Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Trans woman brutally attacked in Little Five Points
Patrick Saunders, July 3, 2014

"Video has surfaced online of a transgender woman being brutally assaulted in Little Five Points. The attack occurred in front of Stratosphere Skateboards. The Vine video was posted Tuesday and started circulating on Twitter late Wednesday.

A Vine user with the username TriAngle SquarE posted a series of Vines showing a trans woman in a verbal altercation with several people. The last video posted showed an unidentified man throwing the woman to the ground and then stomping on her head...."

More: http://thegavoice.com/trans-woman-brutally-attacked-little-five-points/

Video: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/graphic-video-shows-transgender-woman-being-attack/ngY82/

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SECOND crime against transwomen in my state. Seriously Georgia? I had faith in you........... Sigh, this legitimately made me wanna cry.

The first time I was homeless, barely a teenager, I went there because I thought it would be a safe place. I was wrong then and I would apparently be wrong now. Also I had curbstomping safely relegated to some back corner of my mind, filed as a possibly imaginary concept. I wish southern states in america would stop living up to the stereotypes about them.

Video here:
http://thegavoice.com/trans-woman-brutally-attacked-little-five-points/

Why is she instigating whatever it is upon herself and not walking away?

Am I blaming the victim? Maybe...

Quote from: Felix on July 03, 2014, 01:28:40 AM
The first time I was homeless, barely a teenager, I went there because I thought it would be a safe place. I was wrong then and I would apparently be wrong now. Also I had curbstomping safely relegated to some back corner of my mind, filed as a possibly imaginary concept. I wish southern states in america would stop living up to the stereotypes about them.

Same here, my school is incredibly accepting, I guess it was wrong to assume the rest of GA was like that.... And people wonder why others consider us less intelligent. :'(

@Evelyn: I don't think she was instigating, the vines might not have shown that the others had most likely called her out. I doubt she would've really just come up to strangers to yell in their face. Either way, she didn't deserve that. :(

No. She was outnumbered 1st. And she was probably on drugs 2nd from the way she was acting.

Not a safe proposition.

Pretty embarrassing behavior actually.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 01:38:12 AM
Video here:
http://thegavoice.com/trans-woman-brutally-attacked-little-five-points/

Why is she instigating whatever it is upon herself and not walking away?

Am I blaming the victim? Maybe...

Forgive me if I'm overstepping boundaries in my assumptions (I didn't check either link), but don't most transwomen have to contend with testosterone? It is an inappropriate biological cue for a body that already feels wrong for them, and it can make it harder to reign in touchy or black-and-white understandings of dangerous situations. I don't think I should read the articles even if it means I'm totally misinterpreting this, but I know it is really easy to overreact when one feels unsafe. No matter how badly she handled the situation, I assume she did the best she could and I can't believe that her gender presentation was irrelevant.

If they are medicated right T is usually suppressed to the point of irrelevancy, I don't think T has much bearing on flight-or-flight thinking processes which is mostly adrenalin.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 01:44:02 AM
No. She was outnumbered 1st. And she was probably on drugs 2nd from the way she was acting.

Not a safe proposition.

Pretty embarrassing behavior actually.

How can you assume that she would be on drugs for defending her gender? Even if I was outnumbered I would still defend my identity, I wouldn't be as aggressive, but everyone reacts differently to situations. Not everyone's going to handle difficult situations like the golden poppy in the field.

I'm not saying that her behavior was appropriate, but I honestly doubt she shouted to the skies "I'm a girl!" and 'brought the attack on herself' Even if she had, that's still no excuse for her to be brutally beaten for protecting her identity.

If you are that irresponsible for your safety in the face of a pack mentality, then I have nothing else to say.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 01:57:02 AM
If you are that irresponsible for your safety in the face of a pack mentality, then I have nothing else to say.

There were other people around, in fact, they were in front of a store, I doubt she expected to be attacked like that.

Lookup the "bystander effect"

Little Five Points is not a private place, and is not known for being conservative. I'm still not going to research this deeply, but I can't imagine any behavior that would justify violence. Maybe if she was threatening their children or something. All mammals get violent when their children are threatened. Was this a pack of mothers and fathers responding to an adrenaline-crazed transwoman who wanted to eat their babies?

I've lived here all my life and so sick of the discrimination and racism I've seen and been through. Goes to show Atlanta is not a safe place for us trans women.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 01:38:12 AM
Video here:
http://thegavoice.com/trans-woman-brutally-attacked-little-five-points/

Why is she instigating whatever it is upon herself and not walking away?

Am I blaming the victim? Maybe...

SMH she got her face stomped on! NO ONE DESERVES THAT

Evelyn you don't know if she was on drugs and if she was it doesn't matter. The moment it became physical is when the line was crossed. That guy who threw her down is in the wrong and needs to be arrested asap!

Doesn't change the fact that she could have de-escalated the situation.

Disappointed at what? That you didn't understand my point about people standing around doesn't ensure your safety?

Did you look up the "bystander effect"?

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 02:18:43 AM
Disappointed at what? That you didn't understand my point about people standing around doesn't ensure your safety?

Did you look up the "bystander effect"?

I know very well what the bystander effect is. But no matter how how she choose to react, it's wrong to assume the victim had brought it on herself and that she somehow deserved to be beaten.

If you shout at people like an insane psychopath you're not going to raise tensions and risk a consequential beat down.

Right.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 02:14:36 AM
Doesn't change the fact that she could have de-escalated the situation.

She could of been chased down. When someone wants to harm you they will do it no matter what. Trying to deescalate doesn't always work and a lot of people aren't calm enough to think that logically when they're in the middle of a tough situation.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on July 03, 2014, 02:29:24 AM

She could of been chased down. When someone wants to harm you they will do it no matter what. Trying to deescalate doesn't always work and a lot of people aren't calm enough to think that logically when they're in the middle of a tough situation.

Well sure. But this is cherry picking possibilities. Look at the video, in its entirety it shows her continuously lashing out. The bystanders where giggling because she was obviously making a fool out of herself. Then somebody finally got fed up.

So what though! Are you saying she deserved what happened to her because she lashed out?

Of course not. But you can't deny in a dangerous world - you need to check yourself.

Looking at that video I would say that it has clearly been edited (by the obvious cuts) to show only what she's saying and not what the others were doing to provoke her. The inclusion of the violence at the end seems to suggest that the video producer thought it was acceptable and warranted and that they were showing the punishment that they "deserved" for being trans and daring to stand up for themselves.

Evelyn, you may be making practical suggestions about dealing with a dangerous situation in an imperfect world. Yes it might be foolish to stand up to a crowd who could beat you up, I wonder how far the american civil rights movement would have gone if all black people had been too afraid of violence to speak out...
Your use of language here does make it seem like you feel it was all her fault.

[/quote]

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 01:57:02 AM
If you are that irresponsible for your safety in the face of a pack mentality, then I have nothing else to say.

The bystanders where giggling because she was obviously making a fool out of herself. Then somebody finally got fed up.

You never blame the victim.

Would you say that a woman wearing "provocative clothing" was asking to be raped?

It's difficult to make out what's being said on the video, but I'm pretty sure they aren't shouting "Please brutalise me! I need you to kick my face in!"

The ones at fault here were the assailants! Lady Oracle is correct, if assault is still a crime in Georgia then the people involved need to be arrested.

Look in the end I realize the assailants are ultimately wrong. That's a no brainer. But the victim has some bearing on responsibility for that. The video is telling.

Also there was no reason for Xenguy to neg me in the first place. I simply brought attention to some sociological street facts Xenguy might not have thought about. The neg back was legitimate.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 03:02:28 AM
The video is telling.

It doesn't bother you that the video was obviously edited from the frames lost and the shifts in perspective to only show responses and not possible provocation?

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 03:02:28 AM
Also there was no reason for Xenoguy to neg me in the first place. I simply brought attention to some sociological street facts Xenoguy might not have thought about.

He did so because your use of language makes it sound as though you are blaming the victim. Which Is Wrong.

I think what you're trying to convey is that they behaved in a way which provoked the violence they suffered, that standing up to a crowd may (you seem to be saying WILL!) lead to violence.

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 03:02:28 AM
Of course not. But you can't deny in a dangerous world - you need to check yourself.

Whilst you may be trying to explain that that is the unfortunate reality of the situation there, what the rest of us are trying to make clear to you is that that status quo is unacceptable.
Some of what you have said seems to suggest that if we were to stand up for ourself in that situation it would be acceptable for us to be beaten up in response.
This may not be what you're trying to say, however that is how it is coming across to me and I'm actively trying to look at it in a favourable light.
It seems like you are saying "this is how things are, it isn't going to change, get over it."

Quote from: Falconer on July 03, 2014, 03:31:10 AM
It doesn't bother you that the video was obviously edited from the frames lost and the shifts in perspective to only show responses and not possible provocation?

Take the video at face value and pretend there where no edits. Yes there's a possibility that somebody may have placed a "kick me" sign on her back, but irregardless interpret the video as it is. Do you *not* see that she is escalating the situation?

QuoteHe did so because your use of language makes it sound as though you are blaming the victim. Which Is Wrong.

The video cuts, so following on with your logic that the video may have been edited, maybe there's a possibility that she spat at the assailant or something otherwise?

It can be suspect either way in favor of her, or in favor of the assailant.

QuoteI think what you're trying to convey is that they behaved in a way which provoked the violence they suffered, that standing up to a crowd may (you seem to be saying WILL!) lead to violence.

If your not in good company, it sure might. LOL.

QuoteWhilst you may be trying to explain that that is the unfortunate reality of the situation there, what the rest of us are trying to make clear to you is that that status quo is unacceptable.

So stand up to it without using any tact and see what happens - like she did.

QuoteSome of what you have said seems to suggest that if we were to stand up for ourself in that situation it would be acceptable for us to be beaten up in response.

You're putting words in my mouth. Sometimes standing down is the only way to de-escalate and would sure seem like common sense when outnumbered.

QuoteThis may not be what you're trying to say, however that is how it is coming across to me and I'm actively trying to look at it in a favourable light.
It seems like you are saying "this is how things are, it isn't going to change, get over it."

Unfortunately you're right. It's not my wish, it's just reality.

QuoteWhat I was trying to explain was that FA who is an admin and ultimately makes these decisions has told me that negative retaliation for receiving negative rep is never legitimate, you should instead send him a mail and if he feels it is warranted he will remove the neg from your profile. As I suspect he will from Xenguy when he reads what you've posted here.

C'est la vie

Everyone please stop arguing. This is a terrible video to watch. ugh.

The victim does seem to be drunk or high, but that gives no reason for the jerk who stomped her face to take such an action. Sickening...

I too cringed when I saw the way the to-be-victim was responding. That is clearly a situation you walk away from or de-escalate as quickly as possible, but that doesn't make it their fault... at all.

Evelyn I never got the impression that you think it is totally her fault. Let's not back Evelyn up into a corner here. I think both of the negative rep points here are silly. I hope you can work out this misunderstanding over PM. This is the last subject we need to be fighting over after hearing this bit of news.

Quote from: Jennygirl on July 03, 2014, 04:13:37 AM
This is the last subject we need to be fighting over after hearing this bit of news.

Perhaps you're right, this dialogue does appear to be becoming more heated and less productive.

Can I ask just how common is this sort of violence in America?

From what's been said on both sides I feel I'm reading the situation differently because of my upbringing.

I was going to write:

"Whilst violence definitely occurs in Scotland, in my life I've never seen any kind of group attack or heard of bystanders just watching someone be beaten up in this manner."

Then I remembered that I've been attacked by two people at once whilst a group looked on and didn't intervene.
Mind you we were 12/13, that fight was over very quickly and no one tried to stomp on my face.
They just struck me over the head with a heavy object then laid into me whilst I was still blinded from the initial blow.

If anything, in my experience Scottish people try too hard to be accepting of others.
They go up to people in ethnic minorities and other minority groups and tell them how great it is to see them doing so well for themselves... which I'm not sure is particularly flattering.
It's like suggesting that they've overcome a disability :(

Then again I don't live in Glasgow...

In the wrong part of town I'm sure it happens very frequently in America. Jerks are everywhere, and some are maniacal. I don't know if that tidbit is so much related to America, though. Verbally challenging a psychotically agressive group of people could result terribly regardless of how you look.

And thanks for the understanding on the heatedness. Hopefully all the arguing is over now!

"Can I ask just how common is this sort of violence in America?"

It is very common, to the point that most of us are conditioned to keep it in the family (or in the community) or at least not ever name names or press charges. If you do go to the police, nothing happens. Even if I take out times I've been personally assaulted (I'm clearly biased, and can't always be logical as to why I was attacked) I've got countless experiences where I saw a person say or do the wrong thing and get hit for it. We make excuses for it, push it away, try not to think about it, but violence is very normal in our culture.

Not having lived anywhere else, I assume that violence isn't out of the ordinary in most countries, and we just have varying degrees of tolerance. Where I live, we like to think that vulnerable people can always get help. We take our violent impulses and mostly channel them into blowing people's faces off in video games or into first responder training for when the terrorists show up. I'm of course ambivalent about all this. I could live in the most peaceful nation on earth and I'd probably still be twitchy about emotional and physical abuse.

Plus I've still got a chip on my shoulder about people on the street attacking one another. Seriously, some of these urban hubs are the safest places available for certain people, and if they aren't at least as safe as chicago or los angeles that's pretty messed up.

Back when I lived in Atlanta (it's where I grew up), I recall hearing that L5P had the highest violent crime rate in the country and I understand Atlanta in general is pretty high. Seemed difficult to believe at the time. When I've been there, it didn't particularly feel that way. I don't think I've ever been there at night. I'm glad to now be in one of the lowest crime rate areas in the country.

Quote from: Falconer on July 03, 2014, 04:40:11 AM
Can I ask just how common is this sort of violence in America?

Really depends on the context. I've lived 52 years in America and never seen this sort of violence. But I don't move in the circles where this sort of thing is condoned and commonplace.

As for the video, very hard to tell what happened. I agree that the victim appears compromised (high, drunk, or limited). It's not clear how the fight started. The only part of the violence we see is the victim on the ground being kicked in the face. Not clear if the kicker is putting all his weight into the blow or pulling up and just trying to scare the victim (either one would be felony assault). And of course nearly all of the confrontation has been edited out. We just see a phrase here and there.

There are so many ways this could have actually happened that I feel like I need a whole lot more info before I could draw any judgments about what I've seen.

Well honestly if somebody is harassing me verbally I'm not going escalate the situation. Had she just walked away instead of continuing the argument she would have not been attacked. I noticed the same thing with the Marta incident a month or two ago. Whatever somebody might say it's not worth getting into a fight over.

Quote from: suzifrommd on July 03, 2014, 08:15:06 AM
As for the video, very hard to tell what happened. I agree that the victim appears compromised (high, drunk, or limited). It's not clear how the fight started. The only part of the violence we see is the victim on the ground being kicked in the face. Not clear if the kicker is putting all his weight into the blow or pulling up and just trying to scare the victim (either one would be felony assault). And of course nearly all of the confrontation has been edited out. We just see a phrase here and there.

It's bizarre. I can't imagine how it would be like that unless it was intentional. It's 21 seconds of video! Obviously a lot more happened. It feels like they edited it down to just what would make the trans woman look bad.

There are quite a few things that bother me about that video and the story. And honestly make me a little skeptical. When she goes down you can clearly see the guy in the white shirt go to not kick but stomp her in the head. There is a black and white pole that is inconveniently placed that hides the violence of the action of the guy stomping her in the head. I watched it over and over again and stopping it at different places during the assault. At the very end the assaulters shoe is visible on the other side of the pole and doesn't really seemed consistant with the woman's head or where it should be.

Some other things other than the video. The police have no record of assualt during that time, no records of a hospital treating someone with head trauma. If someone stomps you in the head, bones are gonna break, cheekbones, nose, jaw and the cranium itself. Stomping will cause much more damage than just kicking because her head would have been between the pavement and the energy from the act of stomping would have to be fully absorbed by her head. From the way it looked to me and the sheer force the assualter put into the stomp there would have been severe head trama.

Also, last but not least. If you go to the page on the link that Evelyn provided and look at the stillshot. from the video, you can see her hand on his ankle. Sort of like she was guiding it more away from her face and head. And that black and white striped pole that hides the actual act.

I am sorry but if someone was assaulted and stomped in the head with that kind of violence an amblulance or maybe even a coroner would have to be called. And the police would definately become involved and there would be police records of the assault.

I am not saying it is not true but something just doesn't seem to add up to equal the percieved severity of the assault. I could be wrong but I hope I'm not and it was just staged by aspiring young filmakers. And it wouldn't be the first time aspiring film makers put things on youtube.

This is just my opinion and what I see but in this case 2+2 is not equalling out to 4 for me.

That video with that headstomping totally made my heart jump. Way too brutal. Scared me just seeing it. Still minutes later I'm unnerved.

But, I think I'm going to have to somewhat agree with Evelyn. No matter what they were saying, she took it too far and the wrong way with how and how much she retorted back to them. Her behavior was typical male. She got overly aggressive and even threatened to kick their asses. She got the beat down instead. Should've just walked away.

Here's something of a similar example but involving me. Back when I used to work at Toys R Us, I was coming down the stairs back in receiving from the stockrooms up there, two guys were down there in the back, one being one of my long time coworkers, the other a newbie. I see and hear them laughing, mostly the new guy. Then, once I get down there and past them, about to bring what I had out onto the salesfloor, new guy trying to act cool in front of the guy, calls out to me, "Hey ->-bleeped-<-got!" Okay, that was uncalled for. I had just started living full time as a woman, but can't recall if I had been estrogenized yet then (maybe not), still uncomfortable with trying to adapt. Still a lot of testosterone in my system apparently by what I do next. So I turn around and curse at him, think I said ,"->-bleeped-<- you!", He merely laughed again. Said, "What you going to do ->-bleeped-<-got?" I threatened him, told him to step outside with me and we'll see. I was acting tough, but inside, shaking something terrible. He laughed again, made a kiss at me.

Afterwards one of my ->-bleeped-<- managers approached me, told me what that guy said I said to him, I told him the truth of what happened. I got in trouble because I should've went to them if someone were giving me a hard time. Yeah, right, like they'd actually do anything, didn't before with other problems I had (sexual harassment/assault by a fellow coworker, stolen coat by another). I went outside, balled my brains out. Another coworker, really nice young guy, saw me crying, I told him what happened, he felt bad for me, actually gave me a hug, told me it'll be okay. After I calmed down I went back inside and back to working.

That new guy only worked there for a few days, didn't last long, thankfully because he was trouble, maybe he quit, but I'm thinking most likely got fired for doing something he wasn't supposed to, but highly doubt it was because of me, otherwise he'd been gone that very day.

There are better ways of handling things, I chose the wrong one. What if he took me up on that challenge, I may've been strong for my size, but I'd never really gotten into any real fights before, I'd probably have had my head stomped against a curb. Or what if he decided to get me another time, maybe bring his friends along for the fun, then what.

So yeah, as horrible as what happened to her, she could've prevented that from happening. Sure, maybe they may've followed her and continued to harass her for a bit, but at least try to get to someplace relatively safe. Sometimes fleeing don't work, but aggressiveness like that, yeah, you're asking for it. Shut the ->-bleeped-<- up, walk away.

It might not be wise to agree with me Megan. You might incur the wrath of young pissy little snipers who still have a lot to learn about this warfare called life. ;)

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 12:34:34 PM
You might incur the wrath of young pissy little snipers who still have a lot to learn about this warfare called life. ;)

And insulting people is a good way to demonstrate your own maturity?  ;)

Quote from: Falconer on July 03, 2014, 01:31:59 PM
And insulting people is a good way to demonstrate your own maturity?  ;)

Sometimes derision is needed to underscore the error of their ways. ;)

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 12:34:34 PM
It might not be wise to agree with me Megan. You might incur the wrath of young pissy little snipers who still have a lot to learn about this warfare called life. ;)

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 03, 2014, 01:53:06 PM
Sometimes derision is needed to underscore the error of their ways. ;)

So let me see if I've managed to grasp your gist in my own inexperienced and erroneous manner.

Not only are those who assume a contrary position to you both Pissy (arrogantly argumentative) and Snipers (those who attack a person or a person's work with petulant or snide criticism) but the only method through which you can convey that they are definitely wrong in attempting to hold an civil and reasoned discussion by explaining their point of view and attempting to understand your own ("error of their ways") is through verbal abuse and the commission of the ad hominem fallacy?

*If not everyone is aware, the abusive use of the ad hominem fallacy usually involves attacking the traits of an opponent as a means to invalidate their arguments.
As an example: describing them as arrogant, petulant, little or inexperienced rather than trying to logically argue that their point of view is wrong.

Evelyn, I credit anyone reading this thread with the capability and experience to determine whether someone has behaved with arrogance or made any "pissy sniping" comments about others.

Unlocked this topic. Keep the discussion on  the issue or else. If you have a complaint about a negative rep, contact FA or me. In this case the smite was retaliatory and that is never ok.

I'm with Evelyn on thus one. Had she used common sense it would of perhaps saved her from the beating. I'm not at all saying she shouldn't defend herself but in a pack??? Ya she needs to use better judgement than that.

But it just goes to show the lack of maturity the Atlanta area has. Just last month there was an attack on two trans women on the transit system. No one helped at all, people actually just watched the entire thing unfold. They were chased down and it ended in a beat down. There is a serious problem in this state regarding transphobia. I'd like to get into activism at some point here but until I have my life an order, I can't tackle such huge issue just yet.

It's not the whole Atlanta area really, Atlanta actually has some good pride movements going on, lots of resources for trans* people, and one of biggest pride parades. :) It's just certain people ((too many if you ask me)) who aren't as educated on the topic of the transgender community. However, then again Atlanta isn't known for being sugar, spice, and everything nice with the trans* community, >.<  Which is why I'm sad because I live close and have faith in it. So I do agree that it needs more activism, the faster we get the word out that we are real people and behavior like this isn't tolerated, the better it will be for the Atlanta trans* community.

Graphic video shows transgender woman being attacked

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/graphic-video-shows-transgender-woman-being-attack/ngY82/
July 4, 2014

ATLANTA —

A video shows an attack in Little 5 Points. There is a confrontation between a transgender woman and a group of men. She yells and verbally confronts the group.

A man stomps on the woman's head in the graphic video.

The attack is alarming to a group called Transgender Individuals Living Their Truth Incorporated also known as TILT Inc. Group members said there has been an increase of attacks on transgender persons lately.

Quote from: Xenguy on July 04, 2014, 09:16:58 PM
It's not the whole Atlanta area really, Atlanta actually has some good pride movements going on, lots of resources for trans* people, and one of biggest pride parades. :) It's just certain people ((too many if you ask me)) who aren't as educated on the topic of the transgender community. However, then again Atlanta isn't known for being sugar, spice, and everything nice with the trans* community, >.<  Which is why I'm sad because I live close and have faith in it. So I do agree that it needs more activism, the faster we get the word out that we are real people and behavior like this isn't tolerated, the better it will be for the Atlanta trans* community.

Oh yea I definitely agree, I mean thats where my endo is and plus its the one city in Georgia with full lgbt protections but the people are a different story. Nice to see someone else here who is from the Ga! NICE TO MEET YOU Xenguy!!!

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on July 04, 2014, 09:35:40 PM
Oh yea I definitely agree, I mean thats where my endo is and plus its the one city in Georgia with full lgbt protections but the people are a different story. Nice to see someone else here who is from the Ga! NICE TO MEET YOU Xenguy!!!

Thank you xD I think Georgia needs to do more if it's to catch up with other states in terms of trans* rights and the educating of others on this topic. It's close with protections, unfortunately, it's activism should step it up a little. Really sad that right now it's one of the most well known states for crimes against trans* people. :'( Also, I just realized I forgot the link to the article on the first post *facepalm* Thank you for the link Natasha!

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 04, 2014, 09:22:57 PM
I'm actually cool with being negged. Can I get 5 more anyone? :D

(yes it's a dare)

I think you're getting negged less for having a strong opinion (something I respect) than for being so tactless about how you express it as with the insults and such. I wouldn't even go so far as to say there's never a time for insulting someone, but this is a support site first and foremost and I think it calls for additional tact versus a forum that is more about having potentially heated discourse over certain topics.

FWIW, I haven't negged you. If memory serves, I don't think I've ever negged anyone here.

I understand advice to be more cautious around potentially dangerous people. I think people are too quick to accuse someone of victim blaming for what is actually just reasonable advice for dealing with potential criminals whether that be violent bigots, rapists, etc. I love the idea of living in a crime-free world but in the meantime I lock my house and my car and I avoid certain areas of town that I know are sketchy at night if at all possible. If I get attacked, it's not my fault. I have a right to walk through sketchy areas of town at night, but that doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do. I have a right to stand up for myself if a crowd of angry-looking bigots starts insulting me but that doesn't mean it's a smart thing to do. I can argue to the ends of the Earth about how I had a right to stand up to them, and I'd be correct, but that's not going to uncave my skull after the fact.

Getting off track again, folks. Take your squabbles elsewhere.

Unfortunately, I'm not particularly shocked this occurred given the frequency and severity of violence against trans people (particularly people of colour). It doesn't make the video any less deeply distressing or heart-breaking to watch, it's horrific when anyone is subjected to violence but especially so for me when the person in question appears to be vulnerable in multiple ways.

While I appreciate the content is highly edited and it's necessary to help people deal with realities, I can't accept resorting to violence at all, let alone with such potential force, if it wasn't self-defence and can only accept reasonable force in that case. I also won't generally comment on things the victim did since I don't want to feed into a culture that will reduce the severity of shame directed at the attacker based on those things. I dislike the prevalence of violence and I hope one of the best ways to change that is to change the culture surrounding acceptance of excuses. Some things need challenging, I include what 'common sense' says people should expect to happen in that since I think it's often a self-fulfilling prophecy and needs to be dragged in a direction that leads to greater respect for bodily integrity. Additionally, commenting on conduct after-the-fact is quite different to preparing for hypotheticals, in my mind.

One major issue I do have is that this received rapid coverage in communities I know and beyond. I'm hoping that it's due to factors like the graphic nature of the footage but I find the possibility of a racial element disconcerting. I don't mean to suggest anyone on this forum is motivated by this but I have noticed that other groups are uncharacteristically willing to pounce on this when it's a black man ostensibly attacking a white trans person. When the race relationship is reversed, crimes often seems to get minimal coverage and attention from those same groups.

Quote from: Megan Joanne on July 03, 2014, 12:26:06 PMHer behavior was typical male. She got overly aggressive and even threatened to kick their asses.

I pre-emptively apologise if I'm misunderstanding and for commenting on such a trivial point but I object to this somewhat if my reading is correct. Specifically, I don't think it's fair to risk echoing a tactic of virulent transphobes when discussing a trans woman's behaviour. In my mind, characterising a woman's actions as 'male' comes awfully close to subtly misgendering and erasing identity for me. It's also very gender essentialist. For me, if a woman is aggressive and assertive as part of her gender expression then the fact it belongs to a woman inherently makes it impossible for it to be 'male'. I entirely understand if others disagree with that based on some male socialisation arguably taking place or think the comparison is a useful one. :)