Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I need to rant, sorry folks

It's taken almost 3yrs to get HRT on the NHS, it's been a battle all the way but due to the new guidelines i've finally broken through the red tape & have been on E for 6 months now.

Now that i'm on E i'm having to fight a new battle for electrolysis, I put in a request last year due to the fact that I have severe eczema & CANNOT wear make up to hide my very prominent 5 O'clock shadow, the response was that my case wasn't exceptional enough!!!
I put an appeal in (with photo evidence of my skin) & they refused to consider it as the guidelines changed 2 days before my appeal went in.

Once the guidelines changed my GP put in a new request last September as the guidelines state that if you are transitioning you are entitled to 8 sessions of electrolysis, I have chased this up as i've heard nothing for 7 months.
Today my GP had a response from the funding team, they have told her that I cannot get electrolysis until i'm on HRT (which I am) & have had GRS, the NHS guidelines about GRS state that I must present as female for 1 year before I am eligible for GRS, this is sheer madness!!
How the hell am I supposed to present as female when I cannot wear make up? some days my skin is so bad I can't even shave!!

To sum up I cannot have facial hair removed until I have GRS but cannot present as female to get GRS until I have facial hair removed.
I hate transitioning on the NHS, if there was any way for me to go private then I would in a heartbeat.

End of rant

Edit: For those who are new to this forum or transitioning in the UK i'll translate a few things as when I started on this forum years ago I had no idea what all of these letters meant.

GIC = Gender Identity Clinic
HRT = Hormone Replacement Therapy
NHS = Bunch of heartless penny pinchers
RLE = Real Life Experience
GRS = Gender Reassignment Surgery

Does anyone on here have a link to the new NHS guidelines?
I need to go through this document with a fine toothed comb, if they keep messing me around like this then i'll consider legal action to force them to let me have what I should be entitled to, fuming doesn't even come close to describing the mood i'm in right now

I don't have a link to the guidelines, but I do have a huge amount of sympathy for what you're being put through.  I'm sorry, that doesn't really help much, but I would be so angry, too if I was in your situation :(

The NHS is something we can be so proud of, but it can be really rubbish at times too.

At the beginnings of my transition, I was made aware of Julia Grant. I watched her documentaries about her NHS struggles. Never was anything more depressing. I get my HRT and blood tests on the NHS. And I draw the line there. Everything else I managed privately. Yes, it can be a nightmare.

Quote from: Joan on March 26, 2014, 05:49:34 AM


The NHS is something we can be so proud of, but it can be really rubbish at times too.

I've recently been treated by my local dermatology department & put on immno suppressants for my skin, getting refered to dermatology was a nightmare but once i'd seen them they put me on an emergency list for the next available hospital bed, I can't rate them highly enough.
My local GP surgery is outstanding, I wouldn't dream of saying a bad thing about them, they really have pulled out all of the stops to help me with my Gender reasignment & my skin problems.

Where the NHS falls down & fails patients is always due to the pen pushers & their stupid rules/regulations & pettiness.

Bureaucracy, the bane of everybody's existence (except, possibly, for the wealthy).

I can't imagine how terrible it must have been for you.. and here I was, thinking I'm not the luckiest one out there when it comes to HRT and stuff :) I consider myself highly blessed and lucky now, for being allowed HRT as an emigrant, without NHS' throughought diagnosis.

I must admit i got laser hair removal on the nhs, to get funding the circumstances have to be exception in relation to possible heath risks of not getting it, basically unless you have a life times worth of interactions with mental heath services you don't have much of a chance, the only way of getting it is by showing that not geting it is a genuine suicide risk.  :-\

I think this is it? http://www.cliniq.org.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/nhsenglandinterimgenderprotocolcpag12072013.pdf

I've been reading it through myself, I am honestly dreading the thought of having to ask the NHS for anything, especially seeing the horror stories of plain neglect/forced RLE humiliation.

Do they actually follow these new guidelines? They say they're now not supposed to require RLE before HRT, but knowing the NHS they'll be quick to throw anything out they don't like the sound of.

They can prescribe hrt very quickly if they think the patient is suitable, i think people often forget this, its if THEY think you are suitable, so do what they say.

Quote from: Izla on March 26, 2014, 03:39:33 PM
I've been reading it through myself, I am honestly dreading the thought of having to ask the NHS for anything, especially seeing the horror stories of plain neglect/forced RLE humiliation.

Do they actually follow these new guidelines? They say they're now not supposed to require RLE before HRT, but knowing the NHS they'll be quick to throw anything out they don't like the sound of.

Thanks for the link.
Regarding forced RLE, under the old rules I was denied HRT due to not being able to wear make-up & since I got made redundant I don't have the option of going private for electrolysis, at my first GIC appointment after the new rules came in I was given HRT so you don't have to worry about that, the GIC's follow the new rules.

The problem in this case isn't the GIC's but the petty bereaucrates who have decided that the new rules say you have to have RLE & GRS to be eligible for electro funding even though the rules clearly state that social transitioning is NOT a requirement for electrolysis.
It feels like they've made this up in the hope that i'll give up & save them a few pennies, ain't gonna happen, i'll fight them all the way!!

Quote from: Jayne on March 26, 2014, 04:10:37 PM
Thanks for the link.
Regarding forced RLE, under the old rules I was denied HRT due to not being able to wear make-up & since I got made redundant I don't have the option of going private for electrolysis, at my first GIC appointment after the new rules came in I was given HRT so you don't have to worry about that, the GIC's follow the new rules.

The problem in this case isn't the GIC's but the petty bereaucrates who have decided that the new rules say you have to have RLE & GRS to be eligible for electro funding even though the rules clearly state that social transitioning is NOT a requirement for electrolysis.
It feels like they've made this up in the hope that i'll give up & save them a few pennies, ain't gonna happen, i'll fight them all the way!!

It's great when the rules are in writing

Quote from: Jayne on March 26, 2014, 05:39:21 AM
Does anyone on here have a link to the new NHS guidelines?
I need to go through this document with a fine toothed comb, if they keep messing me around like this then i'll consider legal action to force them to let me have what I should be entitled to, fuming doesn't even come close to describing the mood i'm in right now

Is this what you're looking for?  http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/files/pdfversion/CR181.pdf (http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/files/pdfversion/CR181.pdf)

I've managed to get an endo appointment next month by pointing out the section about stopping people self medding by getting them on a monitored regime ASAP (in this this ASAP means months of me printing this, highlighting relevant bits and going down and moaning at my GP...)

Quote from: Izla on March 26, 2014, 03:39:33 PM
Do they actually follow these new guidelines? They say they're now not supposed to require RLE before HRT, but knowing the NHS they'll be quick to throw anything out they don't like the sound of.

When I provided my GP with a copy of this document she took it away to discuss the rest of the practice, their verdict was that these are guidelines not firm rules and refused to help provide any assistance beyond the referral to Leeds GIC.  It's taken a very sympathetic doctor to agree to refer me straight to an endo (come on April 17th!!!) while waiting for the GIC appointment (should be about 18 months after initially asking for help...NHS sucks)

The NHS is a bureaucratic organisation and the bureaucrats have little time for mere mortals, but if you get your facts organised then they tend to back off rather quickly.

The facial hair removal (in England, but very similar to Scotland) is in this document (see appendix 4)

http://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/int-gend-proto.pdf

That has been updated slightly, but is essentially unchanged. It makes no mention about hormones, make-up or RLE other than MTF people should be given hair removal to assist with their RLE. The statement that will be of particular interest is "It is recommended that facial hair removal should commence prior to social gender roletransition, as the beard must grow to visible lengths to be removed."

These are indeed guidelines for treatment but it would be a very foolish doctor that ignores them. If they do ignore them then ask the Practice Manager to forward the guidelines to their Medical Defence Union and ask if they would defend the Practice for refusal to treat. Asking questions like that often produces results if you ask politely (do not threaten or shout).

Transitioning on the NHS is actually quite straightforward as long as you are prepared to document everything, follow up on appointments, research what medications you are entitled to and so on. Knowledgeable patients are rarely bothered by awkward medical staff. Anyone who expects the NHS to ride in, sweep them off their feet and carry them from the start to the finish is in for a big shock. Most medical staff have never seen a trans-person and are utterly clueless.

My technique is to never leave the building without my next appointment printed out and handed to me and filed in my transition folder in front of the appointments clerk. I never go to a meeting without my transition folder and I can look up any details at any time and give them the answer without going away to find it. They soon get the idea that you know what you are entitled to. Ask staff for direct email addresses and bypass the admin bureaucrats as much as possible. I have emails for all my clinicians in the GIC and my GP staff know I know my stuff and I get no trouble.

My transition is far, far, far too important to leave up to admin people and suchlike to whom I am just another patient in an area of practice about which they may know little. I run my transition and let them know, politely, what I want done and I usually get it. I encourage everyone I meet in transition to do the same - be your own "Transition Manager" and use the NHS as a resource pool.

How long has each of you waited for an appointment at GIC from the moment of speaking about your *issues* at your local GP? A little timeline of everyone of you would be helpful!

Quote from: crowcrow223 on April 27, 2014, 12:49:02 PM
How long has each of you waited for an appointment at GIC from the moment of speaking about your *issues* at your local GP? A little timeline of everyone of you would be helpful!

It'll be 19 months by the time I see the GIC in November :(

I was referred to Charing Cross hospital in October 1989.I got my first appointment in May 1991

As someone who's only option for the foreseeable future will be to try and transition on the NHS, these stories are all very worrying. And these waiting times just to be seen at a GIC really are ridiculous :(

Is being referred to a GIC really the only way to transition on the NHS, is there no alternative route? Could a therapist or psychiatrist not attached to a GIC give a recommendation or referral for hormones? (Pardon me if any of this is particularly ignorant.)

I asked for a referral from my gp to a gic on October 1st.  I spoke to a mental health worker at the end of January. 

I have my first psychiatrist appointment on Wednesday.

An okay from him and my gp will refer me to the GIC.

Thankfully I knew the NHS would be ->-bleeped-<- and I am self medding.  Best decision I ever made. If I wasn't on hrt now I'd be crawling the walls. 

I spoke to my GP in July (2012), saw yhe community mental health team the following September,  gender specialist in February (2013), second appointment with specialist in May, endocrinologist in August when I got my prescription. I had been self-medding which may or may not have sped things up. Either way I am sure I wouldn't recommend it.

Rosie

Ah... socialized medicine in a world of limited resources.

We have a private sector too.

I know where I would rather live if private was unaffordable.

At the mercy of bureaucrats and accountants?

Quote from: JamesG on April 27, 2014, 08:18:18 PM
At the mercy of bureaucrats and accountants?

Tsk, tsk. Let us not reopen that debate. We have different ways of running our health care systems and that is all there is to it. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages so there is little point arguing over which is 'best'. A better use of that energy might be to help people struggling with the shortfalls of whichever one they have to deal with.

Rosie

Quote from: JamesG on April 27, 2014, 06:45:25 PM
Ah... socialized medicine in a world of limited resources.

Indeed. You have no idea how awful it is to transition at no cost. We can even go private and pay for an informed consent approach just like the USA.

Have you any idea how awful it is to be able to choose?

::)

Unfortunately for many the "choice" to go private is a no-go.
Since the minimum wage was introduced the average wages for normal people has dropped whilst the price of living keeps rising, before the minimum wage I could easily earn £10 an hour as a forklift driver but forklift driving is now a minimum wage job.
In my last job over half of my take home earnings was just my rent, by the time you pay for bills & food you are lucky to have anything left for transitioning.

When I came out I intended to put my limited finances into going private wherever possible, I even gave up my flat & moved into a bedsit to free up extra cash. Then I was made redundant & no matter what employment law says there will always be a more suitable applicant when you are mid transition, all a potential employer will think about on an interview is how much time will this person need off of work for appointments, surgery & recovery time.

My only choice is to transition on the NHS or give up my transition until i'm employed, this would mean going back into hiding & changing my name back to my old male name, keeping being trans a secret almost killed me due to the depression so it's not much of a choice is it?

Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on April 28, 2014, 01:07:12 AM
Each has its own advantages and disadvantages so there is little point arguing over which is 'best'. A better use of that energy might be to help people struggling with the shortfalls of whichever one they have to deal with.

More like "least worst",  but I agree about working around the machinery...

Quote from: provizora4 on April 28, 2014, 01:19:52 AM
Indeed. You have no idea how awful it is to transition at no cost.

You really think it has "no cost"?

Quote from: JamesG on April 27, 2014, 06:45:25 PM
Ah... socialized medicine in a world of limited resources.

I agree, it's just awful that we don't let people die of cancer because of a far-fetched get-out clause in their insurance, their families watching them literally waste away at home. Totally awful that us Europeans with our communist healthcare systems don't let people die of preventable disease because they can't pay, and that in our case we have the option of the state paying for entirety of our transitions (with no "co-pay" or "deductibles" or whatever) on the condition they give priority to people with more urgent problems like cancer, and if we don't like waiting, we can choose to, er, go private and pay ourselves, and then hop back into the state system if we want! I paid to get a diagnosis more quickly (2 months as opposed to 2 years at most, perhaps), and then moved back into the NHS, which now covers my hormones, and, because I satisfy a single low-income condition, I don't even have to pay the prescription charge (of about $10 for a prescription, no matter what it constitutes or how much the NHS pays for it)! The state is literally paying every penny of the cost of my HRT, and it's truly awful!

Quote from: JamesG on April 28, 2014, 08:13:59 AM
You really think it has "no cost"?

No, that's true, we're probably paying about £1 in tax a year each that gets spent on everyone's TG/TS related health cost combined. Sure doesn't represent value for money. And it's not like that because the NHS can buy things like hormones in huge quantities, it doesn't make a huge cost saving.

Defensive eh?

Quote from: JamesG on April 28, 2014, 08:33:09 AM
Defensive eh?

Yeah... why not?

It is not a perfect system by any means but many, many people transition successfully using it and it is not mandatory. If you want to use insurance to pay for your transition then you can do so. I just get annoyed when a system that works well enough for most people gets knocked by people who will never use the system. You will only hear complaints, never about successes and successes outweigh failures many times over. I know many transwomen and I know of only two whose transitions have been less good than others. I know several dozen who have had success.

I pay £15 ($24) every 3 months for medications including a GnRH analogue that would cost me £250 a shot privately and is far more effective than Spiro/Cypro. I have never seen a bill from a therapist or psychologist. My $16,000 (£10,000) SRS is free but I have to wait a bit. Fair enough. People going to Brassard or Suporn have to wait too. I can pay if I do not want to wait and the same surgeon will do the operation in the same hospital.

The doctors and nurses know their stuff, but the admin people are not always the best. So yeah - it's hell.

Quote from: Jayne on April 28, 2014, 07:27:56 AM
Unfortunately for many the "choice" to go private is a no-go.
....
My only choice is to transition on the NHS or give up my transition until i'm employed, this would mean going back into hiding & changing my name back to my old male name, keeping being trans a secret almost killed me due to the depression so it's not much of a choice is it?

It is a better choice than many get in the US or Canada where there is only self-med or go private. I agree it is not perfect and I am fighting the electroylsis battle with them just like you are. Given the choice, I will stick with the NHS.

Quote from: provizora4 on April 28, 2014, 09:06:09 AM
Yeah... why not?

Because it requires the willful ignorance of economics.

Anyway, I'll respect other's desire to not turn this into a politics thread and stop twisting your tail.

Quote from: NIP on April 28, 2014, 08:19:23 AM
The state is literally paying every penny of the cost of my HRT, and it's truly awful!

I've been paying tax & NI for 20yrs to support "the state", i've rarely been unemployed & the few times I have been out of work i've supported myself with whatever agency work I can get rather than claim benifits.
Since being made redundant i've had to swallow my pride & at the age of 38 i've had to admit defeat & claim benifits so I feel justified in saying that after supporting the state for 20yrs it's about time I got something back.

Often when a topic comes up about problems transitioning on the NHS people from overseas decide to jump in with the attitude that we should just think ourselves lucky we have "free" transitions.

Quote from: JamesG on April 28, 2014, 09:19:15 AM
Because it requires the willful ignorance of economics.

We pay for our NHS with taxes & NI contributions just as you pay with insurance, the NHS is not "free" there is just no charge at the point of services being delivered, the charge comes every week/month when a large chunk of our wages is taken away. It would appear that you have misunderstood the economics of the UK's NHS funding.
As we pay for the NHS we have every right to complain when the NHS fails us so would people please keep this in mind.

Also, 2 - 3 years ago my local health authority decided to write off an estimated £1.3 million owed by "health tourists" so when they say they that the NHS is strapped for funds I feel completely justified in being just a little bit miffed when the healthcare i've spent a lifetime paying for lets me down!

^ this.  It'd paid but monthly like insurance from pay cheques.

Quote from: Jayne on April 28, 2014, 09:55:52 AM
I've been paying tax & NI for 20yrs to support "the state", i've rarely been unemployed & the few times I have been out of work i've supported myself with whatever agency work I can get rather than claim benifits.
Since being made redundant i've had to swallow my pride & at the age of 38 i've had to admit defeat & claim benifits so I feel justified in saying that after supporting the state for 20yrs it's about time I got something back.

My statement was meant sarcastically, so I'm sorry if you took it seriously and were offended. Alternatively, if my being at present a net recipient rather than benefactor of the state offends you, I'd point out that you know absolutely nothing about me and my life, and why this is the case. I've also paid tax, and no doubt will pay plenty more in the future. I'm sure by my death I'll be a net benefactor for the UK again. And that's the way I'd want it to be. But, I see nothing wrong with being a net recipient.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Though I'll point out for JamesG's sake that this latter sentiment is not one widely held in the UK, and probably the whole of EU, except perhaps a few declining (but stabilising) Scandinavian cases.

I'd also point out to JamesG that the US' style of healthcare is the exception, rather than the rule, in first-world medicine. Our "willful ignorance of economics" seems to work out pretty well, you know, in practice. Chances are you'll be put in a position sometime in your life when you'll wish for just a bit of socialised medicine.

Doubtful.

I spoke today with one lady from my local surgery, she said that the appointment should be scheduled within 18 weeks.. ;x that's quite a lot.. Anyway, I'm quite patient lol :)

Thanks for all the reponses girls :D

Quote from: NIP on April 28, 2014, 10:57:32 AM
My statement was meant sarcastically, so I'm sorry if you took it seriously and were offended.

As you may have noticed from my comments I am possibly over touchy about the subject of our "free" healthcare so no apology needed.
I often jump up & down when people say I should just be gratefull no matter how bad the service can be for transitioning, this could be because my ex used this argument to play mind games with me whilst I was battling the NHS under the old guidelines.

I paid 20 years National Insurance contributions so I think I've paid my bit for GRS on the NHS.Anyone got a problem keep it to yourself especially knowalls who don't even live here!

Quote from: Jayne on April 28, 2014, 11:44:06 AM
As you may have noticed from my comments I am possibly over touchy about the subject of our "free" healthcare so no apology needed.
I often jump up & down when people say I should just be gratefull no matter how bad the service can be for transitioning, this could be because my ex used this argument to play mind games with me whilst I was battling the NHS under the old guidelines.

I understand completely, particularly with the changing sentiment in the UK re: "benefits scroungers". My personal philosophy is socalist, so there's no way I'm going to complain about someone relying on a system put there to help them. And the sad reality is so many people don't even take advantage of the social benefits availible to them because they are afraid or put off by any social stigma. Our government never talks about the huge amount of un-claimed and under-claimed (£10s of billions - https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/income-related-benefits-estimates-of-take-up--2 (https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/income-related-benefits-estimates-of-take-up--2)) because it doesn't fit their rhetoric.

My main downside with the NHS is speed.  I felt a real urgency to get on hrt.  I am coming up to 30 and to be told I'd be waiting till I was 32 for hormones felt like a prison sentence.
Self medding and it's associated dangers was better for me then spending 2 years behind proverbial bars.

Quote from: f_Anna_tastic on April 28, 2014, 03:44:58 PM
My main downside with the NHS is speed.  I felt a real urgency to get on hrt.  I am coming up to 30 and to be told I'd be waiting till I was 32 for hormones felt like a prison sentence.
Self medding and it's associated dangers was better for me then spending 2 years behind proverbial bars.

I hear your frustration as it took roughly 2 1/2yrs for me to get HRT started, i'm speeding towards 40 & it feels like a big clock is ticking.
I'm not trying to patronise you with this next comment as you're old enough to know the risks but please be carefull with self medding, under the new guidelines if you are self prescribing then they should try to get you onto a proper regime of medication monitored by a Dr ASAP.
This new guideline is there for the safety of patients who are self prescribing which I understand but the guideline runs the risk of giving people a green light to self med to speed up the process, it's a bit of a double edged sword.

Quote from: NIP on April 28, 2014, 02:46:12 PM
I understand completely, particularly with the changing sentiment in the UK re: "benefits scroungers".

For me it isn't so much a changing social sentiment, it's just part of my strict (but loving) upbringing. My parents drilled it into me that you MUST work to be a productive member of society & anything else means you're a failure.

Quote from: Jayne on April 28, 2014, 04:01:08 PM
I'm not trying to patronise you with this next comment as you're old enough to know the risks but please be carefull with self medding, under the new guidelines if you are self prescribing then they should try to get you onto a proper regime of medication monitored by a Dr ASAP.
This new guideline is there for the safety of patients who are self prescribing which I understand but the guideline runs the risk of giving people a green light to self med to speed up the process, it's a bit of a double edged sword.

I'll attest to this, I recently had my first endo appointment, and was told to let them know if I am going to run out before I go back for a 2nd appointment and they will arrange a prescription.  I didn't have any luck getting a prescription from my GP, but they were ok with referring me straight to an endo.

Quote from: Jayne on April 28, 2014, 04:01:08 PM
I'm not trying to patronise you with this next comment as you're old enough to know the risks but please be carefull with self medding, under the new guidelines if you are self prescribing then they should try to get you onto a proper regime of medication monitored by a Dr ASAP.
This new guideline is there for the safety of patients who are self prescribing which I understand but the guideline runs the risk of giving people a green light to self med to speed up the process, it's a bit of a double edged sword.

Thank you,
I will take a look and see.

My GP is aware I'm self medding and is monitoring my blood levels. So I'm trying to be as safe as I can.

I'll keep pushing for a referral to an endocrinologist.

Pah ! Transitioning in the beginning, in it's entirety, is a nightmare. Then it starts to get better. It is not just the NHS it is all aspects of the process. The NHS simply provides the drugs and the other medial guff. There are other things to do while we wait. We all have our systems, and I have been known to complain a lot about ours (NHS) but, really, I bet the girls over in the colonies  ;) get some issues with their health systems too.

Wow, what a headache. Good thing I left the UK and moved to the US.

Quote from: Rainbow Brite on April 28, 2014, 08:13:29 PM
Wow, what a headache. Good thing I left the UK and moved to the US.

Seconded.

Rosie

Quote from: Jayne on April 28, 2014, 04:09:49 PM
My parents drilled it into me that you MUST work to be a productive member of society & anything else means you're a failure.

Hmmm, suddenly I'm hearing Pink Floyd music in mah hed  ;)

Honestly, I feel for you all, being over there, and the heartache you must go thru to finally fix what is wrong with us.. but take heart, with our new OhBrotherCare, we'll be in the same boat as the UK & Canada.. 

Quote from: Rainbow Brite on April 28, 2014, 08:13:29 PM
Wow, what a headache. Good thing I left the UK and moved to the US.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/life-expectancy-and-health-care-spending/ (http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/life-expectancy-and-health-care-spending/)

Quote from: Paula Christine on April 29, 2014, 09:02:32 AM
Honestly, I feel for you all, being over there, and the heartache you must go thru to finally fix what is wrong with us.. but take heart, with our new OhBrotherCare, we'll be in the same boat as the UK & Canada..

If your new version of the NHS is set up with the right rules from the beginning then it could make transitioning easier, unfortunately with the amount of news I see from the US with constant & very vocal opposition to any new legislation to make life easier for transpeople from the right wingers it has the very real potential to make transitioning harder.
I assume that you'll still have medical care paid for by insurance when your NHS is up & running but from some of the posts i've read over the years that route to transition seems to bring up plenty of headaches & heartache.

I feel for those here in the US that have been "kicked to the curb" by their insurance plans and companies because of this new socialized medicine plan our "king" wants.  I'm fortunate enough that my company has a good, stable plan that , tho we pay for thru our payroll deductions, hadn't had rates skyrocket(yet).  HRT is covered but surgeries are not, so its... "I can feel better and sort of look better, but not remove and replace that which causes us the most pain".
And the company I work for was named best trans*friendly and supportive in the industry. So unless I really screw up doing something, my job and being out(whenever that is) is safe.  My boss and others in the office are totally supportive also.. and hes a good friend.  I trained him on his current plane ..

If the US continues the way its headed, most of the private sector employees will be left out in the cold because there are no penalties for insurance companies dropping their insured. And -then- the employees will be fined for not having coverage.  But no one will cover them..

Quote from: Paula Christine on April 30, 2014, 10:48:50 AM
I feel for those here in the US that have been "kicked to the curb" by their insurance plans and companies because of this new socialized medicine plan our "king" wants.  I'm fortunate enough that my company has a good, stable plan that , tho we pay for thru our payroll deductions, hadn't had rates skyrocket(yet).  HRT is covered but surgeries are not, so its... "I can feel better and sort of look better, but not remove and replace that which causes us the most pain".
And the company I work for was named best trans*friendly and supportive in the industry. So unless I really screw up doing something, my job and being out(whenever that is) is safe.  My boss and others in the office are totally supportive also.. and hes a good friend.  I trained him on his current plane ..

If the US continues the way its headed, most of the private sector employees will be left out in the cold because there are no penalties for insurance companies dropping their insured. And -then- the employees will be fined for not having coverage.  But no one will cover them..

Wow, sounds like a great system you have over here. I mean, all you have to be here to be guaranteed medical care (whether you paid any tax towards it or not, and you'll never see a bill for medical care that isn't a prescription, and only if you can afford to pay it) - that's significantly better than yours in the US mind you, check the life expectancy figures, the EU is well ahead with about a third of the spending per capita - is to be an EU citizen. What Obama wants to do has absolutely nothing in common with the NHS. Every single person living and working in the UK that pays tax collectively contributes to the collective health costs of all. When we need help, we turn up and ask for it - without paying anything out of pocket. Here, someone earning, say, the equivalent of $30,000 might be spending the equivalent of $300 in tax towards the NHS that year (how much do you spend on your insurance premiums - as a health person that's never needed medcial help, that is?) - whether they don't need the help - or whether they need help costing the NHS $100,000. Sometimes, because we have a right wing political sphere at the moment, we have to wait for that help because everyone wants the NHS's services, they just don't want to pay the tax to pay for it. I have a knee reconstruction once that cost the NHS about $50,000 - $60,000. You know what I had to do to get it? Need it, and wait six months. And you know what, the doctors wanted me to have it. And not because they got paid more for doing it. Nope, they were salaried and they would have got the same had they done nothing at all. They wanted me to have it because it improved my quality of life. That's what motivates the NHS. Empathy, not "rational self-interest". Even if your system produced results (it obviously doesn't, see my last post), I'd rather have the "socalized medicine" because I wouldn't feel like a stack of cash to the doctor eyeing me gleefully for the fat paycheck I represented.

NIP, lovely, it is really not fair to go in to any depth on the differences in medical coverage between the US and the EU. Both are the results of the dominant cultural values in place in their respective areas and reflect those values. I prefer European values but then again I am European. Someone from the US may prefer US values and that's all tidy.  There are some horrible effects inherent in both systems (I know people on both sides of the pond who feel frustrated,  ignored and belittled by their respective systems) so I do feel that on Susan's we are better off helping people running up against the rough edges of whatever system they have to deal with rather than getting involved in arguments about whose system is least bad. The Net has plenty of other places to go if you want to argue politics.

Rosie

I agree, not really the topic folder for this, guess it comes down to pay more into the system (US), get fixed sooner, or pay a little into the system(NHS), and wait longer, both have pluses and minuses.. I hope the caring from providers is equal.

Quote from: Paula Christine on April 30, 2014, 02:10:48 PM
I agree, not really the topic folder for this, guess it comes down to pay more into the system (US), get fixed sooner, or pay a little into the system(NHS), and wait longer, both have pluses and minuses.. I hope the caring from providers is equal.

*Points at the 'muricans who started this discussion.*

Also, we have our cake and we eat it too. We have private and public sector.
Makes a change to agree with you NIP though of course your implication that we only have waiting times because of a "right wing political sphere" is hilarious. As if there were not waiting times when labour was in charge. Other than that though , good posts and interesting graph.

Quote from: Seras on April 30, 2014, 07:55:04 PM

*Points at the 'muricans who started this discussion.*

Also, we have our cake and we eat it too. We have private and public sector.
Makes a change to agree with you NIP though of course your implication that we only have waiting times because of a "right wing political sphere" is hilarious. As if there were not waiting times when labour was in charge. Other than that though , good posts and interesting graph.

Oh, left-wing labour in power died 1979. ;) Then we got Tony! But I'm not against "waiting times" in principle. They can be a matter of coordination, and not money. Just when they become quite clearly excessive, especially in the areas apparently less important to the healthcare provider. And they become excessive when people don't want to pay enough for the staff, equipment, and premises to be at sufficient levels that they aren't a major bottleneck. People aren't becoming more ill over time - it's actually the opposite - we're just willling to spend less and less over time to treat the same illnesses, and even while vastly overestimating the true cost while holding this view (the UK state spends more on pensions that healthcare). And when it comes to investing in the healthcare breakthroughs of the future, we're very reluctant. We still have cancers that are are a 97% chance death sentence, for instance.