Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Ladies, I'm fairly new to the scene, and as I move forward down this road (wherever it may take me), I'm trying to educate myself about certain basics. Long story short, here's my question: what's the real diff between electrolysis and Lazer removal, regarding effectiveness, cost, etc?

Cheers,
Tegan

In my experience, cost is comparable.

Electrolysis:
* Never comes back
* Works on any color hair
* Feels like frequent needle pricks
* Requires a few days hair growth before appointments.
* Works on one hair at a time, so takes a lot of appointments.
* Leaves little red bumps in its wake for a few days.

Laser:
* Works on your entire face, so more economical
* Only works on dark hair
* Feels like a momentary searing heat
* Leaves red blotchy areas for a few hours
* Some say hair will eventually return

I used laser first and am now in electrolysis to clean up the white hairs. I'm glad I did it that way.

What color is your hair and skin? If you have dark hair and a light complexion then laser should work pretty well for you.

If you are like me however and have blonde and red hairs then electrolysis will get better results. (Also if you have dark skin). Both methods are expensive and painful. I don't personally know how laser compares but electrolysis is very painful and you have to endure it for longer periods given that the probe only zaps one follicle at a time.

A good Electrologist can do about 600 hairs an hour. My first Electrologist charged $60/hr and my current one charges $40. Expect to spend at least 100-200 hours getting a beard completely cleared.

Quote from: Alaia on March 26, 2014, 06:41:44 PM
What color is your hair and skin? If you have dark hair and a light complexion then laser should work pretty well for you.

What is the cost of the laser treatment? I have dark hair... Well had... Getting a little gray now... LOL

If you're thinking about laser, try looking for groupons. I found a place that has a deal for 6 face sessions for $100.

Yeah, I'm always seeing groupon deals for laser. I have no idea how cost effective it is overall though. I'm only well informed on electro.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 26, 2014, 06:31:37 PM


I used laser first and am now in electrolysis to clean up the white hairs. I'm glad I did it that way.

Thanks, everyone. I think that answers my question. I am light-complected with black hair, with perhaps a few facial hairs gone gray, so I think this plan seems to be the best.

However, does anybody have anything to say about home electrolysis kits? I'm kind of curious about those.

Tegan

For your face I would strongly recommend you leave it to a professional. You don't want to end up scarring or with pock marks.

Point taken. Thank you. :-)

-Teg

Quote from: EmilyGlass on March 26, 2014, 07:30:58 PM
If you're thinking about laser, try looking for groupons. I found a place that has a deal for 6 face sessions for $100.

do not get discount lazer hair removal...

Quote from: jebee on March 27, 2014, 10:18:53 AM
do not get discount lazer hair removal...

Jebee, would there really be that much of a difference? It's not like we're talking about doing it at the swapmeet. What would the concern be with pursuing a deal?

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on March 27, 2014, 04:40:40 AM
But I can definitely suggest home laser removal kit - from all those on the market Tria 4 x and Tria Precision are the best ones.

Emily, would you use that thing on your face, or only other spots? You have one? Can you tell me a bit about it? Thank you.

-Teg

Quote from: Tegan on March 27, 2014, 11:28:53 AM
Jebee, would there really be that much of a difference? It's not like we're talking about doing it at the swapmeet. What would the concern be with pursuing a deal?

youre going to let a unqualified person use a lazer capable of causing substantial and permanent damage to you body give it a go?? I got mine through the NHS its cost them over 5000 pounds, think about it. You get what you pay for in this life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9HRV9p3FMk

Alright, point taken, I suppose. To my knowledge in order to perform this procedure, the clinicians NEED to be certified. But yes, point taken, and thanks for looking out.  I'll do my research before I go to anyone.

-Teg

Okay, I watched the video. Point DEFINITELY taken. Thank you, Jebee.
Teg

Quote from: Tegan on March 26, 2014, 08:03:54 PM
...
However, does anybody have anything to say about home electrolysis kits? I'm kind of curious about those.

Hi Tegan,
Skip the home electrolysis kits, the don't really work, so you are really just plucking the hairs, causing damage under the skin.
-Cindi

Thanks, Em. I'll take look.

Teg

That's sweet of you, Em. I might do just that as I look into all options further. Thanks.
  :)
-Teg

Quote from: Alaia on March 26, 2014, 06:41:44 PM
A good Electrologist can do about 600 hairs an hour. My first Electrologist charged $60/hr and my current one charges $40. Expect to spend at least 100-200 hours getting a beard completely cleared.

Hi Alaia,

I had my first electrolysis session this morning.  I counted 19 seconds between each cycle of pain.  It might be because she had to reduce the settings for my very low tolerance for pain.  This sounds like about 200 hairs/hour rather than the 600 you mentioned.  The cost was $38 for 35 mins, with $60/hour going forward.  Next session booked for Thursday afternoon.

Am I overpaying ?  (I live in Philly.  Electrologist is in a (nice) suburb just north of Philly.)

Or is it normal for the first session (or two) to appear relatively slow as the electrologist gets used to how much pain I can tolerate & which settings work best for my face/neck.

btw:  I did ask her to start with my neck, since that is the one area I really dislike shaving.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

Tessa

There's nothing wrong with groupon deals don't be discouraged from using them.

Many of the packages are offered by decent businesses. Groupon simply gives you the option of a deal for otherwise normally regularly priced Laser sessions that's all. If anyone has any worries just go onto yelp and research the clinics/spas of your choice before paying for the deal. Go in for a consult and check out the places for yourself. It's a great way to save money while getting the service that you need.

Quote from: Autumn on March 26, 2014, 07:30:58 PM
If you're thinking about laser, try looking for groupons. I found a place that has a deal for 6 face sessions for $100.

Wow it is so cheap in California here in south aus I just paid for 4 sessions and it cost me $720

Quote from: TessaMarie on July 08, 2014, 12:18:16 AM
Hi Alaia,

I had my first electrolysis session this morning.  I counted 19 seconds between each cycle of pain.  It might be because she had to reduce the settings for my very low tolerance for pain.  This sounds like about 200 hairs/hour rather than the 600 you mentioned.  The cost was $38 for 35 mins, with $60/hour going forward.  Next session booked for Thursday afternoon.

Am I overpaying ?  (I live in Philly.  Electrologist is in a (nice) suburb just north of Philly.)

Or is it normal for the first session (or two) to appear relatively slow as the electrologist gets used to how much pain I can tolerate & which settings work best for my face/neck.

btw:  I did ask her to start with my neck, since that is the one area I really dislike shaving.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

Tessa

Hi Tessa,

I do the electrolysis thing too.  Mine charges $100/hr but I buy blocks of time from her and get a discount so it works out to about $85/hr.  It is expensive but she usually averages around 700 zaps in an hour.  I swear sometimes it feels like a sewing machine on my face when she really gets going!

My first few sessions were a little experimental finding the best needles and intensity setting for my face.  She was still pretty quick even then.  For me it was getting those things right to minimize after effects.  Redness, swelling etc....

Hope this helps!

I did the laser thing for about 18 months. It got rid of my dark hair and helped enormously with my confidence about my presentation. And since lot of presentation is about confidence, it was a great feedback loop. But being older, I have a lot of gray and blonde hairs on my face. With the laser and a good shave, they're not noticeable. But as I'm transitioning, I want them to all be gone, so I've started electrolysis. Mine charges about $75/hour (Wilmington Delaware region south of Philly). She does Blend. I've never counted how many zaps in an hour. I get from 1-2 hours a week. I think I'm on week 5 for just my upper lip. Most of it is gone but there are still a few stragglers. And we're both sure there are a bunch sleeping. Next week it's the cheeks and the chin. That will be a down payment on her next car :)

I've been doing electrolysis for almost a year, averaging two hours a week and am about half done.  So at $60USD per hour, I'll have about $12,000 into a smooth face before I'm finished.  Ka Ching!  This is easily the most expensive pre-op part of transition.  The sad part is there are lots of FTM guys who would love to grow a beard --so it goes, sigh.

Topical lidocaine helps a lot with the pain. 

It really is kind of annoying, of the 22,000 or so beard hairs on an average face, about half are in rest phase at any given time and since the whole cycle is several years in duration, new zapping targets will appear for the next couple of years.  It is so annoying to clear a section (particularly the upper lip which for some reason has more hair per sq mm than is even reasonable)  only to have it repopulate itself a few weeks later.  For me about the third clearing is getting pretty close to a charm.

In any case, I'm hoping to get to go out in the boat I'm buying for my electrolysist. ;)

Happy Electrical Engineering,

Julie

Looks like you already have answers from others so I'll say that I suggest getting professional laser on your face and then get the Silk'n Sensepil device for your body. This device doesn't work well on my face but definitely gives me results on my body hair and saves you money, not to mention you have privacy.

Its to bad we can't trade our penis and facial hair for boobs and a vagina.

Quote from: JulieBlair on July 08, 2014, 10:34:59 AM
I've been doing electrolysis for almost a year, averaging two hours a week and am about half done.  So at $60USD per hour, I'll have about $12,000 into a smooth face before I'm finished.  Ka Ching!  This is easily the most expensive pre-op part of transition.  The sad part is there are lots of FTM guys who would love to grow a beard --so it goes, sigh.

Topical lidocaine helps a lot with the pain. 

It really is kind of annoying, of the 22,000 or so beard hairs on an average face, about half are in rest phase at any given time and since the whole cycle is several years in duration, new zapping targets will appear for the next couple of years.  It is so annoying to clear a section (particularly the upper lip which for some reason has more hair per sq mm than is even reasonable)  only to have it repopulate itself a few weeks later.  For me about the third clearing is getting pretty close to a charm.

In any case, I'm hoping to get to go out in the boat I'm buying for my electrolysist. ;)

Happy Electrical Engineering,

Julie

Quote from: Urban Christina on July 08, 2014, 09:19:37 PM
Looks like you already have answers from others so I'll say that I suggest getting professional laser on your face and then get the Silk'n Sensepil device for your body. This device doesn't work well on my face but definitely gives me results on my body hair and saves you money, not to mention you have privacy.

Christina, are you happy with the Silk'n Sensepil? I'm thinking of the Flash n Go. Unlimited flashes for $100. Of course, it's only a bargain if it's effective.

Does anybody have any experience with these products?

http://www.silkn.com/sensepil/

An order made today would save $45 overall. Thoughts?

-Tegs

Body, yes. Face, no. Your facial hairs are buried deeper than the ones in your body so get professional for face then an IPL device like the Flash -n- go or Sensepil. Sensepil has a bigger window than the Flash -n-go. Either device works for body along with patience.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on July 08, 2014, 09:29:43 PM
Its to bad we can't trade our penis and facial hair for boobs and a vagina.

Ah-Ha!-wouldn't we all!, lol!!

Something else to take into consideration: facial hair is the most difficult to remove on the body. As Christina says they're buried deeper and much worse, at the time of your treatments up to 64% of the facial hair you have is in the resting phase, which can take several years before entering the growth phase again. This is why many feel the hairs come back after laser. They really aren't coming back, what they're seeing are the ones that were resting during the two years they were being treated entering their growth phase. I've done a lot of research on laser and IPL hair removal because I'm on a fixed income and must remove as much facial hair as I can myself before booking electro to get rid of the grays my lasers and IPL are ineffective on. So far over the last two or so years I've cleared all the dark hair and about 30% of the gray's effectively.

Ally

Here in Spain electrolysis has virtually disappeared in favour of laser, so it's quite expensive. 

I am paying around €75 for a 30-minute electrolysis session, and I'd say I am getting around 250 zaps per hour.

Oh well....

What's the best way to remove body hair? Laser? Is this laser called just laser? Thanks

Quote from: crowcrow223 on July 09, 2014, 03:24:29 AM
What's the best way to remove body hair? Laser? Is this laser called just laser? Thanks

If your body hair is dark and your skin is light, then laser is definitely good for your body hair.  I'm having the pubic region done and I've had exceptionally good results.  After one time I've seen a massive reduction in hair.  On my face as well, though I suspect that's not common.

If you have a full fledged beard vs just a couple of days of not shaving, does this affect it?

Quote from: Allyda on July 09, 2014, 12:48:19 AM
Ah-Ha!-wouldn't we all!, lol!!

Something else to take into consideration: facial hair is the most difficult to remove on the body. As Christina says they're buried deeper and much worse, at the time of your treatments up to 64% of the facial hair you have is in the resting phase, which can take several years before entering the growth phase again. This is why many feel the hairs come back after laser. They really aren't coming back, what they're seeing are the ones that were resting during the two years they were being treated entering their growth phase. I've done a lot of research on laser and IPL hair removal because I'm on a fixed income and must remove as much facial hair as I can myself before booking electro to get rid of the grays my lasers and IPL are ineffective on. So far over the last two or so years I've cleared all the dark hair and about 30% of the gray's effectively.

Ally

Quote from: awilliams1701 on July 09, 2014, 07:33:47 PM
If you have a full fledged beard vs just a couple of days of not shaving, does this affect it?

The more facial hair you have, the more treatments you'll need over a 2 to 3 year period to clear it all due to about 64-65% of it being either in the shedding, or resting phase. Lasers are only effective on hair while it's in the growth phase. Which for beard hair = about 30% total out of what you have completely.

Facial hair is nature's cruel joke.

Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: AnnaCannibal on July 09, 2014, 09:46:29 AM
If your body hair is dark and your skin is light, then laser is definitely good for your body hair.  I'm having the pubic region done and I've had exceptionally good results.  After one time I've seen a massive reduction in hair.  On my face as well, though I suspect that's not common.

Thanks so much for the response.
I'm still wondering what does "laser" mean? i.e., if I go to a salon, what should I request? Arent there like couple of variations of laser? I just want to make sure I choose the right one, thank You!

Quote from: Allyda on July 09, 2014, 07:46:07 PM

Facial hair is nature's cruel joke.

#truth!

Quote from: crowcrow223 on July 10, 2014, 04:28:46 AM
Thanks so much for the response.
I'm still wondering what does "laser" mean? i.e., if I go to a salon, what should I request? Arent there like couple of variations of laser? I just want to make sure I choose the right one, thank You!

There are variations in laser type and it all depends on where youm go.  If you go to a laser spa with clinical certification, chances are they'll be using the most up to date, effective lasers.  A laser is exactly what you think it is, a laser.  It travels down the dark pigment of your hair to destroy the follicle and cluster so that hair won't grow back.  It will only work on hairs that are in a specific stage of growth which is why you must go back for multiple sessions.

It hurts, yes.  Especially the first time when you have a lot of hair to destroy.  One thing to take note of, in the US at least, is electrolysis is the only FDA approved permanent hair removal solution.  Laser falls under the permanent hair reduction category.  However, I think they have to call it that because it doesn't work on all hair types.

Your best bet is to search online in your area for a laser spa and read up on them to make sure they're certified.  Thats my suggestion.   :)

Thanks so much for the information, it helps a lot!

Quote from: TessaMarie on July 08, 2014, 12:18:16 AM
Hi Alaia,

I had my first electrolysis session this morning.  I counted 19 seconds between each cycle of pain.  It might be because she had to reduce the settings for my very low tolerance for pain.  This sounds like about 200 hairs/hour rather than the 600 you mentioned.  The cost was $38 for 35 mins, with $60/hour going forward.  Next session booked for Thursday afternoon.

Am I overpaying ?  (I live in Philly.  Electrologist is in a (nice) suburb just north of Philly.)

Or is it normal for the first session (or two) to appear relatively slow as the electrologist gets used to how much pain I can tolerate & which settings work best for my face/neck.

btw:  I did ask her to start with my neck, since that is the one area I really dislike shaving.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

Tessa

What type of machine and treatment method is she using (thermolysis, flash, blend, synchro, etc)? How many hairs does she treat in one pain cycle? It's difficult to say whether she's going too slow without knowing those details.

The hourly price seems about right though.

Quote from: Alaia on July 11, 2014, 04:34:29 AM
What type of machine and treatment method is she using (thermolysis, flash, blend, synchro, etc)? How many hairs does she treat in one pain cycle? It's difficult to say whether she's going too slow without knowing those details.

The hourly price seems about right though.

Thank you for the reply, Alaia     : o)

She is using a Fischer CB-X, & an Instantron SS-69.

I believe it was the Fischer machine she was using on me, because she was more successful using thermolysis than electrolysis.

Between my very low pain tolerance, phobia of needles, & hyper-sensitivty about anything touching my neck, each session was eye-wateringly painful.

I am hoping the Lidocaine she gave me will make next week's visit a little easier for me.

Tessa

Quote from: crowcrow223 on July 10, 2014, 04:28:46 AM
Thanks so much for the response.
I'm still wondering what does "laser" mean? i.e., if I go to a salon, what should I request? Arent there like couple of variations of laser? I just want to make sure I choose the right one, thank You!

I think there must be a lot of difference in the lasers based on everyone's treatment timetable.  My doctor estimates 4-5 treatments.  I started in May and should be done in September.  I see some people talking about 10+ treatments and years.  Perhaps she is overly optimistic, (I have only had two treatments) but she teaches at Washington University School of Medicine so I trust that she knows what she is doing.  She estimated a 25% reduction with each treatment and so far she is right on.  I had a very thick beard as well.  I paid $55/hr for electrolysis in May before I started laser, and will return to that for the grays.  I didn't think electrolysis was that bad, but the laser sucks ass even with their numbing cream.  I had a couple spots of discoloration on my face after electrolysis which is why I decided to go with a dermatologist for my laser.  I will also do a more thorough search for an experienced electrologist.  Don't skimp on your face if you don't have to. 

I don't go back until late July, but I will ask what she is using and post it after i do

Quote from: TessaMarie on July 11, 2014, 02:39:45 PM
Thank you for the reply, Alaia     : o)

She is using a Fischer CB-X, & an Instantron SS-69.

I believe it was the Fischer machine she was using on me, because she was more successful using thermolysis than electrolysis.

Between my very low pain tolerance, phobia of needles, & hyper-sensitivty about anything touching my neck, each session was eye-wateringly painful.

I am hoping the Lidocaine she gave me will make next week's visit a little easier for me.

Tessa

Looking around on the web I've seen comments from electrologists that the Fischer is still a good machine that many use as a backup. If your technician is using slower thermolysis and is skilled then you still should have a good kill rate. Mine uses an Apilus Platinum with a type of flash thermolysis that allows the technician to move very quickly.

As for the pain, the topical Lidocaine cream will help. I use RectiCare Lidocaine 5% Anorectal cream. Yeah, it's packaged for hemorrhoids, but it's the same stuff, cheaper, and you can buy it otc at Walgreens. Plan on applying it about 30 mins before your session, really cake it on and don't rub it in, and then cover it with little pieces of saran wrap. Preferably in a way so your electrologist can remove one piece at a time, work that section, then move on to the next area.

Groupon is a perfectly fine website to find laser deals on. You do, however, have to go to the website for the deal, look into what it is they're offering (what's the name of the laser they use? is it laser or ipl? are the technicians certified? are they overseen by a doctor? etc.), and find out if they have a history of experience. Calling them and asking in-depth questions can help. A person who can answer your questions quickly and with confidence is a very good sign. As a bonus, they will often offer to give you extra incentive if you pay direct, since groupon takes a hefty portion of the money when you sign up through them.

Take into consideration their location (a strong, business oriented location indicates that they earn the money to maintain their establishment), and if absolutely necessary to convince yourself, walk in and take a look around: does it look clean and professional? Do the employees seem used to accommodating people and do they seem knowledgeable?

I can't speak to the efficiency of laser, being in the middle of it myself (with so far amazing results), but I have routinely read over the years that it is extremely effective on light skin, dark hair; that it tends to get the job done in the average 6 sessions (often less, rarely more).

Mixture of the two is probably best. Laser to get rid of a majority of the hairs and electrolysis to kill the stragglers.

Quote from: jebee on March 27, 2014, 10:18:53 AM
do not get discount lazer hair removal...

My first six sessions were from a $119 groupon deal. My laser place uses a top notch laser and they have never damaged my skin. After the first six were done I bought another package deal of 6 sessions for $200. I'm on session 8 now and most of the black hairs are GONE. So not every cheap laser deal is a bad or dangerous deal. Read the reviews of the place to find out more.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on July 14, 2014, 09:12:08 PM
Mixture of the two is probably best. Laser to get rid of a majority of the hairs and electrolysis to kill the stragglers.

This ^^-----^^ is a very good idea that I definitely agree with if you have dark hair and you don't also have dark skin.

Ally :icon_flower:

During the summer I'm thinking of maybe doing a 4-hour electrolysis session on a single day.  Waaaay too many grey hairs.  I just wonder if I'll be able to deal with so much discomfort - just a half-hour leaves my nerves jangling :(

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on July 15, 2014, 02:04:41 AM
During the summer I'm thinking of maybe doing a 4-hour electrolysis session on a single day.  Waaaay too many grey hairs.  I just wonder if I'll be able to deal with so much discomfort - just a half-hour leaves my nerves jangling :(

The gray's are a pain in the a** aren't they. I have the same problem. I've cleared all the dark hair and all that's left are grays that my laser has a hard time with even with the carbon dye I have specifically for this problem. I'm pretty sure I'll be booking electro soon to clear them all.

Ally :icon_flower: