Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Why do people insist on using the word us, our and we on this forum and then proceed to form cliques, so high school, or attempt to be a part of another clique. There's obviously groups of people who all answer each other's responses but if you talk, they act like you said nothing. Your reply gets totally ignored. I see this happen not with me, I can take it, but more so with other trans women who are early in transition and in a vulnerable state. And I just think this type of hierarchical structure and insistence on groups of peeps with a clear leader and then followers (though not always). I could really say something about this but I'll be banned.

Nobody has to respond, not that many people ever respond to anything I say I'm like a ghost on this forum you'd think I'm Patrick Swayze, but maybe make an effort to respond to that newbie with 11 posts that so wants some type of reassurance or even the tiniest bit of acceptance, which they may not or prolly don't get IRL.

I'm sure I'll get five "OMG Joanna stop being so dramatic..." instead of "OMG Joanna, is everything alright..." But maybe I try to connect with people on this virtual world way too much and should just stop. I mean who really cares anymore? I was just wondering if anyone noticed the cliquishness of this forum and people will straight up act like you don't exist.  I can't count the number of times I went out of my way to comment only to see the OP comment and thank everyone on the thread but me. Sorry, that can't help but hurt. I'm sensitive, emotional and crap like that just feels like a slap in the face tho it may be unintentional. However, most times, I don't think it is. But maybe I deserve this to for speaking truth, which isn't popular. I side with wives a lot which doesn't win me a lot of fans here, but I just try to be fair and offer an honest assessment.

Case in point: there was this thread where everyone told the girl she passed in flying colors and then went outside dressed more femme, got called a ->-bleeped-<- and other horrid names, and is now completely depressed and even talks about suicide on a regular basis. I happen to really like this person and did my best to tamper expectations but I got ->-bleeped-<- for that.

That's all. Maybe this is just a rant. Maybe it's fare thee well. I don't know. Or maybe I just don;t need this forum as much anymore. Thought not can help me with those, not that they would. Once when I was in obvious distress, I got 13 comments, and most of those were from one person. I guess that wasn't it...but it is now..carry on and just ignore this. It's more of a mission statement than anything else.

I pretty much come here to talk to one person, who has shown a genuine interest in my life and I in hers. Plus we have a lot in common.

sorry Joanna, I like the uniqueness of your approach

You are not alone in noticing this, nor feeling this way. I have often seen the little groups. And, I too often feel as if I am invisible. Sometimes, I wonder if I am the only one seeing my posts. This is part of the reason that I no longer post much on here.

If you don't mind, what else is going on with you? This post has a rather down feeling to it compared to most of your other posts.

It's not just on here it's human nature to gravitate towards like minded people. Trust me it happens in the real world too it's very hard to make friends in the trans community. But honestly people really don't respond to my posts either and I really don't expect them too I'm just trying to leave some advice on the stuff that helped me that may help those that come behind me. And another thing that I don't see mentioned much is the jealousy factor they're is a lot of jealousy within the trans community. If your younger and you pass you are going to draw some jealousy. I'll admit that's kinda the reason why I pulled back from the trans community and pretty much keep to myself. But that's life and as discovered pretty quickly when I became an adult is people really never leave high school. Sure they leave the school but they never leave that mentality behind. 

Joanna, just keep being you.  It's why I read your posts.

And Brooke, you are hardly invisible.

Cause people suck.

<-invisible.

Quote from: Seras on April 12, 2014, 11:39:19 AM
Cause people suck.

<-invisible.

Now, now, people don't suck. Think positively!

@Jill F - Thanks!

is it bad that I gave up caring about whether anyone reads anything I post?  I know of one person that goes out of her way to talk to me here now, there were more, but they are no longer here.

Although to be fair, I probably do put some people off by my demeanor and my forum name, but hey, that's life...

Quote from: big head horsey-faced cookie monster on April 12, 2014, 12:09:53 PM
is it bad that I gave up caring about whether anyone reads anything I post?  I know of one person that goes out of her way to talk to me here now, there were more, but they are no longer here.

Although to be fair, I probably do put some people off by my demeanor and my forum name, but hey, that's life...

I still love you hon.

It's all in your minds? I think the higher your post count and frequency of posting the more your posting may be taken for granted. Like your posts are just a normal part of the flora here, or anywhere. It happens.

Quote from: Heather on April 12, 2014, 11:35:04 AM
It's not just on here it's human nature to gravitate towards like minded people. Trust me it happens in the real world to

Hiya Heather and sorry for grabbing your quote for this.  I am certainly not meaning to denigrate you but the way you phrased it caused a few neurons to get together for a chat so I have included it more for context setting than anything else.

I feel there should be a pronounced difference between the way things work in the real world and the way they work on Susan's.  Susan's is a support site, a safe place to come to when you need space to say something and have it heard.  Is this ever likely to happen?  I suspect not.  Too many of us have too much going on, some of it entirely internal and in many cases externally to.  It isn't so much that we don't want to reply to people or acknowledge their contributions but that we have limited time available and address the most pertinent things (at the time).  Or maybe we just feel that we have nothing useful to contribute or that no-one is really interested in what we have to say, which may have been sparked by not being acknowledged when responding to someone.

Flah!  Brain dump.

Rosie

P.S.Please don't stop posting JD, I may not often respond but I certainly enjoy your posts.

Hey Joanna,

As for the substance of what you say, I'm sure you are right.  The are cliques and people have made friends with certain members more than others. There are some members here I connect more with people in general.  That's just part of life.  I've seen thought out replys get ignored, but it's up to the op to accept or take advice in the long run.  In theory, I appreciate and like all responses given to me, other than the few trolls, and I do make it a point to respond to people, but sometimes there are so many.  Sometimes it's a little overwhelming and emotionally taxing.  Like I have this huge thread with a bunch of responses that I've yet to read because it's all very emotionally draining at times to see people comment on my life and stuff.  I suppose that makes me part of the problem, but again I like giving each comment it's due share even if it can evoke painful feelings and sometimes I need time to reflect on these things. Also, a comment may get lost in the sweep of thing or I may not reply, but that doesn't mean it wasn't read or considered.  People have different posting styles too.  I don't know what my point is, but I guess I mean to say it's not always intentional.

Since I'm the suicidal member in question, I would like to respond.  I appreciated all of the responses I've recieved in those threads, including you Joanna.  I'm sorry if you feel that you were given drama from it, but I didn't intend to do that and didn't believe I did.  Sometimes this process takes a lot out of me and I get emotional in many different ways.  In any case, I appreciated your comments and thought they were thoughtful even if a bit blunt about your point.  Everyone helps in there own way and we all have a different perscpective.  What passes with flying colors to some, doesn't for you or me, you know? So, I'm sorry if you feel I gave you grief about that, as I really didn't intend to do that nor did I know I may have come off that way.  I'm just as you know a total emotional mess.

And thank you for liking me as a member, I like you as well and would be sad if you were to leave.

May I ask Joanna, is everything okay?  Seriously, Im not one to talk about things and offer great advice as you know how messed up and crazy I am, but I always have a shoulder to lend should you need it.  If not here, you can always pm me.  I hope all is well.

Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on April 12, 2014, 01:17:14 PM
Hiya Heather and sorry for grabbing your quote for this.  I am certainly not meaning to denigrate you but the way you phrased it caused a few neurons to get together for a chat so I have included it more for context setting than anything else.

I feel there should be a pronounced difference between the way things work in the real world and the way they work on Susan's.  Susan's is a support site, a safe place to come to when you need space to say something and have it heard.  Is this ever likely to happen?  I suspect not.  Too many of us have too much going on, some of it entirely internal and in many cases externally to.  It isn't so much that we don't want to reply to people or acknowledge their contributions but that we have limited time available and address the most pertinent things (at the time).  Or maybe we just feel that we have nothing useful to contribute or that no-one is really interested in what we have to say, which may have been sparked by not being acknowledged when responding to someone.

Flah!  Brain dump.

Rosie

P.S.Please don't stop posting JD, I may not often respond but I certainly enjoy your posts.

^^^ I would add sometimes the posts are so long and thought out that replying to each point is rather of an ordeal. So we may acknowledge what was written yet decide that maybe someone else, who has more patience, might say what we where thinking all along. I encounter this sometimes, reading a well thought out reply, wanting to agree, but I'd feel trite just adding my 2cents. So I just don't reply altogether.

Doesn't mean the message has been ignored.

Joanna, this is a great post. I agree there are clicks here and elsewhere. I am usually outside of clicks because I am a loaner. I am use to being alone. I think, posting for me helps me organize my thoughts and hopefully someone can benefit. When I can help I do. I have clicked off a lot of posts because I get triggered. I keep away from some posts categories altogether, as I can not go there. JD, do not even think of leaving! You add so much to this site.


LTL, I just received the book: 101 reasons to not kill yourself, Kate Bornstein. She has a few good books and I read, My Gender Workbook.
Suicidal thoughts are usually what I awake to and go to bed with. I Know the pain and the difficulty. I reply to you posts sometimes but do not others. Mostly because you are far ahead of me and I have little to offer and others have such great advise grounded in RLE. 

Joanna Yep I feel exactly like that (a ghost) but Idk I don't post enough on these forums to be recognized anyways. There have been moments when people acknowledge me and actually reply to me. But I just continue to post on topics I can share a bit wisdom and my own experiences. Cause you never know who might read it and it might help them a ton. For me that was the case! Way before I registered I saw a few threads on training your voice and someone said something that helped attain my female voice finally. That tip was a life saver. Wish I had a been a member at the time to thank them. I honestly can't remember who it was though. So even if no one here ever truly acknowledges me, I'll continue to post because it might just help someone some day.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 12, 2014, 01:19:47 PM
So, I'm sorry if you feel I gave you grief about that, as I really didn't intend to do that nor did I know I may have come off that way. 

You in no way gave me grief or cause me any strife. I just felt so mad at the world that that happened to you. You don't deserve it. Your by far one of the kndest, sweetest, most lovable members on this site and I am 100 percent positive that no matter what you will find a man one day who will see this and love you for all that you are. I'm psychic so I know for a fact lol

Uh, to other comments: thanks so much for taking the time to reply and asking me to not stop posting. I don't think I can stop posting as it's become such a part of my life that it would be very hard to walk away from. Something horrid would have to be said to me for that to happen.

This is a lot of comments so, yeah, it would be taxing to respond to each one, especially since I have work to do. But I am ever so touched by many of the responses.

However, in many of the posts I'm talking about there was like two or three other commenters and the OP responded top their posts, and when you take 15 minutes to craft a well-written heartfelt reply and to have the OP respond to everyone but you (remember: two other people, maybe three), it's hurtful and a slap in the face. They could at least say "Thank you so much for your  thoughts," or "Thanx." Five letters. Of it toally understand if there are like 10 or more other commenters to forget someone or overlook something, I'm not that dramatic and needy (okay I am) but it just feels like, hey, son't comment on my thread I couldn't give a crap what you think. My real friends responded. In Junior High, I was friends with these girls and then drama happened and they were all "hey Mattie, no one will ever love you. Who could? Ya weirdo. Look at all the other guys and their voices have chnaged and the teacher wants you to sing a solo in soprano. You;re such a girl. Do you even have a penis?" And yeah I'm trans and I knew that then, but still I didn't want to be, and I dreamed of one day meeting a woman and that we'd have kids and all this would magically vanish. Well, it's been 15 years and my voice still hasn't changed not have I virilized. Transition for me is normality. If I can't be a guy, and I want to be a girl, and act and look so much like one, then I might as well be one, yes? Well that was a tangent sorry.

The point was what those girls said hurt. If they just walked by me, that woulda hurt too. And I guess that's how I feel sometimes here: alone, isolated, and unwanted. I can't even count how many times I posted something and deleted it just because I felt the person didn't want to hear my thoughts. There's a lot of peeps I just won't comment on anymore. Plus, there's the whole "I'm trannnier than thou" thing and I'm supposed to remember people's every post. No one else gets this cause I read the site much more than I should.

Really, Heather and Rosie are right: cliques form and there aint a dam thing that can be done about it. But like Rosie said, this is supposed to be a safe place. IDK. I'm just ranting. Sorry.

But really thanks for all the replies if I didn't have to work I would respond to everyone but can't. I'm a hypocrite what can I say. I just wish the cliquishness ways would end and evryone was treated with respect. I know there's one member who people give grief too and send nasty PMs and that's just messed up. Really, if you do that, you should discuss it with a therpaist or go see one, cause it's mean.

Lastly, I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes Susan's feels like "Mean Girls." I cried at the end of that movie and I went with like five other female friends and they didn't cry, as far as I could tell, so I'm just too emotional. That's really what it comes down too and I should see a therapist. My BF keeps telling me to but i don't. Really horrid experiences from when I was younger.

But I have to for SRS so...yeah. But to everone asking if I'm alright, yeah I'm good. it's just my Obamaphone changed plans and now I can only use it for 10 days a month, and that's just texts. Apparently I send 1,250 texts in 10 days...all to one person. That's not counting phone time on the landline. But I just got paid and all i have left is $100 cause I had to buy a new phone/sim card, but at least I have an Android now so I don't look like such a loser. But it's so bulky and I like small cute things.

J. Dark, out...thnaks again...

Edit: wow that was long...sorry...eek....but I guess it's nice to know I'm not alone, maybe we should start our own clique called "This isn't a clique nor is it a hierarchical group based on passability. it's for members who feel ignored...everyone is welcome." (as long as you pass JK LOL) But with passing comes a whole slew of other problems. Specifically, becoming a pair of tits.

I'm goin to make a post, even though it'll get ignored..

Bluntness, honesty and reality are not appreciated here..

Lots of people here are jealous of you because you passed so well, so early, and have such a natural femininity to you, Joanna... just saying. And jealousy can breed contempt.

I'll admit, there were many times that I felt personally like I had a hard time relating to a lot of the things that you posted because it was like "No fair! Where was the struggle? Where were the months and months of feeling like you'd never make it, fighting against your own reflection, beating yourself up because you're still not female enough, wishing with your whole being that you could pass and yet still not?" It hurt that all of the things I wished I had, you do have. And it took one of your more recent posts, where you talked about all of the trouble that you went through as a young person because your appearance was androgynous, to really erase that for me and realize that those things I was jealous of really weren't all sunshine and roses, and weren't worth being jealous of.

So yeah... I'm sorry... I definitely feel like I've been part of the problem. It's just hard to be empathetic sometimes when you're jealous of someone.

And I think that's why a lot of the new members' posts get ignored too... it's hard to relate to someone who's hurting when you're jealous of them because they're 10 years younger than you and with way more naturally-feminine features. The feeling is almost like "How dare you be depressed? Don't you realize how lucky you are? Don't you realize how much I wish I could be you?"

Quote from: kelly_aus on April 12, 2014, 05:57:27 PM
I'm goin to make a post, even though it'll get ignored..

Bluntness, honesty and reality are not appreciated here..

It's appreciated when it comes from you! ;)

Quote from: kelly_aus on April 12, 2014, 05:57:27 PM
I'm goin to make a post, even though it'll get ignored..

Bluntness, honesty and reality are not appreciated here..

I don't want to be the one to ignore it.

Quote from: Evelyn K on April 12, 2014, 01:25:24 PM
I would add sometimes the posts are so long and thought out that replying to each point is rather of an ordeal. So we may acknowledge what was written yet decide that maybe someone else, who has more patience, might say what we where thinking all along. I encounter this sometimes, reading a well thought out reply, wanting to agree, but I'd feel trite just adding my 2cents. So I just don't reply altogether.

Doesn't mean the message has been ignored.

I agree with this. It's hard enough responding to what I do respond to and I don't even read some sections of the site through lack of time, not lack of interest. If people don't respond to me, meh, whatevs!

I'd say I haven't noticed any particular cliques but then I know I am very chummy with some of the Aussie gals, but I've actually met many of them in person so of course I'm friendly and in jokey with them. I don't think we're a clique though. Doesn't mean I won't talk to anyone else, although sometimes, if I know nothing about the political/medical/whatever lay of the land where the OP is from I can't really help or offer much advise so stay quiet.

It's human nature to form cliques, but they're terrible for those on the outside looking in.

If we're talking about the basest form of human nature, we feel better if we see someone in a situation that is worse than our own.  "At least I'm not like... blah blah blah..."
Being lower on the human totem pole makes you feel more isolated, ashamed, and depressed.

My only response to that is "stuff that, I know my own worth", and each every person should know and feel this way as well.

I know I'm being cynical about this, but I am aware that I'm not part of the "real" demographic of this site and that my posts are either a) irrelevant to people or b) not necessarily what they want to hear or c) just straight answers for people who are fact finding.  That often means no reply.

In the two years I've been on this site, I've made zero friends, either by design or by fate, take it whichever way you will.  I'm willing to help people, that being part of who I am, but I'm expecting little in return.

I'm still going to stick around for a while yet.

Quote from: luna nyan on April 13, 2014, 07:26:57 AM
In the two years I've been on this site, I've made zero friends, either by design or by fate, take it whichever way you will.

To be honest I've only been aware of you in the last week or so... I thought you must have been relatively new. Have you been out of circulation for a few months? Are you using a new avatar a or did you change your name? Sometimes people do that and its hard to keep track of who is who - especially the people not using avatars. As a user I need something consistent to relate to, even if it is a cartoon character or whatever. For what it's worth I've enjoyed, respected and appreciated our recent brief exchanges.

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 13, 2014, 07:36:30 AM
Have you been out of circulation for a few months? Are you using a new avatar a or did you change your name?

I did change my avatar.  My original avatar was Maetel from Galaxy Express 999.  It's now currently chibi-Luna from My Little Pony.  I tend to drop out for a few weeks at a time depending on how busy I am.  Right now I have a bit more extra free time so my post count may spike a bit.

QuoteFor what it's worth I've enjoyed, respected and appreciated our recent brief exchanges.

You're welcome.

Quote from: kelly_aus on April 12, 2014, 05:57:27 PM
Bluntness, honesty and reality are not appreciated here..

True to some extent. It depends on how 'bad' the message is and who you are telling. Some people here have extremely unrealistic expectations. Others believe they know better than the Doctors/Endos. Try telling that lot something they do not want to hear and the negative responses flow in.

It is hardly surprising. Being pre-transition damages a lot of people and the process of transition can be very stressful in the early stages causing yet more damage, so it is hardly surprising that a lot of negativity and pain can be found here.

When people here start shooting at me for telling them the truth, I just ignore them or I go away from this place. I only come here to try and help those who genuinely need to know something because there is a huge amount of misinformation about the transition process in the UK, most of it coming from people who have not even started transition or who have an axe of some sort to grind. It is how I 'give back' because I was helped by those who went before me and I try to help those coming along behind me. However, I am getting to the point where I think I have done my share now and so I am slowly withdrawing from the trans community in general and just sticking to a dozen close trans friends in real life.

I've been here a long time and i've seen a lot of cliques come and go. It's the nature of a forum like this.

I read threads where I just don't have any relevant advice so I don't respond. Others trigger me and I don't respond. Sometimes I am too tired to respond, or maybe i've had a couple of drinks and know not to respond. Other times I think that i've been too active here and people are tired of reading my .02 so I don't respond. My life experiences may be radically different than the OPs, or there may be a perceived age difference or a perceived difference in life values and I don't think I have anything relevant to share, so I don't respond.

The bottom line is that there are lots of reasons that people won't respond to a given thread, and a lot of those reasons may not have anything to do with the OP.

I have been on the receiving end of being ignored too. I had to find ways to move past it; and the way I did that was to realize that what I said might have helped the OP and they just didn't respond, or it might help someone when they look at the thread in the future. Or maybe what I said wasn't particularly useful and I need to quit posting until i've adjusted my thinking. I've had to realize that I am just a cog in the big machine of life and I don't know everything and its really not all about me.

We are all unique individuals with unique life experiences that we bring here and share; we are the fabric that makes up this forum. Without all of us there this site would have no value. Sometimes I can help and I get acknowledged, sometimes I think I helped and don't get acknowledged, sometimes it's me asking for help, and sometimes there are some not really well thought out posts that i've made that I later really regret making.

At the end of the day the best I can do is just try to be helpful and kind to people as I see opportunities to do so. Whether they accept what I had to say is really up to them.

I do read most of your posts JD.