Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm not really talking about flirting although that can be part of this. This may be a jumble. I'm early in transition. I am just starting to think about how my interactions will change. And they will. Today I was joking with a friend who was female. I called her a name. As soon as it was out of my mouth I said, when I'm a guy I can't say that to you. She started to say disagree and then realized I was right. And really, I probably shouldn't have said it as a female, but it will be different as a guy.

And a bit ago I almost called someone here sweetie. And then I was like, is that sexist? I really wanted to just convey caring but would I say the same thing to a guy? Probably not. Some of you have probably read some of my other posts. For me this is a big, big deal because of what I grew up in. It was *not* a good scene. I know all about sexualizing and demeaning women. I don't ever want to be a part of that.

And maybe because the T is starting to hit, I've been thinking about the ladies a bit more. I sort of skipped out on flirting. But a part of me now thinks that flirting would be fun. But what makes flirting fun and what makes it creepy? If I tell a lady she looks good, does that mean I'm treating her like an object?

If I've ticked anyone off, I hope you can be gentle. This is raw stuff for me. I am not meaning to cause harm to anyone. And I'm not sure if anyone can answer this for me, but I had to get it out of my head.

honestly, you can tell a girl she's pretty and she might just say thank you and that's it. don't get mad if she doesn't reciprocate (some guys do..it's awkward...) but also, joking flirting is the easiest to do. i can't think of examples off the top of my head but i'm sure someone else could come in here and give you an example. one more thing though..friendzone isn't a real thing and don't girlfriend zone a girl, it's awkward. also a woman shouldn't have to say she has a boyfriend for you to back off. that just shows you have more respect for her boyfriend, a guy, then her for just saying no. got a little heavy there but some guys just..don't back off or respect a woman when she says no or doesn't show interest, they keep just pushing and pushing...

all in all, dating isn't hard, flirting isn't hard and it's easy to see when you've crossed that line. people will act weird once you've crossed that line most of the time..just don't over think it and be yourself. it comes easy once you just go with the flow but you will need to catch yourself with some things like calling girls certain names, etc. of course you will act different with a girl then you would with a guy (eg calling her sweetie) but sometimes those kinds of things DO make girls uncomfortable and you need to be aware of that because it could be cool when you presented as female but as male? probably not. and also, side note, you aren't entitled to anything even if she flirts back and you need to remember that too.

I do not have the social skills that invisiblemonsters seems to have, I'll just say that outright. I've had to figure things out more methodically.

I don't usually flirt with girls on purpose, but I have struggled with how to talk to them. There are certain words and turns of phrase that hold an entirely different charge when spoken by a male. I have been corrected occasionally for saying stuff that I am just not allowed to say anymore. It happened most for me when I was early in transition.

I think I tend to come across as nurturing and maybe a little bit swishy at times, which I'm sure gives me leeway. If I tell a woman she's pretty or has a nice outfit or whatever it seems to go over fine if they perceive me as either gay or very young. I tend to be made aware of having overstepped boundaries if they see me as a heterosexual or an age peer. Some of this is obviously inference and I can't really be sure of all the interpersonal stuff I'm navigating.

I do think this is a pretty normal and not well-mapped stage for most transpeople. I was not raised to ever see myself as threatening, and so I'm not always careful enough when I talk to women.

I don't have a lot of specific advice but I will say I feel like this usually works in our favor. Transmen seem less likely to be offensively coarse or domineering than cismen. Without planning to, I often steer mixed-gender public conversations away from rape jokes, overt sexual advances, etc and make allies of women who might not have noticed me otherwise. I don't know how I would proceed from there if I were interested in them, but ladies do sometimes make it clear they appreciate the politeness.

I don't want to start ranting about society but having been raised female is very good preparation for treating women with respect. Part of how I have learned to speak appropriately most of the time is just by imagining how I would react if the roles were reversed, and by remembering that my internal stuff has very little bearing on what I look like and how my actions come across.

Christopher,
Tone and delivery are just as important as the words. I'm sure there'll be some trial-and-error at first, but it shouldn't take too long to sort out. If you don't intend offense, then relax and you likely won't offend.

And, of course, keep in mind that some people will be offended no matter what you do, simply because they like to be unpleasant. If you meet any of those, don't take it as a reflection of you.

Good luck and happy flirting. :)

Teg

I wish I knew the answer too. I still like girls, before I transitioned I just would always get friend zoned for being nice and caring towards women, when my friends would treat them like dirt and they would love it, I just didnt get it.

Seen this article today and I'm still baffled that men say this stuff and actually pick up women.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/30/online-dating-pickup-lines_n_5207196.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000029 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/30/online-dating-pickup-lines_n_5207196.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000029)

Well, a female colleague called me a "slut" the other day. ;D

It was only in jest and mock-shock indignant (and I feel like I've gained a badge of honour)... but I can tell you a guy would never get away with saying that.

I'm shocked at that link  :-\

I have trouble firlting or chatting up girls, cos they confuse me and not sure what they want or what they are after, I tried being nice but keep getting friended zoned. Why do they want to date someone who is nasty and then they moan how much of a jerk they are and men all the same??

I'm a real good flirter most of the time I do it uncountiously though I've gotten alot of girls to like me by accident but I had to friendzone them, because I wasn't interested in them it was an accident, I didn't realize how much of a charm I had

Quote from: christopher on May 10, 2014, 11:08:16 PM
but it will be different as a guy.

Will it?

Quote from: christopher on May 10, 2014, 11:08:16 PM
And a bit ago I almost called someone here sweetie.

Dr Who Gets called sweetie all the time by RIVER

Moded my post. I Mean aaahh My head, sweetie is still ok right? Makes me wonder how much privalige with woman i had coz gay vibes.

i can be pretty awkward talkin to girls, if they are my friends, i'm fine, but if a chick i dont know starts talkin to me, yeah things can get awkward lol guys no problem, im just relaxed, but chicks whole different story lol

Thanks. This helps. I'm heading off to work in a minute, so I will give a better reply later.

So "friendzone" just means a girl considers you a friend, not relationship potential?

One more question. Is it ok to flirt if you are not really interested in a relationship? I'm pretty sure it is but just want to make sure. I mean, I have never had any interest in flirting until now. And I'm still too screwed up (working on it in therapy) to consider a relationship.

And some of this isn't even about flirting, it's just about being friendly and respect with women in life. "Friendzone" sounds fine with me. I'd just like to be a guy women feel good around.

Quote from: christopher on May 11, 2014, 09:21:25 AM
Thanks. This helps. I'm heading off to work in a minute, so I will give a better reply later.

So "friendzone" just means a girl considers you a friend, not relationship potential?

One more question. Is it ok to flirt if you are not really interested in a relationship? I'm pretty sure it is but just want to make sure. I mean, I have never had any interest in flirting until now. And I'm still too screwed up (working on it in therapy) to consider a relationship.

And some of this isn't even about flirting, it's just about being friendly and respect with women in life. "Friendzone" sounds fine with me. I'd just like to be a guy women feel good around.

No friendzoned means you have sexual, romantic, or physical attraction to her but she doesn't feel the same in order to get friendzoned one of you has to like eachother or either you took to long and she lost interest in you or you could be to nice some girls just wanna bad guy but friendzoning is not a good feeling either

In my experience I never have flirted purposely with a girl I wasn't interested in unless your a fan of hurting feelings not the best thing to do especially if your pretty damn attractive and have game not the best route I stopped doing that because I flirted with some girls I didn't like and it was horrible never doing that again.

I've been pretty shy and awkward for much of my life, but I've learned a few things along the way.

Slow down and be present in the moment.
Don't start out feeling like you have to "flirt" -- you've just met someone, and people are interesting; so who is this person?
Ask questions, and learn to listen: focus on what the other person is saying, and not on what you want to say next.
Be genuinely interested, and follow up on their answers -- if you have trouble thinking of what to say, here's a trick for doing this: pick a topic from what someone says, and follow up on that.

You: "Are you from around here?"
They: "No, I moved here from Seattle because of work."

Right away, you have three topics to follow up on: moving, Seattle, and work, and you have a choice of where to go next:

The obvious one, "What do you do?" isn't necessarily the best, IMO, because it doesn't do anything to establish rapport. But if you ask "Oh, that's a long way to move -- was it difficult?" or "I was in Seattle a couple of years ago, and it rained all the time. Do you like the climate better here?" you're asking something that also speaks to how you feel about things, and that can lead to finding common ground with the other person.

If you're stuck, instead of just looking blank, say something like "Huh -- that's interesting," and look like you're thinking while you figure out what to say next.

And just in general, be able to laugh at yourself, and treat people with kindness, honesty, and respect.

Quote from: rexyrex on May 11, 2014, 05:10:33 AM
I'm shocked at that link  :-\

I have trouble firlting or chatting up girls, cos they confuse me and not sure what they want or what they are after, I tried being nice but keep getting friended zoned. Why do they want to date someone who is nasty and then they moan how much of a jerk they are and men all the same??

I think the answer just came to me while reading your post. Fear of commitment. If you date someone that's a jerk you can leave at any time, because they are a jerk.

Personally I like nice guys. So some girls do.

Phrases like "I think of you as a friend" or "let's just be friends" is where the term "friendzone" comes from.
It's BS. A lot of self-proclaimed "nice guys" use the term in situations where they gave a woman something of value - be it time spent together, food, gifts, whatever - and think that means they're entitled to sex. Sometimes the term is used in frustration, because it sucks to have unrequited feelings for somebody, but that doesn't excuse the implications. Anybody genuinely expecting it to work like an exchange of goods/services needs to learn the difference between relationships and prostitution.

Not flirting-specific, but general conversation tip someone gave me: ask open-ended questions. If you ask the right questions, the other person will be the one talking. Example, if someone saw a movie, asking "was it any good?" is easily answered yes or no. Asking "What was it about?" or, "Who was in it?" invites them to talk about it, at which point you listen and pick up things you can comment on ("Oh, so-and-so, weren't they in [some other movie]?") or ask more about.

Well if I can say something, I find shy guys really cute. I find really confident guys cute. Hell I find all guys cute in their own unique ways. Calling me sweetie, hon, or any other term that is warm and open is OK. Call me babydoll after you get to know me and I melt. I don't find the word "Slut", the "W" word or the "C" very flattering and extremely insulting unless it is from another M2F or girlfriend. I do find it OK in the throws of passion except for the "C" word, but that is a different story for a different section. Down and dirty, Oh yeah Baby. :embarrassed: I might have said too much there.

Just be guys, guys and be yourselves. Being respectful in the beginning with flirting and a little shyness I find is extrememly sexy. Way more sexy than be over confident and making assumptions that I will do something just because you are the bestlooking guy in the place. Even if it is true, just don't act that way. This is just me and other girls might be different, we all are. As a matter of fact the thing I find most attractive whether you look like Vin Diesel or Louie Anderson is a self confidence and shyness mixed together. Kind of makes me feel like I am worth it and you are too.

Also, I am a sucker for cheesy pickup lines. :embarrassed: It means to me that you think that I am worth it to be nervous over which shows me more that you are attracted to me than just saying, "Oh, you are so beautiful" and so on.

Sorry to butt in guys on your section and hope this helps a little.

Quote from: christopher on May 11, 2014, 09:21:25 AM
Thanks. This helps. I'm heading off to work in a minute, so I will give a better reply later.

So "friendzone" just means a girl considers you a friend, not relationship potential?

One more question. Is it ok to flirt if you are not really interested in a relationship? I'm pretty sure it is but just want to make sure. I mean, I have never had any interest in flirting until now. And I'm still too screwed up (working on it in therapy) to consider a relationship.

And some of this isn't even about flirting, it's just about being friendly and respect with women in life. "Friendzone" sounds fine with me. I'd just like to be a guy women feel good around.

friend zone isn't a real thing. it's something guys made up because being nice to a woman didn't get them sex. they think they're entitled to it if they do nice things for a girl, or just be nice in general towards them. i didn't know treating a woman nicely meant she owed you anything but apparently others do and that's wrong.

you can flirt if you aren't in it for a relationship. hell, people flirt without even knowing they are!! some people just mistake social ques or how someone is acting as flirting too, so you'd need to be careful of that but that's a general rule for anyone, really. talking to girls can be tough but honestly, a lot of girls make it easy to talk to them because a majority of them tend to be out going. if you don't give off those creepy vibes, they might not mind engaging in just a friendly convo with you. the first step to it is just being nice and friendly, as you would with anyone else. from there, it progresses and you learn what's okay and not okay because everyone is different.

I like this comic about friendzoning.  Maybe it helps guys that maybe don't get it understand where we are coming from.

http://mamamantis.tumblr.com/post/37818539849/please-do-not-remove-artists-comments-or-repost (http://mamamantis.tumblr.com/post/37818539849/please-do-not-remove-artists-comments-or-repost)

Quote from: invisiblemonsters on May 11, 2014, 12:38:27 PM
friend zone isn't a real thing. it's something guys made up because being nice to a woman didn't get them sex. they think they're entitled to it if they do nice things for a girl, or just be nice in general towards them. i didn't know treating a woman nicely meant she owed you anything but apparently others do and that's wrong.

you can flirt if you aren't in it for a relationship. hell, people flirt without even knowing they are!! some people just mistake social ques or how someone is acting as flirting too, so you'd need to be careful of that but that's a general rule for anyone, really. talking to girls can be tough but honestly, a lot of girls make it easy to talk to them because a majority of them tend to be out going. if you don't give off those creepy vibes, they might not mind engaging in just a friendly convo with you. the first step to it is just being nice and friendly, as you would with anyone else. from there, it progresses and you learn what's okay and not okay because everyone is different.

Friendzoning is definately a real thing and no some of us guys really don't expect anything back everyone just assumes we want to hit it and quit it, some girls don't know a good man when they see one.

Quote from: Brandon on May 11, 2014, 01:58:04 PM

Friendzoning is definately a real thing and no some of us guys really don't expect anything back everyone just assumes we want to hit it and quit it, some girls don't know a good man when they see one.

loooool when you're older, you'll realize friend zone isn't a real thing. you want to know why a girl decides to be your friend instead of romantic? even if you are nice, and they say they want a "nice guy" but don't go after you? it's because you..you know..act like a friend. a girl isn't gonna just jump your bones because you're nice to her. you actually have to show some interest. doing things FRIENDS do, isn't gonna give her a hint you're into her (like listening to her complain about other guys, etc. this is stuff FRIENDS do....not someone who is into her does only...) and even if you do act into her and you're nice and w/e else, she might just not be interested and you can't blame her for that. a woman has a right to say no and not be obligated to give you anything or be called names and w/e else just because you show interest in her.

oh and one more thing? saying "not all men are like that" just makes you a part of the problem. you should acknowledge the fact that girls deal with guys every day who hit on them or whatever else. they're gonna think a guy just wants sex but that doesn't mean she thinks all guys are like that but with what she deals with? she's gonna act the same to you as she does every other guy and it has nothing to do with you but her own safety probably. you honestly can't blame a woman for not being interested in you, saying how she's this and that just because she didn't accept your advances and w/e else. that just makes you a part of the problem, that makes you exactly like all the other guys if you get mad, or say these things because you're treating her like an object, just like they are. you aren't acknowledging that there's an issue, you're just becoming a part of it.

you should read the comic jen posted because it's pretty accurate.

Quote from: invisiblemonsters on May 11, 2014, 02:35:49 PM
loooool when you're older, you'll realize friend zone isn't a real thing. you want to know why a girl decides to be your friend instead of romantic? even if you are nice, and they say they want a "nice guy" but don't go after you? it's because you..you know..act like a friend. a girl isn't gonna just jump your bones because you're nice to her. you actually have to show some interest. doing things FRIENDS do, isn't gonna give her a hint you're into her (like listening to her complain about other guys, etc. this is stuff FRIENDS do....not someone who is into her does only...) and even if you do act into her and you're nice and w/e else, she might just not be interested and you can't blame her for that. a woman has a right to say no and not be obligated to give you anything or be called names and w/e else just because you show interest in her.

oh and one more thing? saying "not all men are like that" just makes you a part of the problem. you should acknowledge the fact that girls deal with guys every day who hit on them or whatever else. they're gonna think a guy just wants sex but that doesn't mean she thinks all guys are like that but with what she deals with? she's gonna act the same to you as she does every other guy and it has nothing to do with you but her own safety probably. you honestly can't blame a woman for not being interested in you, saying how she's this and that just because she didn't accept your advances and w/e else. that just makes you a part of the problem, that makes you exactly like all the other guys if you get mad, or say these things because you're treating her like an object, just like they are. you aren't acknowledging that there's an issue, you're just becoming a part of it.

you should read the comic jen posted because it's pretty accurate.

Technically it is, All it is is liking someone who doesn't feel the same some girls don't wanna date nice guys some wanr bad guys I've talked to enough girls to know that and most relationships start with friendships first duh, And it's true some girls don't know a good man when they find one and then they wanna complain and say aint know good mn out here like I said alot of us guys aren't expecting anything in return I'm sorry most girls do think all we wanna do is smash or think thats what we all want, I don't have to be nice to get it and act just because I want it I don't treat women like an object. i'm not that type of guy if I wanna hit it I will tell you in a heart beat.

Quote from: Brandon on May 11, 2014, 02:53:34 PM


Technically it is, All it is is liking someone who doesn't feel the same some girls don't wanna date nice guys some wanr bad guys I've talked to enough girls to know that and most relationships start with friendships first duh, And it's true some girls don't know a good man when they find one and then they wanna complain and say aint know good mn out here like I said alot of us guys aren't expecting anything in return I'm sorry most girls do think all we wanna do is smash or think thats what we all want, I don't have to be nice to get it and act just because I want it I don't treat women like an object. i'm not that type of guy if I wanna hit it I will tell you in a heart beat.

friend zone and a girl rejecting you are totally different things. if you can't tell the difference then idk what to say to you. friend zone is where guys expect sex because they're nice to a girl, being rejected is just a girl not being interested in you even if you show interest. they're completely different things. you will realize that the "bad boy" phase is exactly that..a phase. do you think women settle down with bad boys? someone who can't keep a job? raise a family? who their parents don't like? no. and as i said, girls think these things because it's what they're used to and it still has nothing to do with you.

i'm not gonna keep arguing over this because it's getting off topic. just know this, you could be the best guy in the world, doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to turn you down. and if you start off with a friendship and you keep acting like her friend, treating her like an actual human then say she "friend zoned" you, you're a part of the problem, not her. even if you show interest in her and she still just wants to be your friend and you still say she "friend zoned" you just because she didn't accept your advance..again..you're a part of the problem. women still don't owe you anything and don't have to be interested in you because you treat her like a human and act like a decent human yourself, honestly.

Quote from: invisiblemonsters on May 11, 2014, 03:09:56 PM
friend zone and a girl rejecting you are totally different things. if you can't tell the difference then idk what to say to you. friend zone is where guys expect sex because they're nice to a girl, being rejected is just a girl not being interested in you even if you show interest. they're completely different things. you will realize that the "bad boy" phase is exactly that..a phase. do you think women settle down with bad boys? someone who can't keep a job? raise a family? who their parents don't like? no. and as i said, girls think these things because it's what they're used to and it still has nothing to do with you.

i'm not gonna keep arguing over this because it's getting off topic. just know this, you could be the best guy in the world, doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to turn you down. and if you start off with a friendship and you keep acting like her friend, treating her like an actual human then say she "friend zoned" you, you're a part of the problem, not her. even if you show interest in her and she still just wants to be your friend and you still say she "friend zoned" you just because she didn't accept your advance..again..you're a part of the problem. women still don't owe you anything and don't have to be interested in you because you treat her like a human and act like a decent human yourself, honestly.

You don't have to want sex to get friendzoned thats my point you could just want to date her and she has no interest thats what it is she sees you as a friend only hence friendzoned.

well, ok, I seem to have started something. I understand what friendzone is. I am not worried about that. I'm with the women on this. Knowing what it means, I find it kind of lame.

And I guess this conversation has reassured me. I think I'll be ok. I like people, be they women or men or whatever. I like to listen. I want to know the person. I care and don't want to do harm. (corny, I know).

So as long as I remember that I'm a guy now and that creates some new boundaries for me, I guess I'll be fine in the day to day stuff.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 11, 2014, 07:26:40 AM
Will it?

Dr Who Gets called sweetie all the time by RIVER

Moded my post. I Mean aaahh My head, sweetie is still ok right? Makes me wonder how much privalige with woman i had coz gay vibes.

yes, I think being a guy will change things. I do believe there is such a thing as male privilege and I also know that unfortunately, there a history of guys treating women like objects. I know not all men do, but it's been enough of a societal factor that it's a part of our (western) culture now. Grace gave the example of female college jokingly calling her a slut. And it was ok, because it was between two women. As a female I've done that kind of joking, I can't imagine doing it as a guy. It's too loaded. It's a term used to blame and marginalize women. And as a man I have to be conscious of the fact that I'm part of the group that has done the victimizing and marginalizing.

And before someone jumps all over me, I am not saying all men are like that. I know they aren't. But that reality still exists. So as a man, I have to accept that's part of the reality. I have to accept that women may have some caution, fear, anger about things I do or say that aren't directly about me.

And I don't even know why I asked about flirting. I don't really see myself being a flirt. I'm more of a hopeless bumbling sort who is too messed up to even try to have a relationship or sex at this point in my life (but suddenly someday seems possible).

And too all the ladies who commented. Thank you I appreciate it. And Jess42 you are definitely not butting into anything  :D

PS- I'm lame, I've never seen Dr Who

I, personally, haven't really had the problems talking to women the way guys do. I've been openly bisexual for years now, which has slowly progressed to a very heavy female lean, only other FTMs and perhaps a very special guy being the only exceptions. Therefore, talking to females has never really been that much of a problem. The only difference is that now, they would have to get to know me as Reuben the straight male, instead of Samantha/Sam the lesbian female. Also, they'd have to be able to handle it (so to speak) when I start testosterone, and after surgery. However, since I was raised in the female culture, and I'm also a victim of estrogen (though to a lesser degree of females), I know how to treat women better, and how they want to be treated/how they feel, etc; to some degree more than most cismales.

Quote from: christopher on May 11, 2014, 09:20:40 PM
And I don't even know why I asked about flirting. I don't really see myself being a flirt. I'm more of a hopeless bumbling sort who is too messed up to even try to have a relationship or sex at this point in my life (but suddenly someday seems possible).
And too all the ladies who commented. Thank you I appreciate it. And Jess42 you are definitely not butting into anything  :D

PS- I'm lame, I've never seen Dr Who

That part christopher is what I find the most adorable in a guy that flirts with me. It is hard to explain but it makes me feel that he feels that he is not worthy of my attention. Do ya' know what I mean? It makes me feel better and more confident in myself and feel that this guy is truly worth my attention.

Quote from: christopher on May 11, 2014, 09:20:40 PM
And I don't even know why I asked about flirting. I don't really see myself being a flirt. I'm more of a hopeless bumbling sort who is too messed up to even try to have a relationship or sex at this point in my life (but suddenly someday seems possible).

I definitely relate to ya there. I can do plenty of flirting in IMs, texts, etc.; but when it comes to talking to someone I actually know, or in person, I kinda freeze up and look all dumb. Like, I haven't been able to see myself having sex with anyone for a very long time now. The "someday seems possible" thing is for sure true for me.

I'm just starting my journey & I get nervous too, esp around ladies that I find attractive, whether aesthetically or internally. Its amazing what a warm smile does & just being yourself. As you roam further into you the pieces will come together & it will get easier.

And its so true what Jess42 said about cheesy pick up lines, the ladies eat it up! It makes them laugh & breaks the ice...perfect combo!

And as I always say...a confident man is a desired man so own it bro :)

Quote from: BORNTOFLY on May 13, 2014, 07:53:23 PM
And its so true what Jess42 said about cheesy pick up lines, the ladies eat it up! It makes them laugh & breaks the ice...perfect combo!

No lie, I do love 'em. But one word of advice, if you are gonna feed me a cheesy pickup line, you better have some wine (not whine :)) to go with it. And I ain't talking about Night Train or MD20/20 either. If we hit it off, that may come later cause I get wild on the cheap stuff. ;) :embarrassed:

BORNTOFLY, you got it right, confidence without being conceted is a really good thing. But like I said I like the shyness too but you have to have the conficence to overcome that shyness.

I do need to add one thing though that there are some girls out there that are just as into themselves as some guys that think every guy is drooling over them and would bow down to their every whim. Don't let those girls discourage you. A rude or mean person is so not worth your attention and even if you do eventually get it, they are not fun people to be around.

Playing hard to get is one thing and I love to play it but if someone is rude and just outright mean, leave her alone. Like I said I love playing hard to get but if you catch me looking at you twice and quickly looking away, you definately have my interest. I may make ya' work a little for my attention but not too awfully hard though. ;) Just enjoy the game and see it just as that, a game. Something that's supposed to be fun no matter how awkward it may feel.

Well said Jess42, its always awesome to see girls be the cheerleaders for the guys, as no matter how much we got it together we're still scratching our heads sometimes when it comes to the ladies! :)

And very true...wine & dine the ladies, not whine n dine ;)

Like anything else quality is more rare so its a numbers game. Even if you think a girl is ''out of your league'' just start chatting w/ her as it builds experience & confidence. Then eventually your soulmate will be gleaming at you from across the room...all in time bro

I like politeness, respect, charm, wit, and guys who don't come off as predatory, creepy, fake or are unapologetically cocky type-A jerks.   Just the right brand of weird might be OK, but the wrong weirdo is a complete turn-off.   And buy me a drink.  I like that.  If I have to buy a guy a vinegar and water in return, he'll know I think he's a complete douchebag.

I'm sort of new to this "getting hit on by guys" thing, but after SRS my wife and I are likely to play the cougar sandwich game.  Who wants to get REALLY lucky? LOL

Quote from: BORNTOFLY on May 14, 2014, 01:05:39 PM
Well said Jess42, its always awesome to see girls be the cheerleaders for the guys, as no matter how much we got it together we're still scratching our heads sometimes when it comes to the ladies! :)

Yep and we like to keep it that way. If a guy isn't willing to put forth a little effort well.... I'm definately not the girl that will walk up to you, slap you in the face and plant a big one on your lips. ;) I am the one that will be a little elusive, shyly look down when our eyes meet, may smile to myself or have a little giggle with a friend that I am sitting with and if you catch me looking again then I am definately interested. I am a "You're a guy so take charge" type of girl. Like I said it is basically a dance or a game and defintely something to be enjoyed by both people.

Yeah being cocky & a douchebag is no bueno!   I def have alpha male traits but if you're genuine & you can walk the talk then its all goood...plus women have a jedi sense & can pick up on bs a mile away.

So Jess42...Do you ladies all get together secretly & share tips on how to keep guys guessing & chasing??  they say its an urban myth but I think its legit ;)

Quote from: BORNTOFLY on May 14, 2014, 02:48:57 PM
Yeah being cocky & a douchebag is no bueno!   I def have alpha male traits but if you're genuine & you can walk the talk then its all goood...plus women have a jedi sense & can pick up on bs a mile away.

So Jess42...Do you ladies all get together secretly & share tips on how to keep guys guessing & chasing??  they say its an urban myth but I think its legit ;)

You are right about women picking up on things.  I can read faces and I'd take all of your money at poker if I had any interest in hypermasculine competitive activities whatsoever, but I don't and you can keep your cash.

And keeping guys guessing and chasing is pretty childish.  Once you reach a certain age, wasting time unnecessarily is a no-no.  I haven't been "one of the girls" in the inner circle for very long and I know I'm a bit late to the party, but we sort of know within about two minutes if you're going to be in or out and we don't normally change our minds.  If you get any backlash, it's a hint you're probably best off looking elsewhere.  If we come back for you, it's a good sign.  We DO share stories about getting hit on by idiots, creeps and clueless tools though.

In regards to the friendzone: remember that it's not a real thing. A girl will either like you or she wont and no one needs a label to feel better about being rejected. If you know how to talk to people (and it's really easy as long as you're confident and respectful) you wont have to believe in the friendzone because you know that relatioships only come in romantic or platonic intentions. That's the end of it

Anyway...people in the real world are never going to be as offended as they are on the internet. Be yourself, be courteous, and dont put too much thought into how you're coming off to the other person. Just talk. It's easier than you think.

Quote from: BORNTOFLY on May 14, 2014, 02:48:57 PM
Yeah being cocky & a douchebag is no bueno!   I def have alpha male traits but if you're genuine & you can walk the talk then its all goood...plus women have a jedi sense & can pick up on bs a mile away.

So Jess42...Do you ladies all get together secretly & share tips on how to keep guys guessing & chasing??  they say its an urban myth but I think its legit ;)

I'll definately never tell. Just enjoy the dance. >:-) :angel: But seriously it is all about your approach as to how I react. If you are confident I will be more shy so you have to make me feel comfortable enough to open up, if you are shy I will be a little less shy to boost your confidence enough. Like I said I want you to take the lead.

A little more in depth explaination: Hypothetically I am interested in identical twins so looks aren't a factor. One approaches me and asks what I am drinking, then my name and nice to meet you and all of that. I will be way more shy around that confident guy. Oh yeah I am still very interested but shy so it is up to you to make me feel comfortable enough to open up. OK wipe the board clean from that scenario, now the other twin is a little less confident and sends me a drink of whatever I am drinking. Definately I will give the waiter or waitress a note to give to him thanking him. I will make more eye contact and smile and then if he still can't build up the courage, I'll invite him over. Still I am very interested but he is shy and I will try to boost his confidence enough to feel comfortable enough to take the reigns. Same level of interest because looks are identical but two totally different reactions from me depending on you and your appraoch.

Does that take away some of the confusion of how women act toward guys and why our actions are so unpredictable. There really is no confusion or guessing to it. Believe me, If I like you you will know.

Yep true Jess42..its a dance but that's the best part ;)

And thanks for shedding more light...its interesting to see how the initial ''game'' & ultimately more is played out. Oh how we love thy ladies! :)

Quote from: BORNTOFLY on May 14, 2014, 05:00:01 PM
Yep true Jess42..its a dance but that's the best part ;)

And thanks for shedding more light...its interesting to see how the initial ''game'' & ultimately more is played out. Oh how we love thy ladies! :)

You are very welcome. Ahh, thank you, that was so sweet and oh how we ladies love you guys too. I will always be on the sidelines cheering all of you on. ;)

As for the dance, the "slow dance" is definately my favorite part. Metaphorically when all the formalities are out of the way and two people can truly get to know one another and then go from there. Actually metophorically and in real life. That is when the closeness begins. Again this is just me but definately if I will slow dance with you, you got me hooked. Still maybe not quite fallen but definately trippin' for sure ;).

Words of wisdom Jess42...thanks :)

And maybe one of these days I will see ya on the dance floor & we can banter more about the ''game''  ;)

Quote from: BORNTOFLY on May 14, 2014, 08:15:25 PM
Words of wisdom Jess42...thanks :)

And maybe one of these days I will see ya on the dance floor & we can banter more about the ''game''  ;)

Well hon, you gotta lead me to the dancefloor. Like you said you are an apha male type. Whish is exactly my type. :embarrassed: If we ever meet take charge and don't ask but tell me you want that dance. ;)

I really hope that I helped you understand how we girls think. :)