Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone!

I've come here because I am ready to start talking about what has been my biggest secret for many years.

I am a 25 year old man. I was born male, but began transitioning to female at age 16. Looking back, I can see that I was not transitioning for the right reasons, but at the time it felt very right. I never fit in as a boy. I was bullied and never taken seriously by my friends in school. So in high school I heard about transgender people and it made so much sense to me. My parents were not supportive, so for two years of school, I snuck women's clothes in my backpack and dressed as a woman at school. I had an androgynous name, and as far as I could tell, no one suspected that I was born a male. At 18 I no longer needed my parents permission to start hormones so I started spiro and estrogen.

I felt very early in that something was wrong, that this was not the right path. I felt very uncomfortable with the developing breasts, and with the changes to my penis. I was saddened to lose what little facial hair and body hair I had developed. But all in all, I was happier than I was before. I got a fresh start. It was a relief to no longer get beaten up at school. It was wonderful to not have people comment on what a "->-bleeped-<-" I was...I wasn't a girly girl but I was considered "normal" and it was nice to no longer feel like a target. For a few months I was terrified people would find out I was born a male, but truthfully, I was very passable and I realized quickly that no one was ever going to doubt that I was a female.

I lived as a woman until age 22. But over those years I developed a lot of pain and resentment. I began overcompensating as a woman, because I felt like if I couldn't grow into a man, I'd grow into a tough woman who everyone would respect and take seriously. I met a woman who I dated for many years. She was OK with me being MTF, but I did confide in her that I sometimes regretted the decision. She told me that she loved me no matter what, and that if I went back to being a man, she would love me too. Even if I was effeminate and my body wasn't typical of a man. That was the first time in my life anyone told me that I was okay the way I was. It was her support that told me I could grow into the man I was and that people could love me for who I am.

Now would be a good time to say that I am not anti-transgender. I am an avid supporter of the transgender community because, even though I put myself in the wrong body by taking hormones, I know what it feels like to be unhappy with your body and to feel like you are being someone you're not. In fact when I first began detransitioning and my appearance changed, most people in my life thought I was FTM because as MTF I was 100% stealth except to my girlfriend and family. I never challenged them on it although I wish I had.

Here is the problem I am having. I have no idea how to integrate myself, and my experiences, into the real world. People can sometimes tell that I have a "different" history. There are many residual effects of HRT such as breasts, feminized face, etc. I changed my name legally and while no one generally finds out about it it pops up now and again. And when they do notice something they almost always assume I am FTM. I don't have a problem with that, but it doesn't reflect my experiences. I let people assume I was FTM for years and played along, because i was ashamed to be a detransitioner, and I regret that now. Some people assume it and talk to me as if it could be taken for granted. I have some similarities from my time as a woman, but I have no idea what it is to be born biologically female and feel you are male the entire time. I was not forced into the wrong body, either, I chose to transition to female and that was my mistake. I feel to let people assume I am FTM would be misrepresentative of this huge life experience I've had, but also of the community and how they feel.

At the same time, I don't want to disclose my detransition to a lot of people. Part of me is ashamed that I could make such a huge mistake. I also want to develop myself as a man, which I never got a chance to do as a teen. But I can never go back. I have family and friends who like to tell everyone I am "a transgender" even though I am technically not trans anymore. Whether people think I am a detransitioned MTF, or a FTM, they seem to get fixated on how I am different and never get to know me as a person first. It seems unavoidable. It almost makes me miss being a woman, because at least as a woman, I was passable enough to have the same privileges as a cisgender woman.

No matter what turn I take, I feel like a liar. I lied to myself, and told myself that I was such a failure as a man I must be a woman. I lied to myself when all the signs saying "THIS IS A MISTAKE" popped up. I never intended to lie to people about being FTM, but everyone thought I was a cis woman, so when I began detransitioning they assumed I was FTM and I went along with it. Some people early in even got confused when I said I was ex-MTF and assumed I was FTM anyway. At first I never said anything to confirm or deny, but after a while, I thought "screw it" and just went along with it. But how screwed up would everyone, especially my transgender friends, think I was if they realized I let them believe I was FTM all along?

I realize I must sound like such a horrible person right now. I never meant to misrepresent the transgender community, as a transitioner or a detransitioner. It feels good to be honest about this, even if only online, but I know some people are going to think I am so messed up.

I don't think you are messed up at all, but I do think it is time to find a Therapist to help re integrate you. They do have valuable information and can answer almost any questions or fears you may have about your final outcome. All of us need help at one time or another and I think the right one can make you feel more comfortable with who you are and about your presentation. I would also strongly suggest you go to the doctor and see where your labs are at. If they are off some way they may be able to help alleviate any additional stress it is putting on you. Just my opinion though.  :)

Thanks Jessica. I'm glad you don't think I am horrible. I feel pretty guilty about everything that I've been through, like I've made a big mess. I'm looking into therapists right now and trying to find one that will be GLBT friendly. Funny you should mention my lab work because I am due for it soon. I had some testicular atrophy after the years of HRT (don't know for sure if that's what caused it though) so for a year I was way too low on testosterone and that was rough on me. I'm on injectable testosterone now and due for a check up.

Dean you're not alone. There's lots of people out there who've de-transitioned (and I am sure they'll be along shortly to reply).

I think your experience is invaluable to the trans* community, and we should all learn from you. I hope you stick around and continue to post.

Quote from: deanh on June 12, 2014, 06:47:33 PM
I had some testicular atrophy after the years of HRT (don't know for sure if that's what caused it though)

Yes it did and you are more than likely sterile. Please don't be offended as I am in big time Mom mode tonight.  ;)

Nimrata - I've seen a few on here as I've lurked. I can see some people have a lot of similarities to me so I am looking forward to hearing from them.

Jessica - I figured that was the case. I'm not offended and not too heartbroken over that as I don't like kids.

Hi and welcome.  I am just going to comment on your question about how to reintegrate yourself and your experiences into the real world. I actually got some good advice about this from a friend of mine who had just come out as a lesbian.  I have a feeling her family is a bit conservative, as are some in her work and social circles so, prior to coming out she was a little bit worried. Her partner told her to just mention it to the people she felt she needed to mention it to, and to also deliberately try to act like it was not a big deal. Now of course it REALLY ISN'T a big deal - but because she was nervous about people's reactions she probably would have made it seem like it SHOULD BE a big deal or expected other people to think it was a big deal (negatively or positively).   So she heeded her partner's advice - she forced herself to make it sound "run of the mill" and she acted like she didn't give a f*** what anybody thought. In the end she felt that this behavior decreased any drama coming from the people she was disclosing this to and made her entire coming out process much easier and smoother. We are all social creatures who look to others for verbal and nonverbal cues about how we should react to something, so by discussing this in a detached manner she was helping to establish that this was not something to make a big deal about.   Soon she didn't need to force herself to act in any way at all - her matter of fact approach to talking about it (when and where  appropriate) became second nature.  It was a case of "fake it until you make it."

We had this conversation about three years ago. She told me her story in the context of my telling her that I was nervous about coming out with my complex background to some people.  She relayed her story to me as a way of approaching it and I am really grateful she did - it has been really helpful. The first time I found myself actively trying it out was when I was in a support group for people with depression.  It wasn't an "lgbt" or "trans" group - it was just a "people" group with members from all walks of life who were struggling with depression.  So I wanted to be honest about my history with them so they could understand the context of the issues I wanted to to talk about during my "time" so I thought of my friends story and it made it much easier to get through that and then move on.  Now I am going back to school and meeting new people there and in some classes where I think my experience is relevant I will bring it up - but again act as though it isn't that big of a thing.  I guess I am actively trying to normalize my experience. Does it work all the time? No! But I have found that even some of the people who I perceived as being closed minded and who appeared to be freaked out by my story after interacting with me for a few weeks, maybe understood me and felt more comfortable around me than BEFORE I had told my story.

There is another piece to this that involves "the patriarchy".  I understand your concerns some not accepting you as a "real" man.  That stuff is running all the time and some men will try to use that as a means of making themselves feel dominant and superior over you.  I just say f*** 'em but obviously your mileage may vary. (This is a really complicated issue - there is lots more to be said about this.)

The last piece is that, if at all possible, go public and not be anonymous.  I understand your desire to be anonymous and your first responsibility is to take care of yourself and that may mean that you need to remain anonymous for the foreseeable future.  I actually posted at least once that I can remember on a TG-related message board about retransitioning several years before I got started blogging about it (my blog site is called retransition.org and for the first month or so I was anonymous there as well.)  The problem that exists now is that there are so many "sock puppet" MTFTM personas out there that it is really polluting the space that we need to talk about this.  I have to be honest, if I had to place a bet on if your story is real or not, at this stage I would say that it most likely is fiction.  The sad part is, it very well might be real but it is hard to tell with all the noise out there. So even though I suspect you are not real, the possibility that you are very real compels me to respond. (Plus at least I know other people will see my general response and maybe it will help them.)  I am going to blog a bit more about this on my site hopefully this week.  I am not going to mention any names (other than SOME of the ones I know out there that are real) but I do feel that there is a possibility of a real public dialogue opening up between MTF retransitioners. Unfortunately, for now a lot of that "space" (and people's attention) is occupied by a fictionalized version of the MTFTM experience.

Just FYI, I am not saying that every former MTF who is blogging or has some other online presence anonymously is fake.  I know who some of them are and they are absolutely real.  I am sure some that I don't have the pleasure of knowing are real as well.  I will never call anyone out, but I am convinced that the phenomenon of fake personas existing within the small online "community" of former MTFs is getting out of hand and I think it is a worthy subject to at least quickly note before moving on.

Ok sorry for that mini-diatribe and I hope that didn't scare you off (provided you are who you say you are.)  I hope you can find some answers you are looking for here.

retransition - nice to hear from someone who has been through this. Your first bit of advice there seems pretty solid. I think that in my head I am dramatizing my situation a lot when really it isn't that big of a deal, and I imagine if I'm ever going to be comfortable with it coming up around others I will have to get used to treating it differently. For me, in a lot of ways this is my first time truly presenting myself entirely as myself to the outside world without any pretenses, which I find intimidating.

I might consider going public with my story if I feel like it could really help with education. I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about the entire topic of gender, and if I have some insights to share I would bring them to the table. I also have to figure out how in the world I'm going to communicate this to the people in my life... I've got a lot I need to figure out in other words because I haven't made sense of my experiences yet. But I'm not scared off by anyone questioning whether or not my story is true because I have questioned a lot of stories I've read online too. This is such a sensitive topic, and I can see detransition stories being made up and abused in order to serve some kind of agenda. In researching this I've found a lot of supposed ex-FTMs and I can't help but wonder if they were made up by radical feminists in order to reinforce their own beliefs on gender. I also imagine some of them are made up because our culture has a huge fixation on transgressing gender and some people find the idea enticing.

I guess one more thing for me that was helpful about writing under my own name - just like you are experiencing - I knew my former persona was "out there" - not so much online but in records and knowing people and stuff. For me, coming out ended up solving my problem of worrying about someone trying to "out" me.  In the PR world I guess this is called "getting in front of the story".  Like all things in life, coming out has its pros and cons but for me I believe the good that has come out of this (for me and my specific situation) far outweighs any of the downsides.  Again - your mileage will definitely vary.

Quote from: deanh on June 13, 2014, 02:34:17 AM
I've got a lot I need to figure out in other words because I haven't made sense of my experiences yet. But I'm not scared off by anyone questioning whether or not my story is true because I have questioned a lot of stories I've read online too.

Yeah well the reality is some people have to be anonymous - especially when they are still trying to figure stuff out.  It is a necessity but it is a shame that some people exploit this to advance whatever agendas they have (and I suspect some of them are well meaning.) But talking anonymously about this IS important - it just needs to get better.

With online personas it is a given that people are often not what they claim to be. And I think pretty much everyone, even if they are posting on facebook as themselves or just comments here and there, presents a "curated" version of who they are to the world. We all try to present ourselves as we want to be seen.  I went to a web conference a few years ago and there was one talk that really left an impression on me.  The speaker helped some high-end clients manage their online identities. And his advice boiled down to something very simple.  Be real. Be authentic. If you think people can be fooled by a heavily edited persona you are doing yourself a disservice. (In terms of web marketing what that means is if you have the time write stuff yourself or (in the more typical scenario) find someone who can take your raw ideas and pull them together while retaining your own voice (I am obviously more of a fan of the former.)

I am also trying to think how we can have conversations around this where anonymity doesn't matter as much. For instance, I think that talking about ideas is always valid (even from "sock puppets" as long as the ideas are not entirely predicated on the persona).  Talking about real life experiences is more of a slippery slope but as long as you do so with the full expectation that what you say should be regarded with prudent skepticism I think it is possible to move forward.  Again, anonymous former MTFs DO need a space to talk just like everybody else.  Unfortunately, with all the technology in the world it all still comes down to the "honor system". (Although when someone is fake eventually various "tells" emerge that the people who are actually going through this pick up on.)

I welcome any thoughts you have about how to make talking under these circumstances better.

You replied to me in the other thread, and now I read your whole story here. Thank you for sharing!

First of all- I think it's very good that you found the courage to talk about it. There's nothing to be ashamed of. You had reasons for acting the way you did, understandable reasons at that. Also, nobody can be sure that transition is the right path ,in the end it's always a trial and error thing. At the moment you seem to feel guilt or shame about it (?) - you you don't need to. You're a human being and you try things like anybody else. Like my old boss always used to say: Sometimes you wind and sometimes you loose. And that's just the way it is.

Because transitioning is still such a big taboo, there is enormous pressure to not make a mistake- but that is an effect of the discrimination and transphobia. It's not your fault- If being trans were seen as normal, changing back wouldn't be so special too.

At the Transgender conferences I was involved with during the last year we had a workshop for de-transitioners (I live in Europe). At first everybody was anxious, but it was very well received. People feel it is necessary to talk about this. And some people came out about their wish to detransition. And that's ok.

We came to the conclusion that being open about detransitioning is also politically important because otherwise the political right will highjack these stories. It truth, many detransitioners still ID as trans, they just choose to detransition because of other factors (old age, little passing in combination with constant bullying, general exhaustion etc) Even in cases like yours where you feel transitioning was wrong (something that you noticed after a short time) it's important to show younger people that there is no shame in that, so that they can make a good choice without falling prey to dubious therapists.

The (former mtf) guy who held the workshop was in the same situation as you, everybody assumed he was ftm because he had transitioned mtf in his early 20s and had very good passing. He is about 48 now.
He had to take testosterone too, and was unsure about dosage, breast binding etc. I told him to just go to ftm groups to get the information he needed, and to be out about his story there.
Everybody was very helpful when he did that. There was no discrimination at all, and nobody felt that he "appropriated" their ftm identity.

If people make assumptions about you, that's their problem. It's not your job to educate like 500 people who all make assumptions.
And if you sometimes support their assumptions because you feel the situation would be too complicated otherwise- again, that's not your fault.

People assume me to be a butch lesbian or straight ftm, but I don't date women. That often lead to very awkward situations when I go to gay parties or groups. In the past I felt the obligation to come out to everyone, but people often ignore what they don't understand, no matter how often you explain it to them.

I don't have the time to have "the talk" with them all. And I don't have to-- I'm not a liar if people push me into their stereotypes all the time and I'm too exhausted to correct them.

Another thing- feminine guys get bullied a lot- that's no news. Maybe it would help you to get in touch with activists who fight against that? It's a problem that feminine gay and straight guys have, though it's much more hidden for straight guys.
But that doesn't have to stay that way.

Here's some ideas: Do you know Julie Serano's books Whipping Girl and Rejected? She IDd as straight cross dresser, and only later transitioned to live as a lesbian woman (bi today). She has done very valuable analysis of transmisogyny (hatred of femininity in people born male). There are also books and articles about sissyphobia by gay authors, and I'm sure there are websites or groups.

And about "becoming a man". I know it's socially very difficult if you don't fit in. I some ways, we have mirror experiences-
I don't fit in as a women and you don't fit in as a man. You are attracted to women, I'm to men. We both have been bullied a lot. There is no social role for us. It would be different if you were into men or I into women. Feminine gays and masculine lesbians have a social role that people understand. But as "straight" people, there is a lot less gender variance for us, esp for you.
But that doesn't mean that we have to twist ourselves into a pretzel just to fit in (apart from safety reasons or job situations etc).
Integration is so hard because we are virtually invisible and non-existent. There is no social movement for "queer straight" people (but there should be).

Btw, I know there are many women who are sexually attracted to feminine men and enjoy hanging out with them. Most men they like are gay or even drag queens, so someone like you would be god's gift to them. ;-)

From Shakespeare "To thine own self be true"

this is the reason why therapists really need to take the time and understand the person who is wanting to transition to another gender and the reasons behind wanting to do that. hopefully you havent had anything irreversible done that would effect your ability to have children because that will effect your future happiness . every man who has srs and has not had children yet needs to freeze their sperm so they do not lose their ability to reproduce what is not important at all at the age of 16 or 18 can mean everything at 30 or 35 so that should just really be standard for all people who have not yet had children - because its very likely you will want them someday if not right now anyways hope that didnt happen and you havent lost that because that is a big loss . i hope you find happiness in detransitioning and i hope it can all be reversed . sometimes it takes a while to figure out exactly who we are