Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I find myself interested in gay men, or other transgender people, (or masculine women, but most of them are lesbian and looking for 'femme lesbian'(?) I have no clue), so I feel like it's a mission impossible... lol
Hanging out in gaybars is just depressing now..

What are your thoughts? (I am interested in a guy at work, who's gay/bisexual.)

I believe gay guys are just starting to get some awareness about trans guys and I think it's just a matter of time before it sinks in for them that trans men are men and some might actually be their type. Transphobia within LGB circles is unfortunately still a thing but I feel like progress is happening quickly.

I can't speak beyond my own experience, but it obviously depends on the person. I've heard other trans guys say they've been hit on by gay guys until it comes out that they're trans, and then the guy will say "oh honey, I only date real boys". I've also read a comic by a gay man who has dated several trans men and has no problem with it at all.

For myself, my spouse is openly bisexual and incredibly supportive of my transition. He loved me when I was in dresses and heels and makeup (and misery) and he loves me in cargo shorts and a binder and a gaming t-shirt (and much happier). Of course, we have the benefit of 10 years of being together as a foundation, and it's nothing like first dating someone. I have no idea how he would've reacted had I been transitioned when we first met.

I imagine it entirely depends on the person and what they're looking for in a relationship, honestly.

I was curious about this too. Is there a better chance if the two gay men are both asexual?

Some gay men date trans men, some don't. However, I wouldn't recommend dating a co-worker.

I guess, some do

I just had a nasty experience with that.  I posted a conversation on my tumblr if you want to check it out.  I'm a little shaken up but I'm doing okay, I think, so far. 

NSFW language and caution for possibly triggering transphobic language.  Click on each picture to enlarge it.

http://squirrelshideout.tumblr.com/post/89772028516/i-havent-gotten-it-this-bad-for-awhile-but-i-feel

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case (at least from all the things I've read) if they want to involve sex in a relationship in general.

I know trans guys in relationships with cis gay guys. I wouldn't say it was the rule or anything.

--Jay

I was going to link a video from this YouTuber (https://www.youtube.com/user/MrMisterDrumm/featured) where he brings his cis boyfriend on to talk about their relationship but I can't find it. It seems like he removed it or maybe I'm just not finding it. Maybe they broke up and it seemed weird to keep it there. They were both so adorable!

I got hit by gay men and a couple of my gay friend thinks I'm hot.
It depends of the person really, some care and some don't care.

Yes, gay men will date transmen. Seeing as, you know, transmen are men.

Any dude who would turn you down on the grounds of him being transphobic is a dude you're better off not going out with anyway.

NotAnotherAiden has a LOT of helpful posts on dating for gay transmen.

I'm in a relationship with a gay man.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/64124_344232692374076_2082519251_n.jpg)
I've had plenty of other gay men interested in me as well, both knowing that I'm trans beforehand or after getting to know me.

Oh and, I think it depends. My brother is gay and he has told me he'd never date a trans guy because of the genitals issue (even post op he claims he can't get into). But he has seen trans men who he thinks are wicked hot, so I have a feeling this is related to something he's going through personally lol.

Quote from: birkin on June 24, 2014, 08:12:52 PM
Oh and, I think it depends. My brother is gay and he has told me he'd never date a trans guy because of the genitals issue (even post op he claims he can't get into). But he has seen trans men who he thinks are wicked hot, so I have a feeling this is related to something he's going through personally lol.

As he keeps seeing/meeting trans men who he finds hot and especially if he starts to get to know them and realize he likes them, I have a feeling he's going to get over that. I think a lot of us merely like certain genitals by association, e.g. "That's what's attached to what I like so I like that." When it finally sinks in that "that's not (necessarily) what's attached to what I like" then he may have a moment of self-realization. I don't think sexual orientation initially has much at all to do with that. At least it didn't for me and I'm sure I'm not that unusual.

I've gotten more nastiness from gay cismen than from anyone else. They will date transmen, but I think we're in a phase right now where our existence is believed to be up for debate, and there are no checks on in-group abuse. I am primarily attracted to gay men and always have been but I avoid them unless I'm feeling super confident.

Just like any other person really. Some will date us and some won't. Re: Dating a co-worker.... Not a great idea. In fact it may be against company policy depending on where you work.

I've dated several cis gay men and two of my closest friends are both gay, knew me before I came out and we're closer now than before. Dating either one would be like dating my brother though so hah.

People are people no matter their sexual orientation (or gender identity) so it's really hard to say whether a whole group (gay cis men) would be willing to date another group (gay trans men). Some will and some won't. Also remember there are bi, pan, omni and several more sexual identifying men who will date trans men.  :)

Regarding the co-worker thing, it's not a ''serious'' job, it's a store, so we work like once a week, and almost never have the same shift.
And I'm moving to another city in 2 months, so it wouldn't work anyway...  :embarrassed:

But thanks, for answers. I think it really depends, and I'm not sure he even knows I like guys too. But I don't want to write on fb that I'm ''interested'' in men and women, because I can't stand straight guys, who might see me as a ''vagina'', and therefore will try and hit on me.. (Not that a straight guy would find me attractive either lol. Maybe I'm safe)

I'm always surprised when I read questions like this because I have so many gay trans friends who date cis gay men, have steady relationships, have casual sex hookups and so on.

I know gay trans men men who use dating sites, go to sex clubs and bath houses or dark rooms. I know trans men with long term gay cis partners and husbands.

Like in all populations, some gay men are transphobic or just general idiots, and it is best to avoid them.

Others don't want to have a partner who has certain physical characteristics, and that's not transphobic (though the way he communicates it might be transphobic/insensitive). But it's completely ok if someone likes large penises that can ejaculate sperm. They have to fight for being allowed to like penis and some went to prison for it, so I think it's disrespectful to call that want alone transphobic. Rejection is not transphobia.
Sometimes rejection is not even about the junk but rather about social behavior or general insecurity (often on both sides).

But only a certain part of gay men is really strongly into penises. Others are fine with other junk too. Several gay tops have told a friend of mine that ->-bleeped-<-ing a man vaginally is a lot better than ->-bleeped-<-ing him anally, for anatomical reasons.
And many (more than 50% I think) are not into ->-bleeped-<-ing at all, they prefer ->-bleeped-<-s or handjobs.

Others just don't care, and are mainly into the man, not the junk.
We discussed this at a group last year that was attended by many cis gay men, and those who had dated trans men said that the body texture changes so much (smell, taste, skin) that in combination with male looks, they just saw the man and didn't care if he was trans.

All in all I've always found that gay men are the most open to me being trans. Over the years, only about 5 gay men have reacted negatively when I outet myself (out of more than 100), and one friend who dates online got rejected only by 3 men out of 60. And even they were polite.

If you want advise for dating gay men you can check out NotAnotherAiden's websites and Gaytransguys tumblr.
Both websites say that the major point when dating gay men is to be confident and go for what you want because gay men don't woo you like straight men or lesbians do. If you wait for that- you can wait long ;-) Gay men are much easier to date than lesbians or straight men or women once you've got the hang of it.

Quote from: Sebryn on June 24, 2014, 11:13:21 PM
I've dated several cis gay men and two of my closest friends are both gay, knew me before I came out and we're closer now than before. Dating either one would be like dating my brother though so hah.

This is something I've never quite gotten myself. I've had really close friends who I later developed quite a crush on over time. Often I wasn't attracted to them initially. Getting to know them is what made them become more physically attractive to me, or rather, maybe it made me care less about them not fitting what I would call my usual type.

On that note, I've followed some trans men on their YouTube channels for a year or more in some cases, enough to watch the transformation from looking female and not passing to passing really well and actually being quite attractive as a guy. It was enough to trigger a little conversation between the angel on one shoulder and the devil on another since I feel so completely gay and not at all bisexual. The little devil is saying "No way man! Off limits! Have you already forgotten that he was a GIRL just a little while ago?" and the little angel is going "OMG, so hot! Drop your hang-ups, man!" but then the little angel speaks up again and says "Nevermind what I said. You're twice his age, you dirty old man. You need more hang-ups."

It's been something of a lesson in gender for me and how similar men and women are in many ways. It reminds me that at the core, men and women really are very similar and a little chemical shift in one direction or the other can make all the difference, watching someone transform gradually like that and realize that it's the exact same person and yet he seems so different. I'm still gay though. I often wish I was bisexual. I'm jealous of those folks.

Quote from: staypositive1 on June 25, 2014, 04:43:24 AM
Regarding the co-worker thing, it's not a ''serious'' job, it's a store, so we work like once a week, and almost never have the same shift.

That really is different. The point with dating a coworker is if things go sour, you're stuck seeing them regularly, and that's a LOT more problematic if one of you is in a position of power over the other. If it's a somewhat disposable job and you can get another one like it fairly easily, then the risk is obviously not comparable.

My husband is bi, but I know some gay men that see pre-op transmen as fully male and will date them, and some that dont. I won't go so far as to say it's transphobic if a gay man won't date a preop transman because they may prefer that their partner be in possession of the sexual organ. Preferences don't make someone transphobic. But like with most things having to do with relationships and the like, it depends on the people.

I think many gay men is attracted to transmen like many straightmen are attracted to transwomen.
however theres a big taboo about it. In some way being trans we become abit of the forbidden fruith,
sure some gay men are very focused on the penis part
but theres also people who dont really care much or who may even prefern otherwise, these people however are kinda questionated and looked uppon like straight men who date transwomen get prejugdes.

I'm very glad this thread is here, as I too prefer men myself.  :D

As others may have mentioned, some gay cismen may be very focused on the gential area, but I believe there are many who are open-minded and can still see transmen as the men they are, somewhere in the world!

I have never had a gay male partner before, and the possibility of transphobia or being told they only date 'real men' is very daunting. ]:
To be honest, it's all down to that person's beliefs and personality and all that business. We all have preferences.

But I think it's just the same in any kind of relationship, gay straight bi or all or none of the above!  :laugh:

~ Elliott

I pulled my once-in-a-blue-moon favor to get a sitter tonight to go to a transguy meeting where the topic was sexuality, and I was hoping to see more discussion around dating gay men, but most transmen date girls. It was still really good to talk to trans people in person and it was good to hear all the viewpoints and experiences, of course, but I left feeling a bit less confident than I went in.

In particular it seemed like a lot of people were either in long-term relationships or completely celibate, and the talk around dating made it seem like those were the only acceptable options. I personally have no space in my life for romance, unless I find someone who can be comfortable being around a crazy kid all the time in addition to tolerating my own foibles, and even then I'm not sure I care to put in the effort right now. I'm a big fan of hookups and other internet-facilitated sexual relationships, and navigating that as safely as possible is something I think is worth talking about. I was disappointed that the general opinion seemed to be that if you put yourself in those situations you are being foolish and asking for trouble. Not everybody has their life wide-open to rearrange to match up with typical expectations around dating, and a lot of people who do aren't interested in doing that.

I might should check out some groups designed for gay men, but I'm nervous about whether or not to come out as trans and how that will alter other members' regard for me.

I know that this is a little ranty and sex isn't the same as the thread topic about dating.

Samantha is correct that there is a parallel problem facing lesbian transwomen. I look forward to younger generations coming of age and further shaping cultural attitudes towards gender so we can all be ourselves better.

Of course there are some gay men who date transguys--I know from experience :D However I must say, I have encountered A LOT of transphobia from the LG half of LGBT community where I live. I find it rather unfortunate...

xsmittyx, in what kind of area do you live?
I am wondering if discrimination is really dependent on the area?

I have had very good experiences with attending social groups, for example gay groups at university. Once I made some good friends I outed myself to them gradually and they all stuck around. I think it's really important to have a background of gay friends that support you.

Why is it important to have a background of gay friends specifically? Why does their orientation matter?

It's helpful if you want to join gay clubs and so on. When you have a support network, people take you places, introduce you, you meet new people through them. If people see that you are integrated, they will be much more open to your trans status. They take their cue from how other people behave. If they see that cis guys are friends with you and think you are a normal guy, they will behave the same way. At least that's my experience.

So you can do it on your own, but having bunches of gay friends makes it so much easier. And more fun ;-)
It's not that I went there to "use" cis guys, rather the other way around.
I liked to be friends with gay cis guys anyways, and noticed that the outing and dating situation was pretty easy for me, compared to others.

When I moved to another place where I didn't know any cis gay guys, everything was a lot more complicated.
This only works, if the cis guys are open minded, of course. You wouldn't want to get involved with transphobic idiots.

Basically, dating while being socially integrated in some context is the normal way of dating, I think. You meet potential dates through networks with shared interests, shared values etc. When you meet someone at a friend's birthday party, you can assume they won't be that terrible - not so much on the internet or with dating apps where you talk to complete strangers.

Quote from: Edge on July 22, 2014, 01:17:03 AM
Why is it important to have a background of gay friends specifically? Why does their orientation matter?

Because they're people who can relate, who you can talk with about certain issues and they can empathize. It was something that seemed invaluable to me as a young gay man though less so now.

Huh. That's odd. I choose my friends based on personality rather than orientation. I'd much rather be friends with guys whose personalities are compatible with mine and for whom both of our orientations are a non-issue than gay guys who I have nothing in common with.

Bunter-I'm in a US  city of about 52,000

Edge-I agree with you; I'm friends with folks who share similar outlooks (for me it's political leanings, kindness to animals, etc). I don't base whether I'm going to be friends w/someone based on their orientation. In fact, there's a trans group here that I've attended a few times...I couldn't have less in common with the folks there! The one and only thing I have in common with them is that we're all trans. For me, that's not enough.

Quote from: Edge on July 23, 2014, 08:32:15 AM
Huh. That's odd. I choose my friends based on personality rather than orientation. I'd much rather be friends with guys whose personalities are compatible with mine and for whom both of our orientations are a non-issue than gay guys who I have nothing in common with.

I don't know if you're gay, but if you are, then you have something in common with them. It's just one thing, but it's kind of a big thing that complicates the lives of a lot of people. Sometimes those people like to have a support network of other guys, maybe other gay women too, who can relate and help each other out. I feel I'm beyond that now, but when I was young, I needed it desperately. And besides, you might find you have more in common.

Quote from: xsmittyx on July 23, 2014, 11:40:22 AM
The one and only thing I have in common with them is that we're all trans. For me, that's not enough.

Once again, it's one thing and you might find more. Maybe you've worked through most of the stuph you needed to about being trans and it's not as big a deal but I would suggest trying to remember a time when it was all very confusing and no one seemed to understand or have answers to your questions. There are plenty of people who are still where you (probably) were at one time. The very existence of this forum just goes to show that it can be helpful to have a network of others who can relate. I'm just asking that you have a bit of empathy for people who value that. The implication here seems to be that those people are shallow for seeking out people based on one trait, but one trait can be a really big deal at certain phases of our lives.

Quote from: dalebert on July 23, 2014, 12:17:28 PM
I don't know if you're gay, but if you are, then you have something in common with them. It's just one thing, but it's kind of a big thing that complicates the lives of a lot of people. Sometimes those people like to have a support network of other guys, maybe other gay women too, who can relate and help each other out. I feel I'm beyond that now, but when I was young, I needed it desperately. And besides, you might find you have more in common.

I am attracted to men. My straight and asexual friends are as supportive of that as my gay and bi friends and they're also supportive of the trans status of me and a couple other people. The straight people may not be able to relate to being queer, but they can relate to being attracted to people. The cis guys may not be able to relate to being trans, but they are able to relate to being guys. I met all of them (gay, bi, ace, and trans included) by chance through other friends and through things we mutually like. I understand that I am lucky to have that, but I don't understand why gay friends specifically are considered so much better than supportive friends. I've had much worse luck looking among LGBT people specifically.

Edge, I agree that in general, a person ought to have friends of all sorts, and that there's nothing magic about being friends with people who share your sexual orientation. That said, I think you might not be giving enough weight to the context here. The OP wants to date gay men, yes? The best way to meet datable people is to be part of a community that includes those people: in other words, to make friends with them...

I don't think anyone has said that "gay friends specifically are considered so much better than supportive friends," except in that context.

It's just a matter of... swimming in the right pond.  ;)

Maybe. Honestly though, I met my boyfriend through something that I was invited to by a straight friend and it was an event that had nothing to do with orientation, so again, I fail to see why it matters.

I've had a few FtM's having an interest in me a few years back when I was in andro boymode. Even made out with one on a sofa and yes he knew of my dysphoria

It was confusingly hot and didnt lead to anything but I still think of what his life has become. Hmm. You travel in the opposite direction and you sometimes meet at a crossroads

Anyway, I wish you all the sexiest bf's/husbands in world  >:-)

Vivien

I think the real question is what makes them gay. If you flat out hate vaginas, then you aren't going to date a pre-op ftm. I personally hate penises and couldn't date a pre-op mtf for the exact same reason. Could I date a post-op? Maybe. I would imagine for someone who's gay it could be the same thing or it could be they feminine personality that bothers them. It depends on the person.

Quote from: awilliams1701 on July 23, 2014, 04:56:13 PM
I think the real question is what makes them gay. If you flat out hate vaginas, then you aren't going to date a pre-op ftm. I personally hate penises and couldn't date a pre-op mtf for the exact same reason. Could I date a post-op? Maybe. I would imagine for someone who's gay it could be the same thing or it could be they feminine personality that bothers them. It depends on the person.

Well, I think it depends on the person and their preferences. You don't fall in love with people based on their genitals, for the most part. Like when I see a woman, sure I might think about having sex with her, but for me it's about the woman as a whole, how she looks, acts, smells, speaks, thinks, etc. And for gay men, sure, penis is probably a part of the things they are into (if they fantasize about playing with a penis during sex) but more broadly, gay men like MEN, so if the guy is all around attractive, physically, mentally, and emotionally, the vagina is a really small part of that overall package. For some it could be a dealbreaker but I don't think that's the case for everyone. Love is about more than genitals.

dalebert, I totally get what you're saying, but the trans folks I know in my city are folks I wouldn't be friends with, trans or not. I'm not faulting them; thing is I'm a non drinking, vegan,  athletic, animal rights activist,  EarthFirst type  Anarchist who lives to be outdoors and be with animals and nature, plan on building my house from scratch, etc.  The folks I connect with here on those levels all happen to be a bunch of straight cis people.

The very small group of trans folks here are very much into the party / bar  scene, arrive at meetings with McDonald's bags, and talk a lot about material possessions, etc. One trans guy here is the most right wing, misogynist  guy ever and I would never hang out with him. We are just different folks, and that's fine.

On the other hand, I have trans  friends online who have traveled across the country to hang out with me and vice versa because we gel in all the ways that are important to me.

As a bisexual trans man who's dated a gay man.... yes! Haha. Obviously some people are gonna be really rude about it, but overall I've faced general acceptance from gay men who aren't trans, even if they themselves wouldn't want to date trans men. Then again, I'm younger and run in circles with younger people, so I can't say how older gay men are going to be, but those that I know have generally been pretty accepting of my wanting to date gay (and bi, but that's not really an issue) men.

Quote from: Edge on July 23, 2014, 08:32:15 AM
Huh. That's odd. I choose my friends based on personality rather than orientation. I'd much rather be friends with guys whose personalities are compatible with mine and for whom both of our orientations are a non-issue than gay guys who I have nothing in common with.

Of course. My personality is often very compatible with gay cis guys, and why shouldn't it. Ideally, I go places where I meet gay guys that have the same interests as me. If I can't find any in my area, that's problematic (happens mostly when living in smaller towns. In the big cities there are groups and networks for anything and everything).

Quote from: Edge on July 23, 2014, 04:06:51 PM
Maybe. Honestly though, I met my boyfriend through something that I was invited to by a straight friend and it was an event that had nothing to do with orientation, so again, I fail to see why it matters.

That's an ideal situation when you know lots of non LGBT people who are 100% understanding and open to LGBT issues.
It's probably also an age thing. When I first came out, straight and gay were mostly segregated, nowadays it seems a lot more mixed. As was said: if your whole environment is non-gay though, you won't find someone to date there.

At the moment, for technical circumstances, I'm mostly surrounded by straight people. They are nice and non-homophoic, but dating has become a huge problem. I'm not into online dating, so I'm really depending on meeting people through friends etc. But most straight people I know don't know that many queer people.

xsmittyx, you write you're an athlete. Do you maybe have gay sport clubs in your area?
Living in smaller towns and dating can be problematic for cis gays too, but totally hear you. There are some gay men who are into a more natural lifestyle. A trans friend of mine recently found his cis partner online, and they've gotten a house in the country now. I don't know how it's in the US, but over here we have interest groups on dating websites.
Generally, it's much easier to date when you have common interests, instead of going into a situation with the sole purpose of meeting someone.

Another thing about cis men- it seems that gay men who have had a later coming out, then dated men for maybe ten years or so, are very happy with trans men. They generally prefer men, but find it easier to mentally adapt to trans men than those who have never come near a woman and feel they might loose they gay cred or be swallowed by evil vagina :D . Several long term partners of trans men I know fall into the first category, so I think that's no accident.

solexander- I'm older and I've made the same experience (so have my friends who are age groups 25-50). The only exception would be the older generation that grew with really transphobic politics in the 1970s.