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Ok so ive been on hrt for about three months and still no sign of any breast growth....no pain, soreness or anything like that.... The weird thing is I could swear there has been other significant changes to my body that others have noticed too... basically though my doctor has me on just E right now. She started me on a ow dosage and now its a bit higher... is not having any breast growth at three months normal given my dosage and the fact that im only 18 years old?? Everyone in my family has large breasts so the genes are there but is there any significant chance that I won't grow breasts at all?

My  Endo is pretty much giving me the same treatment as you. You will not see a change in breasts until past the sixth month mark and sometimes longer or even never. Its all about how your body handles the hormones and what the genetics tell your body to do with them.  Though personally I will not remain on just Eestro. I plan to ask my endo during my next appt about starting spiro and maybe some other helpful things. :)

So theres a chance it may never happen??  >:(

Everyone is different, and in the scheme of things 3 months is really no time at all. A teenage girl's puberty takes years.

Since you posted your dosages (you need to remove that info or you can expect a message from a moderator soon - posting dosages is against the TOS) I can say that you have been on a low dose HRT regimen and you are just now getting into a dose that will have more effect. I was on low dose HRT for about 4 years and my breast growth was minimal. I am on a much higher dose now and things have begun to really move along nicely.

Is your doctor going to prescribe an anti-androgen to go with the estrogen?

They don't want us posting dosages, but I am on your second months dose and I have been for 4 months and the breast growth has been hard to hide. I am 28.

I know my breasts were sore before starting an antiandrogen, but I didn't get much growth till I went on spiro then bicalutamide, I only had a month of E only so perhaps that wasn't enough time to get them to seriously grow but they certainly hurt at that time. And now you are on double my dose of E.

My question then is Does your family have a history of slow development? Not all cisgirls develop at the same rate so trans girls don't either. Also what form of E? I take sublingual Estradiol, for example.

ok I removed the doses but ya my doctor said if an antiandrogen is necessary later on she will add it but ya now im worried...

I take the pill form of estradiol

You can discuss your concerns with your doctor but it's always good to wait at least a few months to see whether the change has been beneficial or not. My personal feeling is that adding an anti-androgen will quickstart things so you might want to ask about that...bicalutamide is a much more potent anti-androgen than spiro and it appears, with much less side-effects so you could suggest that one to him/her and see what they think. Good luck! 

I already asked abot spiro and she said not yet

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 11:14:20 AM
I already asked abot spiro and she said not yet

You may want to find another doctor sweetie. Spiro an anti-androgen is usually the FIRST HRT medication people are put on. It does no good to take low dose Estrogen if there is nothing blocking the Testosterone. Does your doctor have any experience at all with transgender patients?

she supposedly has a lot of experience... she says estrogen can lower testosterone by itself...

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 11:41:48 AM
she supposedly has a lot of experience... she says estrogen can lower testosterone by itself...

Not low dose sweetie! I would look around for a new doctor as it appears this one does not have your best interest at heart unless there were some problems with your blood test results. HEYHO is right, the quicker you get aggressive with HRT the better you will look and develop.  :)

3 months is nothing. It took me a very long time to see anything for myself and still I am very small breasted. But see my mom when she was younger she said she had very small breasts, other girls would make fun of her mosquito bites for tits, it wasn't until she had babies that they got bigger. I still look like I'm going through female puberty up top. You gotta think, no matter what the genetics are with the female members are in your family, they were born completely with estrogenic producing bodies and all the right stuff, we as trans-women, we started out with the wrong bodies, got all that testosterone to battle against, so don't expect any miracles. Just enjoy how you feel and the little things, give it time, then look back on yourself before ever starting HRT, you'll see the changes that you didn't even notice were happening.

At the three month mark (low dose only), all I could do was begin to fake a little cleavage if I pushed everything together. 

At a year and a half, it's a small "B".

My wife told me it took her about 5 years to hit a "D".  I don't want to rush things because my endo said that mimicking a GG's puberty yields the best results.  If you get too aggressive, the HRT can sometimes actually work against your development.  I'm in no hurry (probably beacuse I'm old now and years just fly by), and refuse to get a BA until everything is "done".   I would hate to rush the boob job, end up too top heavy and having two sets of scars instead of never needing the BA in the first place.  Hell, I can work with a "C". 

ok heres where im at. Just today I got my first blood test after being on the hormones. I have my next appointment on Monday at the endo and I will ask about the results of the blood test... if my testosterone hasn't gone down at all and she still refuses to add the blocke I will then see about looking for a different doctor. Ultimately though I honestly feel like theres been a lot of changes already. Not just visually either. Old pants fit way tighter in the hips and butt and my skin feels smoother my shoulders are less muscular etc... this doctor was recommended on a list of trans friendly endo's so im gunna give her the benefit of the doubt for a little bit longer and if I find my t levels are still the same and all the changes were some big placebo and she still refuses to add spiro I will leave. Also my original dose for the first month or so was low but my current dose this month is not low... not super high either

If you're on Estradiol Valerate you can expect that cos me during 5 years I haven't had any boobs, not even cup A. I just had my boobs implants directly by the end. My other friends succeeded with Ethinyl estradiol which is a very potent form of estrogen but more dangerous that its taken only in micrograms. Ask your endo if he could prescribe you that but it's risky. Risky but quicker, me I preferered and took the slower way but safer that's why I remained on Estradiol valerate during 5 years despite it never gave me neither boobs nor hips but just smooth skin.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on June 20, 2014, 12:26:42 PM
If you're on Estradiol Valerate you can expect that cos me during 5 years I haven't had any boobs, not even cup A. I just had my boobs implants directly by the end. My other friends succeeded with Ethinyl estradiol which is a very potent form of estrogen but more dangerous that its taken only in micrograms. Ask your endo if he could prescribe you that but it's risky. Risky but quicker, me I preferered and took the slower way but safer that's why I remained on Estradiol valerate during 5 years despite it never gave me neither boobs nor hips but just smooth skin.

Ymmv because I am on estradiol valerate and after 4 months I am fitting into my C cup bras.... What works for one may not work for others our bodies are all different.

Quote from: Jill F on June 20, 2014, 12:15:31 PM
At the three month mark (low dose only), all I could do was begin to fake a little cleavage if I pushed everything together. 

At a year and a half, it's a small "B".

My wife told me it took her about 5 years to hit a "D".  I don't want to rush things because my endo said that mimicking a GG's puberty yields the best results.  If you get too aggressive, the HRT can sometimes actually work against your development.  I'm in no hurry (probably beacuse I'm old now and years just fly by), and refuse to get a BA until everything is "done".   I would hate to rush the boob job, end up too top heavy and having two sets of scars instead of never needing the BA in the first place.  Hell, I can work with a "C".

I would like to have size "C" female boobs. However, my wife would not go for me having hormone treatments so I would have to find some way that would make it appear to be natural.

Anna, I agree with Jessica about the antiandrogen. You need to drop the T level. I understand that they are sometimes slow to prescribe spiro because of the diuretic effects, but there are other AAs they can use. You might want to inquire about buserelin acetate, just a suggestion. Additionally, my endo also prescribed prometrium. I understand that the use of progesterone is debated, but it couldn't hurt to ask your doc about it. It takes time, you are young, have some patience. You are going to be even more fab than you already are, my dear :)

So does that mean all the changes are just in my head :/

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 04:06:24 PM
So does that mean all the changes are just in my head :/

Not really it is just muscle mass takes a little longer than three months. After three months you should at least have different sensations in your nipples by now. Slight puffing, budding, new sensation just something. After three months on Spiro and "E" mine started to kill me. They were sore, budding and very slightly puffy.:)

Anna

I have been just on a low dose of E now for some time and the last visit my T had dropped from 28 to 7.
This is without blockers at this point so Yes E can drop T levels alone however to get to normal Cis levels blockers are needed.

Breast growth, while not spectacular has been slow and steady for me. Other changes also have occurred such as skin and hair.
At 3 month I did not have much to show either. Just be patient as it take time.

All the best
Jen

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 09:07:24 AM
ok I removed the doses but ya my doctor said if an antiandrogen is necessary later on she will add it but ya now im worried...

Almost all recommended HRT protocols to treat MTF GID require the inclusion of anti-androgens.

What is most commons is to put the patient in anti-androgens until the free-testosterone titer approaches that of natal female, and then slowly increase and monitor estradiol levels.

If I were you, I would find myself another doc...

Three months is no time at all, your body is just getting geared up...think of it as being like a cis girl pre puberty, for some of them it takes years before they have anything to write about. It's not just a matter of hormones but genetics. Patience is essential, over the next few years you'll have a sense of where you'll end up cup size-wise

Is your Doctor using the WPATH Standards of Care or her own personal opinions? We have a copy here if you would like to read them. :)

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_Gender_Identity_Disorders

Androgen reducing medications ("anti-androgens")
A combination of estrogen and "anti-androgens" is the most commonly studied regimen for feminization. Androgen reducing medications, from a variety of classes of drugs, have the effect of reducing either endogenous testosterone levels or testosterone activity, and thus diminishing masculine characteristics such as body hair. They minimize the dosage of estrogen needed to suppress testosterone, thereby reducing the risks associated with high-dose exogenous estrogen (Prior, Vigna, Watson, Diewold, & Robinow, 1986; Prior, Vigna, & Watson, 1989).

Quote from: Megan Joanne on June 20, 2014, 12:00:56 PM
my mom when she was younger she said she had very small breasts, other girls would make fun of her mosquito bites for tits, it wasn't until she had babies that they got bigger.

And during pregnancy, levels of estradiol range from 1,000- 40,000 pg/ml, levels of progesterone from 10-300 ng/ml and sometimes even much higher in the case of both hormones. Prolactin also significantly increases, in the hundreds to 200 ng/ml and during breastfeeding as well. So, sometimes, it may take quite a significant amount to trigger decent breast growth or even other changes. Depends on the individual. This is clearly my case as things have really started to take off since switching to injectable estradiol where my last blood test showed levels to be at around 4,000 pg/ml estradiol (on day 3 after injection). I also take progesterone. My breasts are starting to get bouncy, some cleavage which is amazing and my hair/skin is SO soft! :)

Quote from: Megan JoanneYou gotta think, no matter what the genetics are with the female members are in your family, they were born completely with estrogenic producing bodies and all the right stuff, we as trans-women, we started out with the wrong bodies, got all that testosterone to battle against, so don't expect any miracles.

True to a certain extent, also because we have much less growth hormones. BUT, if we take enough estrogen with or without an anti-androgen, our testosterone can be effectively inhibited, allowing estrogen to work its magic. But, yea, there are limits because of the age at which we start, previous masculinization, etc which varies from one person to another. All this to say that, nevertheless, pretty significant changes can happen and you really never know. Give it some time (years), find a doctor that is open-minded, that is willing to be aggressive in treatment, if need be, while keeping risks low, that is familiar with this sort of treatment and that really cares about your well-being and transition. 

Quote from: Jill F on June 20, 2014, 12:15:31 PM
If you get too aggressive, the HRT can sometimes actually work against your development.

But, sometimes, in the case of some people, aggressive is required if lower/medium gives no results after several months/years. And if done properly by a competent doctor, risks can be minimized and benefits maximized. :)

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on June 20, 2014, 12:26:42 PM
If you're on Estradiol Valerate you can expect that cos me during 5 years I haven't had any boobs, not even cup A. I just had my boobs implants directly by the end. My other friends succeeded with Ethinyl estradiol which is a very potent form of estrogen but more dangerous that its taken only in micrograms. Ask your endo if he could prescribe you that but it's risky. Risky but quicker, me I preferered and took the slower way but safer that's why I remained on Estradiol valerate during 5 years despite it never gave me neither boobs nor hips but just smooth skin.

I don't think it's a good idea to ever take Ethinyl Estradiol due to the risks involved and because, really, it has no advantage over bio-identical estradiol. If you did not have good results, it could simply be because you weren't taking enough OR that regardless of how much you took, ethinyl or bio-identical, you just wouldn't get anything because of genetics or some other factor but I suspect the former. Bio-identical estradiol is effective enough. If it works for genetic women, it can work for us too and is MUCH safer! Besides, I think doctors understand the risks today and will rarely, if ever, prescribe ethinyl anymore.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 20, 2014, 04:11:00 PM
Not really it is just muscle mass takes a little longer than three months. After three months you should at least have different sensations in your nipples by now. Slight puffing, budding, new sensation just something. After three months on Spiro and "E" mine started to kill me. They were sore, budding and very slightly puffy.:)

I agree. Usually, for me, it's 1-2 months.

Just sounds like your doctor is slowly ramping you up to see how you do and it doesn't sound as if she is ruling out antiandrogens altogether, just putting them off to see how you do on e alone. not necessarily a bad approach, so give it some time.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on June 20, 2014, 04:24:32 PM
They minimize the dosage of estrogen needed to suppress testosterone, thereby reducing the risks associated with high-dose exogenous estrogen (Prior, Vigna, Watson, Diewold, & Robinow, 1986; Prior, Vigna, & Watson, 1989).

The risks appear to be quite low if the exogenous estrogen is bio-identical estrogen and not Premarin/Ethinyl Estradiol which was most probably the estrogen studied in those references from the 1980's. And especially, if it is taken non-orally. For this reason, some doctors do prescribe nowaways only estrogen (and sometimes progesterone) without an anti-androgen pre-op, but usually in the form of injectables or pellets where levels are high enough (and still safe enough) to suppress T effectively and estrogenize adequately. I personally think taking bio-identical estradiol non-orally alone is associated with much less side-effects than taking an anti-androgen with it. Those guidelines, I think, should be updated to get in line with today's new reality and treatment of transsexuals. Those references are quite old.

I'm getting really worried that I may never grow breasts :( how likely is that?? Seriously I can't stop worrying about this

You've only been on hormones 3 months and without an anti-androgen!! ABSOLUTELY no reason to worry and worst case scenario, years from now, you can always decide to go for breast implants.

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 08:14:13 PM
I'm getting really worried that I may never grow breasts :( how likely is that?? Seriously I can't stop worrying about this

3 months is nothing. I was started on E only like you (but I was also on a DHT blocker that doesn't really drop total testosterone levels anyway) and I had slow changes. At about the 2-3 month mark I had breast pain with the little marble-sized buds, but YMMV. About a year in I was sitting at a small A cup, between tanner stage II-III

What are your hormone levels? It could be that the E dose you are on isn't enough to cause any significant changes.

It was not until I added spiro and then ultimately medroxyprogesterone that I started skyrocketing in boob growth and overall feminization.

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 08:16:40 AM
Ok so ive been on hrt for about three months and still no sign of any breast growth....no pain, soreness or anything like that.... The weird thing is I could swear there has been other significant changes to my body that others have noticed too... basically though my doctor has me on just E right now. She started me on a ow dosage and now its a bit higher... is not having any breast growth at three months normal given my dosage and the fact that im only 18 years old?? Everyone in my family has large breasts so the genes are there but is there any significant chance that I won't grow breasts at all?

It takes "years" to grow boobies. I am talking anywhere from 3-10 years to fully develop. Furthermore, you never stated how low the "low dose" was. If it's too low I'd find another doctor with more experience.

Please review Rule 8 of the Site Terms of Service and rules to live by (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)

Quote8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctors supervision is prohibited.
C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.
We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.

Thank you

V M

Thanks VM for clarifying those rules.

3 months isn't a lot of time and your young yet. I'm at 5 months and 3 weeks and only have a medium sized A cup. However mine started budding after about 2 weeks in, and became real sore -they still are sore but get worse just before a growth spurt. I'm however on an anti-androgen and a T blocker as well as my E. The AA's were necessary in my case due to my age and a feminine hair loss pattern I had developed before starting my hrt, which has now reversed and my hair is coming back in in my problem areas. I'm tiny built so if I get a decent B cup I'll be more than satisfied.

Having said that, I agree with most others here that you need more time. Hrt affects everyone differently because of genetics. While age may have a little to do with it I based on my own experience believe genetic's to be the determining factor as to what grows where, and when.

I think you have the right idea in giving your Endo a little more time. However I wouldn't over do that extra time (for example, give her to the 6 month mark), and make sure you express your concerns with her for your lack of development. However also, I would wait until at least the 6 month mark before pushing for anything too hard, because your Endo might just be being careful due to the results of your bloodwork. You could ask her to explain those results more clearly to you in language you can understand (no offense, but even I have a hard time comprehending medicalese, lol!) and to explain her future plans regarding your treatment.

Best wishes and all my hopes the booby fairy will visit you soon.

Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 11:41:48 AM
she supposedly has a lot of experience... she says estrogen can lower testosterone by itself...

Yes, the key term was -low dose- estrogen. High doses of E alone can indeed wipe out T and provide a serum residual... That's an archaic form of HT at this point though.

Quote from: mac1 on June 20, 2014, 01:59:27 PM
I would like to have size "C" female boobs. However, my wife would not go for me having hormone treatments so I would have to find some way that would make it appear to be natural.

So, you'd rather lie and deceive your wife because that will accomplish what in the long run?

Quote from: AllydaI'm however on an anti-androgen and a T blocker

Aren't these the same? Finasteride does not block DHT, it only reduces it. Some anti-androgens just block androgens, others only reduce and some a little of both.

Quote from: AllydaThe AA's were necessary in my case due to my age and a feminine hair loss pattern I had developed before starting my hrt

AAs are not absolutely necessary regardless of age or hair loss pattern. Estrogen alone can act effectively as an anti-androgen since it reduces androgen production in the body and has some anti-androgenic effects in cells as well, it seems, based on several studies. BUT, if that approach is taken, usually estrogen is taken non-orally, by injections or pellets. DHT inhibitors like finasteride are however useful for girls with significant scalp hair loss or who are prone to baldness due to genetics.

Quote from: AllydaWhile age may have a little to do with it

Not so sure about that. When we are young, our body seems more sensitive, the process of aging hasn't yet started and growth hormone levels are at their highest.

Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on June 21, 2014, 12:56:32 AM
Yes, the key term was -low dose- estrogen. High doses of E alone can indeed wipe out T and provide a serum residual... That's an archaic form of HT at this point though.

Not archaic. Still done, much less frequently though. But, it can be done quite effectively without significantly increasing risk, non-orally as I explained before. In fact, it could even pose less risk than taking an anti-androgen since the estrogen is bio-identical and taken non-orally.

Quote from: Annabolton on June 20, 2014, 08:14:13 PM
I'm getting really worried that I may never grow breasts :( how likely is that?? Seriously I can't stop worrying about this

Pretty low so don't worry. Unlike natural women we have the option of how much Estro we need to grow properly. Aka we can tell our bodies to kick into becoming momma mode and grow the body for nursing. Just the same as a cis woman who is growing a baby while her body grows/changes for supporting a child. So don't worry girl! Just be sure the doctor knows you want this. Maybe they think your not serious and you might change your mind!

I went dressed male to my endo and I felt out of place the entire time with my man clothes not fitting and my skin tone and my girly phone and girly shoes. lol My doc even asked why I wasn't dressed and I was honest. I didn't have enough time after work to change to what I liked.  :D

Low dose estrogen CAN lower T to cis female levels, as it worked that way for me. However, my trans-specific endo was shocked, so it's not common and nobody should be disappointed or panicky that it doesn't work that way for them.

I second everybody else who says it can just take a long time to grow boobs; some cis girls develop early and/or fast, some don't, but they all get what they were going to get. It's the same for us. :)

(My wife says her breasts budded at 10 and she wasn't finished growing until 24 or so... and she's a 36J now. Speed does not equate with size, either way. And even if it did, 3 months is still very early.)

I'm in the same boat as you Anna. Just over 3 months HRT and nothing. Occasionally my nipples feel extra perky but that's it. There's no puffiness, soreness, or any visible change. I also still get the annoyingly random erections downstairs. It's frustrating, especially when I read other's stories about how quickly things changed for them on HRT.

My endo has been pretty conservative though and started me out pretty small. I just got him to raise my dosage, but he would only do it for a small amount and only for the estrogen, not the spiro. Which sucks because my T levels are still pretty high.

But anyway, I don't think we'll be incapable of growing breasts, it's just going to take time as the others have said. Probably not until our dosages have gotten high enough to put our T and E levels in the ranges normal for a cis female.

I have my endo appointment on monday and I will discuss all this with my endo as well as getting to see what my levels are.

Quote from: Annabolton on June 21, 2014, 02:58:57 PM
I have my endo appointment on monday and I will discuss all this with my endo as well as getting to see what my levels are.

Keep us informed!! ^_^

Good luck!

Quote from: KayXo on June 21, 2014, 07:30:58 AM
Aren't these the same? Finasteride does not block DHT, it only reduces it. Some anti-androgens just block androgens, others only reduce and some a little of both.

AAs are not absolutely necessary regardless of age or hair loss pattern. Estrogen alone can act effectively as an anti-androgen since it reduces androgen production in the body and has some anti-androgenic effects in cells as well, it seems, based on several studies. BUT, if that approach is taken, usually estrogen is taken non-orally, by injections or pellets. DHT inhibitors like finasteride are however useful for girls with significant scalp hair loss or who are prone to baldness due to genetics.

Not so sure about that. When we are young, our body seems more sensitive, the process of aging hasn't yet started and growth hormone levels are at their highest.

I'm intersexed and had a Feminine hair loss pattern -not male pattern baldness. I kept my feminine hairline and wasn't completely bald. My hair in a couple of small patches on the top left side of my head had thinned. This has been reversed by the AA/DHT blocker or reducer I'm taking and my hair has come back with a lot of new growth and continues to thicken every day (It's growing like a weed too, lol!). My AA/DHT blocker/reducer isn't Finasteride. It's the other more thorough way more expensive one (sorry I'm not mentioning my drug names/doses due to forum rules). In any case I'm on a full transition dose of my hrt meds but my E isn't maxed out yet. I'm only at 5 months and 3 weeks however my Endo will be increasing my E upon my next visit in the first week of this coming month. It's delivery method will be changed to a more efficient one as well.

As for age. Yes, I wanted to and would nave been much happier had I transitioned much earlier but I went through a literal hell to get to where I am now which included two suicide attempts which, if it weren't for the quick thinking of certain friends during the first, and, an act of God (or shoddy ammo manufacturing) during the second I wouldn't be here writing this right now. In addition I was in an aircraft accident in 91 that really put things off I was lucky to live through. I was only merely stating that based on my experience, I believe that genetics has a lot more to do with how hrt affects us than age does. I in no way meant to imply that age makes no difference and if it came out that way I apologize for not choosing better words. I also did not mean to imply AA's were necessary. I only stated that in my case they are. However regardless of age I do feel the T blocker/suppressor is necessary in most cases to avoid taking very high doses of E that can be dangerous.

Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: the old mare on June 20, 2014, 05:45:54 PM
Just sounds like your doctor is slowly ramping you up to see how you do and it doesn't sound as if she is ruling out antiandrogens altogether, just putting them off to see how you do on e alone. not necessarily a bad approach, so give it some time.

Reading this thread just proves how different everyone is.  My understanding is that most endos take a cautious approach at first and then tailor the HRT regimen based on the individual's response to the first few months.  And that seems to be more common in some countries.  What country are you in?

Quote from: katiej on June 22, 2014, 01:34:37 AM
Reading this thread just proves how different everyone is.  My understanding is that most endos take a cautious approach at first and then tailor the HRT regimen based on the individual's response to the first few months.  And that seems to be more common in some countries.  What country are you in?

I guess that is what Annas Doctor is doing, its probably the right approach considering her age, having said that its still a little strange that absolutely no AA has been included. I understand from what I have discussed with my Doctor, that the older you start your transition, then the more aggressive the AA and hormone treatment might have to be.

Quote from: Allyda on June 21, 2014, 11:52:29 PM
sorry I'm not mentioning my drug names/doses due to forum rules).

You can mention the drug name, just not how much and didn't you mention finasteride anyways?! hehe...anywho, I'm happy you are doing better. :)

Quote from: KayXo on June 22, 2014, 11:38:22 AM
You can mention the drug name, just not how much and didn't you mention finasteride anyways?! hehe...anywho, I'm happy you are doing better. :)

Well, in that case the AA I'm taking is Avodart (Dutasteride). It really has made a difference and has given me my hair back. Here's a photo showing how my hair is full again. Before taking Avodart, my hair was thin and stringy. I also take a woman's One a Day vitamin, and a good Hair, Skin, and nails vitamin. This photo was taken a little over 2 weeks ago on the Wednesday after coming home from the DMV when I had my gender marker on my driver's license changed to female.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fy0j7xwu.jpg&hash=0b0788cc03ee7eda246bb42c6571c29f955f64d8)
Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: Allyda on June 22, 2014, 01:57:20 PM
Well, in that case the AA I'm taking is Avodart (Dutasteride). It really has made a difference and has given me my hair back. Here's a photo showing how my hair is full again. Before taking Avodart, my hair was thin and stringy. I also take a woman's One a Day vitamin, and a good Hair, Skin, and nails vitamin. This photo was taken a little over 2 weeks ago on the Wednesday after coming home from the DMV when I had my gender marker on my driver's license changed to female.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fy0j7xwu.jpg&hash=0b0788cc03ee7eda246bb42c6571c29f955f64d8)
Ally :icon_flower:

You must be good at describing yourself because that is  exactly 100% what i always pictured. You just look like a very normal lady, 100% female>3

Quote from: Abbyxo on June 22, 2014, 02:11:20 PM
You must be good at describing yourself because that is  exactly 100% what i always pictured. You just look like a very normal lady, 100% female>3

Thanks Abby I really appreciate it. I bought that dress I'm wearing in the photo to celebrate getting my gender changed on my license to female.

Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: Kyra553 on June 21, 2014, 09:33:28 AM

I went dressed male to my endo and I felt out of place the entire time with my man clothes not fitting and my skin tone and my girly phone and girly shoes. lol My doc even asked why I wasn't dressed and I was honest. I didn't have enough time after work to change to what I liked.  :D

Kyra, don't you hate not being able to get out of the boy disguise at the end of the work day!?  It makes me go nuts, but thankfully I have only 22  boy days left... can't wait!   

Quote from: Allyda on June 22, 2014, 03:01:56 PM
Thanks Abby I really appreciate it. I bought that dress I'm wearing in the photo to celebrate getting my gender changed on my license to female.

Ally :icon_flower:

Well you look very lovely and I'm sure your photo will look lovely <3

Quote from: Julia-Madrid on June 22, 2014, 03:14:05 PM
Kyra, don't you hate not being able to get out of the boy disguise at the end of the work day!?  It makes me go nuts, but thankfully I have only 22  boy days left... can't wait!

Yes!! I completely hate it because it just feels weird in my old clothes and I feel like a small child wearing her dad's giant baggy shirt and pants now.  My polished oval nails also make me a constant boy fail. lol!

Congrats on the days left! ;D

Quote from: Abbyxo on June 22, 2014, 04:02:12 PM
Well you look very lovely and I'm sure your photo will look lovely <3

It does look much better than the old one did. My old photo looked like a mugshot, lol! Also, I'm very proud of that F beside the word Sex on my license. I now show my ID with pride instead of shame. I had it changed a little over 2 weeks ago on a Wednesday. I've gotten my bank accounts changed, my house deeds changed. All I have left now is Social Security and the VA. I did the DL first because it's the hardest.

Thanks again Abby for the compliments. I love your new Avatar by the way. You look great. :icon_bunch:

Ally :icon_flower:

Sheesh, people want it all at once. YEARS, it will take YEARS and there is nothing you can do to speed the process up, like ever. your Endocrinologist will find the perfect combination of medications for "YOUR" body and "YOUR" transition which will deviate from other people's experiences. It took me ten years, A FREAKING DECADE to get my boobs. TEN YEARS! Breast growth has to do with a host of variables such as genes, how far after puberty HRT was started, what and how much sex hormones and anti-androgens are taken, how much prolactin your body produces, growth hormones, ect. What you take is ultimately up to your doctors, but you should be well learned in these areas and you can go to more than one doctor. Second opinions happen daily.

Ok so I found out yesterday that my estradiol levels went up from 20 to sixty something... but the results for my t levels aren't ready yet and they will have them by Thursday. So what do my e levels tell everyone??

If your e levels are up then your t levels will have come down so your moving in the right direction  :)

are my e levels in the female range or not yet?

Is that your face? You look great! Beautiful. Some beautiful women have small boobs. Give yourself some time. Have patience.

Well I would say the results vary from the date you take your meds. If your on injections then they will rocket up for a week then decline back down by week two.  So its still possible the T is out doing the E. But I would say your getting closer. :)

Yes that is me and thank you very much for the compliment! ^^
I am fine with having small boobs but right now I have none at all...
also I take the oral medication not injections if that helps... I will update everyone on Thursday when I get the results of my blood tests

Quote from: Annabolton on June 24, 2014, 10:37:20 AM
Ok so I found out yesterday that my estradiol levels went up from 20 to sixty something... but the results for my t levels aren't ready yet and they will have them by Thursday. So what do my e levels tell everyone??

VERY low.

Quote from: Annabolton on June 24, 2014, 11:33:54 AM
are my e levels in the female range or not yet?

I'm assuming your levels are in pg/ml. Low or high, they will always be in range as range is VERY wide.

Am J Med. 1995 Aug;99(2):119-22.
Estrogen acutely increases peripheral blood flow in postmenopausal women.

"normal postmenopausal plasma concentration less than 200 pmol/L (less than 54 pg/ml); normal premenopausal physiologic ranges: luteal 368  to 1,100 pmol/L (100 – 300 pg/ml), midcycle 785 to 1,840 pmol/L (214 – 501 pg/ml), follicular 74 to 368 pmol/L (20 – 100 pg/ml) for estradiol"

Maturitas. 2005 Apr 11;50(4):266-74.
Acute administration of 17beta-estradiol improves endothelium-dependent vasodilation in postmenopausal women.

"Normal concentrations obtained via a fluorometric method, vary with the phase of the woman's menstrual cycle. During the follicular phase, they range from 35 to 184 pg/mL; during the ovulatory phase, from 191 to 540 pg/mL; and during the luteal phase, from 40 to 228 pg/mL; at menopause, the 17β-estradiol level decreases to about 35 pg/mL. »

http://www.specialtylabs.com/clients/outreach/web/site/details.asp?tid=44312&cid=301&keyword=

Normals for Males: 11 - 44 pg/mL
Female normal by day of the week relative to LH peak:
Follicular: 21 - 251 pg/mL
Mid Cycle: 38 - 649 pg/mL
Luteal: 21 - 312 pg/mL
Post menopausal (HRT): 0 - 144 pg/mL
Post menopausal (non-HRT): 0 - 28 pg/mL

http://www.ilexmedical.com/files/PDF/Estradiol_ARC.pdf
"Normal estradiol levels are lowest at menses and into the early follicular
phase (25-75 pg/mL) and then rise in the late follicular phase to a peak
of 200-600 pg/mL just before the LH surge, which is normally followed
immediately by ovulation. As LH peaks, estradiol begins to decrease
before rising again during the luteal phase (100-300 pg/mL)."

AND

"If conception occurs, estradiol levels continue
to rise, reaching levels of 1,000-5,000 pg/mL during the first trimester,
5,000-15,000 pg/mL during second trimester, and 10,000-40,000 pg/mL
during third trimester. 6-8"

Finally from http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content-nw/full

These levels were obtained just before labor/delivery, at the end of pregnancy which lasted on average, 38 weeks.

Mean estradiol levels (E2): 24,000 pg/ml, Range: from 800-75,000 pg/ml

Quote from: Kyra553 on June 24, 2014, 12:31:43 PM
Well I would say the results vary from the date you take your meds. If your on injections then they will rocket up for a week then decline back down by week two.  So its still possible the T is out doing the E. But I would say your getting closer. :)

She's not on injections. On injections, levels really peak days 1-2 and then significantly drop days 7-8.

Contraception. 1980 Apr;21(4):415-24.
A comparison of the pharmacokinetic properties of three estradiol esters.
Oriowo MA, Landgren BM, Stenström B, Diczfalusy E


"Peak plasma levels of estradiol and estrone were reached in approximately 4 days following the administration of estradiol cypionate and in a significantly shorter time (approximately 2 days) following the administration of both the valerate and benzoate. One hour after the injection of the esters, the average percentage increases in plasma estradiol and estrone levels were significantly higher in the valerate and benzoate groups compared to the subjects receiving estradiol cypionate. The average duration of elevated estrogen levels was shortest in the benzoate group (4-5 days) followed by the valerate (7-8 days) and cypionate (approximately 11 days). In none of the subjects studied were elevated estradiol and/or estrone levels encountered 2 weeks after the injection of the various esters."

so could my low levels be why im not having any growth??

YES! BUT, you need to discuss this with a COMPETENT doctor. I'm not the expert. Show him/her those ranges and he/she will surely be convinced that your levels are too low.

Three months is still in the early stages of HRT. Like others have said your levels could probably be a little higher, but in my opinion it's probably for the best to gradually increase your estrogen dose, so that's a positive!

Within the first couple months I had a lot of tenderness and buds under my nipples, but everyone's growth is different. If you literally have no tenderness, no buds, nothing... then you might want to talk to your doctor about it.

that's it though I have no tenderness or nothing

Quote from: Annabolton on June 24, 2014, 02:55:06 PM
so could my low levels be why im not having any growth??

Yup. At those levels, I was getting just a little breast growth. It wasn't until I got E to above 100 that I started to accelerate in changes.

Talk with your doctor about increasing dose if you aren't getting the changes you desire

You might also consider the pellet method.