And women have what men desire. Oh, it is so kewl being a girl  now that I have what men desire. :)

You have a 102 inch Plasma TV, Fast sports car, tickets to the next Super bowl and a years supply of free beer.

I am impressed Melissa

Buffy


WOW!! I wish that I had those things!!! Then I could sell them and finance my transition.  ;D
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: JodieBlonde on July 24, 2007, 02:12:32 PM
I personally hate to use such a broad paintbrush to color ALL men as Evil incarnates.

I am male, and I don't feel that I have to answer that charge as I am not hateful towards MTFs and FTMs..although I don't think the results of the latter are all that good. I also do not think I am evil..not in the slightest..and I don't want to "know" you sexually either...I am happily married and shall stay that way.

MTFs however are a threat to most men because they feel they too could become female if it weren't for place/time/circumstances...therefor I sense the threat to them.

As male, I can say that I am most fragile in ways that women don't understand...and sexuality or perceptions of that sexuality are critical in the guy world.

If a guy swishes the slightest, then they get monikered as a ->-bleeped-<- or just a swish.

I believe it's also the incredible beauty of a TG that bothers some of them too. We all see ourselves with different eyes than the world see us....otherwise we all would not cringe when we see ourselves on a video or a picture from an unflattering angle.

We look into a mirror and don't really see who we are...but we see whom we think we should be. Macho....bronzed gods.... protectors of weak women is the stereotypical vision...but there are shades of gray in that too.

No..since a guy could become a woman so simply...at least the outward appearances of being one..then that's the threat I think. <I know I glossed over that a lot..and I do not infer that the change is simple in the slightest...just the male perception of it is>

It shakes a very basic foundation of being male that they are not unique medically anyway. The wash of hormones at some period of prenatal growth isn't the whole thing...it's a nurture/nature thing that goes 'way beyond the outward appearances.

I am not gonna open the mental and psychological transmogrifications that are needed..just the purely mechanical ones.

Remember that the biggest and strongest sex organ is between the ears. 
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: JodieBlonde on July 24, 2007, 02:54:07 PM
yw...I didn't get this old and not think about things deeply....besides I too am a "loner" who only had a few friends...I believe I "chose" them to keep the count low. It may have been that I didn't consider many to be my equal too.

I had a really good friend in a writer and confidant who eventually died of AIDS..and he WAS gay. He never hit on me at all though.

He enjoyed being the third wheel in dates I had and then girls were most appreciative that they had a chaperon to tell their mothers that they were probably safe from my advances that way.

That male friend and I usta sneak out of school in New Jersey and go to the Old Met Opera house almost once a month.

I never had any sexual fear of him and I don't even think he had one of me...we were very close...but not physically ever. I guess he got physical with somebody or somebodies who gave him the death sentence though..he died when he was about 38 or 40...I only learned of it many years later. That was sad..he was a brilliant writer. We defended each other from outside snickers..I was fine arts, he was a writer.

Never did the thought of having an encounter with him enter my mind...we were guys and he may have held that back in deference to my guy-ness.


Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: ValerieMTL on September 21, 2007, 07:55:35 AM
I have found that I have no use for men. I think that this feeling comes from the fact that men r the ones who have made all the stupid ignorant comments when they found out about my transition, whereas the women have all been so sympathetic and awesome about it. I spoke to a friend of mine about this. He is a straight male that works at lesbian bar that I hang out at here in Montreal. He made a few very interesting points. What he said was that women have had to fight for their right to do anything... whether it was the right to vote or the right to wear pants. Men on the other hand haven't changed since they were cavemen. Men have never been forced to re-examine the way that they view the world because they have never been in any situation that has required it of them.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: lisagurl on September 21, 2007, 11:21:48 AM
It seems there is a lot of stereo typing of the role males are expected to play therefor hate the whole group.  Each person is an individual and deserves to treated as such. Many men do not like the role they are expected to play. If you get past the mask society forced them to ware then you will find a real person.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: ValerieMTL on September 21, 2007, 12:06:15 PM
I agree with u Lisa. The problem is that even though many men will let the mask come off in private and display great amounts of empathy, the minute they are back with the rest of their guy friends, the old mentality sets back in. Like I mentioned, this has so much to do with the expectations of men in our society. Until there is some sort of movement that forces men to re-evalute themselves, I don't really see this situation changing all that much.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Wing Walker on September 22, 2007, 05:49:26 AM
About six years ago I began my transitioning.  It wasn't long after I started using estrogen that my view of men changed.  I began to develop an intense dislike of them.  For me it was needing to wipe out my 'guilt by association."  They were the most repulsive form of life I could imagine.  I could never understand how they could talk about women and our bodies as they did and still want to date, court, and have sex with a woman.  Such talk never came from my mouth, ever.  I held genetic women in extremely high esteem and lived accordingly.

After what was apparently enough time finding all men loathsome I began to become more forgiving and tolerant of them in general and narrowed my loathing to those I believe deserved it.

As for a relationship with a man, it is a non-starter.  I have no desire for a man, women only, and I don't care if they are GG or M to F. 

Wing Walker
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: ValerieMTL on September 22, 2007, 06:37:59 AM
Hey Wing Walker,

Great post. I guess that's 'cause I agree with everything u said. ;)

all the best...

V xx
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Hypatia on September 22, 2007, 07:29:10 AM
Estrogen allowed me to really find myself as bisexual. I'm like Kate, men generally make me uncomfortable, but the sexual attraction (to the extent I have any at all) is undeniably there, like it or not.

Perhaps like Kate, once my transition is completed, SRS and all, I will be able to relax better around men. I hate feeling threatened every time I'm out alone and see a group of men. My instinct is to get away immediately. I still need to get over those rapes when I was 13, as well as the years of trauma resulting from being forced into the company of boys where I obviously did not fit in. When I look back on that male socialization I endured, all I can see is a bottomless pit of misery and horror. I need to move forward all the way and get clear of the past before I can hope to relate to men in a balanced and healthy way.

A large part of my discomfort is being obviously very femme but not securely placed in the female niche of the binary yet. I will be there very soon! My presenting ambiguous gender makes men uneasy, and that in turn causes me discomfort being around their vibes. Guess I'm just not cut out to be genderqueer, I belong on the female side of the binary.

I just like women ever so much better, in every respect. I find the company of women a healing refuge when the stress of living in a male-dominated world becomes too oppressive. Bisexuality or attraction to men has no real significance for me, it's just there like any other biological function, big deal. But lesbianism holds very deep and vital significance for me, emotionally, spiritually, I thrive on the love of women for women, it makes my life complete.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: SarahFaceDoom on September 22, 2007, 01:41:51 PM
I didn't enjoy growing up with men, but I do have more than a few kick butt guy friends.  So I can't say that's a whole lot to do with it.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Wendy on September 28, 2007, 12:13:03 PM
Quote from: Kiera on September 22, 2007, 04:35:32 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 17, 2007, 05:00:19 PMAs an ftm, my first lesson in kindergarten was:

Girls = mean

Boys = nice
Nero, I'm with you on this one! Having had time to extensively observe two kids, boy 7 and girl 9, and their alleged friends I find "properly socialized" girls to be generally much more self-centered and cruel when it comes to relationships between each other whereas young boys are for the most part much more innocent, honest and straightforward with each other.

:icon_bunch:

I have two daughters and one son.  They are all extremely considerate and well liked by their peers.  My son is the least confrontational with me.  My youngest daughter (16), who is the most sensitive and considerate of my three children, is the most confrontational with me. 

In the Bronx I attended the nerdy class.  Some of the children were snooty but most were nice.  I was shark bait outside of class.  Fortunately I befriended a shark or two that was at the top of the food chain.

If I displeased my dad I was shark bait and the young boys sensed an easy meal.
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Ms Bev on September 28, 2007, 10:50:39 PM
I rarely seek the company of men, usually I will as a last resort, and think the whole time "I wish there was a woman around to talk to...".  I find group discussions among male coworkers to be soooooo boring sometimes.  They are often crude, and get so emotionally involved in sports talk, and statistics *yawn*. They scratch, pick their noses, and keep right on going.
There are a few men I enjoy the company of, but they are as interested in literature, movies, and the like, more so than most guys.
Nah.....gimmie a girl, any day.  Clean, soft, nice.


Bev
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: Berliegh on September 29, 2007, 03:20:51 AM
This is too much of a generalisation....

Some men are very nice, sensitive, strong and cool...
Some Women are very nice, sensitive, strong and cool...

Some men are absolute pigs...
Some Women are absolute bitches...

Maybe what you really mean is you don't want to have a relationship with a man Nigella?
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: SarahFaceDoom on September 29, 2007, 10:16:21 AM
Patriarchal society= Bad
Men= Sometimes good
Title: Re: I hate men, sorry
Post by: buttercup on October 10, 2007, 07:32:49 PM
Wow, I envy how some of you meet such lovely women all the time.  Especially, since going through transition, I don't find all women sympathetic, some resent tgs and can't except them.  Some can really surprise you about how insecure they are!  I have had to deal with the biggest bitches in my life, starting with my foster mother and others over the years.  When you meet a real bitch, they'll take you down as quick as look at you.  If they feel you are a threat to them, you are dead meat!  I have also known the most sweetest and wonderful women that I ever thought could exist, when you find a gem, nothing can surpass them.  But on a whole, I would not say women are the nicest human beings on the planet just because they are women.
I also have met the worst in the form of maleness.  They can be physically, sexually aggressive and I have felt the full force of such an involvement since my childhood.  A lot find it hard to be honest, even the nicest guys still find it hard to be honest about who they are and that irks me.  I think many are not honest with themselves, while I find women in general can be.
So my thoughts are basically that being a good person does not entail being female.  It comes from within, it's only men do it more loudly and physically so are more open to being hated, women are more sly and coniving and a little harder to detect.
I sound pretty harsh I know, but I seem to be unlucky in having dealt with the extremes of both sexes, so I'm a little jaded.  :(
Sexually, I am attracted to both, but I prefer women's friendship, I can't relate to men as friends.