Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've been on T for nine months and I still can't pass. I know it takes about two years (I think?) for all the changes to happen, but it's hard to be positive about it on days when people look at me and I know they see someone female and/or on days when I can't ignore the fact that my body is female shaped.
What if this is it? What if this is as masculine as I get?
What if it doesn't matter how much weight I lose or how much I build up my shoulders, I'll always be very obviously female shaped?
What if my waist will always be shaped like this ) (?
What if I can never grow facial hair?
What if my arms will always be girly skinny?
What if my face always looks so f-ing feminine?
How can I make it through the next few years unable to fix my chest because it's so expensive and this province is stupid?
What if I can never be taken seriously as who I am?

Sorry to jump the fence here, but our worries and concerns are not so different coming from the other direction.  I always just tell myself that even if this is as good as it gets, it's still infinitely better than where I was before.

But TBH, only 9 months or so of T for me pretty much did jack sh*t.  It really took 2-3 years before I saw anything besides peach fuzz on mah face or could start to put on muscle.  In fact, I couldn't grow a proper 'stache until I was over 30.

Right. Patience. I have to learn to be patient. Thanks, Jill.

i think its like up to 5 years we will keep having changes on T, I got this packet from my doctor all about T and there is a timeline thing on when to expect changes, although it varies by person, but I remember seeing some changes taking up to 5 years to really see. Do you have a pic of yourself you can show? Might be able to calm your nerves, a lot of the time we are our worse critics, I always see female still when I look in the mirror too, but others don't.

Quote from: Ryan55 on July 09, 2014, 05:06:31 PM
i think its like up to 5 years we will keep having changes on T, I got this packet from my doctor all about T and there is a timeline thing on when to expect changes, although it varies by person, but I remember seeing some changes taking up to 5 years to really see. Do you have a pic of yourself you can show? Might be able to calm your nerves, a lot of the time we are our worse critics, I always see female still when I look in the mirror too, but others don't.

Ryan, will you trade mirrors with me then?   :D
 
Seriously, you look 100% dude in your avatar to me.

Hey edge this might be obv but how are your levels??

Dw, T should do it. It's very unlikely to be unable to ever pass as a guy in the long run, no matter what your bone structure is like. Also gaining muscle would definitely reduce the appearance of a waist! It's hard but hang in there!! :)

Honestly Victor, you sound EXACTLY like me at 9 months on T. I asked myself all the same questions. Never passed at all, changes were few and far between, wondering if it would always be like this...

It took a few months longer but I DID start passing, and now I do all the time! And the changes are coming and are much more pronounced than they ever were 9 months in. Some of us just take longer than others. This is absolutely not the be all and end all of what T will do for you.

Thanks, Ryan, sad panda, and Caleb. I'm sorry I'm being all whiny about this. I just got hit really hard with dysphoria and the "what if" thing.

Quote from: Ryan55 on July 09, 2014, 05:06:31 PM
Do you have a pic of yourself you can show? Might be able to calm your nerves, a lot of the time we are our worse critics, I always see female still when I look in the mirror too, but others don't.

Unfortunately, sharing my picture on here does nothing to ease my nerves because everyone insists that I look male whereas, in real life, almost everyone knows just from seeing me that my body is female. It really f-ing sucks.

You'll get there man. Trust me, I'm an impatient lil brat but chanting that it'll come one day and then I'll never have to worry really about it again seems to help on my low days. Just gotta keep reminding yourself you aren't the first one, your time will come and one day you'll wake up and you won't see much if any of your old self left and everyone around you will notice too and from then on it's smooth sailing.

Also sorry to jump on you all mens side of the forum.

My husband has been on T since 2005 and still is seeing changes since he has had is hysto.

Puberty is a very long progress and same on this side many push for changes faster then there bodies will give.

I feel knowing a few men that you will in time get to where you will pass just fine.

Isabell

Hops back over fence.

Thanks, Hex and Isabell.

By the way, ladies, don't worry about jumping over here and posting. I can't speak for the other guys, but all useful comments are useful.

Do you workout? It'll make some body changes come quicker and help get your mind off of things.

I'm starting to. I need to figure out a schedule and stick to it as well as figure out what exercises I should do and how many/long.

Quote from: Jill F on July 09, 2014, 05:10:34 PM
Seriously, you look 100% dude in your avatar to me.

Doesn't he!  ^-^

Before I realized I was trans I used to ask myself some of these questions. I don't have a lot of body hair. I can't grow a full beard, but I can get a mustache. I've been called feminine. I never took it as an insult, but maybe that was the girl inside of me hiding.

Quote from: Edge on July 09, 2014, 04:43:23 PM
I've been on T for nine months and I still can't pass. I know it takes about two years (I think?) for all the changes to happen, but it's hard to be positive about it on days when people look at me and I know they see someone female and/or on days when I can't ignore the fact that my body is female shaped.
What if this is it? What if this is as masculine as I get?
What if it doesn't matter how much weight I lose or how much I build up my shoulders, I'll always be very obviously female shaped?
What if my waist will always be shaped like this ) (?
What if I can never grow facial hair?
What if my arms will always be girly skinny?
What if my face always looks so f-ing feminine?
How can I make it through the next few years unable to fix my chest because it's so expensive and this province is stupid?
What if I can never be taken seriously as who I am?

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 09, 2014, 07:14:05 PM
Doesn't he!  ^-^

:eusa_dance: :icon_joy:

You'll get there, trust me.  Puberty takes longer than two years.  I'm coming up on 4 years on T and am still seeing changes.  You just have to be patient, no matter how hard that is, especially early in transition, it will change. 

Wow, I could have written this post, except I'm a little over a year on T. I also worry if this is as good as it gets. Perhaps our expectations were too high when we started and we have to get more realistic? It's hard to tell. But I do take comfort in hearing that this process will take years, so there's hope!

Yes give it time. Maybe change hair cuts as you progress? I am just now fully passing 100% of the time after 2 years on T (full/stabilized dose). Also remember that if your doctor and you have been changing the dose that effects the timeline of your changes as well. I started on a low dose and worked my way up to my full dose. It's been 2.5 years since my first T shot.

A lot of my issues with passing come from working around teens though since I'm very short and look very young to be a teacher. I get mistaken for a student all the time lol.

Give it time guys. Weight lifting helps a ton. Push ups and crunches/sit ups as well. Try eating healthier diets as well if you aren't already. A healthier body seems to make better use of the T in my case since I was having health issues a year ago and after they were resolved I saw a pick up in the changes that were happening.

And actually T is constantly making little changes. No one knows for sure when it "completes" since there is no study on the matter. Those charts are just working with known data. Like someone else said, it's basically puberty.

Quote from: KamTheMan on July 09, 2014, 06:36:18 PM
Do you workout? It'll make some body changes come quicker and help get your mind off of things.

this is actually a good idea, working out always makes me feel better about myself and makes me feel "manlier" lol maybe cause I feel like I can try and make a change with gaining muscle and my overall well being just feels better after. I think working out, can also help boost your testosterone level, not to sure on how truthful this is, but it does something to you lol

Quote from: Ryan55 on July 10, 2014, 11:49:22 AM
this is actually a good idea, working out always makes me feel better about myself and makes me feel "manlier" lol maybe cause I feel like I can try and make a change with gaining muscle and my overall well being just feels better after. I think working out, can also help boost your testosterone level, not to sure on how truthful this is, but it does something to you lol

Interesting.  Just before I had my big meltdown, I had recently lost a lot of body fat and had put on 25 pounds of muscle by working construction in my own kitchen over a summer- probably the most muscle mass I'd ever had in my life.  Seems the fluctuations of extra T was basically driving me crazy and somewhat suicidal.  It would make sense that guys thrive on T and girls, umm, don't.  I have not suffered from the debilitating depression nor anxiety that had plagued me from the age of 12 since I went on HRT.

Quote from: Jill F on July 10, 2014, 12:03:33 PM
It would make sense that guys thrive on T and girls, umm, don't.  I have not suffered from the debilitating depression nor anxiety that had plagued me from the age of 12 since I went on HRT.

Same except for on T and my unrelated mental condition still applies.

Thanks awilliams, aross, Mr. X, Sebryn, and Ryan.

Quote from: Ryan55 on July 10, 2014, 11:49:22 AM
this is actually a good idea, working out always makes me feel better about myself and makes me feel "manlier" lol maybe cause I feel like I can try and make a change with gaining muscle and my overall well being just feels better after. I think working out, can also help boost your testosterone level, not to sure on how truthful this is, but it does something to you lol

Same. I feel great during and after working out. Also, I agree with the ladies. You look amazing. What kind of work outs do you do?

Quote from: Ryan55 on July 10, 2014, 11:49:22 AM
this is actually a good idea, working out always makes me feel better about myself and makes me feel "manlier" lol maybe cause I feel like I can try and make a change with gaining muscle and my overall well being just feels better after. I think working out, can also help boost your testosterone level, not to sure on how truthful this is, but it does something to you lol

Well you do get a rush of endorphins after a good workout. I have sort of a problem with anger since I've been pushing back my repressed feelings to be a man for so long that I need to exercise daily to keep them at bay.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 12:06:31 PM
Same except for on T and my unrelated mental condition still applies.

Thanks awilliams, aross, Mr. X, Sebryn, and Ryan.
Same. I feel great during and after working out. Also, I agree with the ladies. You look amazing. What kind of work outs do you do?

I do more weight training then anything, I might spend around a half hour on cardio and then I do interval weight lifts, I was actually told by the doctor when starting T to do this, since I guess estrogen "lubes" up our muscles lol so to not hurt ourselves while weight lifting on T, doing it by intervals is the best bet and not trying to be the hulk cause we feel stronger lol

Quote from: Ryan55 on July 10, 2014, 02:35:01 PM
I do more weight training then anything, I might spend around a half hour on cardio and then I do interval weight lifts, I was actually told by the doctor when starting T to do this, since I guess estrogen "lubes" up our muscles lol so to not hurt ourselves while weight lifting on T, doing it by intervals is the best bet and not trying to be the hulk cause we feel stronger lol

I already weight train and have no problms and I'm not on T, over doing it can mess up anyone.

Your best bet is to lift weights but don't overdue it, Also I un on my threadmill and do my push ups and situps. If you have a jump roap lying around use it.

I have been lifting weights. Is there anything I can do about my waist though? Because it is very much shaped like this ) (.

My partner's cousin is a "cis" male and VERY much has an hour glass shape. He's not fat at all. That knocked my dysphoria down a decent amount because I had never seen a man shaped like me in person.

I'm another one for working out. I still don't pass sometimes and I'm over 3 years on T. I definitely won't have money for top surgery any time soon... But I finally decided to stop feeling sorry about my body and just progress it the best that I can. I'm super impatient and get kind of self conscious at the gym but I try to ground myself... Just remind yourself that it's the long run that matters.

Quote from: Edge on July 09, 2014, 04:43:23 PM
I've been on T for nine months and I still can't pass. I know it takes about two years (I think?) for all the changes to happen, but it's hard to be positive about it on days when people look at me and I know they see someone female and/or on days when I can't ignore the fact that my body is female shaped.
What if this is it? What if this is as masculine as I get?
What if it doesn't matter how much weight I lose or how much I build up my shoulders, I'll always be very obviously female shaped?
What if my waist will always be shaped like this ) (?
What if I can never grow facial hair?
What if my arms will always be girly skinny?
What if my face always looks so f-ing feminine?
How can I make it through the next few years unable to fix my chest because it's so expensive and this province is stupid?
What if I can never be taken seriously as who I am?

Some changes happen faster than others. There may have been changes you haven't noticed yet because you're focusing on things that are still the same. It can get depressing comparing yourself to other people. Posting a video might help - maybe your mannerisms are what's keeping you from passing well.

Cisgender men have an hourglass shape sometimes. I know that doesn't help much because there are cisgender men with extra breast tissue as well and that doesn't make many of us stop wanting chest surgery, but I doubt that's why you're not passing.

Quote from: Kyler on July 10, 2014, 08:00:29 PM
My partner's cousin is a "cis" male and VERY much has an hour glass shape. He's not fat at all. That knocked my dysphoria down a decent amount because I had never seen a man shaped like me in person.

I work with a guy who has a very, very feminine lower body (big hips/butt). And he's almost certainly cisgender.

Thanks guys, but I really REALLY want to fix my f-ing shape. It's so f-ed up.
And yeah, my mannerisms probably also prevent me from passing because I'm too f-ing stupid to know how to act and keep falling into old patterns because that's all I know how to do. Of course, when I ask people about mannerisms they're all like "oh just act like yourself." No $#*! Sherlock. I would if I knew how. Or rather, I would if I knew how to act enough like myself while still being socially acceptable. People see me as this adorable, effeminate guy and I want nothing more than to rip out their intestines and hang them with them.
Sorry for the rant. I feel like swearing up a storm right now.

Also, no, it's not just my mannerism that prevent me from passing. I've been explicitly told that my appearance is effeminate.

Are the people telling you that you look effeminate wholeheartedly supportive of you? Family and friends made comments about me "looking like a woman" even after I had a beard; it turned out they did have issues deep down with my transition. If you want suggestions, you can feel free to PM me. I'll be honest with you about what I think would help you pass better. I know posting publicly isn't always helpful due to constant reassurance. It may really be a matter of time. I know a trans man who didn't pass as cisgender until he was well into his second year, but he looks more masculine than I ever would have expected now.

Quote from: Declan. on July 10, 2014, 08:59:31 PM
Are the people telling you that you look effeminate wholeheartedly supportive of you?

So they say.
I may take you up on PMing you for suggestions if that's ok. As long as the suggestions aren't "wear clothes you don't like" and "cut your hair so you look more like a butch woman and less like a metalhead."

I think Declan has a point, sometimes people will say things because they see what they want to see, if you get my drift.

By the way, I'd be happy to give you my honest feedback as well, if you're interested. I know how hard it is to get good feedback, and a lot of people can be afraid to give it because they don't want to be hurtful.

That's a bit of a problem since one of them is my boyfriend.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 09:44:50 PM
That's a bit of a problem since one of them is my boyfriend.

May I ask his sexual orientation? I'm not saying he sees you as a girl for certain, but yeah.

He's bi. He also does call me his boyfriend.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 09:05:10 PM
So they say.
I may take you up on PMing you for suggestions if that's ok. As long as the suggestions aren't "wear clothes you don't like" and "cut your hair so you look more like a butch woman and less like a metalhead."

Of course. I have long hair myself, actually - cutting it made me pass less, if anything.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 07:57:17 PM
I have been lifting weights. Is there anything I can do about my waist though? Because it is very much shaped like this ) (.

I think as far as your body goes you have to wait till T, I don't really have hour glass figure so I can't say.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 10:14:20 PM
He's bi. He also does call me his boyfriend.

Oh that's good. I didn't imagine you'd settle for a straight guy lol. But I wanted to ask just in case.

I feel that the weight redistribution takes time and is fairly gradual, but I've seen a gradual change and my shape isn't hour glass anymore. But I've been on T for 15 months and still think I have a ways to go, but I am read 98% or so as male, even though I have hips, no body hair (and probably won't get it), and a wisp of a stache, etc.


--Jay

Quote from: Declan. on July 10, 2014, 10:21:10 PM
Of course. I have long hair myself, actually - cutting it made me pass less, if anything.

I know right? I probably pass more with short hair than long hair when I don't straighten it, but I've passed with long, straightened hair. Only a couple times, but still. Also feel better about myself.

Quote from: birkin on July 10, 2014, 10:42:20 PMOh that's good. I didn't imagine you'd settle for a straight guy lol. But I wanted to ask just in case.

Nope, he's definitely bi. Actually, he came out to his mom by telling her I'm his boyfriend. She didn't take it very well though and he's currently struggling with that.

Quote from: aleon515 on July 10, 2014, 10:48:22 PM
I feel that the weight redistribution takes time and is fairly gradual, but I've seen a gradual change and my shape isn't hour glass anymore. But I've been on T for 15 months and still think I have a ways to go, but I am read 98% or so as male, even though I have hips, no body hair (and probably won't get it), and a wisp of a stache, etc.


--Jay

Yeah, I've got to be patient. Ok. I can do this. lol I don't have much body hair either and am unlikely to get much. Both my dad and brother are fairly hairless, so I doubt I have the genetics for it.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 11:05:55 PM
Nope, he's definitely bi. Actually, he came out to his mom by telling her I'm his boyfriend. She didn't take it very well though and he's currently struggling with that.

Wow, that's kind of awesome. I mean, I'm sorry his mum isn't taking it well, but if my SO came out by saying I was her girlfriend, it would make me feel pretty amazing. He could have tried to lessen the blow by telling her you are trans, but he put you and your feelings first. At least that's how it seems to me.

Yeah it is pretty awesome. I mean, the main reason he came out to her was because he felt it was time and he was tired of hiding, but he's been pretty good about calling me his boyfriend. Unfortunately, he has also been calling me cute and adorable and complimenting my appearance, but we had a talk about that and I think we're ok now. (That's what triggered my dysphoria raging. I know it doesn't sound like much, but he also expressed disbelief that I would ever lose my feminine figure.)

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 11:05:55 PM
I know right? I probably pass more with short hair than long hair when I don't straighten it, but I've passed with long, straightened hair. Only a couple times, but still. Also feel better about myself.

I also always passed better as a boy with long hair, it can hide your face shape if there's any issues there and make your face look more angular! It was always when I put my hair up that people started bugging me about my gender. It sounds kinda silly but I think having your hair in your face a bit is masculinizing.

Edge, I'm working on changing that ) ( waist shape too. For me oblique exercises are helping (dumbbell side-bends for one example). Bigger obliques = less like this ) ( and more like this | |.

Thanks, blink!

I'm on the boat to change shape as well. Like many, I thought T would work its magic without me having to do much. I know that over time, think 2-3 years, it might do just that. But I'm not a very patient man, so I started this diet and exercise regime and slowly but surely, it seems to be working. To isn't magic, and it seems we do have to work for some changes.

You're welcome. There's talk of working out arms, shoulders, and chest but I never see obliques mentioned.
Throwing this out there for guys pre-T, although HRT has made it more effective I did get some oblique development pre-T doing dumbbell side-bends. It takes time and weight progression (more weight with fewer reps works better than dozens of reps with a tiny dumbbell, it's important to start small for safety and work up from there) but you can get a head start on changing your body shape pre-T, and get in a habit of good form.

How long have you been on T, Mr. X?
Trust me, I know it takes work. That's why I've been making an effort to eat healthier and exercise. I'm just impatient and it's disheartening still not being able to pass and having body dysphoria get worse.

I haven't been on T yet and won't be for a long time but one of the things that worries me is that it'll be hard to lose the hourglass shape. I got it pretty bad with huge hips right now, though miraculously I've passed in the past. Weird.

I've been on T for a year and two months now. Up until I started my new regime, I noticed absolutely zero in the fat deposition department.

And yeah, I hear ya about the passing. I do pass in real life, but not on the phone. It's such a downer. But know that you can control your shape. To a certain extent, at least. Bones won't change, but it's fat that mostly matters. And the fact you're already starting to make changes means you're in control, and will manage to get rid of that damnable female shape. In a way, it feels good to have a brother who's starting to do the same.

Quote from: Edge on July 10, 2014, 11:56:34 PM
Yeah it is pretty awesome. I mean, the main reason he came out to her was because he felt it was time and he was tired of hiding, but he's been pretty good about calling me his boyfriend. Unfortunately, he has also been calling me cute and adorable and complimenting my appearance, but we had a talk about that and I think we're ok now. (That's what triggered my dysphoria raging. I know it doesn't sound like much, but he also expressed disbelief that I would ever lose my feminine figure.)

My girlfriend calls me cute too and while it goes very contrary to how I see myself and what kind of masculinity I wish to define for myself I have just grown to live with it. I keep thinking it makes sense in her little girl-world lmao, so I let her do it and it's fine as long she doesn't do it with others around. I've given up trying to change that. It's impossible. I just sigh, frown or roll my eyes at her and keep doing whatever I'm doing.

As for myself and fat, I noticed quite early on that I started bulking up on the stomach (I think 2 months or so in) but you gotta keep in mind that I did not have any ovaries left when I began my treatment so it could very well explain why things went faster for me. Also, I began a pretty rigorous workout regime where I try to do cardio at least every other day though I did almost every day about 1 month in on T because I was unemployed at the time and had the time to spend that much time at the gym which I don't anymore and it makes me a little sad but oh well; but I have definitely noticed that losing weight goes a long way in speeding up fat distribution. While I still got pretty round hips I can definitely see that I have slimmed down and I am losing fat on my thighs now too. I just wish I could lose those ladyhandles now because they are the ones that really seem to give me a female shape right now. I think I can at least look 1-1 in ratio shoulder-hip wise once I lose all that excess fat around my butt, hip, to a degree waistline and thighs and that is going to make me feel so much better even though I do pass and look all right if I find some really good fitting clothes.

I've been on T for exactly 5 months now today, actually. But yes, damn that fat. Over here we don't get any free liposuction though we get everything else. Makes no damn sense!

I think some men ARE cute. It might not be how you like to see yourself but I do think some men are cute.
It's not a masculine or feminine thing. I think it's more of a younger/older thing actually.

--Jay

It's a demeaning thing and it's not the kind of guy I am. Not the kind of guy I really am I mean. The "cute" comments are based on appearance and mannerisms I despise.