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Ok so I finally went to an urgent care clinic about my leg pain and they wound up putting me through an MRI or CAT scan don't remember which it was and found no blood clots.  That's good news.  But I can not for the life of me figure out why transdermal E make my right leg ache.  It's really strange.  I stopped the estrogen over the weekend and only after one day off the E the pain mostly went away. By Sunday it was gone.  Anyone else have an experience like this with estrogel?  What is the deal?

Any local irritation over the application point?  (Assuming you are applying on right side). Could be the adhesive or gel that disagrees with you.  Try placement on other side and see what happens.  A trip to the endo and looking at alternative administration might be worthwhile.

Quote from: luna nyan on July 01, 2014, 08:33:18 AM
Any local irritation over the application point?  (Assuming you are applying on right side). Could be the adhesive or gel that disagrees with you.  Try placement on other side and see what happens.  A trip to the endo and looking at alternative administration might be worthwhile.

Actually I use a gel on the arm.  The doctor who went over my results said the pain was probably from estrogen induced inflammation since E is pro-inflammatory.   He said I probably already had some inflammation to my hip joint and E was like throwing gasoline on the fire.

Maybe an allergy to something in the gel??

I do notice more dull pains than pre HRT. Like minor aches not just the legs, but whenever it happens a single aspirin seems to solve the pain. I would figure inflammation sounds about right because that is the only sort of pain that aspirin seems effective at, seeing as it is just an anti-inflammatory

I think it is quite good you got it checked out because you never can be too careful, not like having a stroke or DVT sounds very fun. I do notice the more I exercise the less I seem to have random aches and pains too.

Over the years, I've also noticed these aches on just E and since adding progesterone, these aches have practically disappeared. Both hormones do seem to balance each other out. Pretty neat. :)

Amy:

I have DVT  = deep vein thrombosis. With DVT one can get leg ulcers , blood clots and  pain the leg (which can be very painful) and goes with the disease.

Quote from: janetcgtv on July 01, 2014, 02:52:45 PM
Amy:

I have DVT  = deep vein thrombosis. With DVT one can get leg ulcers , blood clots and  pain the leg (which can be very painful) and goes with the disease.

Where you on estrogen at the time you developed the DVT?  If so pill form or other type?

Quote from: Amy1988 on July 01, 2014, 04:54:44 PM
If so pill form or other type?

It doesn't matter at all. "E" is the culprit no matter what form or administration method.  :)

Amy:

No, as I was told that DVT and estrogen can be fatal.  Due to Bleeding can happen because I take coumadin,ecotrin, and plavix which are all blood thinners. Plavix and ecotrin to keep heart stent open

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 01, 2014, 06:22:10 PM
It doesn't matter at all. "E" is the culprit no matter what form or administration method.  :)

Everything I've read about transdermal estradiol states it doesn't increase the risk of blood clots because no first pass through the liver.  I'm a little puzzled by the term first pass though.  Is there more than one pass?  Can't seem to find anything that explains first pass. 

Studies have shown that when bio-identical estrogen is taken non-orally, clotting is much less affected. In men with prostate cancer, for example, given high doses of estradiol transdermally (patches) or parenterally (injections), it was concluded by the authors that cardiovascular incidence and thrombosis was not increased and that transdermal estradiol was actually protective. But, the risk of clotting does increase somewhat in pregnant women whose levels of estrogen sharply rise, more so in women predisposed to it. There are also other factors that could contribute to clotting and during pregnancy, there are so many other things going on so who knows?

Bio-identical estradiol also appears to affect clotting much less than other estrogens like Premarin or ethinyl estradiol contained in birth control pills.

Based on all that evidence so far, it would seem that taking bio-identical estradiol, especially non-orally would cut down the risks significantly but as always, we all react differently. Some could be more prone to DVT than other based on a whole array of factors that your doctor needs to determine.

If you feel any of the symptoms of DVT coming on which you should ask your doctor what those symptoms are or check the internet, it's important to immediately contact health services/emergency, etc.

Also, one must realize that other medications can also affect clotting such as cyproterone acetate, medroxyprogesterone acetate, etc.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 01, 2014, 06:22:10 PM
It doesn't matter at all. "E" is the culprit no matter what form or administration method.  :)

Wut?  I was under the impression that, injection, implant, and transdermal were all recommended as a way to reduce the chance of dvt and doesn't increase your chance as well.???  ???

As far as pass and what it means is by taking estrogen the above way you do avoid the first pass which is the liver,  if you just take pills and swallow them they "pass"  through the liver first before they get to the body, because the liver pass's them first it reduces the amount of effective estrogen you get.

And from what I understand it toxifies the liver just a bit,  or reduces the livers ability to clean the toxins from your blood.

Quote from: calico on July 02, 2014, 02:16:35 PM
Wut?  I was under the impression that, injection, implant, and transdermal were all recommended as a way to reduce the chance of dvt and doesn't increase your chance as well.???  ???

As far as pass and what it means is by taking estrogen the above way you do avoid the first pass which is the liver,  if you just take pills and swallow them they "pass"  through the liver first before they get to the body, because the liver pass's them first it reduces the amount of effective estrogen you get.

And from what I understand it toxifies the liver just a bit,  or reduces the livers ability to clean the toxins from your blood.

Been doing a bit of research and apparently even transdermal E eventually makes it to the liver because the liver has two blood supplies.  One from the digestive system and one from the systemic system. Transdermal E just goes through the systemic system first. How that makes it safer I'm a bit confused about. 

I think it makes it safer because it hits our body first and by the time it makes it to the liver, there is very little the liver has to do.

Well, If was not a clot, maby it was just the usual aches and pains that go with HRT??? From what i understand, is that it is quite common. Maby the muscles getting smaller?? I get random "light" cramps/aches at various parts of my body, and it always plays with your mind...
Better safe than sorry i guess...
Im on spiro and e (tablet form)