Susan's Place Transgender Resources

"Four young women born with abnormal or missing vaginas were implanted with lab-grown versions made from their own cells... All four of the women in the study were born with Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) syndrome, a rare genetic condition in which the vagina and uterus are underdeveloped or absent."

http://news.yahoo.com/scientists-grow-viable-vaginas-girls-own-cells-223432537.html

This means that persons without vaginas can now be given stem cell vaginas. Why haven't I heard of any trans person getting a stem cell vagina? This happened 6 years ago. The technology is available and persons without vaginas have been given real vaginas made of their own cells, transwomen are women without vaginas!!!! The same thing!!! Vaginoplasties are still being performed???  >:(

Can we get together and find the doctors performing the surgeries and all call in and request they extend their services to the trans community? We need to do something!

Also on a side note, I've been doing some theorycrafting and I was thinking that perhaps at some point a voicebox and vocal chords could be made of our own stem cells and we could get a normal female speaking and singing voice! Possible?

I'm not a biologist, or involved in genetics or medicine in any way ( yet ), but common sense tells me that stem cells can only be used to grow tissues according to our DNA. And well, male DNA cannot produce a vagina.

Although I would love to be wrong about this.

they can actually tell the stem cell what cell to become. Our DNA is the same as a females, we just have different chromosomes. I cant give you the actual scientific references, but im sure the TED talk on stem cells would clear up the confusion.

and on the grounds of common sense, we all had a vagina in the womb, regardless of DNA :)

Quote from: SammyRose on April 19, 2014, 03:23:33 AM
I'm not a biologist, or involved in genetics or medicine in any way ( yet ), but common sense tells me that stem cells can only be used to grow tissues according to our DNA. And well, male DNA cannot produce a vagina.

Although I would love to be wrong about this.

Wrong.

A born male has XY chromosomes, females XX, hence , males have all the female genetics to produce female parts, even eggs to fertilise, it is born females who don't have any male genetic material to build from, hence no info to get sperm or male parts.

I actually watched this on a TV show documentary with Morgan freeman as a host. So it better be true lol.

Quote from: calicarly on April 19, 2014, 04:41:18 AM
Wrong.

A born male has XY chromosomes, females XX, hence , males have all the female genetics to produce female parts, even eggs to fertilise, it is born females who don't have any male genetic material to build from, hence no info to get sperm or male parts.

I actually watched this on a TV show documentary with Morgan freeman as a host. So it better be true lol.

Glad to learn something new.

I wonder why this isn't a done thing already. Surely others have asked?

Worst case, a neovagina could be replaced down the line if this ever becomes an option.

I already have a vagina due to been post op.

I wonder if stem cells could be used some day to grow me things like ovaries, fallopian tubes and a uterus .. I know this will require me to have periods
I have been told by cis-female roommate that I am so lucky not get periods. Shame she cramps bad some months. but periods are part of being female.

but it would mean I will be able to fall pregnant and have the ultimate female experience of been pregnant. I know t-girl will never be able to give birth naturally due to our hips not being able to open like a cis-woman and I not sure if the post-op vagina could handle giving birth.. but I can have c-section.

how knows what can happen in the future..

Don't get too excited yet.  Stem cell research isn't that mature, and gene expression not that plastic.  To build an organ from pluripotent stem cells, the culture is spread over a type of scaffold and then bathed in a solution of nutrients and trigger chemicals to turn on the genes that code for the organ.  So, for an XY stem cell to build a vagina, the Y chromosome will have to be either replaced with an X, or perhaps it would work if it was removed entirely.  A culture of the resultant cells would have to be bound to the scaffold and then "grown" into an adult vagina. I haven't researched your citation yet, but I have not read anything in the journals I  generally review of this having been done.

Then there is the cost - more than either of us will earn this lifetime.  I think it is still science fiction, but the day will come.

Julie

Quote from: JulieBlair on April 19, 2014, 07:53:15 AM

Then there is the cost - more than either of us will earn this lifetime.  I think it is still science fiction, but the day will come.

I might earn the$$$$$$$$$. Over the course of my entire career anyway! Saving is the problem because of the need for food, shelter, et al. :D

There have been a few topics on this the last week or so. Don't get excited though. As a professional Paramedic I can tell you we are a long way off. The current problems are with rejection and the fact cis males do not have the genetic DNA coding to make this possible right now not even with stem cells. One attempt has been made and it was a failure after only 60 hours. Sorry for the buzz kill. :)

Not to be Debbie Downer, but I sincerely hope that the scientists spend their time and money figuring out how to use stem cells to cure Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and a bunch of crippling childhood diseases before they start allocating too much of their slender resources to artificial vaginas for MtF transgirls, especially when we already have access to rather successful treatments already.

Although the prospect is absolutely intriguing!

I'm not waiting around for this to be perfected.   We're turning the junk outside in the next couple of years if the orchi doesn't bring me the peace I need.

At the risk of being a real downer as well, with any sort of engineered or transplanted organ, there is a substantial (in the long run, perhaps even certain) chance that cancer will develop, or rejection will occur.  I'd much rather lose some sensation than die on account of this...

There are so many reasons why this wouldn't work out with an XY ("male") chromosome set.  It's not impossible.  For better or worse, our bodies were meant to work in the way that they do.  Biology has all sorts of barriers that scientists probably won't be able to get around for many years to go in order for this to work.  Still a cool idea, though.

Genetics rock!  ;D


Ales

I guess one can ask the same question about transplanting. I have read a study where three women had transplants done from there mothers, one rejected the uterus in a matter of days, one successfully gave birth to a baby, and one had three attempts at IVF fail but for the first time in her life experienced three menstrual cycles. Why can't something like that be done for us....the major problem blood supply. We as having been born genetically male lack the arteries that supply blood to the uterus so that the organ doesn't become necrotic.

Personal opinion, until they solve the blood supply problem, we will never have a uterus of our own.

Hmmm, if one can't really be grown due to a missing X chromosome or blood supply, wondering how long before we would see

[  ]  Organ Donor: Vagina/Penis    on a drivers license..  ?    :P

kidding aside.. I think it's like Jessica said... Rejection would be lots more likely than cancer.. 

Quote from: kariann330 on April 20, 2014, 06:32:20 PM
I guess one can ask the same question about transplanting. I have read a study where three women had transplants done from there mothers, one rejected the uterus in a matter of days, one successfully gave birth to a baby, and one had three attempts at IVF fail but for the first time in her life experienced three menstrual cycles. Why can't something like that be done for us....the major problem blood supply. We as having been born genetically male lack the arteries that supply blood to the uterus so that the organ doesn't become necrotic.

Personal opinion, until they solve the blood supply problem, we will never have a uterus of our own.

Not quite.  Blood vessels can be moved into positions where they need, such as in Coronary Artery Bypass Graft surgery, aka. CABG or open-heart surgery.  In this, veins from the leg are taken, cut up, and placed around blocked coronary arteries on the heart to provide blood supply to prevent/minimize a heart attack.  Think of it as a detour on a highway to move traffic around a bad car crash.

The main issue is in the receiver's immune system.  It's exactly like with organ transplants.  Everything inside of your body has a unique "self" marker on it: from blood cells to full organs.  Your immune system sees these markers and knows that it's ok.  If something doesn't have a "self" marker (such as bacteria, parasites, or donor organs), the immune system attacks it in an attempt to destroy it.  To prevent this, organ donor patients are given immunosupressants which decrease the immune system's functioning so that it does not cause problems with the new organ.  However, realize that this causes a significantly increased chance for infection, which can be lethal!  Organ rejection occurs when the immune system cannot be suppressed with drugs enough for the donor organ to function properly.  This is true with every organ, tissue, and cell that's given to a person.

Some of the major blocks to giving transwomen uteruses (uteri?) that I can think of include genetic viability (can a XY genome sustain a uterus like a XX?); multiple system factors (the ovaries interact with the pituitary gland in regulating sex hormones, which influences reproductive organs such as a uterus); and preventing this person from developing a severe, life-threatening infection due to the suppressed immune system.

With all of this in mind, is this sort of procedure really worthwhile?


Ales

First and foremost, a lot of people seem to be confused about what they actually did when they implanted the Vaginal tissue to give vaginas to those females who had medical issues.

They did not grow an entire vagina from scratch through DNA.
They used vaginal tissue and scaffolding to create the required shapes, then implanted such.

In discussions about the possible use of this technique for MTF transgenders, other options are available that are similar enough to vaginal tissue that they could be used. The current research, however, did not focus on anything similar to that, so it is still just in the 'plausible speculation' category.

Also, it is not based on DNA of the general host, but the DNA of the individual cell... and in fact, there is a significant portion of the female populace which have XY genes, but just have the appropriate marks on those genes to turn on the required genetic instructions such that they develop completely female.
Thus, it is about your genetics in general, and not the XY details.

So, while NOTHING is going to be available in the immediate future... in the long term, what seems plausible:
Vaginal construction using similar tissue from males, including the esophagus and other similar areas.
Genetic Alteration to 'turn on' the appropriate genes from the host's stem cells to form vaginal tissue. Now that second one sounds more implausible, but there was even a study released today where a mamal's liver was cured of a genetic disease using a process of injection that altered the liver on the genetic level.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/scientists-edit-dna-to-correct-adult-genes-and-cure-diseases-new-technique-alters-lifethreatening-mutations-with-pinpoint-accuracy-30205746.html
Of course, rejection is possible, but it all just depends on the individual and whatnot at that point.

So, nothing available for us, but new developments will occur, and there are many plausible ways in which all of this can proceed.

In terms of rejection are we talking about direct rejection of the organ itself, or rejection as in the cis male body lacks the ability to maintain a vagina?

I imagine a big reason it hasn't been attempted for a transgender woman is in large part based on politics. Genetic women would have a higher priority than us. Let's not forget, we are a minority.

I'm a far cry from a medical doctor, but my understanding is organs grown from stem cells using a patient's DNA do not carry the risk for rejection that donated organs do.

Also an XY person can indeed have a vagina. There are many XY women out there born with androgen insensitivity syndrome who develop a vagina. My understanding is male and female parts are formed based on hormones not XX or XY and the variants in between.

Basically the organ itself, but there would be no way to provide neural paths to the sensation area of implanted organs, a uterus, vagina, etc. That has to do with scar tissue issues on the severed nerve ends.  :)

It is not politics it is a science issue itself.

there is a lot of risk of implant or stem cell vagina, never really heard of stem cell ones but rejection is very possible due to dna, blood type and genetics. like someone said earlier males have xy cromosomes, females have xx, with that you have many risks, cancer is probably would be the biggest since if stem cell or implantation did occur, the dna would cause abnormal cells which is what cancer is. there are tons of risks involved with it, and myself wouldn't undergo that, as long as I have a vagina just from sex reassignment then im ok with it. it shouldn't matter if its cosmetic or real as a matter of a fact usually u get all the sensation of a real one after the surgery so all in all it doesn't really matter. stem cell research is still in its early stages and I wouldn't risk it for anything.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 22, 2014, 05:36:03 PM
Basically the organ itself, but there would be no way to provide neural paths to the sensation area of implanted organs, a uterus, vagina, etc. That has to do with scar tissue issues on the severed nerve ends.  :)

It is not politics it is a science issue itself.

Fortunately, those issues with severed nerve ends is a problem being worked on relentlessly for other fields such as amputations and to help those with severed spines and whatnot.

Whoever defeats the scar tissue formation will be rich beyond their wildest dreams. I sure would have helped a lot of my patients.