Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I see some people online complaining about being misgendered while they're out and about, not even trying to present themselves accordingly, and then tag their posts "I dislike cis people". As much as we would all like everyone to just get it and show the appropriate respect, it's not going to just happen every time you walk out the door. Expecting others to read your mind and instinctually know your gender is being very unrealistic.

When you're any kind of minority in the world and expect special treatment, you need to seriously re-evaluate your situation. Instead of showing hostility to your oppressors, be the better example. If you don't then you're just risking further abuse and division. I'd rather co-exist with everyone than sequester myself into one little community.

While it is cis people who are going to treat others like vampires, it's not all of them, and it's not mature or helpful to show the same attitude in return. Think up some helpful, inclusive solutions, and be active toward the goal of equality. It cannot be forced, but it can be learned with the right approach and a positive attitude. I refuse to be on the defense my whole life. I'd rather be a beacon of love and truth.

And I'd rather live for a million years and never hurt and be happy eternally. But that isn't my life. The truth is that a lot of the time I'm scared and sad and in pain. I don't trust easily and I'm sure some folks would see me as hostile. I also think it's a bit weird to equate "hostility" with "risking abuse." I'm pretty sure I could be the nicest creature on the planet and still "risk abuse." I don't think I was particularly hostile when I was 3, personally. But whatever.

I've said to my girlfriend "I hate people" before. Of course I don't really mean it quite like that. It's just an expression of exhaustion and fear. Sometimes people get tired and sad and frustrated and they give voice to that in what they feel is a safe space. For some, the only safe space that exists is online.

In fact the whole concept of "safe space" is about being temporarily sequestered. It's why we have private space versus public space. Imagine if you had no space of your own at all? Would be pretty rough. Being around random, unknown strangers all the time is... difficult. Sometimes I don't want to go out and face the world, so it is. Of course I, personally, don't particularly trust trans folks more than cis folks, but everyone is different.

So, ya, today I don't feel like being mature or helpful. My head has been killing me for the last 4 days, a friend just died, and work is too slow and not distracting me. Maybe tomorrow I'll be mature and helpful. We'll see.

That's completely understandable. Sometimes we just have those days.

Quote from: sororcaeli on July 23, 2014, 02:55:42 PM

When you're any kind of minority in the world and expect special treatment, you need to seriously re-evaluate your situation. Instead of showing hostility to your oppressors, be the better example. If you don't then you're just risking further abuse and division. I'd rather co-exist with everyone than sequester myself into one little community.

this! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I hate a lot of the tumblr community that whines about cis people because it seems like a lot of them are just pretending to be trans.  They make us look like jokes.  Meanwhile, I know plenty of good and bad cis people, just like pretty much everyone else.

I try not to take it to heart when people say they hate cis people. I normally assume, or hope, that I am not included in that, or wouldn't be if they knew me. I have seen a few videos of things cis people say that trans people hate, and that made me a bit sad, mostly because I'd actually said a few things on the list. For one, I tried to find a way I could relate- so I tried to take times I've been misgendered and explain how much I didn't like it, and how I can't imagine living life that way. Apparently some people find that offensive. Also, some of the questions they didn't like seemed like said cis person was just a bit uneducated, but willing to learn. So it made me a bit sad to see them dislike someone for trying to understand. But perhaps that was a sensitive day? Either way, I try to understand that trans people have to deal with a lot of bs from idiots who don't even try to understand, I've unfortunately seen it too often. So I try to remember that when reading cis hate rants.

I don't hate anyone really. I don't really blame individual discriminating people for their views but rather society as a whole. People are individual people a lot are good and accepting alone, but society is like a mob mentality and those same accepting people in their own little groups will look to their "group leader" and generally follow their lead.

As a cis-gendered friend of an awesome trans-girl, I can understand the frustrations with the cis-community / cis-people at times. Even amongst our group of friends, there has been a great deal of confusion / wrong things said / feelings hurt since my friend started transition ( and onwards ) . I think being part of a minority group such as the trans community, and ( depending on where you live / your community ) dealing with a lot of BS / ignorance from the                 cis-community would make even the most understanding person frustrated. With that said, 'hate' is a strong word, but it's one people tend to use pretty lightly. ( i.e., "I hate Mondays". "I hate Bill O'Reilly". "I hate pesto turkey sandwiches") , so I tend not to take such things to heart. :)

I have no time for hate.  The root of hate is always fear or a tribal casting of people into "otherness".  I am, thankfully, not a representative or spokesperson for the trans community, but I am often the only example of a T-girl that many people come into contact with.  I do not tolerate abuse, but neither do I take umbrage at confusion.

I cannot expect that most people will understand dysphoria.  The connection for virtually everyone between their sense of self and their gender identification is profound.  That I would rather die than continue living as a slave to my genotype is beyond the pale and so far outside the experience of most people as to be incomprehensible.

Some years ago I participated in a group that was working through "A Course In Miracles."  There was a lot in that discussion that was difficult for me to accept, but one thing that has stuck with me was the notion of otherness.  Humans are tribal in nature.  We tend to objectify those outside of our tribe or group.  If you are different from me then you are "other" and I have no moral responsibility towards you.  As a class, transgendered people are so much outside of the normal experience of most people that understanding takes effort, and it is simpler to to castigate and ostracise than to make the considerable effort necessary to understand.  I think that is a root cause of the horrible violence we experience, and the self destructive behavior so many of us resort to.

When you are treated as nothing, you become nothing.

What I can do is to be better than people who find me odd, weird, and wrong.  I hold my head up, engage when approached, and never ever return invective with invective.  In practice I am almost never treated disrespectfully.  This isn't because I am beautiful, but because I see myself as beautiful. 

I am the best woman, friend, person that I know how to be.  That is a full time job, and I don't always do it well, but I always try.  It is my privilege to live an authentic life, and my delight in living it every day.  I do not fear that spiritually "turning the other cheek" will encourage aggression from the broader community, and sometimes I am able to teach by example or by explanation.  Hate for anyone or anything is the antithesis of serenity.  Serenity with who I am and with my place in the world is what an authentic joy filled life requires.

Cheers,
Julie

While I don't personally engage in it because I still have the energy reserves to avoid it, I do know quite a few people that sometimes say that they 'hate cis people'. While they aren't equivalent in their origins, I also know, or know of, people belonging to oppressed groups that say they 'hate men,' 'hate straight people,' or 'hate white people.'

Do they mean this literally? Invariably not in my experience, they are referring to the depersonalised generic traits of their oppressor class rather than every individual therein. They seem to generalise because they have been so exhausted and drained by members of that group that potent frustration, anger, or other negative emotions lead to an outburst or a different perspective. I don't judge them for that because I regard it as emotional self-defence. Similarly, I don't condemn because I appreciate that every person is different and we all have varying tolerance thresholds for abuse or misunderstanding. I think it would be arrogant of me to expect everyone to live to my behavioural standards and saying 'not all of X group,' when they clearly already know that, does nothing but derail their attempt at catharsis. If generalising allows them to avoid depression longer, purge emotions, motivate themselves, etc then I don't see an issue with that. It's their way of dealing with being oppressed. For me, they don't belong to an empowered social group so their generalisation can yield no real harm, just personal benefits.

In my mind, the nature of their generalisation is also categorically different from generalisations created by oppressor groups. The oppressor has no justifiable reason for their generalisations and vitriol since the oppressed group doesn't harm them or impose on them. I tend to think they generalise and harm because they can and because there's nothing compelling them to empathise or think about actions. Conversely, generalisations for the oppressed can lead to greater personal resolve via crystallising the opponent in the mind and can lead to greater community unity behind the concept of the opponent class. Flowing from that, I don't think generalisations are inherently wrong until they, in my judgement, yield more harm than happiness. They are just another context-dependent tool that can be used to achieve the best outcome, for me.

Further, while I personally try to be as empathetic and positive as possible so attempt to apply the standards espoused in the opening post, I also firmly reject the expectations of the respectability politics that seem to be included in it. I think it sounds nice and gets lots of applause but isn't realistic when dealing with the unique challenges of each oppressed person in their daily lives. I think it's also indicative of a general ahistorical trend that would have us believe that non-violent activism of those 'being better than' their oppressors alone achieves victory when I think history shows that's not the case, whether you look at the civil rights movement in the US, the movement for Indian independence, or the suffragettes in the UK.

Having said that, I want to make it clear that I agree people cannot be expected to be telepathic but advocating a duty to be nice to oppressors isn't acceptable to me either. It isn't a person's fault for being frustrated with an oppressor's imposition of baseless norms and isn't their personal duty to educate that person if they don't have the energy or will for it. I don't think it's expecting 'special treatment,' it's annoyance with the way the oppressor group see themselves as having no duty to improve, see members of oppressed group as educational resources rather than people, etc. In the case of the opening post, I think it's annoyance with the prevalence of cissexism that leads to the hypothetical trans person saying they dislike cisgender people.

Quote from: OreSama on July 24, 2014, 06:24:30 AM
I hate a lot of the tumblr community that whines about cis people because it seems like a lot of them are just pretending to be trans.  They make us look like jokes.  Meanwhile, I know plenty of good and bad cis people, just like pretty much everyone else.

I'm afraid I think this comes awfully close to a convenient No True Scotsman fallacy and pretty close to erasing or misgendering those you dislike. Equally, whether they are jokes to us or not, I don't think we get to be arbiters of the validity of their trans identity provided there are no obviously indisputable cues showing they're harmful liars. I regard that thinking as roughly equivalent to HBSers and 'true transsexual' advocates that claim anyone that doesn't match the prescriptions of their political bubble is illegitimate. I apologise if that wasn't your intent.

Quote from: Lonicera on July 24, 2014, 03:49:55 PM
I'm afraid I think this comes awfully close to a convenient No True Scotsman fallacy and pretty close to erasing or misgendering those you dislike. Equally, whether they are jokes to us or not, I don't think we get to be arbiters of the validity of their trans identity provided there are no obviously indisputable cues showing they're harmful liars. I regard that thinking as roughly equivalent to HBSers and 'true transsexual' advocates that claim anyone that doesn't match the prescriptions of their political bubble is illegitimate. I apologise if that wasn't your intent.

Oh no, I wasn't trying say none of them are trans as there are a lot of trans people in that group, it just seems like there are also a lot of people making things up.  I was specifically talking about the people who say that that cis people are all scum and we should all be trans.  It makes it seem like it's a choice to transition, not a necessity.  Sorry for not being clearer in my original statement.

Quote from: OreSama on July 24, 2014, 04:02:11 PM
Oh no, I wasn't trying say none of them are trans as there are a lot of trans people in that group, it just seems like there are also a lot of people making things up.  I was specifically talking about the people who say that that cis people are all scum and we should all be trans.  It makes it seem like it's a choice to transition, not a necessity.  Sorry for not being clearer in my original statement.

Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify that and I apologise for misunderstanding, I just like to make sure things aren't exclusionary and can be zealous when doing it. I can entirely agree that anyone arguing everyone should be trans is harmful since they try to impose a fundamental identity on others and erase the existence of those that identify with the binary. Equally, while I personally happen to have no issue with those that aren't dysphoric in the classical sense and 'choose' to transition for other purposes, I also agree that those making it seem like everyone should do it or those masking the fact there are people that are compelled to transition are very harmful. Once again, sorry for not appreciating that.

Edit: Changed 'anyone' to 'everyone' for clarity.

Quote from: Lonicera on July 24, 2014, 04:09:21 PM
Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify that and I apologise for misunderstanding, I just like to make sure things aren't exclusionary and can be zealous when doing it. I can entirely agree that anyone arguing everyone should be trans is harmful since they try to impose a fundamental identity on others and erase the existence of those that identify with the binary. Equally, while I personally happen to have no issue with those that aren't dysphoric in the classical sense and 'choose' to transition for other purposes, I also agree that those making it seem like anyone should do it or those masking the fact there are people that are compelled to transition are very harmful. Once again, sorry for not appreciating that.

No problem.  I'm glad you spoke up so I could elaborate, as I understand that I wasn't really specific enough in my original post.

Sorry for the following wall of text. I just kind of rambled on. Additionally, I apologize if parts are incoherent. I'm tired and want to stream an episode of Daria before going to bed.

Quote from: sororcaeli on July 23, 2014, 02:55:42 PM
When you're any kind of minority in the world and expect special treatment, you need to seriously re-evaluate your situation. Instead of showing hostility to your oppressors, be the better example. If you don't then you're just risking further abuse and division. I'd rather co-exist with everyone than sequester myself into one little community.

While it is cis people who are going to treat others like vampires, it's not all of them, and it's not mature or helpful to show the same attitude in return. Think up some helpful, inclusive solutions, and be active toward the goal of equality. It cannot be forced, but it can be learned with the right approach and a positive attitude. I refuse to be on the defense my whole life. I'd rather be a beacon of love and truth.

I feel you might be a bit mistaken about the history of civil rights movements. As we know, the "winners" write history, and it is no different in terms of marginalized people gaining civil rights. The reality of the situation is that for successful movements, you need the carrot and the stick. You need someone to be polite and explain the situation as well as someone ready to kick some teeth in.

I think the civil rights movement of the 60's is a great example. What we hear today is that Martin Luther King Jr. came along and pointed out how African-Americans had it poorly because of a few bad people. In response, white people listened and learned the error of their ways and things changed, and civil rights are over.

In reality, Martin Luther King was quite radical. But for Bayard Rustin and Fred Gray, he would be in the same league as the Nation of Islam advocating black people to carry guns. King did have ties to communists, he did plan out the Rosa Parks situation and the Montgomery bus boycott to agitate the majority (neither of which I learned in school, it was whitewashed as "Rosa just had a long day at work"). King outright stated that the biggest obstacle to African American rights was not the frothing at the mouth racist, but the white moderate who cared more about a negative peace than a positive justice. He wanted black people to be bit by dogs and sprayed with hoses so as to face their fears and mobilize support for the movement. He wanted to piss off white people so that white people would just give into African American rights.

But we don't hear these things today. Indeed, we lose a lot of things from the civil rights movement: Malcolm X, Huey Newton, Bayard Rustin (though, that is mainly due to homosexuality not being in vogue at the time). Regardless, as demonized as the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers are, there is little denying that those groups were a huge factor in the social movement. They mobilized and empowered black people when it was necessary. They spread news of police misconduct or hate crimes when the mainstream media at the time was more than happy to turn a blind eye. They organized marches to show white society the choice it had: listen to "peaceful" King, or prepare for war. And even after all of this, I still believe it is a fallacy to say that African Americans attained equality. White people no long say the "n-word," but African Americans are still discriminated against by the criminal justice system, employers, and society. In essence, I'm skeptical that any minority group will attain true equality. Instead, minorities will simply get to a point where the burdens they endure are bearable.

Before you say that I am the one revising history, you see this in other movements as well. The British leaving India is largely associated with Gandhi and non-violence, but there is a bit more to the story. Gandhi was at best an agitator, a troll if you will, whose sole mission was to aggravate the British into just throwing their hands up and leaving. We also forget the extremist party and Bal Tilak (the Indian version of the Nation of Islam and Malcolm X, respectively).

Additionally, while the queer rights movement has been relatively peaceful, let us not forget Stonewall and Compton's cafeteria riot. Two very prominent examples of queer people being so fed up with being bashed, that they bashed back. My main gripe is that since then, the gay rights movement took a more subversive approach of "show society that we're no different," which brought us sassy gay characters in movies and television. It worked over time, but made the movement more unequal. Drag queens and transwomen were the first people to fight back against the police (we were after all the only groups likely to be arrested). Ironically, since Stonewall, we've been the first group dismissed as a bargaining chip so that Gay, white, middle-class, men could advance their interests. I mean, ask a gay white man in west Hollywood if society accepts him. Then ask a black lesbian in Texas or a Hispanic trans-woman in the Florida Pan Handle and see if you get the same results.

In contrast, I think the recent Occupy movement is a great example of why you need a stick with a carrot. Occupy did a great job of remaining peaceful, too great a job. While they sat down chanting slogans, the police rushed in with nightsticks and pepper spray, beat down the protesters and then falsely charged them with BS crimes. The result is that nothing changed. The only thing left of Occupy are the small pockets that still do great things (squatters' rights) and "the 1%" has now entered society's vernacular.

Taking this full circle, and returning to the OP's quote about "not all cis-people being hateful," cis-hate doesn't bother me. Nor does the tumblr slogan "die cis scum." I'm not part of that camp, but I'm not bothered by it either. I do not see it as my job to be my sister's keeper and police her language. I have more important things to focus on and I'm not going to spin my wheels policing the language of someone else. If anything, I am going to spend more time on how to craft my narrative to cis-people to change minds while focusing my energies on helping the trans community. My personal view on the matter is that if you've seen cis hate here or elsewhere, call the person out directly and state your opinion in as non-confrontational a way as possible while being clear about who the message is directed at (I hope this is within the realm of the rules, cause I was about to say "be confrontational, it'll funny." And that's just bad advice).

I talked a lot King, and would like to restate his quote about white moderates being the biggest obstacle to African-American success. It's the same thing today. Cis-people don't all have to be evil, trans-bashing, kitten-punters. They just need to turn a blind eye to injustice. Or worse, hold trans folk to a BS double-standard that is not applied to any other group in a similar situation. The reality is, as long as most cis people continue to think of us as the butt of jokes or "traps," they are part of the problem, even if they're not actively bashing us or saying nasty things to our faces.

And to make a post on a trans forum concerning cis-hate seems a bit backhanded. I have never seen any form of cis hate on this forum. Thus, the only purpose for the post I can assume is that some onus for ending cis hate falls on us. This is a BS double-standard. German people are not expected to apologize for the Nazis. Podunk towns are not expected to apologize for the klan. Bearded math professors are not expected to apologize for the unibomber. Catholics aren't expected to apologize for child-raping priests or Jew-murdering inquisitors. Canadians are not expected to apologize for Justin Bieber. But some how, a board that I have seen zero cis hate on over the past five years should now concern itself with cis hate and hostility.

Adding a thicker layer of confusion, cis hate has no real harm to society. People actually died in all of my prior examples (nazis, the klan, unibomber, the catholic church, J-Biebs). Transsexuals do not gather into posses and kill cis people. It's the other way around. Cis hate is harmless and the only reason it gets any kind of attention is because it hurts the majority's feelings. In many ways, our existence hurts cis feelings (the 2005 New York case of Hispanic Aids forum v. Estate of Bruno is a good example, where defendants terminated the lease of plaintiffs for holding a trans-support group which made cis people uncomfortable. The court found for defendants while doing mental gymnastics to ignore a NY law providing equal protections to trans individuals). Just like how the civil rights movement was whitewashed, our narrative has to appeal to the majority and stroke their ego. That's why there are cis people who focus on this hypothetical threat or hostility to cis people, while glossing over the real threats and hostility we face every day. That's why men's rights activists and blaming rape victims are things: because the majority's right to be comfortable supersedes the minority's right to be equal.

In closing, I don't think that the onus for curing "cis-hate" or "die cis scum" or "hostility to cis people" should be put on the trans community, this forum, or even the people spreading cis hate. Instead, I think it should rightfully be put on the cis community for creating an world that hurts gender variant people to the point they harbored that hate. Just my opinion.

Fighting fire with fire only serves to make more fire. Instead, be the sensible one and use soothing compressed nitrogen.


a.k.a: Fighting hate with hate gets us nowhere.

Quote from: sororcaeli on July 23, 2014, 02:55:42 PM
When you're any kind of minority in the world and expect special treatment, you need to seriously re-evaluate your situation. Instead of showing hostility to your oppressors, be the better example. If you don't then you're just risking further abuse and division. I'd rather co-exist with everyone than sequester myself into one little community.

THIS.

I know I'm out of touch with a lot of cultural trends, but I've never seen anyone say they don't like cispeople. I'm pretty sure that's most people, and that seems like an extreme sentiment even on tumblr.

But the best way of gaining acceptance from people is alienating them!

Quote from: Kayla on July 24, 2014, 09:11:43 PM
Sorry for the following wall of text. I just kind of rambled on. Additionally, I apologize if parts are incoherent. I'm tired and want to stream an episode of Daria before going to bed.

I feel you might be a bit mistaken about the history of civil rights movements. As we know, the "winners" write history, and it is no different in terms of marginalized people gaining civil rights. The reality of the situation is that for successful movements, you need the carrot and the stick. You need someone to be polite and explain the situation as well as someone ready to kick some teeth in.

I think the civil rights movement of the 60's is a great example. What we hear today is that Martin Luther King Jr. came along and pointed out how African-Americans had it poorly because of a few bad people. In response, white people listened and learned the error of their ways and things changed, and civil rights are over.

In reality, Martin Luther King was quite radical. But for Bayard Rustin and Fred Gray, he would be in the same league as the Nation of Islam advocating black people to carry guns. King did have ties to communists, he did plan out the Rosa Parks situation and the Montgomery bus boycott to agitate the majority (neither of which I learned in school, it was whitewashed as "Rosa just had a long day at work"). King outright stated that the biggest obstacle to African American rights was not the frothing at the mouth racist, but the white moderate who cared more about a negative peace than a positive justice. He wanted black people to be bit by dogs and sprayed with hoses so as to face their fears and mobilize support for the movement. He wanted to piss off white people so that white people would just give into African American rights.

But we don't hear these things today. Indeed, we lose a lot of things from the civil rights movement: Malcolm X, Huey Newton, Bayard Rustin (though, that is mainly due to homosexuality not being in vogue at the time). Regardless, as demonized as the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers are, there is little denying that those groups were a huge factor in the social movement. They mobilized and empowered black people when it was necessary. They spread news of police misconduct or hate crimes when the mainstream media at the time was more than happy to turn a blind eye. They organized marches to show white society the choice it had: listen to "peaceful" King, or prepare for war. And even after all of this, I still believe it is a fallacy to say that African Americans attained equality. White people no long say the "n-word," but African Americans are still discriminated against by the criminal justice system, employers, and society. In essence, I'm skeptical that any minority group will attain true equality. Instead, minorities will simply get to a point where the burdens they endure are bearable.

Before you say that I am the one revising history, you see this in other movements as well. The British leaving India is largely associated with Gandhi and non-violence, but there is a bit more to the story. Gandhi was at best an agitator, a troll if you will, whose sole mission was to aggravate the British into just throwing their hands up and leaving. We also forget the extremist party and Bal Tilak (the Indian version of the Nation of Islam and Malcolm X, respectively).

Additionally, while the queer rights movement has been relatively peaceful, let us not forget Stonewall and Compton's cafeteria riot. Two very prominent examples of queer people being so fed up with being bashed, that they bashed back. My main gripe is that since then, the gay rights movement took a more subversive approach of "show society that we're no different," which brought us sassy gay characters in movies and television. It worked over time, but made the movement more unequal. Drag queens and transwomen were the first people to fight back against the police (we were after all the only groups likely to be arrested). Ironically, since Stonewall, we've been the first group dismissed as a bargaining chip so that Gay, white, middle-class, men could advance their interests. I mean, ask a gay white man in west Hollywood if society accepts him. Then ask a black lesbian in Texas or a Hispanic trans-woman in the Florida Pan Handle and see if you get the same results.

In contrast, I think the recent Occupy movement is a great example of why you need a stick with a carrot. Occupy did a great job of remaining peaceful, too great a job. While they sat down chanting slogans, the police rushed in with nightsticks and pepper spray, beat down the protesters and then falsely charged them with BS crimes. The result is that nothing changed. The only thing left of Occupy are the small pockets that still do great things (squatters' rights) and "the 1%" has now entered society's vernacular.

Taking this full circle, and returning to the OP's quote about "not all cis-people being hateful," cis-hate doesn't bother me. Nor does the tumblr slogan "die cis scum." I'm not part of that camp, but I'm not bothered by it either. I do not see it as my job to be my sister's keeper and police her language. I have more important things to focus on and I'm not going to spin my wheels policing the language of someone else. If anything, I am going to spend more time on how to craft my narrative to cis-people to change minds while focusing my energies on helping the trans community. My personal view on the matter is that if you've seen cis hate here or elsewhere, call the person out directly and state your opinion in as non-confrontational a way as possible while being clear about who the message is directed at (I hope this is within the realm of the rules, cause I was about to say "be confrontational, it'll funny." And that's just bad advice).

I talked a lot King, and would like to restate his quote about white moderates being the biggest obstacle to African-American success. It's the same thing today. Cis-people don't all have to be evil, trans-bashing, kitten-punters. They just need to turn a blind eye to injustice. Or worse, hold trans folk to a BS double-standard that is not applied to any other group in a similar situation. The reality is, as long as most cis people continue to think of us as the butt of jokes or "traps," they are part of the problem, even if they're not actively bashing us or saying nasty things to our faces.

And to make a post on a trans forum concerning cis-hate seems a bit backhanded. I have never seen any form of cis hate on this forum. Thus, the only purpose for the post I can assume is that some onus for ending cis hate falls on us. This is a BS double-standard. German people are not expected to apologize for the Nazis. Podunk towns are not expected to apologize for the klan. Bearded math professors are not expected to apologize for the unibomber. Catholics aren't expected to apologize for child-raping priests or Jew-murdering inquisitors. Canadians are not expected to apologize for Justin Bieber. But some how, a board that I have seen zero cis hate on over the past five years should now concern itself with cis hate and hostility.

Adding a thicker layer of confusion, cis hate has no real harm to society. People actually died in all of my prior examples (nazis, the klan, unibomber, the catholic church, J-Biebs). Transsexuals do not gather into posses and kill cis people. It's the other way around. Cis hate is harmless and the only reason it gets any kind of attention is because it hurts the majority's feelings. In many ways, our existence hurts cis feelings (the 2005 New York case of Hispanic Aids forum v. Estate of Bruno is a good example, where defendants terminated the lease of plaintiffs for holding a trans-support group which made cis people uncomfortable. The court found for defendants while doing mental gymnastics to ignore a NY law providing equal protections to trans individuals). Just like how the civil rights movement was whitewashed, our narrative has to appeal to the majority and stroke their ego. That's why there are cis people who focus on this hypothetical threat or hostility to cis people, while glossing over the real threats and hostility we face every day. That's why men's rights activists and blaming rape victims are things: because the majority's right to be comfortable supersedes the minority's right to be equal.

In closing, I don't think that the onus for curing "cis-hate" or "die cis scum" or "hostility to cis people" should be put on the trans community, this forum, or even the people spreading cis hate. Instead, I think it should rightfully be put on the cis community for creating an world that hurts gender variant people to the point they harbored that hate. Just my opinion.

That is an AMAZINGLY insightful post. You have my vote for president.

The post wasn't directed to this forum or anyone here; it was just a rant based on some things I've seen, particularly on social networks like Facebook and Tumblr. Individuals who feel compelled to slander simply because of the treatment we get from the naive make the rest of us look bad. Trust me, I understand the psychology and history of civil rights, and the kind of rage it can build up inside you. I'd rather take a step back and assess the situation rationally and sensibly instead of getting riled up with contempt.

I'm just a person who happens to have a messy neurology, and because of that I end up, by default, in the transgender community, the autism community, the ADHD community, and quite possibly the XXY community. Instead of trying to fully identify with one or more of those, while putting up a wall against neurotypicals, I'd rather reach out and show others that it's really not as scary or unnatural as many of them might think. When you can shed some light on the issue like a calm and loving adult a lot of people will let their walls down. Sure, not everyone, but I have a lot of faith in people, and that's by experience.

The attitude and sense of self you have that is positive and peaceful will rub off on others...usually. :P If it doesn't, screw 'em.

Now, when it comes to equality issues like restrooms/loos, marriage, job security and so on, then definitely fight for it. Just don't turn your passion for equality into the same kind of aggression being used against you.

Quote from: Kayla on July 24, 2014, 09:11:43 PM
In reality, Martin Luther King was quite radical. But for Bayard Rustin and Fred Gray, he would be in the same league as the Nation of Islam advocating black people to carry guns.

I've done a lot of reading about Martin Luther King from both positive and negative sources, and i have never seen any indication of this.  I would be interested in knowing where you gained this impression.

As for him wanting to agitate white people.  Certainly.  He wanted to display the true colors and heart of his enemy, and bigots played right into his hands.  In all reality though, they did a lot of very benign, everyday things, that were only provocative to the people who hated them.  It wasn't that provocative to the rest of society.

Delete twitter

Quote from: LeftistLeslie on July 30, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
Delete twitter

LOL, yes!

I never understood the appeal of twitter.  It's such a crappy site.  I'm not even talking about the community for once, it's the way the site is set up that irritates me.

Quote from: OreSama on July 30, 2014, 07:59:51 PM
I never understood the appeal of twitter.  It's such a crappy site.  I'm not even talking about the community for once, it's the way the site is set up that irritates me.

I recently set up an account just to talk to my niece. She recently came out at nearly 15 as gay, and doesn't have a whole lot of support. I still haven't talked to her, though. I think she might be afraid of me knowing, even though she should know better. She's a special kiddo. I really wish she'd reach out.

Quote from: sororcaeli on July 30, 2014, 08:05:05 PM
I recently set up an account just to talk to my niece. She recently came out at nearly 15 as gay, and doesn't have a whole lot of support. I still haven't talked to her, though. I think she might be afraid of me knowing, even though she should know better. She's a special kiddo. I really wish she'd reach out.

Yeah, I totally understand that.  The only reason I use social media at all is to keep in contact with friends and family back home.

I am in a long-term loving relationship with a bisexual cis-male and I can't fathom cis-hate.

Quote from: Rose City Rose on August 22, 2014, 09:07:04 PM
I am in a long-term loving relationship with a bisexual cis-male and I can't fathom cis-hate.

I think the people who have that attitude tend to be teenagers and into the 20s. Younger generations love to be "social justice warriors", except they're operating primarily on angst. People say punk is dead. Nah, it just keeps mutating, and infecting new carriers. I have my own rebel yell, except it's sonic. You can't hear it, but it'll break through the thickest of skin. :P

I don't know if this means anything, but I think that most people today, CIS mostly because they are the majority, are just too self absorbed, or lazy to educate themselves and learn how to respectably treat Trans people, or any other groups for that matter... I mean, most people today can't even tell you who the vice president is, or where a particular country is on a globe, they'd much rather be watching American Idol or playing video games (Which are great entertainment, but...). The only way they seem to sit up and take note is to watch a Laverne Cox interview, or Listen to Andreja Pejic (who I love<3) come out publicly on Entertainment tonight and talk about her SRS.. It's just such a long hard job to educate people, but that seems like the biggest problem we face today..?
I will try so hard here to be an example of how CIS people should act, maybe I will give a few faith that you can be accepted, supported and loved..? <3

Quote from: Mark3 on August 22, 2014, 11:09:23 PM
I don't know if this means anything, but I think that most people today, CIS mostly because they are the majority, are just too self absorbed, or lazy to educate themselves and learn how to respectably treat Trans people, or any other groups for that matter... I mean, most people today can't even tell you who the vice president is, or where a particular country is on a globe, they'd much rather be watching American Idol or playing video games (Which are great entertainment, but...). The only way they seem to sit up and take note is to watch a Laverne Cox interview, or Listen to Andreja Pejic (who I love<3) come out publicly on Entertainment tonight and talk about her SRS.. It's just such a long hard job to educate people, but that seems like the biggest problem we face today..?

It's sad, but true. And Andreja Pejic is very symbol of the fallen angel who rebelled against the devil and said, "you have fun being a jerk. I'm going to be gorgeous and amazing and give humans a reason to pay the eff attention!" And lo, she did, and the people swooned.

QuoteI will try so hard here to be an example of how CIS people should act, maybe I will give a few faith that you can be accepted, supported and loved..? <3

I have faith already, Mark3. :)