Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Some trans people seem to somehow adapt to their environment, seemingly becoming grounded in their assigned birth gender for the rest of their lives. This of course might initially be brought on by religious or family pressure, a commitment to self-sacrifice, embarrassment, etc. However, over the long term they, for whatever reason, do come to accept their trans condition as immutable, and they somehow learn to adapt and live their lives without stressing over it. For these people, what are the real hidden costs?

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I tried that for twenty years and I just went further and further down the plug hole of despair. Just yesterday I was thinking about where I'd be now if a certain life event hadn't kicked me out of my denial and self imposed belief that "I was born with a dick, so I just have to live my life as a dude, like it or lump it"...and I think I would have been a horrible place even further down the plug hole.

Quote from: Ms Grace on July 05, 2014, 06:55:55 PM
... denial and self imposed belief that "I was born with a dick, so I just have to live my life as a dude, like it or lump it"...

I'm afraid a lot people have ended up going down that road, some longer than others.

for me it came to the fork in the road , either jump off a build or stay alive there  was no alternative.

Quote from: Suziack on July 05, 2014, 07:04:08 PM
I'm afraid a lot people have ended up going down that road, some longer than others.

I guess if they don't feel too miserable then it's all cool. For me, without realising it, it was crushing my soul.

It generally isn't healthy since you're repressing your own desire to be the gender you really are deep down just for the sake of satisfying society. At least that's how I looked at it when I initially denied my feelings since there was no name for it when I was younger and I believed that everyone would freak if I even questioned it so I did nothing about it until I lost my job and got rejected to graduate school. Only now am I accepting myself and trying to correct the problem before it reaches the "do or die" stage.

It depends. For most, I'd say no. And of those are varying tolerance and dysphoria levels. One person may be able to function well as their assigned sex and someone else not at all.

Some might be able to handle it. I mean, trans people have been coping with it since the beginning of time. Trans women had a means of hormone modification (castration), but not so for trans men. Healthy? I don't know. What's healthy? Being comfortable and happy in your own skin?

Some people are better at dealing with (is issues the right word?) than others, but whether it's healthy or not is hard to say depending on the impact it has on your life. Some people just also have an excellent poker face and manage to cover up a pretty crushing internal struggle.

I'm 22 now and said for a long time I wouldn't do pursue anything in regards to transitioning, but as my presence here probably indicates it's not going to plan. Having said that, I notice that there seems to be a point at which some sort of mental defense mechanism sets in and you just feel "whatever" to everything - like some sort of emotional block and you go on with life in an almost autopilot kind of way. The first couple of times I reached this I thought my feelings were a phase that I grew out of and I was "normal" again, but really I just tried to slot myself into a walking stereotype with no unique characteristics or anything that ultimately make me an individual.

That for me largely seems to encompass what living as my assigned gender is - "do this, because that's what men do". The fears associated with transitioning (will I pass? will I be accepted? will I be laughed at?) are avoided by just "getting on with it" but the cost is my overall mental happiness - I feel like more of a "character" than a person, generally awkward and out of place anywhere other than when I'm alone. If anyone has ever found a way to truly overcome the mental turmoil and conflict I wish they'd share it. It seems the best you can do is outrun it for a little while.

like erem said ..it depends on the person and the impact of dysphoria on their lifes to get to the point of saying "its either that i give up on the world
"
obviously it would be harder on people with strong and consistant dysphoria [at least how i see it] then people who barely feel it

All I can say is pre transition:
Blood pressure 180/112
Pulse 118
Blood sugar >400
Depression, anxiety, irritability, explosive temper and isolation

After 10 months of transition and HRT:
Blood pressure 118/76
Pulse <86
Blood sugar <140
Happy, outgoing, calm, rational and well adjusted

I believe some lives are shortened by not transitioning.  :)

I had something similar. As I delayed my transition so that I could secure myself both financially and non-financially various problems piled up: epilepsy, digestion issues, shaky hands, blood circulatory problems, failing kidney, random breakdowns... Then of course typical depressions, isolation, anxiety, despair, psychological breakdowns that grew more intense.

My medical record was practically thrown from the window when I started my transition because 90% was classified as of psychosomatic/psychogenic origins. And I can confirm that as I do feel much healthier and none of the scratched problems appear anymore. I received a nearly perfect health record with the exception of my eye-sight issues (and related) as that would be a huge surprise if those suddenly fixed themselves :-D .

Blood pressure before transition: 90/60 but also as low as 60/30 (yes, I was alive but I collapsed shortly after it was measured :-) )
Current blood pressure: 110/80

Psychologist who confirmed my female gender identity even told me about a case when transition fixed diabetes. And I'm sure he has quite a list of other such things.

I have a couple of things to say on this issue.

First, I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  Gender is not a choice, but transition IS a choice!  Each individual can choose how to live their lives, and are free to decide whether or not to transition regardless of their missmatch between their biology and gender identity.

For some of us the choice to transition would be catastrophic to our lives.  While it is true that choosing to live our lives based on our biology rather than our gender identity can cause significant discomfort, the complete destruction of a comfortable life that has taken decades to make, and one where other people are also dependent on us, would cause much much more discomfort than not transitioning.

Also, you need to be extremely careful when comparing quantitative things like blood pressure before and after transition since the primary anti-androgen (spiro) is basically blood pressure medication. 

Just my $0.02

J.

Quote from: SciNerdGirl on July 06, 2014, 04:24:16 AM
Gender is not a choice, but transition IS a choice! 

I do not appreciate this judgment leveled at this community. Do you honestly think we would transition if there was any other way around it? Transition is not a choice to the majority of our members here.

Each individual can choose how to live their lives, and are free to decide whether or not to transition regardless of their missmatch between their biology and gender identity.

Obviously your Dysphoria is mild and I am very happy for you on that. Not everyone has the luxury of not transitioning though. Please do not judge those that do.

For some of us the choice to transition would be catastrophic to our lives.

It is catastrophic to all our lives in some way, shape or form.

While it is true that choosing to live our lives based on our biology rather than our gender identity can cause significant discomfort, the complete destruction of a comfortable life that has taken decades to make, and one where other people are also dependent on us, would cause much much more discomfort than not transitioning.


Personal opinion noted. Please remember this is a SUPPORT site, not one where transitioners come to be made to feel guilty about transitioning due to personal discomfort levels allowing no other choice, but transition.

Also, you need to be extremely careful when comparing quantitative things like blood pressure before and after transition since the primary anti-androgen (spiro) is basically blood pressure medication.

I am a retired professional career Paramedic and merely listed my vitals both pre and post HRT. No claims were made other than general posting. Members here take it for information and comparison

All;
This is an interesting question. Since starting back on E - 14 months ago;
1. My blood pressure has dramatically improved. A doctor recently told me I had the blood pressure of a young 20 year old woman 120/80. Not bad for someone 62 (this doctor was doing my blood pressure for a fitness  insurance assessment - so not my TG Specialist!
2. My diabetes issues have gone - I was borderline
3. My arthritis in my knees is dramatically alleviated (a lot less pain)

but
Ouch - my nipples and aureloea itch and itch and ache and ache!!

Well said Jessica!

I think it would be rare, but possible. It would take a superhero though.

Quote from: Suziack on July 05, 2014, 06:46:17 PM
This of course might initially be brought on by religious

The stories I've heard of this usually involve people ending up rallying hard against their nature via discrimination activism. All the better to embrace that transition is the path God put before you and so God is for transition, not against.

Quote from: Suziack on July 05, 2014, 06:46:17 PM
Family pressure

Great way to come to resent your family. I feel for people in this position, especially those who are financially dependent on them and trapped in their assigned gender because of them. Hard to see how this one ends well.

Quote from: Suziack on July 05, 2014, 06:46:17 PM
a commitment to self-sacrifice

That's just an unhealthy approach to life. Why should you always have to sacrifice things you want so others can have what they want? When, under this mentality, does the holder of this belief get to do what they need to be happy?

Quote from: Suziack on July 05, 2014, 06:46:17 PM
embarrassment

No reason to be embarrassed about being trans. But when it is the reason you get risk of self loathing which can turn the thinker nasty.

It's better to be you.

Quote from: Suziack on July 05, 2014, 06:46:17 PM
Some trans people seem to somehow adapt to their environment, seemingly becoming grounded in their assigned birth gender for the rest of their lives. This of course might initially be brought on by religious or family pressure, a commitment to self-sacrifice, embarrassment, etc. However, over the long term they, for whatever reason, do come to accept their trans condition as immutable, and they somehow learn to adapt and live their lives without stressing over it. For these people, what are the real hidden costs?

Constant simmering anger, resentment, and pain.... well hidden of course....

I pretended and accepted the male role for 4 decades.. you know in the name of kids, marriage, and profession... after so many years I reached a point where the transition was not only imperative but a matter of life and death...

In my opinion there is no such a thing as a "happy acceptance of our GID status" just denial and pretension and acting... you can run but not hide... resistant is futile

Honest to god I could give a crap less about gender. I am me as mixed up and confusing as I am to people. Yes I do have dysphoria to an extent but can beat it back for the most part. Someone calls me Sir that is fine, someone calls me Ma'am I am fine. But we all have different levels on the spectrum that we are comfortable with, luckily I found mine. Some that force themselves to try to be the gender they were born with, the key word being force, I don't think is very healthy. Jessica gave and extremely good example even though Spiro may be used as blood pressure meds it's not Psycho meds or antidepressants other than the relief of the dysphoria and moving in the right direction for her.

Peky makes another good point, you can't run or hide from GID and we may fool ourselves. I think I may have found a happy medium but it is dynamic and tommorrow I may set up an appointment with my shrink to take it a little further. Again peky made a good point, simmereing anger resentment and pain. I have experienced all of them. But once I told someone, the shrink, that kind of went away but again tommorow is another day.

As for the vitals, all of mine are normal and on the healthy side, right now. Depression and anxiety is more or less under control even from a high strung fast living person.

Right now I would say my assigned gender is a mixture of the two 'cause I sure don't look or act like the average male speciman but can in a pinch. Thoughts, emotions reactions and intuition and some physical characteristics fall within the female range which is why I use the "F". But tomorrow is a different day and I may feel differently. One day at a time is all anyone can live and what we are happy with toda, we may hate tomorrow.

As Jessica, Misha, Stephanie and a lot of others said it certainly has been healthy for me. Lost 100lbs, went from pre hypertensive (140's systolic/80 diastolic) to 110/70, reduced my risk of prostate cancer and diabetes immensely. Oh, and reducing the risk of suicide from near certain to nil helped as well :)

I see this question as more a general human health question vs. a transition question because any human being that isn't living a life congruent with who they are can and often do develop psychological and physiological health issues associated with their denial.

Living this kind of life takes a great deal of energy as every part of you is trying to unconsciously rise to the surface to make itself known so it can be embraced.

Does that mean that a person can't make a deliberate decision to not become who they were meant to be? I'm sure they could but before this can happen a "full" embracing of ones truth must take place first. Then and only then can a person decide to love themselves unconditionally regardless of whether they decide to move forward with changes in their lives or not. Anything less than this unconditional acceptance is most likely resistance and denial. 

If anyone uses the argument that transitioning is a choice then I agree & respond with: I reached the point where I was consumed with the urge to kill myself rather than continue pretending to be male so I "chose" life instead of death, not much of a choice is it?

I started HRT about 8 months ago after fighting the NHS for almost 3yrs for treatment, before that i'd been battling depression on & off for most of my life. I'd been on sleeping tablets & happy pills for most of those 3yrs, a few weeks ago I stopped taking the happy pills & I've never felt happier in my life so I guess i'd made the right "choice" to embrace life as a woman rather than death as a man.

In a short answer, no.

I too had some unbelievable physical and mental changes on HRT. I too had arthritis in one knee and in some hand joints which is all gone. The bubbling anger is gone :) and I smile. I feel so limber. My A1C has been 5.2 for 1 year and my PA said I no longer have diabetes ( I gained 12 pounds on HRT over the year).

I added progesterone a month ago and I was told I would only notice some breast increase in size. I think progesterone is the icing on the cake. I think my memory is a bit better and I am a higher level of happy. I even feel like dancing and singing sometimes. I think I can make decisions even better now.

My dysphoria is still the same though :( (with adding P)

I don't believe it's healthy or ethical.

Yes, I could have survived as my birth gender. But my brain seriously wasn't wired to have testosterone in it. Pretty much every single day since I was 13, I've dealt with body aversion, hating the body hair, hating the male shape, hating the muscles, hating the way my emotions worked (or more accurately didn't work,) constantly fighting against my sex drive, and constantly fighting against my feminine desires and being ashamed of them.

Yes, I survived. I'm a big tough girl. But living as someone with no sense of self-esteem because I hated my body so much, and constantly having to fight against my own reflection and the way that my mind worked, was seriously not fun.

I lived. But at the same time, I had no friends, I'd basically forgotten how to talk to people, I barely made it through school at all despite having enormous academic potential, and I felt like I was living my life in a perpetual state of dull grey dreary melancholy. HRT allowed me to see the full colors of the rainbow again, for the first time since I was 12 years old.

So no, I'd say it's not healthy. Yes you can survive. But you very well might just be watching your life, and your chance at feeling happy and normal, slowly slip by. And I'm still tortured by all those years that I wasted being miserable.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 06, 2014, 09:10:35 PM
I lived. But at the same time, I had no friends, I'd basically forgotten how to talk to people, I barely made it through school at all despite having enormous academic potential, and I felt like I was living my life in a perpetual state of dull grey dreary melancholy. HRT allowed me to see the full colors of the rainbow again, for the first time since I was 12 years old..

OMG! This totally. Are you my twin sister? :)

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 06, 2014, 09:21:47 PM
OMG! This totally. Are you my twin sister? :)

I think maybe we were a set of trilets

Thank you Jess, I was actually a bit hurt by SciNerdGirl's comments. While I respect her's and everyone else's opinion, Had I not started my full transition when I did just after Christmas last year I'd be dead. I'm quite sure the third time would have been a charm meaning, my 3rd suicide attempt successful because I live alone, and at the time no one would have been checking on me to see if I was Okay. :icon_cry: :icon_cry2: :icon_cry:

Since I've began hrt/full transition, all suicidal thoughts are gone, my dysphoria has been lowered considerably and only crops up to seriousness when I use the bathroom and must deal with that awful repulsive discusting thing that shouldn't be there, :icon_blah: :icon_blah: :icon_blah: and this coming December I'll be having my SRS so even that is being dealt with, and knowing it will be gone then calms my bathroom dysphoria considerably. I'm in general a much happier, and cheerful person compared to who I was pre transition, my overall health has improved as has been the case with others here, I feel 30 years younger and wake up each morning looking forward to each and every day no matter how challenging my obligations may be. And as I now see a beautiful woman staring back at me in the mirror each night as I wash my makeup off, I go to bed with happy thoughts and a smile.

So in essence, my life has turned a 180 from certain doom toward lifelong happiness. For me there wasn't any choice. And my being intersexed prevented me from living in an "assigned gender," for I was assigned both.

Ally :icon_flower:

No its not! Like so many that have posted already it was mentally crippling. On top of that I also had severe back pain and pain in my hips that would never go away. Just a few weeks on estrogen fixed all of that pain I had for so many years. Testosterone was undoubtedly wrong for my body.

I eventually decided to transition to male, so I don't know how I could comment for the long term.

But I have thought about this a lot - what if, for whatever reason, I couldn't transition? What would the rest of my life as female look like? I can remember the last 4 years of living as female particularly well, because that's when my coping mechanisms were extremely obvious. I was able to live as female as long as I was continuously on guard with regards to the persona I created. I really clung to my anger and my hostility, and frequently made myself seem off-putting to others. I think I did that because I didn't want anyone to ever question me or question the face I put forward. I never, under any circumstances, wanted anyone to think I gave a s*.

So would it have been healthy to accept that as my gender and live out my life that way? Probably not, I imagine my disagreeableness would have gotten me seriously hurt, for one. For another, holding on to that kind of anger and resentment on a regular basis is just not healthy at all. I would have been functional...I'm sure I could have been successful, had (non-sexual) relationships, etc, but I don't think you could have called me someone who was healthy or happy, no.

I can't see how it can be healthy to choose to remain severely discomfited by dysphoria.  It may be a question of the degree of dysphoria and may be influenced or governed by circumstance, but for me, some form of transition, non binary or binary seems inevitable and indeed absolutely necessary.  Some folk may be able to live in a high state of distress and discomfort.  It is not something that I could sustain, although I did try to do this for a very long time.  Survival is a primary driver.  Transition and change were a path I needed to take.  The other option took me to a place I could not countenance. 

Aisla

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 05, 2014, 10:13:20 PM
All I can say is pre transition:
Blood pressure 180/112
Pulse 118
Blood sugar >400
...
After 10 months of transition and HRT:
Blood pressure 118/76
Pulse <86
Blood sugar <140
...

Well, I don't see "weight" in there, anywhere. Are you sure it didn't have something to do with losing weight?

Quote from: SciNerdGirl on July 06, 2014, 04:24:16 AM
I have a couple of things to say on this issue.

First, I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  Gender is not a choice, but transition IS a choice!  Each individual can choose how to live their lives, and are free to decide whether or not to transition regardless of their missmatch between their biology and gender identity.

Of course! If there wasn't freedom of choice, no one would ever be able to choose to transition, or not transition!

For some of us the choice to transition would be catastrophic to our lives.  While it is true that choosing to live our lives based on our biology rather than our gender identity can cause significant discomfort, the complete destruction of a comfortable life that has taken decades to make, and one where other people are also dependent on us, would cause much much more discomfort than not transitioning.

I'd bet a lot of people can relate to this, and I've seen them post to this site many times. Being heavily invested in a family seems to be the primary motivator.

Also, you need to be extremely careful when comparing quantitative things like blood pressure before and after transition since the primary anti-androgen (spiro) is basically blood pressure medication. 

Yes, and not including spiro or any other metabolic-altering medication would skew the comparisons - anyone would know that.


Just my $0.02

J.

More than that - much more!

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 06, 2014, 05:50:17 AM

I do not appreciate this judgment leveled at this community. Do you honestly think we would transition if there was any other way around it? Transition is not a choice to the majority of our members here.

--------

Obviously your Dysphoria is mild and I am very happy for you on that. Not everyone has the luxury of not transitioning though. Please do not judge those that do.

Goodness No!! My comments were not meant to be hurtful or judgemental.  If my statemens were taken that way, I am truely sorry. 

You obviously did not choose to be transgendered.  I am certain that is just how you are (and how I am for that matter). I am merely saying that you have chosen to transition.  You have made a choice to come out to you family, undergo medical intervention and make your biology match your true gender.  That was obviously the right choice for you.  I'm sure you are happier and healthier because of it.  But it was a choice!!

What is the alternative? Suicide.  I hear that word a lot around here, and from a purely practical point of view (and please, please, please do not take this the wrong way) that is a choice too.  And it is ALWAYS a bad choice.  So if someone is left with a choice between transition and suicide, I beg you to choose transition.  No one should ever judge someone for choosing to transition when the only alternative is death.  I certainly am not!

However, if the choice is between the difficult life of transitioning, and the difficult life of not transitioning. Don't you dare judge me for choosing the later.

I am a transgendered woman who chooses not to transition.  What does that mean for me:

You say that my dysphoria is obviously mild. Who are you to judge that!!!

-I think about suicide every day
-I drink way too much and have acquired a taste for narcotic pain killers
-I have high blood pressure
-I am on medication for anxiety and depression
-I have spent most of my adult life hating myself
-The only time that I am truely happy is when I am dressed as a girl in private

That doesn't sound very mild to me.  In truth, it is pretty darned rough.

But, I also have a high paying job in a very conservative company, which would disappear if I decided to transition.  I have a wife and son who I love very much, and more importantly are completely dependent on me financially.  The truth is it would be better for them if I died in an accident (I have a lot of life insurance) than if I were to transition.  I pray for that accident every day. 

So please do not take my comments as judgement, and please do not judge me for the choice that I have made.

J.

Janet

Is there anything that you could or might do to make your life more bearable or is there a fear that anything that that you may try would lead you into an untenable situation or crisis?

Do you speak with a gender therapist or are you carrying this burden alone?  Have you considered even slightly altering your grooming or presentation outside of work as it could help provide some relief?  Alternatively, would joining a support group or speaking to an endo re therapy such as low dose hrt be something which you would consider - it shut down my dysphoria and gave me the quiet I needed to understand my identity, my options and my choices? 

Many of us in the non binary forum wrestle with fluidity or an identity which does completely match our  birth gender so there could be other approaches that may also work.  Another thought may involve a longer term determination and plan  to change profession, company or location which may lead to a more trans friendly and less oppressive situation.

I do not believe that anyone of us can truly understand another's situation.  We may think that our narratives are similar or that a narrative is familiar but until you have walked in their shoes, with their history, their relationships, their socialisation etc., until you are them it is indeed impossible.

I felt desperate, broken and defective for most of my life.  Fortunately I got to a point of desperation at a time and in a place where I could find solutions and support.  It hasn't been easy, even as a non binary.  Changes may cue others but if gradual and you understand yourself and can share this with key partners or friends there is hope and there is a much better life.

The folk you obviously care so much about would be devastated if they knew the road on which you are traveling.  A human life, your human life is precious.  I truly hope that you can find a better way forward without the use of alcohol or medication.  If you can't find local help or support, PM me any time if you need to talk.  You should not feel alone or be dealing with this by yourself.

Be safe and travel well

Aisla

Suziack

I understand your POV and indeed it is valid.  How any of us live our life always involves choices.  However for many our choice is clear, the other choice is untenable.  Some can deal with enormous stress and dysphoria, others cannot.  Others can access support and therapy that provide enough support so that they are comfortable with their current situation.  Others need non binary transition and there are many for whom a binary choice is the right choice for them.

Our lives are precious.  We are the author.  Conscious, kind and respectful choices informed by experts, therapists, teachers, guides and self will help us make the best decisions for us.  Smaller steps may help but for others a significant step may be the best approach.

For each of us we select our path and we experience the consequence, both good and bad.  Yes it impacts others but we are empowered and able to make the best choice and to live with and to celebrate our growth and authenticity.

Safe travels

Aisla