Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Lolita C. Baldor, Associated Press
July 17, 2014

The Bureau of Prisons has rejected the Army's request to accept the transfer of national security leaker Pvt. Chelsea Manning from a military prison. So the military will begin treatment for her gender-identity condition.

A defense official said Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has approved the Army's recommendation to keep Manning in military custody and start a rudimentary level of gender treatment.

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/chelsea-manning_n_5596668.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&ir=Gay%20Voices (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/chelsea-manning_n_5596668.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&ir=Gay%20Voices)

The US military is doing this now, especially in a prison case like this? I'll be watching this. I was in the Air Force just before the don't ask, don't tell repeal. I couldn't even begin to discus my problems back then, even during therapy appointments. I had to be as manly as possible and just deal with it.

This is just messed up. I never got too discuss my issues either Eevee. I mean I feel sorry for her on the fact that she is transgender. But how many other transgender, and at the time homosexual because they couldn't serve openly and had to hide too, people served without giving up military secrets. >:( I wouldn't expect to be able to transition if I did what she did. Hell I wouldn't expect to be alive. Grrrr....... She should not be helped, and I hate to say that about another transgender person

I don't agree with what she did either, but that does not mean her health needs shouldn't be taken care of. 

Quote from: skin on July 17, 2014, 09:52:28 PM
I don't agree with what she did either, but that does not mean her health needs shouldn't be taken care of.

I agree.  She needs medical help and she can only get that help from those who have imprisoned her.  To deny her access to appropriate treatment would be cruel and unnatural.  However I would like to know what a "rudimentary level of gender treatment" is and whether she is being treated humanely.

Aisla

I guess I just see it differently, I wonder how many died because of any information that she sold. I just can't get on board with helping her. Maybe it's my own dysphoria that gets triggered when I read about her but I just get really angry

It might not be wide spread acceptance in the military but my command has known I'm transgender since the end of February now and has not taken administrative action against me. I don't know if it's because I was already being medically discharged for an adjustment disorder with anxiety and depression or not. But if recently found out that apparently a lot of my higher ups have known my status and didn't tell me they knew and they just ignored it. Any way I got my paper work from the VA today and should be done with the Army soon, but the entire organization isn't complitly heartless they just do the best they can within regulations, some of which should be changed.

Quote from: KittyKat on July 17, 2014, 10:21:07 PM
It might not be wide spread acceptance in the military but my command has known I'm transgender since the end of February now and has not taken administrative action against me. I don't know if it's because I was already being medically discharged for an adjustment disorder with anxiety and depression or not. But if recently found out that apparently a lot of my higher ups have known my status and didn't tell me they knew and they just ignored it. Any way I got my paper work from the VA today and should be done with the Army soon, but the entire organization isn't complitly heartless they just do the best they can within regulations, some of which should be changed.

Well that's great! At least they treated you with respect during your time!:D

Quote from: RockerGirl on July 17, 2014, 10:17:16 PM
I just can't get on board with helping her. Maybe it's my own dysphoria that gets triggered when I read about her but I just get really angry

That's completely understandable.  I really don't think of it as helping her though. It is just doing the basics of taking care of her.

Quote from: KittyKat on July 17, 2014, 10:21:07 PM
It might not be wide spread acceptance in the military but my command has known I'm transgender since the end of February now and has not taken administrative action against me. I don't know if it's because I was already being medically discharged for an adjustment disorder with anxiety and depression or not.

It's not like it would have happened any faster if you got discharged for gender dysphoria.  I was told I was being separated for a gender identity disorder diagnosis in April of last year and I didn't get discharged until December 13th. 

Quote from: RockerGirl on July 17, 2014, 09:45:54 PM
I wouldn't expect to be able to transition if I did what she did. Hell I wouldn't expect to be alive. Grrrr....... She should not be helped, and I hate to say that about another transgender person

It was my understanding that she exposed:
- The detention of innocent people for years without charge or trial in order to "extract information".
- The deaths of journalists and innocent bystanders at the hands of the US armed forces (on camera).
- Documents revealing that coalition forces had killed hundreds of innocent civilians in the middle-east.
- Provisional US governmental plans to fire and criminally charge whistle-blowers who revealed their misdeeds (or crimes).

If a government is seriously trying to prevent it's actions from being revealed then should we not be asking why they don't want us to know what they've been up to?

If I've missed something could you explain what they have done to deserve such emnity?
Besides being called a traitor for showing that their government had taken what could at best be described as "morally questionable" actions.

Quote from: Falconer on July 17, 2014, 10:52:56 PM
It was my understanding that she exposed:
- The detention of innocent people for years without charge or trial in order to "extract information".
- The deaths of journalists and innocent bystanders at the hands of the US armed forces (on camera).
- Documents revealing that coalition forces had killed hundreds of innocent civilians in the middle-east.
- Provisional US governmental plans to fire and criminally charge whistle-blowers who revealed their misdeeds (or crimes).

If a government is seriously trying to prevent it's actions from being revealed then should we not be asking why they don't want us to know what they've been up to?

If I've missed something could you explain what they have done to deserve such emnity?
Besides being called a traitor for showing that their government had taken what could at best be described as "morally questionable" actions.

Falconer

I agree but also understand the alternative view.  My focus was on providing her with appriopriate medical care and support.  We all know how critical this is and she cannot source it herself.

Aisla

Quote from: Falconer on July 17, 2014, 10:52:56 PM
If I've missed something could you explain what they have done to deserve such emnity?
Besides being called a traitor for showing that their government had taken what could at best be described as "morally questionable" actions.

If she would have simply done that, then it would be a much different story.  However, she leaked ~750,000 reports.  The whole reason she was still there despite members of her CoC saying she was not mentally fit for duty was her position was understaffed, so I do not see it as a possibility that she had time to even read, let alone analyze the ramifications of leaking the reports she did.  Yes, she exposed things that needed exposing, but she did so without regard for the safety of her fellow service members.

Do we know exactly what she gave up? There may have been more, I don't know if everything was released. She took quite a lot of documents. Was some of it done for good reasons, possibly. I know she felt like she was doing the right thing. But I haven't seen the unequivocal 100% this is every last document she took in its entirety. I don't even think she knew every last document she released. Most certainly she knew the ones she wanted.

 :police: Back on topic please. This topic is not about what she did or did not do. That is for another topic.  :police:

Sorry Jessica!:o
Back on topic, I do wonder what kind of treatment they'll allow.

Quote from: RockerGirl on July 17, 2014, 11:20:13 PM
I do wonder what kind of treatment they'll allow.

This is just speculation on my part, but I am going to guess HRT as that is relatively low cost and anything more than that will require a court order.

True, I couldn't see them letting her do SRS without a big legal battle

I sincerely hope she receives the treatment she needs and inherently deserves in order to be imprisoned without any cruel or unusual strain being suffered. I wouldn't accept leaving a person in significant anguish of any kind, life-threatening or not, and think a willingness to do that is indicative of a worryingly retributive and callous mind.

Whether I agree with what she did or not is irrelevant in my mind, the USA seems to have created a healthcare system wherein access to many transition options largely relies on the capacity to earn sufficient economic status. I already view that as wrong (and think universal healthcare systems in existence need to go further) but when you imprison somebody I think you take responsibility for providing that healthcare since they can't participate in the economy. There might be the risk of providing a perverse incentive for crime if you make prisoner healthcare options higher quality than those received by other citizens but I'd say that's a problem with the rest of society and that your society needs to change rather than drag everyone down. Of course, I'm strongly leftist so I'm bound to think that. :P

This is a momentous decision, it sets a legal precedent to all man and woman in the Armed forces.... now all will have to be treated for GID if in prison...

Quote from: RockerGirl on July 17, 2014, 10:17:16 PM
I guess I just see it differently, I wonder how many died because of any information that she sold. I just can't get on board with helping her. Maybe it's my own dysphoria that gets triggered when I read about her but I just get really angry

She didnt sell any information, she leaked it to whistleblow on stuff she considered morally wrong. Please get the facts correct.

Quote from: Olivia P on July 21, 2014, 06:44:55 AM
She didnt sell any information, she leaked it to whistleblow on stuff she considered morally wrong. Please get the facts correct.

Manning disclosed classified information, break the law, and is a traitor, and this is the pure fact... 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 17, 2014, 11:16:49 PM
:police: Back on topic please. This topic is not about what she did or did not do. That is for another topic.  :police:

The warning went out.

Topic locked.