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I've got a bit of a problem it seems and could use some outside perspective to give me a hand. I've decided I want some sort of spiritual path and, while I know I need to figure out where I'm going myself, I have certain hang ups that are getting in my way.

First of all, it's been drilled into my head that believing in things that can't exist is delusional and stupid and this is firmly lodged in my mind. It doesn't stop me from believing in things (no matter how much I've tried not to), but it causes me distress.  I'm slowly getting better, but it's still at the point where I have trouble admitting I believe in things even to myself and, when I do, it usually comes with repeated statements that I know I'm insane.
Why do I want to have a belief system if there's so much shame wrapped in having one? For one, I believe in supernatural people and creatures regardless. It is what comes naturally and is part of who I am even if it is delusional. For another, I'm lonely, feel like an outsider, and want to belong to something even if I'm still kind of an outsider with humans of similar beliefs. If that makes sense. I am afraid that ranges into imaginary friend territory and that it's weak of me to use deities as a crutch to make my loneliness feel better, but at the same time, I wonder if it will help make me stronger by helping me.

Second of all, I already have certain things I lean towards. The problem is, they don't exactly fit with pre-established belief systems. For example, I lean towards Norse paganism, but I'm a queer, trans guy who feels more drawn to Loki and some of the jötnar than the other Æsir and Vanir although I have respect for all of them. Those seem to be frowned upon by heathens/Asatru/Odinists/etc. I also don't believe in just one pantheon either, believe in any pantheon's creation stories, or believe that deities are necessarily superior to any other beings just by virtue of being deities. I like witchcraft, but that's also frowned upon in Norse beliefs (if you're mortal) and the kind of witchcraft I'm interested in apparently frowns on any religion in general, so they appear to be mutually exclusive. I definitely lean more towards the darker and more chaotic aspects of folklore and mythology which tends to give people the impression of some stupid, rebellious, teenage phase (I'm 26 and have been this way since elementary school at least) to make one look cool (I really do gravitate towards this stuff naturally, cool or not). I'm not interested in worship in the sense of trying to be worthy of other people (deities or not), but am interested in the idea of honouring people who I like and respect. That probably seems arrogant, but hey, if the shoe fits.
Why do I care if my own beliefs are part of a pre-established, all or nothing set? Because I also have hang ups about unverified personal gnosis. I think it's mostly because I've heard the idea shamed so much.
Normally, I wouldn't care what other people think, but this shame was enforced at the same time as some traumatic experiences which apparently makes it a little more difficult to shake.

What do I hope to get out of sharing this and seeing what people say? I don't know. Maybe someone has advice that doesn't involve telling me I'm wrong. Maybe I've gotten the wrong impression of what is and isn't accepted and, like Floki in Vikings, I can actually be accepted despite being a little odd. Maybe other people have experience dealing with shame for their beliefs and have some tricks on how to deal with that. I'm kind of afraid people will judge me and tell me that who I am is wrong and I should change instead, but that's a risk I take every day by being who I am.
Sorry this has been all over the place.

Disclaimer in case this needs to be said: No, I don't just like Loki because of Marvel. I've liked Loki from the Norse tales long before I was introduced to Marvel.

QuoteWhat do I hope to get out of sharing this and seeing what people say? I don't know. Maybe someone has advice that doesn't involve telling me I'm wrong. Maybe I've gotten the wrong impression of what is and isn't accepted and, like Floki in Vikings, I can actually be accepted despite being a little odd. Maybe other people have experience dealing with shame for their beliefs and have some tricks on how to deal with that. I'm kind of afraid people will judge me and tell me that who I am is wrong and I should change instead, but that's a risk I take every day by being who I am

I understand where you're coming from, especially since most people around my age, where I live are atheists who automatically assume that I am one too, that I mainly just keep quiet unless there's been a direct question. Most people I don't care enough about to bother explaining things about myself to, but also part of it is probably from shame since like you said, any mention of "God(s)" make most people who are non-theist think you're an ignorant fundamentalist.

I really though think most people don't need to know much personal things about me (even family members), so I figure getting into a big religious/philosophical conversation just isn't worth it except for with a few people.

Good luck.

Quote from: Nimrata (aka LH) on June 20, 2014, 01:57:45 PMI really though think most people don't need to know much personal things about me (even family members), so I figure getting into a big religious/philosophical conversation just isn't worth it except for with a few people.

Oh indeed. At the moment, most people don't have a clue whether I'm atheist or pagan and I've had people assume both about me (and being completely fine with me either way). The problem for me is that I end up shaming myself.

There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of Edge. Sprituality in any form is a personal experience and that experience is unique to the individual. I have my beliefs and they are my own. No one else's but mine and it comes from my life experiences good and bad. Am I dark, bet your butt I am. Do I believe good eventually conquers evil, yes I do. Just because I am dark doesn't mean I am evil. My beliefs of a Diety are just that, my beliefs in such a Diety is formed by my life experiences and perceptions. I am not accepted by any mainstream or even cult like beliefs. Chritians say I am going to hell, satinists say I believe too much, athiests say that I am too much of a theist and everyone thinks I am borderline insane. ;) Which I am proud of by the way.

Go against the grain. You seem like a person that is strong enough to swim against the current so form your own beliefs. I believe that we form beliefs for a reason and that is because a little voice inside of us which could be of a devine nature is guiding us into what we need to believe in. If it is out of the realm of accepted religious views, that's OK. As long as it isn't about hurting others in anyway. It is extremely personal and unique to you and really doesn't have to make sense to anyone other than youself. Hope that helps a little.

Thanks, Jess. For me, I have formed my own beliefs and they're here to stay no matter what people say. (Usually, it was atheists and pagans who had a problem with me or people like me, honestly.) It's just difficult to get those memories to shut up.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 03:24:10 PM
Thanks, Jess. For me, I have formed my own beliefs and they're here to stay no matter what people say. (Usually, it was atheists and pagans who had a problem with me or people like me, honestly.) It's just difficult to get those memories to shut up.

Your welcom Edge. Another bada$$ avatar BTW.

Hell hon, everyone or most people anyway, not me though, have a problem with someone else no matter what. Screw 'em. They really don't have to live your life or die your death. BTW that is the darkness I was talking about in myself. But when all is said and done as long as you are happy with yourself and your own beliefs, nothing else matters. It is all about you. Do you know in real life how many people have a problem with me? I'll give you a hint. I don't care because it's their problem not mine. Just make those memories STFU and replace them with better ones. Like this conversation. ;)

There are as many nuanced religious and spritual beliefs as there are people in the world.  Find the path that makes you happiest and stick to it, no matter what everyone else thinks or pressures you to. 

Personally, I'm an atheist/agnostic/pagan.  It's complicated... LOL 

Hey, at least you can prove the world exists and that it supports life (or we all live in the Matrix, in which case we're all screwed).

Anyway, I think therefore I drink and I drink therefore I am.   Ok, I can see now how Descartes arrived at his conclusion. </snark>

Quote from: Jill F on June 20, 2014, 03:48:02 PM
There are as many nuanced religious and spritual beliefs as there are people in the world.  Find the path that makes you happiest and stick to it, no matter what everyone else thinks or pressures you to. 

Personally, I'm an atheist/agnostic/pagan.  It's complicated... LOL 

Hey, at least you can prove the world exists and that it supports life (or we all live in the Matrix, in which case we're all screwed).

Anyway, I think therefore I drink and I drink therefore I am.   Ok, I can see now how Descartes arrived at his conclusion. </snark>

Gotta second that one Jill.

I understand what you're saying, Jess, and it makes perfect sense, but it's not that simple for me. It has nothing to do with strength. It has to do with why that shame is so ingrained in me. You're right in that it is all about me. I can't enjoy my own beliefs because I keep feeling shame and anxiety. Other people can be as supportive or not as they want and I'll still have flashbacks and, yes, I mean actual flashbacks. One of the reactions in particular to me was pretty extreme and put me through heck for a few years. I can't make those memories shut up. If I could, I would have years ago.
I guess it's another thing about me other people can't understand.
And yes, yes, I know that whole get therapy thing. I have. They're also aware that this isn't something I can stop from happening.

lol Jill. If we lived in the Matrix, it would be the nineties.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 03:57:17 PM

lol Jill. If we lived in the Matrix, it would be the nineties.

Crap, I'm showing my age again!  To quote Keanu Reeves (in many films...), "Whoa!"

And to think Lana was still Larry at the time!

Yeah Edge flashbacks really suck. But I, for one, do understand. Bad things happen to good people and those bad things that happen do not make those good people bad. I don't know what happened with you but do know what happened to me and believe me I knew shame for a long time. Still know anxiety though. And still have nightmares. But I like to think at least that I am a somewhat good person and what happened to me didn't change that. Yeah it might have made me a little darker. It might have made me lose hope in and distrust people a little more and definately question "Devine Intervention" and "Devine Justisce" when it comes to beliefs. But one thing is that I may not be the person that I am today because I learned at a young age that the world isn't quite as safe or secure as we like to think it is. I may have ended up being too trusting in people and not even be here at all because of that trust.

I don't want to make you mad 'cause you have chewed me out a couple of times :'(. But those bad memories of mine have actually kept me from getting in some really bad situations. Some of which may have been worst than what I actually lived through. Of course I am twenty years older than you and hindsight is 20/20. And believe me the way I lived, I have been in bad situations.

In my case (this particular case anyway), I was misdiagnosed as schizophrenic because I believe in faeries. I got involved in the mental health system for a separate reason, but that eventually came out and, once it did, my psych at the time locked onto that and claimed it made me delusional. It wasn't until I was over eighteen, got completely away from that psych, and saw another one that another psychiatrist told me that I had no symptoms of psychosis. By that point, I had spent most of high school in more pain that I can describe because anti-psychotics can have horrible effects on people who aren't psychotic and learning that no one will ever help me or believe me. I also later found out that the psych who misdiagnosed me has a history of doing that with other young people with similar results.
Of course, right now admitting to this, I'm afraid people are going to turn on me and claim that if a professional said so, he must have had a good reason and that of course a crazy person would deny being crazy. No other psychiatrist I've met thinks I'm psychotic and that includes ones who know I believe in faeries.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 20, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
I don't want to make you mad 'cause you have chewed me out a couple of times :'(.

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to. It's more frustration towards myself and not towards you.

My journey began, with asking which is the right one?
And I prayed to god, saying dear god if in deed you do exist how can it be their are so many religions all claiming the others are wrong and that they are the right one?

My answer came in a dream, of a large piece of concrete that became shattered even in the process of social separation. Upon the concrete was the house of religion and a piece of the building came to rest upon each shattered piece being used to form other houses of religion that were nothing in comparison.

And each society began to protest their house of religion was correct and the other designs were wrong and didn't follow the original design.

My next question was, if they all share the same foundation how can I encompass them all, seeing this as the true religion? My answer came by a realisation that I may be wrong. This was something none of the societies I'm my dream had done, each believing they were right without question. Each believed that they were right, and failed to realise they only "believed" they were. Had they focussed on that belief they might of realised each other society was doing the same as they.

That concrete was the foundation of piece, and since the shattering piece within religion as it stands can only happen if you stand upon one piece of that foundation. Because religion is of the gods how can It be broken?

That was my understanding, and I once again struggled believing my interpretation wrong, after all I'm human and not above it. So months later seeing as I saw my dream as an answer from god, I finally prayed once again fearing god. I was frightened I would call him a liar. So I said once again, If religion is of god and god is powerful how can it be god foundation be so shattered.

I had the same dream. Only my focus changed. Those cracks were not cracks but lines of distinguish placed by man. The foundation was still whole, but had these lines of "social" separation caused by man. But what of the house? How could that be broken? It too isn't, it is their barely visible in current society, focus is taken away from it, and drawn to the religions of man. The pieces that shattered with the creation of social separation the elements of truth each society took with it and holds onto.

The wrongs with in religions? the human brain filling in the blanks.

but when A little ___ bought a pretty dress the other day, and was excited to try it on. ___ rushed to get home but when they arrived their _______ was angry, saying they shouldn't wear it because, it was ___ ____.

Each spiritual journey start within yourself. Right now you are deciding where to place your foot. Why not place your foot because it is you placing it? Follow in the foot steps of another and your religion is not yours. Your religion is what you believe. If you disagree with me then that is ok too. Why? because I might be wrong. And since I might be wrong even though I believe I'm right. If I disagree with you that doesn't mean your wrong. Its means you might be right, I just believe your wrong.

So If we both choose choices believing it is wright, are we not doing the same? even if we disagree?
e.g, If somebody believes that their is no god, then to they their isn't one because for them saying they believe in something they don't believe in is wrong. So am I to say god still exists and call them a liar? No, because they say they don't believe in something they don't believe because their not a liar and in this they do the right thing.


If this is no help I apologise.

That helps a lot, ButterflyVickster. Thanks. It reminds me of something I saw the other day.
"There is no security in following the call to adventure. You enter the forest at the darkest point where there is no path. Where is already a path, is someone else's path. Your adventure is forging your own path."
I like that. It's what I want. I want to be able to accept that that is what I want.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 04:46:15 PM
In my case (this particular case anyway), I was misdiagnosed as schizophrenic because I believe in faeries. I got involved in the mental health system for a separate reason, but that eventually came out and, once it did, my psych at the time locked onto that and claimed it made me delusional. It wasn't until I was over eighteen, got completely away from that psych, and saw another one that another psychiatrist told me that I had no symptoms of psychosis. By that point, I had spent most of high school in more pain that I can describe because anti-psychotics can have horrible effects on people who aren't psychotic and learning that no one will ever help me or believe me. I also later found out that the psych who misdiagnosed me has a history of doing that with other young people with similar results.
Of course, right now admitting to this, I'm afraid people are going to turn on me and claim that if a professional said so, he must have had a good reason and that of course a crazy person would deny being crazy. No other psychiatrist I've met thinks I'm psychotic and that includes ones who know I believe in faeries.

Wow Edge. I really don't know what to say other than believing in faeries and being misdiagnosed. There are a bunch of quacks in the world and some of them do happen to be shrinks. Ya' know, I investigate paranormal occurances from time to time? I have things, mostly on cassette tapes which are long disintegrated because of the times but some on a digital voice recorder. I can't explain disembodied voices other than paranormal occurances. I did not nor anyone else physically hear anything but there are voices that are there. Talk about schizophrenic? During a couple of investigations I and others have heard actual disembodied voices. Defies all logic, huh? Leprechauns used to be a supernatural being right along with faeries. I believe that people used to see faeries right along with leprechauns. For whatever reason they do appear in mythes and folklore and there is some sort of truths buried in mythes and folklore. I really wouldn't let it bother me though. One idiot's diagnosis I would definately discount. I don't think you are crazy, believe me hon, there are other things that I believe in and I will leave it at that. Sometimes professionals can be idiots. But I definately don't think you are crazy or psychotic. Yeah prescribing anti psychotics to someone that isn't psychotic? What the heck were they thinking? Other than that Dr. being a little off and possibly a little sadistic. Or just a plain, arrogant butthole.

Really Edge. Talk about dillusional? Any religion or belief system could be categorized in a clinical sense as a dillusion. And personally the big QUESTION is what is dillusion and what is Faith.

What I highlighted from your quote, no I don't think anyone will think that way. I don't. Actually I feel sorry that you had to go through that for really nothing. I really hope that psychiatrist lost their license to practice since there seemed to be a history there.

For the record Edge, on a lighter note you're more sane than me. ;)

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 04:49:36 PM
Sorry about that. I didn't mean to. It's more frustration towards myself and not towards you.

I know Hon, but I need to be chewed out and cussed at every now and then. ;)

lol According to my beliefs, leprechauns are a kind of faerie. I tend to prefer goblins, trolls, the nuckelavee, kelpies, fuaths, etc though.
Yeah. I hope he does loose his license especially since I found out he's done it to other young people. I doubt he will though.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 05:31:26 PM
lol According to my beliefs, leprechauns are a kind of faerie. I tend to prefer goblins, trolls, the nuckelavee, kelpies, fuaths, etc though.
Yeah. I hope he does loose his license especially since I found out he's done it to other young people. I doubt he will though.

OK, I know what leprechauns are since my heritage is Irish. I know what faeries are since the other part of my heritage is English. I do know what goblins and trolls are but what is the nuckelavee, kelpies and fuaths. I feel like I should know since they do sound Celtic and Ireland and all. But I am at a loss. ???

I hope he does too. That is BS. I mean I have done a lot of things in my younger days for cheap thrills but never anti psychotics.

To me, faeries are a catch-all phrase for supernatural beings in folklore. I know others don't agree with me, but that's what I mean when I say "faerie."
The nuckelavee is a faerie that lives mainly in the sea and looks kind of like a centaur with no skin, black blood, yellow veins, a gaping mouth, and a single glowing eye. According to folklore, he is responsible for epidemics, drought, and ruined crops and livestock.
Kelpies are Scottish water faeries that mainly look like horses, but are able to shapeshift.
Fuath is a name for a group of water faeries that I think includes kelpies, but I can't remember. They also include the glaistig (half woman, half goat, drinks men's blood) and ones like that.

I probably should have known all of that. I really need to get more in touch with heritage. Huh?

Well A lot of people don't believe in fairies (tinkerbell type) is because the tooth fairy is not real. so a person saying they believe in fairies is perceived to still be believing that the tooth fairy is real.

Hence the your crazy. reaction

oh and btw.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 05:08:13 PM
That helps a lot, ButterflyVickster. Thanks. It reminds me of something I saw the other day.
"There is no security in following the call to adventure. You enter the forest at the darkest point where there is no path. Where is already a path, is someone else's path. Your adventure is forging your own path."
I like that. It's what I want. I want to be able to accept that that is what I want.

You already accept its what you want, It look like what you need is somebody who wont judge you crazy for doing so :p

What you need is a way of explaining how you can believe something that others don't, even if you are the only one that believes it? Ask them what their thinking. and then tell them you don't believe it, because they cant prove it. "I just told" you might be the answer, then say I don't know that, people lie. So prove to me its what you where thinking. They cant prove it. No more or no less then you can prove your beliefs. Like I said I did have those dreams, and after praying. But I cant prove it, no matter how much I know its true.

I wonder, about all sorts of mythological beings. I like those ideas. A whole world of undiscoverable creatures existing in a shifted state. Out of sync here and yet not here. At the same time. I often fall distant from reality and find my self walking a different way home through to some compulsion I cant explain. Each time I discover something, because I was looking for something? Because I believe I Choose this path due to some external force? Well how Am I suppose to prove or disprove it was fairy type guardian of the flower I notice had a traffic cone thrown on it. On a the spiritual protector of animals when I see a bird with a trapped wing?

I cant. But Its how I feel, for me these walks are a divine guidance. But what I do not know. GOD? a fairy? why not. There is definitely something "spiritual" about these experiences. Even if it be the inter spiritual and undistinguishable cry for help from a species not my own. I know it not, but what it is,  it is definitely something. A spiritual calling? I can not say anything, except for reasons I do not understand I choose those paths and helped those things, and "believe" it was what I supposed to do.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 20, 2014, 06:32:44 PMI probably should have known all of that. I really need to get more in touch with heritage. Huh?

I wouldn't worry about it. I barely ever meet anyone else who knows of these types of beings. Or anyone else who actually reads folklore for that matter.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on June 20, 2014, 06:33:32 PM
Well A lot of people don't believe in fairies (tinkerbell type) is because the tooth fairy is not real. so a person saying they believe in fairies is perceived to still be believing that the tooth fairy is real.

Hence the your crazy. reaction

Not exactly. I quite vocally despise the Tinkerbell "fairies." He also explicitly told me he would do the same thing to Christians who actually believe in God. Not only that, but there are way more symptoms that need to be present to diagnose psychosis than just believing in things that aren't real. I don't have them and never have. So even if he did get confused about what I meant, there was still no reason to misdiagnose me.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on June 20, 2014, 06:33:32 PMYou already accept its what you want, It look like what you need is somebody who wont judge you crazy for doing so :p

Not exactly. I need to stop judging myself as crazy and being terrified of what people will do to me if they judge me as crazy.

Oh well from what I can make out from how you think, is that your not crazy.
If your smart enough to know people will think your crazy, it means you understand why. Meaning that in some way you can understand their perspective, and if understanding their perspective you still believe there must be a reason why :).

Its not craziness, it means you understand other peoples perspective on this subject. You understand for the most part they wont or cant understand you? If you understand both them and yourself, and they can only understand themselves who is, more intellectual?

Yes, I understand why. Believing in things that can't exist is stupid and delusional. I understand that makes me crazy and I understand that, because of it, people will try to hurt me and I won't be able to stop them because everyone will take their side.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 07:05:19 PM
Yes, I understand why. Believing in things that can't exist is stupid and delusional. I understand that makes me crazy and I understand that, because of it, people will try to hurt me and I won't be able to stop them because everyone will take their side.

Believing in things that CANT exist?

Or believing in things that you CANT PROOVE.

Yes without proof those that NEED it will say it doesn't exist until proven. But for those that don't need proof they will ask you why you believe in them :) and spark a conversation. You understand this. That makes you smart :).

Hmm. Good point. Thanks. I feel a lot better about it now.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 07:05:19 PM
Yes, I understand why. Believing in things that can't exist is stupid and delusional. I understand that makes me crazy and I understand that, because of it, people will try to hurt me and I won't be able to stop them because everyone will take their side.

Believing in things that supposedly don't or can't exist really is not stupid and delusional Edge. Actually it is way more common than what you think. Take me for instance. I have and still do investigate paranormal occurances. A lot of people don't believe that "ghosts" exist. Back when I was 22 a friend thought I was crazy and so on. He was big and bad an nothing scared him. I took him on an investigation with us one night in a house that supposedly had a lot of activity. This house was well over a hundred years old, the stairway was so narrow that a person's shoulders would almost be touching the walls. The stairs themselves, my foot would barely fit and most everyone else had to step sideways up the stairs. Yeah it was a creepy place and the guy that lived there contacted me to see what if anything we may catch. A door shut behind friend and he lost it. I didn't seem quite so crazy to him after that and I could not get him to go back inside so he sat in the car all night while we kept investigating. We didn't catch anything else and I really can't say for sure what caused the door to close on it's own but personally I doubt it was anything paranormal. But it scared the crap out of my friend though.

Quote from: Edge on June 20, 2014, 06:45:04 PM
Not exactly. I quite vocally despise the Tinkerbell "fairies." He also explicitly told me he would do the same thing to Christians who actually believe in God. Not only that, but there are way more symptoms that need to be present to diagnose psychosis than just believing in things that aren't real. I don't have them and never have. So even if he did get confused about what I meant, there was still no reason to misdiagnose me.

Wow, really? How does this person keep practicing psychiatry? So this quack would put 60-70% of the population on antipsychotics?

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 09:31:11 AM
Wow, really? How does this person keep practicing psychiatry? So this quack would put 60-70% of the population on antipsychotics?

If he started seeing them when they were under eighteen and were naive enough to fall for it (like most teenagers), then yes. It seemed far fetched when he told me that, but then I heard from some of his other former patients. He keeps practicing psychiatry because no one would believe patients over a psychiatrist.

Quote from: Edge on June 21, 2014, 10:28:05 AM
If he started seeing them when they were under eighteen and were naive enough to fall for it (like most teenagers), then yes. It seemed far fetched when he told me that, but then I heard from some of his other former patients. He keeps practicing psychiatry because no one would believe patients over a psychiatrist.

You know there are some psychiatrists out there that make me look like a normal functioning human being. :o I have always been interested in psychology and actually went for a degree in it but dropped it because I fgured I knew enough about it to be more of a parapsycholgist, which really isn't anything more than crazy people like me investigating the paranormal and trying to tie it to how the mind works. Sort of like the theories of poltergiest. The main theory is that it is usually tied to a person that is usually going through puberty and all the emotions and hormonal imbalances and such this person is possibly subconsciously causing the activity. This goes either way because I have spent multiple nights where the person in question was present and strange occurances happened. When I have taken that person out of the equation then all is quiet. But it has went the other way in which it was some sort of mischevous energy that seemed intellegent even without the younger person there.

As for you Edge. I would really suggest you look into some historical data on paganism and christianity especially around the time the Roman Empire integrated christianity into its culture.  They changed and mixed a lot of pagan rituals in to the original teachings of Christianity. Winged figures like angels? sounds a lot like Faeries. The christmas tree? pagans worshiped nature and what is a symbol of nature other than an evergreen tree that stays green even in the winter. It is more or less historically accepted that Christ was born in the spring time due to a lot of indicators in the bible with the shepards in the fields during this event and that happened becase of the birthing season of the sheep and the sheperds kept the predators at bay while the sheep gave birth and util the lambs were big enough on their own and that would have been springtime. The winter solstice is a pagan holiday in which people would give gifts because that was the end of the previous year and the biginning of the new year. So why the crap do we celebrate Christ's birth so close to the winter solstice when the historical data supports a spring birth of Christ? Funny how the Roman god Pan resembles the image of Satan.

I have read, done a lot of research, looked into many belief systems and have come to the conclusion that no one belif system is right or wrong and the main reason why I never claim one that is true over the others. Like I said Hon, Spirtuality is a uniquely personal thing that usually comes to us in according to life experiences and so on. How we may percieve an all knowing Creator or Creators of the Universe. I see that Creator's or Creators' fingerprints in nature, in us, in a spider and other creatures some mythical some supernatural and some that are physically here on this planet now.

I myself identify as Gnostic, not agnostic but Gnostic. Gnosticism is the closest form of Christianity which does not even resemble mainstream Christianity as it is today. It was pretty much wiped away when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity. There are Thirteen more books and Gospels that never made it into the bible because it contains and hints to more of early Chritianity as a mystic type of belief. Funny the Church left these out because they were supposedly irrelevent to the message. Maybe to thier message that would take control away from the supposed priests and laid our Spirituality as being our own independant of society and cultural beliefs. These text hint that Mary Magdeline was not a harlot but a rich widow that indeed was Christ's closest apostle and hinted at being Christ's lover, girlfriend or wife even. It hints that Judas did exactly what Christ wanted him to do and that was to supposedly betray him.

I wrote all of this for a reason Edge. According to my insights what would that same psychiatrist think about me? I can only imagine. Straight jacket and rubber room maybe? ;) I have been shamed and I have been shunned and I have been told that I am never going to see the gates of Heaven because of these beliefs. I have even been told by a priest that if I ever had children they would not be able to go to Heaven because of the way I belive and I would have to convert. To me that is worst extortion than the Mafia could ever do. At least the Mafia don't threaten your children or other family members.

I let you in on me and what I hold near and dear in my heart when it comes to beliefs, 'cause you let me in on a little bit of yours. It is all about perceptions. Unfortunatly though people have lost thier lives, been persecuted, shunned, shamed and tortured over perceptions of possibly the same message.

Edge, don't sell yourself short. The strongest people are the ones that go against the grain or the flow or the common mainstream ideals of the rest of society. And I am about as far as you can get away from mainstream religion or Sprituality but it is extrememly personal to me.( I am about as far from mainstream society even as you can get.) Just like yours is to you and overcome that shame that one idiot made you feel. Are you familiar with the Motley Crue song Shout at the Devil? That song wasn't about Satan or Lucifer but any adversary (greek meaning for devil) on anyone or anything that adversely effects your life, even our own thoughts sometimes so "Stand strong and shout at the devil". I love that song by the way.

So anyway Hon, if you are crazy, then we'll meet up in the asylum and throw one helluva party. ;D And really I am thankful that I have a good psychiatrist that does acknowledge I may know a little bit more about the whole psycholgical thing than she does. She even asks me a lot about parapsychology and even asked me to do an investigation at her house in her pasture because she thought she saw a "ghost horse" when she owns no horses at all. So I get a few free sessions. How is that for Ironic?

I really hope this post makes you feel better and more comfortable and less shame about your beliefs. I think you are a good person and you don't deserve to feel that way. But now you probably think I am crazy. Hell I'll own it. ;) 'Cause I just don't really care what people think of me, I am just me, no apologies for that.

Actually, I am aware of the fact that Christianity took stuff from other religions.  :) I've always thought the snake in the garden was a little like Prometheus. Pagan religions also took stuff from each other.
(As a side note, no angels do not sound like faeries. Not the ones from folklore anyway.)

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 11:48:23 AMAccording to my insights what would that same psychiatrist think about me? I can only imagine. Straight jacket and rubber room maybe?

No, but probably drugs. He's a big of fan of drugs.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 11:48:23 AMAre you familiar with the Motley Crue song Shout at the Devil? That song wasn't about Satan or Lucifer but any adversary (greek meaning for devil) on anyone or anything that adversely effects your life, even our own thoughts sometimes so "Stand strong and shout at the devil". I love that song by the way.

I like that song too. lol Satan does mean "adversary," so either way, it fits.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 11:48:23 AMSo anyway Hon, if you are crazy, then we'll meet up in the asylum and throw one helluva party. ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-pQ-lv-N9M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-pQ-lv-N9M)

You didn't rename me Scotty Mac did you? Some of what you quoted from me comes up Scotty Mac. I am so hurt. ;) Don't really know what happened there. You ain't ashamed of me are ya' ???

Yeah Motley Crue's Shout at the Devil is probably the ultimate album from them. Theatre or Pain would be the next and anything after, well.... I ain't gonna say. But Mick's riffs in the beginnning just can't be beat. Girls Girls Girls was pretty good but Dr. Feelgood? Maybe a couple of songs I like on that then the acoustic guitar and the freakin' ballads started comin'. Without You? really? Motley Crue? If I wanted to listen to sappy love songs I would go over to country.

Edge that song is a little too tame for a party, my style. I don't know how to add a youtube video here, but look up the song Redneck by Lamb of God. That my dear is the epitome of a party. Yeah I am a little wild. Yeah right, I am way wild.

The only question I got is why with heavy, dark metal bands and the bald heads especially with the front man? Jill told me why Kerry King has a bald head but one of our local metal bands got in touch with me a couple days ago and asked me to play lead for them. First I am older by twenty years :o. Two they really need a name change. :P Three, I have the longest hair of them all. >:-) Four, their guitarist really isn't that good. ::) And definatley five, the front man shaves his head. >:( They really got screwed by their manager on many different levels. Kind of thinkin' about and jammed with them last night, but my freakin' god. I just don't know. They really want to go more into a classical type metal sound. I just think maybe too much work for me.

Definately check out Redneck by Lamb of God. That is me to the 'T' or 'E'. I can still be bada$$ and female? Or female at least internally?

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 01:29:38 PM
You didn't rename me Scotty Mac did you? Some of what you quoted from me comes up Scotty Mac. I am so hurt. ;) Don't really know what happened there. You ain't ashamed of me are ya' ???

Wtf? I didn't even notice it did that. Give me a sec and I'll fix it.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 01:29:38 PMYeah Motley Crue's Shout at the Devil is probably the ultimate album from them. Theatre or Pain would be the next and anything after, well.... I ain't gonna say. But Mick's riffs in the beginnning just can't be beat. Girls Girls Girls was pretty good but Dr. Feelgood? Maybe a couple of songs I like on that then the acoustic guitar and the freakin' ballads started comin'. Without You? really? Motley Crue? If I wanted to listen to sappy love songs I would go over to country.

I'm a bigger fan of folk metal myself, but listen to a range of music.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 01:29:38 PMEdge that song is a little too tame for a party, my style. I don't know how to add a youtube video here, but look up the song Redneck by Lamb of God. That my dear is the epitome of a party. Yeah I am a little wild. Yeah right, I am way wild.

The subject matter, Jess. Party at an asylum -> House Party at Arkham Asylum. :)
Funnily enough, I find Lamb of God far too relaxing for a party. I don't know what it is about them, but they chill me right out to the point where I've fallen asleep at one of their concerts. Yes, I know. Shame on me. I do like Redneck and many of their other songs though. Just not for a party.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 01:29:38 PMThe only question I got is why with heavy, dark metal bands and the bald heads especially with the front man? Jill told me why Kerry King has a bald head but one of our local metal bands got in touch with me a couple days ago and asked me to play lead for them. First I am older by twenty years :o. Two they really need a name change. :P Three, I have the longest hair of them all. >:-) Four, their guitarist really isn't that good. ::) And definatley five, the front man shaves his head. >:( They really got screwed by their manager on many different levels. Kind of thinkin' about and jammed with them last night, but my freakin' god. I just don't know. They really want to go more into a classical type metal sound. I just think maybe too much work for me.

Most bands I listen to, the front man has plenty of hair, so I can't answer that first question. Man, I'd love to play in a metal band, but my musical skills are pretty much zilch and attempts to get along with people usually end up in flames.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 01:29:38 PMI can still be bada$$ and female? Or female at least internally?

You're asking someone who despises gender roles. Of course I am going to answer heck yeah!

Quote from: Edge on June 21, 2014, 01:41:55 PM
Wtf? I didn't even notice it did that. Give me a sec and I'll fix it.
I'm a bigger fan of folk metal myself, but listen to a range of music.
The subject matter, Jess. Party at an asylum -> House Party at Arkham Asylum. :)
Funnily enough, I find Lamb of God far too relaxing for a party. I don't know what it is about them, but they chill me right out to the point where I've fallen asleep at one of their concerts. Yes, I know. Shame on me. I do like Redneck and many of their other songs though. Just not for a party.
Most bands I listen to, the front man has plenty of hair, so I can't answer that first question. Man, I'd love to play in a metal band, but my musical skills are pretty much zilch and attempts to get along with people usually end up in flames.
You're asking someone who despises gender roles. Of course I am going to answer heck yeah!

Oh well, I'll just dry my tears cause I thought you may be replacing me with someone you thought was cooler. ;)

How can you fall asleep with Lamb of God? Just kidding though. What chills us out is something that is as personal as beliefs. Zeppelin used to chill me out, of course it also could have been all the Alchemy involved ;). that was the early to mid eighties after all.

Hell Hon. I am self taught on the guitar. I can read tablature and yeah it is slow going until I get it down pat but rhythme is extrememly easy. I ain't no musical prodogy but neither was Angus Young, Tony Iommi, Dickey Betts and Jimmi Hendrix. I have my own style and it is a mix sort of between Angus Young and Tony Iommi. Most peoople that are musical prodogies teach music and don't fill stadiums. But I really don't either so... I will almost put money with a bookie that we could get along fine. But a little conflict ain't never hurt any band until the point they get like Guns and Roses or Poison and it gets too much and they break up. As a matter of fact, my musical skills are about as basic as they come and one of the reasons that metal band contacted me. Me and the bassist had talked before and now they are looking to go a different direction. God, the questions. What do you think? Should we do this? Should we do that? How should we look? What should we do? God, I ain't no den mother but maybe a couple more jam sessions and natural flows. It may work. ???

That last part Edge, you rock hon and thanx.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 02:13:26 PM
How can you fall asleep with Lamb of God? Just kidding though. What chills us out is something that is as personal as beliefs. Zeppelin used to chill me out, of course it also could have been all the Alchemy involved ;). that was the early to mid eighties after all.

Well, at the time of the concert, I was on a kind of medication that made me constantly exhausted. Otherwise, I'm not entire sure. I have a lot of anger/restless energy in me and listening to Lamb of God seems to drain it right out. Sometimes, their lyrics are comforting (ex: "Walk With Me In Hell") and sometimes it just seems to be the overall sound of the music.
That's still cool that you play the guitar. I tried guitar and bass, but my fingers are too stubby. I used to sing, but then my voice started changing on T. ;D
lol Maybe they need to stop being so hesitant and start suggesting ideas instead of asking for them.
Thanks. You rock too. (Pun intended.) \m/ >:-) \m/

Well. When I wrote the first post, I was thinking I wanted to start formally honouring people like being a real pagan or something. Now I'm randomly back to wanting to be mostly independent of anyone, but still paganish. Oh well. Considering the deity I'd be more likely to follow if I followed anyone would be Loki, ambiguity is not exactly surprising.

Quote from: Edge on June 21, 2014, 03:35:33 PM
Well, at the time of the concert, I was on a kind of medication that made me constantly exhausted. Otherwise, I'm not entire sure. I have a lot of anger/restless energy in me and listening to Lamb of God seems to drain it right out. Sometimes, their lyrics are comforting (ex: "Walk With Me In Hell") and sometimes it just seems to be the overall sound of the music.
That's still cool that you play the guitar. I tried guitar and bass, but my fingers are too stubby. I used to sing, but then my voice started changing on T. ;D
lol Maybe they need to stop being so hesitant and start suggesting ideas instead of asking for them.
Thanks. You rock too. (Pun intended.) \m/ >:-) \m/

Well. When I wrote the first post, I was thinking I wanted to start formally honouring people like being a real pagan or something. Now I'm randomly back to wanting to be mostly independent of anyone, but still paganish. Oh well. Considering the deity I'd be more likely to follow if I followed anyone would be Loki, ambiguity is not exactly surprising.

Infreakindependence. That hold the key to you and all that you may experience. I am a totally independent person. I won't say it is the best way, but definatley the best way for me. Sometimes I really don't even identify with the human race. What Race? I really don't know.

Whatever works Hon to soothe your soul. No matter what.

OK, so how does your voice sound? T or not? I am trying to put together my own people and really need a singer that sounds on the edge of insanity.

But yeah. I really don't think they are going to go anywhere. Just came from a jam session and it was really nothing but head butting with the other gutarist. I have one idea and he has another. The rest of the band think I should be in the lead, so really who knows? Sabbath did it with one guitarist. The only problem is he is one of original founders. But name changes and such can work wonders. But again, I would be the oldest in age and in no way do I want to be the "den mother" when I want to get wild myself. I definately am not the responsible one and don;t want to be.

Thank you Edge. That is so sweet of you of you to say. Oh yeah I do rock but musically. But I have never been told that I rock otherwise.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 09:06:08 PM
Infreakindependence. That hold the key to you and all that you may experience. I am a totally independent person. I won't say it is the best way, but definitely the best way for me. Sometimes I really don't even identify with the human race. What Race? I really don't know.

Totally. Me too sort of. I'm as independent as a person in modern society can be, but still sometimes wish to belong to something. Then I realize that I don't really. I mean, I want to be accepted by people, but as a separate, odd entity. If that makes sense. Kind of having it both ways I guess. I'm rambling. Anyway, that depends on other people and I can't control them.
Although, oddly enough, my Asatru friend came up to me this evening and told me that he considers me like kindred. That was nice though more than a little awkward. For some reason, after talking with him, I'm now back to wondering if I should be a Norse pagan. Can't quite be Asatru though because I also respect jötnar a great deal. (Although if any heathens complain about that, I could always ask them to name one of Æsir who is not related to at least one jötunn and/or has at least one kid with one.) It may be partially to have similar beliefs as my friend, but as he pointed out, we already have similar beliefs. Mostly, it's because I'm already leaning that way anyway. Or maybe I can just keep leaning.
I never feel like I identify with the human race, but that's a whole other kettle of fish and is probably insanity.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 09:06:08 PMWhatever works Hon to soothe your soul. No matter what.

Indeed.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 09:06:08 PMOK, so how does your voice sound? T or not? I am trying to put together my own people and really need a singer that sounds on the edge of insanity.

It used to sound really high pitched. It's lower now and it still sometimes cracks, so I think it might change some more. If I ever figure out how to record it and share it, I'll share a sample since I don't know how to describe it. I want to learn how to do the growly thing, but I'm not quite sure how. As for insanity, I'm on the edge of insanity. ;D (For non-belief related stuff although that might be insanity too.)

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 09:06:08 PMBut yeah. I really don't think they are going to go anywhere. Just came from a jam session and it was really nothing but head butting with the other gutarist. I have one idea and he has another. The rest of the band think I should be in the lead, so really who knows? Sabbath did it with one guitarist. The only problem is he is one of original founders. But name changes and such can work wonders. But again, I would be the oldest in age and in no way do I want to be the "den mother" when I want to get wild myself. I definately am not the responsible one and don't want to be.

Yeah that would suck.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2014, 09:06:08 PMThank you Edge. That is so sweet of you of you to say. Oh yeah I do rock but musically. But I have never been told that I rock otherwise.

Never? I've been enjoying this conversation. Beliefs, craziness, and metal are some of my favourite topics. Not to mention I think it's pretty cool that you're Gnostic. I had heard that some people are, but have never talked to one before.

Believe me Edge. I have never belonged, Never really wanted to either. People are strange becuase the less you want to belong or identify with them, the more it seeems they want to invite you in. I guess I always just went my own way.

Ihe growling gutteral sounds, I have no clue. But it sounds like it could be a little painful after a while. The "Edge of Insanity". I think that is the one thing that kept Ozzy so popular even after Black Sabbath fired him and once his wife got him of the drugs. He just had that edge in his voice, even in his looks and the way he would move on stage. He difinately wasn't a sex symbol but the song Mr Crowley was perfect for him. And now God is Dead?.

Yesterday I spent all day talking with them, made up some riffs with them to see what kind of mprove and sponteniety we may have. Tried writing afew lyrics with them Nill on the chemistry. The bassists actually wants to leave and come over to the darkside with me. He is good. The drummer also mentioned something about it too and there is definately some synchronization between the three of us. But the guitarist and the singer, just I really don't know what to say about 'em.

Gnostisim is extremely rare. It is Christian in nature since it is about Christ but more of a mystic element involved. I have never met anyone else that claimed it either. But Yeah I love talking about this kind of stuff. Most people just can't talk about beliefs without arguments, I have never understood that.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 23, 2014, 07:29:33 AM
Believe me Edge. I have never belonged, Never really wanted to either. People are strange becuase the less you want to belong or identify with them, the more it seeems they want to invite you in. I guess I always just went my own way.

Let's drop that subject because that opens a can of worms you really don't want to hear about. No offence is meant to you. It's just a sore spot with me.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 23, 2014, 07:29:33 AMThe growling gutteral sounds, I have no clue. But it sounds like it could be a little painful after a while.

According to someone I know who does voice training, the growls are actually perfectly fine on the vocal chords. It's the screams that wreck them.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 23, 2014, 07:29:33 AMYesterday I spent all day talking with them, made up some riffs with them to see what kind of mprove and sponteniety we may have. Tried writing afew lyrics with them Nill on the chemistry. The bassists actually wants to leave and come over to the darkside with me. He is good. The drummer also mentioned something about it too and there is definately some synchronization between the three of us. But the guitarist and the singer, just I really don't know what to say about 'em.

Maybe the three of you should go off and do your own thing then.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 23, 2014, 07:29:33 AMGnostisim is extremely rare. It is Christian in nature since it is about Christ but more of a mystic element involved. I have never met anyone else that claimed it either. But Yeah I love talking about this kind of stuff. Most people just can't talk about beliefs without arguments, I have never understood that.

I guess it's because it's really personal for people and something they are passionate about. I try not to get into arguments, but I've got to admit, there are some things that get under my skin. I get pretty tetchy when people refer to faeries as those Tinkerbell disgraces since I think they're insulting. I don't try to argue with them because there is really no point, but some people in heathen religions are convinced that Loki is evil and killed Baldr when, in the older stories of Baldr's death (i.e. not obviously Christinized), Loki isn't even mentioned. A lot of people think jötnar are also evil and enemies of the gods, but this makes no sense if one actually looks at the stories since most of the people in Asgard are at least part jötunn and/or have at least one kid with at least one jötunn (yes, even Thor for whom both apply). From what I can tell (and in simplistic views), the Æsir are mostly the gods of culture, civilization, and order; the Vanir are gods of agriculture, fishing, and that sort of stuff; and the Jötnar are of nature and chaos. Neither nature nor chaos is evil. Then again, in modern times people seem to keep thinking chaos equals destruction, but that's ridiculous. Destruction is only one possibility (and one that can lead to rebuilding something better anyway). Chaos is endless possibility. Anyway, it was the Christians who turned that into some good vs evil thing, so I don't get why some heathens adhere to Christian influence so tightly.
I'm rambling. Sorry.

The three of us could but still leaves me without a singer and another guitarist and I already know a bassist and possible drummer. Back to square one, I guess I could go it alone but a single guitarist, I would just rather there were two of us.

I can see, cause those growls sound like they actually come from deeper. The screams on the other hand.

Actually Edge you make a good point about Chaos not being destructive. Chaos can also be creative. This planet and our solar system is a good example of that. Sort of like with me seeing good and evil are relative and dependant upon one another. Without Evil, there would be no Good and vice versa. I believe in one main Creator which most people relate to God but what about the Elohim? What about Lillith, Adam's first wife or lover before Eve? I tend to really irritate really religious people because I see the Devil, Lucifer, Satan or whatever anyone calls that aspect not as much as evil as a temptation or something to overcome. That entity was created by the same Devine power that created us and both aspects are inside us. And therefore why we know the difference between good and evil. So from a Spiritual standpoint the Devil is not a bad entity because if we do resist the evil aspects of ourselves we overcome the adversity.

A lot of times stories, writings and ancient texts are not there for nothing. Behind every mythe there is some truth. Just like the thirteen gospels that were left out of the Bible which most people call the Gnostic books. These writings or what is left of them paint Christ in a totally different light than the new testiment does. More like a teacher with tremendous insight that actually sealed his own fate. It points to our own destiny and "salvation" as being in our own hands and no establisment's or organization's or heads of them. If anything they bring up more questions than answers and way more mysterious than the ones that made it into the New Testiment.

I just think there is more to everything than what is commonly accepted. I could be wrong but I think a lot of things are discounted as fantastical folklore, mysticism, or just so called tales to scare children at night. But its there. The stories, the tales, the texts and quite a few things fit together like pieces of a puzzle. I used to spend a lot of time in the western states and talked to a Shoshone elder in Nevada for a couple of hours and some of the stuff he told me about the endtimes in their legends kind of blew my mind because I could make connections and he agreed with me but he told me it wasn't as much about the end as a time of change. Now look who's rambling. ;)

Ah I see. Yeah, that could be a problem.

Yeah. I can't remember what she said exactly, but it sounded painful.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 23, 2014, 02:04:47 PM
So from a Spiritual standpoint the Devil is not a bad entity because if we do resist the evil aspects of ourselves we overcome the adversity.
...
If anything they bring up more questions than answers and way more mysterious than the ones that made it into the New Testiment.

I like that. It's not for me, mind you, but I think it's a much healthier attitude to have than blaming someone else for faults and wanting to be given answers instead of finding them for oneself.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 23, 2014, 02:04:47 PMI used to spend a lot of time in the western states and talked to a Shoshone elder in Nevada for a couple of hours and some of the stuff he told me about the endtimes in their legends kind of blew my mind because I could make connections and he agreed with me but he told me it wasn't as much about the end as a time of change. Now look who's rambling. ;)

Ragnarok is like that too. The first version I read of it included Baldr and Hod returning to rebuild anew although I have no idea how much of the Ragnarok stories are influenced by Christianity.

I'll readily admit I'm a huge fan of chaos. Every time my life gets topsy turvy, I always come out of it with more experiences and, therefore, more knowledge. I almost always come out of it stronger than before and closer to being who I feel I am meant to be which is a fantastic feeling. Even though things tend to be destroyed, the almost always needed to be. I thrive in chaos.
I also have a thing for the wild. It's like... civilization is more convenient to live in (and has internet), but the wild is what feels like home. And I sound sappy. Sorry.

Speaking of religion, while being heathen/Asatru does seem to be pretty much where I'm headed to the point where my Asatru friend seems to be under the impression that I have the same beliefs as him, I realized today that there is one big thing that keeps me from just being heathen. To be honest, there are many heathens who accept LGBT people, many who don't care if people honour Loki, and I already keep mostly quiet about my connection with jötnar although I wish I could be more open about that. But their values place great importance on family and that's something I can't do. This is such a big thing for me that just remembering this switched me from thinking "yeah this is definitely for me" and feeling happy about it to rejecting it and feeling confused and lost.
I know I don't have to have a pre-established religion. I guess my feelings on it are complicated though.

What you believe in and how much that matters is not up to anyone but you. You get to decide how your values align and you get to change them as your opinions evolve.

Quote from: Edge on June 24, 2014, 08:08:09 PM
I'll readily admit I'm a huge fan of chaos. Every time my life gets topsy turvy, I always come out of it with more experiences and, therefore, more knowledge. I almost always come out of it stronger than before and closer to being who I feel I am meant to be which is a fantastic feeling. Even though things tend to be destroyed, the almost always needed to be. I thrive in chaos.

I also have a thing for the wild. It's like... civilization is more convenient to live in (and has internet), but the wild is what feels like home. And I sound sappy. Sorry.

You know Edge, the way I see it everyone is looking for the secret of life and its meaning. Most people it eludes them and they keep looking and it will always remain a mystery to them. We look to God or gods or some supenatural force but what you said in that first paragraph is truly what I tihink the answer of life is. To delve in it to gain experience and make a part of ourselves stronger. That feeling that you get is not there for nothing and there is a reason why you get that feeling.

I really don't think Christianity has influenced as much as has been influenced by other beliefs.

That last paragraph really stikes a chord in me. I love the wilderness. Somehow feeling like becoming part of the food chain really heightens the feeling of being alive. Me alone with a weapon powerful enough to protect myself is one thing. I can only imagine what ancient man with spears and rocks faced with a lot more predators roaming the wilds. Probably the whole reason for civilization and there being safety in numbers. Now the wilderness isn't as dangerous as the "civilized" world in a lot of cases.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 25, 2014, 07:39:38 AM
You know Edge, the way I see it everyone is looking for the secret of life and its meaning. Most people it eludes them and they keep looking and it will always remain a mystery to them. We look to God or gods or some supenatural force but what you said in that first paragraph is truly what I think the answer of life is. To delve in it to gain experience and make a part of ourselves stronger. That feeling that you get is not there for nothing and there is a reason why you get that feeling.

Oh I know. I know some people who pray to Thor for strength and, while that's all well and good for them, it doesn't sit well with me. I want my strength to come from me and not borrowed from someone else. If Thor ever were to meet me, I would rather impress him. If that makes sense. To me, those experiences and the way I handled them is reminiscent of Loki's way of manipulating situations to his (and sometimes others') advantage which is another reason why I like him.
I'm rambling. Sorry.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 25, 2014, 07:39:38 AMI really don't think Christianity has influenced as much as has been influenced by other beliefs.

I'd agree that Christianity has been influenced more, but it has had influence on other beliefs. As I mentioned before, far too many people are convinced that Loki and the jötnar are evil despite this not making sense according to mythology. Hades has also been demonized despite being probably the nicest of the Greek gods. Set makes more sense to demonize due to his conflict with Horus, but even he wasn't as evil in Egyptian mythology as people think. I've also talked to people who were convinced that Horus was some sort of Christ figure despite that making no sense.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 25, 2014, 07:39:38 AMThat last paragraph really stikes a chord in me. I love the wilderness. Somehow feeling like becoming part of the food chain really heightens the feeling of being alive. Me alone with a weapon powerful enough to protect myself is one thing. I can only imagine what ancient man with spears and rocks faced with a lot more predators roaming the wilds. Probably the whole reason for civilization and there being safety in numbers. Now the wilderness isn't as dangerous as the "civilized" world in a lot of cases.

You may have a point due to the effects we're having on the environment and other animals. Hurricane's, earthquakes, etc may kill a lot of people, but we may be causing mass extinction. Funnily enough, it's thought that the ancient man with spears and rocks are responsible for the extinction of megafauna.

Quote from: Edge on June 25, 2014, 10:17:50 AM
You may have a point due to the effects we're having on the environment and other animals. Hurricane's, earthquakes, etc may kill a lot of people, but we may be causing mass extinction. Funnily enough, it's thought that the ancient man with spears and rocks are responsible for the extinction of megafauna.

There will always be earthquakes, hurricanes and other natural disasters. Earthquakes may be changing the areas and frequency just due to the earth's axis changing and the gravitational pull of the moon on the crust. Or it may very well be fracking in areas especially in Oklahoma. Personally I tend to think that some of these areas go for a long time with no activity until it builds to a point and the pressure builds and then it lets loose. The New Madrid Fault line is one that is overdue and that is a bad boy right there. Also we are overdue or coming upon that cycle for the supervolcanoe in Yellowstone. Not to mention Mt Ranier, Mt Hood, Mt Shasta. All of them are coming close to the timeframes of their cycles. Personally that big one in Chile surprized me it didn't set off a chain reaction but it may have something to do with that being in the southern hemisphere. But a chain reaction is sort of what worries me because I think if Yellowstone goes again with the same amount of energy it went last time it will set off all the others and will cause a mass extinction.

When it comes to the envorionment though. I believe that nature can take care of itself a lot better than we can. SE La and the levy systems and now they are complaining about losing marsh. It's not the hurricanes that is destroying the marsh it is the lack of floodwaters overflowing and creating new marsh and then land. Without the levy system the Mississippi River would make more new land per year than what all the senators and politicians could ever possibly think. Yes, there would be floods though so people would have to build accordingly. Forest fires out west. Seeds lay dormant for years until a fire comes along and kicks them off. Gets rid of the old growth and makes room for the new. Same way with CO2 and global warming. Plants thrive off of Carbon Dioxide like we do Oxygen. I read in a science magazine a while back that a lot of CO2 leads to a warmer climate by trapping the heat and keeping it closer to the surface and leads to a wider range of plants from algea to trees. Through photosynthesis these plants put out a lot more oxygen and a tipping scale is reached and oxygen suffocates plants and when there is too much oxygen plants die and the climate gets cooler or colder because Oxygen don't trap the heat and when the plants decompose it will build up more of the greenhouse gasses like methane and CO2 then the climate gets warmer and plants come back and begin to grow and puts out more oxygen. So nature takes very good care of itself even though it may seem Chaotic. The question is though when is humanity or mankind gonna reach the tipping scale and nature needs to cycle us? A lot of things that are just natural and not just natural disasters. If the Ebola virus ever got out and really took off, in less than a year the planet would probably be devoid of human life. Thing is no one knows where this virus actually originated. I read a book that a cave that was warmer than it should be with an unusually high amount of bat guano could be one source. Or why it will wipe out or used to wipe out whole villages and then dissapear. It is definately not a pretty thing. Pretty much people's insides turn to mush and they beled out from every orafice. If I'm not mistaken and can remember right from the time the virus is contracted to the bleed out is roughly 3 days to a week with a kill rate that is extremely high. But if not Ebola, then it may be even a more deadly virus that may make the Black Plague look like a walk in the park.

OK, enough of the doom and the gloom. Funny Edge, you talk about rambling but look what I just wrote.
Sorry.

I didn't mean to imply that nature doesn't cause mass extinction. It can and has before hence all the periods and eras before humans. Just that the next mass extinction is happening because of humans and the last extinction happened because of humans as well. Neither did I say anything about natural disasters being the only natural things. I was merely using them as examples of natural occurrences that humans consider dangerous. I also do not mean to imply that they're the only examples of natural stuff that humans consider dangerous. I just don't see the need to list all of them.
Nature is eternal. It doesn't need to take care of itself because it just is.

Quote from: Edge on June 25, 2014, 04:42:04 PM
I didn't mean to imply that nature doesn't cause mass extinction. It can and has before hence all the periods and eras before humans. Just that the next mass extinction is happening because of humans and the last extinction happened because of humans as well. Neither did I say anything about natural disasters being the only natural things. I was merely using them as examples of natural occurrences that humans consider dangerous. I also do not mean to imply that they're the only examples of natural stuff that humans consider dangerous. I just don't see the need to list all of them.
Nature is eternal. It doesn't need to take care of itself because it just is.

I know Edge. I was pointing out that no matter how technologically advanced we are, we as a species are at the mercy of nature. Until we have enough technology to actually leave this planet in a type of mass exodus, whatever happens we have really no control over it. And definately there is no doubt that humans are helping it along.