Susan's Place Transgender Resources

wondering if being attractive is just too important for your decision to transition and be happy. For example , with absolutely no disrespect to the memory of the great Janis Joplin, She by some standards was not attractive. do you think attractiveness is just too big an obstacle to over come for transition

i dont think being attractive is important but if i say that i'll be a hypocrite. i care about looks, maybe to the point of obsession. i want to be noticed and being ignored just makes me feel worthless. idk, blame it on a tragic past

Well my main problem is people always assuming I'm trying to look sexy when I'm not, and I'm really just trying to hide my flaws. I'm tired of being a spectacle, EVERYONE I talk to comments on my appearance, which is the worst thing ever when I'm so unsure of how I really want to present and I just want to relax about it for once. But everyone treats it like today is the day I marked on my calendar to go all out and wear some particular outfit. But, obviously I haven't been happy in transition anyway so.  :-X

Hell, I'm not exactly young nor pretty, but this is infinitely better than being depressed, slowly going nuts or being six feet under.

People tell me that my features are "striking," that I really have pretty features that stand out.

I hate it.

I never know whether people are staring at me because they're clocking me as trans, or because they're just looking at the tall "striking" woman. I've heard both from different people, and it's kind of one giant mindf***.

I frankly wish I looked plainer. I'd rather be a boring unattractive plain-looking woman who can slip under the radar and be ignored than someone who stands out.

Quote from: Jill F on July 09, 2014, 02:22:48 PM
Hell, I'm not exactly young nor pretty, but this is infinitely better than being depressed, slowly going nuts or being six feet under.

This.

And although I take terrible photos, I am kinda cute in person :) I will never be a bombshell, but as long as Mr. Right likes what he sees, and I am happy witb what I see in the mirror....well, good enough.

My main motivation was and still is that I'm not willing to ever return to "male role-playing" which I did before. I was fairly fine during my pre-HRT and early-HRT girl mode. The stress and anxiety was kept in check because I felt great of just acting as a woman although I didn't really look like one.

Still I think Mother Nature has an odd sense of irony. Being semi-blind I didn't really care whether I'll be pretty, beautiful and such. And what I got in slightly over two months on estrogens... I take it as a bonus that makes the whole thing so much easier. I actually expected such result would come in like a year or two.

Quote from: stephaniec on July 09, 2014, 01:58:07 PM
wondering if being attractive is just too important for your decision to transition and be happy. For example , with absolutely no disrespect to the memory of the great Janis Joplin, She by some standards was not attractive. do you think attractiveness is just too big an obstacle to over come for transition

Don't let your ideas of attractiveness decide on what you do. I see plenty of unattractive people all the time, and Janis Joplin, her attitude, friendliness and smile not to mention her voice cancelled out the looks portion. Looks aren't near as important to some if not most people as personality.

Quote from: Jess42 on July 09, 2014, 02:51:09 PM
Don't let your ideas of attractiveness decide on what you do. I see plenty of unattractive people all the time, and Janis Joplin, her attitude, friendliness and smile not to mention her voice cancelled out the looks portion. Looks aren't near as important to some if not most people as personality.

So true.  Looks may fade, but a winning personality is forever.

Quote from: Jill F on July 09, 2014, 03:08:23 PM
So true.  Looks may fade, but a winning personality is forever.

When Stepahnie mentioned Janis Joplin it just brought back a memeory of watching her in an interview on youtube and seemed like on of the most genuine fun loving people always quick to smile and laugh which really added so much more than if she was an inarticulated classic beauty of the time.

Quote from: Jess42 on July 09, 2014, 03:13:08 PM
When Stepahnie mentioned Janis Joplin it just brought back a memeory of watching her in an interview on youtube and seemed like on of the most genuine fun loving people always quick to smile and laugh which really added so much more than if she was an inarticulated classic beauty of the time.

talk about beauty just listen to Janis sing ball and chain at the Monterey pop music festival on youtube

Being attractive is only a small piece of the puzzle for me. I am only concerned about being attractive insofar as it might affect my ability to have a meaningful romantic relationship with another human being at some unspecified point in the future. Beyond that, I just want to be passable for the sake of blending in and not feel conspicuous everywhere I go.  :-\

Attractivity is not the main goal, but for me a important thing in transition. Beeing attractive brings new quality in living. I'm really a victim of fashion, shoes and such things. That are all things i couldnt be live as a male and i love these things. Ive so much other hobbies, but i love it. Thats part of my life and thats "me". Ive to hide it 20 years!!

But all these makes no sense if you arent attractive. So much women in the world spend a lot of money to be attractive. For women attractivity is a important part. I dont want to speak for all, but for some (and me) its an important thing. For (aged) transgender "(un)attractivity" is often a especially hard hit.

On the other hand the nature has it reason for this behavior - women wants to get a man - thats our nature and men wants attractive women. I think our hightech-society with all its social possibilties and covers up these human foundations.

No I won'tbe happy if I can't look like Sofia Vergara u_u AHAHAHHA jk (but it would be so cool to be her)

but seriously I didn't even start HRT and as right now I'll be happy just to start asap LOL

I know that I am ugly, I dress like a frump and I don't bother with make-up.

I'm fine with that.

I know plenty of cisgirls who range from conventionally pretty to drop-dead gorgeous who do not exactly enjoy the extra attention they get from creepy guys.   Apparently it gets really old really fast, and they have to go into "raging b*tch" mode much more often than they'd prefer to.

Be careful what you wish for, ladies.  You just might get it.

I'm a teenager and I'm self-centered and shallow and I want to be absolutely gorgeous and stunning. I'd transition even if I didn't look extremely gorgeous, but part of what makes the idea of transitioning so alluring is the fact that it would be that much more impressive and fulfilling to be beautiful afterwards. I'd like to re-assure transwomen my age that beauty can be found in transitioning.

Also, beauty has always given me power. When I settle down with a husband, I'll find value in other things such as family rather than my appearance. Of course, I'll always try to look as good as I possibly can, but eventually it may come to the point that it's not my main source of validation.

Some guys are disgusting pigs, and I get homophobic insults thrown at me now, so I can't imagine being hit on is much worse. It validates me now. I want to feed off their obsession with me.

I can certainly proceed with transition, but my appearance does give me a good deal of frustration....But, I am basically a 28 year old 15 year old girl, so wouldn't it be weird if I wasn't insecure and neurotic about how I look?

My mentality is, while I might not be much to look at now, I am going to keep putting fourth effort into my appearance until I think the compliments I get aren't just to make me feel better about myself, but express genuine opinions about how I look.

I wouldn't trade my masculinity and birth right of male privilege if I knew I wasn't going to be hitting at least a 7 on a 10 point scale.

(In fact I wouldn't trade going through laser for that matter!)

Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 09, 2014, 02:34:16 PM
People tell me that my features are "striking," that I really have pretty features that stand out.

I hate it.

I never know whether people are staring at me because they're clocking me as trans, or because they're just looking at the tall "striking" woman. I've heard both from different people, and it's kind of one giant mindf***.

I frankly wish I looked plainer. I'd rather be a boring unattractive plain-looking woman who can slip under the radar and be ignored than someone who stands out.

I agree with not knowing if people are looking at me cause I look good or cause they are tryin to figure out if I'm a guy or girl and clocking me. I get all weird when I find people looking at me for that reason, cause I start thinking, oo ->-bleeped-<- they know I was born female

Quote from: Ryan55 on July 09, 2014, 07:44:44 PM
I agree with not knowing if people are looking at me cause I look good or cause they are tryin to figure out if I'm a guy or girl and clocking me. I get all weird when I find people looking at me for that reason, cause I start thinking, oo ->-bleeped-<- they know I was born female

It's definitely a bummer to have one of those I think they know melt downs in a crowded place.

It's an interesting question, before I started my transition I could not care less about my look and I thought about my body more as something to walk my brain from one place to the next, as a consequence I didn't take very good care of myself. I think this was partially due to not really caring that much if I lived or died, not really suicidal since my teenage years but never afraid of taking risks.

After I started my transition I started taking pride in my body and taking care of it, when I came out to some of my gay friends as trans they somehow felt like they could share what they thought I looked like before and how they were sad since they thought I was good looking, I wasn't exactly sure what to say to that and since then I've had gay men try to persuade me that I'd be a much better looking boy, still not sure how to respond to those comments but what I do know is that I don't really care what I looked like before.

Today I like to look pretty and go out on the weekends, for work I dress more plainly and wear way less make-up both because I can't be bothered with the full routine and because it's a professional setting.

I realize the following might sound a bit shallow but I'm being as honest as I can with myself and others. I don't think being pretty is required for me but I like to present myself as well as I can and I like it when other people find me attractive.

If presented with the choice of transitioning without any hope of passing or having a look that would get me clocked most of the time I'm not sure what I would do, on the one hand It's not like I was happy with my life so almost anything would be an improvement but on the other hand the potential pain to family/friends combined with the difficulties we face in every day life would have at left me contemplating. 

To sum up I want to be pretty and I'll do what I can to make it happen, this means it's important to me but I can definitely live without it like I did for 34 years.

Been putting off transition since my early 20s as i felt unpassable due to my height, weight, facial features etc.

Been on low dose HRT and electrolysis for 1.5 yrs now, slowly waiting for more improvement while contemplating full transition. Slowly dipping my toes into waters rather taking a plunge.

LOL... I think I'm going to be a Victoria's Secret Model... NOT!!!  ::)

I've never considered myself to be attractive so it's not really an issue to me, I just wan't to feel comfortable in my own skin

Quote from: Chic on July 09, 2014, 06:48:19 PM
I'm a teenager and I'm self-centered and shallow and I want to be absolutely gorgeous and stunning. I'd transition even if I didn't look extremely gorgeous, but part of what makes the idea of transitioning so alluring is the fact that it would be that much more impressive and fulfilling to be beautiful afterwards. I'd like to re-assure transwomen my age that beauty can be found in transitioning.

Also, beauty has always given me power. When I settle down with a husband, I'll find value in other things such as family rather than my appearance. Of course, I'll always try to look as good as I possibly can, but eventually it may come to the point that it's not my main source of validation.

Some guys are disgusting pigs, and I get homophobic insults thrown at me now, so I can't imagine being hit on is much worse. It validates me now. I want to feed off their obsession with me.

I second this and I kind feel the same, beside the fact that I don't like guys :3

Growing up as male I never considered myself attractive (but honestly I have no idea if I actually was or not) I assumed I was somewhere below a 5 on the 10 point scale and I didn't think farther than that.
When I decided to transition I figured I might actually have a decent chance of being attractive as a female, but that isn't why I chose to transition.
As I've never considered myself attractive it really doesn't matter how I turn out as long as I am healthy (not anorexic, obese, etc)
I feel like being attractive would be a big plus for me, at least because it would make life as a female so much different than the life I lead before.

Attractiveness is really my main goal, as shallow as it may seem
I just want to achieve the look I've desired my whole life

Hmmmm

I'll say this, If I didn't look the way I did pre transition I might have thought twice before I proceeded. It's kinda like testing a theory. I think being attractive helps that's just a fact cis or trans. I can say being attractive & passable factored a LOT in my decision. And even after that I still wasn't sure I could do it, but it helped so thanks Mom & Granny for the looks!!!

I just couldn't handle being mis gendered in addition to or because of being unattractive after all that hard work. I just don't see the point in setting yourself up.

Having said that, Not being conventionally attractive doesn't mean you can't pass or be happy. There are all kinds of women who aren't much to look at physically, but at the and of the day they are still women. I think it's important to weigh the pros and cons before transitioning no matter the level of physical beauty, Then find your medium so you can be happy.

I never let it faze me. I'm gorgeous compared to 'he who pretended to be me'.
And having an ego the size of the Universe helps as well ::) ::) :laugh:

Well looks are very important to me and I think I would not have started transition if I was taller or more manly looking.. No offence to the people that are.. :(
I was attractive as a gay guy.. at least thats what Ive been told.. Nowdays I really want to just blend in and be normal girl but everywhere I go people always comment about my hair, eyes and tell me that Im pretty.. Then theres some who just stare.. Its all so confusing.. after all I just want to be cute and normal.. Not a spectacle..

For beautiful eyes, look for the good in others; for beautiful lips, speak only words of kindness; and for poise, walk with the knowledge that you are never alone.

Audrey Hepburn

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbreathandsound.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F11%2F531064_10151164663412903_142260870_n.jpg&hash=07e560e07ee16e9a4a6c74327faff30555a2ceb5)

Quote from: Evelyn K on July 09, 2014, 07:34:02 PM
I wouldn't trade my masculinity and birth right of male privilege if I knew I wasn't going to be hitting at least a 7 on a 10 point scale.

(In fact I wouldn't trade going through laser for that matter!)

This is basically how i feel too, but it sets me up for dysphoria/depression if I get clocked. I have decided to get FFS, mostly just for my own confidence.

I would love to be attractive!

I transition because I have to for my own mental well being. I wish I could have weighed the pros and cons from being attractive when I made the decision.  If had that that kind of latitude then continuing to be a guy is surely a much easier way to live your life, attractive or no. 

Quote from: kitty on July 10, 2014, 12:50:57 AM
Attractiveness is really my main goal, as shallow as it may seem
I just want to achieve the look I've desired my whole life

To be fair I just think the very same. Anyway, a bad outcome wouldn't prevent me from transitioning.

No Marilyn Monroe here GF's. It's not easy for me & it seems I'm always trying for my entire life to look more feminine & nicer, as with my recent facelift. My face is much nicer however I'm no beauty & never will be I guess. For me all I can do it try to look & feel better. I'm attractive so maybe I should be more happy with life.

Quote from: stephaniec on July 09, 2014, 03:24:27 PM
talk about beauty just listen to Janis sing ball and chain at the Monterey pop music festival on youtube

Anything Janis Joplin ever sang just blows me away. She had soul. I remember the "country beauty queen" Faith Hill remake Piece of my Heart and it almost brought me to tears and not the good kind either. Janis Joplin sang it with heart and soul and Faith Hill sang it and I couldn't feel any real emotion behind it.

I was told I was attractive when I looked like a guy, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be carrying over as I transition.  I'm not too beat up over it, but then again....who doesn't want to be attractive?  So that's where makeup comes in.  ;D

So maybe I should just print Angelina Jolie's face on a paper bag that I wear over my head?

What an interesting question. I spent most of my life as a male believing I was ugly. It wasn't until I took an interest in acting a few years ago and had some headshots done that I realized that I was attractive...well...beautiful actually.

Now that I'm transitioning I admit that yes I hope that I'm beautiful as a female but if someone guarenteed me that I'd be ugly I'd still transition. Just coming to the realization that I'm female has greatly improved my quality of life beyond measure and my love for myself is growing by leaps and bounds. This to me is more precious than anything else.

In my eyes, I was unattractive before transition, I am unattractive now so I guess it is something I am used to dealing with. My wife and others see me differently. Bless.  Next problem.....

Quote from: Jill F on July 10, 2014, 12:43:51 PM
So maybe I should just print Angelina Jolie's face on a paper bag that I wear over my head?

That...would be really interesting to see.  Moreso I'd want to see peoples reaction.   :laugh:

This topic immediately made me think of someone that came to me recently in some PMs, she's having a really hard time transitioning, keeps saying how ugly she is, but she's not, but no matter what I say to her, its not getting through. I feel bad, things didn't turn out the way she envisioned them to, and now, she's totally crushed to defeat. Always ever comparing herself to others more fortunate, beautiful women like me (this coming from her mouth; I'm hearing this all too much, its not my fault, should I slash my face up or something so you can feel better about yourself) and some others on here that have reason to be happy, that pretty girls have it all and ugly ones are just ugly and suffer miserable lives. She doesn't think she looks feminine at all, my mom when I showed her thinks she looks very much like a woman (my mom gives it straight, no sugar coating ever, she can be a bit harsh sometimes with me), not super gorgeous but fine, plain, but pretty (nice lips and eyes), and I know if she'd stop hating herself so much there'd be plenty of guys (if that's what she's into) that would love to have a chance with her. But her envy of others on here is too strong, she only sees the external beauty of others, compares to her critical thinking of seeing herself in the mirror, seeing only masculine flaws and an ugly face, but the real ugly is inside. After a bit, I feel bad, but I gave up on her, didn't know what else to say. But as she said, words aren't enough, results are, and according to her, it wasn't happening.

Before I went into all this transition stuff I spent years thinking about it, planning out different scenarios in my mind, every possible outcome that I could think of and how best I'd handle it. I remember wanting to rush into it, glad it didn't happen that way, I needed time to prepare me for the changes that would develop in my life once I took full flight into living as a woman. I never thought myself a really handsome guy when I was portraying a man, but I wasn't ugly, just average, skinny, super oily skin, zits all over my face, and just felt awkward about myself. I look back now though and one thing that does hit me, I always had a nice smile, and its that same smile I still wear, I just wear it more comfortably now, happy to be me, not just a temporary result of a brief moment. I had no real idea of what I'd look like as a woman, but I did explore a realistic view with my imagination, always looking at my features, bone structure, muscles, and where would the fat go on me once on the hormones. I turned out pretty close to what I expected, but while I didn't change all that much, I can admit that I turned out prettier than I thought (this only on my good days when I'm feeling most feminine on the inside, feel masculine then I'm going to see myself that way too). But see, that's it, I didn't expect much, mostly when I wanted this I just wanted to get rid of that awful feeling inside of me, feeling like I was trapped, the hormones did that, the physical results were just a bonus (though more would be better, but that'll have to come in time, I can exercise to slim my waist to give more curves, the rest will come with surgery). Though once on them and starting to see the changes, of coarse I desired for even better results, who wouldn't. I am pretty, this I can admit (now that I'm back on the hormones, I hated myself when I was off of them, that was the male mind creeping back in), but if I wasn't, I'd still had done it. The transitioning was necessary for me to be able to love myself and I'm talking on the inside. The pretty looks are my own, just as for another would be theirs, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what is pretty for one may not be for someone else, someone who thinks themselves ugly may actually have someone out there that thinks otherwise about them.

For those that are having trouble with themselves, don't get wrapped up in someone else's looks, focus on yourself, you are as beautiful as you choose to be, spend all your days envious of others, always wishing you could look like them, or have their lives, that is when you become ugly.

There's a difference between being passable and being attractive.  You don't have to be attractive in order to pass, mainly because most cispeople, male and female, aren't particularly attractive.  But they still "pass".

Being attractive is important to some people--and I must confess I'm one of them.  But the real test is what kind of vibes you put out, and that doesn't depend on your face alone.  When I was bit by bit making the decision to come out of the closet, the question of how attractive I might be never entered my mind.  I would have been satisfied with looking acceptable.

I would be very happy as long as I passed as female.  I don't have to be pretty, but I would love it if I looked 'average' at least. 

I want to be as gorgeous as possible. :-* And why not? I think I look great with makeup on. If not for brow bossing and a nose bigger than I'd like, I would be passible. When I tell people I'm out to, like doctors and therapists, they usually mention how I don't need FFS when I mention that's my goal. Ultimately, I would not be happy if I did not make myself as attractive as I could be.

@Megan

I understand that a forum like these is no place to discuss beauty, we go more into passing. And yes, i'm passing outside and people only see a women (like your mom). Goal achieved? Yes? Not for me ...

What is wrong with wanna be a bit attractive? Wants to be passable is a virtue, wants to be attractive is deadly sin? Why? Whats wrong with it? I mean its not a thing from modern times that women wants to be attractive. It is thousands of years old. I dont want to be model or someone super gorgeous, but a little attractivity would be nice.

For me my result is a heavy setback. Looking at my old male pictures there would be possible much more. And sure, would i be pretty (like you) and has not these problems i may dont understand persons like me too.

I see nothing at all wrong with wanting to be attractive Galaxy....I want to pass, but I also want to be attractive. I also am not going to give up working towards that until I am at least somewhat attractive in my own eyes. It is only human to want to be attractive.

Yes, its human  :'( :'( :'(

For me, it is important, but not the main thing. I wouldn't say "attractive", just look nice or plain. I certainly would feel very disappointed if I turned out to be really ugly, because I don't consider myself ugly at all at the moment.

But, if that turned out to be truth, I would have to live with it, since it was my choice to get on HRT after all.

My take on this is if you were considered to be attractive before transition, then you probably wouldn't be happy being unattractive after transition; however, if you were unattractive before, and unattractive after transition you would already be used to it, and it probably wouldn't be as bad as the first example.

Karen

Quote from: missymay on July 10, 2014, 04:45:31 PM
My take on this is if you were considered to be attractive before transition, then you probably wouldn't be happy being unattractive after transition; however, if you were unattractive before, and unattractive after transition you would already be used to it, and it probably wouldn't be as bad as the first example.

Karen

I think this is an important idea. I personally would love to be a nuclear bomb like Sofia Loren , but I know that's not going to happen . also being on an extremely limited budget I have to be satisfied with how I look. My take on this whole issue is my brain is female , my chromosomes screwed up an stuck me with testosterone and through the wonders of modern science my brain finally got what it needed and I'm a happy camper.

Yes, I'd like to be attractive.

I'd also like to be rich...but I'm not, and life is too short to be unhappy about things that will ultimately be gone anyway.

Wanting to be beautiful doesn't make you shallow or your reasons for transitioning petty. It's just natural for a woman to want to be attractive. It's a testament to how feminine we are and see ourselves that we want to be gorgeous when transitioning.

Quote from: Chic on July 10, 2014, 06:52:08 PM
Wanting to be beautiful doesn't make you shallow or your reasons for transitioning petty. It's just natural for a woman to want to be attractive. It's a testament to how feminine we are and see ourselves that we want to be gorgeous when transitioning.

I agree, and also it is nice to have something to strive towards. I don't care how ugly I am, I don't see a reason to give up trying to be attractive. Then again, I thought Don Quixote was much more interesting than the normal people of La Mancha.

Quote from: Chic on July 10, 2014, 06:52:08 PM
Wanting to be beautiful doesn't make you shallow or your reasons for transitioning petty. It's just natural for a woman to want to be attractive. It's a testament to how feminine we are and see ourselves that we want to be gorgeous when transitioning.

I think the problem is that if your expectations don't match reality , do you de-transition or forge ahead. I used to fantasize of being a beautiful runway model or like yesterday in my coffee place I saw two tall very slender women with great expensive dresses on and my head just burst into flames wishing  that was me, but I know it's not in the cards and that I have to be happy with my own reality.

Something about transitioning seems to make us blind - look around you hon and you will see all types of women. Many who may be considered 'unattractive'. But they have to live their lives anyway. Why miss out on being happy just because things aren't 100% perfection? If you're a woman, you're a woman regardless.

I think the best way to approach the natural desire everyone has to look good, is just to do your best, make what improvements you can/want. But after getting dressed and ready for the day to set it aside. And not obsess over it. Do what you can with what you have and then let it go. Probably the only way to stay sane as a woman or man who wants to look good. Hang in there sweetie, yes it is worth it to be yourself. You're more than a wrapper.

Quote from: stephaniec on July 10, 2014, 07:49:57 PM
I think the problem is that if your expectations don't match reality , do you de-transition or forge ahead. I used to fantasize of being a beautiful runway model or like yesterday in my coffee place I saw two tall very slender women with great expensive dresses on and my head just burst into flames wishing  that was me, but I know it's not in the cards and that I have to be happy with my own reality.

I guess the question there would be whether or not you're happier as a woman even while not looking like them. :)

Quote from: sad panda on July 10, 2014, 08:20:15 PM
I guess the question there would be whether or not you're happier as a woman even while not looking like them. :)

It's a tough question . I'm lucky I can look like a woman in a dress and make up , maybe even minimal make up so personally I'm all right about transition , but I don't know how I would take it if I just was more male looking than female. I don't know whether I/d just give up and be male , but if the hormones helped with my depression I'd keep taking them even if I still looked masculine.

Quote from: stephaniec on July 10, 2014, 08:32:04 PM
It's a tough question . I'm lucky I can look like a woman in a dress and make up , maybe even minimal make up so personally I'm all right about transition , but I don't know how I would take it if I just was more male looking than female. I don't know whether I/d just give up and be male , but if the hormones helped with my depression I'd keep taking them even if I still looked masculine.

Wait I can't remember, are you on HRT? If so then has it helped you so far? And if so then at least there's that. Transitioning definitely involves a LOT of pros and cons. The cons are too much for me personally, but then for some people it is worth it!

Quote from: sad panda on July 10, 2014, 08:37:57 PM
Wait I can't remember, are you on HRT? If so then has it helped you so far? And if so then at least there's that. Transitioning definitely involves a LOT of pros and cons. The cons are too much for me personally, but then for some people it is worth it!

I'm on my 9th month of HRT. mentally it's pulled me from standing on the roof of my apartment building to really being able to have a future. I can only glimpse of how my face has changed. I can see definite development in my breasts and I love going in public dressed up. I still get confused about what I'm doing . but I just started so I'm taking a day at a time and seeing where it goes. I know I want to look totally female , but I don't know how far the changes will go. I just have wanted to do this since childhood so I'm giving it a go.I personally never have felt male . it just my outside was abnormal

Quote from: stephaniec on July 10, 2014, 08:50:14 PM
I'm on my 9th month of HRT. mentally it's pulled me from standing on the roof of my apartment building to really being able to have a future. I can only glimpse of how my face has changed. I can see definite development in my breasts and I love going in public dressed up. I still get confused about what I'm doing . but I just started so I'm taking a day at a time and seeing where it goes. I know I want to look totally female , but I don't know how far the changes will go. I just have wanted to do this since childhood so I'm giving it a go.I personally never have felt male . it just my outside was abnormal

Hmm, well, beyond everything else, attractive or not, isn't your first line what's most important here! :)

As for the other things, 9 months is not enough to be able to tell! :3

Quote from: sad panda on July 10, 2014, 08:52:21 PM
Hmm, well, beyond everything else, attractive or not, isn't your first line what's most important here! :)

As for the other things, 9 months is not enough to be able to tell! :3

yes, because the doors to hell were opening

I physically and socially transitioned because I'm a woman. I had hopes that I'd be an attractive woman, but was also realistic enough to accept that it might not happen and that the best I could hope for might be average - this is not a concept that put me off at all..

In the end, I've ended up looking quite masculine. And you know what? It doesn't much matter to me. I'm perceived as a woman.. I interact with the world as a woman. I live as a woman.. Which was kinda the point of transition..

Quote from: kelly_aus on July 10, 2014, 09:54:34 PM
I physically and socially transitioned because I'm a woman. I had hopes that I'd be an attractive woman, but was also realistic enough to accept that it might not happen and that the best I could hope for might be average - this is not a concept that put me off at all..

In the end, I've ended up looking quite masculine. And you know what? It doesn't much matter to me. I'm perceived as a woman.. I interact with the world as a woman. I live as a woman.. Which was kinda the point of transition..

sounds good

I'm not going to lie, I struggle with this question everyday.  Going from a fairly good looking man to an ugly woman scares the crap out of me.  I know it is awful, and I feel awful and shallow giving it so much weight, but I do.  I mean what does that say about what I value, and how I look at people?  It is not good.  This whole process has made me discover some very unflattering things about myself that I never knew.  I know I am going to have to get past it if I am ever going to be happy, but  the uncertainty allows me to keep things on hold and stay "safe".  I wish there was some way I could see what is possible or likely for me.  Don't get me wrong, I don't expect to be hot or even beautiful.  I am just scared to give up what I have and worried i don't have the strength to deal with what may be the results.  It is such a gamble, and I am so in awe of all of you that took the leap for yourselves.  You are much better and stronger women than I am.

For me being attractive or unattractive had no bearing on my decision to transition. That being said I cannot deny that I do at sometimes wish I was beautiful and have been envious of some of the women here. I have always felt I am ugly ever since I was a kid so made up for it by being really funny and silly at times and I find people want to be around me because of that.

Maybe some additional words from me: I only can search after german content - its easier for me. So i really searched after f.e. content of forums about the topic "ugly girls or women" ... the result is the same as here and everywhere. Ugly people suffer. It doesnt matters if women are trans or cis. If your ugly, for whatever reason, you feel pain and refusal. I read some stories about ugly girls in the web and it so sad. They have no boyfriends, no sex ... other people talk about them, companys prefer attractive people for their jobs. Its a really, really wide array of situation where ugly people have drawbacks.

Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

Quote from: galaxy on July 11, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Maybe some additional words from me: I only can search after german content - its easier for me. So i really searched after f.e. content of forums about the topic "ugly girls or women" ... the result is the same as here and everywhere. Ugly people suffer. It doesnt matters if women are trans or cis. If your ugly, for whatever reason, you feel pain and refusal. I read some stories about ugly girls in the web and it so sad. They have no boyfriends, no sex ... other people talk about them, companys prefer attractive people for their jobs. Its a really, really wide array of situation where ugly people have drawbacks.

Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

I think its just our situation of being human. some attractive people look down on others , some rich laugh at the poor , others make racial comments or worse, others make fun of the overweight on and on. you just need to find your own best possible outcome  and go for it. the path of least resistance. Life is so incredibly short , but can be overwhelmingly  beautiful .I think like I did I just came to the realization that this is it and choose the best possible path and just do it. you fail, just pick yourself up and try another path. My life is mine and no one else's

Quote from: galaxy on July 11, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Maybe some additional words from me: I only can search after german content - its easier for me. So i really searched after f.e. content of forums about the topic "ugly girls or women" ... the result is the same as here and everywhere. Ugly people suffer. It doesnt matters if women are trans or cis. If your ugly, for whatever reason, you feel pain and refusal. I read some stories about ugly girls in the web and it so sad. They have no boyfriends, no sex ... other people talk about them, companys prefer attractive people for their jobs. Its a really, really wide array of situation where ugly people have drawbacks.

Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

I have to agree, it is pretty strongly cross cultural that beauty is highly valued. I really wish it was true that only what is on the inside matters, but society isn't like that. If anything being attractive carries with it significant privilege. It isn't like someone who is ugly isn't valued by society, but they have to prove themselves more than those who are attractive.

I don't think the really attractive people understand just how much the quality of thier life is improved by being so. After all attractive people suffer from the same struggles as everyone so it is many times difficult to realize when it helps. Statistics clearly shows that people who are more attractive do better financially than thier less attractive peers, so even if it isn't apparent there does seem to be a demonstrate me advantage there.

I do whine about how unattractive I am, but the reality is as a guy I was middle of the pack and I am pretty sure that is where I am going to end up as female as well. I have seen plenty of people more and less attractive than me and the effects it seems to have.

Also Galaxy your English is great I didn't realize you were German at all. I took German for 3 years in school and I can't say anything much more complicated than "I need coffee" or "where am I?". I can't even remember past these conjugation, I remember it had something to do with adding Ge- in front of a word or something like that.

Seriously, what is attractiveness? What is everyone else's view of attractiveness? What is attractive?

Those three questions have answers that are as unique as every individual on this planet. Oh yeah physical beauty male or female definately gets my attention. If someone asked me what I though was attractive I don't think I can answer with any specifics. So someone has a little larger than average nose but has killer eyes and innocent smile. Someone has crooked teeth but the curve of their nose and long flowing hair. Look at Cindy Crawford. She has an in your face flaw on her face and she is still attractive. Sometimes less than perfect looks are way more attractive than perfect, no flaws at all looks. Take that girl that is a real life Barbie Doll that was on the internet and I think on youtube, she has flawless skin and looks perfect like a doll but I find I have no attraction to her looks at all. There are extremely physiclly beautiful people in the world with the personality or a rock and about a deep as a shallow rain puddle. And there are people out there that are less than classic beauties that have astounding personalities and not shallow at all and I usually find these people way more attractive. Arm candy is one thing, male or female, but compatable personalities is where the real attractiveness comes in.

Of course I would like to look like the perfect woman,  but realistically,  that will never happen, and I would rather be happy as a not so attractive woman, than unhappy,   a man...

Quote from: stephaniec on July 11, 2014, 09:49:37 AM
I think its just our situation of being human. some attractive people look down on others , some rich laugh at the poor , others make racial comments or worse, others make fun of the overweight on and on. you just need to find your own best possible outcome  and go for it. the path of least resistance. Life is so incredibly short , but can be overwhelmingly  beautiful .I think like I did I just came to the realization that this is it and choose the best possible path and just do it. you fail, just pick yourself up and try another path. My life is mine and no one else's

So inspired!

Quote from: galaxy on July 11, 2014, 09:20:50 AM
Its no easy life - you have to fight everyday. People who like you try to sugarcaot the things. Sure, they cant do anything and are helpless themselves. And things like "you must life your inside", "all that counts is you inside" is NOT true. Nobody can turn the inside out and appears as a attractive person!!! Your "avatar" is your outside and people perceive your outside and nothing more. I think attractive people downplay the sorrows of ugliness (they dont have that sorrows) but it doesnt help any person on this planet.

I'm a million miles away from prettiness and even when improving my appearance is one of my main goals in transition I think beauty isn't going to solve all our problems.

Feeling ugly on the outside is nothing compared to the ugliness felt on the inside when I know that everything on the outside is a lie. I feel that happiness has to be built from the inside out, and for me that requires being authentic to who I am.

Sure, I'm scared sometimes that I won't turn out very attractive. But those doubts aren't going to stop me from transitioning, I already know that there's no hope of being happy as long as I'm living a lie. All I can do is focus on being happy being true to my internal self and hopefully manage any insecurities that arise based on how the external world around me perceives me.

Quote from: Alaia on July 11, 2014, 12:33:23 PM
Feeling ugly on the outside is nothing compared to the ugliness felt on the inside when I know that everything on the outside is a lie. I feel that happiness has to be built from the inside out, and for me that requires being authentic to who I am.

Sure, I'm scared sometimes that I won't turn out very attractive. But those doubts aren't going to stop me from transitioning, I already know that there's no hope of being happy as long as I'm living a lie. All I can do is focus on being happy being true to my internal self and hopefully manage any insecurities that arise based on how the external world around me perceives me.

This for the most part sums up how I feel on the subject.^^___^^! With just a few exceptions:

As for me I never felt attractive before transitioning, and I don't feel that attractive now. But I do feel very feminine both inside and out. And to me that is what is important. I love wearing makeup and pretty jewelry, pretty clothes, etc., whether I'm attractive to others or not, whether anyone likes it or not. They make me feel feminine and great about myself.

Sure, others tell me I'm attractive, but for most of them I just think they're being nice. My transition is about my feeling good about myself both inside and out, about aligning my outside to match the woman I've always been inside. I'm no longer living a lie. So in answer to the question, an affirmative yes!, I would still transition even if I was guaranteed to look like The Wicked Witch of the West, in The Wizard of Oz - long ugly curved down drooping nose and all.

Ally :icon_flower:

Quote from: stephaniec on July 10, 2014, 08:56:32 PM
yes, because the doors to hell were opening

Hell ain't a bad place to be. From the infamous AC/DC. Lilith was supposedley beautiful , enough to temp Adam at least. So....

I used to say I'd rather be an ugly dude than an ugly girl any day of the week. Then I realized that being an ugly dude has it's own set of disadvantages, and I also realized that if I'm was gonna be ugly, I might as well be an ugly girl.

But there was a time when that word wasn't even in my vocabulary. It's such a part, and that's a shame, of the culture and of advertising from commercials and magazines that daily bombard us with images of Hollywood's "Beautiful people" that it is hard not to be influenced to some degree.

To tell you the truth, the most beautiful people I've met through my whole life were beautiful because they were beautiful on the inside, not the outside, while the ugliest people I've ever met, whether they were rich or poor, admired or not admired, were ugly purely because of what they were on the inside. Why an ugly person would be admired might seem like a contradiction, but it's very common to look at the package, without looking at the inside.

Each day that we live we are presented with many choices to be either beautiful people, or to be ugly people. You can actually count the opportunities that pass through the day, if you just try. I've done it, and sometimes I was ashamed of myself when I was selfish. Other times, I found that I had a reason to radiate with joy.

Quote from: Suziack on July 12, 2014, 10:42:02 PM
It's such a part, and that's a shame, of the culture and of advertising from commercials and magazines that daily bombard us with images of Hollywood's "Beautiful people" that it is hard not to be influenced to some degree.

Some of the Hollywood Royalty is just downright unattractive and some may even say ugly if it wasn't for the Hollywood majicians. give me a true Plain John or Plain Jane anyday over some moviestar. The only thing that would attract me is the money they make per movie. Sorry that really sound shallow. :embarrassed: But I ain't no angel unless some rich moviestar wants me to be ;) Again shollow I know.

It would be cool to be beautiful. I wish I was. In a lot of ways, you get what you put into it, and I don't really give it my all. Beauty is different from the need to transition, and my need was not hinging on my odds of beauty.

In fact, I am rather comforted by any lack of attention in public because it implies I am blending in and not so manly people stare, nor so beautiful. It makes me feel like a normal, 38 year old lady, which is still a thrill every single time.

I actually find myself astounded by how superficial many women and trans women can be, and yet I understand how it is part of the full experience. I confess, I get caught up in it from time to time so I am not holier than thou. I love dressing up for an occasional night on the town but with that comes more unwanted attention.

I think I can be content, but not satisfied. I'm really hoping I can eventually get rhinoplasty. My standards are way too high, but I think I'll manage.

I think i could. I mean looks are important to me, but as long as i am seen as female in the eyes of myself and other people i couldn't give a damn.

Though thankfully at this moment i am attractive. But it is kind of weird when you catch people staring at you a lot, after a while you kind of get used to it maybe? ( i hope) but before it made me so paranoid because i thought everyone could tell i was trans.

I'm okay with knowing that I'll never be pretty or attractive.  I won't lie, it does hurt a bit when I compare myself to other women, but I've accepted that beauty isn't in the cards for me.   However, passing and being accepted as female is neccessary to me.  That's something that I don't think I can ever feel okay with to be honest.  But looks and being attractive isn't neccessary even if it upsets me to know that I'm not considered good looking, especially considering that I'm a single transwoman and being trans means having people pick every aspect of your appearance apart when judging you.  It's just the way the world is like it or not.

I think it's an on-going, trans-separate issue for some of us. I know it is for me.

I have always struggled with accepting my appearance: lots of self-loathing, intense feelings of shame, inability to leave the house, torturous schemes to improve myself (starvation, primarily), dedication of all of my free money to improve my appearance, etc.

To me, the validity of my gender status is irrelevant. I'm likely always going to obsess over being attractive or not and will let it get me down until I'm satisfied. I have at many, many times throughout my life placed my entire value on the strength of my appearance, and let it limit me accordingly.

Er, not to encourage this sort of behavior or sound like I've just accepted this flaw of mine. I actively try to work with it and improve my mental state, but I recognize the problem for what it is -- and part of that is knowing that the issue is separate from my gender.

Final note: I know that the people in this thread don't inherently think that, if you transition and are unhappy that you're unattractive, it must mean that you don't value womanhood (or manhood) for what it is (a status that comes before beauty). However, it does bother me a bit that some people make that assumption. It's unfair and oversimplified. Even if you become unattractive as a result of transition, and you feel really uncomfortable with this, it doesn't necessarily mean that you feel uncomfortable with being a woman/man or having transitioned. It inherently only means that you feel uncomfortable with being unattractive.

Attractive and passing are entirely different to me.. If I can live my life without getting constant stares and finger pointing, then I'll be happy. 

I've actually been thinking about this recently since I got obviously clocked for the first time in a good while. Since HRT has had some time to do it's work I realized that some FFS is needed to make me passable. It's something I never really thought of before.

I know that I'm ugly and I'm okay with that. In fact, I think there are some advantages to not being judged only by your looks. Since I'm not rich, famous or talented as well I know people really like me for me. Not to say that I wouldn't like to be pretty, because I like to at least try and look as beautiful as I can. I'm fine as long as I don't look mutilated.

What matters the most to me is that I look like a woman. I don't care about my small breasts, because at least they're there. Nor my flat but, al long as it doesn't say male. I can't stand my face though, because I need to work real hard to not see the damage testosterone did. It makes me feel uncomfortable not being able to go get some groceries without worrying about how I look and what others might be thinking when they're watching me.

Not looking as feminine as I'd like and being unable to change that any time soon can really bring me down, but it sure beats the aimless life I was living before. Small things like being able to laugh more, live the way I want and feeling comfortable with the inside make it worth it for me. Looks are the icing on the cake and it's not more than natural to try and be as attractive as you can, because the icing is delicious.

Of course part of just being a woman is wanting to feel pretty. However for me this is just a part of being female and has no relevance to my need to transition.

Ally :icon_flower:

I'll start of by saying that situations in my personal life prevent me from being able to let myself transition using medical intervention. 

However  if I ever did, being able to feel pretty is extremely important to me.  The thing is if I could ever look like a real girl, I'm awfully certain that I would feel pretty.  In my eyes I'd say that about 90% of all the women I have ever known have a fundamental physical beauty that I would consider basically as "pretty" (regardless of what the media might say, or those women might think of themselves).  This includes most of the women I have seen pictures of in this site.  I think that I would be glowing with happiness if I could ever achieve that base level of beauty as a girl.

However, the truth is, that as a male, I basically resemble uncle Fester from the The Adams Family.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_4YFhK87NXPE%2FTSyCKNxqGsI%2FAAAAAAAAEPw%2F50PQML9CIH8%2Fs1600%2Funcle%2Bfester.JPG&hash=2d6f66c911ff8a9628849cb18d6060174eaa0fc5)

Whenever I dress up, I certainly feel feminine, but I don't think medical science has advanced enough to change my physical appearance into that of a woman I would be happy presenting to the world.  A girl can always dream though.

J.

So much of what makes a woman attractive is attitude, makeup, hair, and fashion...the overall presentation.

Take a look at the pictures of celebrities without makeup.  These are supposedly the most beautiful women in the world, but when they're not all done up they look very average at best.  My point is that as trans women we can take advantage of the same thing that makes them beautiful.

I'll never be classically beautiful, but I can definitely get to a certain level of actractiveness...even if it's only the clothes and makeup.

Quote from: stephaniec on July 09, 2014, 01:58:07 PM
wondering if being attractive is just too important for your decision to transition and be happy.

Two things:

1. The point of transition is first and foremost about being YOU.

2. I also think a key to transitioning successfully is having realistic expectations.  It always worries me when I hear young transitioners saying they want to look like some young starlet.  In my mind they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

My goal when starting out 11 years ago was to simply do the best I could with what I had AND to be authentic, to really be ME.

I like to think that I succeeded (and YES, I am happy).

Quote from: SciNerdGirl on July 15, 2014, 12:08:07 AM
In my eyes I'd say that about 90% of all the women I have ever known have a fundamental physical beauty that I would consider basically as "pretty" (regardless of what the media might say, or those women might think of themselves).  This includes most of the women I have seen pictures of in this site.  I think that I would be glowing with happiness if I could ever achieve that base level of beauty as a girl.

Thats what i tried to say. If your are with the last 10% you cant get lucky - in my eyes. Its not enough to feel as a woman and feel pretty. I tried it but there are so much things that doesnt pass and fit for me and for a FFS i dont have the money yet. Thats all a shame!  :'(

The bottom line is: yes. I'd still transition with zero guarantee I'll be pretty. As it currently stands, I expect to be passable but homely. That is an infinitely more appealing fate than the constant suicidal thoughts/self loathing/inevitable early grave that being male was for me.

Quote from: HeatherR on July 14, 2014, 09:49:35 PM
Attractive and passing are entirely different to me.. If I can live my life without getting constant stares and finger pointing, then I'll be happy.

...This!! Exactly what Heather said!

I hope I end up a fraction as attractive as my mother, sister, and daughter, since we four all share similar body types and facial structure. But I've also learned to not care whether that happens or not. If I had transitioned younger, I would have wanted to be a mirror to my mother, but now I am satisfied with simply being myself. That satisfaction, finally facing and overcoming my fears, means more to me than whether I am attractive or not.

At the same time, I keep getting warned by cisgender women that they think I am attractive, and I have to admit having been hit on a few times already, which those same women find intensely amusing. ;)

Quote from: Handy on July 15, 2014, 07:40:56 AM
The bottom line is: yes. I'd still transition with zero guarantee I'll be pretty. As it currently stands, I expect to be passable but homely. That is an infinitely more appealing fate than the constant suicidal thoughts/self loathing/inevitable early grave that being male was for me.

I find it pretty amazing that all my life every day there was always the idea of suicide floating around in my head, Once I started HRT 9 months ago the exact opposite is true I haven't thought of it once.

For me it's sort of important; primarily because I can tell that had I started hormones at a young age I'd have been really gorgeous and looked CIS.  I definitely think I'd have looked like a model.  I think I may still be pretty if I transition, but probably just a pretty ts... which means in the eyes of many people that I may as well be a man.  At this point I really have no idea what transitioning will do to me.

I'm sort of afraid of looking like a pretty ts.  I think if I had the choice between being a non-passable, but pretty ts or an average, but passable ts, I'd take the latter.

Quote from: Handy on July 15, 2014, 07:40:56 AM
The bottom line is: yes. I'd still transition with zero guarantee I'll be pretty. As it currently stands, I expect to be passable but homely. That is an infinitely more appealing fate than the constant suicidal thoughts/self loathing/inevitable early grave that being male was for me.

I don't think your homely, even now...