Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, everyone always talks about 'what are the signs of being trans', etc. so I wonder what are the signs that someone (who is thinking he/she is maybe trans) is NOT trans, if there are any?
I am just merely curious if there are any tell-tale signs or what you guys/gals can come up with, as I am pretty much certain I AM trans and not 'just confused' or anything. And in the end I believe everyone should have the final say in the matter, as no one can look inside your head and determine it for you.

Quote from: Erik Ezrin on March 30, 2014, 05:44:25 AM
So, everyone always talks about 'what are the signs of being trans', etc. so I wonder what are the signs that someone (who is thinking he/she is maybe trans) is NOT trans, if there are any?
I am just merely curious if there are any tell-tale signs or what you guys/gals can come up with, as I am pretty much certain I AM trans and not 'just confused' or anything. And in the end I believe everyone should have the final say in the matter, as no one can look inside your head and determine it for you.

probably the opposite of the signs you are trans

- Feeling you relate to your body as a good representation of who you are on the inside
- Not desiring to be any other sex than the one you have
- Not desiring to express a gender other than your own
- If we're going with the whole binary thing: fitting the binary, ie: being a masculine man or a feminine woman

Yeah, that makes sense of course, but I was more thinking of people breaking the gender norms or seemingly bordering ->-bleeped-<-. Like very feminine guys or masculine girls. Okay, I know a lot of masculine girls, but all of them embrace a certain amount of femininity (like female-cut tees, fancy bras or other 'feminine details') and seem to feel okay being a girl and all, but I had a phase where I thought I was okay being a girl too (probably due to pretty bad bullying for being masculine and boyish, being called "it" all the time and shouted names doesn't do well on a developing, insecure, teen psyche, lol)
And how about butch girls who THINK they are trans because... I dunno...? Do they, the infamous "transtrenders", even EXIST?? (I find it hard to believe someone wants to be trans, or convinces him/herself that he/she is trans. I mean, WHO THE HECK would WANT to be trans!? It's not like you have many advantages. Okay, you get attention, but most of it is probably going to be negative. There are easier and better ways to get into the spotlight, LOL!)

I just started thinking of this mainly because some pretty masculine girl friends were asking me questions about it, like "yeah, I get it, you are masculine and boyish, but so are we. Does that mean we can be unknowingly trans too? Or that you unknowingly convinced yourself you are trans?" I found especially the last question quite offensive, but I am a reasonable person and they asked it more in a hypothetical way, so I explained them how I experienced it, the dysphoria etc. but it still got me thinking.

I have read that cis gendered people do not question their gender, they do not feel opposite and the do not think of it many times a day. I asked several (5, when I came out to them) cis gendered people if they ever questioned their gender, see themselves as the opposite sex (in their head) or felt opposite and the said no. Needless to say I was is total disbelief. I still wonder if they were not honest. I can not believe they never, not one time, felt they are the opposite sex.

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on March 30, 2014, 07:22:42 AM
I have read that cis gendered people do not question their gender, they do not feel opposite and the do not think of it many times a day. I asked several (5, when I came out to them) cis gendered people if they ever questioned their gender, see themselves as the opposite sex (in their head) or felt opposite and the said no. Needless to say I was is total disbelief. I still wonder if they were not honest. I can not believe they never, not one time, felt they are the opposite sex.

One of my "Old Reliable" sanity checks when I get into yet another "WTF am I doing?" funks.  Soon followed by a little reality therapy as backup.

For me there was never any question about being TG. It always came down to how far up the spectrum towards transsexual I am. Which usually led to the thinking that through the sheer force of will I can "get by" without going there. Only problem is know all too well the consequences of that technique  :'(

BTW - I do sort of recall a study or report by Masters & Johnson, I believe, that stated something along the lines that at some point everyone asks the gender, is the grass greener, question of themselves, and quickly dismisses those thoughts.

What if a guy wants to be a girl, but a masculine, tough girl ? (Not me, you never know what people want  :))

Outside this forum, most people don't understand, if I say I'm trans, they say "Really? Sometimes I also wonder what it must feel like to be a woman, so am I trans?".

As for me, I have TRIED really really hard to think and convince myself that I am happy in my own body, but I KNOW my problem, it's just something else....

Never seeking out any information on gender and gender identity. For example, having no interest in this thread, or indeed this entire forum.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 30, 2014, 08:43:02 AM
Never seeking out any information on gender and gender identity. For example, having no interest in this thread, or indeed this entire forum.

A few years ago, I didn't even know forums like this existed! Certainly not one dedicated entirely to the subject, like this. After I discovered places like this, I thought 'I'll keep my secret to myself', then I realized I can't do it alone, I'd burst! and I need people to talk to, people to share my secret with, so here I am.

Quote from: MbutF on March 30, 2014, 08:47:32 AM
A few years ago, I didn't even know forums like this existed! Certainly not one dedicated entirely to the subject, like this. After I discovered places like this, I thought 'I'll keep my secret to myself', then I realized I can't do it alone, I'd burst! and I need people to talk to, people to share my secret with, so here I am.

Definitely this above!
I always felt different from everyone else, but never knew what was wrong or what to do about it or if there WAS help and support. After reading other stories here I have no doubt I am Trans now. :) That is why I am so sure with my decision and never question myself now.

I sign of not being trans for me would be that I dont feel 100% woman...

still though I feel that I need to transition...

It'll probably get in trouble to say this, but...
I tend to be skeptical of people who only refer to gender roles and/or taste in clothing as reasons for thinking they're trans. They have no problem with their bodies and don't really think of themselves as the opposite sex (or gender I guess), but question whether they're trans because they want to cut their hair a certain way or something.
I've also met someone who claims to be genderqueer. I have no problem with genderqueer people in general. I'm just skeptical of this one because they constantly confuse gender with gender roles, calls being trans a choice, and says other things that are actually kind of offensive.

Whenever I told my mom about things I thought when I was younger relating to my body (thinking I'd somehow end up at least part boy, wanting a penis, etc), she claimed that everyone thinks those things. That seems a little odd.

On my 1st  therapy session my therapist asked how long I felt like a woman. I said I don't  know what a woman feels like. I feel female and have since 5. See myself as female, relate as female and have female ways of communication (verbal and non-verbal). I have not changed how I feel nor do I think it will ever change.  HRT, therapy and acceptance had allowed me to feel better about myself. With that being said, if I could blend in a as woman and fade away I would.

Well I don't get this question cuz most trans people go a long point in their life not identifying as trans. Seems loaded to me. If you want being trans to be absolute then you better only let the little kids who insist they are the opposite sex transition. I don't think being or not being trans is a permanent state and I definitely don't think everyone who wants to transition has a biological need to do it... Anyone who wants to transition for any reason at all is trans, that's how the umbrella works....

I'm not trans cuz I don't want to be trans. That is my personaly identity.

Yes indeed! I always thought questioning your gender was SUPER normal, and feeling like your body is 'wrong' or 'weird' was just as normal too. I thought all girls constantly wanted to have a penis and be a boy, LOL! How naive could I be ::)
But aren't there people who think they might be trans, thoroughly research it, eventually maybe even transition, and then appear not to be trans? Just curious, and also maybe a bit of a deep-down fear of myself bubbling up here. Even though my desire to change my body and live as a guy full time is very strong, and I also feel like a guy mentally and emotionally, and wish I had a penis and other masculine attributes, there is still this little voice saying "WHAT IF you are wrong?" It's maddening. :x

But yeah, my friends told me they had thought about it, for a few minutes maybe, what it would be like to be a guy, whether it would be easier or better, or whatever, but soon came to the conclusion they'd rather just stay a woman, because that's what they are. So for my, even though butch, girl friends it was correct that cispeople don't question their gender anyway.

Quote from: Erik Ezrin on March 30, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
Yes indeed! I always thought questioning your gender was SUPER normal, and feeling like your body is 'wrong' or 'weird' was just as normal too. I thought all girls constantly wanted to have a penis and be a boy, LOL! How naive could I be ::)
But aren't there people who think they might be trans, thoroughly research it, eventually maybe even transition, and then appear not to be trans? Just curious, and also maybe a bit of a deep-down fear of myself bubbling up here. Even though my desire to change my body and live as a guy full time is very strong, and I also feel like a guy mentally and emotionally, and wish I had a penis and other masculine attributes, there is still this little voice saying "WHAT IF you are wrong?" It's maddening. :x

But yeah, my friends told me they had thought about it, for a few minutes maybe, what it would be like to be a guy, whether it would be easier or better, or whatever, but soon came to the conclusion they'd rather just stay a woman, because that's what they are. So for my, even though butch, girl friends it was correct that cispeople don't question their gender anyway.

I think you can only tell thru your life experience you know? I thought I wanted to transition, told myself all this stuff about being a girl and how it was right for me and my body and I mean i sort of was right in a lot of ways, but the fact ended up that I'm not happy being trans. 2 years in it just doesn't feel right for me.

Because, i guess, whether being trans is right for you or not is more than just whether you want to be a guy or a girl. It's also about whether you feel such a deep need to be a guy or a girl that you're willing to sacrifice a lot just to be socially accepted as one and physically more like one. There's no choice to be cis. And just prrsonally i'd rather be cis in the wrong gender than trans in the right one. (though having said that I still haven't detransitioned and not sure when or if i will be able to in reality. I just regret it i mean)

Sorry i hope that makes any sense lol :/

The little voice in your head which says that this could be wrong does exists in most of us...

but even if we hear it, why arent we stoping?
cause there is another louder voice that tells us to move forward....

A lot, if not most, people do, in fact, question their gender or wonder what it would be like to be a different sex and etc. Just like many, if not most, people question their sexuality and perhaps even explore it before concluding their sexuality is whatever they thought it was beforehand. It's normal. It's normal I think because society puts a lot of pressure on gender roles and societal expectations and etc., so there becomes a strong conflict between how someone feels, and their body/sex. That's different to trans people in the sense that the feelings of trans people aren't limited to gender roles and presentation and etc. But it is something they question. There are lots of people who transition or take steps towards exploring their gender identity before realising it's not for them.

I'll go as far as to admit that I don't even really feel like I am a guy. I've never had that certainty, so I could continue living as a girl if I chose to. But I'd be unhappy and hate myself, because I've always been unhappy and hated myself. I don't internally feel like I'm a man, but I feel like I want to be because this body, this label isn't who I am. It's like I've forced two pieces to fit together that aren't meant to; yeah, they do the job, but there's a piece that will fit perfectly. And that piece is male body, male identity, etc. I guess to some people that'd mean I'm not trans or it's a sign of not being so, but I've come across and spoken to a lot of trans people who felt the same.

So I don't think there are any signs of not being trans besides the obvious of being comfortable with your body, not questioning your gender outside of the usual sense of curiosity, etc., because people are all different and their paths are very different.

Quote from: Erik Ezrin on March 30, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
there is still this little voice saying "WHAT IF you are wrong?" It's maddening. :x

I think it's great that you're not afraid to question yourself.

I admit that I am scared of posting threads like this, even though I question myself sometimes. you're brave.  :)

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on March 30, 2014, 07:22:42 AM
I have read that cis gendered people do not question their gender, they do not feel opposite and the do not think of it many times a day. I asked several (5, when I came out to them) cis gendered people if they ever questioned their gender, see themselves as the opposite sex (in their head) or felt opposite and the said no. Needless to say I was is total disbelief. I still wonder if they were not honest. I can not believe they never, not one time, felt they are the opposite sex.

Huh... Really? Wow... I think I have to ask the friends who I am out to about that. I guess I just assumed that questioning it was part of the human condition. It's been such a fixture in my life for such a long time it's never actually occurred to me that a lot people would never have even questioned their gender.

i think its the acceptance of you being your birth gender without any outside influence.
i never "realized" i was trans. i never "questioned" my gender. but i did come to acceptance of myself that i was different.
i cried a lot when i was younger, my dad kept referring to my actions as girly, and i related more to my mom than anyone else in my family.
sure im tomboyish. but i can also be girly. i play videogames, and i like to dress up the characters in it. i like to go shopping for clothes but i like "cool" looking clothes.
i feel most comfortable being right in the middle rather than being on either side of the extreme. i dont want to be labeled because of what i look like or what i have.

but ive gotten a little off topic huh?
i guess the short answer is: state of mind in your prehrt state.
you dont have to be super depressed and suicidal like i was... but i think there has to be some sort of violent mindset against your prehrt state. i was never a violent person, but the thoughts that wouldnt go away, the edge that i was on, so close to taking a drastic step towards nonexistance, pushed me to do something about it.

I've talked to a couple cis people who said they did question.

I guess when I doubt myself I go back to how long ago all this started and how it has remained. Maybe it got burried to a degree because I didn't know I had any other options, but I always knew I didn't fit?

I think the folks you are talking about, your masculine female friends, could fit under the trans umbrella if they so chose. Trans is a pretty wide scope of identities. What you are really talking more about are transitioners--people who alter their legal, social, and/or physical state across gender lines.

It is common for binary trans folks to fall into a kind of "either/or" way of thinking about being trans and transition and all that jazz. When the truth is that what we've got is a kind of smushed together collection of tools that we use to try to be more comfortable with our bodies and our lives.

Trans is, outside of the psychiatric diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria (which in no way actually refers to "trans"), an identity label. You are trans if you say you are trans. Therefore someone can't really "incorrectly" think they are trans. In the same way that someone can't "incorrectly" think they are gay. You might realize that what made you label yourself as trans or gay is not true for you: i.e. a person decides not to transition; a person decides they enjoy having sex with people of various genders.

What can, and sadly does, happen is that people can undergo aspects of transition, and then realize that they are unhappy in their altered state. To me, the warning signs for this are fairly straightforward. It is frequently people who are choosing to do a thing in order to achieve a goal that that particular tool can't provide. Often a goal that is far, far too general. In other words, you should undergo phalloplasty, for example, because you want to physically alter your body in that way; not because of any general concept of "becoming/being a man." You should take hormones because you want the specific effects those hormones have on your body. You should dress in a way that is comfortable, both physically and emotionally, for you and that allows you to function in a rather biased society. Obviously, there are compromises that have to be made sometimes, but you get the idea.

The people I see run into trouble tend to be the ones who go for a grand sweeping narrative of who they are and what that means they should do. Each action, each decision, should be independently evaluated on its own merits for the individual in question. Just because there is a preset and expected path for binary transitioners doesn't mean that it is correct for you (or incorrect for you, for that matter).

When people ask how I know I'm trans (this is a rare event), I just say that my body hurt and now it's better. But that is MY answer for my specific situation and refers to how I personally made choices to resolve my ->-bleeped-<-. Your answer is, mostly likely, going to be something different.

Quote from: JoanneB on March 30, 2014, 08:13:06 AM
One of my "Old Reliable" sanity checks when I get into yet another "WTF am I doing?" funks.  Soon followed by a little reality therapy as backup.

For me there was never any question about being TG. It always came down to how far up the spectrum towards transsexual I am. Which usually led to the thinking that through the sheer force of will I can "get by" without going there. Only problem is know all too well the consequences of that technique  :'(

BTW - I do sort of recall a study or report by Masters & Johnson, I believe, that stated something along the lines that at some point everyone asks the gender, is the grass.   



greener, question of themselves, and quickly dismisses those thoughts.

All I can say on this is that you simply know. I relate to things as male. I relate to women as a male. I cannot being or thinking any other way. My biggest problem is I should have acted on it sooner. Now that I have been in a relationship for a long time only to find it was a lie I have relaized I now have to take care of me. It has all been a gut wrenching experience. Always putting someone else first who 0i believed in and made all of this bearable is now not wanting me around anymoe. People say people like FTM's are not happy with themseleves. Well I disagree. Ireally like the person I am.  I just need some "tweaking.". All I can say is you just know. Nothing complcated.

VERY loaded question, with some loaded answers :)

Here's what I think is a very interesting point, based upon a previous comment involving trans* perhaps not being a static state, but being fluid, (much like sexuality can be).

Consider this - vast majority of adult cis males who are straight did not fancy girls or find the female sex to be attractive until they reached puberty.
Straight cis-normative males are attracted to women as teenagers and adults, but it took changes in their bodies to signal this attraction. Pre-puberty however, technically, they were asexual.

So does the fact that because straight males were not attracted to females right from birth mean that they cannot be considered genuinely attracted to women as an adult? Of course, not.

So it seems perfectly logical to me, that a straight cisnormative male (or of course, female) may reach a point in their life where a "change" occurs (could be mental, emotional, physical, environmental factors or all four potentially), and then they become transexual, when before they were not. A switch flips and then they happen to be trans*. Much the same way as switch flips in a prepubescent boy and he suddenly becomes attracted to females during puberty.

I do believe that transexualism can be fluid, and people can flow into and out of that state, depending on all the above four factors.


With myself -
I wasn't transgender or transexual when I was little. I didn't feel wrong in my body and I didn't feel wrong socially. I was a boy and happy about being me, I didn't question my being.

My identity and body started to misalign just prior to puberty when stuff began to stop making sense, and I began noticing discrepencies in my identity and wishes, which increasingly were out-of-step with other males. I also began expecting things, such as a female face, which cis boys do not tend to feel a need for. And this is when I started becoming transgender without realising. So I wasn't transgender, but as a result of various factors - I am now. There's a huge discrepancy.

I have very little experience with this as it relates to trans, because I've only identified myself as trans for a very short period of time. None the less, I came out to a close friend tonight (who has told me in the past feels trans) and the first thing he asked me was 'how do you know for sure?' and my reply was because every single minute of every hour that I've known the difference between the genders, I've felt incorrect - I didn't accept it about myself, in fact it made me strive harder to be 'correct' (ie more masculine) in my body, but it's a feeling that's never gone away. This satisfied him, and he said 'me too...' but since he has a kid and is married, he doesn't wish to transition, which I respect.

That being said, I'm pre-HRT, and from what I understand, doesn't the hormones kind of make the whole thing much more real mentally? (from what I was reading in other threads and online, HRT will either make you feel as if you are finally reducing the dysphoria, or you'll start to panic and go into overdrive, realizing it's all wrong) so I guess that could be a good marker.

Also, as a mtf, I think if you're willing to lop off your genitals, which men are VERY attached too, I'd say that's a decent marker that you are Trans* right there... ;)  Obviously I can't speak for anybody but myself...