Susan's Place Transgender Resources

so i will be out 1 year later this month (not sure if i should be happy or pist off(nhs stuff is moving very slowly))  ??? ??? ???
what does everyone count as full time or rle? because i wear female clothing (underwear and outerwear) all the time and every day, ok this is some times a t-shirt and 9 times out of 10 a pair of jeans. i dont always shave my facial hair as i suffer from a sensitive face and i only wear make up if im going out shopping or something which is most weekends.

is this what you would call full time

Full time is basically when you live 24/7 as the target gender. In some cases a legal name change must be made as well as I.D. changed to reflect the new gender. They want to see total social immersion as well as integration at work, church or wherever. Some places require HRT and want to see financial planning for SRS and any other surgeries necessary. It does vary widely though. The one year RLE is a WPATH requirement for SRS.  :)

RLE is defined as living in your prefered gender 24/7 at work, socially or in volunteer work. It is based, correctly or not, on the opinion that if individual can assimilate and be comfortable in society as their preferred gender then the chance or regret will be low following GRS.

Contrary to some opinion there is no requirement in WPATH guides for RLE for hormonal reassignment, just surgical.

My personal opinion is that is sensible.

Quote from: Cindy on June 03, 2014, 11:04:22 AM
My personal opinion is that is sensible.

Definitely mine as well! :)

I must admit I didn't think so before RLE!!!

It seemed so scary....

But I did learn how to fit in, even though I decided to fit in like a flashlight on a dark night.

Is this a legal question or a thought question?  Im not too familiar with the legal aspects to be honest.  What you described is pretty much where I've been with the exception that Ive stayed close to that androgyny line as far as tops. To be honest I really don't know what full-time means to me anymore beside the dangerous way of applying external views to it; as in full-time=being gendered female most of the time.  Problem I'm having right now is the first thing that changed with other people is they don't aknowledge my gender in person anymore, sirs and maams both extremely rare.  Besides passing, I pretty much dress and speak as if I was "full-time".  now rle typically refers to living legally as your target gender, which so widely varies even among cis people I cant fathom how that would be determined, something I should probably research...

Quote from: Cindy on June 03, 2014, 11:04:22 AM
RLE is defined as living in your prefered gender 24/7 at work, socially or in volunteer work. It is based, correctly or not, on the opinion that if individual can assimilate and be comfortable in society as their preferred gender then the chance or regret will be low following GRS.

Contrary to some opinion there is no requirement in WPATH guides for RLE for hormonal reassignment, just surgical.

My personal opinion is that is sensible.

Sorry, but what does "living in your prefered gender" even mean though?  It used to make so much sense when I was dysphoric and far from myself, now that I feel a bit more in tune that lost its meaning completely to me...

It means that if you are gender fluid you live gender fluid, if you are female you live female, if male - male.

The concept is can you live as you in society.

Quote from: ashrock on June 03, 2014, 11:17:20 AM
Sorry, but what does "living in your prefered gender" even mean though?

If you are FtM-living and socializing as a male only.
If you are MtF-living and socializing as female only.
Flip/flopping back and forth does not count.
This is to help prevent or minimize regret following SRS, nothing more sinister.  :)

Fair enough.  I don't really flip flop, I just socialize as female as I can (hard when you aren't completely passing).  Like I said, when I pass better I'd more call it full-time, don't ever want to be a guy, and it hurts a bit when people see me that way.

Just make sure your Therapist logs your first official day of full time RLE. The prospective surgeon will want to know and have it verified before scheduling you.  :)

Quote from: ashrock on June 03, 2014, 11:26:38 AM
Fair enough.  I don't really flip flop, I just socialize as female as I can (hard when you aren't completely passing).  Like I said, when I pass better I'd more call it full-time, don't ever want to be a guy, and it hurts a bit when people see me that way.

And that is what RLE is all about, learning.

Pretty much what everyone else has already said; Living and presenting as female in every aspect of your life. Where I live (according to my psychologist) some doctors do away with the requirements and would wait as little as 6 months for SRS recommendation ~ and seeing as my psychologist is a specialist who has been working with trans individuals for 30+ years (probably more), she would sooner offer recommendation if she can just tell that the individual is obviously ready.

I honestly find RLE to be a bit misguided at times (in terms of the initial intent & description, not the SRS non-regret requirement) ~ especially since its hard to assimilate myself as female in a city that is predominately old fashioned hispanics that still SIR me based on predisposed beliefs... the only time I'm ever safe from negative treatment is on the phone at my office, apparently my voice is female enough that I get "Señorita" or "amor" every time (which is flattering), but in public.. its hard to get a good grasp on whether or not I can happily live as my preferred gender when the rest of society still treats me as if I'm male. Granted; despite the impossibly ->-bleeped-<-ty time i've been having in this aspect, i regret nothing and love everything about being female... i just don't think that RLE is a good indicator when you are surrounded by uncompromising people. In the end the only way I can see RLE going bad is under this definition; in which terms would result in people saying something more along the lines of "I hate being trans" rather than "I hate living as a woman.." because, lets be honest, thats how it goes... if we were treated as equal females from the start, then transitioning would probably be and feel much simpler than it is.

From a scientific/psychological point of view however ~ I think its an exceptional tool regarding the regret of getting SRS/GRS, because to be honest, before transition, the idea seemed crazy to me but also seemed like a fairy tale fantasy... 2 months later, I can't stand my genitals, and now 3.5 months later, I'm 75% inclined towards getting SRS in the future, with the remaining 25% being restrictive thoughts based on the idea of no longer having something i've had and have become familiar with for a quarter life-time, and having the opposite equipment and imaging using it for everything i currently use what I have for... So even though i was never one of those "I want my parts gone NOW!" types, if I was, I'm glad that RLE exists to keep me from making hasty decisions about irreversible procedures (IMHO).. Plus, I have friends who have told me some serious horror stories of people transitioning for only 1-2 months, falsifying documentation to get hasty and desperate SRS, waking up and having a crisis after the surgery is done :S

so would you say that i am fulltime as i always wear female clothing, wear make up when i'm out in public and a female hair cut, just dont take any notice of the skate shoe or just imagine they are some sexy killa heels
most of the time i wear a blouse and some girly jeans

Hi, to the NHS, unless you have changed your name  by deed poll or other means and changed all your documentation to reflect this, as well as go to work or socially  mix presenting as female, then this is not RLE. To my therapist, my RLE started when I could prove I changed my name and details. (NHS Wales)

Hope that helps

Nikki

Quote from: nikkit72 on June 03, 2014, 02:38:26 PM
Hi, to the NHS, unless you have changed your name  by deed poll or other means and changed all your documentation to reflect this, as well as go to work or socially  mix presenting as female, then this is not RLE. To my therapist, my RLE started when I could prove I changed my name and details. (NHS Wales)

Hope that helps

Nikki

im changing my name in august its kinda like a 21st birthday present
i have always been more sociable with females and i am looking for a job in a more feminine environment (iv had really bad xperiences with the men)

Los Angeles, CA here...

My (former) therapist is pretty well known in the trans* care world.  According to her, no two people are exactly alike, so it's a case-by-case thing as far as she is concerned.  In my case, I was considered full-time on the day I stopped presenting myself to the world as what would be interpreted by most as male.  I told her via email one day that I had made my decision to go PermaJill, and that I had already been full time for two months.  She started my "clock" backdated to then, I had a few more sessions where we seemed to mostly talk about wine and heavy metal (per WPATH guidelines).  I got my full HRT letter last July and my SRS walking papers in March.

She would not have done that for everyone, mind you.  I don't have an employer, and it seems I will never need one.   My wife is very successful and our families are both very well off these days.  At first I didn't think a full transition would be for me, and I was hesitant to even try estrogen (big dummy moment).  After all, I had convinced myself I was actually non-binary and I was truly afraid of the unknown.  At one early session, she told me that I was actually the PERFECT candidate to transition successfully, and that most transpeople would want to smack me upside the head for not doing it yesterday.  After all, I am built just like Julia Child...  Had I been disowned, divorcing, unemployed, extremely unpassable, had kids and/or struggled financially, she would have been hesitant to recommend transitioning until I could do so successfully and keep me on a therapeutic dose of estrogen until that time.   In her experience, unsuccessful transitions too often end in preventable tragedies, and this is what therapists must avoid at all costs.   

The answer is that it depends on your situation and your therapist's take on it.   Some are more likely to give you the letter ASAP, some want to cover their own asses first, and some are gatekeepers who see a cash cow every time a transperson walks in.   If you run across one who wont even give you HRT until you are full time for a year, it's time to run screaming.     

Living 100% in your gender and having a legal name change.

Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on June 03, 2014, 03:37:31 PM
Living 100% in your gender and having a legal name change.

My legal name change will not actually happen until 9 days after my orchi, but I have SRS papers.

In Los Angeles, I tried to get my endo to fill out my papers in July when I got full HRT (had been on low dose since January and full time since March).  Then again in August.  Then again in October.  I got them in early December and filed my papers in court.  The date I got was July 24 due to budget cuts.  Had I moved to another county, I could have had it within a month.

Quote from: Elanore joey on June 03, 2014, 02:59:21 PM
im changing my name in august its kinda like a 21st birthday present
i have always been more sociable with females and i am looking for a job in a more feminine environment (iv had really bad xperiences with the men)

That is when the NHS therepists will recognize the beginning of your RLE. When you go to see your therapist, remember to take documented proof of name change and all the changes to your driving license, bank details, mortgage etc. Only then are most of them comfortable in progressing with further treatments. If you do not then you will only delay things further.

Ask me how I know this...  >:( D'Oh

i havnt even had my first appointment with my therapist iv been waiting 10 months. my gp has been trying to chase them up but she says it like banging her head against a brick wall, so me and my gp have been keeping a record/log of when iv been taking steps towards my new gender 

Quote from: Elanore joey on June 03, 2014, 05:33:17 PM
i havnt even had my first appointment with my therapist iv been waiting 10 months. my gp has been trying to chase them up but she says it like banging her head against a brick wall, so me and my gp have been keeping a record/log of when iv been taking steps towards my new gender

Well, there is still a whole bucket load of things you can do. Hair removal, voice, mannerisms to name but  a few. I hooe the appointment comes soon for you though.

@ Jill F your WPATH guidelines insist you talk about wine and Heavy Metal ? This I like. Seems better than the WPATH guidelines this side of the pond. Rock on ! Or rocks off as the case may be.  ;D Sorry, could not resist.

Quote from: nikkit72 on June 03, 2014, 05:43:49 PM
Well, there is still a whole bucket load of things you can do. Hair removal, voice, mannerisms to name but  a few. I hooe the appointment comes soon for you though.

I haven't had laser. I haven't worked on my voice (seems hard and I'm lazy). I haven't changed my mannerisms (I've been gender incongruent foreva though). Yet, I'm perceived as female 100 percent of the time if I wear makeup. If I don't and wear men's clothes, it's like 75 percent of the time. In fact, I checked myself into a detox as a man, and before they let me in, they wanted to know if I'm trans (her exact word were "are you really a woman?" or do you live an alternate lifestyle.) It was funny. And I had to wait 10 hours to get my own room, as they said I'm too feminine looking and curvy to be in a room with a man. They said they'd rather put me in a room with a woman, but can't since no SRS or name change or anything.

So, by the definitions here I'm the least full-time person here as all I do is take hormones, and I'm not even thinking about anything else cause I can't right now. I mean I have a BF, so there's that. Plus, I can't pass as a man unless I stop HRT, and even then...So, some of these definitions seem unfair to someone who is poor, stuck in Fitlthadelphia, and on probation. I mean why would I spend time on my voice, If it's hard to sound like a man as is? Why change my mannerisms, if I already act like a woman without trying. I will have laser, but right now I'm just trying to get my ->-bleeped-<- together.

So, to me, being full-time is either (A) when you are obviously presenting as female and someone has to be a douche to sir you (or ma'am for FTMs) and/or (B) when you pass as female because of hormonal and genetic reasons without trying. I do wear women's clothes and makeup 100 percent of the time though. My hair is short and boyish howeva. I'm going to get extensions.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on June 03, 2014, 06:10:53 PM
I haven't had laser. I haven't worked on my voice (seems hard and I'm lazy). I haven't changed my mannerisms (I've been gender incongruent foreva though). Yet, I'm perceived as female 100 percent of the time if I wear makeup. If I don't and wear men's clothes, it's like 75 percent of the time. In fact, I checked myself into a detox as a man, and before they let me in, they wanted to know if I'm trans (her exact word were "are you really a woman?" or do you live an alternate lifestyle.) It was funny. And I had to wait 10 hours to get my own room, as they said I'm too feminine looking and curvy to be in a room with a man. They said they'd rather put me in a room with a woman, but can't since no SRS or name change or anything.

So, by the definitions here I'm the least full-time person here as all I do is take hormones, and I'm not even thinking about anything else cause I can't right now. I mean I have a BF, so there's that. Plus, I can't pass as a man unless I stop HRT, and even then...So, some of these definitions seem unfair to someone who is poor, stuck in Fitlthadelphia, and on probation. I mean why would I spend time on my voice, If it's hard to sound like a man as is? Why change my mannerisms, if I already act like a woman without trying. I will have laser, but right now I'm just trying to get my ->-bleeped-<- together.

So, to me, being full-time is either (A) when you are obviously presenting as female and someone has to be a douche to sir you (or ma'am for FTMs) and/or (B) when you pass as female because of hormonal and genetic reasons without trying. I do wear women's clothes and makeup 100 percent of the time though. My hair is short and boyish howeva. I'm going to get extensions.

i dont know were you are but in Europe you have the right to be checked in to the clinic as your chosen gender as long as you present your self as that gender just thought i would make sure you know that law if im ever told i cant use ladies changing facilities when shopping i kick up a massive argument and i carry around a print off of direct.gov and one of European human rights.

i havnt started laser treatment yet is cash is tight but i have been on a diet high phyto-estrogenic compounds although its impossible to absorb enough hormones from food for hrt i have had alot of changes to my already feminine body and mind to name a few lost some bodily hair, calmer (mentally) been able to cut down my antidepressants and finally sensitive breast/nipples (that last one is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING  :) :) ;D ;D )

Quote from: Elanore joey on June 03, 2014, 06:23:26 PM
i dont know were you are but in Europe you have the right to be checked in to the clinic as your chosen gender as long as you present your self as that gender just thought i would make sure you know that law if im ever told i cant use ladies changing facilities when shopping i kick up a massive argument and i carry around a print off of direct.gov and one of European human rights.

i havnt started laser treatment yet is cash is tight but i have been on a diet high phyto-estrogenic compounds although its impossible to absorb enough hormones from food for hrt i have had alot of changes to my already feminine body and mind to name a few lost some bodily hair, calmer (mentally) been able to cut down my antidepressants and finally sensitive breast/nipples (that last one is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING  :) :) ;D ;D )

Oh no one said I couldn't but it's just easier to let people assume I'm an FTM, since, like I said, I haven't had my name changed or am I anywhere near SRS. When I dress as a man, people think I'm an FTM. It happens everytime. I've seen people from there on the outside alread, two people in fact, and they both called me she without a thought. No one ever thinks I'm an MTF. I was called a ->-bleeped-<- once by a couple of girls, and I was dressed as a man. So, yeah. Funny stuff.  I went in to get my ->-bleeped-<- together and that's paramount right now. They gave me my HRT regimen, so the hospital itself didn't have a problem. The path of least resistence and all. I barely did anything. Woke up, drank methadone, watched movies, drank more methadone, watch movies, did I mention the methadone? Just kidding. I was the victim of a brutal and bloody home invasion once, so that's where my problems stem from.

for me and in my opinion, fulltime means in all upcoming situations, 24/7.
i had my coming out almost 2,5 years ago before i went fulltime (means living with my female identity, my new name all the time, independently
how you´re looking). now, i´m working, living and hopefully,
looking a bit more fem after almost 1 year in hrt ... everybody (family, friends, colleques at work, roommates) 
only knows me as female today, there are even colleagues who don´t know that i had a trans* past ... pretty awesome and sometimes unbelievable
:D